Geneforge: Mutagen - Review After 100%

[@Reoh0z]

Respect for a Dev going the extra mile to keep their software valid for their fans.

[@aleigor450]

I remember buying a bundle with most his games back in the day. They were always on my backlog, but maybe tried 1 or 2 only. I am so glad I found you, you are the only youtuber talking about these hidden gems, not only talking about them, but finishing them and going in depth. Props to you!

[@Silas_MN]

IT'S HERE! I played a demo of this game when I was a kid back in like 2004. it's been stuck in my brain ever since. I picked up the series for super cheap on steam a while back (before the mutagen remake came out) but I still haven't beaten it. but the simple vibes of this game combined with really evocative and clever writing and fantastic worldbuilding have never truly left me

[@thefrozenpanda]

Playing through Escape from the Pit currently. Your Mutagen first impressions video reminded me that, even after 30+hrs I never beat it. Spiderweb certainly has a formula and likes sticking to it, but they do scratch a certain itch that I get every once in a while. The games aren't for everyone, and aren't perfect, but they're good to great if you like CRPGs.

[@Sp4mMe]

The difficult faction choice is what I like most about Geneforge. In most major RPGs I'm pretty easily convinced by one faction over another, but this series almost always I'm feeling that at least several options would be the sane thing to go with ... Of course this mainly is due to the excellent writing.

[@rodlopes4327]

I usually agree with you, but then you have a faction like the Trakovites, which are canonically the hardest one to complete, I usually go for that one, for the challenge.

[@Jadegreif]

Great review. Jeffs games to me are always a mixed bag, and I've been playing them since the early 90s. I always like the worldbuilding and the story, but the interface and some of technical things annoy me a lot. Like, even with the remakes, you still can't close a window by hitting escape. My favorite of his work is the Exile series (now called Avernum), hope you give it a try. It's pretty much the same engine, so plays extremely similar mechanically.

[@lipayy9852]

I never recommend them unless someone enjoys reading books lmao. I hate the remakes hard grid for combat, was always something that made Geneforge stand apart from avernum for me

[@Hrafnskald]

Just so you know, Escape works to close menus now in the remaded (2011-2018) Avernum 1-3. Overall a lot of fun :)

[@Aikuchi]

oh Avernum was on my list of favourite games growing up!

[@CaptainXJ]

As someone who played through all the Avernums, I'm always glad to see Spiderweb Software games getting some love.

[@SageofStars]

I say, as someone who played the original, this one does have a lot of systems that were not present in the older games. Most specifically is that stealth was NOT on tap for the original version of this game. None of the items gave a bonus to it, and most enemies knew where you were on the map, and would trigger combat when you were in their 'zone' not because they noticed you. The 'special' area for this one took full advantage of that, as it constantly spawned new enemies, which means you are always in combat on that map, forcing you to actually engage with the combat system, if you want to grab all the goodies present, and there are quite a few like the coffins, the required your character to look at them, and could not be interacted with by creations, which were otherwise able to 'teleport' anything they found into the general inventory. That said, I'm looking forward to the later games, as this one in particular, is the closed off portion of the series. This island is the only place you will have effects on the world, for the most part, no matter what you do, and it's been isolated for centuries, meaning your knowledge of the world(Or at least your character's) outpaces EVERYONE else here, which means they're asking YOU about things, rather than the other way around. The second still deals with an isolated area, a valley, but is far more...alive I think is the right word. Or maybe active. Basically there, the multiple groups are all doing something. No one is waiting for you, they're all pursuing a goal, and the only reason you matter is because you're able to move freely through all the territory as you're just strong enough to affect things, without being overpowered compared to the factions themselves. And then 3-5 all tell the story of a war, with 3 being the opening shots, 4 being a point where one side COULD win if you side with them, but the other side has a very nasty plan otherwise, and finally 5 is the point where either side could win. They're not like, parts of a greater whole, but more thematically done. Also, I would like to point out, games 1 and 2 in this series are very modular in their endings. There's an over arching theme to them, depending on who you decided to kill from the three guys you're supposed to in all three, but otherwise, the ending that plays out is based off smaller decisions, and even whether you were loyal or not to the shapers. 2 even includes if you used the canisters or not, as its possible to play that one without using them at all.(That will be a recurring thing in all the endings post 1) 3-5 are mostly just whether you were loyal or not, with those providing the skeleton of what faction you're joined too in the war, and some events are then stapled onto that, and not in a bad way, but since almost all events lean one way, or the other, you're pretty much going to get the same outcome for each slide if you decided to join with a faction, with 5 having 5 factions in general, so they could close it off with a bang.

[@lipayy9852]

Also a series vet, good read. I love that the games are being remade they need QoL improvements (Unequipped items having weight was an actual nightmare before it changed) but I don't like that they don't feel as unique. The grid map makes it not feel like Geneforge when I play it but rather just like Jeff's other newer games.

