George Monbiot on Dutch farmer protests & misinformation spread by Russell Brand | Sentient Media

[@FLSTFB103]

I challenge George to a one-on-one talk with Russel.

[@snazzycracker2]

It would be interesting, but as intelligent with words and their meaning that russell is, he hasn't got the knowledge behind him. He has got a good production team behind him though that feeds him the snippets to promote.

[@FLSTFB103]

@@snazzycracker2 Sounds like Geoge would get his point across hands down, so I see no reason to not proceed and contact Russel.

[@GabrielPettier]

@@FLSTFB103 in a one on one talk like this, nuance and facts tend to lose against caricatures and narratives.

[@chasingthesun-bi6cx]

I'd prefer to see him debate it with Vandana Shiva.

[@kissfan7]

I love debates, but they aren't always a good method of getting to the truth. It only takes a minute to state an alleged fact, but it often takes two or three minutes to either fully disprove that alleged fact or provide needed context that changes how we should see that fact. What's to prevent Brand from throwing out ten lies and mistaken beliefs and only give Monbiot time to debunk or contextualize three of them. Also, minor point, I don't think you can challenge one person you don't know to debate another person you don't know.

[@ArchOrigin]

One aspect george is missing: the governing coalition is only haphazardly taking action, as they are forced by the EU. But they are also in a clientelistic relationship with big agricultural firms and the banks that give out credit to farmers for intensification.

[@christabrouwer]

That doesn't make it better, does it?

[@geoffcarlin4161]

Firstly, props to anyone for having the gumption to use their time and energy to try to set up a channel like this. That said, I watched this and I hope the interviewer is not going to be taken in by the interviewee, though I suspect she already has been; absolutely no pushback given on anything the Monbiot said. Who are these white supremacists about whom he spoke several times? He peppered the interview with -ists and -isms about seemingly anyone who doesn't share his world view and that may have arrived at a different set of conclusions based on the information available to them, and spent the entire interview 'other'ing and 'they'ing people with whom he doesn't agree. He might mistake his own hostility for wisdom but I don't and I hope that nobody else does. Nevertheless, it's useful to hear different viewpoints. He contends that the World Economic Forum in and of itself wields no real power despite it's leader clearly making the point that the WEF has "penetrated" the cabinets of governments all over the world. Powerless though, right? Does he really believe that the individual members of the club, Blair and Bourla and the like, are purely benign people who just step off of their private jets in Davos to speak about what happened on Coronation Street the other night? Get real. Finally, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but is Russell Brand not vegan? Perhaps this channel should try and arrange an interview with him and get his views on the farming industry.

[@snazzycracker2]

Russell rarely promotes veganism or the cause to end animal suffering and to stop eating animal products etc. He is always happy to sit in the middle and not offend any of his fans.

[@TheCompleteGuitarist]

@@snazzycracker2 I do wonder where George expects to procure food. The guy is an idiot. And if you believe that plant agriculture causes less harm to animals and environment ...... or is even what made humans ....

[@susanleatherbarrow2495]

Read Monbiot's piece on Brand in today's Guardian. It's an eye opener. Georgie boy has gone over to the dark side!!!

[@arsemyth8920]

The WEF is the marketing department of the BIS. And for that, George would call me a White Supremacist. This guy is either completely insane or shilling like his life depended on it.

[@spiral-m]

russell Brand is vegan but he never talks about the plight of animals on his main channel because he seems to have decided to become and echo-chamber of the right-wing. Cowardly. I agree about WEF

[@taragibson6321]

I cannot even watch the end of this!

[@deus_abscondis]

Is George interested in technology and practices to prevent the spill over of nitrates and phosphates into water ways or is it animal farming that he is against?

[@tiermacgirl]

Or is there another option?

[@arsemyth8920]

He's one of these spiteful intellectuals who privately want the great unwashed to live more humbly. But he's too stupid to realise that the left eat themselves and he will perish along with the rest of us

[@martinkb10]

This Monbiot is a far left loon and very one eyed! How can you suggest Brand is far Right! The farmers have been completely screwed over in the Netherlands! Monbiot completely misrepresents the whole situation as pollution which it isn't! I love the way he say Brand follows the far right narrative but forgets to mentions immigrants or race in his argument! Brand makes some great points on the unethical practices of big pharma in particular that are anything but left wing and indisputable! The fact that Monbiot wants to reintroduce wolves to the UK says a lot!

