General Motors Was Foolish For Sabotaging This Car!

[@SuperTommyi]

Fiero, Firebird and Grand Prix?.......Yes 100 percent!

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Hellz yeah!

[@lordmaul3]

There's a custom car conversion company based in Tallahassee, Florida that does Pontiac Trans-Am conversions. They take the current Camaro and covert into a Trans-Am. They use a Firebird conversion kit that includes a Trans Am body kit. They're officially licensed to do this. That's probably the closest thing ever to bringing the Trans-Am. The name of the company is Trans Am Depot.

[@SuperTommyi]

@@lordmaul3 I keep hearing rumors about Buick making The T/A

[@michaelm3381]

Actually, the Firebird is returning in 2025. I saw the ad in my Car and Driver magazine several months ago!

[@lordmaul3]

@@SuperTommyi Buick making a Trans-Am sounds crazy. Most people associate Buick's with old people and retirees. It would make more sense to base the new Trans-Am on the current Camaro. The Trans-Am's and Camaro's of the past were based on the same GM F-Body platform. I think that would be an automotive L for GM if they tried that.

[@thebionicbassplayer]

In 1990, I worked at the ad agency that did The Pontiac "We Build Excitement" campaign. I asked an ad executive why the Fiero was canceled, and she claimed it was because after the initial engine fire debacle, insurance companies priced the insurance too high and made it unaffordable. You are spot on about the politics behind GM not wanting the car to outshine the Corvette. It's the same madness that got the Grand National killed.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Exactly. It’s a shame what happened with the Grand National. Thanks for watching.

[@SomethingAboutCars]

That 1990 concept is a superb-looking car! Imagine it with the DOHC 3.4 LQ1 and a 5-speed manual; that would've been awesome, if it wasn't for GM's ridiculous Corvette protectionism.

[@CJColvin]

They did the same thing to the Camaro as well as the WS6 Trans-AM, Monaro base GTO, the Solstice, and the Commodore base G8 and its all because of they're precious Corvette.

[@johnnymason2460]

Of course they did. GM is absolutely obsessed with keeping the Corvette as the absolute top model. They preferred the Corvette as the only two-seat sports car in the company. It prevented a lot of other models from succeeding.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

That would've been a phenomenal setup.

[@w41duvernay]

Correct, the 2.5 IRON PUKE engine was going to be replaced by the Quad 4. Which easily could have been replaced by a W41 Quad 4 version.

[@Slowgroovin]

The 90 Fiero was slated to have an aluminum V8. Despite being cancelled, much of it's body design carried over to the mid 90's Trans Am.

[@GreenHawkDrive]

You've been nailing it with these videos man, good stuff.

[@autochatter]

^ This statement is true ^

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Thanks for watching man! Glad you enjoy them.

[@williamblas1651]

Bring the Fiero back. I always wanted one.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Same.

[@RedneckSpaceman]

I'd like to get a restored Fiero GT! White with Black accents! (I had a 1982 Trans Am with that paint job). Problem is the cost and getting needed replacement parts.

[@obiwanjacobi76]

Great video! 14:34 The LS4 is a more common engine swap than the LS1. The 4 is the transverse FWD version.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Cool. Thanks for pointing that out.

[@houseofno]

The LS1 is a more common longitudinal rear drive application. The LS4 is a more compact front wheel drive application more ideally suited to front wheel drive applications. Unfortunately it also saddles you with a four speed automatic transmission as no manual transmissions exist from the factory for the LS4.

[@Simple_Jack82]

A later model with a 3800 sounds amazing. I think a v8 might be a bit heavy.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

True. The 3800 in the Fiero would be amazing!

[@OLDS98]

You did an excellent job. I liked how you discussed the humble beginnings and the build up and the end for Fiero. I liked how you covered what could have been and showed photos. There are videos on You Tube with images of what could have been( future Fiero models). I had heard about the 3800 V6 powered cars. They do have a strong following. A lot of people would like to see Pontiac return. One for the enthusiasts and two: GM needs more cars and sold through Buick GMC channel. Thank you.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I agree Pontiac is missed.