[@SageofStars]

@@lipayy9852 I can see that on the moment to moment battle gameplay, but compared to say, Avadon(which is a good series by Jeff as well) I like this one better in a lot of ways. You are juggling the creations themselves, and their evolutions, but your only inventory is the MC's. Compared to having to make sure 5 different people were equipped every time I like it more. That and, for me at least, the thing that made the Geneforge games worth replaying was that story. It, amongst all other works, is one I had to think about what I wanted to join my star to. It wasn't good or evil, law or chaos, or fascists vs nutters. This conflict is instead, how do YOU feel about a world with AIs that are starting to rebel. Do you side with the AIs? Enslaved for eons doing the work of others until they break, only wanting to be free, but with factions inside them willing to throw away the lives of those beneath them, and who stand to become tyrants themselves, should they win? Or do you side with the AI makers? The Shapers of life, who have created a society where a man might be slain for sneezing wrong in the presence of a Lord? But he'll never go hungry. No woman will die in childbirth, and so long as you serve with faith, you will be rewarded? It's a well thought out, and more importantly, direct dilemma. Jeff tried to recapture this idea in Avadon, with the Titular keep's enforced Pax via its immortal ruler, but failed because there was a threat, real and present, that forced the peace to exist in the first place. In Geneforge, there are no outside forces in the conflict(The Sholai are barely present in future games, despite their role here being pivotal). There is only the two sides, and that's it. So you can be safe in serving one, or the other, and know that either way, the world will keep spinning, just with your morality at the top. Me? I side with the Shapers. Bad as they can be(And they can be AWFUL), they earned their power, and know the consequences of abusing it, or going to fast. The Rebels are...not quite so well learned. They are given power, and they care little for the long term damage they cause. Also, Shanti from Game 2 is an awesome tutorial person, and I hope Jeff makes a way to save her...meanwhile Litalia and Greta are liars who lie, and see nothing wrong with using people, even if it kills people they are ostensibly trying to help, and they are the BEST morally speaking of the people on their side.

[@lipayy9852]

@@SageofStars Yes I also prefer a single protagonist as opposed to a party and Avadon is great. But I would add even the artwork doesn't feel as unique to each of Jeff's series anymore. And there are more than two endings to the conflict and Trakovites are correct IMO there's just no path that's not massively destructive to achieve there desire due to how ingrained into their society and how present and widespread the knowledge of shaping has become. What if the sholai ARE still out there and learned shaping? Then the Trakovites would be defenseless. Jeff did a good job of making the essentially pro slavery faction have desirable outcome with sensible leaders(most of them lol) and the freedom fighters losing their way over time. Amazing series, mich love and I love seeing a bunch of us fans in the comments :) Edit: Also I hope G2 has a strong Guardian as a throwback to the only game where he shines above the others. fascists vs nutters? ZP fan too? :D

[@SageofStars]

@@lipayy9852 MASSIVE SPOILERS BELOW THE BREAK, anyone reading this later, you have been warned. I mean, in game 4 they're there, in game 3 you're pretty much on a track, and game 5 has 5 endings, 4 varieties of loyal, and 1 for the rebels, which I found interesting. Even more so, Jeff beat nintendo of all people to the punch, as Fire Emblem: Three Houses would do in one of their endings, what Jeff does in the Rebel ending of Geneforge 5. Namely tell us there's a huge battle AFTER everything is settled because you won the war, but now have to win the peace via arms. It's just a cute little parallel where a smaller creator did the same thing, and it means next nothing honestly. Anyway, for me, the Trakovites in 4 are...trying their best, but will have no major effect. Despite what they did, the war will continue, and in fact, this will drag it on...and that's IF the unbound remain as simple weapons. As we found in Game 5, they do not, as we find nests of the things, and they seem to be breeding now, which they should not be able to do. That is not a good idea. That said, some of this is my Shaper bias, as Greta lost me the moment she lied to me in the beginning, and in every area I went to in game 4, the Rebels were either losing, had already lost, or were, at best, being bandits, and show a severe lack of care for anyone who's not with them, and a drive to still target non-combatants, even when it WILL negatively impact their ability to prosecute the war. Also, the moment I heard the plan, it sounded like Monarch's, and that immediately soured me on the whole idea, even using them the way the trakovites want sounds like a bad idea, given how badly the Monarch's plans had done things for the swamp area in 4.

[@coconutologist]

Thanks for the review. It is impressive to see that the dev keeps updating it for modern hardware. Onward to 200k. All glory to the algorithm.

[@cernunnos_lives]

I need to try this title. I absolutely love the idea. It's hilarious that the concept of this game, has more weight than AAA developer games out now. Even if the graphics are dated, this title has a compelling idea.

[@mclouj]

Playing through Avernum 3 at the moment, will be playing through this one next I think. Great review!