[@B0K1T0]

In the first part it feels to me you're painting the picture as if most farmers and their sympatisants are all-in on conspiracies, while in fact there is a significant group who just want to continue their family business and who are in more or lesser degrees doing their best to reduce emissions etc. The sad thing is also that our governmental institutions have become more and more into a Kafkaesk bureaucracy where it's sometimes near impossible to get your stuff sorted out with the government (in a reasonable time). So on paper the farmers might get well compensated etc., but this process is so messed up that some farmers just gave up waiting after several years. This is an important reason for the huge distrust in the government by our society and has contributed to many other very sad events (such as the Dutch childcare benefits scandal).

[@angelafloodgate4437]

Its hard to express how ridiculous this conversation sounds to a Dutch farmer like me. So my family and me and all of our neighbors have become far right fascists and what is more… We are the conspiracy theorists!? Am I to believe your view on the matter in stead of my own eyes and ears. Where is my handsome and equitable compensation. I’m not seeing any of it. Anyway faith in the gouvernement in the Netherlands has all but completely collapsed and no wonder. Hard work is being punished and that is an undeniable fact. But I guess you guys must go in believing in hidden or open fascism in Holland. You say your opponents are blind but you won’t acknowledge the open neomarxism that is destroying all will to work in our county and many other European countries as well.

[@ruppollock4392]

Farmer here from Ireland. This loon is not taken seriously by anyone. Spent the whole time attacking Brand.

[@spiral-m]

He clearly said "some" farmers, not all of them. He focused on the politicisation using conspiracy theories by the right-wing rather than the farmers. You seemed to not have watched the video. Would you like some time-stamps?

[@angelafloodgate4437]

@@spiral-m no thank you. I did actually manage to hear this utter nonsens out. What I would like is some names of real people or organizations in Netherlands that represent the blud und boden Nazies.

[@angelafloodgate4437]

@plurabelle5 Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being. Animals are not human beings so murder is not possible where it involves just animals. (The killing of for instance a human embryo would be murder if it is unlawful) Exploitation means treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their labour. Our animals are not persons but lead a fairly good life non the less and they are well looked after. They are in many ways better of than the animals that live in the wild and don’t benefit from the food and safety we provide for them. So no and no.

[@katewilliamson4464]

Holland's Prime Minister has said openly he supports WEF and food technology hubs. To say that the WEF is not powerful is either utterly ignorant or outright fraudulent. I am fourth generation Australian farming. I resent my family's ancestory being potential framed as fascist. My grandmother effectively ran the farm. It was a tough life for all. The family farm is now stocked with a small amount of cattle. It has improved pastures that protect against the ravages of drought. Poisonous weeds are an issue and it troubles me the use of chemical weed killer but it is used sparingly. George blabbers on about looking for systemic solutions and mobilising people. This is vague and useless. What everyone can do is reduce dependency on large corporations that seek to enslave us. WEF is in my view big tech, big pharma and big agricultural's main apparatus to create a corporately led neo feudalism dressed up as socialism to take land holding and crush small to medium sized businesses.

[@geoffcarlin4161]

Bloke's an absolute grifter, Kate.

[@snazzycracker2]

Spoken like a true farmer. Part of the problem, not the solution.

[@katewilliamson4464]

@geoffcarlin4161 Is he lying or does he believe what he is saying? I guess it is difficult to know.

[@katewilliamson4464]

@@snazzycracker2 😂🤣🤣

[@TheCompleteGuitarist]

George is little more than a keyboard warrior and armchair critic. Unfortunately these people manage to do a lot more damage. They can't bear not being able to tell people how to live.

[@Desperatedan592]

I can remember the 60's when farmers were chucking huge quantities of fertiliser and insecticides around and watercourses were stinking with dead fish and dead birds were laying around in the hedgerows and I have a copy of Rachel Carsons Harvest that Kills that opened my eyes to what was happening in our countryside. Thankfully we have moved on from those days and the use of chemicals are much more targeted if only because they are now so expensive, not just fields are targeted but the ares in the fields. The science does not support methane and NO2 being dangerous greenhouse gasses, they are late for the party and water vapour has already eaten all the infrared. I do think the industrial farming of animals is wrong and prefer the traditional ways of animal husbandry even if the meat costs more it is much better quality. When I make a comment I always ask can anyone give one climate prediction that has been correct. Even the bad weather predictions do not stand up to historical data and that includes the latest UN propaganda.

