Superheroes Are Lame Now

[@smjaiteh]

I think the biggest issue with the idea of superhero fatigue in general is that it’s mainly caused by the absurd momentum of the Hollywood train. Once they pick a trend, they will spend half of the gdp of the industry on it, and make it impossible to pivot for years and years. It always ends in an abrupt crash or nobody is onboard and they have to shut down service to stop wasting money.

[@manyseas1219]

They need some experimental shows and movies in between their formulaic ones to keep their IP relevant.

[@gamiezion]

PIVOT

[@luciuswhite4502]

I think the new DCU that James Gunn is planning could be something interesting in a new and experimental direction, but his support of The Flash, even if it's mostly for PR reasons, has left me a bit puzzled. Marvel is another type of stagnation, but it's hard to predict if they will change their course or not.

[@dandagames6030]

I feel that the success of the spiderverse might bring some change to the industry

[@Luxia-f1e]

@@manyseas1219thats not something most companies are willing to do cuz remember, companies money dont really come from sales, it comes from investors and stock owners. and investors are as brave and smart as deer. They will flee in droves at the slightest hint of losing money. and experimental shows, while good in the long run for stable profits, can have short term losses. But that will send the investors into a panic and can do so much damage short term that long term profits no longer matter.

[@theonebman7581]

Part of the reason I just stopped seeing superhero movies is because I honestly can't be bothered to watch 15 other movies, or getting D+ to watch 50 shows, just to be able to understand a single movie that most likely won't even be good

[@zero1188]

Issue is they need to go back to self contained movies. No one trying to watch 50 other movies plus 20 tv series to understand one movie

[@Horvath_Gabor]

In theory, the MCU phases are a self-fueling cycle. You watch the individual movies because they are good, now you have context for the big finale that builds the hype and delivers the catharsis, so now you're more invested in the characters and the world, and therefore you'll watch the movies of the next phase. In the last phase, the MCU botched this hard, with all of the movies ranging from meh to astonishingly terrible, and by chasing the "multiverse" as the next big thing, they completely undermined the consistency of the setting and the characters, meaning people have even less reason to care and watch the next installment. Case in point, the end of your post. In Phase Two, I was happy to watch stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy, even though it was a C-tier team in the comics, because the movies had a track record of being really, really good. With the MCU's current track record, I would have to be mental to go into the cinema expecting a good movie just because it's part of the franchise.

[@Meowblivion]

Now you know what it's like to be a kingdom hearts fan 😂😂😂

[@Meowblivion]

​@@zero1188that's kinda what star wars is lowkey doing by sticking to their low budget tv shows

[@jonahabenhaim1223]

I think Spiderverse is changing that statement

[@lamentable.mp3]

The problem for me is I think the fact that the stories of superheroes no longer have a human side it feels like. Like in the first iron man, the story is about tony, and how the world forced him to become a superhero, whereas in newer marvel entries it feels like things only happen to move he plot, and there is major lacking in character development as they would rather have blatant fan service.

[@hulahula6182]

too many "women", me no likey

[@thatdude7750]

I agree, that's why i feel across the spiderverse had a great story. It was a large multiversal story, but it was still very focused on the characters. A very grounded story

[@alexinfinite7142]

They're trying to pretend to tell a story instead of just telling a story

[@dragon_nammi]

​@@alexinfinite7142Huh, maybe that's why Shang Chi seemed pretty fresh?

[@alexinfinite7142]

@dragon_nammi I didn't watch it but I hear good things. I hate saying it but the flood of poor quality stuff has just bumped me away from movies in general. It's not fair that I didn't give this one a chance but it's been hard to get excited with the way films have been 😮‍💨

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

It's not the superheroes, it's the bad writing, the increasingly bad CGI, and having to watch half a dozen TV shows to stay on top of everything. It's not fun anymore.

[@jarrodedson5441]

No kidding

[@chriscortez2036]

Yeah, Spider-verse & the recent Guardians of the Galaxy supports that. Superhero movies can still be enjoyable, it’s just the quality has been all over the place in recent years.

[@ojpickle5923]

​@@chriscortez2036diamonds in the ruff

[@claudiobizama5603]

​@@chriscortez2036self contained trilogies Yes please, I'm not watching any boring ass series to understand a movie

[@mdrstudios7067]

Plus the lack of vibrant colors and a overrelience of taking things too seriously in order to be realistic despite having fantastical characters and as well as using crappy music scores for their commercials.

[@klulu-kun]

Both the makers behind Spider-Verse, and James Gunn, have commented that people aren't sick of superheroes but rather emotionless films. Most superhero movies now are failing to be unique and have that emotion that can link to anyone, superfan or not. It's simply the fault of bad writing.

[@kingace6186]

Very true. This should be top comment.

[@VigilanteLulu]

This right here!

[@OldQueer]

I'm sick of superheroes. There are so many more interesting things based around real life they could be making. Been sick of this stuff for ages now

[@jonahabenhaim1223]

@@OldQueer But I think spiderverse gave in some needed life

[@OldQueer]

@jonahabenhaim1223 no interest in that either. I feel like I've just been completely overwhelmed with superhero stuff for so long that I can't even be bothered to see that. No idea what all this multiverse stuff is too

[@comm154]

I don’t think it’s “fatigue”, but rather we’re just uncomfortable with how they’ve continued to milk a series we felt was an excellent closing to a once-in-a-generation movie franchise.

[@RealogOnlyBrodie]

I genuinely think there is fatigue in the general public, the die hard fans will always be there but for a brief 6 year period, superhero movies dominated the box office and everyone and their mother was invested. Now it’s just the five neck beards watching and following along with all the 20 projects the mcu releases every year. Superhero movies are starting to fade back into nerd culture slowly. Batman and Spider-Man will always be exceptions as they are more successful than both of their universes as a whole.

[@Bustermachine]

@@RealogOnlyBrodie This, pretty much. And y'know what, I kinda preferred it that way. There's something very unnerving when your hobby falls under the spotlight glare of corporations salivating at all that sexy SEXY intellectual property they're gonna monetize the hell out of . . .

[@Yugophoto]

Also the fact that they are all interconnected now, You can't get the whole story without watching EVERYTHING, and many of the movies arent good on their own. Its just.. exhausting. Most of us just want to be entertained for 2-3 hours, we don't want to have required reading as a prerequisite before we hit the theatre. marveldisney doesnt seem to understand that the buildup to endgame was unique and is a once in a lifetime thing. They arent going to pull it off again, especially so soon. Endgame was a peak because everyone was excited to get a conclusion - the fact that it kept going anyway kind of burnt everyone out.

[@nonsonomoltobravoconinomi1531]

@@RealogOnlyBrodie making the main series into movies is also not a good format for so many interconnected stories, a TV show might get a bit less people or whatever, but it's far easier to sell audiences on a long TV series than 70 movies throughout the years. people kind of expect movies to be somewhat self contained by nature, and anything beyond a trilogy is seen as taxing for the average viewer unless the franchise itself is so simple and barebones in terms of story and action heavy enough that you can just hop in any movie and not care about the plot like fast and furios, but even then I'm not sure how well they're doing in the box office. in short, people don't seem to vibe too much with a movie franchise that seemingly goes on forever, especially if it requires to watch what feels like an overwhelming amount of spinoffs to fully get the main Avengers movie franchise, they'll tune in if the films are actually really good, and or if it's about an actual mainstream character like Spider Man or Batman, or even characters that have become popular thanks to the movie adaptations like the og MCU Avengers or the guradians of the galaxy, but no one gives a fuck about Ant Man, he's for all intents and purposes a filler character stuck between a cast impossibly charismatic for him to stand out and compete just as many other characters who inexplicably got a solo film or series do. plus the movies' inconsistant quality and fuck load of cinematic universe copycats that crash and burn before the first movie is even done makes people feel an oppressing over saturation of the genre looming over the entirety of cinema, which isn't totally accurate cause there's plenty of non super hero films and stuff out there, but on a mainstream marketing level that's what it looks like. plus on a small maybe nitpicky tangent, all superhero shit looks the same, sure the costumes and hero names change, but it's always set in a fictional or real modern day city in America with some added scifi bullshit that somehow doesn't radically change the setting into something more futuristic, so even the superficial esthetic and world building always looks samey across different franchises, it's always the same pseudo New York sky scrapers and shit we've seen a billion times. compare this to the japanese super hero equivalent, the shonen genre, which is stuff like Dragon Ball or Naruto, as a gnere it still has shared core themes and tropes across multiple series like a themed power system, a focus on the training to get powerups, and a JRPG like party as the main cast, but everything else at least LOOKS different, it can be about ninjas, pirates, martial arts, Samurai, fucking fire fighter, and even classic western style super heroes, it's something that might not go beyond esthetics some times, but it still helps making the overwhelming popularity of the shonen genre feel less over saturated, compared to Super heroes who are only ever allowed to exist in a modern day looking urban setting.

[@emred4653]

İts called disliking something not being uncomfortable

[@jadzzzz]

It's not fatigue, it's disgust. These movies aren't movies, they drop you in sequel bait ridden half stories that somehow still manage to follow the same formula every time, and it's just a whiplash and a snorefest at the same time. Truly impressive. Not to mention that I honestly can't be fucked to prepare a doctoral thesis every time I wanna watch a goddamn superhero flick geez. IMHO engaging with a movie should come from a place of unpacking what it's saying and how it relates to you (or others) if you're into intellectual viewing, or its sheer dumb emotional spectacle if you're into that, both are valid. It cannot, however, completely depend on its own wiki for its hard-core fans to go "I know that thing!". That's an exam, not cinema. I'm so sick of self-referential auto-fellatiating half movies thinking they're doing something with this, because it is fundamentally built on gatekeeping as a form of engagement. I can't believe the MCU didn't see its endgame with this strategy.

[@cyberklashnikov3062]

Remember the older marvel movies still worked as their own movie and still built up to something big? Like you meet the characters then they all meet up in avengers and they beat Loki and you're brought into something bigger out there and it built upon itself but still was there own thing and now it's literally homework the best superhero movies coming out now are guardians of the Galaxy Three The Batman (which came out a year or two ago but I'm still going to include it) and across the spider verse because they are either self contained stories where all you have to do is either just go see it or watch the previous movie in that series along with them actually having great or at least good characters and writing and not super shitty cgi it feels like a movie and not a CW tv show

[@the11382]

Plus putting the bigger characters on the background while having diversity hire characters take center stage(like captain marvel). I liked Thor until they kept destroying most of his worldbuilding, have Jane as "thor", and kept depowering him.

[@whyishoudini]

@@the11382 this comment screams 4channer who doesn't get laid, you're complaining about "diversity hires" in fucking superhero movies. My nephew is 7 and he likes Captain Marvel. Cannot imagine being this level of pathetic

[@peterroberts4415]

Combine that with an industry that hates half of the population. Frankly, I haven't been to a movie theater in about a year

[@jordanfelt5978]

​@@the11382how do you figure the Captain Marvel is a diversity hire? Like the actress who plays the character literally looks just like the character. And yeah maybe she has some ridiculous super feminist beliefs outside of the movies but that doesn't necessarily make her a diversity hire. So unless I'm missing something I think you might be a bit confused.

[@Wilderness-Will]

Comic book characters are lame again. We've come full circle!

[@bryandacote8109]

They always were 😂

[@haydentcem]

@@bryandacote8109 Incorrect

[@Bogaloo1232]

@@bryandacote8109eah, but they were trendy for 20 or so years, now not even that. Back to being for hardcore nerds and 12 year olds.

[@djhjh9686]

Nah I still have my favorites like Spider-Man and Wolverine.

[@luigifan001]

Back to the locker, nerd.

[@fallen7111]

Great analysis. One thing I think you forgot to mention is that at the time the MCU started the model of an interconnected universe was a new thing in film. You used to have sequels and sometimes prequels and that's it. Nothing like a shared universe outside TV shows or animated shows. So by the time Avengers 1 came around people started to keep up with these films to see where it was going. After Endgame wrapped it up the general public and causal viewers started to not really care that much anymore because of fatigue and dubious quality.

