Io’s Lava Composition & Potential for a Magma Ocean | GEO GIRL

[@ilessthan3bees]

I love how much passion comes through in your presentation. I've watched like 10 of your videos and they all have "friend who just can't wait to tell you about what they just learned" energy.

[@GEOGIRL]

YES! That's literally what it is hahaha Because I always film these right after researching the topic to get all the info, so then I am super excited about telling people when I am filming LOL 😄

[@tedetienne7639]

Thanks! Another amazing, informative video! I’m old enough to remember when people were absolutely thunderstruck by the Voyagers’ discovery of Io’s volcanoes. It’s so cool how much we’ve learned since then. I’m just disappointed I won’t get to see something like an Io lander, to get a real understanding of its geology and history. Io must have some fascinating secrets still to learn about! Thanks again, and that’s such a beautiful blanket! A volcanic moon blanket is the perfect thing to keep you warm!

[@GEOGIRL]

Oh Ted, you are so the best, thank you for your support and kind comments ;) I agree, an Io lander would be incredible! But having been part of an Io mission design team that would be quite terrifying to design hahaha

[@chrisconnors7418]

I was observing Io about an hour ago. Technically, I was observing Jupiter and the four big moons were just star-like dots in my scope, so to say “observing” Io is a stretch. I was also trying to spot Neptune which is visually close to Jupiter, but sky pollution and light bands of cirrus clouds hid Neptune. Another fascinating lecture, as always. Lots of things I didn’t know despite being an amateur astronomer for 40 years (and a kid with crappy borrowed binoculars and a National Geographic star map for 10 yrs prior to that). If I make it to the AGU this year, I’ll see if I can drop by and say hello. I’ll mainly be bothering the climatologists, cryologists, palaeontologists, and oceanographers with questions, but I’ll have time to be a question-asking nuisance to the geologists too. :)

[@realzachfluke1]

I totally relate to this comment

[@spindoctor6385]

I am a recent sub, I love your work, it is appreciated more than you could know. This is one of your best so far. I am slowly working my way through your older videos. I think NASA should have already done at least a dedicated orbit mission of Io. They should be at the forefront of collecting the rarest and hardest data, leave the moon and even Mars to Elon Musk and other commercial enterprises.

[@christianhunt7382]

Great video, super informative, I'd like to think it's probably a mix between the sponge and lava ocean scenarios. What's even cooler than lava oceans might be that freaking blanket! Way cool! I want one! Lol

[@dancooper8551]

Coolest moon in the SS. I wonder if there could be a lot of radioactive elements in Io, whose decay would produce a significant amount of heat. Great video as always.

[@GEOGIRL]

Thank you! Great thought, I think the relative abundance of radioactive elements contributing to heat through decay is similar to that on Earth and other rocky bodies since they all originate from chondritic material, but it'd be interesting to look into that!

[@ketonshaw4809]

Thanks for the Sunday upload! We all love your content! GEO GIRL RULES

[@GEOGIRL]

YES! Thank you so much! ;D

[@ryanpurpura80]

YOU are one very smart Woman. I really like your videos. I often need to pause sometimes because you throw so much information into a paragraph without a full breath BUT I'm trying to keep up. Keep these up, they are great for falling asleep to, too! Okaaaaay I gotta go. Byeeeeee!

[@GEOGIRL]

Thank you! I am so glad you enjoy the videos ;)

[@ryanpurpura80]

@@GEOGIRL thanks, dear! I sent you some support for the channel!

[@GEOGIRL]

@@ryanpurpura80 Wow, you are the best! Thank you so much for the support and the kind words ;D

[@mariodegroote6756]

always an educative journey that leaves me baffled on how much humans know, and how they know it. i dont believe in fighting, i believe in working together, science is my greatest example of how it could be. geo girl;D to the point as always, and i love the blankey :D i can appreciate creativity, i paint and sculpt myself, and humble write now and then:D anyways go for it GG!

[@thejohnringo]

Another excellent video lecture, great graphics/visuals. All your subscribers are fortunate to have such a good teacher.

[@Hellbender8574]

Wow nice blanket, cute cat.