[@ruppollock4392]

As a farmer. I and all farmers have spent billions on building tanks to store slurry, so that it dosent leached into waterways. It is illegal to pollute rivers etc. However many towns and cities are pumping untreated sewage into rivers

[@spiral-m]

@@ruppollock4392 In the UK they just deregulated even more. The chicken atrocity mega farms have killed the Wye river ecosystem and the policy is self-policing by the polluters themselves (the same chicken farmers). What could possibly go wrong?

[@andrewdean948]

People need to feel like they have a choice and they have autonomy, the options that are presented aren't real options because they ultimately end in these farmers losing their farms. What gets characterized as "far right" is an innate human need for autonomy and self direction. This guy is subtly smug and patronizing, especially when speaking about why people are attracted to "conspiracy theories", and it's very easy for someone whose living is writing and journalism to have such a critical view of a farmer with no understanding where those people are coming from and why they react the way they do to these regulations coming down. There's no effort to understand the position of these farmers. There can't be any real effective route to end climate change without consensual action. The way to lower these nitrate levels would be to involve farmers integrally in the process without any threat of their lands being taken from them, and yes being compulsorily purchased is being taken. If any action you wish to take is underpinned by some threat if not followed, then human beings will resist it and that resistance is not pathology, it's natural human behavior, and just like any human need or desire when not met it can become extreme and cause real problems. That is truly what creates political extremism.

[@arsemyth8920]

Spot on

[@jembendell]

Gandhi was very pro farming and made that a key part of the political identity of India. If it had had more influence and not been undermined by corporations seeking industrial profits, the country may have developed in a more balanced way. It's odd to see such an arbitrary framing of politically active farmers. The argument against their views or tactics can still be made without trying to demonise them as sympathisers or pawns of fascism. It's so odd it doesn't make sense and hints at a wider agenda.

[@johnwheeler4034]

he's not demonizing farmers. he's calling out the fascist conspiracies fetishizing of them, at the expense of immigrants.

[@johnnylatham9738]

​@@johnwheeler4034 fascist conspiracies?? Jesus, the establishment loves useful fools

[@johnnylatham9738]

Oh Jesus everybody's a fascist nowadays when they disagree

[@arsemyth8920]

This is what the left do. They label. They manufacture enemies instead of creating solutions and building bridges. When you're right, you don't need to be nasty. Truth is your greatest power

[@arsemyth8920]

@@johnwheeler4034 what's a fascist conspiracy? What fascists are conspiring and what are they conspiring to do? When you mash such phrases together, you come across as a little frothy at the mouth.

[@ruppollock4392]

Ok, now he is accusing farmers of being nazis and fascists. No longer listening to this claptrap.

[@spiral-m]

That is untrue. He clearly said "some" farmers joined the bandwagon, not all of them. He focused on the politicisation using conspiracy theories by the right-wing rather than the farmers doing this themselves. You seemed to not have watched all the video. Would you like some time-stamps?

[@stephenskinner3851]

If we have been using farming for several thousand years and modern farming for at least 200 years, then why are we not seeing ecological collapse. I live near farmland and travel through farmland regularly and I don't see any 'collapse'. I have been to Netherlands and I have not seen environmental collapse. The Netherlands are able to export enormous amounts of food which should not be possible if the Netherlands is suffering environmental collapse. Growing food is vital for human life. George Monbiot will never ever give up on his fixation. He betrays his obsession by equating anyone that disagrees with him as being Nazi White Supremacists. A bit like Sadiq Khan. Blaming people as racist, far right means you have no argument and must resort to ad hominems. My parents and all that generation were on the receiving end of real fascist, so Mr Monbiot's characterization of those opposing the EU and Dutch government is insulting. The worst insult was smearing farmers as far right.

[@arsemyth8920]

💯👍

[@spiral-m]

May be not imminent on the land but you have to consider climate, rising food prices (feeding animals first means way more resources), dead zones etc. It's well-known that topsoils are being heavily degraded. Growing food is vital but the spectrum of methods includes both the solutions but also the disasters. You make it look way too homogenous. Just like the "poor farmers have done nothing wrong" narrative.

[@arsemyth8920]

@@spiral-m propaganda is normally well-known. That's how it works

[@stephenskinner3851]

@@spiral-m I keep hearing this. Where are these dead zones? And what resources are being depleted feeding animals.