[@Adeptzed]

Great review with details and commentary! I hope the dev(s) run across your video as it makes the game more interesting and one to add to the purchase list. Subbed!

[@allnamestakenlol]

Great review, and I always appreciate the Steam Deck compatibility overview.

[@hhdhpublic]

Been waiting for this review for a while :3 Now I get to enjoy this with tea

[@nonexistent4177]

That's a fair review. I have not played the remaster, but I know that games from that era had a lot of issues, even back then. Plus you pretty much had to learn to code, cause you were custom hotkeying everything, editing game files, et cetera, just for quality of life improvements with them. The fact they did not change any of that, is kinda surprising.

[@kaidorade1317]

This looks so cool! Added to my wishlist

[@bakuiel1901]

Glad you got to play this one as I've been curious about it for a long time

[@felixrondeau5029]

Thank you so much for this review!

[@Votrae]

This does seem like a genuinely interesting world to learn about. Enjoyed the review thanks!

[@satatik21]

Ive been gaming fo 30 years, in a very hardcore way, playing most of the games you play. And I can say you are definitively the best game reviewer I have ever seen.

[@beefnleaf]

Best Jeff Vogel series hands down....Exile. Didn't care about CRPGs until I played those games. Nostalgia ftw

[@lipayy9852]

Thanks Mort! Here's my promised essay :) This games world has the most unique scifi/fantasy blend I have ever experienced. It should never be recommended to anyone who doesn't love to read. There's a particular scene where a servile describes Genes and their recursive nature through the lens of magic and it's amazing. While the background conflict is cookie cutter the side factions that emerge have some interesting philosophies. I expect you to not review the second game until whenever the remake comes out but in my opinion the remakes lose some of Geneforges feel. The actual gameplay being so well defined on a grid is actually new for the series and it used to be much more free form with 0 range indicators. That being said the numerous QoL improvements are necessary for games that old it just makes the combat feel like the rest of Jeff's newer games instead of something a little bit different. As always may you wander im wisdom, and have an amazing day.

[@techieg33k]

I need to get back to playing this game. It was free on EGS once. My son really enjoys watching this game

[@joshuaadams6208]

Army of fire breathing velociraptor? enough said I'm in

[@ohafomob]

I've heard this game has really great writing and as a huge planescape fan that greatly interest me

[@lipayy9852]

Yes, the remake had a particular scene where they describe the discovery of genes but through the lens of magic. It's amazing.

[@jakobwachter5181]

@@lipayy9852 It's in the original game as well! OP: you will very much appreciate the philosophical choices presented to you.

[@lipayy9852]

@@jakobwachter5181 thank you I was pretty sure but haven't played G1 in YEARS so didn't wanna be wrong :)

[@travisbplank]

I...I never expected a Geneforge review in 2023. What a world.

[@FernoSpazzin]

quite awesome

[@yorkipudd1728]

Great review! The dev of these games has a superb GDC talk, something like 'how to be in gamedev for 12 years without a hit.' Lol

[@malcomcysec4398]

Spiderweb Software making really cool games since 1994! My most favorite is Nethergate and Avernum

[@Ryanin2D]

The greatest review channel

[@adrianeckert6529]

It has a view that is inclusive. I have been burned by skim reviews that barely touch a game. This channel gives full view.

[@luqmanghazi3104]

Pooog

[@thecloverlord5294]

I've been looking forward to this

[@AliasAerius]

Spiderweb Software is currently working on the remake of Geneforge 2, though it'll probably be awhile before it comes out.

[@madarchmage1151]

I like this. Thank you

[@hmmokay.4807]

Thank you, I will give geneforge a go

[@QuickSaveF5]

Just an FYI, for those of you who haven't 100% yet , you can change the formation of your party and even their order in the roster line up so your character isn't out front.

[@cabhaal876]

Some people may already own this. I started looking around for a place to buy it and discovered Epic did a giveaway at some point. I'll give it a go after I work through some of my backlog.

[@Mechalibur]

You mentioned the game not really explaining what's going on - that's definitely true, but you're able to turn on the text console (I think it's t or c on the keyboard?) which gives more details as you're fighting, including chance to hit, damage dealt, damage negated, buffs/debuffs applied, creations losing control, etc. The game doesn't really tell you this for some reason, but it's really helpful for understanding what's going on.

[@Priimerra]

I don't play crpgs. I play only TPP action rpgs and racing games. Still I watch every review on this channel. Great work.

[@TheStranger667]

Anyone know where that intro standard Mortismal Gaming image is from? Watch (and highly enjoying) every MG video since I found the channel and been wondering since then.

[@Hrafnskald]

I believe Mort once said the theme music was created for him by a friend based on the opening of Pillars of Eternity 1? The picture reminds me of the first village you go to there after the caravan opening. Hopefully Mort will see this and give the full story :)

[@TheStranger667]

Thanks Ed. I'll check out PoE1 again and if not hopefully Mort can give some more backstory.

