The Arguments for God's Existence Tier List

Patreon: / geneticallymodifiedske...
PayPal: www.paypal.me/GMSkeptic
What is the best argument for god's existence? Although I haven't yet found any which are without error, some arguments are better, or more convincing, than others. Apologetics can appear dry on the surface, but they're fascinating upon closer inspection. These arguments often sneak in false premises and tricky debate tactics which many don't catch. Here, though, I've analyzed some of the most popular arguments for god, charted their stats, examined their special abilities, and ranked them accordingly. The arguments discussed here are, in no particular order: The Ontological Argument, The Argument from Personal Experience, The Kalam Cosmological Argument, the Teleological Argument, Paschal's Wager, and the Moral Argument.
Want to know how to prove that god exists, or how to convince an atheist of god's existence? This tier list may shed light on the difficulties in doing that, and the tools at your disposal.
------------------------------------------FOLLOW------------------------------------------
Twitter: / gm_skeptic
Facebook: / gmskeptic
Discord: / discord
Patreon: / geneticallymodifiedske...
PayPal: www.paypal.me/GMSkeptic
This video contains 100% therapeutic grade skepticism.*
*This statement has not been evaluated by the FDA

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

Ok, give me your thoughts, people. How would you rank these arguments yourself? Is my choice for A tier outrageous?

[@microsoftcortana9239]

Hello, I'm first

[@microsoftcortana9239]

I love your channel btw

[@lioneye108]

Have you Come across Bernado Kastrup? Check him out

[@Mattttlantis]

I would put personal experience above the teleological argument, actually

[@wren6311]

Your discord link is expired

[@Nasho3]

If God doesn't exist, then why is the game called "God of War" and not "Science of War"?

[@albertdescartes9462]

Thanks, now i believe in kratos

[@RyujiJames]

@@albertdescartes9462 LMAOOO

[@blitzcha0s308]

Because games are a product of fiction therefore god is fiction. *BOOM*

[@Nasho3]

@@blitzcha0s308 ö

[@Claudius_Ptolemy]

If God is fake, why is a canine called a dog and not an ecneics ?

[@________John__________]

My boy living in a nether fortress.

[@thenothingking]

How is this not a top comment

[@GeeksOasis]

Upvote this. Upvote this now!

[@antoniobandito3161]

Best comment

[@figoschneider9946]

This comment is hillarious

[@mickdowling982]

Underrated comment😭

[@nps5077]

The main problem with Pascal's Wager is that it isn't even an argument for god's existence, but an argument for believing in god's existence, which are not the same thing

[@michaelramon2411]

The most common version of the Argument from Morality has the same problem - "If people don't believe in God, they won't be moral" is an argument for why people should ACT like God exists, not an argument that he actually exists. Honestly, the Argument from Personal Experience, while not a great argument, is the only one here that deserves the slightest credence, because it is the only one that attempts to present EVIDENCE rather than playing word games or ignoring the question entirely.

[@padhlebhai-mi2nd]

hmm, good rationale @@michaelramon2411

[@ronaldrrootiii6040]

Exactly and even if you were to follow it you're not making a Christian God happy who wants you to actually worship him and all this stuff Beyond just literally believing he exists which is crazy

[@junaidahmad1492]

If you boil any argument long enough, you won't find god's existence but the belief in god.

[@dylanmolfetas4947]

I appreciate your engagement with Pascal's Wager. While it is true that Pascal's Wager does not directly argue for the existence of God, it does present a pragmatic approach to belief in God. Pascal's Wager proposes that even if the existence of God cannot be established with certainty through rational arguments, it is still rational to believe in God because the potential benefits of belief outweigh the potential costs. According to Pascal, belief in God is a safer bet than unbelief. The wager suggests that if God does exist, then believers will gain eternal bliss, while non-believers will suffer eternal loss. Conversely, if God does not exist, believers will only have a finite loss in terms of pleasures and comforts in this life, while non-believers will have no eternal gain. Therefore, Pascal argues that the rational choice is to believe in God, as it maximizes the potential for eternal happiness. While Pascal's Wager may not provide evidence for the existence of God, it presents a rational framework for considering belief in God as a prudent choice. It grapples with the potential consequences of one's beliefs and suggests that the potential benefits of belief make it reasonable to choose faith in God. However, I encourage further examination and evaluation of other arguments for the existence of God, such as the cosmological argument or the teleological argument, as they offer additional support for belief in a higher power.

[@ihatesocraticseminars]

If god doesn’t exist, then why do meteors ALWAYS land in craters?

[@FenrizNNN]

S tier theory.

[@EEE-do3eu]

this better be a joke if its not THE METEORS MAKE THEM ON IMPACT GOOBER

[@keeganpogue1856]

@@EEE-do3eubruh you’re dumb as hell

[@user-ty8pr3gf4v]

@@EEE-do3eu r/whoosh

[@credentials4664]

​@@EEE-do3eusame

[@HectorLopez-fh1lu]

Missed the opportunity to make a God tier

[@hremostypas]

this comment is ingenious omg

[@rohithssj3]

For sure. Canon Jesus vs canon krishna. No legends.

[@Marchclouds]

That would piss so many people off

[@donovanberserk4993]

Its debatable whether such a tier exists

[@spiritualsnail1584]

Nah it's S tier for Science tier

[@wisperton]

If god doesnt exist, why does the hand of man fit so perfectly around the throat of a goose?

[@omurbekakm6689]

Lmfao

[@omarbazarbachi418]

You deserve more likes!!

[@runtergerutscht4401]

Insert peace was never an option joke here

[@hayden5889]

Omg, im a believer now

[@michac.8283]

This but unironically. These vile mfers are only good to be strangled

[@cursedcat6467]

“If I’m wrong I lose nothing, if you are wrong, you lose everything!” “Ok”

[@Bojan12]

I am Christian and yes that is completely wrong. Matter of fact Paul even wrote that we are most miserable of all people if it is not true. And guess what I never liked gambling in my life

[@ivyumi.]

Thats a very dumb reason to become Christian anyway,i dont think you will go to heaven for believing in god simply out of fear of hell

[@adamanthark5237]

Yeah good luck choosing thousands of Gods out there. Maybe Anubis were the real one all this time

[@Bojan12]

@@adamanthark5237 Anubis did not endure test of time

[@seanwaddell2659]

@@Bojan12doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist, in the same way that the worship of other gods does not mean they exist

[@kenmurray25]

Personal experience is definitely a hard one to refute. I was arguing my atheism with my father when he stated that he wouldn’t be able to handle it if he had to believe his father was not living in heaven. Although it certainly didn’t change my beliefs, it did cause me to end the discussion because I wasn’t willing to go down that line of discussion.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

It's not an argument, so there is no need to refute it.

[@yeetusfreezus5175]

did you stop because you couldn't refute it?

[@davidcalado744]

​@@yeetusfreezus5175it just wasnt worth it

[@yeetusfreezus5175]

@@davidcalado744 This is the problem have with atheist vs theist debates. You can't pick what parts of the argument you want to respond too. If you blisfully ignore it you have conceded, and it would be foolish to continue in your positon.

[@biddash9815]

@@yeetusfreezus5175you wanted my boy to argue down his pops about his father not being in heaven? its not that deep

[@TierZoo]

Ha imagine framing serious subjects in gamer terms wow what a nerd

[@photophone5574]

Yeah like biology or some crap.

[@sigitang9398]

You, here ?! I thought it was a featuring with you at first glance !

[@longshorts5154]

Hey I know you --_--

[@JadenWaddell]

TierZoo everyone is stealing your format. Casually explained did it too

[@turiaki9002]

I was thinking of "TierZoo" throughout this entire video. You're the gift that keeps on giving!

[@louisdavout7136]

If god doesn't exist, then why are human ears in the perfect location for eye glasses?

[@louisdavout7136]

@Andrei Salvaleon lol. Yes it's a joke. Welcome to Poe's law

[@cait3196]

haha checkmate athiests

[@Diego-ud3nb]

@@cait3196 owo

[@123telamon]

Is the Eye glasses that were made to fit the human face. Not the human face were made to fit the eye glasses

[@ifera6393]

Oh hello there Pangloss!

[@perrytheplate8212]

I love how he talks about these arguments like they’re weapons in an rpg

[@ultimazilla9814]

I mean, if you think about it, life is just one big RPG (role playing game, not rocket propelled grenade), and these are argumental (I made the word up) weapons

[@hil449]

​@@ultimazilla9814rethorical weapons

[@gingersummer4005]

@@ultimazilla9814nonono, life as a rocket propelled grenade is funny as shit. I beg of you to please continue researching this theory 😂😂

[@vcvcvc9216]

16:46 I place "personal experience" in s tier because the lack of personal experience made me lose my beliefs while I was still aware of every argument on this list. Basically the argument that is the strongest for me is the one that, without it, someone would lose all faith.

[@jamesc3505]

Yes, similarly, I imagine personal experience would be convincing for me, and I haven't experienced it. I imagine I would definitely rate it highest if I had. I did wonder for a bit whether I should rate it highest, since, having not had such personal experience myself, I can't find it convincing. But I think anyone who has should certainly rate it higher than any of the philosophical arguments. (I think those are all terrible.) And, thinking about it, I find other people's testimony of personal experience more convincing than any of the philosophical arguments, so even not having had personal experience myself, it's still the strongest argument for me.

[@soso88884]

@@jamesc3505 i had some personal experiences that wavered my atheism, its definitely strong

[@abdelhaditayebbey]

but its still not a good argument in my opinion maybe if the video is titled best causes for believe in god or something it would've been s tier but it doesnt prove god.

[@jamesc3505]

@@abdelhaditayebbey: Yeah, that's possibly fair. It might be compelling, but not necessarily a good argument. I avoided saying "S tier" anyway, because, not having had personal experience myself, it isn't really either for me.

[@xavieryeeter8547]

I bet a lot of people mistake the hallucinations from DMT from close death experiences as God or alien encounters

[@agastya6799]

if God doesn't exist, then why are shoes the perfect shape for our feet to fit in?

[@zazithym3569]

Chekmate atheists

[@tristanbrewer4523]

Because apes designed them

[@malonedeluxe]

@@tristanbrewer4523 laiiirr impsbli

[@kimnasayao5549]

ahhh man, definitely can't refute that

[@apollo1211]

@@tristanbrewer4523 I don’t think you can call Asians that

[@BigMan-pv3ee]

“If god is not real then why is Christianity so popular?” - a priest, literally edit please stop talking i dont care

[@gottgainz6477]

My friend said the same thing about chakras. If it's not real, why do so many people on KZbin believe in it

[@Codemanlex]

Well then Superman is real

[@jebemtigolaz]

What an easy question. Propaganda, forceful christianisation, proselytisation, power plays, keeping people ignorant, cultism, attacking other beliefs, etc.. etc Also, Christianity is NOT popular. It's actually just metastasized, like cancer.