[@OLDS98]

@@MotorMaster_Stunticon It indeed is missed. Pontiac excitement.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Agreed man. Like I said, I wanna see the Grand Prix, Firebird and Fiero make a major comeback. Maybe the Bonneville too, but I think that would have to be something like a flagship EV.

[@OLDS98]

@@MotorMaster_Stunticon You have some great choices. You know they would not Pontiac a full line brand initially. I think your choices are great. I would suggest Firebird, Grand Prix, Grand Am/GTO, and Bonneville. You have small, medium and large and sporty. As far as the Bonneville it would need V6 and V8 engines. Hybrid would be the way to there. No full electrics at Pontiac. Chevrolet and Cadillac have that covered. They could all use the same rear drive platform and share that with Cadillac( CT5 and CT4).

[@doug6191]

11:10 - This version - with the softened edges, flying buttresses, and the revised taillights - looked fantastic. It didn't have the guts to back it up. The supercharged MR2 was a far better performer.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Agreed

[@michaelbullock7747]

Nice Video. I lived through the mid engine wars of the 80's. The departure of the venerable 914 left a vacuum the Fiat X19 could not begin to fill. Enter Pontiac and Toyota. All these cars suffered from less than optimal power plants. Something they copied from Fiat I suspect. I went 2nd Gen MR2 v6 swap. Highly recommend.

[@marklane870]

Last week i got lucky and won an auction for an 87 fiero se with only 10,580 miles, dmv confirmed it was actual mileage 👍 it's all mint condition crazy time capsule

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Man! That’s virtually a brand new car. Good for you!

[@marklane870]

Thanks 👍

[@rickwitt5735]

My father worked on the production line of the Fiero plant. He chose to retire after the end of that car's production run, because he didn't want to move the family. I didn't know it until years later, but he hated the Fiero. I'm fairly certain that he really hated the management for not giving the car a real power plant. When I was a teenager, my father would occasionally bring home a Fiero and would take me for rides. I loved it. I'd like to own an '88 at some point and I would definitely do a 3800 swap. Thanks for the great content.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

A 3800 swap in an ‘88 would be great. Thanks for the story and thanks for watching.

[@MyHumanWreckage]

I’m old enough to remember both cars in their day. Honestly, the MR2 was a far superior car in my opinion. As far as the Fiero goes, the only one that matters is the ‘88 GT. Great and well researched video.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Thanks. I’m glad you found value in this production.

[@crw3673]

I totally agree! That 88 GT is a looker and just started to get the suspension and power right. But in classic GM fashion, just as they get it right, the plug gets pulled!

[@Bigdog302V8]

The Fiero has a ton of potential! Put a Buick series II supercharged 3.8 liter engine in it and update the braking system and install a handling kit on it with the right wheels and tires on it, and have a real blast with it. This car also makes quite a sleeper too with that setup. It will really surprise the unsuspecting out there.

[@poltergeist3194]

Let’s be honest, they did bring it back. They just called it a Corvette.😂

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

😂 I think the C8 is a bit too large to be a proper Fiero!

[@poltergeist3194]

@@MotorMaster_Stunticon Corvette has been front engine rear wheel drive since birth. Fiero has the mid engine layout since birth. Corvette has grown in dimensions over the last half a century. Pretty sure if the Fiero was kept in production that long, it would look exactly like the C8.

[@Zneedsmore]

I worked at General Motors starting right out of college in 1988, and on the first day, one of the corporate executives I worked with struck up a conversation of how disappointed he was that GM had discontinued the Fiero. Pontiac was still a very strong brand at that time, and the Fiero indeed had its history of issues from the start in 1984, but there was a great deal of effort and money put throughout the car - in the suspension, brakes, overall quality, the V6 - to improve it - and ironically, in classic GM form, once they got everything 'right', they discontinued it! The reality was that the sales trends on the Fiero were just declining too fast, and the market was saturated with a lot of other great Japanese competition. If you are interested in getting a Fiero, I strongly recommend holding out for the 1988 model year.... for what it's worth, as a data analyst tracking warranty trends at the time, the Fiero's warranty rates were far more favorable on the 1988 model year tracking over a five year exposure compared to prior model years.

