Why the HUMANS in AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER are RIGHT (Once Again)

[@LordCurt]

I gotta say, it is difficult to disagree.

[@bigmouthstrikesagain4056]

Yep

[@One.Zero.One101]

White People: "It's okay to rape and pillage the natives and steal their resources to fill our own coffers. I see nothing wrong with it."

[@daleverse2012]

So you would be OK if aliens came to take our right, because they killed theirs

[@CHIRONandADAM]

That's because you completely missed the movies message. Everyone who thinks "the humans aren't bad" are lost. The humans are out of harmony with natural law and that's why they killed their planet in the first place. Morons. The allegory is that too many of us are living out of harmony with natural law.

[@ThrillzTheGreatest]

It's impossible to disagree

[@thestudentofficial5483]

You know James messed up when the audience started rooting for humans too hard so he changed the lore of RDA from "basically UN failed so it's up to us to save humanity from itself" to generic cyberpunk megacorp once again.

[@CorporalAugust]

James is a traitor to Humanity.

[@rianmacdonald9454]

Didn't mess up at all - it was done - a very simple way to test humanity, and you all failed. How would you feel if it was the other way around - aliens harvesting humans brains to make a drug so they lived forever - would you be saying the same or calling them bad?

[@_Its_Ya_Boy]

Wait, he did that? I thought the lore didn’t change? I’m too lazy to look it up, but it sounds like something a lazy writer trying to prove a point would do.

[@angry_eck]

​@@_Its_Ya_Boylike world was on the brink they literally made it live decades longer than it should have

[@_Its_Ya_Boy]

@@angry_eck Money grab?

[@tardiscommand1812]

Anyone else find that they could have just bombed everything from Orbit? Like Sigourney said once.

[@EnclaveSOC-102]

RDA isn't allowed to have nukes due to international laws. EDIT: also I know that Tardis didn't say nukes, but orbital bombardments to force a planet's indigenous population to capitulate would have made the RDA look worse.

[@juimymary9951]

because...if they did they'd have caused another world to become uninhabitable and thus lose the only hope they'll ever have to save their species (aside from terraforming earth which is pathethically easy compared to adapting to another planet)?

[@spc1481]

Would you turn an area into radioactive wasteland if you wanted to build a house in there, or sow the fields or something? I don't think so.

[@t.jackson4393]

3 words "Kinetic Orbital Strike" no nukes just nice clean gravity.

[@schnebot]

@@EnclaveSOC-102 they couldve used clean "landings" here and there. that clears vast areas of forest like we saw in the beginning of the movie.

[@yukipaw1702]

A problem I see with the miracle serum is that humans didn't bother to think about domesticating or at least think of a way to develop a sustainable harvest operation. In history when we need resources from an animal carcass, we literally put them in cages, study them, then breed and raise more of them.

[@diooverheaven6561]

Considering modern technology by the point of avatar movies we would be able to make just the organ alone. Humanity in avatar is just dumb

[@tad4364]

@@diooverheaven6561 but its also the way majority of humans actually think in real life. These comments should be able to tell you that.

[@denkerbosu3551]

@@tad4364 The ones over there shouldn't be "Majority of humans" but rather people that carefully think how best to save themselves.

[@druggeddragon420]

that’s because you don’t make profit from a miracle serum. you’re thinking of it as if it’s a chicken egg but in reality it’s more like a diamond back in the day only rich people can afford it as a status symbol and the government using the profits to fund other resource extraction projects would like it to stay that way.

[@fredthepeacelily]

Or clone the specific gland. Cloning is very advanced in that universe. Or you could just artificially synthesize that hormone like we do with thyroid hormone or testosterone or any number of other hormones. Or you could genetically engineer a mouse or rabbit to produce it. We can and already do this, with our current tech. Its dumb that in the avatar future we've somehow forgotten how to do basic genetic engineering.

[@Cmmdre977]

These are all legitimate questions and arguments you’ve made, but the most obvious problem with the avatar movies is that NONE of them are explored. What I, and probably a lot of other people hate about those movies is that the humans are absolutely and thoroughly evil, and the Navi are absolutely and thoroughly pure and good, despite all these legitimate arguments for the humans

[@thetruth4116]

The humans killed their own planet and learned in the process thus the Navi are well within their rights to not want them on Pandora.

[@Cmmdre977]

@@thetruth4116 yeah but they didn’t really know that though. I can see why they want the humans off their planet, with the terraforming and such. I’m just saying I wish the director and writers made SOME kind of effort to explore the very legitimate reasons the humans have for wanting to be here

[@rianmacdonald9454]

''despite all these legitimate arguments for the humans'' - there is not one single legitimate argument for humanity in these films at all.

[@BeastMaster46]

@@rianmacdonald9454 Yes there is. For example, Pandorium (I'm not calling it Unobtanium, it's a stupid name) is a room temperature superconductor which in real-world physics has numerous amounts of practical applications that could be used to uplift humanity from its current predicament. If humanity could harvest this resource en masse, it could lead to the development of Cold Fusion Reactors, maglev trains, improved computational power, and other wonderous technological breakthroughs that could advance humanity into a higher tier civilization.

[@gusmc2220]

​@@rianmacdonald9454exactly, because the creators WANT the human race to go extinct. When you accept that as a valid premise the whole "humans are the ultimate bad guys" trope falls into place. Imo it speaks more to what elites actually believe and are trying to do in real life than anything else. And when you realize that there are groups of powerful people who believe it's their responsibility to usher in the end of the human race suddenly some of the insanity going on around the world makes perfect sense. There are people who place so little value on human life that they sincerely believe the lives of witless animals should supercede the lives of humans.

[@dolphinofthedeep4292]

This may just be my misunderstanding, but if humans can clone specific tissues (even alien ones) and they can gene modify it to be more compatible to humans (ie: the human-na’vi hybrid clones) couldn’t they in theory collect brain tissue from that specific region and clone it in perpetuity. which would possibly only require the death of only one of those space whales

[@krzosu]

in theory yes - but it would cost probably a lot - so it might be cheaper just to go and whack some critters - and since there is plenty of them just swimming around this might be even applied up to large scale for relatively minimal costs - and that is most likely what we saw in the second film.

[@monkeycaboose6872]

This would impact their profit margin. Humanity is supported by profit, therefore profit > xeno "life"

[@macrosense]

It is a James Cameron film. It does not have to make sense.

[@jaybanks3463]

@@macrosense naw it’s a sci fi film so there will always be something to pick at.

[@monkeycaboose6872]

@@macrosense Because corporate-influenced government decisions always make sense and are always the most effective solution to problems in real life right?

[@primmakinsofis614]

The biggest problem with the humans in Avatar is that while they have apparently mastered the incredibly difficult technological achievement of interstellar travel, somehow they never figured out how to build space habitats like O'Neill cylinders. And the latter is far easier to achieve technologically than the former.

[@calluxdoaron1903]

Interstellar travel is not that actually difficult, it's just time consuming. O'Neill cylinders on the other hand are resource sinks that serve only tree purposes - they settle people in space, they allow to build transport right in space, they allow to process stuff in microgravity. You have to construct more complex logistical machine to supply habitats than build an outpost - supply it with mineral rich stones to refurbish artificial soil, supply with water for electrolys into breathable air. One supply shortage in a year or two and you have massive defficency. It's far easier to use natural planetary surface of someone's else planet, terraform it over time to make Earth 2: Electric boogaloo. You can grow plants, fish, recycle planetary atmosphere for breathable air, extract resources just on site with far less time being consumed on logistics.

[@jpatricklloyd7360]

Problem, you need Earth which can't spare anything to build a new one in space when it is already on life support. It needs another Earth to help it or humanity needs a new earth.

[@JoseSanchez-fk9dg]

@@calluxdoaron1903you do realize if a species has the resources time and knowledge to terraform a planet they would have an easier time fixing their planet than building a new one. It like the terraform Mars debate versus save the Earth. The Earth is able to support life and can be easily fix for cheaper and in a shorter amount of time. It just takes minor personal sacrifice from corporations and the top 1%. Terraforming Mars is a massive resource sink that will waste centuries of work and require great personal sacrifice form the bottom 99% who will never get to see the fruit of their labors and be continued to be exploited by the top 1% who merely funded the stupid project but didn’t contribute the physical labor required to terraform a planet.

[@anvos658]

O'Neil cylinders are massive resource hogs to build from scratch.

[@theofficerfactory2625]

O'Neill cylinders in gundam are constructed from resources mined form the moon and asteroids. Redirect asteroids to a near earth orbit and then mine those for gas, water and minerals.

[@DouglasZ828]

For the grace of the Empereor the best gift given to a Xenos is the release from the sin of living.

[@overlordminigun6346]

By his grace and guided by his light, we shall purge the Xenos from his holy Imperium brother!

[@kingandros4819]

The codex astartes supports this. For our God Emperor!

[@sauron6064]

Purge the emperor.

[@kingandros4819]

@@sauron6064 Purge this heretic brothers!

[@PrinceOfChange]

Suffer not the alien, the mutant, the heretic to live. Contempt is our armor, disgust is our shield, and hate is our sword.