[@XxAshxX140]

My dad said that to me years ago

[@ramblingrob14]

NerveSystem once again I’m Catholic and I say it’s an argument not legit proof

[@deacudaniel1635]

As a theist, I really like your honest analysis and respectful attitude when describing these arguments. I actually don't use any of those arguments since I think the existence or absence of God is not something "to know" or deduce logically.Since the universe is so big compared with our knowledge, and our science is still limited, then there is neither a way to prove or disprove God's existence.Even our human brains and logic are limited so we have no way to know yet if God exists or not.We can only choose to believe or not, and any of these choices are ok since we still don't know logically/scientifically.I choose to believe in a higher power since that gives me more psychological comfort.

[@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

I’m glad you liked the video! I agree with a lot of you had to say and respect your honesty and position. Thanks for a great comment 👊

[@marknieuweboer8099]

As our Universe is part of natural reality and a god is supposed to be supernatural science, limited or not, by definition can't (dis)prove the idea. There are other ways though.

[@simply_oat755]

if you crave psychological comfort id suggest therapy..

[@randomloverofcheese]

​​@@simply_oat755 If it gives him comfort, religion IS his therapy

[@krishivraj2361]

@@simply_oat755 My theistic belief would be that everything that exists is essentially God. Now I don't think there is any refutation for that unless we do not exist. But it is just my belief, which is not shared by a lot of people.

[@forrestgreen9369]

Pascal's wager isn't even an argument for god's existence - it adds nothing to the question of whether or not god exists. It is merely an argument for why we should believe in god.

[@typicool9083]

The religions that are easiest to follow and that give the harshest punishments for disobedience always seem to become the most popular. It entertains my own personal theory that goes this way: If an authority figure creates an edict that is easy to follow promising infinite reward, and inversely, if ignored, enforcing infinite suffering then it will be widely agreed upon. I find that the proof of this is seen in what religions still float around today. While many religions explain the origin of earth and all on it, the ones that stick around are the ones that promise reward and horrible punishment.

[@ChristopherCro]

​@@typicool9083EXACTLY. And the resson *most* people blindly follow religion is because their parents or someone else told them that when they were a child.

[@typicool9083]

@@ChristopherCro totally forgot when i was writing this comment but damn was i cooking

[@ChristopherCro]

@@typicool9083 haha

[@dbossmotiv]

It doesn’t even give a good argument for that either though 😂 it’s a $hieet argument through and through.

[@karimmostefa1850]

if god doesn't exist than who's jesus's dad? check mate atheists

[@andrewwenner2781]

You got em on the ropes!

[@iamepicfumo2360]

Your mom

[@lonzoformvp5078]

Mary just needed a cover up story for cheating on Joseph

[@the_renaissance]

@@lonzoformvp5078 exactly

[@ismetel-emin7569]

Pfff

[@eldenarchonofcinder2036]

In my opinion, the weakest argument is “The Bible proves that the Bible is correct!”

[@mekullag9787]

Archon of Games While „it is be true because it says it is“ is circular reasoning, „It may be true because some guy wrote it down as though it were a few thousand years ago“ is just called „working with historical sources“. A lot of effort goes into figuring out what is and is not belivable (loads of propaganda or just fantasy epics that were never meant to be taken as fact etc.), by cross-referencing the text with other evidence. finding out about the author and on and on. A single text says there was a battle here 2000 years ago and we actually found a 2000 year old weapon or two in that area? That‘s usually enough to make it into history books. Two sources of opposing political sides share a story that‘s more or less comparable? Something like that most likely happened. Two sources share a story thats almost identical? Probably never happened. Just because some texts were collected in a book and some weren‘t you can‘t discount their possible value as historical sources. As far as I know the jury is still out on the believability of the gospels in scientific circles (correct me if I‘m wrong, my knowledge may not be up to date). As far as I know they actually compare favourably to other sources we consider factual. If they were telling a story that was easy to believe, the gospels might probably be taught as history by now. But, as you know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and with a claim like that I‘m honestly not sure if any historical source could ever suffice.

[@andrewprahst2529]

That one falls in the category of personal experience, I would say. But that's actually more reliable because its accounts of several people instead of just one. Btw you do mean "bible proves God exists" right? I don't think I've met someone claiming what you said.

[@andrewcalebgorospe2754]

Congrats. You just unlocked the No tier class

[@EinFelsbrocken]

Its funny, if more people would actually read the bible, there would be less and less believers, as the bible contradicts and denies itself NON STOP.

[@andrewprahst2529]

Felsbrocken I agree there would be fewer believers, but only because of the actual content of it. I challenge the fact that the bible contradicts itself at all let alone constantly. I hear people say that constantly with little proof. I have seen videos like those made by Non-stamp-collector, but if you look at the bible as a collection of documents by limited individuals rather than some sort of continuous narrative, most of those "contradictions" disappear

[@fluttershiy2124]

Personal experiences are not an argument for the existence of god. They are just an argument for why that person believes in god.

[@SteelSquishy]

Agreed

[@Bojan12]

They can be especially if you encountered the same. This can be mind opening. Some carry really incredible testimonies for which they will even die for in need be

[@Stevewilldoit96]

Look around you, that’s proof of god. Everything didn’t come from nothing. there had to be intelligent design. Aristotle discovered the unmoved mover theory 3000 years ago. Look it up, it’s actually interesting philosophy.

[@ChristopherCro]

​@@Stevewilldoit96watch the whole video

[@bountiful14]

@@Stevewilldoit96ok sure everything around us is proof of god. now which god is it proof of?

[@zoomzoom7510]

If jesus doesn’t exist, whom did I see yesterday at the bus with long hair

[@ans_5137]

PenguinZ/Moist Critikal

[@jwyz4906]

"God exists, therefore God exists”

[@funguy-yt7632]

"

[@somebodytouchedmyspaghet7876]

And that's it case closed , good night *Mic Drop*

[@jwyz4906]

@@funguy-yt7632 oops

[@midwestnagyfa]

God must exist, therefore God exists.

[@christophersnedeker2065]

Well the Hebrew name of God revealed to Moses is "I am that I am" or "I will be that I will be"

[@meowpizza2403]

SSS Tier: "I am God"

[@shamusson]

Perfection.

[@ErikAdalbertvanNagel]

@@hitthemill8595 don't have to, you can just *_believe_* it.

[@realwingedchaos]

I'd just call that the "Pre-JiK Kanye Tier"

[@tammo401]

Kanye tier you mean

[@MrBegmar]

@@shamusson Prove it to yourself by taking psychedelics. It is subjective AF, but better than nothing.

[@geekpunk5159]

As a muslim, you talk in a very kind manner. I respect you for not being emotionally enraged (unlike the other antitheist preachers) and keeping it civil and humane.

[@megan8932]

I want to say, sorry from all the hate you guys get from Americans, and LGBT people, not all of us are like that.

[@theperfecttroller]

@@megan8932 what does lgbt have to do with anything

[@walikazmi7613]

@@theperfecttroller gay

[@lasagnapaper]

@@theperfecttroller Lgbtq+ groups hate Muslims do to the fact that in their religion it is haram(sin) to be Lgbtq+

[@thomasfisher4833]

​@@megan8932I'm confused. You think the LGBT community is too ... discriminatory towards muslims? But muslims are, on the whole, pretty homophobic, transphobic, etc. So I think an animosity is justified.

[@dr.squash4782]

I was born and raised a Christian, this is possibly the calmest and most level headed video I've seen. I respect your ideas and information. I know my beliefs boil into the personal experience category as I'm tormented a lot with night terrors. Although I could potentially see the other side I'm not capable of understanding it from my own understanding

[@tripledogmlgf1411]

love these comments, wish everyone could understand calmly and no one would have to rant and hate on people for stuff, what a idealistic world tho.

[@Levi-xx1mj]

The only reason he is level headed is because he’s talking to a camera.

[@DyarContreras]

@@Levi-xx1mjlol…cynical much?

[@DyarContreras]

dr squash, I’m sorry to hear that. I used to be a Christian, but now, I am a more enlightened agnostic atheist who has a lot of inner peace…I wish you peace and happiness, despite your inner turmoil. Being raised religious is a HELL of a thing to have to overcome….believe me, I know from first hand experience.

[@DyarContreras]

@@tripledogmlgf1411great comment! It’s all we can hope for during these especially crazy times, right?

[@scire6616]

S+ "It's written in the Bible"

[@LEGO_GrandAdmiral]

If I had a dollar for every time someone said “but the Bible says” in a science class

[@kitchenjail3546]

@@LEGO_GrandAdmiral if that happened to me, I would have no dollars. Because nobody in my school was that uneducated.

[@bv7226]

@@LEGO_GrandAdmiral Lmao what school did you go to.. that never happened in my science class

[@yoshisaurusmunchakoopas7252]

Me: So, why should I believe in God? My friend: Because it's written in the Bible!!! Me: But... My friend: And that means he exists!!! Me: ._.

[@LEGO_GrandAdmiral]

Barney arizona public schools are some of the worst in the country 😂

[@Ray-hx3rm]

Sss tier argument was the article that was “45 year old man dies, gets revived, claims god was wearing timbs

[@kzlznnero755]

Trash boat is that real

[@MapleMilk]

Well obviously God wears Converse

[@victorb5608]

Garett Crook yeahhhhhh....no. I like to imagine god as a huge naked guy wearing only timbs. Much more style than Lucifag will ever have

[@Ray-hx3rm]

Lord Xavier guys calm down I was joking. God obviously wears crocs

[@gevanilauzon2079]

“he was fresh as fuck”

[@matthijsschrijvers]

But for the argument in S-tier we might be asking the wrong question. Maybe instead of asking ‘why is the universe like this’ while looking for physical laws to justify this, we should ask ‘why are we humans in a universe with these specific conditions. This of course opens up the possibility for there being a multiverse, but if there is an infinite number of universes out there it is 100% certain that a universe with our characteristics exist, and it is the only universe we could possibly exist in which is why we’re in this one. Great video! Thank you!

[@mubaraksenju7521]

agreed. very good of you to think of it from this perspective.

[@DyarContreras]

In one song in Greydon Square’s music, he samples a Michio Kaku speech where the theoretical physicist talks about multiverse theory. Although I’m pretty sure Kaku is a believer in a deistic type of god, still, I learn a lot every time I listen to it! Good stuff. Ideas matter. Logic matters…I wish there had been more classes in public school that could have taught me that stuff.

[@fake10hourentertainment17]

If there’s an infinite number of universes than there’s probably an infinite number of exact copies of our universe. Though they may diverge down different paths at any given second.

[@TroublesomeKing]

If there were multiverses that still doesn’t disprove God, but it would disprove the problem of evil since God has created infinite universes and given all free will, the randomness of humans and the devils deception would change how evil our world would be universe to universe.