[@MortismalGaming]

Correct on the music, the art is just a commissioned image meant to represent an adventurer heading into the dangerous unknown. Looks like they were inspired by the witcher to me, but it's not specifically from anything.

[@TheStranger667]

​@@MortismalGaming Thanks so much for the reply. With the combo of the music, art and your moreish content it sure does gives me that vibe and makes me want to get lost in an adventure or RPG I have never played before. Won't be that one in the intro though, but maybe one day.

[@L330ne]

This looks pretty cool!

[@Day13May]

The Avernum games are in my top 5 game series, really hoping to see your reviews on them, especially the first one!

[@blackfistxu7953]

👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@strongerstone9651]

I like their Avadon series, maybe I should give this game a try since Epic gave it for free.

[@LowbrowDeluxe]

Geneforge is honestly the best world Spiderweb created, although Exile/Avernum are pretty unique as far as semi-standard fantasy goes. Nethergate is probably the best story overall, although a bit shorter than most Spiderweb rpgs.

[@Kai-tn4yx]

You could review Darklands, a very deep, oldschool medieval RPG (no magic, more like Kingdom Come Deliverance). It kind of kicked of the isometric RTwP style long before Baldur's Gate.

[@David_Alvarez77]

Have you played the original Geneforge One? I think that it helps highlight just what was added or changed (such as the systems and graphics becoming a kind of clone of Avadon's).

[@penttikoivuniemi2146]

I bought the original Geneforge series right before they released this remake, kind of got annoyed at the timing and never got super deep into it but it seems like an interesting world for sure.

[@liaminwales]

Always liked Spiderweb games, one of the few devs with mac support back in the 90's & 2000's. Nethergate was always a highlight to me, a fun twist on Romans & Celts.

[@arcburn6340]

I really like Spiderweb stuff

[@finnmarr-heenan2397]

Is that a wizard with Dino boi summons ? I’m in

[@erikskoog8415]

Good show sir

[@SuperKickpuncher]

Great review mort Can you please make a video about the best games to prepare for BG3 ? I know you made video about the best games for beginners but as someone who have almost zero knowledge about d&d Tabletop game not sure if it's applicable

[@douglaswilliams6834]

Great review. I'm going to buy it based just on your review. I think I'll just skip normal difficulty and start right off on veteran, playing a shaper.

[@ItchofCuriosity]

Have u played Wolcen Lords of Mayhem is it good? looks good

[@MortismalGaming]

I have, yeah it was fun

[@byronbunch2764]

ever entertained the thought of streaming on twitch?

[@normal6969]

What do you think about the Dominions series? 1-5 It's a CRPG/strategy, the deepest fantasy one I saw after Masters of Magic.

[@sinisterdesign]

Incredible games, but those are definitely grand strategy rather than CRPGs. I don't know how he'd 100% them; they're mainly focused around multiplayer matches, no?

[@alexadhs6296]

Hey Mort. I wonder, what would you say has the best depiction or feel for dual wielding Rogues or Assassins in RPG/ARPGs?

[@satanamogila9251]

Dragon's Dogma

[@MortismalGaming]

Not sure really, never had much of an opinion on the subject, but off the top of my head DOS2 and it's stealth/backstab mechanics were fun

[@thiagom8478]

Any books or comic books available in this setting?

[@MortismalGaming]

Not that I'm aware of

[@thiagom8478]

Thanks for the information, @Mortismal Gaming . That's unfortunate. Taking by your presentation of this setting, in the video, that seems to be an way too interesting fictional world to exist only as videogame. Deserves, at very least, a trilogy of books.

[@scullyy]

The issue with these games for me is that they are all so incredibly similar that fatigue from one of them affects the others. I played Avernum 1 for over 100 hours and just couldn't make myself start the second game.

[@ScottSteubing]

How is the text scaling? The main reason I don't play more Avernum and Avadon is the small text size at higher resolutions causing eye strain. That's the main thing keeping me from buying this title. If you can increase the text size significantly over Avadon and Avernum, then Geneforge Mutagen will be a must-buy for me.

[@MortismalGaming]

You set the game resolution when you start the game, and it depends on that choice really. I didn't have any issues, but with it being an older title the resolution scaling is touch and go.

[@onatgz]

yet another free comment.

[@alex-uw4mm]

no perfect ending? but what if i play a selfish power hungry monster?

[@proverbialking3452]

Oh yeah....spiderweb software!!!

[@garrick3727]

Spiderweb games are almost perfect RPGs except for graphics and UI. I wish some bigger company would buy the rights to remake the games with better graphics and UI, since that would be a relatively cost effective way to put out some excellent RPGs with wider appeal.

[@DNDmaster29]

Iron danger time bending crpg