[@futurestoryteller]

"Fatigue and dubious quality" - I think it makes more sense to focus on the fact that after 23 feature films and a great finale most of the casuals were ready to pack it in already.

[@as0482]

​@@futurestorytellerThat they got to 23 feature films and a finale is the biggest feat in of itself.

[@futurestoryteller]

@@as0482 Yeah, I would be surprised if many of them watched every one, but they must have been invested in enough of them to mostly make it through to Endgame, so the point mostly stands

[@Yugophoto]

the cinematic universe was unique and novel, but also most of the movies stood on their own pretty well even only knowing the basics about the hero going in. There are some exceptions (cough*ultron*cough) but you could watch any random movie out of order up to infinity war and generally have a decent movie experience. Now it seems you have to keep up with everything to really know whats going on - thats too much work for all but the most dedicated fans. I certainly don;t have time in my day to watch every movie and series as it comes out. I think this is why spiderman, especially the animated spiderverse seems to be relatively unaffected by "superhero fatigue". The spiderman movies are still good on their own and you don't need to know extended lore of the rest of the universe to understand whats happening and have a good time. Plus spiderverse is doing new and interesting things with animation

[@NTJedi]

As soon as Avengers End Game finished then Disney went full force with mary sue characters, race swapping, gender grooming, etc., etc., . The movies were no longer about a good man discovering super powers to fight evil... the Disney movies were about pushing feminism, gender grooming and race swapping. When multiple Disney movies began failing at the Box Office, instead of Disney recognizing their mistake they continued pushing their woke agendas while calling the fans bigots, racist and other names.

[@FOF275]

It's very easy to close yourself off in the fandom bubble and think everyone outside it thinks like you. Been heavily into discussions about the MCU, but this video was a pretty big reminder that most people aren't on Twitter or KZbin discussing movies after they watch them. They just return to their lives and are pulled in soley by marketing and past experiences, so these flops are regular disinterest

[@cwega2463]

that’s what I think when I view videos like the one 3CFilms makes. I like his videos, but he’s so obsessed with the fan base side of things that he forgets the general public isn’t aware of any of this. He blames The Flash’s failure on the general audience just wanting to wait for his new superman movie when the DCU starts, but most audiences don’t even know that the guardians director is now head of DC.

[@the11382]

"It's very easy to close yourself off in the fandom bubble and think everyone outside it thinks like you." Too many people make that mistake, too little people know that mistake exists.

[@HennyESP]

We call that "having lives" which people that tweet alot usually don't have.

[@worsethanhitlerpt.2539]

This is why Kick Ass is such a good movie it deals with the real consequences of being a hero instead of just mindless action and explosions

[@FOF275]

@@worsethanhitlerpt.2539 Kick Ass was so good

[@jame407]

Showing that Guardians of the Galaxy and Spider-Man are still doing well doesn’t make them outliers, it shows that when a character is used well in good movies people will care. Marvel isn’t playing to the fans anymore, they’re just deluded into thinking people will watch anything. People aren’t fatigued of all superheroes, they’re fatigued of the mediocre ones, which tends to be most of them.

[@MattMcIrvin]

But these movies are sequels playing on affection for existing characters--we may not be in an environment any more where something like the original movies they're sequels to could break out.

[@jame407]

@@MattMcIrvin equally as many sequels are flopping, they just have to make good movies to come back.

[@woaddragon]

I don't think Spiderman is fair since by definition, an outliner. it " owned" by Sony and Disney and despite having multiple reboots, sequels and it own darn Spider verse (thing that other people had complained about.). It still Make gang busters in terms of money and reputation.

[@jame407]

@@woaddragon that’s fair enough, even TASM made bank when people didn’t like them. But I do think Guardians still stands as an example of a good superhero movie doing well because it’s good. I guess I just feel like this whole idea of superhero movies getting too much is coinciding with mostly bad superhero movies, so until we can get some better ones people aren’t going to care about them.

[@Tyler_W]

This exactly. It's worth noting that the successful examples of superhero movies and shows just so happen to he the ones that are without question the best of the bunch. The only real exception to that rule is The Suicide Squad, but that had other issues, and the fact that it's followup show, Peacemaker was very popular and that The Suicide Squad has gained a much better reputation in hinssight goes to show that there's more going on behind its relative lack of success at the time. Of all of the stuff post-Endgame, people generally still like Joker, The Batman, The Boys, invincible, Spider-Man: No Way Home, Peacemaker, The Suicide Squad, and now I think it's safe to say Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 3 amd Spider-Man: Across the Spider-verse. People just want good stuff. Unfortunately, most of what we've been getting since 2019 just isn't very good, amd with belts getting tighter, pepple aren't inclined to fork over money to something people aren't saying is worth seeing. Superhero adaptations will absolutely decline as the general public's hottest trend, if it hasn't been replaced already. Hollywood wants to make video game adaptations the next big thing, for better or worse, but it might also end up being westerns and maybe hardcore scifi on TV, and lower budget gritty action films on the big screen. With All that said, however, now that they've been firmly established, althoigh people will he more selective and picky, I think the genuinely good ones that actually have heart and character will be properly rewarded in the box office. I would welcome higher quality 2-4 movies like we used to get instead of the gratuitous 6+ of lower quality that we've been getting these last few years.

[@etexpatriate]

Another factor is that for a lot of casual viewers, Avengers Endgame was a satisfying conclusion, and they didn't need more. They weren't interested in superheroes as a concept unto itself as much as they were those characters, and three of the most popular reached the end of their stories in that film. Marvel continuing the overall MCU can feel a bit like a comedian trying to spin along a joke well after the solid punchline landed, the audience's laughter waning with every stretched moment.

[@Blaze6108]

This is me. I'm not a superhero fan and I didn't particularly like Marvel movies either, but there was definitely a cultural value and social interest in seeing a few of them and Infinity War / Endgame. I am annoyed at some of the screenwriting stereotypes ('Marvel humor') that the series brought, I am happy that the ultimate message left by the series is one of a flawed but ultimately good man learning to work for the greater good up to the bitter end. But that's it, it's over now, my friends no longer talk about it and everything that could have been said about the cultural impact has been said. I think a lot of people are in my shoes. The lot of us were drawn in by broad cultural and social interest, for the memes basically (the DNA of the soul, as we know!), but many people were never really into Marvel specifically and definitely not into superheroes in general.

[@OfficialRob]

Giving characters from shows nobody has seen their own spin offs to combat dwindling viewing figures is an interesting strategy

[@petrfedor1851]

Best since attacking under the cover of daylight across mine field! The last thing they expect.

[@roloboog]

I dont see why they would divide production/ marketing costs between an obnoxious amount of films in a short amount of time instead of putting that effort into one or a couple of films. Like, I get why Family Guy and Spongebob pumps out new episodes with no end in sight, but those are tv shows, the viewer isn't expected to leave their house and pay a fee every week to see something mediocre.

[@ryice944]

​@@roloboog2 reasons they did tv shows to try different stuff (from genres to how they hire actors was all being played around with) and also give Disney plus content to put on it

[@ErmenBlankenberg]

@@petrfedor1851 I understood that reference!

[@AwesomeHairo]

Woke strategy

[@legendaryweegee5331]

I don’t think people are necessarily tired of superheroes, just tired of cinematic universes. Instead to trying to tell coherent stories, the movies in these cinematic universes spend more time advertising each other

[@petrfedor1851]

I for years compare cinematic universes to TV shows but it didn´t occure to me they operate on Sherlock "keep watching, it´s gonna be good sometimes in future" formula!

[@CyberLance26]

Most of the DC movies stopped doing that after Justice League because that movie did not get any popular.

[@runnerduck4844]

Yes! Just make standalone films!! Yes, I know nothing succeeds like success, but not everything needs to be tied together.

[@enn1924]

YES, this is what I have been thinking about Just look at The Batman and Spiderverse, both succesful and enjoyable movies I would also assume that is easier to write movies inside of their own umiverse, because on cinematic universes you have to consider other bazillion characters, rules and events, while also setting up the next project

[@Hawkatana]

@@Dave102693 Sherlock was just a British Soap Opera anyway.

[@FarazMazhar]

You calling out Multiverse of Madness as a turning point is spot on, at least for me. This is when I basically completely stopped caring about Superhero movies. Up till that point I had pretty much watched every Superhero movie in cinema and mostly on the opening week. I don't have Disney+ so I hadn't watched WandaVision but at least I was aware of the plot to some extent but honestly, even I had Disney+ I doubt I'll ever be able to catch-up anytime soon and I am saying this as someone who used to watch CW's DC shows with great interest.

[@futurestoryteller]

It would not be remotely hard to catch up with Marvel's lame-ass six-episode-per-show timeline, especially if you watched The SeeDubs. The question is whether or not it would be worth it, which the answer is no.

[@kevinnac1]

Yep

[@jkacvbhijfn]

@@futurestorytellerCW stuff was a decade ago. you could’ve been a kid who didn’t have as much responsibility back then and now simply don’t have time.

[@futurestoryteller]

@@jkacvbhijfn No it wasn't a decade ago, it ended this year. Not to say you're entirely wrong, but being pedantic about it, it's zenith was also fairly recently, as it turns out. The fact is there just are way, way, way fewer of these Marvel episodes, so comparing them as if "this thing is too rich for my blood" in a case where the problem is more a personal matter of time than an actual oversaturation would be shortsighted in itself. Maybe we're forgetting that these films exist primarily to sell toys to children anyway. If you're an adult who doesn't have time for them, maybe you've aged out of the demographic whether you like it or not.

[@Levicandoit]

I would become thoroughly invested in the MCU again if they announced projects like Terrance Howard and Don Cheedle fighting over the War Machine title

[@tjenadonn6158]

I've long said that the movies to be made about the making and unmaking of the DCEU are going to be far more interesting than the movies comprising the DCEU.

[@poop7807]

⁠@@tjenadonn6158wym

[@EBFilmsMan]

I think TH should come back to be Kang if Majors' legal troubles force him out of the MCU. Vengeance!

[@who3730]

@@tjenadonn6158That would honestly be really cool

[@MikeJAk49]

I would love a top quality blade movie again like the first two.

[@PhilHug1]

I think it's two problems: 1. Bad writing 2. So many interconnected movies and shows coming out on an annual basis that it feels like homework to keep up. You can say this is a superhero fatigue of a kind but it's about the total number of superhero shows and content on an annual basis, not the movies themselves

[@BigWheel.]

I think content volume is the Crux of the issue. There can be such a thing as too much. And within the past few years general content creation has been up across the board, this includes everything from videogames to movies to KZbin. There's simply SO MUCH content to mindlessly consume now, and most of it isn't worth the time to begin with because it's either setup or filler. There's basically so much stuff fighting for our free time and attention spans, and all of that stuff wants more dedication from us than we're willing to give it. I don't have the time to keep up with every daily event and battle pass in a game. And I don't have time to watch every single episode, spinoff and movie of a franchise either. At a certain point most people will hit the wall I did, accept that they aren't willing to keep up with a franchise and they just resort to becoming a casual follower of whatever it was or they find a new interest that's less demanding and more rewarding.

[@PhilHug1]

@@BigWheel. yeah. Back in the day, the MCU only released 2 or 3 movies a year. That was manageable

[@yesmansam6686]

😂 the actual reason I don't want to get into comics. I think this is why I like manga more. They're mostly confined to just their story and they are expected to have a conclusion. It makes them less confusing.

[@Emery_Pallas]

Look, I’ve can remember seeing like, 5 superhero films to the ending ever (Spider Man 1, Both Spiderverse films, The Batman and Civil War), I didn’t even remember or know some of these films or shows mentioned here even existed. Like, I don’t think any human being could physically watch all of these anymore without losing their sanity.