[@rini177]

by asking why are humans in a place with these conditions, are you not seperating humans from their environment? viewing humans as something that was placed in this world as an outsider rather than as something that grew out of the world where these conditons were already taking place is a relgious perspective in itself. And if the question you are asking is these conditions for life were too complex to not have been created by a god then that means that a complex being had to have made them. And if god is that complex being and complex things have to be created then who created god? and so forth...

[@uwu_yumemi]

This reminded me of a time when I attended a religious camp as a kid. The group leaders(who were adults) were posing as atheists and we were supposed to convince them that God exists. After two hours they were like nevermind and told us to forget about it lol.

[@squanchwater4715]

Timothy 2:12

[@bigsmoke6488]

​@@squanchwater4715LMFAOO

[@Space_e_e_E_]

show them quran

[@raptordarwish887]

@@Space_e_e_E_ pretty sure they cant read it

[@Valencetheshireman927]

@@Space_e_e_E_The book that treats an Arab warlord as the final prophet of god?

[@mates4958]

If god doesn't exist, who gives CJ money when he does car jumps in GTA San Andreas

[@arrivederciheheeeeee5809]

asking the actual questions here

[@fulana_de_tal]

God exists, but only in the game, that's why we don't get money when we do car jumps in real life

[@michaelm8973]

@@fulana_de_tal speak for yourself

[@robin2117]

@@fulana_de_tal eu ganho

[@fulana_de_tal]

@@robin2117 f e n o m e n a l

[@josuedelgado1358]

> god is a shitposter > shitpost exist >Therefore, god exist

[@torondin]

Ah, follower of mighty Trolldin you are.

[@jazzabighits4473]

God is Australian?

[@BlacksmithTWD]

The logic is sound. I just wonder where you got your premises from.

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

@@torondin No, you got it wrong. Mighty Loki has been described as a god who trolls people by, among other ways, using different personas. He tricked you into believing that Trolldin exists => Loki exists

[@heckinbasedandinkpilledoct7459]

BlacksmithTWD the logic is valid, not sound.

[@bradwatson7324]

Let's say, hypothetically, that the fine tuning argument is right. It only deals with the creation of the universe and nothing more. Thus, it still has at least three extra aspects about it that many modern day theists would be very reluctant to embrace. 1. The argument doesn't tell you how many gods were involved in the universe's creation; it could be any number. 2. The argument doesn't tell you whether the god or gods that created the universe continued to exist after the creation, or whether it/they exist still. 3. The argument doesn't prove life after death. The theists that I've heard make the fine tuning argument don't only want to win the supernatural creation debate; they want their opponent to automatically make the mental leap of accepting all the tenants of their specific religion.

[@kiwiofoz7954]

yeah, the fine tuning argument belongs less so to a specific religion and is more of a deist approach. you can accept it without belonging to any specific religion

[@dataman6310]

If you want to get into classical theistic arguments, cool. 1. The creation of the universe and of its aspects is the truest example of omnipotence, or the ability to do anything that can be done. 2 beings can't both be maximally powerful, because that would be an internal contradiction. Think about it this way: what is infinity minus infinity? An infinite being only makes sense in the singular. That doesn't mean that we don't believe other beings existed before creation, we do (they're called angels, they aren't omnipotent), but the being that is infinite is what we call God. 2. By nature, if a being exists outside of time, needed in order to be the uncaused cause because only a timeless being can be uncaused, it has never and will never cease to exist. If a being creates wood, can it be made of wood? Same thing. A being that creates time can't exist within it. 3. True. We have to trust other forms of revelation God has given us. Hope it makes sense! Have a blessed day!

[@V0xct]

@@dataman6310but the argument didn’t prove the beings involved were infinitely powerful

[@dataman6310]

@V0xct difference between maximally powerful and infinitely powerful. Maximal power is the ability to do anything "that can be done". Infinite power is the ability to do anything. God is maximally powerful. He can't create a stone he cannot lift, nor create a triangle with more than 180 degrees, but those are logically impossible, and maximal power doesn't account for logical impossibility. How do we know God is maximally powerful? If he created space, time, matter, and energy, there's nothing that can be done that he couldn't do.

[@conradbulos6164]

.....for being " bad" as in being " sinful". Another good news! No such thing as sin but errors in judgement which are not necessarily punishable by eternal fire(a concept to scare people) but are correctable by proper guidance, redirection or reorientation.

[@pinkdaruma8942]

there's also the fact that rarely someone is trying just to convince you that god exists, but instead that their religion is the right one, which is so much harder.

[@lukasg4807]

I mean I'd argue that 10/12 disciples died for their beliefs, even after having had the chance to recant and save their lives. From that I can reasonably assume that they genuinely believed they saw Jesus risen from the dead after his crucifixion or else they wouldn't die for it. Overall I think it's far more likely that they weren't all insane and that Jesus did rise from the dead and do miracles than that some zealots were so crazy they'd die for a lie or mass hallucination. That would be my starting point, overall there are a lot more reasons, but I find it a lot more compelling than religious/cult leaders (Joseph Smith for example) who rake in wealth, power and multiple wives.

[@typicool9083]

Before you argue that what they saw is real, you have to argue whether these people were real at all. Also the amount of mass deaths in cults and other related movements would argue your point of them not wanting to make such a lethal decision. In fact a less intelligent and older people are more likely to end up doing some like this I'd think. When you you think of characters in history that have done these extraordinary acts that end up recorded in history books and such why is their so almost no mention of these events and actions and people who took place.@@lukasg4807

[@kennythelenny6819]

​@@lukasg4807Millions of Nazis died in the world wars. It must be that the Jews were really bad, otherwise they wouldn't sacrifice joining the military to help Hitler eradicate the bad Jews. /s

[@janmes]

@@lukasg4807people can do crazy things, and I tend to veer towards the side of theoretical possibility (in this case, mass hallucination or a historical obfustication of some sort) than an option purely conceived (Jesus rose from the dead)

[@janmes]

@@lukasg4807i can completely see where you’re coming from though, it just sounds a little to me like the last argument in the video

[@MercurialMoon]

What's ironic about Pascal's Wager is that if anyone chooses to believe in god solely bc they would suffer less... I don't think god would be pleased and allow them into heaven

[@harlottebronte]

Along the same token, if the only reason you know it's wrong to murder people is because your religion tells you so, you have a dangerously low amount of basic human empathy. i meann god damn (literally).

[@dragooll2023]

In the old testament God decided to accept Abraham because he was sure that he feared him

[@sircatfaceesq578]

@@dragooll2023 Is the Old Testament still canon to the Christian fandom? I thought it got retconned when the sequel New Testament came out around 100AD?

[@dragooll2023]

@@sircatfaceesq578 I do not comprehend what you're saying

[@mr.cup6yearsago211]

@@dragooll2023 he’s asking if the Old Testament is still seen as ‘real’ by Christians, though he’s wrapped it up in a joke about Christianity being a fanbase dedicated to the Bible as if it’s a piece of media.

[@crenfick7750]

F minus tier: God exists because the Bible says he does.

[@TheEditFactory]

That'd be like saying The Cat in the Hat exists because the Book exists. Thank you for spotting out people who probably exist

[@crenfick7750]

@Doom Slayer three A tiers and a C tier, not bad!

[@marmoo5356]

@Doom Slayer God has never answered a single person as a result of prayer, otherwise the idea of "working in mysterious ways" wouldn't exist, because his reasoning would be given through his communication with his followers. Just as many people who have claimed to see heaven and hell have claimed to have seen things such as ghosts, aliens, bigfoot, etc. Human experience is fallible, especially when perception is not something that is always guaranteed to be reliable in humans (brain diseases, conditions that induce hallucination, etc.) The devil is mentioned in the bible, but his proof is never found in how people are influenced. To say he is real because the bible says he is real is the same argument as the 'cat in the hat' argument.

[@angussean8481]

@zeuytz please find evidence for your argument before spilling your opinion into the comment section.

[@KaiserYoshi2]

@Doom Slayer Bruh you didn't have personal experiences with God. Something just happened to you and because of false dichotomy and confirmation bias you think conveniently it is the work of that particular God you believe in. But you probably won't see the vid nor hear me out so at least do not have children

[@TheNightShallLast]

Great video! I do love Anselm's ontological argument that, basically, being able to imagine something makes it true. We can all sit around and imagine things all day! If you don't think this is the greatest possible comment somebody could post here, well, try imagining that it is...

[@gore0802]

The second part of xour comment makes it worth a like! lol had a good chuckle over that 😅

[@ben4thewin]

What on earth is this channel... I love it😂 personally I'm a Christian and the main reason I am willing to believe is that it's logically possible for there to be a God and obviously some people think logically possible for there not to be a God. So now I have a choice and I have decided to go with the God side because I feel there is significant historical evidence even though there is a chance it's all just crazy people or something (sometimes you gotta take risks in life and it's not hurting me because I feel like I'm able to have a relationship with God and it makes me happier even if it's not real lol). And I choose Christianity because thats what makes the most since to me. This is the first video of yours I've seen so I don't want to judge a book by it's cover, but the only thing I usually hear atheists saying is that I can't logically prove God exists, therefore He doesn't exist which is dumb. Thanks for being chill and open about your learnings and good luck on your endeavors 👍

[@Qwthetoast]

Thanks for not being a really loud and mean crazy religous person have a nice day

[@mprado1405]

Even if god doesn't exist god still gives a good set of moral values, holds you accountable to love everyone and be the best person you can be without any external force but yourself doing this. Christianity can make someone think or take a new point of view and think of everyone equally instead of being a savage although we do know how many wars religion has caused just like any difference but thank god for opening some people's mind to new ideas instead of feeling disgust which humans naturally do when they see anything different than what they are used to like (skin color, food, appearance, etc). Even if some people don't believe it has helped many.

[@bensmith4430]

Love it

[@Arun_Baliga]

This is what separates theism and deism. Theists, like you believe in god because of no particular logic. It just makes sense to you. While deist will claim that they believe in god due to logic. I think it's important for people to know this.

[@jjghjklkjhgfdrtyuik]

@@Qwthetoast are they in the room with us right now?

[@phrogman1164]

Typing "skepticism" is like playing ping pong on your keyboard

[@kevynnf.6310]

I don't know what to do with this vital and *VERY* useful piece of information -- But thanks anyway.

[@pamplemoo]

Damn you're right

[@cdogthehedgehog6923]

Skeptisicm Woah. Woah actually works too.