[@spiral-m]

@@stephenskinner3851 80% of Amazonian Soy is used to feed animals and a third of the exports are headed to the EU. 91% of Amazonian forest destruction to date is attributable to animal agriculture. Most crops globally are grown to feed animals. This includes most GMO crops. So it as well established that the inefficiency of animal agriculture is ridiculous and dangerous. Re dead zones: Nitrate pollution and dead zones Netherlands: publications tno nl publication 34628497 71lbU4 c05007 pdf uu nl en opinion more-and-more-dead-zones-in-the-oceans egu eu news 414 new-study-oxygen-loss-in-the-coastal-baltic-sea-is-unprecedentedly-severe

[@methods3110]

Calling people names is not a good way to argue.

[@ruppollock4392]

Why is he attacking Brand. Where is his argument apart from not farming animals.

[@mJa2211]

George you have lost it.

[@jsanders100]

I don’t see how Russell Brand could possibly disagree with that closing statement. The far right is always backed by big money and never fights it.

[@barryfaulder742]

Wrong

[@cornishhh]

He works for the Guardian, which would have gone out of business if not for Gates funding.

[@arsemyth8920]

His position makes sense now

[@JoséLupi-m6n]

It sounds like the farmers (90% small to mid size family businesses) is where the big capital is and finantial dark infulence in the world comes from. The truth is that farmers, like in any other kind of business, they respond to incentives and act in their own good sense within those incentives or regulations. These regulations are designed by the political sphere taking influence from different lobbies and we all know which are the powerful ones. Land must be well taken care of and theres an emergency for regeneration. All the solutions are there for a while already and the inetia is on the corrupt systems that run our societies, not on the farmers, those have allways been working work to produce food so people who don't can still eat and therefore, survive. There are many frameworks for regeneration and there is huge knowledge about it in the Netherlands. The best of all is that some of these models can even become proffitable. I don't see the need for such a sudden check-mate to the farmers. We can agree there's a farther right energy rise but then we also must understand that it comes as a reaction to some marxist moves by some European governments. Allways blame the innocent Check mate to the farmers

[@dachuckster2]

I agree with everything apart from his last closing remarks, the host is correct, most of the people propagating the conspiracies are actually good people who want a better world, and Monbiot does not help his cause by alienating this growing group of people, he needs to have the humility to modify this view. We need to win back as many of those people as possible to fight the systemic problem. I really appreciate his views on this being a systemic problem rather than a small number of bad actors it fits very accurately with what we see taking place in every day life across all spectrums of human endeavour. We fall into ecosystems of existence which rationally look organised but are actually much more organic. An understanding of this will facilitate a much greater chance of change.

[@argenieuwenhuijzen2557]

Being Dutch I can only say that Monbiot is giving a painfully accurate description of the situation in the Netherlands. His pronunciation of the German fascist proverb was horrible though (just as fascists deserve!).

[@andrewtrip8617]

It’s only repugnant because it’s in German and has its root in fascism .You can see and hear similar sentiments re homelands ,and earth bond from peoples like Palestinians ,Israelis Maori etc etc are they all far right as well .The fact is both the North Koreans and the Cambodians elevated their farmers during their revolutions .Are they also part of the facist movement ?

[@ruppollock4392]

Already suspicious when you start your argument by accusing people of misinformation.

[@tria380]

G.M.'s position would have been more convincing if he had given specific information about "the alternatives" which were offered to the farmers in The Netherlands, the economic consequences in specific terms such as their contribution to the Dutch economy and what should replace the food production that will be lost. As it stands, his argument sounds ideological and not directed at practical solutions.

[@spiral-m]

He argues for a plant-based system and provides the convincing evidence. He is not against farmers per se. He gives many practical solutions if you follow him, e.g. in his book Regenesis. He mentioned elsewhere that the farmers were offered more than the value of their land, something that Brand failed to mention. RB didn't even say where he was getting his info from. The account by RB and VS was very shabby and childishly simplistic.

[@claretyler8128]

This is very interesting and makes sense but I think it would be more helpful to not talk of ‘sides’. We need to find ways to come together to face the scary reality of climate breakdown and the extinction crisis . I can so understand how it’s easier to scapegoat and blame a small group than face the very frightening situation. I feel both you and Russell are deeply intelligent people who are prepared to look honestly to find ways forward. It would be so good to have open conversations between you both and Vandana Shiva to help us navigate these complicated times.

[@koerttijdens1234]

Haha, you believe in climate breakdown and extinction crisis. You must have read lots of articles, am I right ?

[@christabrouwer]

Brand is on the wrong side of history for some time now, he is defenitely a lost case. Don't be so naieve.

[@jedadruled984]

@@christabrouwer Lets be glad that you are not on the wrong side of history.

[@ioio8021]

😂😂Extinction crisis!! There is NO extinction going on. NONE. ZERO.