[@johnchance7836]

The thing that kept repeating in my head for the entire video is the simple fact that we have a well studied geological body sample of one. I recall reading that Venus has vastly different magma and volcanism compared to earth as well. Its hotter with a lot more surface pressure, and if I'm remembering correctly they think it was a lot more active, with slower and denser lava flows, and no tectonic plates. They also think the entire surface is very young. Again it's a "they think" thing because we haven't looked very deeply. Sort of like IO, the most geologically active body in the solar system. What do we know about it? It's small with low pressure? It has geological resonance and squeezing? Perhaps it is a lot more homogeneous than earth. That makes logical sense if it formed in a region protected by Jupiter. No early impact with another body like Theia. But who knows? I like the concept . . . "Earth" is a combination of two bodies with different structural properties and over time the different materials separated, IO isn't so you see more uniform magma. But we need to study these planets so that our Terran-Geology can become a subset of real geology. Right now we are making a lot of assumptions and some of them are bound to be wrong. They have to be because we are generalizing and making guess based on a sample size of 1. Its like me trying to generalize about "people" based on my own experience. But wait! I'm an autistic savant, a literal 2% minority. Most people aren't like me, and maybe most planets aren't like earth. :)

[@GEOGIRL]

This is a great point! We really have to challenge ourselves to think outside of what we know for Earth. The good news is that the basic chemical, geological and physical processes that occur on Earth occur the same way on other rocky bodies in the solar system. The general chondrite (bulk earth or meteorite) composition is typical for all the rocky bodies in the solar system because they all accreted from this material in the beginning. The difference is how they've evolved over time as well as slight differences in the relative abundances of certain elements (the elements are the same, but the relative abundances can vary, for example, S is way more abundant on Io than Earth), so this makes the other worlds hard to study with just 'Earth' concepts. But thankfully, we can run experiments under conditions more like those on Io and other worlds to see how the differences affect the geological processes. Obviously this is not exactly the same as going there and actually seeing it, but it's much elss expensive and helps us plan missions :) Anyway, that was just my long run-on way of saying, yes, we have to take into account the differences in these other worlds, but thankfully any body that is rocky is a bit easier to study with 'Earth' concepts than gas giants that are nothing like Earth. But yea, we still don't know a lot and we are sometimes limited by our 'Earth' centric views. But I think we are growing this sample size especially on the moon and mars where we have extensively studied geology and in the next decade or so we will do this for venus too! So exciting ;D

[@caspasesumo]

Thanks, Rachel - I enjoy so much the tours of the Galilean moons that you provide for us. Are you working on an Io mission within your NASA internship?

[@GEOGIRL]

Yes! We developed a mission concept for a dedicated Io mission and we are going to be presenting it at the AGU meeting in December! We are also presenting it to the actual NASA Io team (the team that worked on the IVO mission concept) in November as well :D Hopefully they can use some of our ideas in the next revision of the IVO concept!!

[@Evolved_Skeptic]

Frankly fascinating. Not the kind of scientific content I'd typically be learning (I'm more a biology & evolutionary history guy), but the idea of tidally heated moons surrounding the gas giants *Saturn* & *Jupiter* supporting a liquid water hydrosphere & biosphere (on moons like *Europa, Ganymede & Enceladus)* has captured my imagination for years now. Learning more about the geodynamics (?) of the only other volcanic object in the solar system (⊚) was honestly intriguing, though it certainly led to more questions. • How certain are scientists that *Io* formed from the micro accretion disc surrounding Jupiter & wasn't a captured planetessimal from the inner Solar System? (Ejected along with thousands of others through the incredibly dynamic forces in the formation period.) • What effect is the primary driver of the heat causing the volcanism on *Io?* Formation/Compression Heat, Tidal Heating, Isotopic Decay, or even Magnetodynamic Heating? (And what percentage of the heat is caused by which effect?) • Is it likely that these effects could sustain a liquid water hydrosphere (on eg: *Ganymede)* for long enough for complex life to evolve? (est. 2-3.5 billion years) ⊚ - Now. *Mars* & *Venus* have surface features which indicate a pretty impressive (Olympus Mons) volcanic past.

[@stephankeller2301]

This is exactly the stuff I have to study right now. Thank you :)

[@amacuro]

Hey I loved the lecture, thanks! I was just thinking about the subject of partial melting and how it leads to more and more felsic volcanism, due to the lower melting temperatures of felsic minerals. What if Io is so hot, or gets so hot, that the whole thing melts? Wouldn't that reset the magma composition? I don't know if Io is like the Moon, in the sense that it's slowly moving away from Jupiter? But if it is, you could see how the tidal forces that melt Io's minerals would have been stronger in the past, and therefore the create higher temperatures which would melt even the crust, and thus resetting the composition back to ultramafic?