[@Randomguy-rc1ei]

Skepticism

[@DeNNooo]

God made our fingers to fit perfectly for keyboards so we can play ping pong by typing skepticism

[@alexarchivechannel6673]

What if every religion's god actually exist, and are just competing with each other for followers like the Earth is their social media platform or something 🤔

[@PenguinArmy413]

I think that's the plot of American Gods

[@runtergerutscht4401]

Well that's a concept that was sort of explored by riordan as well, where the relevancy of gods on the mortal world seems to be related to people having faith in them and needing and praying to them, he also implies that science works because humans believe it does

[@dominionbeats]

I mean, the three major religions (Christianity/Islam/Judaism) all worship the same God. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

[@runtergerutscht4401]

@@dominionbeats but they hate each other... Imagine being a god and all major factions of your followers want you to help them kill each other. The worst kind of interest conflict

[@runtergerutscht4401]

@ז5.אדם ג'ורנו its basically the same god, there are minor differences between islam and christianity (like the names) but its mostly quite similar, from what I know. I don't really know about the jewish god but these three religions are very related so I guess it would make sense for their gods to be similar. Isnt Jesus the son of god in christianity as well? I mean sure hes also god but why let being your own father stop you?

[@Mikaro527]

towards the end my goosebump only gets stronger and stronger. And here I thought Pascal's Wager is the best argument. Your channel is a blessing for me as an evangelical student.

[@alchemist137]

well you can twist things to augment your own world view anyways

[@xAnononAx]

The virgin "YOU WILL GO TO HELL IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE!!" vs the Chad "It was revealed to me in a dream.".

[@lol101lol101lol10199]

The list caps out at S-tier, because God-tier arguments don't exist.

[@aeahaha9268]

Underrated comment

[@welldonesir3996]

Everything came from a Powerful external force. This “force” is titled God.

[@tiagotakuceoofredacted8802]

lul

[@kimnasayao5549]

i love this comment

[@C4lmaria]

God-tier would be god literally coming to earth and saying "Hey, guys, it's me, god. I exist. Glad to sort that out, bye 👋 "

[@damdaley8092]

the SSS+ argument: im right, you’re wrong, la la la im not listening

[@gizmodo3478]

SSSSS+ tier: If you don't believe in God, ur gae . Not a totally wrong statement too lol🤣

[@impulsiveman5901]

Truly formidable

[@Dookieman1975]

There’s just no winning, in fact there’s no point arguing

[@afzerl2708]

Unfortunately we have ban those word due to it can end any argument

[@acompletelynormalhuman6392]

Honestly I've heard that more in political arguments than theistic

[@dazeddust8469]

To put an add after he says ‘it goes like this’ is criminally funny I got a clash of clans add so the argument is supercell

[@fareedosman516]

As a Muslim I like how respectful he is in his discussion.

[@spicytee133]

See I'm a muslim too, but I'm leaning more towards atheism just because so much of Islam doesn't make sense. Islam is supposed to be a pretty accepting religion too, since most muslims believe that evolution exists. It's just that certain things like "humans were made from mud and clay" or "homosexuals are bad people" are just contradicting other things they say, especially since a big premise of Islam is that we are supposed to help people and be accepting of them no matter what their beliefs are.

[@rawcopper604]

@@spicytee133 I'm not muslim, but that doesn;t disprove Islam, it just means the Quran isn't literally true

[@spicytee133]

@@rawcopper604 yeah that’s pretty obvious, but I never mentioned anything disproving Islam, I just mean that it contradicts itself very the often. For example, it says that humans were created by god from mud and clay, but Islam also accepts that evolution exists. I know that humans weren’t made from mud and clay and that we did evolve from earlier hominidae, but that is just the most common thing that Muslims say to set people apart from animals. Please don’t act passive-aggressive towards me because I was born into Islam and I’ve lived most of my life believing the Quran. I’m on the same side you are. And it’s a bad idea to make generalizations about religions by saying things like “the Quran is wrong,” because it says things that are true too and agree with science. May I ask if you are an atheist or if you believe in some religion other than Islam?

[@rawcopper604]

@@spicytee133 I am atheist, although I come from orthodox and catholic Christianity. The Qur'an says some things that are just wrong, like bone being formed before flesh when a baby is formed, and the things it says are mostly vague and unimpressive and could be interpreted in a million other ways. of course, one could say that this has some deeper meaning behind it and isn't literally true, so it really doesn't disprove anything.

[@DGT_-mv5ju]

@@spicytee133 Evolution and the creation of humans don't contradict. Humans are a miracle rather than evolution whereas evolution still takes place for other animals.

[@murilot.c3823]

where is the S+ argument "CaN yOu SeE tHe AiR?!?"

[@leannemiron]

bold of you to equate "S+" with "F-"

[@Kaiwizz]

you have never seen your brain, does that mean your brain does not exist?? don't tell me you are just convinced by looking at other people's brains, that just proves that they had a brain, doesn't mean you have one too !!!

[@betterbelle29]

My religion teacher in high school used something similar. "Can you see atoms?" I just looked at her: "No, but there are machines that can detect them" (and now we can actually see them, sorta) She just gave up right there. I still consider her to be a fantastic religion teacher. She never once graded me badly for being an atheist and I respect that.

[@MrSwag-zv3pg]

I mean, yea, that's why the sky is blue.

[@Cathee.M.]

We have the technology to detect and observe oxygen and nitrogen molecules that constitute the air. We can't see emotions either (another favourite argument), but we can observe the hormonal and electrical activity across synapses that is responsible for them. This type of argument is dead as a doornail. God fills the gaps created by our own ignorance. Because there will probably never be a time when we understand everything about the Universe, there will always be room for God. And as such, fighting against religion makes no sense. What does make sense is focusing on widespread, honest, unbiased education and development of critical thinking, and giving people the freedom to decide for themselves what - if anything - they want to believe. Religious upbringing is also not a bad thing, as long as the child has access to all the things I mentioned above and is allowed to choose, once they are old enough, what they want to do with their life without fear of ostracism or discrimination. One thing I'm sure of is that stigmatising people one way or the other won't get us anywhere.

[@YamishiMizuandDracus]

My own personal favorite: The creation of the universe was a thing that was done If a thing is done, no one does it like Gaston No one creates the universe like Gaston Gaston created the universe.

[@akiamendoza8859]

Infinity S tier

[@dirtywhitellama]

You've convinced me.

[@AntonDiwa]

you should have continued the song!

[@herlocksholmes-uv5qw]

I'm Gastonian now

[@misuvittupaa8068]

I am Gaston

[@AppealToTheStoned]

Ranking the best arguments for "God" is like ranking which hand grenade tastes best.

[@dback50]

“Haha the spicy avocado tastes like metal- 💥💥💥” - famous last words

[@ironforge039]

I love what you’ve done here Drew. Well done.

[@seb5542]

Damn. That hurt.

[@margotklein2331]

God y’all ever thought about how this man is a boomer

[@salem7276]

@@margotklein2331 the original boomer

[@ProjectAndros]

Well, its not that you DON'T exist... its that You have to PROVE You DO. And Allah has more followers on Twitter-um-sorry.

[@seb5542]

@@ProjectAndros Fuck Allah. He still hasn't given my phone charger back.

[@MrZeldafan125]

Ayyy God, when i die, i want new game plus. Kay homie?

[@rickycontreras2766]

S tier is when someone on the side of the road tells me I’m going to hell unless I repent. Gets me every. damn. time.

[@app5387]

@Doom Slayer well God never told me personally I guess.

[@porkfriedrice1530]

Do you ever beep at them rudely

[@edgemadefoxe367]

@@app5387 you need to real level 6 of charisma for that to happen

[@123telamon]

Sometimes i hear voices of jesus in my head, but then i remember im muslim and that this voice must be muhammed :) HAHAHAH im so funny

[@SeudXe]

@Doom Slayer Of course Doom Slayer himself says this :0

[@HyperTheKappa]

My personal refutation of the Teleological Argument is that the sense of "purpose" that things have and their interconnectedness is actually the product of things coming about in the only possible ways they can rather than them being designed to work in a cohesive way. If that makes sense at all lol

[@KT-fh1ql]

I believe in some form of higher power. For me, a form of the teleological argument is the reason. There's never been a point in history where we could explain everything we observe. As long as there is more to observe in space and in time and in whatever other unknown curled-up dimensions we do not yet understand, there is more to explain. In my opinion it is OK to ascribe explanations for the unexplainable while they are unexplainable; some way to rationalize what we cannot. From what we understand about the advent of life and intelligence, and from a pure probability standpoint, it seems more likely than not that something with more intelligence than us exists within or outside our universe; suggesting otherwise seems anthropocentric. For me, anything more intelligent than humanity can be considered a higher power. The big bang resulted from a set of physical laws and particles with slightly differing localized densities that precipitated the events of our universe. Where did that set of laws and particles with differing localized densities come from? I think it is not unreasonable and is comforting for any intelligence - not just humans - to believe that came from something intelligent.

[@ianbuick8946]

We often tackle this concept from our senses. But if we limited our senses, we wouldn't be able to give an definitive answer. For example, if you're blind and not knowing what a dragon fruit is. You might touch around, smell it, tap on it but you don't know what's color it is. So the same problem with tackling the idea of God. Most of people and myself a few years ago wrestle with the idea of God's existence from observable senses: sight, touch, smell and listen, etc. but human are more capable. We forgot to look inward into our soul: why are you feeling emptiness, why are you feeling there is no purpose, why do bad things happens, why i can't overcome bad habits, and so on. It deals more with relationship with ourselves and others. When our lives is good, we forget about God (even with Christian). So when you face the disaster and difficulty and suffering (everyone will just a matter of when), you will either think it critically or move on with your life. Find the Truth and the Truth will set you free. Free from what? Free from loneliness, emptiness, hatred, jealousness, self-pity. This is not a debate to win anyone over to Christ, God of the universe can handle Himself. But rather explore the human mind/psyche capability to beyond. One will hardly hear a whisper on a loudsy street. Try to find God when 99.95% of the time busying making money, and pursuit self-pleasure whether it's watching shows, drug, sex, videogame, sport, etc. and etc. When the tiny device keep beeping for notifications ramping up dopamine high and FOMO anxiety set in. Mental problem is on the rise, but people doing to themselves.

[@Bojan12]

You are wise one indeed and it is true the answer is within us in our deepest part of our beings the spirit. That is where connection to God lays and it operates on faith because it is supernatural

[@hkayakh]

“Thank god I’m an atheist” is S tier proof

[@shadowofheaven3279]

ye

[@AllenQB]

Thank who?

[@JohnnySilvercock380]

Thank Darwin I’m alive! (im an atheist)

[@smartestgirl]

💀 I'm an Atheist and use OMG/thank God so much

[@ryallissonadao-et1mk]

@@JohnnySilvercock380 Darwin was agnostic.

[@Bsznmsc]

As a Christian, I saw a great counterpoint to Pascal's Wager. Ricky Gervais said "well why don't you put garlic over your door then just in case Dracula exists"

[@tkayzzy8164]

well tbf vampires are supposed to request permission to enter so he wouldnt be able to get in anyways

[@SKKaelth]

@@tkayzzy8164 what if they dont?

