Math Guy Learns the Straddle Front Lever With Fake Long Arms in 1 Day

[@mihkelhint]

Really cool concept, but had to pause mid video when you say you went from -5cm to +18cm ape. Sorry but no way did those hooks only increase your lever by 11.5cm per arm, I'd go double check my math there if I were you. From the middle of your wrist where the bar normaly would be into the middle of the new hook now it looks honestly like ~x2 of that.

[@GeekClimber]

You are right, I made a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out. For some reason I was thinking -5 + 23 = 18. It should be -5 + 23 + 23 = 41, sorry guys at 3:18 it should be +41 cm or +16 inch ape index, so it's not "a bit exaggerated", it's actually quite "exaggerated".

[@tommy10001]

No hate meant at all by this question , but - doesn’t that mean a 2-3 inch difference in ape index should not make much of a difference for front lever? If this massive ape index change only helped you a bit?

[@tommy10001]

Love your vids!!

[@cybermanne]

@@tommy10001 It helped him more than just a little bit though. What seems like a small improvement in the exercise would take a really long time of training to achieve.

[@mihkelhint]

​@@tommy10001 I think the main point was just proving the mathematical principle how longer lever makes FL easier and that being a fact. Not to say you don't have a point - it took an insane increase of the lever and ape to have a noticble improvement and not like all the guys went to perfect levers with flawless lines and pointed toes, right. And the main sport where this exercise historically has been always practiced is gymnastic ring routines and in that sport, all the top specialists are very short guys with very short ape indexes because the small advantages you'd get from an 'easy' position like FL is nothing compared to the disadvantages longer arms give you in all the different crosses and planches :D But yeah this also could be a very cool training tool to fill your gaps between different progressions, often a major struggle with FL training. Being similar to the tools with iron cross where you decrease the lever, but the opposite right :D

[@murghay01]

NOOOO. Keep the math and physics coming. Please! Great video, per usual.

[@godclimbers]

Agree

[@joaqu7002]

I need it. It would be a great way to find new training methods for skills with straight arms

[@heatzonegym]

The physics in this video is wrong, I debunked this in a video on my channel. He can front lever this year if he trains for it using my recommendations.

[@ihatechyna]

You are a breathe of fresh air in the calisthenics and fitness community. Hope to see this product come to the masses.

[@GeekClimber]

I hope more people can try the front lever hooks out too! It was quite magical to be able to get into the straddle position especially when I trained super hard for it for a few years before and failed.

[@francescograndicelli1963]

@@GeekClimber just use loop bands

[@EthanThomas33]

​@@GeekClimberwould you ever do a video on the physics of planche with arm length and torso/leg length?

[@uncopino]

breath*

[@cerial_enjoyer]

They're worthless, if geek can't do a full front lever even with inhuman arm length there's an issue somewhere else

[@GourmetBurrito]

I'm kind of sad that to hear that you got so much hate for that video. That video was one that I found super interesting and would love to see you make similar content.

[@GeekClimber]

Will be making more similar videos since I don't mind the hate anymore at this point in my KZbin journey!

[@cabbage4994]

@@GeekClimbergood! There’s always gonna be haters, but you’re just gotta take their hate in stride just like you did here! Keep up the great work!

[@JayJayvanriel]

​@@GeekClimberThe thing is, I believe the things you say You're an engineer and I can't deny the math. I'm also sure you bring fresh air to the community and you have really great strategies to train for a skill. The thing is that there are enough people who can do calisthenics skills, with short arms. Or with a higher body fat, or whatever. Myself included. So when you quit a skill because it's too difficult or too much work, it just sounds like you don't want to put in the work.

[@varinyampandey7111]

He shouldn't have gotten hate but fl with shorter arm isn't that hard too tbh . A little harder yes . People do Victorian , wide arm front lever , that's way harder. So short arm fl not that hard

[@Chris-hz8lj]

@@JayJayvanrielHe spent 390 days specifically on the one arm pull up. You just don’t get it that there exist physical limitations. Like what’s the point of him spending 3 years training just to get a shitty 4 second straddle front lever when he could use that time to get closer to a true blue planche.

[@OVP1175]

Ignore the hate like they ignore the science. You make this content because nobody else on KZbin does. I genuinely get excited when I get the notification you posted a new video.

[@GeekClimber]

Thanks a lot man! Comment like yours is what motivates me to keep on making new videos!

[@ah_yes_the_negotiator]

​@GeekClimber you deserve it.amazing videos, insirping and entertaining content.

[@CyroKarat]

This is pseudo-science, not science.

[@Trancefreak12]

@@CyroKarat Yep, a lot of the "haters" brought up legitimate points about the torque at the shoulders being constant regardless of the angle, and Geek Climber didn't address them. It's rather disappointing that most of the commenters here have fallen for the "I'm a math authority, so any counter-arguments are wrong" trap. Anyone can make mistakes and be shown to be wrong by someone else, regardless of either person's competency level. I watched the previous video and he simply hand-waves the "larger angle = easier" claim as true without explaining why.

