George Will and Jonah Goldberg - The conservative sensibility | VIEWPOINT

[@noyopacific]

First time viewer. As a firm Centrist I found it refreshing to be able to hear a conversation between intelligent, reasonable and honest Conservatives. Thanks for the video!

[@rickbaker8021]

They are both grifters. Always have been.

[@jensgronning4436]

They’re not conservatives. They’re hacks

[@Catch22699]

Another informative discussion with 2 smart, polite and respectful Americans. The classic outstanding George Will and Jonah as the next generation of conservative leadership. We need more discussions like this from interesting and thoughtful writers bringing history alive…I enjoyed every minute!

[@rickbaker8021]

Jonah has turned his "Conservative " years ago. They are both warmongering Neo Cons. Who like war.

[@MrBILLSTANLEY]

I've considered myself somewhat aware of political issues. George Will has been on my radar for years. I'm adding Jonah Goldberg to that list. This was a wonderful conversation. I'm beginning to understand just how little I know.

[@999reader]

A wonderful conversation, thank you. This from another moderate centrist.

[@JeffTY77450]

It’s 08 August, 2024, and I just finished watching this (for the first time). How enjoyable! And so much “food for thought.” No conspiracy theories, no one calling the other names, no one talking past the other, no “if this happens, or doesn’t happen, democracy is doomed”-no over-the-top hyperbole. Yes, I know, Jonah and George are on the same side of the ideological divide and so we shouldn’t expect them to be contentious. Still, it was refreshing to listen to two intelligent, articulate men just having an intelligent conversation. These two are the face of true conservatism, not the kooks who have hijacked so much of the movement. 🇺🇸

[@monkey-trial...6578]

Oh George. What a dude. He’s obviously very abstemious because he looks like he did 35 years ago! I do love this man.

[@Damian-dv6qx]

We need to be more like the European strain of Conservatism of Roger Scruton and Douglas Murray. Hayek wrote an important essay, "Why I Am Not a Conservative." American Conservatism is leaning further and further towards libertarianism. If we don't address the ills of liberalism and the hyper-individualism that Tocqueville warned us about, we won't conserve any of the better side of American Exceptionalism.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

Hayek meant that he wasn't a European conservative. As Will explains in this video, conservatives in Europe have defended existing hierarchies, institutions and orders, including monarchies and tribes. Hayek may have been sympathetic to Will's definition of American Conservatism. If you think that Americans calling themselves "conservative" have been becoming more libertarian, you haven't been paying attention. Most trends have been in the European direction, which might please you. Trump talked a lot about protecting America from international trade and immigrants. Biden hasn't done much to reverse such Trump administration policies, though he talks about them less.

[@christopherrobbins9985]

Good, sober thoughtful discussion. I continue to be impressed with Will's instant recall of various and sundry historical events.

[@DionKenney]

A refreshing - articulate, rational, informed, and yes polite - discussion on the significant challenges the body politic must address. Thank you, gentlemen.

[@jimedgcomb4597]

Yes, great discussion... Too bad they didn't speak a language that would be conducive to both educate, inform and persuade the AVERAGE American... Speaking to the masses will reap benefits... Speaking only to elites will only turn those masses further against you... jmho.....

[@briane173]

@@jimedgcomb4597 I'd have hoped that the tenor of this discussion might _inspire_ "the masses" to better educate themselves on these fine gentlemen's view of the American condition and the state of our politics, so as to at least gain an understanding of why _some_ modicum of "elitism" is essential to a functioning national-level political system. Instead it is quite apparent that "the masses" (I hate that term) don't want to exercise their cerebellums beyond one-syllable words, spoken by a circus barker in a business suit, that can be reduced to a short enough sound bite to capture their attention for perhaps 7 seconds before they're distracted by more 'important' pursuits -- like replenishing the beer stock in the fridge, for example. My problem with communicating to the level of the "average" American is that en bloc "average" Americans add up to a movement of populists, with pitchforks and tiki torches at the ready, who are less interested in solutions to prop up our institutions than in voicing their displeasure -- that joining an angry mob is sufficient to move our government in one direction or another. As the Founders intended, our system is much more nuanced than that -- DELIBERATELY -- in order to smooth out the predilections of mob rule. Since the dawn of social media, people have been in no mood for civil and educated discussion of the machinations of republican government. I'm not blaming "the masses;" the current populist movement is only possible in a vacuum of leadership, and we have that in spades presently -- a Congress freely and willingly abdicating its power to the Executive branch, the latter of which is only too happy to dictate to "the masses." I think that a proper civics education would've benefited "the masses" and in turn benefited the Republic; but we haven't been giving our children a heavy dose of civics in our public schools, because the last thing government wants is an educated populace schooled in the nuances of Constitutional government and its purpose for being.