[@flowercities]

well going to hell is probably a lot more significant than a vampire visiting, to most people

[@tkayzzy8164]

@@SKKaelth according to folklore they all must due to some mythological shit man. It only changed for the new age movies and all that so I say "supposed"

[@jorelldye4346]

You are not a Christian if you believe "just in case". Jesus said: "These miraculous signs will accompany those who believe: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages. They will be able to handle snakes with safety, and if they drink anything poisonous, it won’t hurt them. They will be able to place their hands on the sick, and they will be healed..." When I TRULY believed, I received miraculous power to accompany it. In example, I prayed a friend into God's presence and out of a coma when he hung himself in prison. If you haven't seen or experienced radical miracles, then you have not begun to experience the life of saving faith.

[@jbelew667]

This video is valuable for both atheists and theists. Great video

[@Li-Nuss]

I have always accepted the arguments against the existence of God and yet continued to believe in God because of the personal experience. A few years ago, however, I stopped feeling personal experience and today I am an atheist.

[@militaryfriends]

spiritual death

[@conradbulos6164]

So, bro. After achieving and reaching level 10, you decided to go down to 1 and work yourself up again?

[@conradbulos6164]

So, as an avowed atheist, you are simply and actively denying the existence of God which does not necessarily mean that God does not exist ....but only objecrively true from your perspective in your present state of your critical and mental and faith level of development.

[@SmitePlayz_]

@@conradbulos6164 you cant deny the existence of something that doesnt exists. if someone says unicorns arent real, does that theyre simply in denial that they exist? and whuch god are you talking about here?

[@legoyoda6794]

Best Atheist ever. Doesn't make fun of Christianity, and uses rational thinking to seek truth. Coming from a Christian.

[@GermanShepherd2]

Most atheists don't make fun of Christianity, what are you on about?

[@EclipseINF]

@@GermanShepherd2 well, certain atheists I've seen (on platforms other than youtube) seem to directly hate people in religions opposed to just not believing

[@Shark-pj8in]

@@EclipseINF Yep a lot of Christian's hate atheists too and basically bully them. At least at what I've seen.

[@zornstein_-9472]

@@GermanShepherd2 most ive seen have

[@robertemerson1087]

@@zornstein_-9472 Well considering you believe in a religion that thinks people will burn forever for not believing I think people are entitled to poke fun from time to time, no inquisitions or holy crusades coming from Atheists so I think you’ll be fine.

[@dolphins6010]

There is a God bc without God there'd be no devil and there's no way Legos hurt that much when u stand on them

[@overlordb1989]

Checkmate, Atheists.

[@selenea.720]

Thank you for converting me I now see the true way

[@tylerb9838]

Testify

[@RandyKaplanMusic]

Tom Waits wrote, "There ain't no Devil; it's just God when He's drunk."

[@Rodrigo-kq3js]

i was an atheist until i read this comment

[@viv8204]

I’m an Episcopalian and, while we are Christians that believe in the teachings of Jesus and the Bible, the culture of the church does not lend itself to hardcore evangelism. The nature of our teachings and practices encourage interpretation, questioning, and doubt in our faith and the Bible. For that reason, I’ve always struggled with the idea that MY God is the only correct answer. It’s a classic saying but I think everyone can be a little right even if different beliefs completely contradict each other. All this to say, I really appreciate your refutations to all the stated arguments, I am a strong believer that it’s really healthy to question your own beliefs and evaluate how you truly feel! The whole video I was waiting for the argument in the S tier because that is one of the reasons I believe science and faith can work in tandem, but hearing your refutation was a refreshing perspective ❤️ Thank you so much for your work to be respectful but make people reevaluate their views. I never leave long comments like this, but I just really wanted to express my support even as a theist. Great video!

[@conradbulos6164]

Uh, viv, I suggest that you reevaluate your position and belief in the bible as a whole cuz you really need to discriminate and isolate those passages that on its face are unbiblical like those contained in Leviticus and Deuteronomy on some misbehavior and some teachings of Jesus that are so unJesusnlike and obviously put in his mouth by writers who want to put fear in their readers or listeners, falslely using the name of Jesus.

[@conradbulos6164]

Cont....are you then calling yourself an Episcopalian theist or Christian theist which means worshipping God with your own unique forms of ritual and ceremony as a worshipping religious group more out of faith than a certainty about God's existenc

[@Countdown2Cacophony]

I found this video very informative. Thank you for sharing your opinions without forcing ideas on anyone viewing this video. It’s becoming harder to find videos talking about religious beliefs without feeling like I’m being guided to change my mind.

[@anxietyprimev6983]

SSSSSSSSS+ Tier: If you don't believe in God then you have the big gay.

[@NAJXVI]

This man just ended atheism...

[@rosaliewalford8020]

EnayjayXVI not yet

[@Callmestev]

Or small pp

[@angelashiflet6153]

@@spartanajax1831 ooooooh u gay

[@spartanajax1831]

@@angelashiflet6153 Tell that to your mom, sir.

[@darthxader1112]

My favorite version of Pascal’s wager is what if there’s a god who only sends atheists to heaven

[@felipevasconcelos6736]

If they say it doesn’t make sense, just tell them “God works in mysterious ways”.

[@rokkraljkolesa9317]

Darkmatter actually made a video titled "The greater insult" where his version of god took an islamic girl, a christian guy and an atheist guy, and asked if the other 2 wanted to switch with the atheist. Obviously, they said no, and the atheist was free to go.

[@void7366]

The skepticism in the video is so pithy and weak, as you may have already knew different sects in the religious sphere has their own concept of life after death, some do believe in a black or white (heaven or Hell) others believe they will be resurrected into other beings, some believe they will be stripped off conscioussness and become one with the universe, this guy uses big words but i promise you all of his arguments have grave deffects in them , he couldnt even refute the pascal's wager using his 'fallacy technique' nearly every atheist i met have something for this reasoning perspective unbeknownst to them, these systems were a human thought and atheist point of view is conducted by a 'moral relativism' which means that as an atheist you can use these fallacies to support your argument and you would be right and u can reject them and call them stupid, and you would still be right.

[@void7366]

@OLGaming dude literally, you're embarassing yourself, the wager is actually not an argument for God's existence 😂😂 have you ever read the oxford handbook of philosophy of religion? No? Literally it states that this is not an argument for God's existence such an argument requires evidence whether it was impirical or conceptual, this argument is to induce the belief in God or rather, make the belief in God a rational thing, don't get mad bro we're trying to have healthy discussions.

[@fluffygreysocks6703]

v o i d he’s fucking with u bro

[@Rainfire-forgets-to-animate]

I was raised Christian, but it took me until I was a teenager to truly realize that some people ACTUALLY believe in the cool magic man in the sky

[@Arabtheworld]

Believing in miracles depends on how much you believe in your religion,I don't blame you though it takes 2 braincells to figure out why Christianity is false

[@miloszandzel]

I fidured it out like a week before my communion 🤣

[@yurplethepurple2064]

Well god is so much more than a magic man in the sky, you can see god as anything that you feel god is. All that is meaningful has god in it. Things in real life are holy and beautiful. If you don’t believe in god, that’s fine. But I do because I think the world is too beautiful to not have some connective tissue.

[@speeduwagun9778]

Interesting I love how your rating about those arguments was like you where talking about CoD Builds

[@atree9284]

“If god doesn’t exist, then how did Jesus walk on water?”

[@dirtjar6332]

Damn bruh aight you got me there

[@mattz6752]

Dovahgatr then how did he walk on water?

[@uselesshero.official]

He could have had supernatural powers! Which is not the direct evidence of God's existence!

[@mattz6752]

Useless Hero then how did god exist?

[@uselesshero.official]

@@mattz6752 huh?! Wdym? How did he exist?

[@vrolijk9865]

I saw someone use the bible as an argument once: "the bible exists, so god is real!" Obviously i was baptised the next day, since this was all the evidence i needed to leave my atheïst ways

[@letroll8954]

Damn bruh, "the bible exists so god is real"? Say no more, I renounce agnostic pragmatism and will attempt become a priest posthaste

[@realmart3451]

Wait the bible is actually real? Amen checkmate atheists

[@jakelabete7412]

I'm getting baptized tomorrow.

[@hat7475]

Dang that means Batman is really to holy shit MOM-

[@butterskywalker8785]

@@letroll8954 but I also have a religious book,why aren't people recognizing me like that

[@OmniCapital_]

The teological argument has a simple explanation. The only universe where there would be people observing it is where all the constants are perfect. If they weren’t perfect, then there would be no one to see it.

[@mubaraksenju7521]

how do you know it's perfect? it's probably not, as there is another worlds having different constants as our universe (considering we've seen so little, it's ignorant to say there's no other world) but it's made 'perfect' for us by of course, none other than God almighty himself.

[@ogaboga6496]

The only problem is this only attempts to prove that the universe is perfect and not that god made it perfect

[@jameshollomon44]

Thanks for an enjoyable and informative review of the world's favorite apologetics.

[@skeptical7758]

I've always hated Pascal's Wager too, but for a different reason. Coming from a person who believes in God, I feel that if you only believe in God for the fear of what happens if you don't then it is ingenuine. I've always felt that many religious people make it way too black and white (as you stated) and simply saying you believe in God doesn't do anything.

[@midwestnagyfa]

I don't think this display of Pascal's Wager is accurate. It is meant for someone who is on the fence about faith or no faith. All else being the same, it would be better to practice faith than to not. Giving Pascal's Wager to anyone who has no intention to convert is worse than non-effective.

[@jemand7488]

That argument is the reason people are religious. The fear of what happens after death is the main reason religion was created and still exists

[@zanzull]

Also eternally burning in hell together with murders, rapists and pedophiles simply for not believing in the correct god seems rather harsh to me.

[@skeptical7758]

@@jemand7488 I disagree. Sure, it does offer some sense of security, but that is not the main reason why most (at least I) believe in God. I wouldn't call myself the most religious person, but God, or some form of it, seems like the most natural conclusion. And don't take this as me trying to push religion or anything, just stating that fear is not my reason for believing.

[@skeptical7758]

@@zanzull Yeah, I agree to a point. There is no way we could actually conceptualize Heaven and Hell or what it contains. So maybe there would be varying degrees of damnation or whatever. Maybe not. And many religions/denominations explore this such as Purgatory in Catholicism being a place for those who are good people but lack faith.

[@boiboi6847]

-z tier: The Bible said god exists God wrote the Bible God says god exists

[@colombianpanda8896]

People who witnessed were the ones who wrote the Bible

[@loganleatherman7647]

Luke didn’t witness anything. He was a doctor. There were no doctor’s in Jesus’s supposed circle.

[@biteme9869]

@Logan Leatherman what are you to say does not make any sense to me in the slightest. No because I’m stupid but because whatever you said makes no sense to anyone.

[@pepinillorick5741]

SOMEHOW way more eficient argument that everything else mention in this video... (and it is z tier)

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

Coolkidnow100 GAMING AND MORE! It makes perfect sense. Besides, if you were stupid, you would not know it.

