Avatar 2 - Pretty, Stupid

[@deejay3984]

Spoiler / Questions: In the final battle, all the water people disappear despite no visible losses or retreat. Where do they go? They clearly don’t die. Also, what happens to the crab submarines and other submarines? We only see one or two being taken out despite there being loads in the water moments earlier. Why was the colonel so important to clone? And if he’s that important, why not make more of him? They can have loads of angry clones in the next sequel!

[@iniki1234]

They probably set a back up for him (I don't know why his squad) because he was the the commander of the original operation, he knows more bout Pandora, people, probably just great connections, and instead of teaching a new guy they recreate the same dude, especially since RDA knows he's loyal to them and wouldn't turn or feel empathy for the genocide. As for the crabs and submarines with how easy they were able to bring down the boats, it's just off screen deaths, as to why the tribe didn't stay that's a plot hole I can't defend because the daughter was still on the boat or on the rock.

[@deejay3984]

Sure. But what I mean is as the Colonel is supposedly so great and they have his memory copied, then can just make more of him. A whole squad of him.

[@sreerag8293]

They only fight until the eclipse that is their rule , it shown in the film the eclipse

[@officialdazer]

@@deejay3984 Yes, they can keep making clones, and the reason they make him is because he is passionately dedicated to serve the humans and motivated by revenge, they can't impinge on the free-will of the clones, so they picked one which was naturally motivated to do the job already and who was a great warrior and knowledgable about the planet. They will clone him and others more. It's very expensive however and not all people can be made into avatars easily. Sully was picked because his brother couldn't do it

[@blackwolf4653]

@@iniki1234 why isn‘t it about unobtanium anymore.? Now its all about an Anti Age creme wich sounds so goddamn stupid. I saw many people in the theater react to that by laughing or smirking. That was really cheap i gotta say. Im talking about the scene where the ship captain takes the shit out of the whales brain.

[@wisdumcube]

What's funny is that apparently James Cameron said there are going to be Fire Na'vi in Avatar 3. So, there really is going to be a fire level in the next movie lol

[@thedon0516]

The Way of Fire 🔥 lol

[@ntfoperative9432]

What's next? Earth and Air?

[@RADIOACTIVEYOUTH]

@@ntfoperative9432 earth was the first movie. Jake’s wife is from the Forest tribe

[@ntfoperative9432]

@@RADIOACTIVEYOUTH so, who's gonna be the true Avatar I wonder?

[@userNOTfound1-3]

I hope they didn't film with real fire

[@TheSlinkerDog]

I re-watched Avatar 1 before seeing the 2nd, and one of the main character plot points was that Jake was becoming more Na'vi and losing touch with his old self/his humanity. Quaritch says he's "gone native" and that's the entire reason for his video journals. Fast forward to the 2nd and he raised his family like they were Marines. How does that make any sense given what the first movie established?

[@jayydee3231]

True that, i noticed the forest too didn't glow that much compared to the 1st one. Like it got cheapened on creative stuff like that.

[@andrewjames8980]

Jake is also a complete moron in the film, he starts out blowing up trains and being the N'avi Osama Bin Laden, then he takes his family and flees to an island where inevitably the Sky people find him and destroy many villages/creatures. This was legitimately one of the worst movie scripts put to film in history.

[@ThibautMahringer]

It doesn't

[@duncanlutz3698]

You are thinking: stop that. Consume product and be excited for next product!

[@andezong9565]

Dude probably reverted back to being a Marine when he had to lead an insurgency against the RDA

[@agoosecalledxaro6679]

Avatar is like a really well made video game with just the cutscenes.

[@Kumagoro42]

Honestly, Subnautica has a better developed alien underwater ecosystem and makes for a richer experience.

[@ahmet_10]

Game with trash plot

[@jeneziz4450]

YES I had a moment in the theater where i was like "Hey this looks like a cutscene" LOL I also thought of Subnautica when they showed the underwater human tech.

[@WarlordRising]

...and games now make cutscenes that look more convincing than this film. It's just some film critics don't play games (or enough of them) to understand this.

[@jamesbrincefield9879]

I feel like these films are only impressive to people who haven’t played a video game since the late 80s. And the character designs are truly awful.

[@briansounalath]

Avatar Dialogue: “Bro. Bro! Bro?” And “HISSSSS!!!”

[@Kumagoro42]

If "bro" wasn't already cringeworthy, they even threw some "cuz" in there. Also, Na'vi aren't actually speaking English, we're told, but they still have an accent. Fine, but could it at least be the SAME accent, and not any random accent that every actor individually came up with, ranging from West African to East European?

[@nikbilotti9977]

@@Kumagoro42 you can even hear a dumb american accent when they speak Na'vi. The cringy "bros" and "cuz" just totally made them lose the authenitc indigenous aspect that they had in the first movie. Such a shame

[@ParsUmbra]

@@nikbilotti9977 i completely agree

[@ChillingTales12]

​@@nikbilotti9977I feel like it's to cater to gen z

[@commissarmalevich8946]

All the obvious things aside, I found one of the most problematic issues being that the movie only pushed me to root for the humans more than anything. They've written themselves into a corner as soon as they brought up the idea of humans colonizing Pandora. There is NO WAY in any conceivable fashion the full force of humanity could lose due to their tech. This is double so when they established a large base and fully autonomous drones. This eliminates the need for trained humans to perform battle functions on the front line, allowing for a near endless supply of troops. On top of that, the humans are so advanced in their biological understanding of the natives, that the full war level fighting could be done on all levels of battle. Chemical, viral, psychological, targeting the spirit trees, ect. They basically sealed their fate with this plot device. Also also...WTF was up with that bit with Spider where his adopted family was willing to kill him dead in a moments noticed when they were kid swapping! Even more so they didn't even acknowledge it!

[@newnamesameperson397]

Straight up I'm rooting for the humans because I am one also I like future techno hellscapes and it seems humanity went that route. The movie should have ended with the planet being glass. It would be no loss to humanity, we can live there because the air is toxic so glass it from orbit and crack the planet open for resources

[@abraham2172]

Surpreme technology and better weapons account for nothing if the people they try to use it are dumb as sh*t. Its the same thing that bothers me with star wars, there is no way the rebels would have any chance against the Empire, so they just make the Imperials morrons.

[@carterlittle6172]

@@newnamesameperson397y’all just rooting for the humans cuz you want to be different😂😂

[@gc3k]

1. The magnetic field on Pandora is so strong that it has floating mountains, that would severely disrupt a lot of Earth technology. 2. Humans could easily glass Pandora, but that would leave them with two habitable worlds that they destroyed. It's probably not easy to find a nearby Earth-like world that humans can live on with no protective equipment except an air filter

[@tetraxis3011]

⁠@@gc3kthe magnetic fields are only strong enough to be a problem in the Hallelujah mountains.

[@CatsMeowPaw]

It was weird seeing a healthy, normally functioning family in a Hollywood movie. Sure, the daughter had a bit of teenage angst, but everyone got along with one another. No divorced single mother arguing with dead beat dad, and kids that absolutely hate one another. This movie basically broke the typical Hollywood mold, and it was refreshing to see.

[@tickledonions9483]

This was a Fox production, not Disney. Even though the money basically goes to Disney. James Cameron is liberal anyway so Disney doesn't have to care. They already got the dumb emotions and the environmental message across.

[@vjbd2757]

@@tickledonions9483 Well Avatar 2 pretty much gets along with both political sides. The left with its environmentalism and the right for positive portrayal of fatherhood.

[@PeterParker-ff7ub]

still bad every other way.

[@solaireofastora6173]

When portraying good relationship’s makes you stand out of other movies

[@tostupidforname]

what?

[@KuldesacMedia]

This touched on a lot of my gripes with the film. It is absolutely gorgeous and it pains me that the quality of the storytelling doesn’t match. One of the elements I did enjoy was the depiction of Sully’s family. We rarely get to see healthy, loving families who look after each other and it was one of the better ways to make us feel the stakes were high. On the flip side, they completely wasted Spider’s character. I didn’t understand why he was so passively going along with the humans after spending his whole life growing up with Sully’s family. I would have liked him to be a competent character who was forced to train the humans at gunpoint but eventually started to identify with humanity’s plight and question where he belongs. Then have him finally make up his mind and betray the humans but spare his father.

[@tickledonions9483]

see, it's all emotions but no substance. The family elements are super basic which is why it can 'resonate' with many people. Of course you people don't care about movies as a form of artistic expression, you only care if it's 'relatable' or shiny.

[@raider.2099]

Ummm didn't he do that....he rescued the Colonel, left him on the other island.... and then rejoined with Sully Family.

[@KuldesacMedia]

@@raider.2099 it’s funny you say this. When I first saw it in 2D he just seemed like he was very passive and didn’t take a stand until the end. Seeing it in 3D I felt like there was a lot more nuance to the performance. Genuinely felt like I saw it with a new set of eyes. Idk what to make of that experience as a moviegoer.