[@gravityisfree]

@@GeekClimber I've always wanted to know more about the ideal physics / body proportions for the planche and maltese. Would love it if you dove deep on that! In my former life, I was a competitive gymnast and eventually learned from experience that I'd never achieve perfect position due to my body proportions (I trained for roughly 15 years).

[@Delta3angle]

You might be at a disadvantage having shorter arms and needing a greater amount of shoulder extension to do the front lever but it's far from impossible. The Victorian cross exists to demonstrate this fact. I think the hate you received comes from the fact that your previous videos come off as making excuses rather than just admitting that you aren't strong enough. You aren't strong enough, that's perfectly fine.

[@Delta3angle]

I should also add... You built a 9-in arm extender and it only bumped both of you up by one progression... You've literally disproved your argument that short arms are a *huge* disadvantage.

[@oryxthemad]

god bless frictitious climbing for being so patient 💀 also holy shit cameraman derek is fit af wtf I always thought it was some normal ol joe holding the camera

[@GeekClimber]

My guy Derek is definitely a beast! Also yes god bless Frictitious Climbing for being so patient 😆.

[@natevonhartleben2737]

Your first front lever video that showed the math was one of the coolest calisthenic videos I've ever seen. Please do more! Understanding what is more and less difficult for our bodies is a major part of calisthenics and climbing! Its not about finding excuses, its not like Ai Mori stopped climbing because she is so short, but she doesn't act like she can do every climb the same as everyone else, she just finds beta that works for her!

[@heatzonegym]

Sadly the math is wrong. I debunked this in a video on my channel. The actual math makes it more possible than people realize.

[@NorwegianKnifeDude]

I agree with the math, but you're still giving up too quickly on the normal front lever. There are many people who can even do a single armed front lever, so the normal one can be achieved by most men. Not easily though obviously. Also. There are many people who can hold their body level with pretty much no angle between their arms and body at all. So hahh!😁👍

[@dimzalo]

Leave maths and the talking. I'd be embarrassed if I couldn’t do a front lever if I was as short as you. Just train hard. There are no excuses

[@yojimbovolz]

As a physics professor, my mind is, unfortunately, NOT blown by how most people don't understand or believe basic physics. Great stuff, btw, keep it up.

[@calisthenicrunner7080]

Except he completely forgot the pressure on the fulcrum point 😂 in front lever the weakness is typically the core so when you make the center of gravity at a more center point it makes it easier ON THE CORE. But you have to use much more lat strength to compensate for that. If he was to do this with planche it would completely destroy his theory because shoulders are a much smaller weaker muscle group (specifically front delt)

[@GodisgudAQW]

I rewatched the original videos, and gotta say the reason why you got so much hate was because you specifically said that the front lever was "unattainable" for your body type, and subsequent videos seemed like an attempt to prove that. I don't think anyone is against having informational videos about what factors make certain moves easier or harder depending on body type, but what we don't like to see is a defeatist attitude being promoted. To your credit, though, since your initial videos, you showed one guy who had an even higher difficulty (smaller arm-torso angle) level than you and still managed to hold a solid front lever without being a mass monster, and that seemed to have opened you up a bit to the possibility of getting the front lever. But also, I feel like the fact that there are people who can hold the Victorian cross, which is basically a 0-angle front lever, is a common-sense way of seeing that having a smaller front lever angle isn't going to make it impossible for most people, just harder. Your message could easily spin into a positive one: if you are seeing slow progress with the front lever, it's not because you have bad strength genetics, just that the required strength for your body proportions may be higher than average.

[@CrackaLackaHacka]

No one is ignoring or hating on science and math. They take issue with a few of your ridiculous, unscientific claims: You equate the front lever to an unrealistic, highly improbable dream on the level of playing in the NBA. Using math, you illustrate that relatively short arms make the front lever more difficult, but based on that, you unscientifically jump to the conclusion that it's nearly impossible for you because you have relatively short arms. You claim that people telling you to just get stronger are wrong because you can one arm pull up, and therefore you are strong enough to front lever. However, being able to one arm pull up does not necessarily mean you are strong enough in all the right places to do the front lever. Where is the science behind this claim? You said, "I am also at the tail end of my athletic career, so I am not down to mess with my diet for the sake of putting on extra weight on my upper body for the front lever." What exactly are you implying here? What does this even mean? Is this science? You arrogantly disregarded the advice of coaches and experienced athletes, using math for a bait and switch because you are unable to cope with the fact that you are too weak to do the front lever. You have even admitted that you are not willing to put on more muscle for the goal of doing the front lever. News flash: your unwillingness to put on upper body lean mass (and therefore get stronger) is the real reason why you are finding it too difficult to front lever.