[@GEOGIRL]

Great points! And yes absolutely, if it gets so hot it melts everything that would be the magma ocean scenario and that may be a long-lived magma ocean, or it may be something that just happens occasionally to 'reset' the mantle composition as you say, so yes, you hit it spot on! As for Io's position relative to Jupiter, it is unlike the moon because it is not moving further away. It is actually tidally 'locked' in place due to the other Galilean moons (Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto). But we do not know how long they've been locked like this. Some hypothesize that they've been like that for 4.5 billion years since the beginning of the solar system and others say maybe but we cannot know for sure, so it's hard to calculate the heat flux on Io through history unfortunately. I mean we can model possibilities but we cannot know which actually happened. (at least this is my understanding from what I've read about Io so far ;)

[@amacuro]

@@GEOGIRL thank you for the thoughtful reply. I can tell you really love geoscience. What you say about tidally locked is interesting. I never thought about it from this perspective. I'm not a physicist (I'm a geochemist) but wouldn't you see a scenario where a tidally locked object would fluctuate distance-wise? it was my understanding that tidal locking happened when the object cannot spin anymore, but it is still revolving around Jupiter, and the gravitational tugs from Saturn and/or Uranus would affect this hypothetical fluctuation? Maybe you could have a sort of "Milankovitch" phenomena on Io, where it goes through cycles of getting closer and further from Jupiter, which could trigger total melting of the crust, in a similar way ice completely melts from Earth's poles when these cosmic changes align? So maybe Io could be going through a "glaciation" period. It sounds crazy, but we have seen all kinds of crazy in our Solar System so far :)

[@fredwood1490]

Thank you! It's good to know how much isn't known about the solar system! I had been led to believe that things like tidal stretching had been understood and explained but that is not so. Good! We might remember that our own Luna was born so close to Gaia that tidal stretching had much to do with the cooling patterns of both bodies, little Io might help us understand how that worked here. I would have thought that a through mixing of Io's material would have happened by now but I seem to have gotten that backwards, differentiation rather than mixing is happening. The little moon is turning itself inside out so If not mixing, then onion skin differentiation. Would that have happened in Luna? If so, would there be metallic layers alternating with silica layers? How would that be expressed in Io? Just a thought.

[@GEOGIRL]

I think our moon cooled relatively quickly and therefore isn't as differentiated as Earth because it didn't remain volcanically active like Earth or Io have. But I actually don't know much about the aftermath of our moon's formation, I should probably look into that and do a future video ;D

[@theajshortman]

This video is volcanic! Love the Io blanket.

[@MaryAnnNytowl]

It still astounds me how much we've learned since that first image from Voyager showing us that Io has volcanoes, too. Thing is, I remember shouting and hoping around, I was so excited, when I read the news about thst discovery, and saw that very first volcanic image! Yeah, LOL, I'm that old, but I still love to learn, so the more we learn about Io (and, well, all the things), the happier I am. 😊 And absofreakinglutely, we DO need a dedicated mission to explore Io! I'd like us to hurry up, so I can be around to learn what we discover. 😉😄 Kitteh! And lovely blanket, too! Thank you, GG, for all you do. ❤️❤️

[@robloggia]

I was a bit young for the Jupiter flyby, Neptune was the first one flyby I can remember the live broadcast for, but I do remember how quickly it changed where we searched for life.

[@Belizepoppi]

It’s all CGI

[@TheGunnarRoxen]

Your videos are great. I've been sharing them with friends as I know they'd enjoy them and it also helps you. As a science fiction novelist and ttrpg designer I really enjoy the technical information on places like Io. I've spent a lot of time recently calculating water pressure on Europa as in how deep can you go on that moon compared to Earth. It's interesting stuff 😁

[@brentwilbur]

I have questions with regard to the precipitation of planets from a nebula. Assuming a celestial body has the capacity for internal material convection, denser materials tend to accumulate towards the center of mass and stratify outwards in layers of diminishing density. Does that same process occur on the larger scale of the whole nebula? Are denser materials more likely to find their way toward the center of stellar system mass? Can original planetary orders be inferred by their material composition?