[@makeshifter9018]

It's just a theory but I feel like the story is very basic intentionally, a lot of fucking money was invested to create this movie and they released it worldwide for everyone to see it hence they made the story so that no matter who sees it, it evokes the same emotion.

[@coryaw95]

@@KuldesacMedia I always take advantage of seeing things in IMAX when possible. The theater I recently went to had the upgraded laser, which immensely improves the lighting of the older IMAX venues. I agree that it's a different experience and arguably more worthwhile

[@patotive4704]

One scene i actually really liked was when neytiri was fighting the humans after her son died, idk her feelings felt very real

[@Kira-pv4xq]

N o. It was just her mad bc they killed her daughter nothing too deep.

[@madtitanthanos7898]

Remember when ppl criticised Marvel movies in the 2010s for being "shallow but pretty"? Those same ppl prolly loved this movie

[@a_tree5793]

Well yeah these movies are built around the fact their target demographic has an IQ of 17

[@GlennGasner]

I think it's more than forgetting the characters. This is constantly remembered as "the blue person movie." Everything about this experience is temporary and forgettable.

[@carterlittle6172]

It’s not that hard to remember characters. People that don’t know the characters don’t want to know the characters and don’t pay attention to the movie.

[@Anomalous_Phenomenon]

The plot can be encapsulated in the fact that 10 minutes in, the humans say “the earth is dying so we’re going to terraform this planet…” and the main bad guy says “that’s cool, I’m gonna go try and kill a single family (that will inevitably die when the planet is terraformed)” And at this point, the film’s story no longer matters in the film’s own universe

[@kmore2766]

I just saw this today, in 3d, all I could think after was... "I just sat through 3+ hours for the same movie from 2009... with some cool water" whale hunt extended was so painful I almost walked out. agree with everything said here. tech over plot. so much potential, so many unfinished story lines. copy, paste. wata looked great.

[@wingedhussar1453]

Heres my take on the movie. There is zero conflict or interest in the movie.being destroying their homeland is good enoughs start but after that the pacing is bad amd story is bad .here is my rewrite. The sky clan is flying to the water clan region once they try to land instead of being welcomed they are welcomed by arrows. Knowing there is nowhere to go they are forced to fight and storm the beaches and take over the beach ala normandy. They have a huge fight on the beach and get one leg up on the water clan by capturing with flying creatures one of the important characters of the water clan a female chief. The battle subdies and the next night the sky clan have the upper hand and wait for the water clan to submit to let the sky clan onto the beachy lands as their chief is in their hands.they meet on the beach with sky clan exclaiming that they own the beaches now and to let them join together. The water clan general meet and puts his arm on the sky clan main character and tells them this is not the sky here this is the way of the water. At this time he puts his arms up and water navi using their underwater creatures dive from under the water and like navy seals take their soldiers hostage aswell and now the water clan has the upper hand. With the chaos ongoing the water clan general points down and now the sky clan warriors are being drowned. With no way out the sky clan main character falls to his knees and gives in and is forced to release the water chief. Now the water clan captures all the sky navy and this is how the plot revolves around the sky navy living among the water clan but it being a very uncomftorbale situation. The water navi are only keeping the sky navi alive for their flying creatures and want to learn the way of the sky as they know the humans attacks need more firepower to stop them.this is where we get the wild life underwater moments where both clan try to teach the sky clan about their ways. The plot at this time is about the same but includes the water clans dilmea of just getting rid of the invading clan and keeping their flying creatures for themselves but they cant connect to them as the sky clan can. In the ensuing battle toward the end the sky clan main character connects with the way of the water and has the flying creatures able to become like flying fish and dive underwater aswell as fly and evade the bullets and then the battle ends this way with the flying creatures using the way of the water now.the battle is over and both clans win . i think this is exactly would add some excitment to the movie and conflict that was needed in this boring movie. All i could think of when watvhing the movie was why is there no conflict this is so unrealstic.

[@robertturni2845]

The plot is insanely weak and the movie feels like it has no stakes because even though we are shown that human weapons are incredibly powerful, humans are well trained, and humans often have the advantage in numbers whenever there is any conflict it’s an overwhelming Navee victory.

[@abraham2172]

Remember when Spider (the bad guys son) destroyed the command ship by pushing some buttons on the bridge right in front of the human officers? They barely reacted to it althoug they could have easily stopp him, and afterwards, they just took him with them like nothing happened. I couldnt believe my eyes.

[@justsomeawesomeperson6396]

Compared to the original avatar, the new one was a huge letdown. Even the setting just felt like going to the beach.

[@engineer0239]

The entire plot basically: Humans come back, Antagonist is cloned, Sullys family flees to different tribe to hide, they get bullied and have to earn their acceptance, they dive a lot, Sullys kid makes friends with a whale, humans hunt whales, they capture Sully's kids a bunch of times, whale to the rescue, navi win. The End.

[@despooked]

Awesome. This is why it's breaking records all over the world. It's similar to Top Gun. US Air Force needs to execute a mission. Brings back Maverick. Maverick trains new pilots. Maverick + new pilots succeed. The End. That's all the plot you need to make a great movie that will be loved by audiences.

[@gani4219]

@@despooked Top Gun maverick was alot better than avatar 2 lol and i watched avatar2 in cinema

[@leob4403]

@@despooked an overhyped piece of trash that will be loved by the easily manipulated herd of sheeple you mean

[@motor4X4kombat]

@@gani4219 and was shorted and use actual planes to shot the action scenes insted of cgi everything

[@mysryuza]

Basically

[@mrapollo13]

The cop out of "There's nothing wrong with a simple story" is so annoying because it's not that it's just a simple story, it's a poorly written story. The movie is extremely beautiful and I found myself continuously being pulled out of the the impressiveness of it's beauty by bad dialog and macguffins being introduced just to drag the story along. There were moments in the movie that were clearly meant to be sad or serious and I couldn't help myself from laughing watching them because the plot hadn't earned that reaction from the audience

[@augustlavdal6187]

Exactly! Also none of the actions the kids make have consequenses, besides the one that kills one of them. And one kid get's left alone outside the reef, meets the wale and after 30 seconds he speaks whalish. One of the girls is a small EWA and has done nothing to deserve it she is just gifted.. cool, typical family problems and small fights between the boys, the diolog is so bland and boring, Jake has to rescue his (quite stupid) kids time and time again, everybody keeps doing heroic acts and eventually heroic acts don't feel heroic anymore, nobody gets hurt by consequenses but one kid and all the avatars on the evil side die. I can only remember one Avatar dying to the humans, and that was the one in the family. And the kids keep talking english slang like "You okay bro? Bro you good?" Why??? I get it they are talking like avatars, but the way they use it sounds so stupid sometimes. Why not find more interesting words to use for Avatars? Remember the first movie, how there was corruption, consequences, lots of new animals that were wild, It felt like EWA was watching, human researchers trying to put sense into the millatary, both good and bad humans, angry but primetive Avatars, actions did sometimes lead to death of favored caracters, a very accurate representasion of how animals might feel when we take down the forest, Jake had to earn trust both in animals, humans and Avatars. I actually cried when the big war broke out and lots of my fav characters died. In Avatar 2 I did not care for one caracter beacuse it was all so messy and the caracters did not earn or mean anything to me. All the kids of both families seemed really stupid. Where was the trash in the ochean? We all know how humans love to throw trash in the ochean. Man the people who made this move were not creative nor did they care to explain a lot.

[@El3mental1]

A simple 3 hour save-my-family story yet I was captivated the entire time. People just like to see different things in movies. Go watch inception or something

[@KingkuntaGG]

@@El3mental1 Your right people enjoy watching different things. But it’s not fair to say go watch another movie when they clearly loved the first one. I enjoyed the spectacle but I turned my brain off to the plot after kiris seizure mcguffin. Fun movie with poor writing, why can’t more people admit that?

[@failedevolution4396]

@@KingkuntaGG I loved the first film and still like it more than this one. However story aside this is an expansion on the world I fell in love with in the first film. I’m happy to see Jake be a father to his kids, the ongoing war between humans and Navi, hell I’m just happy to be back on Pandora and for a film like this the story didn’t bother me all too much. However supposedly these first 2 films are to act as building blocks for the next few which should have better narratives.

[@KingkuntaGG]

@@failedevolution4396 I loved the first film as well but couldn’t help thinking a little more critically about this one as I’m older now. Definitely gonna just get blasted off an edible for the next film💀.

[@carddealer776]

If there was one less child, there would be more room the flesh out the other 3 l, giving them deeper personalities and letting the audience build deeper bonds with them, and making the final scene a bit more heavy hitting

[@hoongmoopak1083]

Rule of 3!

[@nicoloclementi1506]

You raised a valid point at the end of the review, talking about how the story is the only thing that makes a film good, and everything else is complementary. Aristotle, talking about theatrical plays, pretty much said the same thing: he talked about the plot and the entwining being the most important parts of a theatrical work, and everything else (the costumes, the actors, the music) came after. I’m not that radical, but Aristotle believed that a single guy dressed in regular Ancient Greek clothes could just walk on stage, sit on a stool and start reading the story out loud. And it would have been such as good because it’s the story that matters at the end of the day.