[@mizoconstruction8515]

Good piece

[@littlerainyone]

I have to listen to these two guys now & then just to keep my sanity.

[@jps0117]

Two of my favorite thinkers and writers.

[@jojowhite9296]

These two use common sense and that is truly lacking in the new Republican Party.

[@taylorledbetter6337]

Jonah writes at The Dispatch now, great publication with thoughtful writing

[@Mdebacle]

What is missing from this discussion is the fact that politics is the new religion. As Cesar Sayoc described a Trump rally like "a new found drug".

[@thomasgassett7157]

Moron! It's the Left that is taken with its religion of identity politics, socialism, and global warming. The republicans are the only American political party we have.

[@williamchadwick7948]

Mdebacle As opposed to the Democrats with their retrogressive State-cultism.

[@Mdebacle]

@@thomasgassett7157 If we see the religion in both sides, we can see the humor. kzbin.info/www/bejne/haW7n5x3j7FnoKc

[@mickberry164]

@@thomasgassett7157 If you refrained from name calling, I would give your position more consideration.

[@thomasgassett7157]

@@mickberry164 If you're so offended by 'name' calling' to dismiss a good point ... that's your fucking loss.

[@anneoneill280]

I love this man! I dont agree with him on everything but I always respect his point of view and admire his intelligence and integrity. He is one hell of a wordsmith!

[@jorgesuarez7077]

It is annoying when the interviewer talks longer than the interviewee. I, for one, would have liked to hear more from George Will.

[@walterclaycooke]

Great conversation. Very interesting and thought provoking.

[@charlesnwarren]

George F. Will, handing off the torch of passive conservativism to Jonah Goldberg. And for all that's worth, he might as well hand it over to Whoopi Goldberg.

[@Ephisus]

It's always great to see Will.

[@davidsolomon8203]

As a Black , born and raised in the segregated South, I wonder why I am drawn more to the conservatism of George Will than I am to the progressive/liberal ideas resident in the Democratic Party.

[@dewaynebaugh1497]

Because like joe biden say you aint black i know !!!

[@dewaynebaugh1497]

The first three words you said gave you away .jut think what black man would use that phrase as a black like hes a black but neglected the word man

[@edarcuri182]

Intelligent people think for themselves and not by membership in a group defined by color.

[@alainriviere7950]

God? There is no God. Except, yes there is. He’s George Will.

[@jonnyw82]

No liberal conservatives? I don’t know any conservative conservatives.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

At 29:11, where George cuts Jonah back on localism: clearly Goldberg has never lived in a farm-county town of 800. Will is absolutely correct, and I'll take his word for it that it was Madison recognizing the danger of local little dictatorships in the early-industrial America of 250 years ago.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

Funny, I thought "X" was a fine surname. Was the fine Malcolm a member of your family, citizen?

[@wsegen]

IMO, Men At Work is the best in its genre. Thanks GW.

[@paulstillman2878]

Very informative.

[@glennhubbard5008]

The irony of those two discussing "the future of conservatism". High nerve.

[@debrasmith4675]

The ‘remnant. Is a hugely important and central biblical concept.

[@KenCAgron]

(I believe this conversation happened in 2019.) Interesting and wide-ranging discussion of some key elements of American conservative thought and problems and challenges that have developed within our nation's political system. Some of the interesting topics G. Will and J. Goldberg discussed: ---at what level of society or government should power be exercised within the American economic/social/governmental system? ---currently, too much power concentrated in the executive branch of the federal government, especially the president. ---the decline in the power of the major political parties. ---people mistakingly looking to a U.S. President or populist movement to give their life meaning. ---and other topics

[@jonmeador4613]

Congress can make no law concerning, touching on, having anything to do with establishing a religion. The restriction is much broader than just establishing a national religion. Read it!