[@John-ir2zf]

Yes, planetary nebula do differentiate by material density, or more accurately, by the specific gravity of each material. hence why all of the rocky planets are inward in our solar system and the gaseous planets are outward.

[@GEOGIRL]

Great questions Brent, and Great answers John! You are spot on! I love that my audience is so smart I don't even have to say anymore haha ;) Thanks for bringing up this concept, this is very important to take into account when we try to understand the early formation history of our solar system!

[@brentwilbur]

@@John-ir2zf - The concentrations of material within the cloud, I imagine, are not uniformly distributed. That leads me to a follow-up question: is the differentiation more likely to occur during a gaseous state, or do these unusual pockets condense where they are, with denser bodies sinking inward while lighter bodies float out?

[@brentwilbur]

@@GEOGIRL - Love your work, angel. Keep it coming.

[@John-ir2zf]

@@brentwilbur very true, the materials present aren't "uniformly" distributed in the early nebula, but the premise still remains the same, the heavier materials stay closer to the point of origin and condense in to terrestrial planets and the lighter gases are pushed out farther and condense in to the gas giants. Planets do migrate after formation and some of that is due to their composition but also is caused by interaction with the gravity of the other planets. And as expected, the closer, rocky planets have moved inward some since formation, and the gaseous planets have moved outward as well but they still formed with the basic idea that the heavier material stayed close to our proto star and the lighter stuff was farther away. I always have one question when this topic comes up and it's usually glossed over. Where is our progenitor star ?!?!?! LOL. The supernovae model is accurate because we couldn't have the materials that are in our system without it, but a supernovae only has two results. One is a neutron star, the other is a black hole. If the core of the progenitor star was less than 1.4 solar mass, we would have a neutron star "nearby". If the remaining core was over 1.4 solar mass (the Chandrasekhar limit) we would have a stellar mass black hole somewhere "nearby", but we haven't found either of those that could have been the progenitor. All of science and astronomy is still full of mysterious things that we have yet to discover and explain, that's why people like GEO GIRL are very important, they keep us (society in general) searching for answers !!!

[@tipsyrobot6923]

Thanks for the quality material. I would love it if you shared your thoughts on the Dryas extinction, and thoughts on whether it was ET based (asteroid) or caused by humans. I know it's controversial, but I feel like we've been lied to for a long time by old school geologists married to outdated data, including outright fraudulent studies concerning nano diamonds, etc... As they say, science progresses one funeral at a time.

[@girishkumarverma5863]

You give every details, loved it ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@KerriEverlasting]

Monday morning brain ... will comment when brain returns... 💖

[@GEOGIRL]

haha oh no, monday brain on a sunday! That can't be good ;D

[@KerriEverlasting]

@@GEOGIRL it's Monday here in Australia- I'm not that bad yet 😂

[@GEOGIRL]

@@KerriEverlasting Ooooh! Haha, ok good ;D 😅

[@ashcruz904]

Great video. I’m thinking about changing my major to geology so I’m watching all your videos!

[@GEOGIRL]

Yay! So glad you are thinking of getting into geology! If there are any topics you'd like me to cover to help you in your journey, just let me know ;) Best of luck!

[@nicholasmaude6906]

A very interesting video about Io, Rachel, now I wonder when you'll do a video about Jupiter incorporating the findings from the Juno space-probe?

[@martianmurray]

That is a cool blanket

[@AnnoyingNewslettersPage6]

Indeed. Maybe use it as a hanging backdrop for any space related videos. 🤓

[@pulsar7632]

Awesome video! I love the amount of information in it... As someone who's taking a public speaking class, however, I think that it would do you good to incorporate some pauses and try to slow down your speaking. Pauses will help to make it crystal clear when you're moving from one point to another and slowing down will help viewer information understanding/retention. There are a few times throughout the speech that I noticed you taking a sharp, quick breath. If you find yourself having to do that you should probably slow down, it's usually not a good thing to be talking faster then you can breathe. Just trying to help improve your videos!