[@MurasakiTsukimaru]

Regardless of who's right and wrong between humanity and na'avi: Jake was wrong. Dude had a job to negotiate with the na'avi and three months to do it. In that time, he made exactly zero attempts and even when he was warned that the construction vehicles would arrive THE FOLLOWING MORNING, he decided to go fuck the chieftain's daughter instead. Alternately, he never once warned the na'avi that the humans were coming and would be there in roughly 90 days. They believed him to be a traitor because he didn't say a thing until the humans were already there.

[@VolcanoQueen]

Jake's job was to learn about the Navi and find our what they want so the humans can compromise on that, he found out they didn't want anything from us so he couldn't negotiate, he literally says this in the movie, do you guys just not watch it?

[@andresmcguire-buckley1659]

​​​@@VolcanoQueendoesn't change the fact he didn't tell the navi anything in the last few days or a week or two before the rda came and started tearing trees up. My personal thoughts, he was being a selfish prick who only wanted to do what he wanted to do, consequences to everyone and everything else be damned. I think that because, he obviously wasn't happy on earth, and he knew that humanity could wipe the floor with the navi. So, I think he just decided to live out, what might have been for him, his fantasy dream life come true and milk that experience for as long as he could. He screwed over both humanity and navi for his own sad feelings.(🥺aww.... poor sully, yeah right) The only redeeming quality to jake sully, is his love for his family. Although, with how I see it, he built the foundation of his family upon thousands of the bodies of humans, navi, and MANY local faunas of pandora. I do not see mr. sully here as anything else, but a villain.

[@andresmcguire-buckley1659]

​​​@@VolcanoQueen almost forgot to mention, he's a soldier and not a dumb one, except when it comes to certain types of morality. So he would have understood that the navi would have suffered casualties in the battle for pandora. Instead of leaving them alone, he went and rallied not just the navi that he was tasked with getting close to, but many other navi clans. He was willing and actively brought in a bunch of bystanding clans and they got shredded by humanity's weaponry. If it wasn't for eywa, the navi would have lost. Even then, humanity showed in the second movie they can wipe out all life on pandora. But they won't scorch the world, because Cameron changed up a bunch of elements to the story and ended up making lots of contradictions. One of which, if there were avatar clones of the mercs, then whats the reason for sending them from earth in the first place, or any scientists after the base was constructed and cloning tubes were made. Jake's twin brother wouldn't have had to go, sense all they needed to do was have a memory chip copy and paste all of his memories onto it, and make some avatars from that. Thus, eliminating the reason for jake sully to even go to pandora in the first place, sense he only went to pandora because some mugger shot and killed his brother.

[@VolcanoQueen]

@@andresmcguire-buckley1659 well to be fair, they probably didn't copy jakes brothers memories because bringing jake was cheaper, secondly he probably died before they could even even copied his brain to begin with

[@VolcanoQueen]

@@andresmcguire-buckley1659 him bringing it up wouldn't have chanced the outcome, and what's wrong with being selfish here? Earth is a hell hole in his universe, you give a man a paradise and he'll fight tooth and nail for it, and it's even worse when the US is basically conducting a Columbus 2.0, not everyone wants to do that to others

[@weldonwin]

There is an issue here. Wouldn't the widespread use of an anti-aging drug that extends human lifespans, just massively accelerate the already dire overpopulation problem? I mean, if it does indeed extend human lifespans and cures illness, then the human death rate VS Birth rate is only going to skew even further

[@mattstakeontheancients7594]

Damn was just thinking the same thing when he mentioned the Amrita.

[@casbot71]

It's very expensive, so only the very wealthy will get it, which incedently will make everyone more money hungry as if you get rich enough _you can buy more life._ So Earth will become even more dog eat dog. But the real effects will be that the top 0.1% (depending on the price break) will never age out. So that means no turnover of the leadership. Oligarchs, dictators, and even the A-list celebrities never get old. Thus, an immortal ruling class will develop. That's going to be a issue.

[@soul1d]

In video game terms the options are give to the people or give to Elites in terms of specialists, officers, etc yes also the super rich people too but any way. Leader lifespan vs population buff.

[@Plasmacore_V]

Not if it causes sterility. Just ask the Acshens.

[@raistlarn]

Doubt it would be widespread. Something that valuable would be in the hands of the elite of the elite only.

[@리정우-w3g]

‘It’s right to pity them mark. Wrong to value them over your own kind!‘

[@retro6294]

@리정우-w3g Who says Na'vi Sympathizers value them over humanity? I think it is wrong to take their world away from them. Plus, the majority of the human characters give me the impression that they're not to be trusted.

[@1977Yakko]

As for the pacifism or belligerence of the Na'vi, keep in mind, they had a warrior culture before the humans arrived. Who did they war against? It's the same with the native tribes here on Earth. They waged war against each other. They slaughtered and enslaved each other. They were humans with all the same negative traits as any European Conquistador. Their downfall (in part) was due to being technologically stagnant and were a divided, tribal people. The Avatar movies promote the "noble savage" trope to the maximum IMO.

[@avronthecorrupted2781]

Where did you get Warrior culture from? Before the RDA’s arrival the Na’vi were (and still are) a people deeply rooted in the nature of life, they willingly choose not to advance because it’s more sustainable for the planet. They rarely warred with each other either according to the lore (at least from the tribes we know of) and slavery has never been mentioned. You’re making a lot of assumptions in this one comment, the most criminal of them is comparing the nature of the Na’vi to the nature of us hairless primates (who are related to chimps and you can see how deranged they are a lot of the time).

[@Lesu2003]

​@@avronthecorrupted2781nah most of that sustainability comes from the control that the planet has from them

[@avronthecorrupted2781]

@@Lesu2003 um no it doesn’t, it comes from their culture that’s built around a deity. It has never been stated that Eywa is actively controlling anything. You’re making baseless assumptions here.

[@lukaskloiber4248]

@@avronthecorrupted2781 If you look at the first movie it's very much stated that eiwa controls the minds of all living beings on the planet if it wants to. And sometimes it interferes more ore less

[@mattshelton7423]

The environment. Have you seen the animals they live around without formal housing or cities? Imagine living in the Amazon with bows and spears, I bet you’d go warrior survivor mode very quickly.

[@Mate397]

I think you give Cameron way too much credit about that conflict, it is beyond obvious the movie makes humanity the bad guys and the Navi the flawless good guys in the story... even though the movie stated that humanity offered everything possible for exchange of the resource they'd need and the Navi refused it all.

[@jamesleblanc6948]

the resource is the brains of their planet, literally. I know it's been a decade, but go watch the first movie, specifically the third act.

[@Renault07]

​@@jamesleblanc6948aight, then i guess the planet is getting a lobotomy then. No apologies

[@chaseviking5096]

Just because the Navi refused to give the resources the humans wanted doesn't make humanity right in taking it by force. The Navi never agreed to give up what the humans that came to the planet wanted.

[@Nobody32990]

@@chaseviking5096 nah, purge the overgrown smurfs. Humanity first, survival of your own is paramount.

[@chaseviking5096]

@@Nobody32990 fuck humanity if it's going to be so pathetic that it will wipe out another planets species just to claim a planet. Reality is Pandora is plenty big enough to where humanity could have colonized areas not occupied by the native species and actually work together in getting along.

[@jonharper4478]

Let me ask this...These guys have an almost magical ability to clone tissue, right? Why not just clone the Tukun Brain substance? Seems it would solve the problem.

[@PissBreakSupervisorOleHopkins]

Bad writing also fore sight can only go so far

[@conorprendergast9876]

its seems really expensive, and takes years to grow, its probobly cheaper to send a couple boats out,

[@anthonyramirez9925]

⁠@@conorprendergast9876cloning it would allow you to harvest it in quantities much higher than you ever could from hunting it

[@imperatoriacustodum4667]

@@anthonyramirez9925 I think people overlook that the cost of hunting them involves: the crews, the vehicles, the weapons, the weapons' ammunition, fuel, the facilities to deploy said vehicles, general operational costs, replacements because vehicles could be lost, people to service the vehicles, etc. You saw the amount of ammo required to hunt a single one - you need four floatation harpoon things, a torpedo harpoon, sonar harpoon, depth charges, and then the equipment to stick inside the carcass and remove one vial and that's implying it goes right, you still need spares and they use two boats, at least 2 crab-walker-sub-things, and at least 2 submersibles. That costs A LOT just there and even from a personnel standpoint, that's something like 4/5 per boat, 2 per sub, and 1 per crab making it roughly 14/16 people. One efficient cloning vat for the stuff would be cheaper at this point, and you get way more than just a few vials and you have humans who can be given more important jobs without risk of being slapped by fin to death.

[@leonedralev3776]

@@imperatoriacustodum4667 not even that. They could just take a sample of the stuff, analyze then using biotechnology, create synthetic version of the fluid. We already do that with insulin. We used to harvest them from pancreas of cows and pigs. Now we can make synthetic preparations using bacteria and yeast. Pretty sure that the technology developed in the '60s is still available to the humanity in the future.

[@TheBerchie]

Another thing to look at from the human perspective is that we alrighty tried the peaceful route. The A.C.E. (Alpha Centauri Expeditions) tried to form a peaceful relationship with the Na'vi so that human can mine the life saving resource, probably spending millions if not more, and in the end it failed. From the perspective of humanity, what other choice do we have when the peaceful route isn't an option and the fate of humanity hangs by a thread.

[@bigredwolf6]

Couldn’t they have just shown the blue aliens we’re on the verge of extinction?