[@billykhoabillykhoa7844]

That's because Aristotle haven't seen Avatar in 3D yet.

[@Fluffy6555]

Aristotle had some interesting things to say, but Poetics goes too far on that position in my opinion. He believed hearing someone tell the story should elicit the same experience as watching it because the story is that powerful, which is dumb. Contemporary theatre pieces have gone out of their way to explore the aesthetics of the theatre experience and how they can tell their own sort of story. Even Shakespeare prioritised character over plot.

[@fabioviti7384]

@@Fluffy6555 Sadly aristotle's point isn't possible in modern day theatre, it was customary for greeks to play womans using guys with masks... guys with masks!. greek theater had little to no ahestetic so when something has a pretty bad/mediocre story but an absolutely incredible aesthetic for the greeks that was shit since incredible aesthetic were good costumes... and some ropes, avatar 2 is what incredible aesthetic is for us; they couldn''t even THINK this

[@Malicia-scunt]

Aristotle was a philistine. He would probably have loved Kim Kardashians home decor.

[@fabioviti7384]

@@Malicia-scunt Yeah, All of Aristotle's biggest works are A- not up with time (all his fucking critics on theater when technique was "damn, the singer is kinda good" or "wow, they even got a red dress this time" as today we have actual virtual real life!) B- completely false (DEMOCRITUS WAS RIGHT) C- purely usefull in a logic manner in which we have to presume he's right to even get what he says (i love metà phisics and philosophy but at least plato tried!)

[@General_Belu]

I hate the way they give out their message. Humans and technological development = bad Navi and naturism = good The bad guys have no goodness whatsoever And the good guys are pure angles who have never committed a crime in their life People forget that this was for humanity’s survival. People forget that Jake was meant to negotiate on humanity’s behalf, but he betrayed humanity just because he fell in love with blue girl. The movie said that it’s impossible for a modern technology driven world to coexist with Mother Nature. They pottery nature as the ultimate thing, when it isn’t. They pottery the natives as the ultimate things when they aren’t. Also, it’s stupid. How would humanity even let this happen in the first place. Either that, or just go all Fallout. It would make sense if Earth were alive and well, or Mars had been terraformed, and it was just humans being greedy and wanting more resources and territory. This though? Nope!

[@tetraxis3011]

Exactly. Even the IRL European had some justifiable motivations behind colonizing America. The Ottomans were being a threat and were hampering trade with the far east.

[@comedylyfe2113]

Humanity sucks

[@Thunderblock7889]

​​@@comedylyfe2113 Humanity rocks. For the emperor!!!!!!

[@idaslpdhr]

Just watched it, 3 and a half hours I will NEVER get back, I lost the will to live, a bunch of DOO DOO

[@chanceyporter6178]

I love the nickname for the white savior trope mighty whitey its so funny for some reason

[@thisguydan]

It sounds like what I was worried it would be: a tech demo with a safe, simple story. However, it's going to get a lot of praise because the bar is SO LOW these days with big budget films that a very safe, basic, relatable story is an improvement.

[@soldier2262]

well its not bad not even a mess it was it supposed to be but guess some people dont know what avater 2009 was about?

[@paulatreides1354]

the story is more deeper than that , just people cannot grasp all the meta , the themes and references to myth in the movie , sure it's packaged as a simple ; manichean story ...but the subtext and layers are there

[@oogskskfn]

@@paulatreides1354 my guy it’s a rehash of the first movie with some added young adult film cliches so the plot can even work. Half the scenes are repeated scenes from earlier in the film and the first movie

[@tonydanatop4912]

@@soldier2262 I thought it was a blunt metaphor for imperialism and indigenous people. And by my reckoning this one is more of the same but with a very small amount of added Nuance. Not that I didn’t enjoy this one it’s just again…the bar was low.

[@Darkstar_Dayne]

@@paulatreides1354 Bro you watch movies for social commentary? Just watch CNN or something cuz most people watch them as an escape from the reality

[@aldrinmilespartosa1578]

Avatar is basically an attempt of baking a cake but the cook just buy the highest quality icing and nothing else.

[@TheSucidalpanda]

They put gold leaf on a lil debbie treat.

[@thefattesthagrid]

I like icing...

[@ganonjesuschrist2053]

Sounds good to me…. And apparently everyone else

[@kool4209]

Thats all Avatar ever was. Eye candy. No substance

[@appropriate-channelname3049]

I don't know man James Cameron now has three of the 5 top grossing films of all time. I mean if it's so bad why don't you make something?

[@thetarasbulba1]

8:20 Agree completely. The coming of age of CGI was wonderful for the medium, but it seems like many have forgotten that the story is what is worth conveying. The visuals are supposed to enhance the story, not be the main attraction! So many movies with potential that just manage to be mediocre because not enough thought was given to the story!

[@mingyuhuang8944]

This movie is the perfect example of looking pretty but very little substance. It's one of those movies you watch once with your friends and have a potentially good time watching it, but forget about how shallow the movie was and after the movie ends you feel like you watched something but nothing at all. Maybe it'll be a very fun watch for those under 15 years old.

[@randomly_random_0]

as if you understand very complex plots eh? I doubt.

[@Ravn7]

You missed the point

[@Merryianna]

r/iamverysmart.

[@ophanimangel3143]

@@Ravn7 This movie has levels of dumb Star Wars prequel dialogue mixed with Morbius kind of character development. Watch it in 2D and see if these even hold up cause I know people are more or less enraptured by the stunning stellar visuals than anything else. Princess Mononoke and Nausicaa beat these movies in terms of storytelling and messages by a mile. Lord of the Rings even Atlantis Lost Empire have simple stories but are told more interestingly than these Avatar series.

[@ophanimangel3143]

@@Merryianna And you’re a dummy to think this turd is cinema. Congrats.

[@mhaze210]

It was weird seeing a CGI family that kept going "YO BRO!!!" "WHAT UP CUZ?"

[@augustlavdal6187]

Yeah, and like the first movie had such cool Avatar diolog. Like it sounded like "Brother, I will stand with you." Like, I thought the Avatar language was more: less talk, more meaning. Now it just seems like a normal family with slang from LA. UUUUUHH! Whyyy? Why not make the kids more badass and smart instead of dumb. They grow up in the wild, yet they are captured 8 times. Wtf?

[@ChillingTales12]

The actors themselves are teenagers

[@TheLittlePlatoon]

This is one of those times when I accuse you of being too kind. And you weren’t even that kind. (Also, Gollum looks better than almost everything in this film.)

[@TheMovieCynic]

Maybe being on vacation while writing this made me a little nicer than normal?

[@suezcontours6653]

@@TheMovieCynic 15:58 Colonialism isn't good, though.. They keep indigenous countries in a state of dependence on purpose. If USA freed themselves and celebrate independence day every year then WHY on Earth do the sh*t on others for wanting the same freedom from that same USA that freed itself from Britain?

[@TheMovieCynic]

A judgment on colonialism wasn’t why I brought up the subject in the video. It was to laugh at having an anti-colonialism message in a white savior movie.

[@ophanimangel3143]

@@suezcontours6653 Dune has better story about both colonialism and white saviour themes than this trite kiddie pleasing film. This movie is equivalent of eating a McDonald meal.

[@suezcontours6653]

@@ophanimangel3143 Both are written by white men. Take it up with them

[@rebellious_red7123]

I honestly forgot this film was in development until a month or two before release. And my first thought was “why?” from what I remember the first film ended fairly well: the hero gets the girl, repels the invaders and becomes one of them. In my opinion there wasn’t much of a reason to return to the world of pandora it didn’t need a sequel. If they wanted to shake things up if Earth has been dying for however long in the story then finally show Earth collapsing. Forcing humans in a desperate situation to find a new home and pandora is a reluctant option because of what happened prior; this wouldn’t be a military operation but a humanitarian effort to resettle humanity with security forces attached. By having the story deal with the thematic undertones of displacement, refugees and the rippling effects of natural disasters and war this forces the protagonist into a middle man position between humanity and the Na’vi to ensure peace and coexistence instead of the humans (bad) and the Na’vi (good). But show the wounds still remain in the form of both sides have suffered at each other’s hand. Maybe certain Na’vi tribes that greatly suffered in the prior conflict have become more war-like and vengeful. The human settlers who have lost friends and loved ones in the prior film have a grudge towards the Na’vi so it shows a much more morally gray angle of the narrative where neither side is good or evil. However it would be a story of survival through cooperation, coexistence and forgiveness.

[@peachcloudz]

No can do cause that would require actual effort be put into the writing 😂 instead they would rather bait us with beautiful visuals and give us a hollow and forgettable surface-level experience. Festive!

[@rebellious_red7123]

@@peachcloudz exactly my thoughts I feel for anyone who legit waited in excitement for almost two decades for this film only to get this.