[@thierrygrassia2079]

Hi, i am a physics engineer and started muscle up training recently. I love ur aproach and if people dont understand that with Lagrange and Newton we can all explain , let think them 'Train hard'. But it s better to ' Train smart' . Your channel is awesome.

[@amosbatalden5871]

Muscle up is a very dynamic move so I think you don't even really have to train that much, I think it's mostly technique. It helped me a lot to be strong enough to do one with bad technique, but if you regularly try one with kipping and all that I think it doesn't even take that much strength. I could be wrong but I think you're not gonna get any insights with physics until you already understand the move well enough to do it. It's really complicated and this calisthenics physics is already an approximation that assumes robotic uniformity in the difficulty of force production. Like for example I can pull more than my body weight on one arm at every angle of arm extension, but I can't do a 1 arm pullup. These biomechanical systems are very complicated.

[@heatzonegym]

I mean, the physics of the skill are incorrect or at a minimum misleading. I debunked this in a video on my channel.

[@nicolostd9982]

I've been training for 10 years in many different environmnents, and engineers, mathematicians, physicists etc...were most of time people overthinking training and getting least results than the "ignorant kid training random". The reason is: scientists getting into fitness are mostly worried about doing something the most clever way with an impeccable approach, the issue with this is that scientific community still has huge questions on how strength and muscle growth works. Geek climber worries more about "what makes sense to him" rather than learning how to train front lever in order to achieve that goal. The only fact that people around the world performs victorian, maltese, wide planche and wide front lever proves that his whole theory doesnt make sense, and this very same video proves it if we gotta be honest, because the advantage those arms gave them was irrelevant, considering all their form was bad for very short holds.

[@modernbird]

Can you do the physics behind Planche video too? This video was too fun.

[@GeekClimber]

I will work on it if there's enough interest!

[@camcam983]

@@GeekClimber we are interested 😭

[@SpaceTime773]

Physics never lie :D

[@zNEKOMARUz]

Bermuda Triangle: "F*** physics."

[@SpaceTime773]

@@zNEKOMARUz no my friend, just no. Only conspiracy Theories.

[@betternow1703]

You could make a video showing the timing to get a full front lever with fake long arms, and regular full front lever. Never stop showing physics to people of calisthenics, that's all we need to improve calisthenics.

[@heatzonegym]

He won't be able to get it by shortening his arms over time since the physics is wrong and he won't hit the right muscles at a larger angle. I debunked this in a video on my channel.

[@alexoik.6155]

OBVIOUSLY full front lever is possible for him he is being a bit dramatic about it while he has no good false grip which provides better activation if you thinking of trying to bend the bar and also he just needs to work on hid middle back strength not only lats which can be done with advanced tuck front kever pull up /rows /Australian pull ups/cable rows and much more...what I want ro say is that ismts hard for everyone but not impossible i know guts 190cm that trained almost a decade for planche cause they had bad muscle implants and gens for it but time and dedication beats everything

[@Sebboebbo]

Da king is back baby he neva miss

[@TheAbd1233]

Hi, Geek Climbing. I am a robotics engineer and your videos are really cool. We have similar problems in robotics a lot where we have to estimate what a robot can do based on the strength of each joint. It's really cool to see similar things applied to these moves. Idk about anyone else but these videos are really unique and consider things from a sciencey view which I feel like a lot of the youtube channels in this area don't. I love to see analysis of other climbing or moves

[@heatzonegym]

The math and science of the skill Geek showed is very misleading though. I debunked these claims in a video on my channel .

[@cybermanne]

Not gonna lie, I kinda laughed at you calling people out for not understanding simple physics and then making two prototypes for the arm extensors that you should have realized was never gonna work due to simple physics. The final iteration was pretty dope though.

[@aisadal2521]

For a moment I thought this was a live adaptation of that one game, Getting Over It 😂

[@jonkrause6714]

So rad. I’ll take any leverage possible 😂 and I would definitely buy. Sorry you have to still endure the nonsense of haters and great for you to be above it. 🤙

[@nouseforaname6846]

It is a bit easier for a person with longer arms to do a front lever. It is definitely achievable with shorter arms provided your back is strong enough and you're also gripping the bar properly.

[@Chrizz117]

I have no doubt your math is correct. I think the reason people respond negatively is because it can come across as an excuse. Yes, the front lever is harder if you have shorter arms, but that does not mean you cannot achieve it. Sure, you may need to train for longer, you may even need to grow your lats, but it should be absolutely possible for you to achieve it. If there's anyone who has shown that a regular guy can achieve advanced skills it is you!