[@rosepinkskyblue]

My problem with S tier is that we don’t know enough about the universe to rule out that these things didn’t just happen without anyone making them exactly that way. It’s highly improbable, but given enough repetitions, there is a non zero probability of the world being the way it currently is purely by chance, especially if the universe is infinite and unending. And we can’t know that it isn’t.

[@ambiverter]

There is not really a way to define probability in this context. True, the current laws of universe are needed for the universe that we see now, and even a slight variation would have made a lot of difference. But there is nothing to demonstrate that these laws came up by careful crafting, or randomly, or by some other process, or they are eternal. To calculate probability, we need a data set; observations that could show us that there were other "failed" universes.

[@Chosen1197]

I like how he'd describing each arguement like they''re videogame characters with different stats and special attacks lol

[@The360MlgNoscoper]

Tier-Atheist

[@Gabriel64468]

He is also continuously referring to a tier lost as something to rank powers. My guy people make fastfood tierlists and they aren't saying a Burger could beat fries in a fight

[@georgepetrou501]

I feel like he is passively making fun of those arguements and its so funny lol

[@chrisadamo1038]

U should watch the channel teir-zoo

[@kellmalleus5825]

@@chrisadamo1038 Isn't... isn't Skeptic Tierzoo?

[@phkun4435]

Being refuted by Homer Simpson is likely the greatest insult to any argument possible.

[@LeDingueDeJeuxVideos]

Yet I still find it better than most of the others...

[@williamwatson4354]

Its also the one that I personally agree with. The wager assumes the choice is between the true belief and not choosing it. But if you settle on a religion that God hates more than anything you're worse off.

[@CteCrassus]

@@williamwatson4354 I'll do you one better: What if God is an evil cthonian abomination like Cthulhu and such that, under normal circumstances, finds humans beneath notice but prayer and devotion attract its baleful attention? Since gods are, by definition, not subject to any rules *ANYTHING* is equally possible.

[@jordancox6634]

Juan Carlos Gonzalez while the raw belief of diety is that there are no rules there are actually religions that support the idea that god must abide by certain rules or else he would cease to be god. Just a little food for thought there.

[@CteCrassus]

@@jordancox6634 Sure, but those rules are entirely arbitrary. What I mean is that there's no hard-coded criteria to what constitutes a God apart from enormous power and, oftentimes, a hand in the creation and/or administration of one or more parts of the Universe.

[@blu8009]

Personally I find the idea of a purpose terrifying and find the thought of being insignificant and of no real importance much more comforting because no matter how much I screw up, at the end of the day, nothing really matters, just enjoy what little time you have and stop worrying about what might happen after as that just makes your life even shorter

[@conradbulos6164]

Uh, blu, what's so bad about a purpose like Jesus saying to you, "I have come that you might life and have it abundantly" No conditions or limitations. Just appreciate life and enjoy it to fullest! No should or shouldnt! It's not really the length of time that matters but the quality of time that makes it worthwhile!

[@blu8009]

@@conradbulos6164 Because that means that my actions have an impact on the entirety of the universe from the moment I'm born, which makes me overthink every single thing I do and causes me so much pain, but it works for some people and that's fine, it just doesn't for me (also I find it extremely hard to believe that someone who died over 2000 years ago and then supposedly revived is still alive)

[@jakemeyer6018]

12:56 the process described just before this could easily be used on atheistic beliefs as well. If you ever find an argument against yourself to have a point, remember the argument can often be turned and used exactly the same way against the other side. If it can be used against both sides, it is not effective, because usually the sides are mutually exclusive, as you stated previously

[@ambiverter]

Not for atheists like Drew, who are actually agnostic, and are believers of pure observations. Personal experiences have nothing to do with their position.

[@azurean7183]

the thing is, agnostics aren't making a claim.

[@Lihinel]

God tier: "Have you ever seen a tree without a tree builder?"

[@pondboy3682]

That argument is nuts! Get it?

[@definitelynotcole]

That is definitely rooted in reality. 😏

[@toprak3479]

God tier argument: Quran/Bible/my sketchbook/Necronomicon/etc. predicted __________

[@maxwellsimon4538]

“If you take a walk in the forest, and see a painting nailed to a tree, then someone must have invented the tree”

[@emlun]

Java programmer here. No, I haven't.

[@cartercopeland1956]

I would object to Pascal's Wager being classified as an argument for God's existence. It is an argument for why you should worship a God, not if one actually exists.

[@yoursonisold8743]

One implies the other. Unless you are saying you should worship something that doesn't exist, when the logic behind it is that you worship it on the chance that one does.

[@BlacksmithTWD]

@Nathan Ritchie The thing is, pascals wager is valid but not conclusive. Hence to make a conclusive argument one can't rely on pascals wager only.

[@icanfartloud]

And yet bozos including this vids star are Incapable of comprehending that obvious oversight, ironic that some won't recognize the fact that misunderstanding arguments make it impossible to point out said arguments flaws

[@BlacksmithTWD]

@@icanfartloud Could you elaborate on that by providing an example of what you are referring to?

[@dirkmaes3786]

Worship literally means expressing your belief in a deity and is really a ritual of submission. You can't worship a God that you don't accept as real - or in other words: "God doesn't make deals". It's all or nothing - so the "argument" is that God supersedes all logic and you should believe in him no matter what.

[@ronaldrrootiii6040]

I love what you said about Pascal's wager the fact that it can be applied to other religions just makes it absurd. And not only that but directly related to Christianity it doesn't even help you because God doesn't want you to merely believe in his existence and there's no way I'm going to pretend like I believe and then additionally pretend like I love and adore and I'm so grateful and worship him on Earth just in case. If he wants me to know he'll come and show me he gave me five senses. I think it's absurd if he is all-knowing all powerful all present that we have a debate on his mere existence not whether or not he's good or bad or what he thinks or which one is the right one but just merely a god at all and that's the ridiculous part. I mean we don't have to debate the existence of far less important things yet something so important and so powerful so present so knowledgeable yet oh does he even exist? LOL it's ridiculous.

[@lukasg4807]

I think Pascals wager does speak to how stupid the preachy atheists who devote so much time to trying to debunk religion are, if you're right and there is no God then it doesn't really matter, so why do you care what others believe? That's always what annoyed be about the outspoken athiest types. It makes sense to proselytize if you're religious, you think you're saving them from damnation. But if you're an athiest you think they're going to end up as dirt in the ground regardless.

[@ZeYoX-mw7sh]

​@@lukasg4807For me, one of the reasons im against some of those beliefs is that people... believe it.... and make decisions that can affect me based on it. If what they believe is wrong, their decisions will have flaws. For example, a religion that says we must condemm homosexuals. And also, i like being right. And just to add, nothing really matters, does it? We choose what we like and what we spend time on. Things only matter to us as long as we are alive, make use of that life then.

[@user-so2mj8cj1e]

Pascal's wager is basically a threat against the athiest that they will burn forever. How can we respect that?

[@richardkeck4918]

It’s not a threat it’s a warning

[@user-so2mj8cj1e]

@richardkeck4918 Christianity threatens people with permanent torture or else. If you did that outside of religion you'd go to prison.

[@richardkeck4918]

@@user-so2mj8cj1e i don’t get how it threatens anything, hell is defined by a place separated from god, and if you decide to not live with god in your life, he respects your decision and lets you not live with him for eternity

[@user-so2mj8cj1e]

@richardkeck4918 he damns you to hell for eternal torture. Which is what I was told and have read since I was 5. From an outside perspective your religion goes around threatening people with eternal torture if they don't join the cult. Yes, all religions are cults. I see you the same way just without the scary outfits like in movies. From the outside as a non-believer, you're torturers, of children even, grooming them to believe in lies at threat. Threatening to get what you want. Taking what you want at threat of permanent agony to bow, listen and love something that isn't real. This ISN'T NORMAL, it's a sickness. An idea that becomes an "idea infection" that becomes an obsession.

[@sor8104]

@@user-so2mj8cj1e the road threatens you with permanent death if you take 1 wrong step. Therefore roads shouldnt be a thing, Because you decide you want to step in the smooth road instead of staying out of it on the muddy sidewalk? this is the same reasoning you have.

[@BlueDrew10]

I considered myself Christian until senior year of high school, but I had been questioning my beliefs for several years prior. I spent the next 7 years after high school considering myself an atheist, which brought on constant challenges to my beliefs and pleas to "return to God" from my family. 2 years ago, I finally found spiritual peace. That was when I finally acknowledged that I simply don't know. The creation of the universe could've been random occurrence. It could've been created by a god. Hell, we could be the science project of a higher dimensional being in a universe sized petri dish. I'm okay with not knowing. My parents have finally given up trying to convince me of my ignorance, so we're able to have meaningful discussions about life, religion and politics without them looking down on me. When I was atheist, I was convinced that religion was evil, causing so many of the world's problems. I now recognize that evil people will always find ways to justify their actions. Religion isn't inherently evil just because it's been used to justify evil. I'm now able to recognize that many of my atheist views were just as irrational as my Christian views. If there's anything to be learned from this, it's that no matter your ideology, arrogance leads to ignorance.

[@usm1le]

That is so true. It just comes down to what you feel comfortable because you can't know if God exists or not.

[@czjns]

great comment

[@marco0445]

I really feel this comment

[@smhmyhead9184]

you sound like an agnostic, which I am too! the most logical answer to "does God exist" isn't "yes" or "no", it's "we can't know that"

[@Awesomeness4627]

Uncertainty is uncomfortable. Absolute Certainty is ridiculous

[@jensw9128]

Pascals mugging: A: Give me your wallet B: No why A: Im god and you will get infinite torture in the afterlife B: but youre most likely not really god A: Infinite torture B: Ok makes sense, here is my wallet

[@guitarpraise6035]

‘God will send you wherever you wanna go.’

[@craigstephenson7676]

If you believed in Pascal’s wager wouldn’t you want to believe in the religion with the harshest punishments for non belief just so you get to avoid it? Your chance of choosing right are so small, just do some basic risk aversion and nullify your worst option

[@jensw9128]

@@craigstephenson7676 I think you solved it. Lets start a new religion 😁

[@craigstephenson7676]

@@jensw9128 nooo that would make the odds worse

[@jeffbac1889]

@@craigstephenson7676 Let's start a religion in wich the punishment for non belief is something like "being burned for an eternity while living your worst nightmare forever"

[@seselis625]

If people bring up the argument of chance, I will always bring up the game Hades now. One of the top speedrunners put out a video talking about how and why its hardest challenge would likely never be beaten (astronomically small chance of getting the exact right RNG in the exact right order). A week later it happened. If there's a chance of something happening, it *can* happen wothout a creator.

[@arcticpangolin3090]

Another point with the argument from chance is to relate it to poker. A royal flush is the best hand in the game and has a 1/650,000 chance of being played, yet this has happened. And not only that but the chance of this combination of cards has the same exact probability as literally any other hand. Take the same deck and change any card and it’s still a 1/650,000 chance.