[@chaddaddywarden4349]

NO HUMANS BAD, NAVI GOOD. DONT USE YOUR BRAIN AND ACTUALLY TRY TO COME UP WITH A WELL-WRITTEN STORY

[@chaddaddywarden4349]

@@dianashepherd3241 Cameron has become obsessed with pushing the limit of special effects and is all spectacle over script and making an entertaining theater experience for the last 30 years or so

[@thegatewaytoprestige]

$2Billion later…

[@SolidMGSnake]

James Cameron needs to work on something else. Seriously.. Avatar, while a beautiful world, I honestly don't care about it anymore.

[@skdKitsune]

As someone who unitonically likes the first movie and watches it once a year (heresy, I know), I was pretty let down. The visuals are stunning, as expected, but the story is the very same ctrl-c, ctrl-v. Even has the SAME villain with stupid motivations. The only different thing were the kids and they made the film objectively worse. You had 13 years to work on an at least serviceable story, man...

[@koopa5504]

You should definitely watch some better movies man..

[@aliensoup2420]

I rewatch "Prometheus" and "Avatar" at least once a year simply for the eye-candy. When I want great moments in acting I watch "The Godfather" and "Network". The seventies was a great decade for movies.

[@jayvfx.]

@CertifiedFloppa Second its gona be the same villian all over again lmao. another copy paste thatll make billions

[@ChurchoftheLatterDayShrek]

Personally I really enjoyed this movie. Am very interested to see how the third one and how things play out

[@leob4403]

@Supreme Dob honestly both movies are bad

[@_rune]

@@leob4403avatar isn’t bad lol. ur standards are unreal if u consider it a bad movie

[@leob4403]

@@_rune that stupid boy Spider with his Tarzan outfit was enough for me to want to punch a hole through the screen

[@_rune]

@@leob4403 LMFAO

[@eerohughes]

For me it's one of the worst movies I've seen in a very long time

[@hpfusion8842]

The movie was good, i just had issues with the middle section, we spent sooo long with the water tribe and yet not all of the time spent with them was paid off, we hardly saw them fight in the end, we didnt even see the sons of the chief of tribe fight or do anything yet we had spent a bit of time with them showing their "rivalry" with Jake Sullys sons

[@yuppymike]

I thought the same thing. A good hour learning about the water tribe and the finale was the Sully family vs the bad guys.

[@hexahedronhead7516]

I was genuinely confused about where the literal army of water people went in the third act. They were all battling and then they just were gone. Made 0 sense

[@jihadp8762]

@@hexahedronhead7516 the comment I was looking for just like you where they just disappear 🫠 not even when his son died they just don't show they were helping them . avatar 2009 was enough really it was 3 hour of nothing.

[@sonasome586]

the middle section of the movie with the water tribe does slow down but the reasoning is simple that part of the story is meant for the characters adaption it shows that even though there all one race they have significant differences yet it also shows that the kids of the 2 main families in the movies are more alike than originally thought. and again the reason you didnt see a huge navi vs human fight like the first movie is because this movie is more focused on a family drama than a massive action sequence that's why you follow jake and neytiris family through the fight and not a huge fight.

[@hpfusion8842]

@@sonasome586 ur not wrong and i understand that, it still doesnt take away that it still felt slightly too dragged out. Could have been reduced by a good 15 / 20 mins and it would have had the same emotional impact and i get the end fight doesnt have to be like first movie as you said they are definitely setting up for future movies and in one of them i can see all of the tribes from water to woods teaming up against humans but in the end of this movie it still would have been nice to see more of the water tribe in the final fight instead of disappearing, especially when the daughter of the chief was captured. He never checked himself if she was rescued etc

[@shelleyt4113]

100% agree. I watched the first 15 minutes last night with my husband and we kept pausing the movie, thinking that we skipped an hour in. I didn’t care about the characters and the story. I can’t imagine watching 3 hours in a cinema.

[@endor8witch]

i was legit confused by the motivations of the humans returning. and it feels strange as well that we don't get that woven more into the story. we dont get to understand what the humans are coming from by invading. it's just "insert old villans and let the viewers connect the dots from last movie" honestly given how this is a disney franchise, a lot of the shots and scenes were probably demanded by disney so they can recreate it for the theme park

[@chrisfratz]

Spoilers for the movie But they want the juices from the whale's brain which stops a person from aging. Which they can sell for 80 mil a vile. Quaritch is there because he wants to kill Jake for basically commuting treason against the human species in the first movie, and the Na'vi are stealing weapons and supplies from the humans to fight back.

[@rebellious_red7123]

It really felt out of place to me too there was no reason for humans to return unless they were absolutely desperate as in their survival depended on it. But it was the same plot as before humans come to a new world to exploit of its resources. I would have enjoyed the film more if say between the events of the films earth was rendered a barren war-torn wasteland as they first implied in the first film “the earth is dying” which forced the remnants of humanity into the stars to find a new home and pandora is a reluctant choice due to prior events. It would be less of corporate driven operation and more of a humanitarian effort.

[@Starlit43]

They said it the beginning of the movie why. You weren’t listening.

[@rot0s]

They literally said it. Earth is dying and they are trying to make pandora a new earth for humans.

[@sonasome586]

ok i disagree completely the humans were always gonna comeback first you think that since they were forced of the planet the humans were just gonna leave for good the whole reason in the first movie the humans were mining for unobtanium was because earth had run out of resources, and yes they had motivation to coming back other than revenge they stated it completely they need to creat a settlement cause earth is becoming inhabitable and pandora is the next best place which follows the first movie pretty well. the reason they go after jake is because he started an insurgence group and was destroying supply routes. so the general states to quartich that they need the insurgents to stop and the whole reason they have been so affective at stealing the supplies is because jakes knowledge of how human tech works. sooooo that leads to quartich being sent to kill jake the leader of the insurgents.

[@baverfjant]

I was pretty close to laughing out loud in the theater when the water Na'Vi chieftain basically said "They used to kill the whales way out there where we couldn't see it. But now they do it right here and that's terrible, we go to war!"

[@Kumagoro42]

Also noteworthy: "We can't condone friendship with this whale that killed to defend its tribe, it's unacceptable. Except when we (and the celebrated guerrilla leader we're giving shelter to) do exactly the same".

[@potmeetkettle]

@@Kumagoro42 i understood the story to be that the whales used to kill each other, but then swore not to, and jake’s son’s whale was assumed to be the one who broke the code, although it wasn’t true. “The great balance” requires killing, but not necessarily killing your own kind. That’s how i understood it anyways, could be wrong

[@CelticStoryteller]

Well humans only act much if they are affected. Look at climate change, for example. No one is shutting down thousands of oil companies across the world in a frantic panic because climate change is 'over the horizon'. Psychology my brother

[@ew8462]

I know this response is late but know what bothered me about the scene of the sea leader scolding the children for going near that whale? HOW DID HE KNOW THEY WENT NEAR THE WHALE? Who told him that one of the kinds bonded to the whale? The movie is 3 hours long but it skips these important transition elements.@@Kumagoro42

[@baverfjant]

@@Kumagoro42And let's not forget that said celebrated guerilla leader just left his tribe cause he felt guilty about putting them in danger. Now he's with the water Na'vi and getting them killed, that's cool though.

[@jem7636]

I remember Terminator. Every action and every word moved the plot forward. With this movie I had to leave to use the restroom midway through and didn't bother to ask my friend what happened when I was away. Cutting half the film would have improved it.

[@АлексейМомот-щ7о]

It already has barebones plot, cutting it in half would just remove the film 💀

[@randomly_random_0]

I don't get the hype around Terminator. I love Cameron but after watching Terminator, it's cringe too. probably because it's made in the 80s.

[@officialdazer]

Did you know James Cameron designed the film in that way so you could go to the bathroom and not miss anything? So yeah, only a fuckin idiot like you would actually complain that they had to go to the toilet and it didn't ruin their entire experience of the film. I'm sure that is what we all were after "Oh I can't wait to go to the toilet and miss a really important part".... Jesus Christ do this world a favour and kill us all

[@LucasDiblasio]

@@randomly_random_0 Terminator 1 and 2 are ten times better than Avatar 2.

[@personaldove]

Then this movie was not your type. Its better you stick to Marvel and modern action movies that go fast.

[@darkgreen9360]

I agree with everything you said except the part where you said James Cameron can write marines. The whole movie I kept asking myself “these guys call themselves marines?”. Seriously, why would the marine corps permit the colonel to go out into enemy territory with a six man fireteam, no support assets and no other objective other to find Jake Sully just so he can get revenge for being killed 10 years ago? To make it worse I found it annoying how they try so hard to be marines, the “hoorah” (that’s not actually how it’s pronounced) and the “get some” parts really made me slap my own face in disappointment. I was in the army and did a lot of training with marines and never once did I hear a marine say “get some”. Not to mention, these “marines” got outsmarted by children multiple times, seem to have zero proficiency with firearms as they can’t seem to hit anything and just overall sucked in any combat encounter. They displayed zero signs of being professional, tactical, disciplined, dedicated combat killers.