[@Daniel-vu4qu]

Bro will do anything instead of training lats to get bigger and stronger

[@r.i.pmaple8450]

Front lever is irrelevant, front lever combinations are more important. Shorter arms are almost always better in streetworkout because while the front lever itself may be a little harder with short arms, front lever pull ups and touch difficulty is mainly determined by the arms and the position of your centre of gravity. No matter how short your arms are, you can do the front lever as long as you aren’t pretty disadvantaged genetically in terms of strength or anatomy. Long arms may make front lever easier and respect for you still going after it after all this time

[@rasberrydefender1930]

Yeah, but you still can do it also without longer arms

[@mienvard]

This is awesome not just because you're providing concrete proof of a theory, but because you show your initial iteration failures and recognize why they didn't work (even though the reasons why were quite obvious it's not always easy to catch that when sketching out a concept). Prototyping and learning by doing in practice 👌

[@heatzonegym]

Unfortunately he got the theory wrong or at least it's very misleading. I debunked this in a video on my channel.

[@harlow1719]

you actually just need to train the right muscles

[@ZlotyChannel]

Of couse those people saying that ape index don't make a difference in front lever and planche difficulty are completely wrong, because of course: if your arms are shorter, your angle relative to your body needs to be smaller as well, thus increasing the difficulty of the exercise lot. But there are certainly people that can hold a maltese! a full maltese... and their arms are almost at the same angle as their body, and there are also people that do front lever pulls to their stomach and things like that. Now I don't blame you if you are not willing to train for the full planche or full front lever, I think you once said that you were satisfied with your fitness level and becoming a dad shifted your priorities (congrats btw), so probably you don't care about achieving the front lever / planche, and its totally fine since we train for our own goals! But I have to disagree with the idea that it would be impossible for someone to achieve them because of arms length and low upper body weight, since muscles have an incredible capacity to adapt, and the brain too

[@DJ-bo4pz]

Man this is what happens when you give a geek a task. We engineer the shit out of it. Keep it up buddy, the path of enlightenment is filled with stupid people throwing stones at you. But as we say in India, Satyamev jayate = "truth always wins", and scientific facts (especially those backed by equations) are the truth. Keep it up!

[@erock5722]

According to my math the assumption that the short angles are harder is wrong, but the arm extenders work so what have I gotten wrong? According to my math the load on the shoulders should be the same regardless of arm length(assuming same weight and distance from center of mass and arms are weightless). The math: The shoulder needs to apply torque equal to the sum of the forces acting on it. TorqueSholder = sum(torques). If we assume the arm is ridged and the body is ridged we get TorqueSholder=TorqueBody + TorqueHands. Torque=force*distance*sin(a) so TorqueBody=weight*CenterOfMassDistance*sin(90)=weight*CenterOfMassDistance. We have 90 degrees because the weight is pulling straight down and the body is horizontal. TorqueHands=HandForce*ArmLength*sin(x), where the hand force is just the normal force of the bar against our hands which keeps us from falling. We now just need to find x. X is the angle between the arms and the vertical line(because HandForce points upward). Let's say Y is the angle of the arm with respect to the body and this the horizontal line. Y = arccosine(CenterOfMassDistance/ArmLength). The arms, body and vertical line connecting the hands to Center of mass form a right triangle, so let's have angle Z be the angle between the arm and vertical line in the triangle, and we can say Z=90-Y. Z=X so we now have TorqueHands=HandForce*ArmLength*sin(90-Y). Using cos(x) = sin(90-x) we get TorqueHands=HandForce*ArmLength*cos(Y). Plug in Y we get TorqueHands=HandForce*ArmLength*cos(arccos(CenterOfMassDistance/ArmLength)). Cancel our cos and arccos we get TorqueHands=HandForce*ArmLength*CenterOfMassDistance/ArmLength=HandForce*CenterOfMassDistance and we see arm length cancels out. Plugging in weight for HandForce because they are equal and plugging into the TorqueSholder equations we get TorqueSholder=2*weight*centerOfMassDistance and we can see arm length does not affect the shoulder torque. According to my math the only things that affects how strong your shoulders need to be is your weight and center of mass distance, but you made the arm extenders and they worked so what am I missing? I watched "what happens to my front level, 2021 recap", the Dexa scan video, "Math guy learns weighted front lever", and this one and I couldn't find where you show the math for how angle affects difficulty, you just say a shorter angle is harder. Did I miss a video? Why is a shorter angle harder? What am I missing? because it obviously works. Also with regards to the 2021 recap video the pull down experiment doesn't take into account the angle the force is being applied. If you hold the bar horizontally the bar is pulling up (almost)vertically and thus the torque is weight*armLength*sin(90)=wight*armLength. But if you are holding the bar at a 30 degree angle from vertical the bar is still pulling up (almost) vertically so now the torque is weight*armLength*sin(30)=wight*armLength/2 which is why it's easier to pull more weight at a larger angle. Please explain why my math is wrong bc I don't see it and the experiment shows arm length does affect the difficulty. What equations did you use to show the shorter angle is harder?