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@bigredwolf6 That was the whole point of sending out Jake Sully in the first place. But he went native and forgot to tell them.

[@AcidiFy574]

​@@bigredwolf6 Savages are not kind to their own, what makes you think they'll be kind to a different species

[@krzosu]

Well for one - keep out from that planet in the first place just because we are more advancent aint giving the humanity a right to invade other people planets - especially since humanity impending extinction was due to their own stupidity - because yes getting 20B pop is a ridiculus act of stupidity in the first place. And there were planets in our own solar system that could be colonised first - without having to resort to invading other already habitated planets. Its like asking arabs for OIL - and if they don't give you any you come in with a brick to hit them in the face with it saying - "you should have taken my offer when i was asking nicely". Basically the same thing.

[@bigredwolf6]

@@AcidiFy574 Because one would assume that they would prefer trading to fighting since it’s less costly for them. Unless they’re not intelligent enough to realize that Humans will keep coming whether they want them to or not, be it in peace or in war.

[@theliato3809]

The tulkuan stuff is excessive. The mining of unobtainum is needed to properly build up their space fleets enough they can do mass settlement of the solar system in a way to gather needed resources and releive population pressures. Also if you’ve played the Avatar game you’d know that study of pandora is being done to find biological solutions to issues back on earth. The whole conflict on Pandora is a rather tragic case of humanity trying to do better in being diplomatic in getting what they want and getting screwed over by a bad roll of the dice

[@rispil7086]

im sorry but deciding that ween some one says no you cant strip-mine my house you decide to blow it up isn't being diplomatic at all

[@TheAzureNightmare]

A Bad roll of a dice loaded by Eco-Terrorist sympathies, and a loathing of Humanity. Often for childish reasons...

[@theliato3809]

@@TheAzureNightmare to quote that big fake hunter who visited LA during the nineties. *”Shit. Happens.”*

[@ceejay1476]

@@rispil7086 It doesn't matter. Humanity needs to do that to survive. You can say "it is morally wrong" all you want, but I guarantee you if we were all living in that universe and you tried to pull some shit(helping the na'vi and betraying humanity) that would doom all the rest of us, the vast majority of people would grab you and lynch you to survive. You would certainly not live long.

[@seand.g423]

Yeah, but "da promise of human longevity" sells, as long as long as you don't say _which_ humans are _actually gonna get it,_ so...

[@Erunerr]

About the conflict, it was alway gonna happen. The hostilities from the Na'vi are mainly religious reasons, I speak about the Three Laws of Eywa: You shall not set stone upon stone. Neither shall you use the turning wheel. Nor use the metals of the ground. Not to mention that they probably don't understant the scale of humanity nor what the RDA realy is, a corporation is an unknown concept to them.

[@tad4364]

They arnt stupid. They just give a shit about their planet. And yes obviously humans are literally aliens to them.

[@jrr7031]

Where did these laws come from?.who taught them to everyone?

[@Erunerr]

@@jrr7031 According to wiki it came from Eywa herself. Probably when they were conecting. It does raise a few question though, like why so specific... did Eywa experience something like that before?

[@jrr7031]

@@Erunerr my Question EXACTLY its like the Sulrian hypothesis, but...on Pandora. Lol

[@Erunerr]

@@jrr7031 Ah sorry. I took your questions as for where I got the info. Sorry :D

[@No-yt8fu]

Its like Inquisitor Kryptman said: One cannot consider the fate of a single man, nor ten, nor a thousand. Billions will live or die by our actions here, and we have not the luxury to count the cost.

[@notilluminati1295]

When I first saw Avatar back in the day, I quite literally said "I can't wait until Avatar 2: Humanity Strikes Back".

[@stevenschnepp576]

That was the general reaction amongst the thinking crowd. I was half-convinced that, if James Cameron were a competent writer, the second movie would be about the fallout from the Na'vi Finding Out. It might even have been possible to competently and compellingly present the argument of whether or not they were justified in light of everything the humans had done to try and resolve it peacefully, and how many billions of lives needed the resource the Na'vi refused to allow access to for selfish, religious reasons.

[@joe31226]

they had to nerf humans here so bad like even napoleonic strategies could defeat the na'vi

[@tetraxis3011]

@@stevenschnepp576James Cameron must have been replaced with a Skinwalker or something. He has said he regrets making Terminator 2. Which I would consider to be possibly his Magnum Opus. He used to be so good, but look at him now.

[@JustaAm3rican]

@@joe31226 The Romans could defeat the na'vi

[@timexyemerald6290]

​@@joe31226 if they made human a slightly competent. We would have only 1 movie😅

[@ghostofwolfmoonmani3877]

The Navi by their very religion and submission to Eywa will never achieve any great works or settle other worlds and spread Pandora's ecology, they will just continue to eek out a tribal lifestyle until the moon's core dies. Humanity has interstellar travel and can explore the galaxy, in universe they could live on long after both Earth and Pandora die.

[@rispil7086]

doesn't give humanity the right to just take what they want other wise you open the gates toa norther race that's more advanced then humans wiping out humans

[@krzysztowbzymek8003]

@@rispil7086 I'm sure by the laws of nature, they have that right

[@danielgibson3422]

​@@rispil7086and that is what they may well do. I won't say the human species can't co exist and gain from a symbiotic relationship with another spices, but we should also be prepared for the possibility of our need to wipe another spices out for our own survival. Honestly the death of the hippie space cats is inevitable if they don't drop the over reliance on nature at some point, may as well be us to pull them out of the mud.

[@sparking023]

@@rispil7086 you speak like this isn't how it works. thing is, even if another race was to try and wipe us out, I'm sure we would go down fighting. that's how life works, there's always a bigger fish, or you're the top of the food chain

[@Tony-ih1pg]

that doesn't give Humanity the right to wipe them out.

[@matthewmoser1284]

The Avatar universe poses the question: "Would we still care about refugees fleeing violence or climate destruction if the refugees had guns...?"

[@moosings2048]

Not if they used them on the people they were asking for asylum

[@Matt_of_the_mountains]

If they were the cause of what they were fleeing, and came to violently do the same all over again, probably not.

[@austinjackson2574]

I find it funny though that we don't care about refugees fleeing violence or climate destruction. But the second we make the human species the "refugees" and the aliens the ones with the resources, suddenly WE are the victims, even though we give them a non-choice of "let us destroy your culture and take your lands or die".

[@austinjackson2574]

Also usually REAL refugees are not refugees due to their own hubris. Humans, however, in this scenario, put themselves in their current situation. And flee from it, demanding things from an alien race under the assumption they're ENTITLED to those resources.

[@stevenschnepp576]

I don't think it's really that. I think it's more, "Is my sacred site worth more than the lives of a planet?"

[@StormEagle5]

The irony is that an anti-aging serum would make people even more interested in looking after their environment if they lived forever. Extracting it, and then finding a way to synthesize it, or failing that, farm them in as reasonable and ethical fashion as possible would actually be a net positive for environmental interests in the long run.

[@meesironman]

Truuuu hunting them to extinction doesnt help anybody

[@VolcanoQueen]

Farming them isn't ethical at all, they're more smarter than a human, they have their own language, songs and legends, that's like taking a group of people, putting them in a farm and using them like cattle, in what way is that ethical?

[@StormEagle5]

@@VolcanoQueen If they are so smart they might agree that some kind of agreement with the spacefaring scientifically advanced race would be a good idea. A mutually beneficial agreement. And if not, then they maybe aren't that smart after all, because they aren't really in a strong position to bargain.

[@VolcanoQueen]

@StormEagle5 so in short, you want to conduct a Holocaust 2.0 on them. They are either one, give up their family and friends to Aliens that want to harvest their brains for profit, or two, round them up and kill any who try to fight back, and again, harvest their brains for profit, is that what your saying?

[@informationyes]

@@StormEagle5 Bargaining may be pointless also no matter how smart its about self preservation so unless the humans can offer reasonable terms then they may as well resist as thats what an intelligent species may decide to at least keep its integrity, Imagine aliens cam e to use and asked we give them tons of our kids every year so they can harvest them? resisting may be futile but they are our kids

[@frankficcle7081]

The antiageing argument remains me of a 1996 movie called Phenomenon, in which a man has a brain tumor that grants him super intelligence but is also slowly killing him. The movie ends with him refusing to donate his body to science, preferring to be buried in a secret grave. I always thought his decision was rather selfish. I get not wanting them to cut you up while still alive but if he had let them have his corpse after dieing of natural causes, he could have increased our understanding of the human brain by decades, maybe even centuries.

[@bostearns7083]

I actually played the Avatar video game after the first movie came out, it allowed players to really dive into the lore of the Avatar universe. And read up on how Earth's human population was somewhere around 15 billion, with the planet's resources drying up humanity needed to colonize other planets. The Unobtanium was something they discovered was the perfect super conducter for their technology, which would give them the 'energy' they needed to fuel humanity's move from one planet to another. Fun fact, professional scientists have confirmed that the absolute max human population our planet could tolerate was around 17 billion.

[@GrayWolf448]

a few decades ago scientists also confirmed that cigarettes are good for you, and make you younger. gotta be careful with who you trust. If humanity manages to get more solar power, and hydroponics working (both fully possible, just economically difficult) earth could likely sustain rather absurd sizes.