[@Emery_Pallas]

@@BigWheel. Might be a bit off topic but I’m the set up bit, I think there’s (at least for the new spiderverse film) also a problem with that set up having no internal payoff to make it feel like it was worth watching this. Like in other 2nd part of a trilogy things I can think of they tend to have some sort of self contained conclusion, but feels weirdly absent there, like the 0.5 A press of media Is this just a problem with Across the Spiderverse, or is it happening with the rest of the superhero film genre and other media? Because I can really see why people aren’t interested if you’re going to see a new film in a series only to be given a 2 hour advertisement for next year’s film. That would be really frustrating

[@dragonrykr]

I remember back when Avengers Endgame dropped and I said I had superhero fatigue, nobody believed me and I was constantly told I am bluffing and that the superheroes are the next big thing. Seems like I was a few years early lol

[@marktheshark7588]

Endgame was terrible and overrated.

[@marktheshark7588]

@RealCashTok ,Same here.Especially Spiderman NWH.That movie had alot of story issues.The reason why it does be given a pass by some people is because of the over reliant of nostalgia in the movie.

[@heinoustentacles5719]

I had superhero fatigue back in 2016 bruh get on my level.

[@toasterman5412]

It was ultron for me lol

[@csmlyly5736]

Honestly Avengers was itself already too much at the time. The overton window of how much superhero movie was too much shifted rapidly once they got rolling.

[@eddieford9373]

It's not about superhero fatigue. It's bad movie fatigue.

[@Vaquix000]

It is about superhero fatigue too, plenty of people in the comments are bored with them. They pumped out too much of this and it's old.

[@mr.punisher5100]

@@Vaquix000 It's not that though, spider verse 2 and guardians 3 did well. It really is bad movie fatigue

[@eddieford9373]

@mr.punisher5100 I'd say both of those are good movies. People will go see a good movie, even if it's a superhero movie.

[@eddieford9373]

@@Vaquix000 spiderverse and guardians did well. A good movie will sell.

[@Snipfragueur]

​@@Vaquix000Plenty of people in this comment are not, considering that this video is catered toward people who are, that should tell you that this is not true at all.

[@Krusnik66]

The fourth phase of the MCU should've been the Epilogue phase that brings the stories of the remaining superheroes to a close. Some of the movies kind of accomplish this like Dr. Strange and Spiderman.

[@Vindicator_SD]

Yah disney needs to pick up a dictionary and read up on what closure means, because their universe thst has been going on for 15 years needs its nice bow and send off because we already got the big grand finale in endgame, all of this big second build up is completely and clearly an afterthought and is hurting for it. But that would mean not having mcu phase 11 entry: ant boy and squirrel girl 3: whiplash's birds wreckoning

[@lumirairazbyte9697]

@@Vindicator_SDIn Capitalism Hollywood, the word “closure” is not on their dictionary. They prefer to reboot or revive a mainstream popular franchise, rather than just risking it for original ideas. This is the reason why Disney greenlighted Toy Story 5, despite 3, being 100% the definitive one.

[@christianali5431]

​@@lumirairazbyte96974 was good.

[@jaymadre5996]

Your closure is infinity war and end game nothing past that needs to exist

[@hellblazer1086]

I agree. It's why I pretty much only accept Far From/No Way Home, GotG Vol. 3, and fanedits of Black Panther II and Thor Love and Thunder as canon. A series of epilogues that close out the stories of (almost) everything that wasn't wrapped up in Endgame. Depending on how Deadpool 3 goes, I might include it as well in my own personal Phase 4 headcanon.

[@davidhitchcock6599]

12:22 I really loved it when you used footage of Buzz Lightyear of Star Command in place of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3. People really need to talk about that series more. 😅

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

It sucks that is not on Disney+

[@davidhitchcock6599]

@@kittykittybangbang9367 I COMPLETELY agree; you know, oddly enough, I have actually heard people say that Buzz Lightyear of Star Command was actually like the “ORIGINAL Guardians of the Galaxy” or something. 😂 But yeah, it really is a shame. I think they don’t own the broadcasting rights because it was a joint venture or something, and instead of paying for the rights, they just want people to forget it exists. It truly is a tragedy. That new Lightyear movie was garbage; they could have at least TRIED to make it FEEL like the original, even if they didn’t have the rights to the characters, but they couldn’t even do THAT! Because we HAVE to forget it exists, remember? God, it’s such a pain. Thank God for Dailymotion. Cory in the House is another show that definitely needs to be on Disney+. Maybe Dean could do a video about “What if Cory in the House was real”? That would be funny. But at least you can buy that show in ONE place digitally; on the Apple TV service (for an extra charge). With Buzz Lightyear of Star Command, you can’t even do THAT… *sigh* 😔

[@saulcervantes1975]

Best part about this video is the very last sentence. "I'll write a better script next time, I promise." This sums up basically every superhero movie in the last 4 years with very few exceptions

[@thanosandnobill3789]

I was already disappointed by Eternals and Doctor Strange multiverse of madness. But for me, the breaking point was Thor Love and Thunder. As I was watching the movie, progressively I felt more and more astonished at how dumb it was. When it reached the scene with the son of Heimdall I felt so insulted by the terrible acting and especially the horrendous CGI that I stopped watching it and never watched again another new MCU movie. Maybe I will make an exception for Guardians 3 only because many people told me that is good.

[@flyingsquirrels83]

❤

[@nunyabiznes7446]

Guardians 3 is in fact not that good lol it's a 5/10 movie made into a 3/10 by being 2 and a half fking hours long. Only 45 minutes of it is worthwhile, save your money and time

[@KingKevin108]

The only good scene in Thor Love and Thunder was in black and white when the main characters couldn't open their damn mouths

[@cyberklashnikov3062]

Guardians of the Galaxy is actually great it finally doesnt connect to the greater world it's a contained story around rocket

[@d0kda4e]

@@nunyabiznes7446☠️ bro is smoking catnip

[@benmellenchip5392]

I think Superhero films are more going the way of the Zombie media where there is still a committed audience but ultimately it'll only be watched by the public at large when its only thing on TV or with the few exceptions where the word of mouth manages to spread far enough to actually reach the average joe.

[@futurestoryteller]

This really overstates the popularity of zombie media, which, forgive the pun, has always come in waves.

[@caralho5237]

Disney is losing hundreds of millions because they keep making cgi fests The superhero blockbusters cant stick to a small audience, they need to be widely marketable. In the least, we're gonna lose those movies and be left with stuff like the joker, watchmen and other lower budget stuff

[@markmunroe-hz8rf]

Don't forget vampires and YA fiction, especially dystopian.

[@PlasticDragon3d]

I think you are right but at the dame time zombies are way more cheaper than this CGI clusterfuck of superheroes movies

[@Brambrew]

13:12 "Spiderman is an outlier" Exactly, Spiderman is in a league of his own. He's Stan Lee's boy. Never forget Stan Lee's last words: "God bless. Take care of my boy, Roy."

[@Vaquix000]

I always thought Spiderman was the only cool superhero, and too cool to be in a crossover with all that other crap. Should have been it's own thing.

[@rrai1999]

@@Vaquix000 yeah i dunno why but i feel that way too. he's just kind of cool while the rest seem like theyre trying too hard. batmans parents got murdered in front of him and he acts like a teenage boy or young adult male with daddy and mommy issues. superman looks like he's about to go swimming in a competition and fresh out of 1951. not to rag on them too bad i just think spidermans got something cool about him that they just dont

[@DakotaofRaptors]

More of a Daredevil guy

[@bit_ronic]

@@rrai1999 at it's core, spiderman's just a random dude in a suit, he almost never has an overly tragic backstory, or grandiose godly duties, he's just a chill relatable guy with spider powers who decided to save people. spiderman's design also allows for practically anyone to self-insert themselves into the suit, in spiderverse alone you got peter parker, jessica drew, miles morales, gwen stacy and miguel o'hara, and all of them can be called "spiderman/spiderwoman", adding more spiderpeople into the mix helps with the initial idea of peter parker being a random-ass guy in the first place. the other heroes demand attention, and always look cheesingly "mighty", but spiderman is always just kinda there doing his thing, even the mcu knows this, cause he got introduced in a random-ass captain america film by doing a flip, stealing captain america's shield, and saying "hi guys :D" he never tries to be cool, he just kinda is.

[@marktheshark7588]

@@rrai1999 ,Bro,if Spiderman's that cool.Then why he's getting cucked in the comics by a dude name Paul.

[@timeweaselproduction]

The wakeup call for me was seeing Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. Not only was the movie poorly written, but it was hard to understand who Kang was, since I never watched Loki before seeing the movie, yet the writers never elaborated on his backstory for people like me that aren't subscribers to Disney Plus.

[@racool911]

He's a multiversal conqueror, I thought the movie made that clear. Watching Loki won't significantly improve your understanding of him.

[@Vaquix000]

@@racool911 Some normal looking black dude is a multiversal conqueror. That's even lamer than Thanos who was basically a buff truck driver covered in purple paint. The only thing cool about his design was the infinity gauntlet. At least he was big and beat up the hulk. Kang just has a bunch of copies. Neither interesting or intimidating. The whole multiverse thing does not raise the stakes, it lowers them because if someone dies you can just get another one from another universe. They screwed up ever since they brought in that concept.

[@casper2694]

@@racool911 I'm a huge Kang fan and I gotta say the movie did not make it clear, had it not been for me watching Loki s1 I wouldn't have seen Kang as the threat that he is. I was looking forward to this movie because Kang had a pretty cool albeit confusing story in the comics, and I was hoping the MCU would be able to better explain his origin story like they did with Thanos. For example, in the comics we know Thanos has a crush on Mistress Death, the embodiment of death, and because of that dude goes on a rampage to obtain the Infinity Stones just so he could win her heart, that's just cringe. In the MCU, they changed it, Thanos's home planet of Titan was facing overpopulation so he proposed genocide, but ofc no one was crazy enough to do that except him, so Titan dies and Thanos now thinks he's some kind of messiah and goes on a universal killing spree. Now that's awesome (except for the genocide part) As for Kang, in the comics he started life as Nathaniel Richards, the 31st century descendant of Mr Fantastic and possibly Dr Doom, who happens to be a scientist who, thanks to how peaceful the 31st century was, has a fascination for ancient history, specifically military history, he was inspired by the ancient conquerors of old and wanted to be like them. So dude builds a time machine and travels back to ancient egypt, where he creates his first identity as Pharoah Rama Tut, before being defeated by the Fantastic 4, after that he becomes the Scarlet Centurion and fights the Avengers but also loses, prompting him to return back to the 31st century. Unfortunately his time machine malfunctioned and as a result he goes further in time and lands in the 41st century, where earth is set in a post apocalyptic world ravaged by war, where world govts no longer exist and in their place exists warlords instead, it was pretty much ripe for conquest, so Kang quickly adapts to the technology of the time, builds his suit and becomes The Conqueror, successfully subjugating earth under his rule. Complicated, but pretty cool except for a few parts Now here's Kang in the MCU, we learn in Loki s1 that Kang was a scientist in the 31st century who discovers the Multiverse and begins interacting with his variants, trading knowledge and technology, but ofc not every version of him was good, so eventually a multiversal civil war breaks out between Kang and his variants, but ultimately he wins by using a creature called Alioth, establishes the sacred timeline and the TVA to govern the multiverse. All this was from Loki s1, and as expected the writers managed to refine the MCU version compared to the comic one. In Quantumania? We only got glimpses of who and what Kang is, and worst of all the movie doesn't even bother to explain how Kang managed to conquer the Quantum Realm, how he created his army. All we got was Janet saying that once Kang got his suit back that was more than enough, so what did he just create his army out of thin air? Worst of all they didn't show his main power of time manipulation like in Loki And of course he got beaten by ants, atleast the writers should've let him win

[@futurestoryteller]

It's pretty weird to see someone complain that a movie was poorly written while accidentally telling on themselves that they didn't pay attention. Kang is literally set-up more in Quantumania than Thanos is in any Marvel movie that's not Guardians of the Galaxy. Which means that if you thought a sentient tree and talking space raccoon looked as embarrassing as Thor 4 you were more out of the loop for Infinity War, than anyone who watched Quantumania sight unseen.

[@Nathan-ko4ih]

Yeah, you know there's a problem when you relate to the villain more than the rich powerful "superhero" with no weaknesses.