[@socialdebt]

Have you seen KODINEG'S response to your vid? It's a very sensible and non hateful response which agrees with your logic but also accounts for the lever not being such a simple concept, explaining scapula shear and forced directional leverage. I personally have negative ape index and was able to front lever without training for it after climbing for a year (just tried it once lol). I'm stronger than avg but have worked up to mono front levers (extending my leverage arm) as well as elbow front levers (decreasing my leverage arm). I'm also disadvantaged due to my arm length to perform a planche but have trained up to low resistance straddle planche 5 second hold after 6 months of training. Thats including 70-80hr work weeks (finance) and more of my spare time directed to climbing rather than training. While I don't agree with silly, hateful comments (from simple minded ppl) I also don't agree with the message that a nonoptimal build means impossible, and do unfortunately agree with training harder. Humans are capable of amazing things that simple physics and math cannot always explain (willpower and determination). Anyway I hope this comes off sincere, as a fellow geeky climber I really enjoy your videos :)

[@keda_oo]

Then victorian isnt a thing?

[@abhijeetdhulekar9660]

Although you are way Of achieving front lever using physics is very smart, easy and cognative. However, engineers are capable to develop full metalic suite so any child can do front lever and HSPU etc with in min. 😅😅😅 the thigns is( Waterfalls wouldn't sound so melodious if there were no rocks in the way) Hardwork always pays off.

[@MrSpongex33]

This was a pretty cool concept! Ignore the haters that don't understand physics and just appreciate the skill it takes to do these movements with your body type!

[@Noam_.Menashe]

I believe that as a second year physics student I do understand physics. What I don't understand is why he quit so fast on front lever, when it's definitely possible, just harder.

[@nicolostd9982]

If your theories were true, then nobody would be able to perform a victorian on parallel bars, since it's no different from a front lever with 0° angle between arms and torso. It's POSSIBLE for you to achieve front lever, you simply don't know how to program it...

[@rickyrickstan563]

Hi

[@Ermude10]

I love that you did all this to prove it! A great way to understand things conceptually with physics phenomena is to really exaggerate the changes in your variables (quite often to infinity). In this case, if the arms were to be like 10m long, there would be practically no torque and therefore the lever would be very easy. Similarly with the common argument about shoulder-to-center-of-mass, if you shrink the body so that the shoulder and center of mass gets super small, there would also not be much torque.

[@heatzonegym]

He definitely went all out on this experiment. Unfortunately, the conclusion is misleading because he set the initial physics problem incorrectly. I debunked this, in a video on my channel.

[@andersjensen7348]

A part of me feels like its a bit pathetic to make an entire video showing why its difficult to full front lever when you are very short and thus genetically gifted in some ways lol. No flame, but as a 188 cm tall guy it bugs me a bit. I do agree though, he just needs to train more to be able to do it. Gain some more back muscle mass. Nice video though, explanining the body composition effect on calisthenics. Cheers

[@stevenvu1925]

I would stop focusing on mental gymnastics for excuses and rather on physical gymnastics....by extending your arms with something artificial that your muscles don't insert and extend to how it would in a real arm, there is not the same type of load that you would experience had your arms be that long in reality. You are taking all the mechanical benefits of longer arms, without dealing with its burdens. Imo, everyone who did a front lever in this video lacks retraction strength in the back as well as lower core strength to fully open the hips. Tbh there is not even really an improvement after using hooks. If you are doing dragon flags and you notice there is a hump starting at your hip flexors, ruining that perfect straight bodyline, it's an indicator that you are over-compressing abs, rather than flexing them at its most stretched state. If you don't address your lower core issue, doesn't matter how long your arms are. So by process of elimination, what's better to spend time strengthening? There is a reason these aren't used in gymnastics. Anyone can achieve front lever if trained properly imo. I'm sure tha'ts up for debate.

[@arionlucid3273]

I have to agree with the physics part, it’s really hard when you have shorter arms, but I have to disagree with you not being able to achieve it, I am a tall calisthenics athlete(1.87cm), and I have front lever touch, fl pull ups, victorian cross, planche and some laughable planche push ups. You can choose to give up or work around it, the real solution to your problem would be to put on some decent size on your upper body, the more weight you have there the better it is, it would make up for the shorter arms, also there is strength which if you have a little more muscle mass, in the future you would be able to generate more strength.

[@sourabhsingh4499]

Bro forgot the basic leverage and torque . if you think with 2 brain cells you will notice , he just added wrist support and made his front lever shorter . yes he proved himself wrong

[@johnwesely]

I don't think anyone was doubting the physics. I think people were dubious that your short arms preclude you from doing the front lever no matter how hard you train. Very cool idea to extend the arms though. I would love to try them out.