[@mistersoman]

​​​@@OVODnetJapan imports all the required natural resources which comes from other countries. I think the major problem is food and water and pollution. Earth simply doesn't have enough arable land to feed that big of a population. And even if we do, we have to cut down the major forests. And then there is the problem of overuse of soil. And then we need to figure out a way to get rid of our pollution which is inevitable with the technology we use. I don't know if that answers your question but definitely Earth cannot sustain a human population of 20 billion let alone 1 TRILLION. Other animals need to survive to keep the ecosystem going and basically all of them would be dead if we had a population of 1 TRILLION.

[@mistersoman]

@@OVODnet See i dont know exactly because i don't believe either that earth is gonna die in 20 years as some environmentalist say. But it's fair to say that the earth is having a hard time sustaining 8 billion of us. Putting more than 20 billion of us into this planet would definitely negatively impact the planet. And even someone like me believes that overpopulation isn't a death sentence to humanity and still believes that it is a major issue that could be even worse in the future. And when i meant animals that i was also pointing to insects which are more important to the ecosystem. And I'm sorry but there isn't any way that earth can handle a 100 billion humans let alone 1 TRILLION. Nobody needs to have much knowledge to know that. And what about arable land to feed the population. I didnt see you mention that in your reply.

[@kyriss12]

Maybe at our current rate of development but don’t forget that prior to ww1 our agricultural development couldn’t provide for a 3rd of the planets current population so who knows what we’ll be able to support 30 to 40 years from now. The real problem isn’t resources but population density. If you look into the rat utopia experiments you’ll notice there’s a lot of similarities you see between the later stages of that experiment and major metropolitan cities that you don’t see in smaller more spread out communities.

[@DustinDonald-cz9ot]

Scientists lie just like other humans. I can go find food reports that will state that coco puffs are healthier for you than a piece of chicken, or that smoking is good for you, you really need to check who is funding those studies and scientists cause they aren't infallible. We only use 13% of the planet and most countries aren't using the more modern farming techniques and we waste tons of food and water this planet can sustain way more life than those stupid lying scientists quote.

[@lowlife_nolife6047]

A scenario like this about "Megacorporations are evil extractors" and "Oh god Humans are always evil" will not arise. Like Ever. Also, if the laws of science are to be believed, then Pandora and it's inhabitants cannot realistically be like that. I mean, evolution. The Avatar series is more like "Oh Humans consumed so much nature and are evil" kind of wet dream wankoff by James Cameron. Also, Fusion exists. That solves like .... 20-30% of the problem.

[@Spielmaldingens]

"Megacorporations are evil extractors" is literally a concept applicable to most megacorporations we have right now.

[@LaZonaDiRin3743]

Fun Fact: James Cameron think who "Thanos was right" 😐.

[@rispil7086]

you do realize humans have already done this before right just ask the native Americans how they feel about this

[@USAKing1776NASCAR]

⁠@@rispil7086 Why don’t you look at the history of the relationships Native American tribes had with one another. Then we’ll talk. I’m certain you can easily find information on how they battled over territory and enslaved one another, even wasting precious resources like wild game. Long before America was formally settled as an independent country.

[@tatotaytoman5934]

ikr, as if the nearest species to us would be so exactly similar to us to the point where we can undergo a neural transfer 🤣

[@Random_NCR_Ranger]

When i watched this the first the time (the "movie") i was the only one rooting for the huams and when i tried to explain why i root for the humans i was called "militaristic" and "anti-alien" so now i saw they are making a third Avatar and then a fourth movie...im gonna try and get a RDA outfit and show up to the theaters in it.

[@gwit4051]

who would've guessed that rooting for the militaristic, anti-alien humans would get you called militaristic and anti-alien

[@Random_NCR_Ranger]

@@gwit40511. Never denied it bucko 2. Yeah I saw the obvious irony when I woke up just now 3. Death to the aliens

[@OmniDan26]

@@Random_NCR_Ranger based.

[@JaneDoe-dg1gv]

Rooting that you find that outfit.

[@nerobernardino88]

@@JaneDoe-dg1gv Same.

[@MiguelLopez-yc2rh]

It seems to me like Cameron wanted more selling the idea that the universe would be a much better place without humans than exploring the potential of using our technology to terraform new planets and create a better humanity. How inspiring!

[@moosings2048]

If this comments section and video represents the prevailing human viewpoints, he's absolutely right

[@smrutismarak9503]

​​@@moosings2048ot really. If anything these viewpoints solidifies why if humanity were not to be here the existence of the universe or any other lifeforms in it wouldn't matter in the slightest.

[@moosings2048]

@@smrutismarak9503 Typical human egocentric narcissism. "If I didn't exist then nothing else would matter. All of creation exists only for my pleasure. Other sentient races bow to me and exist only to serve me, the master race". That's why if any other race is out there, they'll hate humans. Because humans have a supremacist slaver culture

[@supremecaffeine2633]

​@moosings2048 Why don't you people lead the way?

[@johnroyal4054]

​@moosings2048 what a snobby and pretentious way of thinking

[@PrinceOfChange]

The only good alien is a dead alien -commissar quaritch

[@cloaker7237]

FOR THE EMPEROR

[@21preend42]

One thing that bothers me a lot is I seriously fail to understand how Earth is toxic. It will be highly unlikely that this is possible. Unless there was a nuclear war. Other than that, my only thought was maybe the star was going nova, so they had to evacuate the star system. The reasoning as "running out of resources" is always very dumb because our solar system is full with resources, we only need to mine the moon, forget about all other planets and asteroids.

[@manueldeltoro9944]

Polluted the environment my guy, I. That universe it looks like earth just kept pumping out pollution like there wasn't a care in the world

[@21preend42]

@@manueldeltoro9944just feels like such a bs reason, when they have the tech and the ships to go to other planets. It's so ridiculous. As if they simply can't detoxify it. Lol

[@joshuaanderson1712]

Because they're evulz, duh. The only way Immortality Juice could be less subtle is if you extracted it by tromping on alien puppies with spiked boots.

[@thesocialistsarecoming8565]

​​@@manueldeltoro9944 we literally have the materials science right now to make space habitats with an internal surface area approaching europe (if we used the best possible materials at all expenses it would approach the entire eurasian continent sans india). We could make nearly thousands of these from just the asteroid belt, and if we start stellar mining (on the sun or a star system over) we could make millions of these and house quintillions of people in relative comfort. 'Lack of resources' is lazy writing.

[@manueldeltoro9944]

@@thesocialistsarecoming8565 would we though, where's the profit in that? Look at how we are now, if nothing changed the future would be way worse. People have been told climate change would cause more severe storms and no one cares until "oh look, the lower eastern sea board got washed away, who could have seen this coming" and still no course change in site

[@magneric]

Let's not forget in the first movie, the MC betrayed the human race to get laid by a giant blue cat girl.

[@joshuayoung1424]

That's what I'm sayin' bro. Neytiri's cat CANNOT be THAT good.

[@jaydrianpieters7718]

There is a theory that Jack was actually brainwashed into siding with the Na'vi Ewya,the highly intelligent sapient tree that spans most of the planet,also theorised to control the life on the planet to its benefit,transferred Jack's consciousness from his human body into his avatar and may have quite literally changed his mind in order to fight for the Na'vi

[@Redsauceconsumer]

You don’t know that 😏

[@m.unalercan8920]

Based Generation Films; Barges in Spreads justified xenophobia Refuses to elaborate further Leaves

[@GenerationFilms]

🥹🤣😍

[@captainjackpugh6050]

It's clearly elaborated on.

[@everettjohnson9374]

Just because YOU'RE simple minded it doesn't mean everyone is, they're spreading the good word

[@pyeitme508]

@@GenerationFilms LOL!

[@Eli-el4ls]

Glory to the Imperium of Mankind! The Emperor protects!

[@Nobbejo2]

I don't understand why Neytiri hates humans so much when her spouse is an ex human lol

[@rustyshackleford234]

Here’s how the humans in this movie should’ve taken care of the Navi, strip mined the entire moon, and move to a planet that’s worth inhabiting: 1. Arrive at pandora 2. Make sure you brought all your nukes 3. Glass the entire moon 4. Strip mine the entire moon 5. build big ass space ship 6. Set course for the TRAPPIST-1 system 7. Colonize like 3 earth-like planets Boom. Mankind is saved.

[@kirgan1000]

Especial then Cameron have writen "nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure" in the past. Avatar do also suffer from the Star Wars sequel problem, we have no real clue what is the motive. Save Earth and humanity, or a companies want to make more profit.

[@Wiseman__]

at their tech level they could just do the "Rods of God" weapons system. Basically a big satellite in orbit with large tungsten rods that can be dropped from orbit. They have the same force as an nuclear strike but without radiation.

[@rustyshackleford234]

@@Wiseman__ oooo yeah that would work! I was kinda worried about the radiation lmao

[@rispil7086]

and then a 3rd race see this an decides to wipe out humanity as humans are clearly a race of monsters

[@danjames8314]

​@@Wiseman__ "rods from god" may have the "force" of a nuke, but not the explosive force of one. Ignoring the fuel consumption that towing along massive rods of tungsten would entail, you would need *hundreds* to replicate the damage of a nuke and even then, what a massive fucking waste of tungsten "rods from god" are a bunker busting alternative to nukes, they lack the ultimate destructive capability of splitting an atom then fusing others and that was their purpose as a concept, to be a bunker buster. thats like carpet bombing a city with GBU-28's.