[@futurestoryteller]

Tony Stark starts his journey near fatally wounded, threatened with his own weapons, imprisoned in a cave, surrounded by only scrap parts to aid him. They've forgotten to make an effort to ensure the heroes are at a disadvantage to keep the audience invested. Although, to be fair Thor did face off against a guy dubbed "The God Butcher"

[@csmlyly5736]

Pretty much the core problem of the superhero genre is that the hero is unrelatable.

[@pn4960]

@@csmlyly5736nah it’s bad writing.

[@caralho5237]

​@@csmlyly5736Nope. Many superheroes are relatable. Nowadays though when all characters are girlboss mary sues thry're becoming urelatablenas fuck

[@SJ-qd6ev]

Not when those villains are MCU villains😂, most villain like terrorists flagsmashers are just "victims" nowadays

[@jamesgeorge7579]

Is it just me, or does it feel like a lot of superheroes don't even have cool, unique powers anymore? They all just run fast and punch really hard for the most part, a few can fly. I want to see heroes with weird powers.

[@magnusprime4928]

I mean a lot of them have super strength it’s a really common power and the ones with the cool powers aren’t on the big screen yet

[@Antwannnn]

That's bc the mcu has given everyone personal Iron Man suits, with Iron Man first person pov, a type of super soldier serum, and star lords nanotech helmet. The X-Men should shake things up tho. Hopefully

[@asapling]

Yeah like I wanna see stuff like Squirrel Girl (a girl who can summon an army of squirrels), Dog Wielder (dude who wields dogs onto other people's faces and cannot stop), or Matter-Eater Lad (dude who can eat anything).

[@tjenadonn6158]

I know Alan Moore abhors film adaptations of his work, but seriously an adaptation of his interpretation of Swamp Thing could be just the shot of high weirdness the MCU needs right now. Give us something unhuman.

[@mithos789]

but thats what people love. wanda has weird powers and everyone hates her. i loved it when she removed that guys mouth.

[@asfm2]

I thought I had an understanding of what the general public's knowledge was about these things, but I actually got a little surprise regarding that a little while ago when I found out my parents thought The Mandalorian took place before the prequels.

[@olivercuenca4109]

Well considering that people kept talking about 'Baby Yoda' even though it wasn't actually Yoda at all, I'm not surprised.

[@actualturtle2421]

If you think that's bad, I only ever saw the original Star Wars and I know almost nothing about anything happening in the Star Wars milieu.

[@concept5631]

That's fair, but wouldn't the B1 (B2? The big grey hunka from Clone Wars) battledroids _at the end of the first episode (if I remember right)_ give away that it was taking place during or after the Prequels? This could just be feeding back into your point, but I'm curious.

[@WarnarI]

The other problem with Wanda Vision and Doc Strange 2 is that neither production talked to eachother. For evidence, Wanda in Wanda Vision learn an important lesson in the show when it cane to using her powers... which seemingly she either forgot it or said F* it for the movie. Theres more out there, just mentioning this one.

[@RealogOnlyBrodie]

Elizabeth Olsen herself called that out in an interview 😭😭😭 no wonder both the actors and writers are on strike

[@no_player_commentary]

Its also weird in the fact the whole thing that set of wanda vision was loosing vishawn & trying to get him back, to suddenly obsessing over two children that she had for a couple weeks at best & scouring the multiverse to be the ultimate child snatcher(When I think about it who knows if the multiverse kids are even real). When a rebuilt vision is actually flying around exsisting instead of looking for him & try making babies, she instead is busy stealing children, stalking & trying to murder a teenage girl + many others & being a horror movie monster. And its like huh! You cant use evil books influence as a excuse.

[@dateris]

@no_player_commentary Yeah, Dr. Strange 2 is what ultimately made me lose interest in the MCU. The jump in Wanda's journey between WandaVision and Dr. Strange 2 was way too large. Dr. Strange 2 also did her character dirty. Like sure, she was progressing down the villain route in WandaVision, but it was a much more careful and thoughtful approach to give the character room to breathe. Dr. Strange 2 just hit her over the head with the out-of-nowhere evil book and made her into some sort of straight-up-evil villain from the horror genre who may as well have been a completely different character. In some ways Dr. Strange 2 would have been better if they used a different character than Wanda.

[@MakiPcr]

The movie and show imply that the book corrupted Wanda and I assume that's why she's evil now; but I realize that's me doing the work for them

[@matthewmspace]

I can kind of agree with this. Most people just go and watch a movie because their friends say it’s good or not. Everyone winds up hopping on a trend. It happens in games, books, movies, etc. And the superhero trend is dying out because everything feels the same and, as you outlined, forcing people to watch Disney+ to understand what’s going on does not work. It’s a similar problem to the comics. People might like a certain character and read their stories and maybe a few others, but mostly they’re not going to give a shit until there’s a crossover event which just leaves them confused. Honestly, I’m decently invested in the Marvel stuff, but there’s some shows I still haven’t bothered to watch like She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel because they didn’t matter at the time to any overarching plot. But now to understand The Marvels, I have to watch Ms. Marvel. Which is just annoying that I need to watch something in another medium for so long to get why she is a thing and what she’s going through. I feel like half of Marvel’s projects will get canned (looking at you, Echo) or just have their plots added to something else. It’s even been said Armor Wars was a TV show and now is being reworked into a movie. Honestly, if something just isn’t working, they’re better off just cutting it out before they spend an obscene amount of money on it. Like with The Flash. After all the trouble with Ezra Miller, they should’ve just vaulted it and cancelled it. Blue Beetle is coming out soon and even in some of the DC fandoms I see online, no one cares about that movie. I certainly don’t. Sure, he’s also in the Injustice games, but how many normies have played that? Also, the CGI increasingly looks like shit because the artists are too overworked. Which then hurts the next bunch of movies because if one movie has shoddy CG, then the next ones after will be presumed to be the same.

[@xguy2950]

Fr like why tf are youall getting mad over the lines from the suit in the mcu💀💀(and also i aint reading allat)

[@NamesForDogs]

I think another part is that all of the superhero francises are stuck in a 'Moffat escalation loop.' For those unaware, Steven Moffat is best known as a writer, producer, and showrunner for Doctor Who and Sherlock. During his tenure on Doctor Who, and for the whole run of Sherlock, the shows became very popular. Part of this success was due to the fact that he and his writers would do a great job at building excitement and tension across episodes, and across seasons. Mostly by undermining every satisfying conclusion to an episode/arc by making the stakes higher. The problem is that you can only escalate that excitement and tension so much before people get fatigued or frustrated, or until you have no room left to escalate to that isn't ridiculous, past the point of parody even. Of course, Moffat's shows aren't the first examples of escalating stakes and declining quality. The Die Hard franchise, for example, starts off with a cop and a terrorist in a building. Or Star Wars starts as a story about a farm boy rescuing a princess. The difference with Moffat, and now the superhero movies, is that you need *really* good writing to keep people engaged after the stakes have been raised ridiculous high.

[@razahyder8541]

Well considering Echo is completely finished and is releasing in November, I don’t think they’re going to scrap that now.

[@tompatterson1548]

It’s a similar problem to the comics. People might like a certain character and read their stories and maybe a few others, but mostly they’re not going to give a shit until there’s a crossover event which just leaves them confused. I read trade paperbacks, and for those trade paperbacks they just need to include both sides of the crossover in the trade paperback, and no problem. It's only a problem if you get the individual issues.

[@pizzahuthonoka]

This is why I like The Spiderverse movies so much. You don't need to watch any deep lore shows, mediocre streaming filler, or watch a bunch of recaps to know what's going on. Knowing about all that stuff just makes the experience better for Easter eggs, but you can still grasp the majority of the movie going in blind.

[@FantasmaOlvidado1]

spider verse 2 was terrible. So bad and exhausting that I think I will never go back to the cinema. a 2 hour trailer

[@nombregenerico7775]

​@@FantasmaOlvidado1Exactly. Spider-verse 2 is pure dogshit

[@omegaprime9794]

​@clownworlddisorder12 did... did you even watch the movie, bro, That shit was art.

[@ablone]

​@@FantasmaOlvidado1name fits the comment

[@purplepenguin005]

​@@FantasmaOlvidado1WHAT?!

[@kotharianlightning]

Personal Opinion, Super-hero (and to a certain extent general cinematic fatigue) is a combination of the following: - Superhero movies are almost always CGI heavy which massively inflates the budgets. However, CGI spectacle isn't a major draw anymore, especially when it's as rushed and poorly conceived as is apparent in many of these projects. Avatar 2 is probably the only recent film that has an actual draw based on CGI (and substantially less compared to the first film). CGI is often employed to compensate for poor visual design and the visual effects studios can only do so much to compensate for that directorial failure. - Superhero films aren't generally well written or profound. They've usually been ok-mediocre on the scale of quality (with a few better written exceptions), but have been dipping into bad more frequently. They've tried to cover for that flaw with spectacle, but there have been diminishing returns for spectacle since the mid 2010s. - Part of Marvel's popularity was that seeing the films was a way to be with the cultural in-crowd (something DC films never really had). However, that isn't the case anymore. If anything, it's become the opposite. - Movie tickets are too expensive now. Superhero films are, at least theoretically, typically aimed at families with tween-teen children. Being with a family only compounds the pricing issue. - Streaming or watching a DVD is more convenient, cheaper, and is done on a person's own terms. This is not to mention that KZbin and Gaming also are competing for watch time. - The Internet has led to an era of media saturation, where everybody has access to a massive amount of past and present content. This means that it is much harder for individual pieces of media to stand out now. Books have suffered massively from that trend as a media source, followed only slightly less profoundly by music. Video Games and TV series weather the pressure better simply because people spend more time with them. Movies would already have to stand out to succeed in this cultural environment, but it seems like hits are becoming more uncertain, including from the nostalgia well. And one also has to wonder what nostalgia looks like with anyone younger than a millennial, or if it'll even exist with the speed of media and trends being milked to disillusionment. 🧐

[@jet1977]

I dont think the problem is that there's superhero fatigue, but its that there's lots of extra shows that are forced down your throat and the new movies being made are bad/mid and they have bad CGI, lazy writing and mid acting.

[@santiagogarza8121]

Film producers have been trying for years to find a formula to phone it in and still be successful. They just don't understand that the formula for success is to NOT phone it in.

[@Feefa99]

Problem is that superhero movies lost mojo when they become equipment of cheaply made fast food rather than good meal prepared with love that's how art should be done and Disney is pushing lame versions where CGI artists and writers are push to their limits without proper compensation. Unfortunately that's how capitalism works it's profit over people as much as possible. So I think they will use AI "solve" this issue.

[@malicekerendu3574]

I'm not tired of superheroes. I'm tired of bad writers and directors

[@DeconvertedMan]

they on strike! And... no one seems to care.

[@crustman5982]

@@DeconvertedManbest thing that can happen to movies and tv shows is to completely fire every single writer in Hollywood and replace them lol

[@wjsproductions1784]

Ah yes, the underpaid, overworked writers who can’t afford to pay rent. Let’s blame them instead of the ultra rich studio executives that force them to churn out bad stories rather than letting them tell the stories they want to tell!

[@chidieberenwadike4165]

Tired of both...

[@Metaknight145]

​@@wjsproductions1784This is pure cope. The absolute worst dogshit in recent memory are from them allowing writers to come into established franchises and shit them up by ignoring everything about the franchise and the rules therein to do whatever they want. Like the Last Jedi.

[@TheJohnnyCalifornia]

Westerns usually come up in any discussion of Superhero Fatigue for obvious comparisons, but it would be interesting to look at an economic analysis of the decline of Western films, televisions shows and fiction. As far as the Hollywood Western, it wasn't simply audience fatigue that affected it. It was also the fact that the locations where these movies and shows were produced were more valuable as property than as locations. So, either the studios needed to pay more or they needed to start making shows and movies with much more affordable settings and locations. In the late 60's and early 70's, when the studio system fell apart and it looked like cinema was dying, the contraction basically killed most major expensive productions. It wasn't simply that audiences were fatigued by Westerns, but they were not interested in cinema in general. Also, there were a lot of alternative options for entertainment as well. However, at the time (and maybe even to today), the most financially successful Western in Hollywood history was produced in 1974 - BLAZING SADDLES. Just a year later, the popular television show GUNSMOKE would go off the air after 20 years pretty much ending the dominant Western genre on television. So in regard to Superheroes, green screen and special effects have replaced the location problem. Heck, almost all shows use it. If there was a popular Old West series on television now, I imagine it would be just as effects heavy to recreate the 1800's period setting as science fiction shows today use effects to create a futurist setting centuries from now. At the same time, though, there is a lot of economic pressure to exploit effects houses. The effects are a big part of what people go to superhero movies to see and in (post)production budgets, they are the most squeezed and really depend on maintaining heavy competition between effects houses to force them to provide higher production value and diminishing costs (and almost no profit). I think in financial and economic terms, that is where the fatigue manifests most greatly as some big-budget movie series are looking increasingly worse as the industry is destroying a big segment of its own fundamental infrastructure.