[@PoeticMachineDreams]

Yeah, this was the part that I remember rubbing me. Even aside from training harder, eating more food to build more back muscle was something that he said he was not willing to do, and he jumped right over that as a caveat before saying "it's impossible". Which is like telling someone it's impossible to bench two plates if they're starting at below 1. And never mentioned that them building muscle over time is an option.

[@tiagopiresabud4154]

I agree. The experiment showed it is easier to hold the front lever with longer arms. However, it doesn't mean it is impossible to do it with shorter arms... But anyway, it is a great and informative video. Thank you, Geek Climber, for posting it! I'm glad to hear you will keep on trainning front lever, no matter what! 💪💪

[@ragegaze3482]

@@PoeticMachineDreams Well depending on genetics it could very well be impossible for some.

[@BobBob-nw5pr]

But if it is true that with longer arms the front lever is easier then why is it that it is also easier when you use a false grip? Surely a false grip shortens the arm length?

[@YehorBoiar]

I guess it is because you get additional force from your forearms which eventually overpower those 1-2 cm differences between those 2 variations.

[@amirlaukholm]

i mean it pretty much basic understanding of biomechanics, the same way that FL pullups are harder for people with long arms. however I would say that planche with a similar concept is more even. simply due to the fact that there is more tension on the tendon and elbow. and longer muscles also mean that you would spend more time to building up your arms and tendons to preform without injury. would be cool to see you make a video about your thoughts on the manner

[@Lucas_SM_Gymnasthenics]

Give this "front lever hooks" to Onizuka_ns and he will be holding front lever forever.

[@daonguyen5443]

I want one. Take my money

[@jffrysith4365]

As much as I believe you, the actual tests really disagree. The two people you used for tests lasted shorter with the extension than without...

[@carsonrhoades4857]

That was fascinating. You have a gift mathematically and physically… but you are not mechanically minded at all. 😂 this video was awesome. Keep ‘em coming

[@ruchoporu]

Great device, I would use it as a addition to the bands training. Now, think about planche support ;)

[@yr9llous]

you care a math guy but messed up with first 2 versions of the hook 🤦‍♂️

[@rayvvenn]

and as a math guy you didnt realize that the first design wouldnt work?

[@jaykid6994]

Love the video. This seems to be a great progression step to the front lever ! I am definitely interested in buying one since I am on the straddle. I also have a hard time getting to the full front lever.

[@GeekClimber]

Never thought about using the front lever hooks as a potential progression step! That could be really interesting. We really need Frictitious Climbing to make the front lever hooks on sale haha.

[@user-xb4ig7un4e]

Those hooks makes little difference, the best progression is just getting overall stronger in the pulling musculature...

[@user-xb4ig7un4e]

@@GeekClimber Or just get stronger, that would make it easier. The strength comes from bigger muscles, not just neural adaptations.

[@ivan_sousa]

I saw girls doing front lever, they just trained harder....

[@Han-nk3io]

By Geek Climber logic nobody can achieve one arm front lever.

[@floatyseagull9472]

I wonder how Dallas Lauderdale would do with his +11 inch ape index😮

[@dr.kostakious3370]

When you’re a calisthenics athlete but you’re still an Asian 😂😂

[@OAmigodoTreino]

Some people take fitness as a religion and will maintain their beliefs no matter how much you explain to them that scientifically it is wrong. As a brazilian small fitness content creator, my most hated video is about somatotypes and how the entire theory behind it is busted since the beginning, but people still believe it here because some big influencers talk like your whole training and diet has to be based on your somatotype, to the point where the criticism towards me becomes "you haven't trained as hard as them, so they must know things you don't and that is why I believe them and not you with your scientific stuff". Awesome video by the way, been following you for years and you are a great inspiration!

[@jake_ofalltrades]

Way to prove all of those haters wrong! Hopefully the positive outweighs the negative. No matter what you do, there are always going to be unhappy people lol. Keep making the awesome content man! Hope to meet you again one day ❤

[@heatzonegym]

Unfortunately, he did get most of the physics wrong, and even managed to disprove his theory in this video. I debunked this in a video on my channel.

[@EMPANAO321]

I have long arms and fl is easy af for me, I want short arms tho bcs I wanna be huge af

[@j.l.5966]

I like how you call out those people who argue that they think they’re right when they’re clearly wrong 🤣

[@Jabonix10293845]

so happy to see you back. Forget the haters they are not worth your time. Keep up all the good stuff!!

[@jackbombay1423]

Don´t ever let people decide what you do. Keep doing these type of videos, very informative and i´m not even a calisthenic guy.

[@somafox5063]

Is really sad that you got all this hate for showing the true. I really liked the math of that video

[@tcholton]

Do this again but extend your legs length and add the relative weight to the end :)

[@marianojesus5137]

Man there are progressions that shorten or extend some body parts to make it easier or harder. Does the people who doesn't believe you even train?