[@crw3673]

Classic General Motors. Just when they start to get a car right, the vehicle gets pulled from production. Cadillac Cimarron had a similar history.

[@Zneedsmore]

@ Yes, I would generally agree. Cadillac abandoned the Cimarron when the car did show some improvement… I think it’s J-body association hurt it from day one. On the other end of my employment at GM, when I finally decided to separate from the company in 1993, a lead manager was begging me to stay to help with a new Cadillac sports sedan that would compete with the then popular BMW 3-Series. I ultimately declined, but they later used an Opel format to build the Cadillac Catera. What I can attest to during my stay at GM was: very talented and enthused designers and engineers, yet with a fear-driven corporate culture and ultimately incompetent leadership. There were many cars done right, and engineers and their managers fought valiant fights to do the right thing, but there was so much posturing and egoism in leaders that just spoiled any constructive vibes in the company. I was not at all surprised at GM’s bankruptcy in the late 2000s… in fact, I was very surprised that it had not happened far sooner.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

I agree with you, GM had a real habit of dropping some of their best vehicles. Yeah, once they got it right, they discontinued it.

[@vauxpedia]

Another great video Rob, and another great GM missed opportunity.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Agreed about the missed opportunity. Thanks for tuning in.

[@autochatter]

Awesome vid Rob! Fiero is a fun one to chat about.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

I’m glad you enjoyed it!

[@haredr6511]

A friend in high school had a Fiero with a GM 5.0l engine swap and a bunch of performance mods. I believe everything needed for the swap was part of a kit. That car was insane. There was absolutely nothing that could keep up with it. It handled a bit strange though. Took some getting used to.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Sounds like a real beast!

[@Slowgroovin]

Based on what they had to work with, the Fiero was a very successful car. It used readily available on the shelf parts from other GM models, so repair costs were minimal. It's styling was beautiful, and it handled superb. Despite a few engine fire issues in 84, the cars were quickly recalled and were pretty reliable. At least the ones I owned were.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Indeed. Thanks for watching!

[@fgeiger41]

GM should NEVER have even been producing the Iron Duke in the 80s anyway! It was garbage. My mom had 6000 with it and there's NO WAY it should've been in a mid size car! Their management from the CEO's down were horrible. The Chevette's front suspending souk p shouldn't have been in production at the time! The Citation's front engine assembly was excusable but was outdated. Pontiac did a great job with what they were handcuffed too. A friend had an 86 GT when we were in college, thanks to a law suit and i was hopelessly smitten! Even with the old suspension it was super fun and the exhaust note was spot on like the Z24's! One day I'll have one. The 1990 Fiero GTA was 🔥🔥🔥🔥. It was designed and assembled at a secret facility here in Florida. Tampa.

[@KevinMiller-lh9ur]

Not enough r and d in engine developments and the epa rules didnt help. It was a tough time for all car makers.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Thanks for watching man. Yeah I agree the Iron Duke was a boat anchor. And I didn’t know about that car being produced in Tampa, that’s quite interesting to find out.

[@fgeiger41]

@MotorMaster_Stunticon Yeah. It was the replacement car. I think it was actually near the convention center. Still unbelievable that it was production ready, and they canceled the project. It was going to have the quad 4 and the 3.4.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

I heard someone say the second gen was supposed to get a V8, not sure how true that is..

[@XXx-ev8in]

Very good video well explained

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

I’m glad you enjoyed watching it!

[@glenwestlund4961]

My son drives one. He installed a High Pro. Overhead cam 4 cylinder. Then turbo charged it. He has a sleeper that surprised many BMW. When they run lites just to avoid the embarrassment of getting beat

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Sounds great!