[@RestingJudge]

Happy to see someone mention the property angle. It's also why even modern westerns (Hell on Wheels, Yellowstone, and even Outer Range) typically are set in the plains or mountains of Wyoming, but are usually filmed in New Mexico or other cheaper locations. Hell even in the 60s and 70s they were filming in Spain for the same reason.

[@griffinharp1106]

I think it’s less people are sick of superheroes and that people are sick of every superhero movie having the same plot

[@lorenzomeulli750]

And being written the same fucking way. Try to guess what recent superhero movie has been widely beloved? Yeah. Exactly, Across the Spiderverse. The one that DARES to be honest and embrace its premise rather than being all funny and sarcastic

[@marcus3445]

Its more like a bad movies fatigue. Bad movies always existed, but in this age of information, people can see if a movie is bad or good, or in another words, if their investment will worth, before really watch it. The movie industry is suffering the same problem as "live service games", people only have a limited amount of money and time to spend on anything, so people will chose more carefully their options. Also, because of the Herd behavior, and people's necessity of "belonging" to a group, only a small number of movies will drag any attention, the rest of the industry will fail hard.

[@redwolf1015]

It's starting to turn into what comics are like now: depending on which movie (comic) you grab, you may or may not have to watch(read) or research this other movie (comic) to know why this Spderman is actually Doc Oc who possessed and took over Peter parker's body.

[@crediblesalamander8056]

I haven't seen the video yet, but I've heard this before and I will repeat it here. People aren't tired of superheroes, they're tired of mediocrity, People can't be "tired of superheroes" while simultaneously buying enough tickets to see The Batman, GotG 3 and Spider-Verse that they're all massive successes. Heck, Invincible and the Boys are both superhero shows and they're also massive successes. If it's good, people will watch it. I don't think it's more complicated than that.

[@petrfedor1851]

I thing it´s more interconected universes fatique. All of your examples of sh thing that were reasonably popular are stand alone things (with Guardians as partial exception since they are mostly self contained), often with some level of meta comentary about genre. And Spiderverse succes build on word of mouth from first one.

[@quetzalcoa]

The Boys turned the superhero formula on its head and went a completely different path to the rest of the genre, thats what makes it unique. It said "well, what would really happen if certain people had civilisation destroying powers... They would become the worst people imaginable!" and ran with it

[@KhanMann66]

Spider-man used the mutiverse but it actually doesn’t feel boring.

[@quetzalcoa]

@@KhanMann66 It used a self contained multiverse though. You didn't need to watch 10 different movies to understand it, It was a self contained plot

[@sirlimen333]

They are sick of superheroes, though. There comes a point when these writers and directors can't deviate from the pattern, so they end up running out of ideas. Even Spider verse was not as successful as Disney and Sony were anticipating (besides the fact that the spider verse movies were carried by their art direction and not their plot).

[@synthkilla9927]

It’s called “Bad Movie Fatigue.”

[@alphamarigi]

Genre fatigue causing the bad movies

[@Bustermachine]

I do think it's not just the quantity of super hero content, the back catalogue as it were, that's leading to fatigue. But the sheer tempo of it. It was pretty cool to go see a marvel film when they only came out once a year and were basically self contained stories. Now it's once a quarter along with two limited series a year. Never has capitalism found a thing that makes money and then not tried to make it make infinite money, after all.

[@otakubullfrog1665]

It's true that the tickets sold to the comic geeks alone aren't enough to make a successful blockbuster, but I think the people behind these franchises have severely underestimated the value of their support. Not only will they buy tickets on opening weekend if they're excited, but they'll hype up the movie to all their non-geek friends and coworkers. When those people are looking for a movie to watch on the weekend, they'll remember that new Marvel movie and figure it's probably a good one because Tim from accounting said so and he's the guy who knows about comic book stuff and the superhero movies he says to watch are always good. Free publicity and grassroots support helped make the MCU into the zeitgeist it became and I think that turning off the superfans is costing them more than they think.

[@concept5631]

Only one way to find out.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

Good point. I watched the first Avengers movie when it came out. It is not because I am a superhero fan. It is just due to the hype. My mom heard about the movie at work. Then she took me to the theaters, and both of us watched the movie. Neither of us were superhero fans. Yet we watched anyway. The movie was okay. I liked the two characters based on Norse mythology, Thor and Loki. That was my first entry into the MCU. I watched more movies. Overall the movies are okay. They are pretty fun, but they aren't worth obsessing over.

[@verbage432]

Thank you for talking about the general public and their relationship to these films. Glup Shitto not returning was not the reason this movie was a box office bomb

[@thedapperdolphin1590]

Yeah, this is so often ignored. Fans get so heated over things that 99% of the audience doesn’t even know exists. Star Wars fans are a big example of this.

[@FishBola1991]

This also shows how miraculous it was that the first Avengers’ “arc” of movies succeeded. The margin of error was reeeaal thin for any entry lest the momentum of the franchise sputter out. I am happy we got to Endgame without total collapse.

[@mrsoggyramen9596]

Batman is the best hero in the Darkhorse Universe. When he teamed up with Kirk and the rest of the Guardians of the Galaxy to take the magic amulet to the Deathly Hallows to destroy the evil Darth Mordor it brought a tear to my eye.

[@MatthewCobalt]

I've seen many of the newest superhero movies myself, and it isn't a fatigue for these types of films that makes me tired. Even as a general audience member, I can see when a movie isn't good and never support it again. It's only now that the number of bad movies are increasing that the tiredness began to set in. You would rather just stop watching stuff than be disappointed and have a poor experience.

[@gamiezion]

if you saw all of them guess what, you are a super fan.

[@jaydenyoung9809]

It’s also the editing of these movies to me. A lot of them nowadays have the color-grading of a McDonald’s back kitchen. It’s just so bland and generic.

[@DingDingTheYoutubeBuddy]

Yeah, this is why I stopped watching them after thor. It was just so abysmal that I just stopped caring for the whole thing. I think the only good marvel movie ive seen since endgame was the third spiderman movie, but thats literally it. I would consider myself a fanboy for the superhero genre, like I read comic books (the old ones my dad had from like 1980, but still) but even I am getting sick of the shitty movies that require you to have seen 100 other movies or tv shows to understand wtf is going on. Its just too much effort for something thats supposed to be entertainment, if I wanted to do homework, I would just go do my university hw, then at least i'd actually be productive

[@techzone1552]

@@jaydenyoung9809 Why is that so accurate lmao

[@ScaerieTale]

I was a self described MCU fan (Not a "super fan" by any means) , but my experience is pretty much exactly as you've laid it out. I got tired of trying to keep up with everything happening between ten different movies and TV shows. Which sucks because I actually enjoyed Wanda Vision, they just really should've picked a lane and stuck to it.

[@coleames514]

I think people are mostly just sick of bad writing, the studios refuse to let their characters develop at all, so every now and then you get an endgame or guardians of the galaxy 3 in which the characters are at risk of dying, growing and ultimately leaving because the actors playing them have just grown tired of the same gig for 12 years

[@Brandonhayhew]

These people have saw the same pattern in these films for the past decade. I think it’s time to end it

[@Bustermachine]

So super hero movies have now reached the same place Superhero comics are at. Which, IMO was kinda inevitable when they followed the same roadmap of ever more interconnected stories with ever escalating threats.

[@someguy9070]

I actually like how laid back this video felt, and I’m glad someone gets it. I think the time has come to either let it go or take a nice long hiatus and come back with something new/ interesting or to continue what was in an interesting manner.

[@clocksvids]

I feel like the examples were a bit strange because basically what you said was “the bad superhero movies did poorly and the good superhero movies did well” which… is like every other film ever.

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

It’s been at a point for multiple years for me where I go “that came out?”

[@cirospedale7511]

To correct a minor point, people who remember the ending to Endgame would know Falcon is the new Captain America, since he was named that at the end of the last film. The show was made to basically leave the characters in the same position as when the show began to use them in future movies without doing what Wandavision kinda did

[@concept5631]

Correct

[@csmlyly5736]

Well I don't remember the ending to Endgame. And I'm sure I've seen it more than a few times. Honestly I didn't even know Captain America died. He could have just kept making movies and it wouldn't have seemed weird to me.

[@plasticweapon]

who cares?

[@Corridor3000]

​@@csmlyly5736well he didn't necessarily die...just grow super old and retire giving his shield to falcon

[@StuartWycliffe]

The fact that currently one of the few decent superhero shows is The Boys (a show which explicitly satirises the genre) shows just how far these franchises have been pushed past their prime.

[@leonrobinson8180]

"The Boys" is honestly overrated. It's just an edgy deconstruction of the superhero genre.

[@JamesTheFoxeArt]

​@leonrobinson8180 if you think that, 'The Boys' comics are much worse

[@leonrobinson8180]

@RealCashTok I liked it in the beginning. The twist that these parodies of classic superheroes are secretly assh0les and products of corporations, and that a rag tag group is trying to take them down. But then I realised these are ugly, vulgar, petty people. There are no "good" guys here. Just the lesser of two evils. Then I realised "Why do I need to watch jerks with superpowers?" I deal with them every day. In traffic, on the job, etc. I want idealistic, cornball heroes because they inspire me to be BETTER.

[@obliviongigan6360]

​@@leonrobinson8180 Facts dude, it's even more annoying when people say "this is a realistic representation of how super heroes would act in real life"

[@kman9884]

Decent? Season one was good, two and three are dogshit

[@CharlieHepp]