[@christabrouwer]

@@ioio8021 Thank you for demonstrating your delusions.

[@jonnymathis]

Why do you keep calling everything far right...what's far right about Russell's views?...

[@spiral-m]

He isn't able to criticise the right except in a very mild way (I agree with a lot of his stuff on Covid b.t.w.). He has become an echo-chamber for right-wingers. He never touches on climate-change or plight of farm-animals on his main channels more than fleetingly because if he did state that they are threats or major moral issues, the rw would get angry and leave, just like GM said. that could mean he just wants to cash in, is not rw, but the effect is he amplifies some garbage sometimes and is very selective and one-sided. Not the best breeding grounds for wisdom and honest debate i.m.o.

[@nellysmoss76]

Uk farmer here , why do you think all uk farms are using massive levels of fertiliser , it’s very expensive tbh , your new elms scheme is aimed at wiping family farms off the map , thanks hope you sleep well at night.

[@robinwiese3357]

The majority of N does NOT come from livestock farming. It's estimated 40% comes from farming and of that 40%, 60% is carried in from abroad. Only about 1/3rd of water pollutants come from agriculture with the remaining 2/3rd from industry, sewage, and domestic wastewater. Your claim "they have done nothing about it" is insulting as well. They've reduced ammonia and nitrogen by roughly half from 1980 levels. When you take into consideration the VAST amount of food this tiny country is able to provide, saying "it's against the law" is ridiculous. It's a foolish law that ought to be reassessed and reevaluated. No, the real problem is that developmental projects were put on hold and somebody wasn't able to line their pockets with WEF approved housing and business centers. Starve the people and children so the rich can get richer. Force farmers who have held the land, fed the people, sweated and slaved for generations just so another euro can go into someone pocket. It's horrible and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

[@spiral-m]

"It's estimated 40% comes from farming and of that 40%, 60% is carried in from abroad. " GM said that the nitrate problem encompasses the import of feed. He isn't talking about Nitrogen. Nitrate is different! The major contributor of nitrate pollution is animal agriculture: dvgw de english-pages topics water nitrates-and-drinking-water. I agree we have a problem with WEF and wealth disparity but putting all farmers into one category of victims is simply ridiculous. Some farmers are poor and some are quite rich and have considerable political influence. The spectrum of farming methods covers good or least impactful to disastrous. Factory farming is a hideous way to treat animals for example. It is way too simplistic to put all farmers into a homogenous group which doesn't exist. I don't generally blame the farmers as they just got caught up in the system although I do know some very objectionable farmers as well as some very nice people. They certainly aren't all victims.

[@robinwiese3357]

@@spiral-m Your point is well taken and I stand corrected.

[@spiral-m]

@@robinwiese3357 thanks for being honest! Being able to admit being wrong seems to be rarer these days ;) I personally have no issue when I discover if I got something wrong either.

[@johnwheeler4034]

20:05 both great quotes by the interviewer: influencer, being too influenced by own following. and georges's quote you can be loved not wisely, but too well (Othello) by your audience. I always knew brand would become a bad penny. a very unstable narcissistic twit

[@alexisdoesdemocracy4405]

I know, as the woman said, we need to get Brand to repeat what George wants. Don’t know where people get the idea of conspiracies from. All the Far Right Fascists I guess.

[@methods3110]

Klaus Schwab is not scary? I look at this absurd video because he has a soothing ASMR voice. The more nonsense the better, as I feel a fuzzy feeling in my head.

[@DominionMovementDotOrg]

fyi though don’t link to his (or others’ such) vids or channel bc it incentivises them. outrage clicks and watches benefit still

[@trish3580]

Excellent interview. Greatly appreciated George's integrity when he disagreed with the interviewer at the beginning of the closing remarks. Sometimes interviewees will say "yes but" when not in agreement.

[@christabrouwer]

Yes, I had that feeling too! Well put!

[@susanleatherbarrow2495]

Integrity and Monbiot should not be in the same sentence.

[@christabrouwer]

@@susanleatherbarrow2495 Loll, because?!

[@justsomestranger4894]

​@@christabrouwer Well, clearly the Dutch don't agree with him Since the farmers won the election

[@susanleatherbarrow2495]

@@christabrouwer Because he is advocate of WEF. He is for big business. He WAS a supporter of Russell Brand, not any more. He is a supporter of Bill Gates. He does n't condemn the carbon footprint of elites travel. He does n't take on the heads of Shell, BP etc , just moans about the damage done by ordinary people.