[@plugshirt1762]

I mean in a way it goes beyond random chance though the very way the planets and stars orbits and chemical foundations are formed is so specific that it almost couldn’t have been pure chance. So either there was some kind of god that formulated everything or as some others have stated there is a multiverse where essentially everything that can happen does in a separate universe. That or there is some third option we discover that is even weirder than those

[@seselis625]

@plugshirt1762 this argument fails in a few ways: 1) Given the vast number of astronomical bodies in all of space, it actually becomes pretty likely a viable setup would happen *somewhere.* 2) This configuration is just as unlikely as any other given arrangement. There's no reason to make any assumptions based on the mere fact that this is the one that happened. After all, *some* arrangement has to exist, assuming that the components exist. C) This argument carries an implicit assumption that the planet has to be this way to support us, when the far more likely scenario is that life grew to fit the configuration that existed. This MASSIVELY increases the probability of *something,* *somewhere* - meaning that it doesn't necessarily have to be *exactly* the conditions on our planet. Just a place that has a good mix of starting components. And since we know those starting components exist, and we know mechanisms by which they can grow to survive off what's around them, the foundational assumptions in this line of argument begin to fall apart.

[@user-je8qe6nb9y]

Why are u starting from the middle tho u need to first ask what came before hades before u start arguing for chance and hades. If there is nothing to play there can be no chance in the first place. It’s like trying to roll a 6 with no dice in the first place

[@bossinater43]

Christian here! This is the single most respectful video from an atheist regarding theism I have ever encountered. All that you said made sense and was well articulated. Great video!

[@jadon3416]

Hey man, i’m a christian who’s currently seeking truth outside of feeling. I’m opening myself up to unbiased logic as to what worldview is true. I’d like to ask if you have any unbiased reasons in which you believe in christianity?

[@DUDEBroHey]

​@@jadon3416he researched the Waco Texas Massacre and concluded if objective evil exists then surely objective good must exist.

[@Stevewilldoit96]

@@jadon3416Search Unmoved Mover theory, Aristotle discovered there was a monotheistic God 3000 years ago.

[@jadon3416]

@@Stevewilldoit96i’ve heard it, it’s definitely great but what does that prove for a any specific God?

[@jadon3416]

religion*

[@JH-fb3mp]

F Tier: "Look around you! Nature is pretty so God must be real!"

[@Viper40758]

It makes me so angry when they say that, its impossible to argue against stupidity

[@tampazeke4587]

I've actually heard that one many times!

[@leary4]

The best and brightest are now offering that what u see around you is just a repetition or a 'single" dimension which is just one off from lots of next door dimensions. The movie the matrix is also considered by them as quite possibly possible or real. You tell me which is more reasonable.

[@jones1618]

Right. Easy refutation: Muck is heaven to a pig. Similar anti-evolution argument: Look at the human body. How intricate and well-functioning it is. It could only be created by a divine Creator. Refutation: Cancer. The Appendix. The small diameter of the cervix relative to the cranial size of babies resulting in (especially before modern medicine) high rates of mother and infant death. Why would a perfect, benevolent Creator build in those features?

[@leary4]

@@jones1618 perhaps the human body is still evolving and who said god had to be benevolent.

[@nootdreamnoot1684]

Pascal's wager isn't even an argument for God's existence, it's an argument that you should believe in God.

[@keohi2539]

it's also an argument that you should believe in every infinite possibility

[@sieni221]

@@keohi2539 but u can just view the infinite of deitys as one bigger deity.

[@keohi2539]

@@sieni221 I’m not talking about just deities I’m talking about any possible scenario where if you don’t believe in something it will result in a negative consequence (eg: not believing in unicorns will cause aliens to abduct you and then kill you so you better start believing in unicorns to avoid this)

[@Jordan-th3pr]

@@keohi2539 the argument is more like "you don't believe in poisonous snakes and therefore you must know to avoid getting bitten by a poisonous snake"

[@keohi2539]

@@Jordan-th3pr but we know poisonous snakes exist so it’s not really a wager

[@waggishsagacity7947]

Speaking as a dyed in the wool Atheist, this lecture was fascinating. If nothing else, Drew is a very good explainer of both complex and simple stuff, and he's not preachy. I wonder, though, if a single Atheist ever converted back to religion after hearing any (let alone all) these attempts to convince a non-believer in the existence of a deity. To me the over-arching summary of each of them resembles the old symbol of a snake in a circle holding its tail in its mouth, aka a circular argument or tautology. Conversely, I suppose that if two or more believers try to argue which apology is their favorite. they may well reach a consensus. The problem is that, if one assumes the existence of a fact that one endeavors to prove, the result is awkward and logically wrong. For example if one seeks to prove the existence of atoms by stating that they MUST exist because what else holds matter together? is, once again the circular snake. Come to think of it, being an Atheist is terribly simple: It's the Nancy Reagan bon mot: JUST SAY NO! The proof is on you, pal: I say that he/she/it/they DO NOT exist. Prove me WRONG. Thanks for the intellectual challenge to understand what each apology means. I am now a wiser Atheist, for what it's worth.

[@krokettttt]

Great video! I would argue a few things. I agree that Pascal's wager isn't good in itself, but more so when theism has a slight edge in someones worldview. The other that I would comment on is the personal experience argument. If you dig down deep enough everyone will have a personal reason for believing or not believing in something. Rationality and science can take you a certain way in either path, but in the end it's personal belief that makes you either a theist (not just Christian) or an atheist.

[@arcticpangolin3090]

Except that this “edge” only exists if you buy into the false dichotomy. What about a god which only grants heaven to those who aren’t religious for example? The personal belief argument isn’t about the general reasons an individual may or may not believe but rather about a specific supposedly spiritual experience.

[@CandleInTheRain]

God is there but he can't hear us, he's wearing airpods

[@Xrelent]

Either that or he's Swiss. He seems to stay neutral for damn near everything.

[@eblom366]

ok deist

[@abulkalam9728]

Mood

[@imsodonewiththissh1t]

God doesn't speak broke

[@sjuvanet]

god wearin airpods nd timbs

[@Andy_Dagamer]

The way I see it, Pascal's Wager isn't designed to convert new believers to a faith, but rather to keep the current believers from leaving.

[@rostovth3220]

Bro I was literally just playing that before I watched this video...

[@billcipher8645]

That was my last stage before completely going atheist. Can confirm

[@jlee902]

@Bill Cipher same for me. Then I realized if God was real and could read my thoughts, he'd know I'd think he was evil. There would be no point in me worshipping him since i'd go to hell anyways.

[@tonyschumacher-jones1540]

Pascals Wager is effectively illogical. First, you can’t make yourself believe. You can’t force yourself to love someone, to like someone, to believe in someone you previously didn’t regard in this way. You can act it out, but that in itself is deceiving and in a sense acting to deceive - whether for a God or a partner - is despicable behaviour. Second, a God will know your are pretending to believe. They will see through it, obviously, and trying to manipulate or lie to a God is not only pointless but impossible. God, if you recall, doesn’t want acquiescence he wants love. It’s an impossible wager.

[@shawnanderson4496]

Pascal's Wager argument is very mid. It defeats the purpose of having faith. Faith is not merely a fear of hell; it is a deeming attitude towards life. Faith is honest and transparent.

[@winnumber101]

6:00 very confused here if someone can explain, that'd help: what does it mean that "the big bang isn't the first cause of the universe (time / space / matter), and is not the moment that something came from nothing, but instead only the farthest we can trace back before our understandings of physics no longer make sense"? why would there be a limit to what we can understand physically? how does that prevent a "first cause" from still occurring? wouldn't that mean there was still something unbound by time & space that would still have to initiate the universe such that the point of the big bang could be reached? (because time existing is presupposed by the argument that the big bang was not the first occurrence) i don't see how that would then refute that the uncaused would generate the first event? feel like that should be at least B tier.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

GMS is clumsy when it comes to physics. 1. Our natural reality is not causal but probabilistic. 2. Physicists have made some interesting suggestions to explain the Big Bang. None of them prove a creator god, none of them disprove it. 3. Our Universe began with the Big Bang. 4. We don't know if "time before the Big Bang" makes sense.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

Thereisnone .... in brainless bot mode, endlessly repeating the same comment.

[@quamtum5619]

@winnumber101 I hope I‘m not too late to answer to you! The reason that the Kalam Argument doesn‘t apply because its assumption that everything has a cause is from. It‘s a rationalistic argument because it‘s inferring truth not from observation, but only principles that should be true at all times. However, these arguments always have the problem of those assumptions being fallable by experiment (because the Big Bang is not a thing with a cause) Why that? Because the Big Bang Theory doesn‘t come from the rationalistic thought that everything came from one point. Rather, we can observe that the light from distant galaxies is more red than you would expect on average. That is because its wavelength is increased (Doppler effect), which can only be because the galaxies are, on average, moving away from us. If the galaxies (and with them, the universe) are moving away from Earth (and, in fact, any point in the universe), they must have been closer together in the past. If you extrapolate that to the extreme, you get the whole universe as a point. But that is just an assumption, although a well-accepted one. The reason for expansion you hear often, „dark energy“ is only a placeholder. As to why our understanding of physics collapses at this point, it has to do with information theory. (I‘m only past my first semester in Physics, so my knowledge here is rudimentary). If the whole universe would be one point, it wouldn‘t be able to carry any information at all, because information is defined by the relation of objects, of which there is only one. Because the universe at the Big Bang has no information, we have no way of knowing what it is like, which is why all of the models collapse (=cant make predictions). Thats also why we don’t know anything further in the past than this point. I think people that are using the cosmological argument to prove Gods existence think to have found in the Big Bang Theory a prove (by methods they, in that case, don‘t understand) for the existence of a thing that must have been caused by God (so a premise in an rationalistic argument), where in fact, it is only a logical extrapolation of the expansion of the universe. I hope that I could help!

[@theprofessional2884]

To answer your questions one by one: 1. We use maths and physics as a way to explain and describe the universe. Our current understanding of the universe is limited because we observe things that we can't explain. One of these is the big bang. The physics says that the universe is expanding, meaning that if you reverse time, the universe is condensing until you get to the point where everything is condensed so much that we dont know what happened before that. We know that the universe started off infinitely condensed, but that doesnt explain WHERE it came from, or how it came into existence. However, that DOESNT mean that something else DIDNT come before it. 2. We're only human and our human brains are limited. For example, we can imagine 2d shapes and 3d shapes, but if you try to imagine a 4d shape or a 5d shape, you cant because our physical understanding is limited as humans. As to WHY that is, Im not sure. We dont really need to be able to interpret 4d shapes in order to survive, so evolution didnt provide us with that ability? 3. This doesnt prevent a first cause from occuring. Something that exists beyond space and time that created the universe could exist, but that doesnt mean it was god. It could have just been another physical thing that we don't understand yet: another natural phenominon.