[@nigelsalvador]

The one thing I enjoyed about the first Avatar was Stephen Lang's portrayal of Colonel Miles Quaritch, his speech to introduce the newbies to Pandora really stood out for me, and he was again the stand out in this movie.

[@macgyversmacbook1861]

Same! I don’t care if he’s one dimensional, him running out without a mask was badass the first movie

[@aliensoup2420]

@@macgyversmacbook1861 There is a great deleted scene in which the Administrator Parker makes a veiled threat against Quaritch for overstepping his authority, and Quaritch violently pins him against the wall and says, "You're a long way from home". It may have been too over-the-top for the plot, but it sent shivers down my spine.

[@TheManorBeast]

Man do you have a feast of films you'll love if you like brain dead coffee swilling oorah colonels who s prime function is to kill stuff

[@5552-d8b]

Quaritch reminds me of vegeta from dbz. Prideful and have no regard for others. Till later when vegeta character progression he starts to slowly care about others

[@nigelsalvador]

@@5552-d8b I'm not familiar with that reference.

[@Empirehog]

Kiri not being able to connect to Eywa is likely something that will be importing in one of the two additional Avatar movies that James Cameron has planned. My personal belief is that Kiri is a part of Eywa and her plugging into her own network is the same as what we call a Network Feedback Loop. She doesn't need to connect to the tree because she essentially is part of Eywa and is able to connect to all living entities on Pandora anyway.

[@xensonar9652]

She might find a new way to connect. Maybe go on a heroes journey and discover it within herself.

[@HD_Hates]

Perhaps Kiri is the physical manifestation of Eywa.

[@mace7754]

No she IS eywa..

[@blackoutnow]

Through its whole runtime Avatar 2 changed from - BORING - to - STUPID - to - BORING - and back to - STUPID. Avatar 2 was even worse than 1.

[@Soulfly415]

"... he was the forerunner of making tridimensional female action heroes" - shows Ellen Ripley in Aliens, a character who debuted 7 years earlier, in Ridley Scott's Alien. Cameron didn't invent that character, nor was he the forerunner of making good female action heroes... with or without Sarah Connor.

[@Ks3N]

I'm glad many of us agree Avatar 2 stupid

[@Dylan-yh3yk]

I watched it, hated it, couldn’t believe that basically everyone disagrees and LOVES it. I think I’m just Stan Marsh now, all I see is shit. Critic channels I usually love think this movie is great, I had to deep search to find people who agree that it sucked

[@Kernwadi]

"Objectivity is objective, in my subjectively subjective opinion." -Bilbo Baggins

[@user-ky8du8lk7l]

"Come back any time, young man." -your mom

[@getobbl]

half way through i just wanted to go home 😭😭😭 i was falling asleep in the cinema

[@leob4403]

I wish I could have slept, but the booming surround sound kept me awake, I left after about 2 hours, couldnt take it anymore, it was torture

[@Kumagoro42]

When the dying kid said "I want to go home", someone in the theater yelled "Me too!"

[@jayxtacee5695]

I watched Avatar twice, when it came out in 2009 and 10 years later in 2019..and the only scene I remember was Sigourney Weaver's character saying 'They're just pissing on us without even giving us the courtesy of calling it rain'

[@theredranger9723]

LoL you probably remember that SNL skit when they did that line.

[@officialdazer]

Well that is pretty good memory honestly after not seeing a film for over a decade

[@terrorindu]

I think Avatar does go deep, people just won't look into Eywa, the people, the connections between all living things etc... This movie was with me when I was a kid and I've watched all sorts of movies, Avatar 2 being by far my favourite visually, but the first Avatar movie will always have my heart as they thought of everything, from the animal's teeth being black due to the natural carbon fiber in their bones to the planet literally being alive. I think the reason I love it so much is because I love anything to do with nature and such. But I do understand other people's opinions on the movies.

[@AlphaCentauri24]

I bet you find Twilight deep too.

[@eg-draw]

Did you watch Disney's Pocahontas? Try it next time

[@matane2465]

None of that matters if you don't have a good story.

[@alsy6813]

I was eight when I first saw avatar, and it was the first adult movie I ever experienced -- and I fell in love with it, completely. It shaped my interests and who I ended up being as a person, and I didn't care about any problem anyone could see with the plot -- I loved it, and still do. Watching avatar 2 made me sad that I'm no longer a child. I wish to love it just as much, to get lost in the world just as much... But, sadly, I can't. I loved the visuals, and found the plot passable. The first avatar is still my favourite movie of all time, even if I'm biased.

[@adventurouspeach]

I honestly think films like the lorax, and princess mononoke do a better job at discussing the connection of living things and taking care of the land As said here while it has some good themes it isnt particularly deep And it certainly doesn't have near 3 hours of run time worth of deep or connections It has moments at best

[@ovoxo7835]

this movie was extremely boring not to mention ppl just move on fast and they simply took too long

[@Mr.Heller]

The only thing I remember about Avatar 1, is that the dude betrayed his whole species for some blue cheeks.

[@jimmyrecard6021]

Probably the best part of this movie was the display of the futuristic weapons technology and things like that, it was pretty well designed and displayed.

[@_Velqine_]

I found the death of that mother whale and its child more sad than the death of jakes son☠️

[@yume5338]

While the story is the weakest part of this movie, I found myself invested in Spider and Quaritch more than any other characters to be honest. Everyone else was just so one dimensional, predictable and nothing we haven't seen before time and time again in cinema. Having the villain actually show an emotion other than hatred or anger even once is always miles better than them being basically a plot-driven robot that's only programming is to "act evil and bad", although throughout most of the film Quartich is like this there are moments where you can see him question himself when Spider is around. Other than that the visuals and soundtrack are quite good.

[@ophanimangel3143]

The whale Payacan had better arc than all of Sully’s vanilla blue children 😂. Like, please give me weird, eccentric even outlandish that should at least stand out from among them but nooo they went with generic 2D vanilla treatment instead. True about Spider and the humans lol they kept me going along with the story.

[@slent5346]

I almost fell asleep i the theater

[@MM-pv5tp]

How was the storytelling bad? I don’t cry that easily, but that film made me cry.

[@slent5346]

@@MM-pv5tp because it was the same as the first one. And the first ones story was really terrible since it isn't even original by this point. Sure it might be simple but I have heard this story so many times it just is so god damn predictable what is actually gonna happen.

[@leob4403]

@@slent5346 I would have fallen asleep but the booming surround sound startled me awake

[@doubllechief6926]

I mostly found myself drifting during this and reengaging when something beautiful came on screen. I actually found the narrative in the first one to have much more to latch onto: the motivations were more believable, stakes more clearly defined, characters were more likeable and some of them even had archs. Definitely wouldn’t be down for 3rd unless they offer something more in the character and story department.

[@JohnDoe-em2xd]

Well said and agreed

[@sunsetskye483]

Characters definitely felt more real in the first one. Almost everyone had believable motivations and acted like real people

[@Malicia-scunt]

Cameron said these first two were building the world and roots of the story. From now on the direction will be totally different and he said the best is yet to come.

[@failedevolution4396]

@@dianashepherd3241 only gripe I have is your point where Jake runs to the beach. The whole film he is shown to care about the safety of his family more than anything else. Him leaving his clan under the excuse to “protect the people” was a lie that Jake and Neytiri told themselves. Only at the end of the movie after his oldest son’s death does he realize that this conflict isn’t something he can run from and he needs to fight back. Other than that I do agree on your other point with the final battle.

[@GlennGasner]

Thank you for making this. I couldn't make it through Avatar 2. It's just too boring. The visuals are nice, but an hour of those visuals was more than enough. Your summary has MUCH more character than the movie did.

[@Vats144]

Am I the only one that actually wasn’t crazy about the special effects? For me, the quality of the CGI was “too good” in the sense that it looked very fake. Movements were too smooth, people were too agile, it just all seemed like a cutscene in a video game. Oddly enough in the first Avatar, the effects were good enough to look realistic (ish) but not SO good that it crossed into the uncanny valley. The landscape never felt real to me. Just like a really pretty computer program.

[@kreaturekate1125]

I felt the same way and people kept saying that it took a little to adjust but I never did and I feel like you shouldn't have to adjust to a movie for it to look good or real, that shouldn't be how a movie works.

[@yeonake]

Yes! The cgi in the first 13 minutes were choppy and looked as if they had used a green screen

[@jemazondo9331]

I was thoroughly entertained the whole time. I guess if I dedicated time to find things I didnt like, I would find them but to say the flaws are insults? Thats a little over the top.

[@Meop79]

Enjoy the pretty flashing lights, don't think.

[@jemazondo9331]

@@Meop79 What am I supposed to do? Force myself to join the circle jerk of cynicism just for the sake of it? He makes great points but I didn’t catch these things WHILE I WAS WATCHING it. Sometimes I do but for this I didn’t. Now after the fact, I’m supposed to turn around and say, “oh wait, now I hate it because of a YT video”? 🥴

[@Meop79]

@@jemazondo9331 did you catch that the movie includes bestiality?