[@nicksclafani8956]

I can’t believe you are being serious, this has to be a joke 😂

[@scoobtoober2975]

Do not even consider the "broke" world. Keep it coming. Keep smiling and trying. I'm going to practice it tonight

[@SuperSeamus]

Would you say longer arms would benefit a full planche ? I’ve been training planche for a while and I’ve heard many people say it’s the pushing equivalent of the front leaver. I’d love to know your opinion on the subject

[@tilmanrotationalinvariant2257]

Of course, the same principle applys. Human flag would be the opposite, because it favours short arms

[@MrRinseandrepeat]

This is super misleading. Just because you got the result, doesn't mean you understand the 'why'. While he's not wrong about the angle etc Different muscles are deployed depending on your arm length and the angle it creates , but even thats negligible depending on so many other factors (The weight of your lower to upper body being one). He's basically made a super strong wrist strap thats applying his own weight to gain a mechanical advantage and lock his wrist solidly in place and taken away a point in the arm that potentially bends. The very place he seems to be constantly failing at which he literally demonstrates and has to make his 3rd iteration. You would have pretty much the same results if you grabbed the bar and had a fixed point to rest your wrists/forearms on. The lengthening aparatus is just smoke and mirrors.

[@williamchamberlain2263]

Rotator cuff tho

[@MoonFidelity]

keep the math and physics coming! It's impossible to please everyone, and that shouldn't the goal anyway. Just focus on the community that is actually interested in that type of content! :)

[@olivierdlc1833]

Is it the same logic with planch ?

[@Ala_sw]

this is disrespectful to every calesthenics athlete

[@haraldbull1558]

Facts are the most hated thing in todays world.

[@pfpchad2747]

I've been trying to learn the front lever. I think that my muscular legs and thighs put me at a disadvantage but I will keep practicing.

[@heatzonegym]

I teach it using real math and science in a video on my channel. It just so happens to debunk Geek's theory in the process.

[@pfpchad2747]

@@heatzonegym Great video!

[@CyroKarat]

The issue is that your “math and physics” is not rigorous. In general as I have pointed out in other comments, your equations tend to oversimplify complex systems, so a lot of other important human body effects that would affect your conclusions are lost. This video tells me nothing useful because the arm extender had to be unrealistically long to notice any effect (as pointed out in other comments, you underestimated the ape index, and even with the underestimate you were at the upper limit of humans). If you had tested within actually practical level of arm variance I don’t know if the effect would be significant compared to all sorts of other differences in body types and strength and joint mechanics.

[@hicow6075]

You did not make the point you think you did. It's a spectrum of variability from short arms to longer. His '+18cm' arms were oncourse unrealistically long but it absolutely still proved the point it was supposed to.

[@CyroKarat]

The issue is that +18cm is unrealistic. It does not prove that the actual human differences (a couple cm) would be a significantly noticeable difference.

[@hicow6075]

@@CyroKarat You're not making the point you think you are. The only thing you're demonstrating here is your inability to comprehend what's being said and proven.

[@CyroKarat]

@@hicow6075 please explain instead of using ad hominem.

[@hicow6075]

@@CyroKarat It has been explained to you.

[@joel6376]

Would these be beneficial to train front lever with? Slowly shorten length over time rather than dropping knees etc.

[@lucadellasciucca967]

of course

[@Ex0dus111]

Buddy, nobody's hating on you because of math and physics. You got the hate you very much deserved for saying Front Lever is IMPOSSIBLE for your Body Type! And your "Evidence" was showing how much you could lat pull, and how it was impossible to do a front lever with that amount of Lat pull, forgetting that YOU CAN GET STRONGER AT LAT PULLING! Your final, ridiculous hypothesis was that full Front Lever was only achievable by athletes with "significantly developed Lower Traps", as it supposedly puts more bodyweight above the arms, and you showed a few examples. Again ignoring the PLETHORA of Calisthenic athletes that are skinny and can still do the front lever. Don't try to rewrite reality. But keep the vids coming, this was fun.

[@mintyburner6791]

Hi Geek Climber, I think one way to make your collaboration process more efficient with other builders is to provide them context with the root solution you are trying to fix, rather than communicating just the specific solutions you designed. For example, on your initial discussion with Garrett, instead of "I need a hook with a handle that i can grab onto", if you said "I need a contraption that will help me lengthen the lever arm when doing the front lever movement" , it could have encouraged discussions like 'how would you keep the lever arm straight between the contraption and the arms?' earlier on. This may have taken place behind the scenes, but I couldn't see it in the video. This class of problem is called the XY Problem. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem I enjoyed the video, appreciate your hard work!

[@toheli1071]

Yo wtf Camera man Derek such a cook

[@fabiorodrigues3x]

Keep the science and facts coming 😂

[@anonkhmer149]

We still got flat earth people bro, lol. Keep doing you!