[@alexisdoesdemocracy4405]

0:53 when interests align, there is no need for conspiracy 🤦🏽 so dishonest.

[@juliegreenslade2878]

Well said!

[@rjbiker66]

Hows about the election results in the netherlands :)

[@ferriveiro3101]

George Monbiot is my hero. I learned so much about environment issues from him. I didn't know much about what's going on the Netherlands except from my friend who lives there, and after hearing everything that George said about that issue, it confirmed my suspicions that my friend has been sucked into far right circles on Twitter and she doesn't realize it because she's been spouting all the same talking points. :(

[@andrewtrip8617]

You admit to a knowledge vacuum and have been sucked in by a political movement with an agenda that ends with the destruction of agriculture and the feeding of the world by an unproven technology?Implicit in You post is the concept that any alternative choice is (right wing ) Be careful what you wish for and who you support out of your ignorance.When George has proven the concept for a few generations maybe then you should consider adopting his-creed .

[@methods3110]

Somehow asylum seekers on dinghies crept into the discussion.

[@waldopaper6682]

We need all the allies we can get George. What you said about Russell Brand is bloody pish do you know it

[@jonathandawson6711]

George Monbiot - rock of sense

[@meruluss]

What planet are you now on, George?

[@tobykelsey4459]

He was born on planet Middle-Class Environmentalist but migrated to planet Totalitarian Marxist many decades ago.

[@randomfarmer]

Well, they could just put all the excess manures into biodigesters and get some free heating gas out of the deal. Why doesn't Monbiot mention that? Why do all roads have to lead back to going vegan?

[@PedroMontero-ki8pe]

George Monbiot gets it twisted from the start; not just with the historical processes of eutrophication but also in regard to scapegoating. He may not be completely wrong, but gets it twisted to the point of being misleading. So, first, the "eutrophication" of European rivers and coastlines was already palpable at the dawn of Modernity, when the many interests that increasingly drove deforestation, led to growing soil erosion dumping into rivers and seas. Of course, as Mondibot points, this has been further aggravated by importing nutrients from around the world, to be dumped as manure, however, upon a soil that was already suffering from continuous erosion. Mass-ranching may have exacerbated the problem, but the problem was already with us long ago. Indeed, such processes of environmental destruction can be traced down to the very Earliest Governments, as James C. Scott has put it in "Against the Grain", having these to increasingly grab more and more land and resources, in order to maintain their claims to Authority. Our current problem, however, is not so much, as Monbiot states, that not even one person in a hundred has grasped that we are looking at the collapse of earth systems. For her part, in "The Value of a Whale", Adrienne Buller says, rather, that "the trouble is not economists' advocacy against action so much as the nature of the 'action' that mainstream economics prescribes" (2022: 23). Nevertheless, to my senses, she comes only half way into the issue; for the very same could be said about the environmentalists calling for more policies and, therefore, Authority. Indeed, one could say that what Monbiot and Buller get wrong is, first, that there is any kind of "scientific consensus" and, secondly, that what they may highlight as the "scientific consensus" have the "causes" to our problems wrong. For what such "scientific consensus" is pointing to as the causes to our ecological crisis, are nothing but the symptoms of a crisis of habitation that goes far back into history than the advent of neoliberalism, corporations and financialisation. As such, the solutions proposed from such "scientific consensus" to our problems are not just useless but counterproductive to the brink of catastrophic. Indeed, the Dutch case is very illustrative of this. Thus, as Monbiot points, rather than implementing policies in the name of "sustainability" right from the 80s, they have made their breakthrough quite recently. However, this has not so much happened despite the "farming lobby" but, rather, once "carbon markets" are fully functioning and the Big Crop has no need for further postponing such policies. Much to the contrary. Now, the Big Crop can wait for medium and small farmers to sell their lands, in order to grab them, continue farming the same way, and outsourcing their pollution excesses in the "carbon markets", through the "sylvan" assets previously grabbed around the world, mostly where indigenous people have been inhabiting. Whether there is an "agenda" or not driving these processes, Market and State forces align again to further increase personal distress and social hierarchisation, without any decrease of environmental destruction. And, for those who may not know it, as an architect, anthropologist and sustainability strategist, I am seeing the very same dynamics to take place in regard to the real state. "Carbon taxes" are planned to be imposed on owners, if they do not elevate the energetic standards of their houses. Little is said of the role the Market and State have played into shaping an industry from which they have benefited and small and medium owners have now to suffer. If the Market and the State want to elevate such standards from which both are to immensely benefit, it should not be at the cost of those who had little to do in shaping such an industry, but through their own funding and disempowerment. Of course, this would lead to the collapse of both, Market and State. To such an extent, it seems utterly ridiculous to point to Big Money and Big Government, as Monbiot does, while disregarding personalities as Bill Gates or Klaus Schwab; who, the former is the biggest owner of farming land of the USA and funder of the WHO, as well as the latter presides to hub at which Big Money and Big Government meet. Furthermore, Monbiot is just doing the very same thing that he is blaming Russell Brand of. If Russell conjures the "Great Reseat", Monbiot uses the "Far-Right". That way Monbiot is building on the very same process that he condemns of such far-right of doing, and that imperialist projects have always liked: to build "sides" in order to "clash"; whether for a clash of cultures, civilisations, classes, genders or political parties. Whatever our different circumstances might be, we are on the same boat towards sustainability or catastrophe. Therefore, we should not be foreclosing ourselves behind any claim to Authority (for example, the one the scientific consensus of the turn may seem to grant) against any kind of enemy, but working our way towards empathic attention, care and respect. As such, although I agree with Monbiot in the futility and danger of scapegoating a few single persons, to my understanding, is also not a matter of financialisation, corporations and neoliberalism taking over an otherwise well-functioning way of inhabiting. For, we are missing the most important issue. That is, that our ecological crisis is not derived from an ethical crisis, in which "greed" wreaks havoc. It runs far deeper through our daily gestures. Thus, in any case, whether or not this processes are led by an agenda, as the one the WEF has made public in statements for a future with no personal property but built on corporative property, is not relevant at all. Because, whether there is an "agenda" or not, whether we are confronting evil or stupidity, as only the "value criticism" of, among others, Moishe Postone, Robert Kurz and Anselm Jappe seem to notice, the very form of "Quantity-Value" would led us to the very same outcome in one or the other case. That is, how Money in particular and Quantity-Value in general work, does inexorably lead us into increasing personal distress, social hierarchisation and environmental destruction. If we are going to escape the monolithic view of "environmentalism" (however much its various parties may disagree on insignificant issues), it can only be by overcoming not just the categories of Money and Commodity, Labour and Value, as well as Capital and State but the very compulsion of "categorisation" as well. That means, in short, to go beyond the sense that one can make a claim to Authority. For, if a narrative has taken more lives through history than others (unrivaled by the so-called "conspiracy theories" that Monbiot so much fears and points as his personal scapegoats), this has been that of Progress at the service of Authority.