[@EksaStelmere]

When one piece of lettuce is found, the protocol is to remove it and wash the batch, not to throw everything out. I always appreciate attempts to avoid extreme judgement. Good to have you back, American Ben.

[@siluda9255]

i root for humanity because.... i'm human.

[@Anxhelo-h6y]

Me too

[@gotreachyet]

Same, time make the Na'vi, which is very similar to Nazi pay

[@malaficus]

I am rooting for humanity because savages beating a space age tech is insulting. And yea i hate it when humans beat a superior spieces too.

[@RealNapoleonBonaparte81569]

We’re all humans! Root for the humans!

[@soul1d]

I for one wonder why they have not built a city in the sky above Pandora yet. A starbase to hold people, hydroponics, resources, manufacturing etc. A Thalassocracy in space.

[@krzosu]

Establishing such a base would make a lot of sense - so yeah that is amazingly weird they haven't done so.

[@soul1d]

@@krzosu Orbital habitats are the future of humanity in my opinion.

[@AcidiFy574]

U mean an elysium ?

[@soul1d]

@@AcidiFy574 Scale that up considerably, but an orbital habitat. Permanent habitation in space. Make the sky people truly the sky people

[@theliato3809]

It’s an intense effort that can’t quite afford yet

[@CrimsonUltrafox]

All these morally righteous people in the comments section saying humans are wrong for doing this...I'm here to tell you straight up that the overwhelming majority of our species would happily displace another species if we were going to die. It's easy to sit here and wax philosophically about why colonialism is wrong (and it is), but we live in a culture and a time that allows for such thoughts and privileged values to exist. It's the same thing as a vegetarian choosing between eating meat or starving to death. You can stick to your morals only for so long...because survival instinct is real and 99 out of 100 of those vegetarians will eat the meat to live. Now I believe the humans went about this entirely the wrong way in this franchise. With their technology it would make more sense to build orbital habitats. There's more than enough water to harvest in the Kaiper belt and with the sun you essentially have unlimited energy. Realistically, that is far easier to do than interstellar colonization. Showing up to colonize Pandora makes no sense due to the planet's toxic atmosphere. If it's all just about the Onobtanium then couldn't they have just mined it from non inhabited areas or told the Na'vi why they needed it? Also, if they're capable of interstellar travel, then why not go to other planets like the Trappist System or other places with possible habitable worlds. Considering our current technology is on the cusp of determining exoplanet habitability, I find it ridiculous that they are incapable of finding other solutions. That is the main gripe I have with the humans in this franchise. One can justify their actions for preservation, but do they really need Pandora? The whole thing seems so forced just to make humans look evil and jerk off the hippies.

[@rianmacdonald9454]

really, you going to say that to me - considering the cost of M sticking to my morals. HUMANITY in the film, and even 98% of this thread saying they were right, are the very reason I despise humanity - Lets just hope, that an alien race doesn't come here and strip mine the planet and harvest humans for anti aging drug to save them - now that would be ironic - I wonder would you defend their actions in saving their species? humans are just too primitive and selfish to be allowed to leave this planet.

[@zeehero7280]

in the end when its the only avaliable option, survival trumps morality.

[@imperatoriacustodum4667]

You just made me think about the material they're mining a bit more. It's in pandora, right? So it HAS to be elsewhere in the solar system for it to have gotten into the forming body of Pandora. I think Cameron doesn't quite get how resource distribution works on an intrasolar scale. Heck, it'll have to be on multiple moons of Pandora's host gas giant because the original source would've orbited within that region of the early star and condensed in. It would probably also be in the asteroid belts of the system as well. If they can do a detailed geological survey of Pandora's material composition, I think they'd have had to have done so for other orbiting bodies in the system to even find Pandora.

[@sm3ghe4d22]

@@zeehero7280 Is that so ? Ok then lets put that to a test with a situation where an advance alien race came and threatened to blow up our planet if you didnt Rape,tortured,killed everyone you personally know and loved. Are you gunna do it for not only yur own sake but the sake of the human race? I know that I am sure as fucking hell not going to.

[@Goro_Maj1ma]

Careful not to cut yourself with all that edge

[@NeverQuiteAlex]

One day, the Na'vi will go extinct; their world little more than a tomb. And the stars above that tomb, will belong to us.

[@Nexalian_Gamer]

We can speed that up with some tungsten space rods

[@Ned-nw6ge]

"Greed has brought you to our doorstep, and now you scream at us, brandishing your weapons in insane need to consume and destroy all that is within your sight, but you have not learned a single lesson, and therefor your actions are doomed to merely prolong the inevitable. There can be no future among the stars if most of your kind barely have food to eat."

[@Paintballperson-k2l]

​@@Ned-nw6getreason

[@ambushbob5383]

His species is literally facing an existential crisis of survival and jake continues to help those standing in the way of his own species salvation. Hes kind of evil.

[@moosings2048]

Your sense of morality has become so twisted by selfish narcissistic worship of humanity that you can't tell what evil really is anymore... Evil is materialistic destruction of innocent lives and forced domination and assimilation of anything useful to you. Evil is an anthive, all working to serve the bloated demon queen with no sense of self or the value of smaller forms of life.

[@meesironman]

Nah but neitiri a baddie

[@thegamersconclave8709]

Imagine turning your back on your entire species just to hook up with an alien that literally fucks trees and animals. They should have hung that dude when they had the chance.

[@stur3366]

Can't really blame him. He'll I would probably say fuck humans after everything they have done.

[@NovaStationGaming]

Sorry but if my species was committing war crimes and strip mining a planet which in itself is sentient and I have a banging new body I would switch sides too. Humanity absolutely sucks in this movie

[@rpk321]

All of this happened because some idiot forgot to carry out his diplomatic mission and then turned traitor.

[@dannyzero692]

A morally good decision is one that sustain and enhance life. Destroying an enemy that intends to destroy you is an act of moral courage. To not destroy life that is necessary in the pursuit of preserving one's self is moral cowardice. Any action is morally good if it is necessary to preserve your existence, for it is as natural as a tiger killing a deer to feed and sustain itself.

[@Bluboy511]

The Humans did attempt a diplomatic approach to colonizing Pandora but the Na'vi are xenophobic so relations quickly devolved into open warfare

[@dozergames2395]

To be fair they also bulldozed two of their sacred trees. I mean look at what america did when the twin towers got knocked. They even went after the wrong guys

[@JVandthebrotherhood]

Xenophobic for not wanting to trade when they aren't required to? Colonization is never the answer, you can see how it happened IRL after the USA, Europe and Japan started colonizing and expanding

[@colincolombo2095]

@@JVandthebrotherhoodand the world is a much better place for it lol

[@nicholasemjohnson47]

@@colincolombo2095 Better for the colonists; not so much for the locals.

[@Nexalian_Gamer]

Before we arrived, America was a giant field/desert/forest inhabited by a bunch of goons that were killing each other for land. We told them to pound sand and actually did something useful with the land instead of sitting around a campfire and living in little tents@@JVandthebrotherhood

[@Hailfire08]

I wonder how they found out the whale juice reverse aging thing... Were they dissecting one of the whales in a lab and then one of the professors slipped and fell in the ooze and comes out looking like half-baby Two-Face?

[@AdaTheWatcher]

Someone probably ate it, that's how most of the things are found out.

[@General_Belu]

@@AdaTheWatcher That doesn’t make sense either. It’s only been 14 years (from what I could hear, maybe a little more, maybe a little less) since the last film. What? Did they give it to an old dying person? Doubt it. It would be years until they found out the “juice” stopped aging if they gave it to a regular healthy young person. Years I tell you.

[@casbot71]

What will be truly terrifying is in *Avatar 3,* when Ewya _corrupts Colonel Quaritch_ after he connects to the Pandoran neural network - because Jake did and Miles has issues. Just like with Jake Sully, _who only went over to team Na'vi after linking to the network,_ colonel Quaritch will become a traitor to Humanity, *and a threat to it.* Imagine Colonel Quaritch in his Na'vi body, having full access to Human Military facilities on Pandora, and the complete trust of the military, while secretly fighting for the Na'vi. Add his knowledge (including current plans and intentions) to that of Sully and Dr Grace Augustine and Ewya will become even more formidable. The worst case scenario Quaritch tricks other avatars to link with the Pandoran neural network and they get their loyalties overwritten. Then Humanity will have a enemy within, while the planet becomes smarter, more skilled and more scientifically literate.

[@AcidiFy574]

Nah not scientifically literate

[@808hearmannxea2]

I hope Ewya just says f-ck it and sends the wildlife after them again.

[@randomly_random_0]

I think Eywa is evil

[@bigmouthstrikesagain4056]

It is evil...its a conscious entity that culls the population when it thinks its getting too big... and essentially makes the navi revere it and fear it... its essentially a genocidal global dictator

[@bigmouthstrikesagain4056]

I'm on the side of the humans

[@taktik1193]

I think the the only reason the RDA lost is cause they didn’t have access to better military equipments. I think a lot of their equipments were multipurpose and not solely dedicated to combatting hostiles. Cause in the modern age we have some pretty advance stuff I can’t imagine what things we’ve thought up of in the future with our propensity for violence

[@flyboy6392]

we are a proud warrior culture, and in the case of Avatar, a warrior race, clawing our path through the stars by might and strength.