[@devildolphin2102]

We spent an hour of the movie Watching the Ocean and ogling fish. I can do that In real life. And guess what the Humans and Quaritch suffered and didn’t get any depth so Avatar is still black and white we hate humanity and Technology while using billions to film life like cgi.

[@WanderlustZero]

Seemed to me that all the things he didn't like (the 'plot holes') were clearly things meant to become relevant in the sequels. There's an argument to made against middle-of-series-films, but tis wasn't it

[@ZeldasMask]

Nah sorry but I liked avatar, maybe less ‘explosions and more story’ but otherwise I loved it

[@mickthetic]

He’s just a bitter asshole how could you not love this movie for the designs alone

[@shadowfallenable]

I just didnt understand WTF they run away from the fire (on the ocean), and they all went back inside the ship, just to repeat Titanic scenes!! 🤷‍♂️ #PrettyMess is 100% Accurate.

[@TopHat_]

Because the fire was moving towards them, why the hell would you swim too a fire?

[@shadowfallenable]

@@TopHat_ 1) Swim (water) 2) Fire above (the ocean surface) 3) They ALL had water creatures (Hell one of them even had a Killerwhale-creature). 4)WTF all those water tribes left before the fight was completely over!?

[@melox130]

Repeating scenes ? Hmm i thought the same , i also saw far too many similarities to the first 30 minutes of The Patriot.

[@TopHat_]

@@shadowfallenable they can't swim well and also, if you didn't know, fire can burn underwater, also I don't know why the water tribe would flee, and also the "killer whale" you are talking about is still recovering after fighting off almost the whole enemies people, get better facts dumbass

[@kreaturekate1125]

@@TopHat_ fire doesn't burn underwater, literally if they just swam under it they would have been fine, the whole movie they learned how to swim and hold their breath but now they can't swim what looked to be 20 or 30 feet underwater to get away?

[@zarabee2880]

What about the planet of the apes trilogy? Fricking chefs kiss of a trilogy, haven’t cared about a CGI character so much for years, Andy Serkis shines it’s so beautiful

[@BOSS_1417]

Absolutely Impeccable CGI Solid plot Matt Reeves for the win!

[@MS-ii1sv]

Yeah. That's the standard for CGI character. These avatar things look like shit.

[@bentalls85]

Saw it today, I felt my soul slowly leaving my body during the final stretch of the movie.. I had to force myself to find amusing moments. One such moment was when I thought to myself, ----SPOILERS--- Imagine being one of the sea villagers, you are vandalized and interrogated by A- Normal clothed humans wearing metal bits that make em as tall as you B- Navi looking creatures wearing strange sunglasses and wielding strange weapons, like the first two ok but C-- A small regular human wearing nothing but a loincloth, has weird blue tattoos all around, speaking fully fluent Navi.. Wouldn't you be like who the f**ck is this creature? I cracked myself up thinking about that for a good 15 minutes.

[@MM-pv5tp]

You seem like a hard person to please. Tell me, how WASN’T the film amusing? I don’t cry that easily, but that film made me cry.

[@leob4403]

@@MM-pv5tp this film was pure torture to sit through. Theres not a single line of dialogue that was good

[@MM-pv5tp]

@@leob4403 Elaborate

[@leob4403]

@@MM-pv5tp the characters were so bad. I mean compare to some.more memorable Cameron characters like Terminator, Aliens and so on. These blue smurfs all looked the same and were so uninteresting, they had no personality

[@lim3rrence]

no, it was comics.

[@kyleg1464]

Not to disagree with your point about Cameron writing better dialogue before Titanic, but "I remember the first time I got shot out of a cannon" was an improv by Tom Arnold, not a Cameron line.

[@SamWh1t3]

The plot point of her connecting to eywa definitely comes back just not with dialogue. Her character literally saves the day multiple times near the end of the film by controlling her environment with the powers that ey a gave her

[@SamWh1t3]

Whoever made this video clearly didn’t pay attention well

[@grenha8]

@@SamWh1t3 not only that but he dont know the basic name of the characters. its the problem of clout nowadays speak trash about something trend XD

[@KingkuntaGG]

@@SamWh1t3 Her character saves the day but it makes no sense. Why is kiri so connected? Why does she have a seizure when she asks about her dad? Why does this never come back up? Why do they never tell her she could fucking die if she connects in the sea again? Her entire character is one giant mcguffin. Stop making excuses for poor writing.

[@inthe_among_us]

@@KingkuntaGG wait a sec so you are telling, they were supposed to introduce the chr, all the characterstics, nuances, self discoveries & mysteries literally everything in just one movie. Call it a day and still bland for 3 more movies doing nothing new to explain or explore of character. ig they intentionally left some mystery to tweak some interest of audience in upcoming movies. "Why do they never tell her she could fucking die if she connects in the sea again? " it's not that easy, children may look like a tell & move on sht but they aren't. Do u really think that would have stopped her ? take loak for example and think bruhh

[@KingkuntaGG]

@@inthe_among_us No I don’t think it would have stopped her but it would have been a beautiful father daughter moment. When Jake gets this piece of information there’s so much emotion in his voice but then it never comes back up. I don’t think anyone even asked kiri if she was all right after the seizure. They just move on like it never happened. The entire scene just served as a way for the general to find them. Also I’d don’t think asking for character nuances and self discoveries is to much in a fucking 3 hour movie. Kiri and the son who survived are the only characters who slightly develop across the movie.

[@Bitminute]

After viewing Avatar 2, I found it to be a typical American movie where young protagonists struggle to protect their family, accompanied by weak dialogue such as 'bro.' The inclusion of a Tarzan-like character felt misplaced, and overall, the film seemed more suited for a video game cut scene than a cinematic experience.

[@pinkysaures.]

I love avatar but my main problem with it is not enough screen time or backstory for some characters. The amount of deleted scenes they have that actually tell more of the story kinda sucks. Im kinda mad we didn't get more screen time of neteyam or more backstory of spider. Spider just randomly appeared.

[@eysan90]

100% an experience and an “event” and there’s nothing wrong with that. Not every movie has to be like Nolan’s films or super deep. They just have to give you an enjoyable experience and hopefully something that strikes you, which this movie definitely did. The story wasn’t crazy good but it was enjoyable.

[@randomly_random_0]

There are reasons why Nolan's films flops at BO. Their complex story did not really make audience connect to the film.

[@CloseYourBrownEyes]

James Cameron > Nolan

[@randomly_random_0]

I watched interstellar because i love science films. I get most of the stories but it still so complex that it looses my interest. Even my friends lose interest watching it. It's not because people are dumb, it's just you go to see movies to be entertained, not to be challenged like you're solving a math problem in school.

[@daudimasinde6280]

@@randomly_random_0 Nolan's films have grossed $5 billion worldwide, but I guess to you that's flopping. Smooth-brained and ignorant.

[@oogskskfn]

@@randomly_random_0 interstellar has like no actual science or anything jargon specific in it, it was an Uber emotional story that’s mostly dramatic, if that was too complex and scientific then avatar is perfect for you

[@erockbrox8484]

Avatar 1: 10/10 love it. Avatar 2: Man, feels like it misses the fun of the first movie.

[@messwithhelpy]

Nope ur just old

[@El3mental1]

Lol you must've been asleep old man!

[@kreaturekate1125]

Totally agree, this one missed the heart entirely that the first had

[@caged_rage4915]

I have to agree with you on this review. I felt like I was watching Planet Earth or Planet Blue, the visuals felt very immersive at times. The plot was very shallow at best. I still think "That's why the sky people came back??". Great looking movie, extremely, great story telling, hard no.

[@ronelm]

Never understood when critics use the phrase “emotional manipulation” when the whole purpose of a movie is to move you emotionally. Every scene , every musical note, every lighting setup, camera angle , colour pallet is designed to play with your emotions.

[@bertimusprime7900]

The manipulation part comes in when what is happening on screen doesn’t warrant the emotion they are attempting to illicit in you. They then rely on the music and lighting to convince you that the shallow tripe they peddle as writing is worth investing in.

[@opupfg]

He explains it very clear in the video

[@parry3439]

@@bertimusprime7900 mate if people are moved thanks to the music and lighting then the music and lighting is really goddamn good

[@bertimusprime7900]

@@parry3439 true, but it also tricks them into thinking the other aspects are good. That’s the manipulation.

[@oogskskfn]

@@parry3439 no it isn’t you literally just need to use a simple chord progression using strings… also it’s been done for 40 years so most movies that do it in such a cheap way do it the EXACT same way every time, you can literall count to three for each of the times the music comes in cause of how unoriginal and rudimentary it is

[@lobae9638]

As soon as I saw Jake running from conflict I knew the plot wasn’t going to be interesting. We indeed got the same movie again 😂. From a writing standpoint, the fact that pandora is going to be colonized is the MAIN threat it hasn’t been addressed one bit. If jakes wants to save his family it doesn’t make sense to go to Polynesia pandora. Because they’re coming For the whole planet.