[@chrismorales7516]

keep the math man, it makes you stand out

[@nameerhirschkind9764]

Absolutely love the math/physics takes on calisthenics and fitness more generally! Definitely have run into the same experience both in-person and online where people disbelieve physics and just say "be strong". Your content is super fun, interesting, edifying, and a breath of fresh air.

[@heatzonegym]

I think so too. Unfortunately the math and science he showed is wrong and gives people a vibe that short arms equals impossible Front Lever. I debunked this in a video on my channel.

[@fabled.]

Not only that but if you are less heavy in the lower body you also have an easier time, so long arms + tiny hips/legs = easy front lever.

[@KarribuWurst]

I am someone with similar body physic in weight, strength and height than Geek Climber (i don t know about the arm lenght). It always felt impossible for me to achieve the full front lever. I was stuck at three sec half lay front lever. I set my goal for 2023 to reach a 5 sec full front lever by the end of the year and changed my workout routine for my back completely. After two month i reached my goal already. Now after six month i can hold the full front lever for twenty sec. Geek Climber i want to encourage you to try out the front lever training routine made by a guy on youtube called Doctor Yaad. Maybe you can find new motivation with this training routine. I don t know if i have the same body physic disadvantage like you describe in your videos. I wanted to share my story how i reached the front lever which felt impossible not to long ago.

[@pedrol6193]

Dude just doesn't wanna train

[@MahdiDesigns]

Maybe you could work towards front lever using the hooks but with a realistic ape index, maybe +5 inches (to wingspan)?

[@milespaterson2532]

It’s a real bummer that people react so negatively to incorporating math into calisthenics. Yours is the only channel I know that does it and does it well. I really hope you can filter out the negative noise and keep making great videos like this one and it’s original

[@heatzonegym]

I agree! We need more math. Unfortunately he set the physics problem incorrectly. I debunked this in a video on my channel.

[@TacticalDimples]

It’s not the math that people are criticizing him for, it’s that he’s telling people it’s near impossible if you have his build which is not true. FL can take years to obtain-he tried to speedrun it and proceeded to make an excuse for why he can’t do it. This discourages his viewers from training for it and disrespects the people who actually put the effort into spending years of their life training for it. It also discredits everyone in gymnastics.

[@giacomofeltrin7271]

I'm a physics students and I also like calisthenics I love how you combine both things together, keep going

[@Spikos101]

In your physics classes do they teach you much about physics in sports?

[@heatzonegym]

Unfortunately though he got the physics aspect of the front lever wrong. I debunked this in a video on my channel.

[@jradd77]

I have long arms, but unfortunately my legs are much longer proportionally. That is what i think makes my lever progression difficult. It'd be interesting to see the math on that, i'm no math whizz.

[@Trancefreak12]

It's a bit disappointing how you handled your so-called "haters". A lot of them are not hating and bring up good points, especially @hotjohn4321 (top left at 0:09). Instead of responding to legitimate arguments against your claim that larger angles make the front lever easier, you blew them off by saying that they simply refuse to believe basic physics. "It's basic physics" is not an argument when you haven't explained why the angle matters and have simply hand-waved it away. It comes across as you going "I'm a math authority, and if you don't believe me, then you're wrong". That's particularly dangerous and frustrating because when you dismiss arguments by appealing to your math authority, you shut down conversation and encourage misinformation, because even competent people can be wrong. Be wary of having too much hubris to recognize that, even if you're right. Anyway, the argument is that regardless of the angle made by the arm and the body, the torque at the shoulders required to keep the body horizontal remains the same. Specifically, it is the (distance between the shoulders and the center of mass of the body sans arms) × (mass of body sans arms) × gravity. This IS basic physics as explained by the torque equation, torque = rF(sinθ). It would be very concerning if you don't address this argument by either giving an explanation for why it's wrong or admitting that you're wrong. This argument is why I can't take your claim that the front lever is easier with larger angles is the truth. It's not disbelieving basic physics; it's seeing that our knowledge of physics doesn't support what you say. What I could believe is that strength tends to decrease at the range of motion where the angle is small, but that remains a hypothesis.

[@flighted2513]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHeonqaef7arg9E Did you watch this video? The people telling you to get stronger were right. You have a strong upper back as climbers do but not mid back, which is what front lever except for the "genetically gifted" would recruit. Your contraption while it helps you is basically like converting an incline bench press to a regular bench press. Making the angle closer to 90. They are different exercises.

[@cafebrasileiro]

What? I subscribed to your channel BECAUSE of the math, and not despite of it. Damn... People are strange!

[@ekanshbhardwaj9581]

Don't worry we are with you.

[@axtro8001]

You just have a weak core

[@108mtsan]

Geek climber: There are calisthenic moves that are a lot more achievable for my body type that I will focus on instead Also Geek climber.....starts training planche

[@TKZprod]

Don't worry about haters. Most of us genuinely love your content! It is interesting, unique and pleasant to watch!