[@DigbyOdel-et3xx]

I had an 85 GT black and silver one. Nice looking, decent performance with the 2.8 l v-6. Not a very reliable car. The handling was good, a little bit soft at high speeds and it was fun car that looked cool for its vintages. The silly up shift dash light was annoying, unless you drove like 70 y.o. grandmother. The 4 speed manual was ok . It's too bad the 5 speed manual didn't come from until its last year if I recall

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Cool. Thanks for sharing

[@flyski7473]

My first car. Miss it!

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

I hear ya!

[@vishyoutubevideos]

I thought it was a Ferrari when I first saw it as a kid. The name is very similar. Coicidence? I think not

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Yep, the name is similar

[@lordmaul3]

Speaking of the Pontiac Fiero. These are two rare Fiero based vehicles some never heard about or knew they ever existed. The first one is a Zimmer Quicksliver. It was a two-seat, mid-engine luxury car that was produced from 1986 to 1988. The other one was a Pontiac Mera. The Mera Was a Fiero Cosplaying as a Ferrari. The Ferrari 308 to be more specific. Starting with the 1987 model Pontiac dealerships offered an upgrade in the form of an "option" that changed the original body to a Pininfarina Ferrari 308-type body. The Mera body change was offered only on new Fiero's sold through Pontiac dealers. It was produced by Corporate Concepts based in Capac, Michigan. Only 247 Meras were ever made before production was halted after being sued by Ferrari. Corporate Concepts went out of business in 2004.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Thanks for sharing that tidbit

[@lordmaul3]

@@MotorMaster_Stunticon You're welcome.

[@markunderwood5704]

My older sister had an 1986 Pontiac Fiero as her first car. I got a chance to drive it a time or two. It was a great car! I got a 1986 Chrysler LeBaron GTS 2.2 turbo instead.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

That LeBaron GTS turbo must’ve been a blast to drive.

[@markunderwood5704]

@MotorMaster_Stunticon it was! I got it up to 120 mph. What's amazing is it has 135,000 miles on it when I got it. LOL I got it in 1993 when I turned 16. My sister is 4 years older.

[@reebokprincess1]

I have a 1987 fiero. Got it 6 years ago. Fully restored

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Sounds great

[@MarkRichards-kf6zz]

Shout out from H-Town nice commentary do the " Ford Probe next

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Yeah, I’ll talk about that car too at some point.

[@lordmaul3]

The Ford Probe was based on the Mazda MX-6. The Probe, MX-6, and the 626(Mazda Capella) were built on the same Mazda G Platform. Hard to believe Ford was going to discontinue the Mustang and replace it with the Probe.

[@spencerolson1532]

Awesome video rob

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Appreciate it!

[@Fokkerc1]

The fires were caused by wiring that was too close to the exhaust manifold. They installed insulation to avoid this. My 84 SE has this insulation.

[@josephmartin7381]

I've got an 88 with upgraded brakes and suspension, but the standout mod is the 5.3 LS4 and five speed. It's a wicked lil' pisser.😁

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

How easy was the LS4 swap?

[@josephmartin7381]

@MotorMaster_Stunticon it was pain, when I did it, there wasn't a lot of parts available that I like, it was also a Frankenstein of parts I used to mate the F23 transaxke to the 5.3.

[@smokinjoe781]

I was fortunate enough to do a bunch of work on the very first fiero sold in iowa.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Excellent to hear that!

[@crw3673]

The Pontiac Fiero demise was classic General Motors politics. 1)Rush too quickly into production. 2)Used regular parts bin parts, instead parts made for the car. 3)Was never suppose to rival or out shine the Corvette. 4) Just when Pontiac got the car right, pull production for the push to go front wheel drive. I said before and I'll say it again. If General Motors let each division compete with one another, we would had have better cars years ago! Let Chevrolet compete against Pontiac for performance cars. Let Buick push Cadillac to make more luxurious cars. GMC, Chevrolet and Hummer to make better trucks, SUVs and commercial trucks. Chevrolet and Geo to compete on economy cars. And all the money 💰 would be kept in house. Cause as long as you were buying a GM vehicle, all the divisions would benefit! 😉

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Thanks for pointing all of that out. I fully agree with you here!