[@caozinhopirata]

Nah, dumb tactics. The RDA had some mighty powerful stuff, it's just that the first battle of Pandora, was incredibly badly planned on their end. They had a large Valkyrie shuttle, a large and slow Dragon Assault Ship, and a lot of agile Scorpion Gunships. They chose to clump every one of them together during their flight, flying at exceptionally low altitudes, making them vulnerable to the natural terrain around them, and attacks from wildlife and Banshee riders. The tree needed to be bombed by the valkyrie, but they decided to go for a low altitude bombing run, flying slowly. What SHOULD have been done, from a strategic standpoint, in order to achieve the destruction of the tree, is high altitude bombardment, WW2 Bomber Style. Hell, just high enough to avoid the Banshees. Put the Dragon and the Scorpions in Escort Duty, to try and intercept anything, and watch the tree go boom. It would have caused a big morale drop in the Na'vi, and dealing with them would have been made a hell of a lot easier. In general, the RDA, with a lot of the military technology we see utilized, is not very efficient, indeed. Being the "Most powerful human organization", you'd think they'd have access to weapons of mass destruction, guided munitions, proper fighter jets, tanks. Instead they have technology that wouldn't quite work well in the context of their occupation of Pandora, and that is severely misused, in conjunction with bad tactics, that work to give the Na'vi plot armor.

[@mnk9073]

Sacrifice Humanity or displace some blue monkeys from their mumbojumbo-spots? The answer is clear, Avatar 3: Exterminatus. Because you can still obtain Unobtanium from a glassed moon.

[@merafirewing6591]

James Cameron: But Meh Blue Aliens!? That definitely what he would say.

[@PrinceOfChange]

>head bangs big red button repeatedly

[@sparking023]

based and comissar-pilled

[@moosings2048]

Spoken like a soulless monster who would sell the spirit of his dead grandmother for a car accessory.

[@mnk9073]

@@moosings2048 So you would let billions of your own kind perish and the only habitable planet fall to ruin just in order to not upset the religious feelings of a few ten thousand blue monkeys? Selfloathing Traitor.

[@haydenlale7346]

Been a while, thought you quit but glad you’re back!!

[@GenerationFilms]

Good to be back😎

[@BlackTemplar_Legionary1392]

Humanity first. But I'm heavily in support of negotiations first

[@TheLiamster]

I’m pro RDA just as I support the empire in Star Wars

[@EnclaveSOC-102]

RDA all the way.

[@renzmanzano4010]

Im pro CCP cause authoritarian governments are badass

[@spc1481]

Do you also read Mein Kampf as bedtime story?

[@juimymary9951]

I'd rather say that I am pro-humanity, which means against the RDA which is the entity banking on humanity's desperation...

[@bigredwolf6]

@@juimymary9951 Or causing it

[@fearthewolf1175]

In the first movie we tried to place nice and keep a small bit stable colony. But then the Xenos had to do the stupid things so now humanity is taking off the gloves and not caring who gets purged

[@meesironman]

I always wondered why they didnt just search for unobtanium anywhere else. Why did it have to be right under the navi's main homes and religious sites?

[@therandomcommenter6629]

​@@meesironman because that's just where the ore was

[@avronthecorrupted2781]

Honestly, switch the roles and humanity would be in the wrong according to your comment.

[@diooverheaven6561]

Mate they did what humanity would do if some aliens would land on our land claiming that they need to extract something to save their race and that thing would be under the biggest cities

[@supremecaffeine2633]

​@avronthecorrupted2781 I'm pretty sure people would be saying it was humanity's fault then, too, or blaming a specific human character for it

[@MR-DESHON-R]

Only thing I'd disagree is you probably don't want to reverse the aging process if you already have a overpopulation issue!

[@ihaventshoweredin6weeksbut527]

Exactly!

[@heroic9631]

Since it’s expensive, they’ll probably only have it for Rich people while everyone else aren’t able to get it.

[@ronanchristiana.belleza9270]

@@heroic9631 Even then what's stopping other people to steal it?

[@heroic9631]

@@ronanchristiana.belleza9270 that happens too lol

[@rolicemmanuel977]

@@ronanchristiana.belleza9270 that is if they are stupid enough to announce it to the rest of the world

[@ehsannadeem3970]

I am rooting for Navi to lose. Listen I understand the pains of colonialism, my people were oppressed by British but it’s hard to dislike humans when all of them collectively colonize to save their species. I am a hypocrite, yes. Humans on humans, bad. Humans on everything else, good.

[@malaficus]

If anything avatar humans are way nicer to the navi then we are too our own. Thrust me. If humans where protrayed realisticly then navi's would be sold on the market.

[@fraskf6765]

How do you think would your country look right now if the british didnr arrive there or ignored your people?

[@testinghydra5652]

I feel like the reverse aging thing is actually one of the worst possible things that humanity could get a hold of while they are struggling with the crisis of finding a suitable place to live. Because if everyone got that reverse aging drug, then you're gonna have an extreme problem of population growth as people will not longer be dying, or no where near as many as normal. More people consume more resources, the faster they deplete their environment, and sooner than expected they're back where they started.

[@Cowboycomando54]

I never understood how after the RDA came under attack and eventually were pushed off the planet, the country that the RDA is based in or a coalition of governments didn't declare the Navi a hostile enemy nation along with a declaration of war. With war declared, the militaries of the governments would invade with completely different mission parameters and ROE from that of the cooperate security forces.

[@Noob-yx1cu]

because its a company

[@nerobernardino88]

@@Noob-yx1cu And?

[@cesargonzalez4146]

I felt like the settlement idea was scrapped pretty early in the movie, like no one talks about once Sully and his family emigrate to the ocean.

[@stevenschnepp576]

Cogent thinking and a cohesive plotline aren't exactly the strong suits of misanthropes.

[@lurkingladofthepiedmont]

I think a lot of the critiques I'm seeing are premature because there are at least 3 more movies to go, and Way of Water and Avatar 3 themselves were originally started off as one entry then split off into two. I got the feeling that we will see this settlement again, developed and populated, by the 3rd or 4th movies. Knowing too that the 5th movie is supposed to go to Earth, I'm expecting there is going to be more of an exploration of the human side, of attempts for peace, and of changing the very way of life that led to the Earth becoming depleted. Now while I have my biases in favor of such a storyline, I also figure that James Cameron is going more for that kind of an angle versus an Avatar 5: The Glassing of Earth kinda thing, ya know?

[@bobbyflynn6352]

Do you have a video on Eywa with the information in the second film? It pretty much confirms my suspicions that Eywa is an evil planet spanning entity bent on complete domination.

[@rispil7086]

Eywa is the plant fool its not planet spanning entity the whole world is Eywa they even say so in the first movie

[@bobbyflynn6352]

@@rispil7086 Eywa is the consciousness composed of the signals between the untold trillions of tree roots all across the planet. The trees across Pandora and the signals between their roots form a massive brain. Grace tries to explain this in the first film, but but no one listens to her.

[@nathanwelks1878]

@@bobbyflynn6352Yeah rispil definitely did not listen to her

[@moosings2048]

Only a pitiful insecure species like a human could see a natural interwebs consciousness that doesn't dominate or interfere as an automatic threat instead of a unifying savior. I bet you'd bow to an actual evil tyrant entity real quick though.

[@overlordminigun6346]

And when we needed him most, he returned!! Damn it’s good to see American Ben back! All we need is British Ben trashing discovery and we’ll be set!

[@GenerationFilms]

🫡here to serve

[@overlordminigun6346]

@@GenerationFilms so am I brothers

[@DoomStarRequiem]

Those who consort with the xeno face the wall. The rest of you.. proud humans .. you're the best, humanity is the best.

[@thepuncakian2024]

Also while leveling a 10 mile diameter swath of land to make a city may sound evil on its surface, it the long run it probably will lead to less Na'vi deaths. Its a densely populated city projected to have 2 million inhabitants, therefore a population density of around 70,000 per square mile. For comparison the most densely populated city on Earth is Manila, Philippines, with a population density of 119, 600 people per square mile, and Bridgehead City itself is closest in population density to Bnei Brak, Israel, which ranks as the 9th densest city in the world. They're putting as many people as possible in an area as small as possible. The settlement also has a clear dividing line between the wilderness and itself. Its basically saying "thats your shit, this is my shit, and if you attack me I will see you coming from 2 miles away and annihilate you with an insane amount of firepower". It deters the Na'vi from even attempting to attack the city because such an attack would be suicidal. If all 20 billion people from Earth were moved to Pandora with the same population density as Bridgehead, then approximately 785,000 square miles of land would be required, which sounds like a lot but is an area just a little bigger than that of Mexico, which considering Pandora is only slightly smaller than Earth and has a greater land to water ratio, should give the Na'vi PLENTY of space for themselves.

[@callisto_ks3778]

this comment makes an outrageous amount of sense, I wouldn't want another species on my planet either but if they only inhabited a small portion and left me alone? that doesn't sound horrific. Maybe a little unsettling but better than being shot at all the time.