[@ianboard3555]

I get frustrated by Will. I generally agree with him on many issues, but the problem is that you have to get elected. You can't be a high priest maintaining some unattainable vision of purity - you have to appeal to voters emotionally and at their level, in a way they can understand.

[@edarcuri182]

Which is why some priests deliver sermons in the local church while others toil and pray in monasteries. Will's gift is in establishing the basis for thinking about policy and society. In any case, I believe more elections can be won by those who have thought about policy and are, then, able to express it in the terms voters' understand. We have too few able to do that, in my opinion. Thus, "persuasion." Will tells us what to persuade.

[@Tsnore]

When did Neocon circa 2002-2006 become conservative today?

[@Markdfadf]

Neither one are neocons and neither one advocates George W. Bush compassionate conservatism. On foreign policy, George Will is basically a libertarian. Goldberg still probably more hawkish. Both are small government people domestically, in contrast to the mish mash of socialist ideas like tariffs Trump is pushing.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

@@Markdfadf I'm not sure if Jonah would claim the label "neoconservative," but he often rants about how it originally described liberals who were "mugged by reality." He's annoyed that people often use "neocon" to describe foreign policy preferences while the term originally applied to domestic issues.

[@Markdfadf]

@@JonathanRossRogers Both Jonah and George Will are classical liberals on domestic policy. The original neocons like Irving Kristol were not enthusiastic about classical liberals ideals.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

@@Markdfadf I'm not sure what "neocon" means and I'm not inclined to use the term given how loaded it has become. It seems that you think that neocons are not classical liberals?

[@JG-qt3pn]

Well, obviously, since this is a rational and reasonable discussion by two conservatives the Trump Occupation will attack them as RINOs.

[@edarcuri182]

Trumpkins already attack them - if they even know who they are.

[@junglemoose2164]

They are just out of touch. (Though their TDS dies make me wonder if they ever were conservative.)

[@JonathanRossRogers]

@@junglemoose2164 Yeah, Trump and attitudes toward him define conservatism! ;)

[@tubelarr]

There was a time when I would have been interested in what Will and Goldberg had to say. No longer, and not because they were so wrong but because their behavior was so atrocious while being wrong.

[@tubelarr]

@@josephmccarthy8556 I was following Goldberg on Twitter during the election. I was not even supporting Trump at the time but Goldberg's comments got so bad I had to unfollow him.

[@rickrudd]

I was 100% against Trump in 2015. The MSM and supposed public intellectuals like Will and Goldberg behaved so badly that by Nov 2016, I was 100% supportive of him. These people are no different than establishment democrats. They conserve nothing. They're absolutely worthless. They are not fighters. They are not profound thinkers. They are not brave. They're raging douchebags.

[@tubelarr]

@@rickrudd I was the same. I could not have imagined voting for Trump at the start. I remember telling some of the NeverTrump people on Twitter that they were pushing people to Trump with their behavior. A couple of them blocked me for that.

[@deniimacdougall]

tubeler Never was that crazy about Trump initially but when those two couldn't even get on the bandwagon after the convention I realized they really were sad losers!

[@165Dash]

Why bring up an idiotic example like banning rap music as an example of “local control…to be or not to be”. Why is it always some “culture war” example in these sorts of discussions. If George Will is so focused on government just “filling potholes” so to speak, why not discuss libertarianism and building codes, standards for road widths or zoning ordinances?

[@rickbaker8021]

Both men are wrong on the issues at hand. But Will had already gone off down the tubes when he endorsed Obama.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

For any members of the Remnant, here's the Isengard theme to play whenever Wilson is mentioned. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sInLdIyua6d_fJI

[@johnboatwright2268]

we have romanticized process over results

[@18trintrin]

My issue is with Goldberg... have been a Will fan for a few decades now. Does Goldberg ever interview anyone besides himself? Read the room, buddy... you're talking to George will and you are either trying to impress, or trying to catch Elisha's cloak. or running for office...but ask a question and step aside. The issue for me is reason and intellectualism. Conservatives used to be the smart people... Goldwater whose distant protege was Reagan at least surrounded himself with smart people, was followed by Bush Sr., who was smart but not a leader...Climton, who was more slick than smart, Bush Jr. was not smart at all, loved loyalty over all and then we get someone actually smart, Obama, who underestimated the power that money brought medicine, but still did some. But now we have Trump, a moron and opportunist, and is supported by Graham and McConnel who are pure politicians playing angles... All of the intelligence now is on the left... Harris, Buttigeg, and Warren.