[@brainiac.computer]

Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana have some good moments. The problem is that their characters don’t go through an “arc”. Saldana’s character even does something questionable near the end that is glossed over. And Worthington’s character has a “lesson” that didn’t need to take an ENTIRE movie, nor a lot of people dying, for him to learn.

[@officialdazer]

All the children go through arcs, the soldiers go through arcs, the arcs of the parents were completed in Avatar one, and even then they do change as a unit. I disagree that a character has to have an arc for them to be worthwhile. It's critical nit picking that serves no purpose

[@oogskskfn]

@@officialdazer it’s not nit picking for no reason. Worthington and Saldana were active characters in the last movie that drove the plot. In this movie they lose agency, they lose what they learned the first movie, the only moment any of them actually make a decision actively is in the beginning. after that they are at mercy of the kids dealing with peer pressure the rest of the movie for plot continuance. That just lets you know that they thought of visual scenes before they thought about the script because half of the things that happened were because “Kid got teased one time about it so he disregarded what he was told”.

[@midnight-2021]

The kids are annoying as you can get. They are as annoying as Jar Jar Binks.

[@rebellious_red7123]

It’s why I don’t really consider this movie a sequel it feels more or less like a soft-reboot and for some audiences to be waiting for so many years for this Is quite underwhelming

[@dancingdragonfly1667]

I didn't find that moment questionable at all. She was perfectly justified in her rage. I loved thst the movie didn't shy away from it either.

[@sethkaicer319]

The movie cynic and I need to gross 2 billion dollars just to break even.

[@errwhattheflip]

Honestly, just watch the new Puss in Boots movie for a good blend of spectacle and storytelling.

[@kreaturekate1125]

I literally said this too!!! I wasn't expecting Puss in Boots to be so good but it's amazing, I expected this to be somewhat good and it was horrible. Don't waste 3 hours of your life, just watch Puss in Boots

[@errwhattheflip]

@@kreaturekate1125 It's not horrible. In fact, I actually liked it. But if you want a truly great blend of storytelling and visual spectacle, Puss in Boots has that in the bag. Avatar 2...not as much.

[@kreaturekate1125]

@@errwhattheflip see I think for me, since I loved the first movie so much, seeing this movie butcher it's story and characters just makes it worse than for people who don't remember the first well, which is why for me, this movie was horrible. I did love the Puss in Boots movie though, that was phenomenal and I want to see it again.

[@comedian416]

This review brilliantly conveys exactly how I felt about this movie. Lazy, thin, boring rehash of a great stand alone film. Cameron had no idea what do with this movie. No wonder it took 13 years. There is no story! Just a bunch of pretty pictures. Reusing same dead characters. For a throw away item to even have humans in the movie. As far as sequels go, this movie sucks. I love the first one, amazing and inventive. But this ain't T2 folks. Cameron Cleary lost his touch

[@xxocarina1430]

THANK YOU!!!! You literally said everything I felt after watching just 20mins of this film... it was a painful 20mins...

[@andrewlattier5138]

I agree I just saw it terrible movie

[@TheInvisibleCactusYT]

I saw this film with two of my friends last night. The cinema was completely empty, so we just joked throughout the entire movie. If they weren’t there I doubt I would have stayed to watch it.

[@Souphover]

So nobody liked this movie come on 🥺

[@djkailobass]

@@SouphoverDon’t worry I loved this movie, there’s always gonna be haters for any movie. What matters is you like the movie who cares what other people think and trust me there’s a lot of people that love this movie. When it ended in the theaters literally every single person clapped because it was so good and it was packed. Don’t worry people love this movie

[@GIBBO4182]

@@djkailobass is someone automatically a “hater” if they have a different opinion to you?

[@Meop79]

@@Souphover lots of people will enjoy it... but those people don't think they are just there to observe the spectacle.

[@djkailobass]

@@GIBBO4182 No It just seems like a lot of people are hating on it

[@truthisfree7297]

Sadly, your comment about how Avatar 2 will be forgotten in no time is the summation of nearly every major movie made nowadays. They are tasteless, mindless bits of fluff that amuse your eyes for a couple of hours and then hold no interest once the final credits role. As a person who grew up when movies like Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Alien/Aliens, Star Trek II, Ghostbusters, etc were first released, it is hard to understand this complete lack of inspiration. Movies used to be tasty appetizers that sparked your imagination to create new chapters of the story. Movies today are like dry rice cakes that leave you full up but unsatisfied.

[@bev9708]

OMG finally a review that doesn't just pander to it's popularity!!! As you say, it's far far from the worst movie of the year, of course, but not only the story is thin thin thin, but also the dialogue is often just groan inducing... literally I groaned out loud quite a few times!! Yet as you say, after the first movie, we really didn't expect anything else!!🤦🏻‍♀🤦🏻‍♀

[@WapitalismandWreedom]

Not every movie has to be a thinker. This movie is PEAK cinema entertainment. THIS is what marvel movies should be but we settle for dogshit. This movie was about showing people what's possible if they're creative enough to try. If marvel movies looked like this and had half the emotion maybe then I'd understand why people like them. That being said, the reason people defend marvel is the reason I defend avatar, its a spectacle geared to entertain you not make you think like the joker. The difference is avatar is better than 90% of marvel movies.

[@rasalasblack]

The big middle chunk was YA-esque drama. THAT made me wanna puke. I dived into my phone and just surfaced in the last part. Always a bad combo, YA romance and sci-fi. It comes off a 100x more insufferable.

[@TheBiggestMoneyBoy]

@@WapitalismandWreedom creative enough to try? This movie is just a sof reboot of the 1st one. It's not creative in the slightest. Just say yes you're tired of all the superhero garbage and you'll take anything else.

[@brightestfuture]

The plan is to have 5 Avatars. It's a build up. There are better reviews out there. It's seems like in this review, he doesn't know the true story line. The hurt animal that he said is insignificant was extremely significant. That hurt animal is the hero of the film. I wonder if he watched it? Lol

[@ophanimangel3143]

@@brightestfuture James Cameron wants to take your money more lol. Why would he have to have it in cinema instead of in streaming services to lay out this story? It cost me $50 in Australia in IMAX whereas if in a streaming service one can just have characters more drawn out that cost for even less. Anyone who is coming to see these films for stories is truly deluding themselves.

[@elyalvarz]

It was painfully recycled. I am a big fan of the first movie (Ik, it’s not a masterpiece but I really enjoy the visuals and Pandora as a concept) so I’ve watched it enough times to notice that a bunch of scenes and dialogues were almost literally copy/pasted in the second movie. Even though I loved the visuals and the sound effects (it’s a beautiful movie, yes) I walked out very disappointed.

[@annakatharinasponagel4630]

same here. it makes me so mad how they fully wasted the potential of what the 2nd movie could have been. the 1st is my all time favourite and actually made me feel something unlike the 2nd where I feel like we are being told what to feel - without it coming naturally to us. I would love to ask James Cameron what the hell went wrong. How is the same guy who gave us the 1st movie, the one giving us this poor excuse of a movie..

[@elyalvarz]

@@annakatharinasponagel4630 Yup, it would be awesome to know what his vision was and what steps he took to get there... because he surely left us all confused.

[@ceoofgrind8101]

Its just more noble savage worship nonsense.

[@DullTorpor]

I tried watching this but about 10 minutes into it I changed the channel, mostly because the dialogue was cringe. I might give it another try at some point. Incidentally, the bad guy's avatar looks like Jake's; I'm sure that won't be distracting.

[@221B-o4e]

If this is Cameron's understanding of female empowerment, let's hope he never writes a female character ever again

[@Baja5280]

I was honestly thinking that people only remember going to see avatar. Because after rewatching it out of the theater is actually a kinda boring movie. You didnt say GGs?

[@yahu5988]

The cgi is on video game level and the design of some faces is hideous

[@HansOlo-qe4pf]

Why can't people just say "I don't like Avatar, it is not for me" and move on? Why do they have to say things like "it's made for toddlers" or "only dumb people like this movie" and why do those people want Avatar to fail as a franchise? Where is that hate and those negative comments towards something a lot of people enjoy and love coming from? Also over at reddit: So many people hate on this movie with a passion that I can't really understand what motivates you all. Why is this franchise getting so much hate online? Why do people think its cool and trendy when they shit on Avatar online? And I am mainly talking about comments on youtube or reddit, not really about this video because usually I get what this channel is about and agree with most of the videos that the Movie Cynic has made until today. :) I've seen the first movie multiple times and I am a fan, I've seen the 2nd one yesterday and I am still in awe and I will go again next week when I have 2 days off over the holidays. What I just don't get is how my friends, even my family and parents (who are in their late 60tis!) love this movie so much and how co-workers talked about it all day today but when I go online I see nothing but hate and spite towards this franchise and people just really want it to fail. And yes it does bug me because I love it so much and waited for this movie for about 10 years. I absolutely accept when people don't like it but how people behave online and cheer at it when it does not meet boxoffice expectations or call people stupid who love it is just strange and I ask myself why these people take joy in such things. Cameron revolutionized 3D with Avatar and his motion capture techniques under water again set a new standard. Thousands of people worked on this movie for 6 years, people could at least give them credit for that and for trying to do something new and not just a formulaic MCU movie number 4763.