[@pancudowny]

You nearly hit the reason why the Fiero was cancelled from the beginning: CAFE mandates. The same reason the Camaro & Firebird came with 4-cyl. engines for a few years. Once the mandates were temporarily frozen in '86, GM had no reason to continue with padding-out it's lineup so much with highly fuel efficient models that could be built in large numbers, so as to be sold at affordable prices. $8k for a Fiero? Try $5k for a Chevette in '87.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Thanks for pointing that out

[@VcArena]

I wonder if gm ever looks back and says, humm. Sticking a 350 in it wouldnt have been so bad

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

I wouldn’t doubt it!

[@crw3673]

That is some wishful thinking. If General Motors didn't have enough sense to put a 350 in a G body, they definitely not going to put it in a P body. If production had continued past 88, maybe the Oldsmobile Quad 4 would have been a nice candidate. But remember, nothing was to outshine the mighty Corvette! General Motors' worst decision.😢

[@crw3673]

​@MotorMaster_Stunticon Fiero take wheel to Fwd engine and transmission swaps. Any gm fwd transmission or engine can be physically swapped into a Fiero engine bay. From 4 cylinders to 8 cylinders. The front wheel drive LS4 and Northstar engines and transmission are easier swap upgrades, than taking a traditional small block V8 design for rear wheel drive.

[@talldude5841]

My youngest brother had one. I told him not to buy it, but he did. He had nothing but problems with it. Mostly electrical as most ot the buttons didnt work. He could hardly wait to sell it shortly after buying it and lost about 1 grand when he did. I still tease him about it. Haha.

[@michaelm3381]

These were cool cars. The only time I see one nowadays is at a car show.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Thanks for watching

[@tetchuma]

GM always releases crap, then once they perfect it… they cancel it.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Yep. Thanks for watching man

[@crw3673]

Spot on! Once perfected, pull from production. 😢

[@stevenwatson4526]

to bad that they did not offer the 3.8 na and supercharged version and dump the 4 cylinder.

[@michaelbullock7747]

A 3.4 quad cam from a Grand Prix GTP would have sat nicely in a Fiero.

[@michaelbullock7747]

Or a supercharged 3800

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

I think you're right! That would have been fantastic.

[@ivancliff2514]

I’d love to rebadge a C8 with all the Pontiac Decals. That or the Fiero could have also been based on the same platform.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

That would be neat

[@ivancliff2514]

@ Yeah man. Think if they dropped the turbo 6 from the Caddy CT4-V into the Pontiac so as not to step on the vette’s toes? Or manybe even use the 6.2 for the Pontiac and have the 5.5 NA as the lowest tier corvette with the TT 5.5 as the halo. Could been cool

[@jorgegomez4608]

GM never wanted Pontiac to out shine Chevrolet and that’s a fact

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Yep, you’re right

[@Jordi7174]

And the EV1 too! Watch Who Killed the Electric Car

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Good point!

[@2the4best]

No where near the Price Category of the Corvette. Mazda Miata and the Toyota would have been in that class...and look how well they sold. With T-Top and a 3Liter Turbo options available in 1984 it would have been quite the winner for GM.

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

I hear you on the 3-liter turbo, that would have been awesome!

[@doug6191]

Another of GM's examples where they refused to make a good car out of a good idea. 💩 engines and 💩 quality

[@spencerolson1532]

General motors now a days couldn't make a reliable vehicle to save there own life

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Yep

[@AspirantVeeVee]

corpo politics at its finest

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Yep. Thanks for watching!

[@AspirantVeeVee]

@@MotorMaster_Stunticon there is a guy down the street that has one of these with a lowered roof and a supercharged v6 and it is really fast and kool

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Yeah, if done correctly, they can definitely be fast and look really cool too.