Great analysis. One thing I think you forgot to mention is that at the time the MCU started the model of an interconnected universe was a new thing in film. You used to have sequels and sometimes prequels and that's it. Nothing like a shared universe outside of TV shows or animated shows. So by the time Avengers 1 came around people started to keep up with these films to see where it was going. After Endgame wrapped it up the general public and casual viewers started to not really care that much anymore because of fatigue and dubious quality. Another factor is that for a lot of casual viewers, Avengers Endgame was a satisfying conclusion, and they didn't need more. They weren't interested in superheroes as a concept unto itself as much as they were those characters, and three of the most popular reached the end of their stories in that film. Marvel continuing the overall MCU can feel a bit like a comedian trying to spin along a joke well after the solid punchline landed, with the audience's laughter growing less sincere with every moment. I do think it's not just the quantity of superhero content, the back catalog as it were, that's leading to fatigue. But the sheer tempo of it. It was pretty cool to go see a Marvel film when they only came out once a year and were basically self-contained stories. Now it's once a quarter along with two limited series a year. Never has capitalism found a thing that makes money and then not tried to make it make infinite money, after all. Your calling out Multiverse of Madness as a turning point is spot on, at least for me. This is when I basically completely stopped caring about Superhero movies. Up till that point, I had pretty much watched every Superhero movie in cinema mostly during the opening week. I don't have Disney+ so I hadn't watched but at least I was aware of the plot to some extent honestly, even if I had Disney+ I doubt I'll ever be able to catch up anytime soon and I am saying this as someone who used to watch CW's DC shows with great interest. Back in the 2000s, it was fun to go to the cinema to watch superhero movies. As you would get one every few years. Seeing movies like Spiderman 2, Batman Begins & The Dark Knight in the cinema was a great experience. Now, not only is there fatigue over superheroes due to their being too much content, but the writing for many Marvel TV shows & movies is now abysmal. Thank you for getting me caught up on these movies. As someone who hasn't seen a superhero movie in 20 years, you've really laid out a whole world I did not understand. I'm that casual moviegoer you're talking about, and all I know is that I can't see any movie without having seen a dozen other movies. eventually, no one will be caught up and this fad will collapse. I would be game to watch a good movie about a hero if I were standalone. I did watch Kickass and enjoyed it. Comic book characters are lame again. We've come full circle! One thing about this is that the general public, being that they aren't as invested in superheroes, they're not seeing every movie that comes out. They're just seeing ones that either personally appeal to them or whatever is available when they need an excuse to go out of the house. So I don't think that fatigue will really set in for them, they're just going to wait for that or something with actual hype. The group that is more likely to suffer fatigue are middling fans, those who got into superheroes, want to commit to keeping up with or getting into these interconnected stories but aren't necessarily die-hard fans, are going to see all these similarities, uneven polish, and general issues that are inherent to a connected universe that will become burnt out. The fact that Guardians 3 and Across the Spiderverse have been successful, I think disproves superhero fatigue. I think you’re right about Marvel having too many shows and alienating casuals. Kahn also hasn’t been set up as well as Thanos. The wow factor of having all these movies connected faded away after Endgame. Poor writing I think is hurting superhero movies more than fatigue. I feel like the examples were a bit strange because basically what you said was “The bad superhero movies did poorly and the good superhero movies did well” which… is like every other film ever. I started getting superhero fatigue when outside of the last Avengers film it was always the same circular story. Hero is introduced It's not fatigue, it's disgust. These movies aren't movies, they drop you in sequel bait-ridden half-stories that somehow still manage to follow the same formula every time, and it's just a whiplash and a snorefest at the same time. Truly impressive. Not to mention that I honestly can't be fucked to prepare a doctoral thesis every time I wanna watch a goddamn superhero flick geez. IMHO engaging with a movie should come from a place of unpacking what it's saying and how it relates to you (or others) if you're into intellectual viewing, or it is sheer dumb emotional spectacle if you're into that, both are valid. It cannot, however, completely depend on its own wiki for its hard-core fans to go "I know that thing!". That's an exam, not a cinema. I'm so sick of self-referential auto-fellating half-movies thinking they're doing something with this because it is fundamentally built on gatekeeping as a form of engagement. I can't believe the MCU didn't see its endgame with this strategy. It's starting to turn into what comics are like now: depending on which movie (comic) you grab, you may or may not have to watch(read) or research this other movie (comic) to know why this Spiderman is actually Doc Oc who possessed and took over Peter parker's body. "I'll write a better script next time, I promise" could be the tagline for every movie that has suffered from "superhero fatigue" It is not just superheroes that I am tired of, I am tired of franchises. Almost all of them are so cookie-cutter nowadays. There is hardly any experimentation happening in the big studios now. Even Nolan is high on his own farts nowadays, which is sad to see. Our only hope is now with small studios and independent creators. Some of them can be truly exceptional in their craft and deserve our support it really is Yong Kids' Avengers is next to those one boy and a girl is not out last guy I was talking about to save him really is Makoto is next in this episode is better he won in this year as done as well really prove ironman is wrong to be in the DCU of the CGI speed who better okay to save Captian American loss in the battle to Winter Solder won who is next battle is Makoto vs Winter Solder in the ending okay let me know help me out here thanks for the weekends okay thanks do it in today okay.

[@GeoEstic]

Speaking as a member of the general public on this one. I've never been extremely into superheroes, but I did enjoy some characters and followed their progression through different franchises in the past. Lately, I feel that way TOO MANY superheroes have made their appearance on screen and some of them seem completely useless, so watching each of the new ones become main characters with their own franchise over and over ... is tiring. For me it became a chore to try and keep up with all the superheroes and try to understand which ones are part of the same universe and how their stories connect. I haven't watched a superhero movie in at least 4 or 5 years and I don't plan on watching any soon.

[@jonahabenhaim1223]

At least give spiderverse a shot

[@quackcement]

@@jonahabenhaim1223 that's the problem why would a superhero, need to be remade so many times that it needs to create its own universe to explain all the repeated parallel origin stories. back to the future ended in the 1990 and people still go back to that.

[@sontho6995]

​@@quackcementThat's...not even in the ballpark of what spider verse is about. Did you even watch the films?

[@quackcement]

@@sontho6995 nope, i stayed around to watch the Tobey Maguire version, then they repeated it with Andrew Garfield, Tom Holland then Shameik Moore its too much.... would feel like burdon having to go through it all, i just have to ask why?

[@agreenmountain805]

Same. They all feel like Spy Kids 3D to me now lol

[@jaysonevans9107]

The only two superheroes that I believe are exempt from the current superhero fatigue are Batman and Spider-Man. While Batman wasn't enough to carry the Flash to success, "The Batman" did really well and a lot of people enjoyed it. Holland's Spider-Man seems to be doing well and obviously Spider-verse is going crazy, so I agree with many people when they say they aren't tired of superheroes, they're tired of interconnected worlds and spin offs and having to keep tabs on every little thing in order to know what's going on.

[@nerychristian]

That's true. I think the reason they are the most popular comic book heroes is because they represent opposite ends of the spectrum. Light vs Darkness. Day vs Night. Yet, even though they are different types of heroes, they both have unwavering character and a desire to help people. And they are not crazy overpowered. They also have some of the best villains.

[@RealogOnlyBrodie]

I genuinely think Spider-Man and Batman check all the superhero boxes that people want, at least in live action… all these other movies nobody actually asked for and the box office shows that, even though they’re advertised a lot nobody watches them like Batman or Spider-Man. It’s as simple as some characters work better in animation, video games, anime… etc. like why is marvel surprised that the Eternals flopped… nobody cares about characters that nobody knows about… guardians of the galaxy and antman came at the right time. You can’t oversaturate phase 4 with all these characters that nobody actually cares about…. We already had a new avengers roster after endgame and instead of developing those characters more right away they introduced a dozen more.

[@furiousstyles08]

To paraphrase the main points here, comic-con types might not mind watching all the Disney + content to keep up. I can see the average viewer looking at the multi-verse stuff and saying "nah, I don't have time for that".

[@furiousstyles08]

@@RealogOnlyBrodie like why is marvel surprised that the Eternals flopped… I think the success of Ant-Man and GOTG fueled their hubris.

[@nerychristian]

@@furiousstyles08 It doesn't help that Disney have already alienated half the country with their woke agenda, and the way they keep replacing the OG cast with females who are not only mediocre actors, but also talk trash about the men.

[@chrisc6677]

Another point you haven't touched on is how Disney is politicizing all of their movies now while Sony is being smart and leaving political correctness and other ideological issues that are divisive out of their Spiderman movies. Disney is killing itself off which is why people have given up on everything they touch. Also, people are just sick of toxic Hollywood who do atrocious things, be toxic to any people who question them, and them demand that we throw our money at them by seeing their movie and justify their disgusting behaviors/ideologies. I want Disney and Hollywood to reverse their toxic agendas or die off so I don't plan to fund any of their movies for the foreseeable future.

[@thedudeabides3138]

I completely agree, people do have Super Hero fatigue. I think the issue comes from greedy execs who have a product they want to sell rather than a good story to tell.

[@Goozero1]

'Superhero fatigue' means "Oh shit, we actually have to try and not half-ass it anymore as a studio."

[@TheGoldenFighter]

It's basically the same principle as the comics, bad writing, care, and accuracy. I could watch every Marvel and DC movie, but the less they've tried, the less I've cared. Started to consider not watching stuff since Captain Marvel. So having all these shows and books that can be confusing, dont matter, and are too many just don't work like all these different versions of things. Spider-Verse is great, but the comic characters and story suck and haven't seen the 2nd one, but more present feeling bad seeing all of them in the 2nd ones trailer. Great writing saved the 1st one, 2nd one not sure. I've been saying it for a while, I think people not picking favourites and following everybody, hurt it even more. As long as they stay general fans, you could see a decline. Don't have to pick a favourite, but if they don't start caring more, then I think you're correct. It's kind of like this vicious cycle, you become more a comic fan, both are pretty much terrible. You had these decent periods, with some great stuff in between, but since a few years ago bad. There's been fatigue in the comics, so why not other media if they continue to be really terrible. They're also not putting their best foot forward, DCs great with the shows, Marvel no. Didn't put the best heroes out first in their shows and movies since Agents of Shield for the shows and Captain Marvel for the movies, and DC in a way since the DCEU with Suicide Squad. Didn't have to have every hero have solo films, strange picks. Just start with the best heroes to lesser bests or follow how the books introduced them, DC's actually better in that sense, for the DCEU with Superman and Batman. Also Flash mans still cool in my eyes ha, followed pretty much everything about him Barry that is. Movie was decent, coulda been better. Know you're just saying, but the Spidey films and Iron Man's appearances have been consistently great. The top tier guys if handled well, should be fine.

[@theflash9767]

This video raises some valid points about the current state of superhero movies, particularly within the MCU and DCU. It's clear that there's a sense of fatigue setting in among audiences, and this is something that both franchises need to address. For the MCU, one of the main issues seems to be the interconnectedness of their films and TV shows. While this strategy has been successful in the past, it's starting to alienate casual viewers who don't have the time or interest to keep up with every piece of content. A potential solution could be to create more standalone films that don't require extensive knowledge of the MCU's complex timeline and character relationships. This would allow casual viewers to enjoy the films without feeling like they're missing out on important context. As for the DCU, the main problem seems to be a lack of consistent quality and direction. James Gunn's involvement could be a positive step forward, but it's crucial that he's given the creative freedom to execute his vision. The DCU needs to establish a clear identity that distinguishes it from the MCU, rather than trying to replicate its success. Perhaps focusing on darker, more mature themes (as seen in standalone films like Joker) could be a viable strategy. In terms of intellectual properties, both franchises need to be careful not to over-saturate the market. It's important to give audiences a break between major releases to prevent fatigue. This also allows for anticipation to build for upcoming films. The success of standalone films like Logan, the Dark Knight trilogy, and the Spiderman trilogy shows that there's a market for superhero films that break the mold. These films succeeded because they prioritized storytelling and character development over spectacle and franchise-building. Both the MCU and DCU could benefit from taking a similar approach. In terms of revitalizing the superhero genre, it's crucial to remember that innovation and creativity are key. Audiences are drawn to fresh, unique stories, so it's important to continue pushing the boundaries of what a superhero film can be. This could involve exploring different genres within the superhero framework, focusing on lesser-known characters, or experimenting with unconventional narrative structures. Ultimately, while the current state of superhero films is concerning, it's far from disastrous. With the right approach, both the MCU and DCU have the potential to bounce back and continue captivating audiences for years to come.

[@NicolasDuqueMrDuque]

AI hands wrote this, it's literally GPT writing and spacing lol

[@sirmoony5633]

This is what happens if something as nerdy, geeky, or underground as superheroes become so streamlined and casualized to the point where they're no longer a special thing to like anymore.

[@nunyabiznes7446]

did you even watch the video? these movies aren't failing because they're not obscure enough lol wake up

[@spectraljerk330]

Lmao people didn't stop liking superheroes becouse they became popular and arent niche thing anymore.people got tired of superheroes becouse theres no more attempts at expermentation

[@bitwolfy]

I don't think the point was they failed due to being overexposed, it's that subculture was turned mainstream, and with it overexposed to hell and back, studios don't want to experiment anymore at the risk of alienating the general audience. A general audience that is now bored as hell with these movies, and the original fans have long since moved on since it's no longer what they liked in the first place. It's like shoving every spice in the spice rack into the food you're serving so that no ones left out, you're just left with this disaster that appeals to almost no one.

[@Bustermachine]

@@nunyabiznes7446 No, but they are falling apart because of the need for ever more 'content' that has now outstripped all narrative reason or sense.

[@Heropsychodream]

Thank you for getting me caught up on these movies. As someone who hasn't seen a superhero movie in 20 years, you've really laid out a whole world I did not understand. I'm that casual movie goer you're talking about, and all I know is that I can't see any movie without having seen a dozen other movies. eventually, no one will be caught up and this fad will collapse. I would be game to watch a good movie about a hero if i was standalone. I did watch kickass and enjoyed it.