[@tobykelsey4459]

Monbiot has a long, long, history of misrepresenting his most extreme implausible interpretation of evidence as "scientific consensus". It's not a mistake, it's a deliberate dishonest propaganda tactic, and why he refuses to debate actual scientists.

[@dzerweck]

Bull!

[@JohanWolfs]

Thumbs down is not working. 😄

[@jim-es8qk]

What is it with communists and farmers? Historically you never seem to like them very much.

[@glenmccarthy8482]

Welcome to the craziest planet in the universe.Humans the architects of their own extinction.

[@bernardpayne5050]

Not convinced George sorry.

[@Manic.miner2077]

Could Russell Brand be trying to bring the two sides together? He’s definitely not a far right spokesperson, his view on how things should be and how people are treated are the exact opposite of the far right. I can’t deny his audience is primarily right wing/Trump types, but are we not seeing his bigger picture? If humanity is to survive we must all come together under one global flag and help each other that’s my view and I’ve seen that in a lot of his ideology. The “right wing conspiracy theorists” are easily manipulated, could he be trying to bring them round to a more rational way of thinking, eventually bringing the left and right together? Obviously something like this takes time and some playing to “the mob”

[@spiral-m]

He seems to be showing a trend of echo-chamber increasingly. Maybe I am missing something. Seems a long shot to make childishly simplistic one-sided accounts with no links to sources, in order to then go on to educate people into being wiser.

[@3brenm]

No he won't bring the right over to the left or even centre left because the right will immediately leave him if he supports things like social safety nets, housing the homeless, independent unions striking etc, so he's gradually phasing out all of those soc dem issues and focusing more and more on big conspiracy theories that get the views and are of huge interest the political right because they divert attention away from more left wing issues.

[@MrAvant123]

Dont like what Russel brand says but Monbiot is also grossly biased in what he spouts regarding the badness of livestock production....

[@Ivan_BSGO]

Which earth systems and how are they collapsing?