[@garyobrian3597]

Avatar 1 Columbus has come Avatar 2 the conquistadors have arrived in a nutshell

[@zidniafifamani2378]

He only brought like 500 inquisitor, and somehow you expect them to be equal in strength to ten of thousands native?, it's never about European vs Native American, it's always about Spanish Inquisition + Oppressed Native American vs Oppressor Native American. Remember that Native Americans are pretty brutal to each other that want extreme ethno state by committing genocides, cannibalize and enslave weaker man in the conquered tribes, stealing their woman, enslaving and sacrificing the children from conquered tribes, and many more atrocities.

[@Aurik-Kal-Durin]

Screw it. Wipe out the Na'vi. Pandora belongs to humanity now. No blue xenos allowed.

[@diooverheaven6561]

So humanity not allowed cool. (Humans are alien to Pandora)

[@KossolaxtheForesworn]

the blue xenos abominations deserve no less.

[@chargedx5768]

"Screw it wipe out the Ukrainians....Ukraine belongs to Russia now" Let's see how you process this ☠️

[@blockedjuser1272]

My cannon is that the movies are made from sully's point of view. And since he died and got his sentience transferred by Eywa the super alien organism it made sully into one of it's drones and thus filled his mind with Eywa propaganda. 11:52 Humans come in to mine the planet. Eywa: Hey that's me they are mining me! Get them smurfs and no I will not take no for an answer for I will fry the "no" out of your brain.

[@danielefabbro822]

When Cameron is sober: "Aliens" When Cameron is drunk: "Avatar" 🤣🤣🤣

[@neimenovani7256]

Human apologyst? NO! It is called to be in the right

[@IronCrawdady]

If they ever make a Battlefront type game set in that universe I wonder just how quickly the human faction would become the Imperium of Man.

[@neimenovani7256]

A week, but sounds more fun than 60% of the games released now

[@IronCrawdady]

@@neimenovani7256 They would create new racial slurs just for the Na've.

[@neimenovani7256]

@@IronCrawdady Blugger

[@kanebekkattla3963]

@@IronCrawdady you mean the tentacle braids or the animal "connectors"

[@noahvcat9855]

As the saying goes, "War is atrocity committed in the name of survival"

[@theonpointheavy4401]

And hatred... And faith... And loot...

[@jeffjohnson1966]

Yes my boy is back! I was literally just wondering when you're going to post another video yesterday. I spent most of yesterday rewatching your expanse breakdowns just because I missed hearing your voice. Lol. Glad you're back brother

[@epicsardines6440]

For reals

[@GenerationFilms]

I make videos for viewers like you man!

[@jeffjohnson1966]

@@GenerationFilms this! This right here is why I human! Thank you!

[@admiralYamamoto_]

Alien: hello let’s be friends Me with a 20mm auto cannon: YEAAAAAA GET SUMMMMMMMM

[@warhammer8867]

Its more the opposite. Human Diplomat: Hello there alien, want to trade resources? Navi Hunter: He's an invader, we should kill them without good reason. Human diplomat got shot in the face by an oversized arrow. Couple Years Later Dying Navi: "Why are doing this?" Humanity Tactical Mech: "We gave you peace and return by violence. So we decided to give you eternal peace in the grave."

[@JJO117]

If only they could clone the tulkun like the Navi, then they could replicate the substance without killing.

[@stevenschnepp576]

Not even that. They'd just need to locate the genes that produce the ooze and insert them into, say, _E. coli_ and produce from there.

[@joshuaanderson1712]

Forget about that, it never happened. Don't look directly at the holes, you'll go blind.

[@Angry_Squirrel555]

Good to see you back Ben. You look like you’re doin good.

[@GenerationFilms]

😁🤙yep. Good to hear from you as well.

[@reinierdash9020]

least the movie shows the na`vi can't beat them on even ground anymore like the first movie with the creatures they already set up mutilple domed cities already

[@CounterLink]

So glad to see your face my friend, glad you found the passion you needed!

[@GenerationFilms]

😁🤙thanks. Always have the time to defend our species.

[@CounterLink]

@@GenerationFilms well said!

[@ValentineElCarbona]

There is no place for the weak-willed or hesitant. Only by firm action and resolute faith will mankind survive. No sacrifice is too great. No treachery too small." --Liber Doctrina Ordo Hereticus, Chapter XXVII, "Exterminatus"

[@picivyvortac2641]

Quarrich is how James Cameron clunkily lets you know "don't think about this. Humans bad." You are digging into this until you find a moral conundrum, but JC didn't want a conundrum. He wanted human/colonizer bad, alien/noble savage good.

[@justafan5179]

Basically what we have here, is a "yes, but" situation. Are the humans right for trying to save their species at any cost? Yes. Is that an excuse to lay absolute waste to an alien planet and its inhabitants, simply because you have the upper hand, technologically/militaristically?... not really. This is a case where there aren't really any "right" or "wrong" sides... just wrong approaches. If there is truly nowhere for the humans to live, without fully disrupting the Na'vi and their lifestyle... then obviously there are some incredibly hard questions to answer. Does humanity actually plan to live on Pandora?... or just Earth 2.0? Can the Na'vi accept a different species, as refugees? There are countless other questions to answer, but ultimately they are all moral ones, which you (and James Cameron) have alluded to beautifully. I absolutely love the Avatar films so far, as they truly are bringing up some serious talking points, and warnings for humanities current state of affairs... and how we answer them, will absolutely determine our fate as a species. There are some insanely huge pills to swallow, and everyone is affected equally, just in different ways. I cannot wait to see where this ride goes. Outstanding video!

[@danilwerlin-xp4hd]

Wrong. Your attempt at muddying the water falls flat.

[@rispil7086]

@@danilwerlin-xp4hd so what do you do if a 3rd more powerful race shows up an decide they don't like humans doing what there doing

[@JakeBaldwin1]

@@rispil7086 I'm for humanity in any case. Morality doesn't really come into it for me when human survival is at stake.

[@mysteriesmercenary615]

​@@rispil7086 Do what humanity what humanity does best. build. blast. build.

[@dozergames2395]

​@@mysteriesmercenary615 The UNSC: looks at you motherfuckerly

[@jackreacher1717]

The Navi are a tribal civilization,ALL tribal cultures are inherently violent,as nature is inherently violent. Survival in nature requires ruthlessness beyond any morality.

[@I_have_Claws]

Did they burn massive amounts of land NO

[@justinfleming1665]

There was not a point in the film where I was not rooting for the humans.

[@sparking023]

I'mma be honest, when I first watched Avatar, I thought that we humans were in the wrong, but then time passed and I realized that yes, between my species and some alien race dwelling on glowing trees, *I'll take humanity all the way,* and no amount of blue monke butt will convince me otherwise. Life is a race to gather resources and all the time we see individuals taking these resources over the survival of others. Humanity first, always.

[@johanmetreus1268]

So, anyone with a life-threatening medical issue that can be treated but is not affordable has a moral right to commit any acts of violence in order to raise the funds needed?

[@sparking023]

@@johanmetreus1268 of course not, because we, as humans, share the same general values and operate under the same law. I'm not as inclined to extend the same benefits towards alien races, in the same way you don't call it murder when you kill a cow or theft when you take its milk

[@ceejay1476]

@@johanmetreus1268 Under the morality of that has begotten the existence of the entirety of the common human rights of humanity? Yes, absolutely he is justified. Under the laws of most countries? No. The right to life is the first and ultimate right from which all other rights stem from. It cannot be cancelled by any other right, not even in the case where two different people's right to life are found in conflict. If they are, then both are justified to act to survive. Otherwise you find yourself in a situation where you can justify the extermination an genocide of classes or genders or groups of people based on who has a greater right to live based on whatever biased criteria you wish to rule yourself by.

[@johanmetreus1268]

@@ceejay1476 " If they are, then both are justified to act to survive." Logical and stringent, so I'll buy into that basic premise as the moral foundation. Does this get effected by scale though? Am I as justified taking... a hundred lives? to preserve my own as those hundred would be justified to kill a single person (me!) to preserve theirs?

[@ceejay1476]

@@johanmetreus1268 by what meter and right would you place more weight to one life than to a hundred. If that is the case, is there the case that one single life could be worth more than other lives, if for example, they are the lives of rapist or child molesters? On the same note, if one life Is never worth more than another, are justified then to kill 999 people to save 1000, no matter the situation or context, even the 999 are innocent children and the 1000 are remorseless serial killers?

[@mariocervantez2853]

"when faced with extinction any alternative is preferable" the director from Red vs Blue.

[@BOBBIOFTT]

I watched this movie recently. I'm not sure Jimmy is a genius. It was really the same movie with a little bit of titanic thrown in at the end. Oh ya and the same message that humans are bad.

[@therealwinston3634]

in my opinion, Way of Water was better than the first one, a little bit but not much

[@Mandragoron]

Bad at war maybe.

[@PaulZyCZ]

Well, with that tech level, serum could be synthetised... unlike the same thing in Babylon 5, which was made from people.

[@doginababyseat5127]

My thoughts exactly. They can create hybrid aliens, but can’t synthesize a fluid? Also how did they discover alien whale brain juice can reverse aging? Who chugged the brain juice?

[@A10N50]

The story in Battle for Terra makes way more sense than Avatar

[@Nopal11-v5m]

Yeah! At least main protagonist feel bad for humanity even led them to live on terra! Battle for terra is simple and humble 3D animation but with more make sense lore and story!