[@tea4nihilists]

as someone who never cared for superheroes, i really can't wait until the film industry has finally tired the general public out. the way this genre took over mainstream has done a lot of stuff i don't appreciate to film in general.

[@Scarlettspider-h4v]

Be honest I think superheroes can tell very interesting stories , just like any genre especially in comics it just depends on who's telling That story But Like any genre; horror, action, war, sci-fi Are going to be bad movies in the for that genre Including superheroes There are still great superheroes movies out there like "ACROSS THE SPIDER VERSE" but hollywood now they sees it As a way to just make a quick popcorn flick 💲💲💲 I'm NOT saying you SHOULD like superhero movies i'm just saying there are going to be bad movies in any medium And it as a guy who's been into comics for a bit There can be many great stories But I hope you find the movies you like to watch 😊

[@scrollop]

The 90s were a good time for movies - lot's of mid tier movies that had the room to be original; nowadays movies need to make money so become unoriginal, sequels and huge

[@Scarlettspider-h4v]

@@scrollop not that sequels are always bad but I certainly see what you're trying to say, sad thing about Hollywood this that there are always first and foremost a business, and if an idea is working that business will do everything in its power to market it Even though I'm a gen z I love 90s and 80s movies, even classics like 'Street Cart Named Desire' Even The 1980s the fly with Jeff goldblum All these great ideas being put on film Experimenting but also groundbreaking in technology and storytelling Just like there's so many different variants of sci-fi and horror This can be definitely be the same for superheroes, like movies, comics have never been afraid to experiment with they're format, making great stories FROM PENCIL AND PAPER doing things that that could blow the minds if brought to film, A WHOLE NEW TYPE OF FILM MAKING, What I never got is how you could LITERALLY HAVE IDEAS WRITTEN FOR YOU and NOT use them!!?!?! I definitely hope they get more diverse in movies 🎥 Not just with superheroes but with the whole the whole industry in general Cuz if they don't, movie theaters won't have anybody to buy their overpriced popcorn 🍿😔

[@christianjimmyalvarez711]

The topic of superhero fatigue is basically universal at this time. It feels like a waiting game.

[@StarWarriorCentral]

"I thought the whole thing was stupid." -The lady behind me in the theater after Age of Ultron ended

[@GTXDash]

You don't need to write a better script. This video is exactly what certain individuals needed to hear.

[@Robinjhoe1]

I never understood the alure of superheroes to begin with, but i can kind of understand where the fatigue comes from since i always see something similiar in videogame themes. In the fps genre you always have either a time where a ton of WW1/WW2 themed games come out and people cry about that being done a billion times, and then the near-future/scifi themed games come out and people suddenly want WW2 back. Its a mix of oversaturation of the market and bad products i.e. in terms of superhero movies bad writing and spiderman part 890987 electric boogaloo. I already had superhero fatigue at age of ultron

[@themadoneplays7842]

The allure of superheroes is all about escapism, though that's not the only thing. I like the genre because sometimes the themes are actually good storytelling, beyond some dude putting on a pair of spandex and wearing a cape.

[@tompatterson1548]

"In the fps genre you always have either a time where a ton of WW1/WW2 themed games come out and people cry about that being done a billion times, and then the near-future/scifi themed games come out and people suddenly want WW2 back" Sounds like the problem is they only have 2 ideas and can't faathom doing a 30 Years War video game.

[@themadoneplays7842]

​@@tompatterson1548 Well there is a good reason for this, as well, guns made before a certain point were a pain in the ass to load and fire. The earliest time period I personally can see an FPS be set in would be in the American Civil War period, maybe even Crimean war. But anything before that will b e less of a first-person shooter and more of a loading a ball into a musket simulator. It would be incredibly slow paced and incompatible with what people like in a first-person shooter.

[@tompatterson1548]

@@themadoneplays7842 There would be a bit more of a cost to taking a shot, which could absolutely be interesting, it would also slow down thhe pace thhough.

[@Marisa_arts]

This is why it is hard to get into comics (Marvel and DC types) now, you literally need to go buy like 30 books to understand the One run (between 3 to 12 chapter/issues now cuz the big shiny 1 sells more) Yes, this is an exaggeration, mostly, but the fact you need to get/buy more books that have nothing to do with the title character in order to understand the *1* story is a big hassle to do. Why can't I just get this one run or start from the beginning of this story? The rough answer I get is this... "Because you need to go in and read it from this run which is doing this but not all that run goes into the main buy also start with this one as this is when they are introduced for this era but the story starts in this run here which is for a reboot of the other run which doesn't matter much but the events from that run play into the current run which you need to read to understand and also read these other characters runs as the other half of the story is in those books but they are not in order and you need to read them in this order. This is also not the real reason and you need to get these other books from this other story to find the real reason and also finish it in this other book that has a tie-in with the title character that is effected by the event. Turns out the character was there for 2 pages and did nothing and what they went through doesn't mater and it is for this *other* character that it was really effecting!" Rinse and repeat.

[@thewerdna]

I think its less fatigue with the concept, but more fatigue with the sheer number of movies and shows out there. I am still seeing superhero movies and have enjoyed the ones I saw... but I've also skipped a lot of superhero movies too. Being expected to watch 3-4 movies and several shows a year just to keep up is too much. If the MCU wemt back to just 1-2 movies, occasionally 3, a year with like one show a year, this wouldn't be a problem. Not only is the market oversaturated, the MCU itself is oversaturated. That's what's exhausting.

[@gabagool3502]

I was hit with Gilgamesh fatigue for a while when it was popular, but now I’m pretty nostalgic for it and I’m glad the 2100bc aesthetic is coming back

[@TheLoneTerran]

Yeah. I got tired enough of superheroes after Infinity Wars. I thought Captain Marvel was going to be needed to be seen to understand End Game and I lost my job/home around that time so didn't have a whole lotta' money kicking around. Then I saw just how many friggin' phases they had planned and I noped out.

[@krombopulos_michael]

Tbh, I think a large part of it is the volume of these properties coming out. I followed the MCU pretty closely up until Endgame and I was already having a hard time getting to see 3 of these new films every year, but I felt like OK, it's a big push leading up the finale so I'll do it. I assumed after Endgame that things would really slow down then, at least for a while so they could rebuild with a new cast of characters. But instead they just sped up. As a result, I haven't seen a single movie since Endgame with the exception of Spiderman 3 and when another one comes out, I feel like I'll just have to wait until I catch up with the others before I watch it so I don't get spoilers from seeing them out of order, which means the homework just builds up so much that it'll be a long time before I see any more of these. I also think part of the problem is that they feel formulaic. You really sort of know what you're getting with an MCU movie because its like the ones you've seen before (similar to Westerns which were also notoriously formulaic for the most part). I did see Across the Spiderverse and really enjoyed it, because it avoided both of these issues. It's not tied to a big series franchise, and it's got a really interesting and unique visual and storytelling style so it's more interesting.

[@jpm5772]

It less superhero fatigue and more the fact that the people making the movies stopped caring about making good movies

[@Grimrapings]

Disney & DC (repeated for each reboot iteration) just copy & paste the previous movie, change the bad guy, change the hero & call it a film. The same lame jokes, the same action scenes, the same slow motion, the same formulaic plot.

[@MacroAggressor]

Its kindof ironic that you talked about the comic book superfans not causing high ticket sales and then said its not a good comparison between Western's and superhero movies becuz the old cowboys were watching out of nostalgia. Actual old cowboys with direct experience, and even those with secondhand direct experience (children of cowboys, etc), would have been in the minority of the contemporary audience just like the superhero genre and it's analogous superfans. The nostalgia that Westerns inspired in it's mostly non-cowboy audience is the same as the nostalgia that the superhero genre inspires in it's mostly non-superfan audience. All in all, I think its actually a great comparison. NB. that was painful to write, KnowledgeHusk... your welcome (11:31)

[@ShovelChef]

I don't know how I feel about your point OR the grammatical Easter eggs you threw in there. 🤔 I believe that I've been tricked into boosting engagement, and I don't even have a point to share. 😅

[@Scarker]

"Superhero fatigue" is getting thrown around because - as geeky kids - we used to be starved for content that catered to us. That shitty green lantern movie was all we were getting that year, and sure it didn't do well - but he said the thing! That was enough to carry us through to the next drip-feed of nerdy content we were getting. And now we're drowning in it. We want to watch it all - because it's made just for us! - but there's so much, and it's going in so many directions. One director chooses to get weird with a series, and you find yourself sighing every time a new episode comes out and wondering "am I done with superheroes?" And you look and see all these things that you don't care about and know that they're entangled with the things you do care about - so you're missing important plot if you skip it - but you *really* just *don't* care. That was Wandavision for me. I really cared about Wanda and Vision's story, I just didn't care for the fake sitcom I had to slough through to get it. Same thing happened to me with Kingdom Hearts. I tried to get through Chain of Memories 4 or 5 times, and always gave up at the third world. I wanted the story - it was apparently pretty important to understanding the plot of 2 and onward - I just didn't like how the game played, with the deck building and card system it was just clunky and not for me. And then there were 8 other games between 2 and 3. And they were on 4 different platforms. And there was a huge phone game (that apparently ended its story and no longer exists, so I guess you can miss stuff now?) And none of this was for me - the person who liked playing Kindom Hearts on my Playstation. Because it wasn't trying to attract me - I was hooked, they basically counted on me already buying them, like 'em or not - it was for newcomers to the series. But they weren't written as though they were for new people - they were part of the story. They were sequels, with parts you wouldn't get in the "main line." And some of them played like cheap knock offs that weren't worth the price. I got sequel-fatigued right out of the series. Because they kept making games for other types of gamers that I couldn't get interested in. Disney is doing that exact same thing again. But with DC also sucking shit, it's not being viewed as sequel fatigue. Those nerdy people desperate for content are finding their wants met and finally looking at the mountain of slop they're getting and wondering "do I actually like super heroes any more?" It's just sequel fatigue. And FOMO fatigue. And the fact that we have enough content that's good that we don't have to shine the turds and be satisfied anymore. Without dying of thirst, we can actually taste how terrible the water is, and we want to stop wading in it. Tortured metaphors aside: culture spanning "fatigue" really isn't a thing. Once you actually count everyone on the planet, good things will rise to the top because they're good - no fandom in the world is big enough to raise slop to the top of the charts if there's anything better anywhere. On the other hand, individuals can, will, and do burn out of things. Sequel and Saturation fatigue on an individual level is a huge problem, and can kill a person's interest in things they used to love in ways that nothing will really replace easily. Sure, you can blame that on people that devote themselves to a corporate product, but you can't ignore the corporations being careless and peddling shit on a bun as though it's the burger that we got last time and wanted again. At the end of the day, greedy over-exploitation of a market will chase out the people that built it. That's all that the "fatigue" is. It's not on a cultural level - the market is bigger and thriving better than ever! - but perhaps by burning out the passionate people that built it, the tent poles might be less stable than they used to be, and a bit of bad management could see huge chunks of it collapse again.

[@NoahRJitil]

This is one of the best insights I've ever seen related to the topic. The Kingdom Hearts comparison is right on the money, too - with so many movies and shows and general story to keep up with, the genre has become opaque. New viewers don't have easy entry points, and with a drop in quality you lose the old fans as well, so you're effectively cutting off both revenue streams with each passing movie.

[@rorylumley4727]

I kind of think it might be biger than just superhero fatigue. As a lot of movies that have nothing to do with superheroes underpreformed. Many of the big hits where low to mid budget movies that made less than many of the box office bombs. With the crowded june I could see fewer movies that are more spread out to prevent that in the future.

[@metoidionasty]

It’s almost like we should’ve never gotten rid of mid budget movies because seeing billion dollar movies every other month causes them to no longer be special. I’m so happy that mid budget movies are back, evil dead was great

[@shanekeenaNYC]

July is even more crowded, so I doubt that movies will be more spread out. I do see a burgeoning trend of smaller, easier to follow franchises and one-off brass, steel and concrete action flicks that are easy to make and easier to follow. Take abandoned warehouses and soon-to-be-demolished high rises that are currently here, and existing transportation infrastructure and use them to basically flesh out a quick storyline. Fast action is where it's going.