[@spicytoast6890]

Pretty sure the teleological argument is a textbook example of survivor bias...

[@LeothirNanirhandel]

Another defensive argument: "Satan made it look that way in order to trick us."

[@stylis666]

God doesn't love anal. #notmygod

[@lukasmakarios4998]

Second response: God does not want to force you to have faith. It must be your own choice.

[@xuerui]

Dead Sirius For that you have to know what God wants, because Satan is, I believe, the opposite of God? So Satan would do the opposite that God would want? Then you have to have evidence for what God would want. I am not a part of any religion btw just stating my input.

[@chaotic_enby2625]

Satan would be a scapegoat, if there is an all-knowing and all-powerful god, then he would have complete control over such a being as "Satan".

[@ghirahimlefabuleux8984]

@@xuerui The problem with Satan is that if all of existence is part of God then Satan and all associated to him are actually part of God. Not to mentions that Satan is an angel and angels were supposed to be manifestations of God's spirit. This would say a lot about the nature of God if it was indeed a fact.

[@acewhotalks4487]

I love how he describs arguments like a magic/ yugioh card special effect.

[@jpomsa]

Fallacies are like spell/trap card effects 😂, I think about philosophy as that kind of “game”

[@astor_25]

Lmao ikr

[@HarmzConscious]

Ofc God is real the universe is real and energies are real. Atheists are just people brainwashed by science, brainwashed by the system into thinking there’s no such things as divine powers in this universe but in reality the universe goes way deeper than you think. Coincidences rarely occur, when you think of someone and they come round the corner the same second is because you’re putting that energy into the world and the universe is just responding. I had to made a video on all this and went in deep. Stay blessed 🙏

[@lefcso]

@@HarmzConscious Brainwashed by science lmao 😂 You don't even know what are you talking about man

[@AngelEmfrbl]

@@HarmzConscious says the guy brainwashed bu religion inti having no free thoughts and to believe in what doesn't exist.

[@deathocats]

This provides excellent food for thought! Admittedly I'm less into the logic sort of stuff now, 'ultimate truth'/truths, more the "workability" of the possible options on deity, spirituality, mind, religion, culture in general. Even if I do love logic while being fallible to fallacy, & am more aware of my emotionalness & reactiveness now!

[@gore0802]

"I'm less into the logic" Atheists and Agnostics: "And i took that personally. It did became a personal offense at that point."

[@Reino_X]

Also. For the counter question "if personal xp was not at play" kind of falls off too because the whole life is a test. At some point you would hit a spike point again and, depending on where you land after that it is debetable that you would start believing then. Obvioslu humans cant just trust from nowhere. Even I with my personal xp dont fully believe, rn I believe like on 80%.

[@Bojan12]

My experience got me to believe 100%. It was just too much especially because it dealt with me personally

[@samuelking4723]

I’m an atheist. The only good argument for believing in god (not necessarily for arguing the existence of god) that I’ve ever heard is that without any practical implications, you might as well believe what makes you happier/what comforts you. The idea of god does that for a lot of people.

[@user-mt5zl4rp5h]

Yeah an idea of some higher up power being is nessesary for some people. Im also an atheist, if there was a one true god then why or thousands or millions of years since humans have been alive and able to think why has the idea of whivh god is real changed so many times. At one point alot of people beleived in Odin and those other gods and at another point believed in Zues and those gods. Why if there is one true god why would he allow people for thousands of years to worship false gods then and only thoysands and thousands years later sends down Jesus christ to tell everyone christian god is the real god. None of that makes sense, but people having wild imaginations and making shit up snd passing it down thru generations does make sense until someone else decides om a different view and then start passing that ideology down

[@pandemonium2536]

The real issue with trying to prove or disprove anything is that we're almost certainly wrong, believe in science or believe in scripture both have obvious flaws. Look back through history, how many times have we been wrong about what we thought were hard facts? The people 2000 years from now will probably look back at us the same way we look back at people who believed that the earth was flat and say "Can you believe these idiots thought that gravity was just something that big enough objects had? It was always obvious that the center of the planet was filled with flesh magnets" or some shit then the people 2000 years from them will do the same. We're all just guessing till we're dead and can learn first hand what comes after, so bet on whatever you want, whatever makes ya feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside is the best option. Or ya can actively choose to believe something that depresses the fuck outta ya, won't change that no matter what you choose you're still probably wrong.

[@ryankramer913]

Exactly! My opinion is that I don’t care about what anyone believes, just whatever makes you happy or gives you closure. As long as you don’t force it upon others.

[@Baconcatboy]

The reason I have chose to be religious is how my prayers have been answered. And i have saw things

[@samuelking4723]

@@Baconcatboy 1. You only remember the prayers that came true (and would have come true even if you didn’t pray them) 2. Everything you’ve seen can be explained rationally without invoking a higher piwer

[@leontalbuquerque8281]

Forgot one of the most powerful arguments: the gunpoint argument

[@yoursonisold8743]

Very popular in Islamist countries I hear.

[@Alverant]

@@yoursonisold8743 And various forms are popular in the US like "at will employment". No, your honor, I didn't fire that man because he was an atheist *wink wink* he was 30 seconds late one day.

[@1000g2g3g4g800999]

Not as popular as it used to be, but certainly historically effective.

[@lastxtrick2033]

Lmao

[@leontalbuquerque8281]

@@yoursonisold8743 Very popular throughout the history of all hegemonic religions. Christianism was established on Europe, America and Africa through bloodshed, as well.

[@nooffencebut8175]

I find it very hard to believe that anyone actually believes in god in this day and age… I think most people who believe in god only use it as a way to assure loved ones are in a heaven or are too scared to admit that there’s nothing

[@wondermnutsmcity638]

What about in the existence of Jesus? And his sacrifice on Calvary

[@arcticpangolin3090]

@@wondermnutsmcity638 A man existing isn’t proof of a god. People exist and people die all the time, it’s not a significant point even if you accept it.

[@yesmeanshhsofficial]

I have proof of god existence, this argument i made was the best and will make someone automatically believe I have one, but its a country story, its from indonesia. I have deepdived searching miracles in indonesia, i have found people who is invincible to bullets, lieutenant komarudin (Was a hero of indonesia country and has max level invincibility making him invincible to physical damage he was getting raining bullets yet he still survived and it is hisotry between indonesia getting colonized by netherland) was the one is invincible to bullets, also more proof there is a video where a man is invincible to bullets, he used a ring that possibly is cursed and gave him invincibility, and also a man demonstrating his "invincible knowledge" as he shoots his hand with a metal bullet and does not pierce through his hand, only leaves a scar. The indonesian people knows what level the knowledge of invincibility, Level 1 is where you are invincible to a sword, Level 2 is where you are invincible to, i think damage of sharpest swords, Level 3 is invincibility bullets, max level is invincibility to physical damage There is also ghosts that has level, usually in america, all of them is not strong enough to project themself and show their body, a ghost has ghost energy, a spirit is usually weaker than a real ghost. If you want to see ghosts, visit the ghost park thing on indonesian, you can see real ghosts (Which isnt supposedly to exist) like kuntilanak which is a ghost that can show themselves, has enough strong energy probability to possess. This country might prove god existence, if you can travel to indonesia and learn their language go to a ghost park, meet with experts that has seen ghosts. America doesnt have ghosts at all, it manifested into indonesia. This is my prove for god existence, i hope you visit the country i suggested to find god's creation (ghost) that humans dont think exists. Proof video of man shoting himself with metal bullet: kzbin.infoT1OhocPUN7g?feature=shared Proof video news of channel trans7 which is a channel of indonesian broadcast. This also was old and no, this does not use bad camera. Indonesian people back then watched it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGGUlal7m9GZgJYfeature=shared I hope you visit indonesia, it's country of supernaturality existing, which is impossible for you to comprehend, just try visiting instead and learn their language. Will make you believe god existence after visiting

[@yesmeanshhsofficial]

@@arcticpangolin3090 I have proof of god existence, this argument i made was the best and will make someone automatically believe I have one, but its a country story, its from indonesia. I have deepdived searching miracles in indonesia, i have found people who is invincible to bullets, lieutenant komarudin (Was a hero of indonesia country and has max level invincibility making him invincible to physical damage he was getting raining bullets yet he still survived and it is hisotry between indonesia getting colonized by netherland) was the one is invincible to bullets, also more proof there is a video where a man is invincible to bullets, he used a ring that possibly is cursed and gave him invincibility, and also a man demonstrating his "invincible knowledge" as he shoots his hand with a metal bullet and does not pierce through his hand, only leaves a scar. The indonesian people knows what level the knowledge of invincibility, Level 1 is where you are invincible to a sword, Level 2 is where you are invincible to, i think damage of sharpest swords, Level 3 is invincibility bullets, max level is invincibility to physical damage There is also ghosts that has level, usually in america, all of them is not strong enough to project themself and show their body, a ghost has ghost energy, a spirit is usually weaker than a real ghost. If you want to see ghosts, visit the ghost park thing on indonesian, you can see real ghosts (Which isnt supposedly to exist) like kuntilanak which is a ghost that can show themselves, has enough strong energy probability to possess. This country might prove god existence, if you can travel to indonesia and learn their language go to a ghost park, meet with experts that has seen ghosts. America doesnt have ghosts at all, it manifested into indonesia. This is my prove for god existence, i hope you visit the country i suggested to find god's creation (ghost) that humans dont think exists. Proof video of man shoting himself with metal bullet: kzbin.infoT1OhocPUN7g?feature=shared Proof video news of channel trans7 which is a channel of indonesian broadcast. This also was old and no, this does not use bad camera. Indonesian people back then watched it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGGUlal7m9GZgJYfeature=shared I hope you visit indonesia, it's country of supernaturality existing, which is impossible for you to comprehend, just try visiting instead and learn their language. Will make you believe god existence after visiting

[@UrBigSisKey]

Atheism is just as extreme as believing. If you cannot prove existence of God, then you also cannot proof his non existence

[@marknieuweboer8099]

If. Do you think believing that square circles don't exist also extreme?

[@Qwthetoast]

We have no way of knowing but based on the inaccuracys in religious texts they all could be spitting bs and whatever is out there is something we dont know of

[@hudsonstovall8119]

⁠@@marknieuweboer8099 It’s “extreme” because by the very nature of a deity. It isn’t provable. God would exist outside of our laws of the physical universe, and even of our abilities to think. Atheism itself isn’t extreme (because most atheist are actually agnostic). But it would be extreme and illogical to outright deny a deity exists. The more logical and common (among scientists too) solution is: We don’t know. A great thought exercise to prove that denial isn’t necessarily logical either is this: Person X has the lone ability to travel to a distant planet. That person discovers a new life form there, but returns back home without any verifiable evidence except their personal account. By the basis of distant species, we can’t prove or disprove this claim. Therefore, the conclusion of “doesn’t exist” would be illogical and of course wrong. That’s why the stance of “we don’t know” is most common among non-believers.