[@fafafafafafa6879]

Virgin Avatar fan vs Chad Battle for Terra enjoyer

[@Ensensu2]

From the Na'vi's perspective, the humans have come to Pandora to play High On Life, and they're the aliens.

[@bera580]

this is the first time ive seen high on life referenced ever

[@TauPathfinder334]

Would you sacrifice all of humanity and earth for like 2500 blue aliens?

[@Lornext]

The Xenos dies and humanity will live for another day.

[@jakegyllenrat4443]

The God Emperor of Mankind Approved this Video

[@absolutemadlad5662]

As do the UNSC

[@dumbidea1007]

I love that at first they tried to use unobtainium as a an alegory for petrole but people's just generaly agreed with human

[@elitemook4234]

The problem with the avatar films is that it's core gimmick undermines the story it is trying to tell. The supposedly evil and greedy humans spent untold amounts of time, effort, and money creating avatar bodies in an attempt to treat peacefully with a race of xenophobic shoot-on-sight aliens. Jake himself would have been shot on sight if not for pure luck and he was the only person the Navi gave a chance to earn their trust, which the other people on the avatar project lament. Maybe things could have turned out diffrently if he'd actually done his job.

[@cinemantics231]

The survival argument is weak tea. If humans have overpopulated the Earth and mastered space travel, then they're already settled on planets within the solar system and have learnt how to do so in perpetuity. So, there's no impending extinction threat. The point I took from the movie was how humanity is constitutionally incapable of any meaningful reflection into its own goals and how it fit into an ecosystem. This is amply demonstrated by how humans continue to act as a parasite even when fully aware of what their actions led to on Earth. We simply cannot negotiate with our comforts and short term gratifications which leads to long term problems such as the "rationale" given for invading Pandora. The whole immortality serum thing only illustrates this point further since it's erasing death from an already burgeoning population.

[@harbour2118]

The thing I hate about most in Avatar 2 is the introduction of Amrita, and the way it works almost feels like it’s meant to make humanity even more deplorable, it’s not useful in creating solutions to human survival, it just makes those wealthy enough to buy it immortal, and that’s its only use, and it’s only adding salt to the wound by having it extracted from intelligent beings, those whale creatures (i forgot their names) As much as you have talked about the use amrita positively, it’s designed to make humans the bad guys as it’s sought after for by the rich and isn’t useful for the poor, in-fact it’s really not useful; it makes you stop ageing, it doesn’t make you regenerate, it doesn’t make you immune to illness, it doesn’t cure cancer, or anything else, it just stops ageing, and that’s it

[@Mika-ph6ku]

This is what I was Thinking. I don't understand how he came to the conclusion that extracting Amrita is a benevolent cause when it's literally explicitly stated in the movie that it's merely being extracted to sell to elites for a quick buck.

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

And it still fails at making us look bad because as it was said, if I had the cure to death in my brain, you'd all be calling me selfish for refusing. But if it's a whale... well that's a different matter isn't it. Unless of course a whale really did have the cure to death, then we wouldn't be hearing these complaints.

[@l0rf]

It is perhaps also important to point out that in the eyes of the Marine Corps and the RDA, Jake Sully is a deserter, traitor and thief of advanced biotechnology in the form of his avatar. He used to be under the colonels command. That does strike me as a somewhat justifiable reason for the actions of the main antagonist to bring this man to justice.

[@tad4364]

Jake also served, and when it was over he was disregarded and treated like shit. I think he is more so justifyed to fight his own species for what they did not only to him but to another planet.

[@random_person266]

​@@tad4364cool motive but still dessertion

[@supremecaffeine2633]

​@@tad4364 Not what happened. He was injured in combat and honorably discharged. He was then given a chance to get his legs back by completing the mission. He turned traitor and deserves a bullet for the trouble.

[@lyntonfleming]

@@random_person266 From an authoritarian regime that only cared about him after his brother died... And even then, only as a replacement. He was still treated like shit for his disability... Which he got by serving. You gonna call N. Korean defectors traitors and deserters too, because the realised their country doesn't give a fuck about them and would sooner see them dead than living a decent, happy life?

[@thelonecourier3439]

@@random_person266dont forget that is practically spitting at the memory of his brother

[@thedoruk6324]

Up next: Why The Combine [ CMB ] was correct about the true subduing of human race!

[@wilsonno9675]

Hol' up

[@thedoruk6324]

@@wilsonno9675 we already crossed that line

[@lordpenguin2248]

"Am I to understand we must leave Pulchra to die?" "No brother. We must help it die." - Imperium Crusade

[@qwefg3]

Three simple issues. 1) Humans are always evil and the blue monkeys are always good. The director just keeps forgetting that he is giving survival or death to humanity verse the blue monkey people wanting to live as hippies. 2) dumbest action is always taken first. You have space ships for humans and bombs for humans... So do some good old orbital drop shots to clear up those numbers. That or do other smart actions like... Colonize the opposite side of the planet if their current half is troublesome. And yes because it has been said... Clone brain juice. You have the technology and it would be cheaper to clone it than the ninety other clone alien bodies made with the explosives you are using that could blow up that needed brain juice into the water or on the floor. 3) We know nothing is going to change. No seriously. Humanity still doomed and they have 20 billion people to toss away where even half the population dying in this planet would help fix the population issue. The blue monkey people? Far less people, yet magic planet magic will always even the odds. So since the monkey people can't fly to earth humanity can keep sending more and more people until someone gets smart enough to start using actual bombs and city destroying weapons to wipe out their easily known locations of their foes and then go back to business. Yet stupidity must be maintained for moral grand standing. Like saying that hunting Wales is bad.

[@_S.D._]

Nature is brutal af and unforgiving. I was watching a nature show/docuseries last weekend with my hubby. One particular episode was centered on a pride of lions. I watch almost every member of the pride help distract the main female/mother while others killed and ate her new cubs!! I'll never look at lions the same. Dean Shenider didn't tell us about that part. The next episode was another new mom, wild dogs this time had all her pups stolen from the den and killed! I might have cried a little. I haven't watched it since. .

[@the36lessons11]

Pandora is but a single step on the staircase of human dominance in the galaxy. Memorials and museums will suffice to their sacrifice on the anvil of human progression.

[@halothere6995]

Humanity first we don’t have the luxury to have sympathy.

[@knuckelsknowsdawea]

What is still dont get is that those spec ops marines from quaritch team all got killed easily, while if you would use realistic thinkin and outcome they would have killed all the navi that they fought against with ease. The second thing is they could have used jdams,himars or orbital precision munitions to eliminate the navi without needing to use troops and derstroying to much of the habitat.

[@WildWackyBro]

Because plot-fu*king-armor. I hate so much when humans gets absolutely devastated by most horrendous ways, but Na'Vi could escape everything, and survive everything. In Avatar 2 it was strongest. Humans must be bad at any cost. Na'Vi absolutely good and perfect.

[@knuckelsknowsdawea]

It is a shame because that really makes the movie less fun to watch

[@odaviing3871]

The hunting of the Tulkun is a bit of a different issue. Sure, you'd want your body harvested for the betterment of your own species. But what if an alien species came to Earth, and simply asked to harvest us for the betterment of their species? I don't exactly see how this is a logical argument as if the shoe was on the other foot, there is no doubt in my mind we'd turn that down. Even if they could harvest what they needed "safely."

[@kaptenhiu5623]

AVATAR 2 could be a PERFECT Movie if they just throw away their comical "humans bad, nature good argument". They could change the script into this: humans already colonized several uninhabitable part of Pandora. Most of them sponsored by private companies such as RDA to work on mines, farms, and whale wharves. They already have native Pandora born children and numbered around hundreds of thousands spread around several settlements. They already established contact and trade relation with other native tribes such as The Metkayina. The navi tribes gains medicines, human education, better hunting weapons and modern ships. Humans get unobtainium, Tulkun brain matter, fish, fur, and hunted animals in return. But some Navi tribes led by Jake Sully, refuses to allow humans to even land on the planet. They frequently attack human settlements and raid Navi tribes that have relationship with human colonists. Tired of constant harrasments, Metkayina Tribe asked humans for weapons and help to defend their home. This led to even more conflicts and more tribes joining both sides until there huge civil war in Pandora with brutal attrocities commited by both sides. The UN finally intervenes and under a threat of massive orbital bombardment, Jake Sully had to agree to cease fire and split Pandora into human states, Navi territories, independent tribe areas, and neutral territories governed by both sides. This peace agreement ends the current conflict but set the stage for a new cold war between Navi natives and humans in the future. Meanwhile, another sentient being, a hive-mind with God-like power, Eywa is watching, waiting for the right moment to punch

[@Reinhard_Erlik]

Incredible, I will make a video on this soon.

[@munanchoinc]

The problem with the Life De-aging argument is that the likelihood of it bring distributed to the masses is near impossible. The substance would all likelihood be given to the rich and powerful. It won't help humanity at the slightest. It also doesn't help that this results in any negotiations with the Navi near impossible due to their religion and culture being directly engrained within nature itself. This is equivalent of bombing Iraq "for peace" and oil and suddenly asking "Why do Iraqis hate us" which would radicalize people to hate them even further. It would suddenly bring up the risk of more radical and extremist factions and in a long drawn out war.