[@GEOGIRL]

Thank you for the kind words and for the tips! I definitely speak with a lot more pauses and with a natural rhythm when speaking to a live audience, but for KZbin I've always seen very fast paced videos (like Crash Course videos for example) do really well, so I have tried to keep my videos fast paced as well, especially because people can pause the video if needed. However, I know that I am still working on getting a good rhythm and there's still lots of room for improvement haha, so I really appreciate the input! ;)

[@caiolucas8257]

Would love to see a video about Ganymede, the largest moon in the solar system and an icy world where there may be a liquid ocean underneath.

[@Beastclub679]

Very nice video....👏👏👏👏👏

[@GEOGIRL]

Thank you! ;D

[@Beastclub679]

@@GEOGIRL most welcome....🙃🙃✨✨

[@scavengerethic]

Pressure at depth is proportional to density, depth and gravity. Io has a smaller radius and mass (so surface g) than Earth. Would the much lower mantle pressure affect the melting temperature of rocks enough to make a less differentiated magma likely? (I know very little about this kind of thing, just wondering aloud)

[@GEOGIRL]

Absolutely! The pressure would have a major effect on the melting temperatures, I am sure Io scientists have taken this into account, but I don't know enough about the pressure effect to speak on it. I think, though, even if the the melting temperature is lowered, the body as a whole should still be differentiated, if not, more differentiated due to the increased melting... But I guess it depends on whether the melting is enough to fuel a fully melted magma ocean mantle or just many partially melting chambers that differentiate the surface layers. Anyway, it's a great point and I hope someone who knows about this stuff a bit more will come along comment on this thread because I am no expert! haha ;)

[@davidvavra9113]

Thank you

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Now I need to come up with evocative descriptions of sulphur dioxide frost for my sci-fi novel. Although, my suspicion is that what heat does dissipate probably results from a particle flow of hot gasses back to Jupiter, attracted by the ionosphere.

[@adriaantichler9420]

Wouldn't tidal heating also mix up the crust (kinda by definition), therefore also de-stratifying the layers? Couldn't this then be the cause of the ultramafic lava?

[@xrach2006x]

Fantastic video would be cool to stand on Io

[@spindoctor6385]

I didn't know Jupiter had another large, feline shaped moon. This is possibly alien in origin.

[@caspasesumo]

Feline moon - lol

[@meesalikeu]

distance, gravity and radiation aside, could astronauts walk on io or is it all lava all over all the time? could we land a probe, even if it only lasted a little while, like on venus?

[@GEOGIRL]

Well the funny thing about Io is that with such a tenous atmosphere it's surface is actually very cold (negative 150 degrees C)! It's only when lava breaches the surface that it becomes >1000 degrees C! But even if we take lava out of the equation, it'd be almost impossible to land on Io, not only because of the small gravity of Io but also the harsh radiation environment of Jupiter. The lava is also a problem, not becasue the whole surface is lava but because the location and timing of volcanism on Io is still pretty unpreditable because we haven't observed it long enough to observe all the global trends and really understand them. In any case, I don't think we will ever land on (or want to land on Io), not because it will always be too hard, I'm sure technology would advance to allow us to build an Io lander eventually, but I say we probably won't want to because remote sensing techniques for studying planetary bodies have gotten so good, we can probably tell everything we need to from flybys or orbits of Io. Plus if we land, we only get to see a small area, whereas if we orbit or flyby we get global coverage :D Oh and I forgot to mention, regarding humans, they wouldn't last long on Io's surface, not just because there is hardly any atmosphere so they'd basically be in space, but also because the little bit of atmosphere Io does have is mainly SO2 from the volcanic outgassing, so there would be no O2 for them to breathe, just toxic gases haha, would not be fun! ;)

[@while.coyote]

I wonder which would be more inhospitable between Venus or Io.

[@TagiukGold]

Io would be way worse, I think. High radiation from Jupiter and no atmosphere. Venus could have human missions to it, if they stay floating on the atmosphere, where the pressure is the same as Earth sea level, the temperature is comfortable so no pressure suit is needed.

[@robloggia]

Oh man I didn't think we were going to get Io based on the poll. I'm so happy to have been wrong.

[@GEOGIRL]

Well the poll was for last week! ;) So I posted the dino video last week and Io this week :D

[@Beastclub679]

Happy diwali geo girl...

[@GEOGIRL]

Thanks so much!