[@rorylumley4727]

@@metoidionasty I was thinking less movies that are more spread out for 2024 and beyond. Though that might increase the problem of movies theaters remaing profitable between big releases.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

None of Doctor Strange 2 made sense even if you DID watch the show. Doctor Strange and the Multilevel Marketing of Madness wasn't originally supposed to be about Evil Wanda, it was supposed to be about Good Wanda being seduced by evil and becoming Evil Wanda for the next Avengers movie. But then the writer said, and I quote, "I didn't want somebody else to play with the cool toys," so he rewrote the entire script so that Wanda was suddenly the bad guy out of nowhere so that he could play with the cool toys. Whoever decided that it was okay to let this guy write a movie made a serious misjudgement. I legitimately don't think people are sick of Super Hero movies, I think what they're sick of are terribly written movies that don't tell a meaningful story and just exist to be the next product off the assembly line.

[@jacobkirk1846]

I don’t think people will ever be sick of superheroes, because the idea of a superhero is such a broad concept with endless possibilities. I think people are sick of the getting same Marvel type of action/comedy superhero movies over and over again. Even DC since Justice League basically turned themselves into Marvel-lite. Everybody’s pumping out the same type of movies with decreasing effort.

[@Vaquix000]

In this very comment section there are people that are sick of superheroes, me included. You'd think superhero means any heroic person with superpowers right? Nah. It's always someone in a disguise that is defending their city or world from villains, and it's always just normal earth, never an interesting new fantastical world with imagination. I don't need to see that exact concept for the 595th time.

[@jacobkirk1846]

@@Vaquix000 so you didn’t enjoy The Batman, Spiderverse, Guardians 3, Joker?

[@joey6800]

Exactly everyone’s just Tony stark/Ryan Reynolds. A witty genius who does things differently (please laugh)

[@SpaceRider15]

I don’t think the fatigue has set in yet, it’s just that the content that superheroes are featured in has just been really bad in the last two years (with some great exceptions of course)

[@IlluminatiBG]

It is not a problem with the genre. If you ever noticed recently, both movies, TV series and even anime produce more sequels and spin-offs than actual new original movies. As a member of the general public that have never seen (intentionally) a Marvel or DC movie, I will always give a try to something new and interesting. That's how you become a fan. Watching a sequel or a spin-off with a lot of internal references provides no value if you are not a fan already. The second problem is the genre itself. A superhero is a superhero because of an superhuman ability. Using that to handle regular human criminals won't be that interesting, you need a supervillain to make it interesting. First few times we saw this formula, it was interesting. You can be successful with the same formula if you make the qualities of the hero/villain more interesting. For example, Dr. Octopus in Spiderman have been interesting villain the first time, but you needed to make Joker a way more interesting and different kind of villain to make the same formula work for the second time in Batman (otherwise, people that have seen Spiderman won't be that astonished in Batman). The problem is, if you see something new and expected the first time, it will always be more entertaining than something you have seen before. A good story must not exactly match a genre, it must redefine or even create a new genre on its own. A good new and original story will be difficult to define on existing genre.

[@immorttalis]

Superhero writing is what I'm tired of. The style of dialogue, the tropes, the cinematography, they're all something I'd like a break from.

[@themadoneplays7842]

Well the superhero tropes themselves are not the issue methinks, it's more execution. I personally embrace my tropes when writing for my superhero stories and use them to my advantage, as opposed to using a trope for the sake of it. I think that's the real issue TBH, no one seems to use the tropes of the genre wisely anymore. They are either too busy subverting them, or using them without care. I try to stick to the middle, I mean I am not perfect but no writer honestly is.

[@PirateCommando]

I think you pointed it out yourself. It’s all the homework you gotta do just to have a baseline understanding of what’s going on in the movie. If writers can make half a movie and sell you on watching the sequel, they’ve won. The movies are only becoming fatiguing because of how committal they are to fans and alienating they are to casual viewers.

[@racool911]

I never understood this point at all cause Marvel did this far more in the past than they are doing now. Every project feels completely separated nowadays. GOTG Vol 3 was completely independent, Quantumania set up future things but required very little past knowledge, Wakanda Forever was independent, Love and Thunder was independent, MOM and NWH did actually require previous viewing, Eternals is on its own, Shang Chi is on its own, Black Widow is on its own.

[@sword_of_damocle5]

​​​@@racool911Then perhaps people really are fed up with superhero movies. Either that or the writing quality for these films have seriously deteriorated since 2018.

[@FionanUaMurchadha]

Will always love old Superhero movies though such as Superman, Superman II, Batman (1989), Batman Returns (1992) Dark knight trilogy etc

[@CleaveTheDragon]

One thing about this is that the general public, being that they aren't as invested in superheroes, they're not seeing every movie that comes out. They're just seeing ones that either personally appeal to them or whatever is available when they need an excuse to go out of the house. So I don't think that fatigue will really set in for them, they're just going to wait for that or something with actual hype. The group that is more likely to suffer fatigue are middling fans, those that got into superheroes, want to commit to keeping up with or getting into these interconnected stories, but aren't necessary die-hard fans, are going to see all these similarities, uneven polish, and general issues that are inherit to a connected universe that will become burnt out.

[@BknMoonStudios]

I don't think it's "superhero fatigue", so much as "Hollywood superhero fatigue" instead. We need high quality standalone comic book adaptations and more original scripts with good acting and direction. I think "street level heroics" that don't rely on expensive CGI special effects will rise through this decade. With both Marvel/Disney and DC/Warner struggling, it is time for other production houses to take a step forward.

[@thewerdna]

Yep. Its why Joker, The Batman, and Spider-verse were all successful. They are each their own things not connected to a bigger expanded universe. People aren't sick of superhero movies. They are sick of having to watch 3-4 superhero movies and multiple shows a year just to keep up. Especially when the increase of volume of content has led to a drop in overall quality

[@josephhefley9701]

It's the 90s all over again. It's like these companies didn't learn from the past. In the 90s collectibles (sports cards, Comics, CCGs) over printed everything. Essentially making everything from that era worthless because it was rushed out and over produced/printed. It almost killed multiple industries. This is the same but in cinematic form.

[@silverstar8868]

I think the fatigue goes both ways cause damn it feels like they aren't trying with new movies. But I think its mostly that the people really dont wanna be doing lore homework.

[@FoolsGil]

The smartest thing Disney and HBO Max should do, is allow their current shows to be syndicated on cable, and maybe other streaming companies. Allow everyone the chance to see these shows, and then start releasing movies.

[@dahterrasse]

But the whole point of these shows is to fill Disney+ with content so that audiences "need" to pay for it. That's why the entire thing is so idiotic. If they put it on TV, they don't have a reason to make it. Idk if they were actually stupid enough to forget during planning that audiences can just stop caring, but it sure looks like it.

[@baraodascolinas979]

@@Dave102693Disney can not change, for Disney + would be void of hype-able content otherwise. Why would anyone pay for it if the top shows from marvel or Star Wars are somewhere else already, where people can see it. I feel this was a failed strategy from the start. Disney can not BOTH have exclusive content on Disney + from the top iPs (so that people sign up) And have blockbuster films that presupposes that mass audiences watched x and y TV show-special etc (so people would pay to go to cinema). People will not pay them both at the same time.

[@RightBoyKA-POW]

To be honest, we all also hate those "main character is a teenager and he balances his superhero life with his school life" TV series, because they're just... they've been done so many times! Like who wouldn't be tired of the same concept for so many TV series?! They're all the same!!!

[@HughMongusJazzhole]

Hopefully with videos like these, young and new filmmakers will be influenced to change up the superhero formula. Hell, I’d love to see original superhero universes that aren't based on existing comic characters as long as they’ve got coherent stories and fun characters. In the meantime, we at least have the Monsterverse and several other IPs that are doing fairly well in terms of worldbuilding and entertainment.

[@ZelphTheWebmancer]

It's a cycle of any and all art forms. New stuff is made and it's great, it grows and becomes saturated, people get tired of it and change things up, then new stuff is made and it's great... I do dig new superhero universes, specially if it has one on going continuity where things change, people grow old, and Status Quo is more dead than whatever joke is more relevant to make at the moment.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

Nah it'll be like the western show up occasionally and never be as big as their golden days tho it not a bad thing we got cowboy bebop, rdr2, trigun, and the dark valley since then

[@HughMongusJazzhole]

@@ZelphTheWebmancer for sure. I love Spiderman and Batman, but I think these two big companies need some more competition, at least Marvel does if DC doesn't succeed with their new cinematic universe

[@Antwannnn]

@@USSAnimeNCC-if I had a dollar for every year someone says comic book movies are fading like the westerns, I'd have 15 dollars. Give or take. Note that I'm only 19 🥴

[@thecampingyeen2524]

We need something like kickass again

[@Dunmerdog]

There's an animation truism which is that a successful character design style can be identified by its silhouette alone, and without that a character is effectively doomed. Now I don't think that Marvel is going to "fail" any time soon. They manage to make way too much money and are far too big a business to just go under but they will have to reckon with some movies that will fail HORRIBLY. Think about all these new characters that they're introducing and imagine them as just a black silhouette on a page. Do you know who you're looking at? I bet you can recognise Iron Man by his outline. Same with Thor or Black Widow or whatever. But with every new show they dilute their character designs down to one more "quirky" costume that blends together with all the others. This superhero fatigue goes further than just the story or the marketing or the CGI, I think there's a loss of basic effort going into all this slop they churn out.

[@racool911]

The silhouette thing is interesting but I highly disagree that the newer characters aren't recognizable in black and white.

[@dipanjanghosal1662]

That's actually a great point. I can't recognise most of the newer characters in silhouettes

[@Dunmerdog]

@@racool911 it’s more than just the silhouette, I meant that as a microcosm for the design going into new Marvel shows and films. There’s so much bloat that its just a chore to witness

[@beerdragon4583]

Fanboys can deny it all they want, but deep down they know it’s true. Yes, capeshit fatigue is real, but no I don’t think they will go away. They just won’t be en vogue anymore. And I’m throwing geek and nerd culture in too. The well has been poisoned and now so many once popular stories and franchises have been mutilated to fit the “modern audience.”

[@VoiceOfTheEmperor]

In the famous words of John "Soap" MacTavish: "Tell me something I don't know!"

[@ChaplainJoshua]

The only heroes I need are Bionicles

[@petrfedor1851]

My heroes were airforce uniform, P90 and C4 to kill false gods!

[@O1993-f8u]

The fact that Guardians 3 and Across the Spiderverse have been successful, I think disproves super hero fatigue. I think you’re right about Marvel having too many show and alienating casuals. Kahn also hasn’t been set up as well as Thanos. The wow factor of having all these movies connected faded away after Endgame. Poor writing I think is hurting superhero movies more than fatigue.

[@SerebiiWarrior]

I feel like video game movies are likely to be the successor to superhero movies. With Detective Pikachu, Sonic and Mario all having done well and video games being fully mainstream now it feels like video game movies are no longer just a gimmick. The genres also feel similar enough to where the main audience that would go see a superhero movie is likely to be into video game movies as well.

[@MattMcIrvin]

It might not be any one thing like superheroes were--we may be going back to the pre-superhero norm where a lot of stuff can hit. There's a wave of murder mysteries and really smart horror movies, too.

[@evrypixelcounts]

I"m not tired of superheroes, I'm tired of mainstream superhero media.

[@lucasLSD]

DocStrange 2 offends everyone, people that didn't watch Wandavision think it's strange she's a bad guy now, and people that did watch it think it's bizarre how the ending was completely ignored.

[@pridefulmaster1390]

We’re at the point where Disney is using AI generated art for Secret Invasion’s intro. If that’s not a sign the MCU is on its way out, I don’t know what is

[@wlot28]

Worse part is that they're trying to justify it as a unique creative decision and not just a cost cutting tactic

[@wlot28]

@@Dave102693 It's a convinient excuse for Disney, i'd be shocked if they admitted they did it just to save money