[@johnwheeler4034]

the soil systems - nitrate. he mentioned it at the beginning

[@Ivan_BSGO]

@@johnwheeler4034 Crop rotation has been a thing for a very very long time. The Talmud talks about planting practices. That isn't quite the example of earths systems collapsing. If you know something more about what he's saying pls explain.

[@Ivan_BSGO]

@queerdo It's simply that we've known about it for thousands of years and have solutions to keep the soil healthy. It matters because I'm curious which earth systems are collapsing and how. If you know anything more I would appreciate some info about it.

[@Ivan_BSGO]

@queerdo I'll say it again, which earth systems are collapsing and how? If you don't know then don't worry about it. If you do then please tell me.

[@Ivan_BSGO]

@queerdo So let me guess; you're saying that nitrogen acidifies the soil and this is happening all over the world with no way to stop it?

[@veganevolution]

Fair interviewer

[@danwohlslagel1277]

Dredging up paranoia about "Fascism" has nothing to do with solving the problems with farming and food production, economics, or ecology. I would like to hear about workable solutions in place of political or ideological narratives. I live in a rural area so I am familiar with the concentration of nitrates / phosphates within the local environment. It is a problem. However- we still need to produce food ( for the world), and the Dutch farmers are among the the most efficient on earth. The world will still need food- more food in fact. We can't stop making food in the West and not experience a loss if life in countries which import food production. This is basic common sense.

[@dalstein3708]

The world produces enough food to feed everyone, but the food isn't distributed fairly, and production by raising livestock is hugely inefficient. We can save the environment and still feed humanity, if we switch to a largely plant-based diet. George Monbiot has written about this exrensively. Raising the alarm about fascism is not paranoia, BTW. Extreme right-wing groups are on the rise in many countries, including the Netherlands. And the local party (FVD) is trying to hijack the sympathy for farmers for their own gain. Needless to say, these parties don't care about the environment.

[@ruppollock4392]

@queerdo Only about a third of agri land can grow crops. Of that third, many countries, like Ireland, do not have the weather to grow bread quality wheat. Therefore you have to have mixed farming, dairy,beef,lamb and the grains not suitable for humans fed to chickens,pigs etc. It's just dosent make any sense to go vegan or organic as you would need to find more land...cut more forests down.

[@arsemyth8920]

5.3k views and 166 thumbs up.

[@Summer-tv7rz]

167 now, I just liked this video 🤣

[@charlesashton349]

Funny both of you, RB and GM, point the finger of blame at big money, big corporations, yet you're at each other's throats! Sounds like someone's been caught up in a divide and conquer scenario!

[@CICAZZONE]

8000 views vs Brand. Pathetic

[@janetwesterhof3629]

Last week, far-right politicians voted to limit climate organizations' ability to file lawsuits against the government.

[@matrixist]

That is because Gov'ts are clueless to the facts of science.

[@jacobushubertuskirchner9948]

Nonsens. Deze vorm van juridisch getouwtrek ondermijnt het democratisch proces. Problemen met inertie van overheden dienen langs politieke wegen behandeld worden.

[@Trevorjesuischarlie]

I’m a fascist and so is he

[@666bruv]

All modern ag has toxic inputs

[@ReyO1986]

You two are completely diluted.

[@arsemyth8920]

They're also completely deluded

[@jsanders100]

@@arsemyth8920put us right then?

[@wentadi]

George Schwabiot

[@lindahuseyin4210]

How much you been paid up then so hilarious i thought you was joking hahahahaha

[@bramsanjanssan4908]

People want to keep their heads in the sand... And they won't even blame themselves when the totality of this terrifying reality finally comes crashing down on us all.

[@stephenskinner3851]

Yes, when we have stopped farming?

[@arsemyth8920]

The terrifying reality of Net zero

[@smoothtalkerguitarsuk4431]

GEORGE - YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!!

[@michaelrasmussen5928]

Bla...bla... Leftist whining.

[@johnwheeler4034]

go back to bed. poor baby. go to your new fuhrer.

[@johnwheeler4034]

George Monbiot is my hero. He tells the truth and people react violently to it. Just like they did to Christ

[@arsemyth8920]

I only got annoyed when he started name-calling

[@lindahuseyin4210]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@markinvelez]

Oh George you are so deluded

[@arsemyth8920]

It's worse than that. He's lying

[@spiral-m]

why exactly?

[@utd4theleagueutd4theleague17]

in related column on the left there is a video that says....Monbiot on "why we should stop farming animals" Just sayin.....