[@Beastclub679]

@@GEOGIRL mossst welcome..✨✨✨😃🙃🙃

[@Inlocked]

Can you make video about minning and economic geolgy because at the end our aim is only money(economic )

[@Inlocked]

Whats your qualification and which is your Major subject

[@timfoster4979]

Beautiful and crazy intelligent

[@_andrewvia]

How did a ball of gas and dust (the pre-solar system material) gather into a disc to make the planets?

[@_andrewvia]

Ah, centrifugal and centripetal forces, according to the informed opinions of the most knowledgeable people.

[@onesunghero]

I wonder if Io's lower gravity is slowing differentiation.

[@williamchampagne1028]

So pretty and intelligent!

[@stax6092]

Neat.

[@thelostone6981]

All these worlds are yours, except Europa…. Literary reference aside; very interesting!

[@AlEndo01]

Wonderful presentation (as usual)! Note: Everybody but Americans pronounce the moon's name as "Eeeh-oh" - after the daughter of Inachus in Greek mythology - and still another paramour of Zeus....

[@GEOGIRL]

Thanks! ;D And yea I am aware that it's technically pronounced 'ee' o, but most NASA scientists pronounce it 'I' o so that's what I do haha. But I do still here some say 'ee' o, so I guess it's just personal preference :)

[@realzachfluke1]

@@GEOGIRL Wait, _REALLY?!_ There are people who pronounce Io with a hard "e" instead of a hard "i"? omg, that nakes it sound like *Eeyore* from Winnie-the-Pooh!! now I'm imagining Io as Eeyore, and nobody can tell me that isn't just the cutest thought in the world to think about 🥹 It makes so much sense too if you think about it. Io is probably all doom and gloom because there's lava all over its surface, and that lava is preventing it from [easily] having *friends, and tiny Earthlings* over!! And then it's probably all _pessimistic_ and _exhausted_ because that big ol' Jupiter is yanking, pulling, and tugging Io back and forth *constantly,* preventing that poor moon from getting any real sleep!!! lmao I'm so glad you brought that up, Al, thank you, that was super fun to learn as an American!!!! 🤜🤛😂

[@mortimersnead5821]

We should send a dedicated mission. And it should be called EIE-IO.

[@mspicer3262]

If NASA was given one-quarter of the US defence budget for one year, they could send a mission to all of the coolest moons and planets. Which is all of the ones we don't live on. Don't get me wrong, there are some cool places on this planet, I'm just saying we don't need NASA to get to any of them.

[@LuisAldamiz]

I was hoping it was made of cheese... but guess silicate polymeres is good enough.

[@rs86]

If you bury a lava lamp, is it now a magma lamp?

[@GEOGIRL]

Lol absolutely ;)

[@johndocherty-273]

What happens when lava meets the vacuum of space 🤔

[@GEOGIRL]

It shoots up to incredible heights! There is even a regular transfer of material from Io to Europa (another moon of Jupiter)!! :D

[@johndocherty-273]

@GEO GIRL believe I've seen images of lava lakes on io, could that be crust on there that glows(in infrared perhaps) and the main plume effectively vapourizes, abit confused trying to picture it

[@nicholasmaude6906]

Io could be called the Pizza Moon, Rachel, due to the appearance of its' surface😉😁.

[@GEOGIRL]

Yes! That is what my team and I called it all throughout our internship when we designed an Io mission! haha

[@dinos9441]

Born in moon 😶

[@janklaas6885]

©️14:12 im only here to enjoy your beauty. 😃

[@erictaylor5462]

I doubt there is a cat in orbit around Jupiter.

[@martianmurray]

Cheese? Thumbnail looks like cheese.

[@GEOGIRL]

Haha a lot of people call Io the pizza moon ;)

[@martianmurray]

@@GEOGIRL ooo even better, move over Titan I have a new favorite moon

[@a.randomjack6661]

@@GEOGIRL Mmmmm Pizzza 🤤 Bon dimanche ✌

[@altair458]

Thank you👍👍👍👍

[@KoalaMeatPie]

Tha blanket is really cool! - I've been folding origami since age 4, so I get ya. - Question, How do you make a blanket?

[@GEOGIRL]

Wow that's awesome! I just buy the fleece from a fabric store then I cut the designs out and sew them into one big piece of fleece :) They are VERY warm blankets! Definitely not something I could use in the summer haha, but great for winter ;D