[@devildolphin2102]

It’s a Dumb Dancing with Wolves knock off made for children. You want thought provoking Cinema Watch princess Mononoskue where guess what Technology is actually represented as good and nature pretty savage.

[@HansOlo-qe4pf]

Your first sentence is just so sad... But yeah what did I expect hehe. I rest my case. 😂

[@devildolphin2102]

@@HansOlo-qe4pf I’m sorry that you like Derivative trash. Enjoy Avatar 2 Free Willy with pretty Color.

[@pavanjotsingh1578]

@@devildolphin2102 now you trying to hate the movie

[@devildolphin2102]

@@pavanjotsingh1578 Oh my god I hate a Movie because it Has No plot, is super cliche the Human Villains have no story and the ire toe is a Massive hypocrite. Just Shut up and enjoy the pretty colors is you people’s only defense for this crap movie. It’s pathetic.

[@Stonegoal]

I don't care if animals get hurt. Why aren't we eating it?

[@sirvantanite1307]

The movie was honestly pretty good. The story needed some work, but it wasnt horrible. A movie doesnt have to be revolutionary to be good. The effects alone surpassed anything you'd normally see in movies. In the fact that its upping standards alone makes the movie incredibly impressive.

[@southlondon86]

Yeah but is that really direction we want with films? Pretty effects and awful drawn out stories? I think most people expected a lot more from Mr Cameron. Surely he could do better than dumb marvel superhero-esque cgi fests?

[@randomly_random_0]

@@southlondon86 as if you actually enjoy complex plot. Did you watch Interstellar multiple times? that movie has some of the complex plot. People trying to act like they can handle something complex.

[@simonnitsche1379]

@@southlondon86 but the story isnt awful

[@southlondon86]

@@randomly_random_0 No I didn’t like Interstellar as much as the hype wanted you to, save for the last act when he finds himself in the 5th dimensional tesseract. I preffered Inception which was genius. And please - cinema needs better things than dumb blue aliens in boring stories & cgi explosions.

[@agentcooper6179]

@@southlondon86It’s the direction of avatar films. So, yes.

[@shreksburgers]

i'd say cameron is losing his edge. or just living off the old glories. also, the humans are made way too stupid. they have all this fancy tech and they're still defeated by a bunch of dudes with bows and arrows. hell, why not do what we did irl and employ certain na'vi tribes against one other?

[@ryanvandermerwe5587]

Americans only like The Avengers and The Fast and Furious... Anything else is never good enough

[@hughy897]

Bruh this movie is basically the same as the first first but they extended the “discovery channel” moments.

[@delix787]

Avatar’s storyline is basically. Throw me into the avatar world and I’ll come back leading the tribe. 🥶

[@hansakkerman2611]

"I'm better than you at being you"

[@user-ky8du8lk7l]

Says a guy who couldn't even fight off his highschool bully

[@billlumbergh9251]

This movie was awful. The best way to describe it is a turd covered in glitter and sparkles. The story was lame, the whales were dumb, all of the new characters were awful. With all of the time and money sunk into it, it's a crime against cinema.

[@AlphaCentauri24]

Why are you mad, bro? Bro, Avatar 2 rocks, bro. Hey cuz, the script is number one cuz bro. Bro, come on, bro!

[@TheMovieCynic]

😂

[@Ronald-vg3bv]

Go go go

[@4390BigBoss]

I liked it better than the first movie honestly Quaritch was less one dimensional

[@Slushii24]

Tbh the first movie is so much better than avatar 2 and they could’ve made the second movie amazing if they wrote the script right I’d watch avatar 1 again over the second movie Also I was a bit disappointed that they re used quaritch guy or whatever that was the main villain and didn’t use another new villain or new enemy … :/

[@tickledonions9483]

Avatar 1 was a lot grittier and cinematic. It was actually cool, they had a whole planet to play around with. But they didn't do crap with all that in Avatar 2.

[@tickledonions9483]

@@dianashepherd3241The character hardly had any development in Avatar, it was just like the main bad guy which we don't even see for most of the movie. The only thing new about Quadritch is that he's got a kid (COINCIDENCE????). Dude the whole point of Spider is so that they could bring back Quadritch and 'develop' the character. The "father son" relationship was so forced, it was so random and unnecessary. The message of the film is obviously about family, we don't need to have it shoved in our faces. But the movie treats us like little kids.

[@Rockstar-bq5fm]

Mmm gotta disagree myself, thought it was a pretty damn good movie honestly. Is James Cameron one of the biggest snobs and asses working in Hollywood?? Yeah. But he certainly knows how to make a blockbuster and I very much was entertained throughout the film. 3-d really needs to stop though, I was ok watching the film as it happened but the last 2 days I’ve had pounding head aches and my eyes have been a bit sore so 3-d can definitely fuck right off for me going forward. But it certainly enhanced some of the movie, mainly the last hour and a good chunk of the water scenes. I liked the film gotta say and excited for another instalment

[@djkailobass]

Yes thank you this movie was amazing

[@imcoupe]

yeah i watched it in 3d had to take off my glasses at some points bc of how disorienting it was

[@dronesclubhighjinks]

I know how you feel. I have extreme light sensitivity and watching any movie in the theater is a sensory overload for me. People don't understand how it's actually physically painful, and nauseating so I describe it like a normal-functioning eyes person going from a completely dark room and stepping out into super bright sunlight.

[@devildolphin2102]

The movie is literally Nothing but Pretty colors and A tech demo it is the Scorn Game for Movies The Kids get kidnapped 5 times somehow by the Resurrected Clone Villain who they don’t explain. And the Mccguffin of the last movie was Hand waved away for Magic Whale Juice that they don’t explain what it does.

[@Rockstar-bq5fm]

@@devildolphin2102: when you start breaking down movie or game plots you’re gonna find that 90% of them make absolutely no fucking sense and are cliche filled. Either it’s entertains or it doesn’t and Avatar 2 entertained me. And by the looks of it quite alot of other people

[@sydneylaroche8276]

What annoyed me is that they literally moved to the beach for no reason. They freaked out and left their home just to then go and fight the humans anyway (getting almost everyone else killed in the process), they could have just stayed at home and it would have been the same outcome and perhaps they wouldn't have almost wiped everyone out. The entire premise of the film (moving to this water place) basically has no real reason for happening.

[@vXCozmoz]

"Bold and bland" is a good description. Saw this movie 20th of Dec with a friend and it was horrible. It should be called "Avatar 2 The Ways of Zzz" because they spend waaay to much time bathing in the ocean, learn how to ride a new animal (yay Avatar 1 training again...). Yes the visuals looked great but we already know that Avatar 1 gfx was impressive. We don't need 50% ish of a movie showing us how wonderful, colorful and beautiful the ocean is. Felt like watching a documentary. I was longing SO HARD for some action and I saw multiple ppl checking their phones. It was even so bad that I saw 3-4 ppl leaving the cinema and I'm not joking. Thought they went to the bathroom. Never came back. TLDR add: Call me crazy, but at some point I was starting to cheer for the Colonel. Atleast I knew something would happen atleast and Jake Sully felt bad in this one. Plus many missed opportunities for a deeper story. Like more background with Grace, something, anything. Good gfx does not make a movie alone. You need a good story too and more! They hardly even spoke Na'vi, mostly English and with "bro" over and over again. Jake abandoned his people so know getting that Unobtainium should be easy taking, but no they're after brain whale juice insted and wasting everything else on it after killing a big whale. Yeah I see what you did there James... Avatar 1: 5 of 5 Avatar 2: 2/5 maybe. The battle scenes were pretty good. Except even then, sometimes it felt like I was watching a beautiful made Titanic movie. Idc what Rotten tomatoes score says. This was painfully boring to watch. How this movie got 93% audience score is really beyond me. Lastly, to all of you out there calling ppl "haters" for teling their honest opinions, having constructive critisism or to simply have a critical thought is just...I stop there.

[@markwilkinson4316]

I took the Family to see it, & we were through with it by the end of the second act & left. The problem was that although the visuals were great, the novelty wasn't enough to carry the movie for over 3 hrs. I'm guessing they blew the budget on the CGI, got a budget crew to quickly cobble a 2 hr script together using previous material, & used CGI filler for the rest (or at least that's the way it felt). The youngest hit the nail squarely on the head when she said "It was OK I guess, but why did it have to be soooo long". 2 hrs was enough for her, & frankly I was good with that.

[@TheRandomINFJ]

TLDR? someone explain? I am so sick of this world of acronyms and stuff. Why can't people ever read a comment with actual *words* that we don't have to Google?!!!

[@gammadio976]

In addition to the "mighty whitey" trope the film also uses the "noble savage" trope, portraying the native people as a bunch of perfect and morally superior hippies. A more morally ambiguous film would have been more interesting