[@KRGruner]

Uh? "All the intelligence is on the Left?" Ah, OK, it's really intelligent to view Huge Government and massive spending (free goodies for everyone who asks for them) as the solution to every single "problem" supposedly identified out there (including free abortions for transgender men!), it's really intelligent to deny science (regarding gender/sexuality), really intelligent to lie all the time about America being intrinsically racist, islamophobic, transphobic, or whatever the phobia of the day is, really intelligent to propose abolishing borders and give every one in the entire world who wants it all the same free goodies as US citizens (what could go wrong with that?). So yeah, sure, with that kind of "intelligence," who needs stupidity, eh? Trump may not be the sharpest tool in the toolbox, but in comparison to the clown show on the Dem side, he looks like a genius!

[@lukasstrait9307]

@@KRGruner, For anyone to make the outrageously idiotic and ignorant claim that Obama, Harris, Buttigieg and Warren are smart, intelligent or intellectual, says a lot more about this lummox who made the statement than anything else. Btw, Will is no Conservative. Fake. He is actually a self-absorbed elitist windbag. Goldberg is just another self-aggrandizing sack of dog crap. If these two morons brains were dynamite they couldn't blow their nose. A couple of pompous asshats. Smh

[@joshuawheelock8874]

David Bialik i am overwhelmed by the intelligence on the left. talking about the importance of abortions for transgender men and offering generous social programs to the entire hemisphere when no planned economy(which they advocate for) has ever been able to provide even basic welfare programs for its own citizens. it is also highly intelligent in their clown world to espouse an imminent environmental doomsday and then invite tens of millions of "migrants" into advanced indistrial economies where their carbon footprint goes up a thousand fold, invite in islamic culture while advocating vociferously for feminism and gay rights, advocating conspiracy theories that a billionaire is somehow a compromised russian asset as he builds up the us military and crushes a petrostate like russia by ramping up us energy production massively all while those who actively and transparently use government service as a tool to enrich themselves are left unexamined, encourage desparately poor people to venture thousands of miles and endure females being raped and children being bought and sold so they can arrive and be put in "concentration camps" all while espousing "me too" and caring so much about the children, etc., etc.

[@usandmexico]

I'm not a conservative, and I don't follow what Roman Catholic conservatives say in particular, but their mention caught my attention. If you go back in American history, you will find RCs in the US following their bishop in Rome and criticising classical liberalism. This includes what they called Americanism, and part of it involved the separation of church and state. For all the complaints about Sharia having a corroding influence, these other people seem more influential. I'm not concerned about them yet, but I am not comforted by the history of devout Romanism in Europe or Latin America.

[@zaqvoir4856]

love the orange clothes pins

[@franks3509]

Never Trumpers' still arrogant, still losing.

[@TheOKTerrificable]

So this is what controlled opposition talk about to justify their existence?

[@JeffreyGillespie]

I'd never heard of Goldberg but he is one sharp cookie.

[@frankiedogturner1516]

So what you are saying is that he is clever little traitor.

[@edarcuri182]

Jonah Goldberg is also very funny. He is a clever writer, not as hilarious as P.J. O'Rourke but as capable as O'Rourke in presenting profound ideas with humor.

[@jensgronning4436]

Cookies aren’t sharp you dolt

[@mcnallyaar]

Of course the "Isaiah" in the title of the piece is none other than the biblical book of Isaiah. Mr. Goldberg was likely downplaying that to appeal to Mr. Will's adamant atheism.

[@willmpet]

There are 'evolving standards of decency' and our current administration breaks those standards.

[@chrisrecord5625]

The Imperial Presidency has been ushered in by the Entertainer-in-Chief after auditioning for 14 seasons on NBC.

[@thomasgassett7157]

Look up imperial, as you know not what you speak

[@chrisrecord5625]

@@thomasgassett7157 Someone missed that history class😉 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Presidency

[@alanreinart1548]

My loved him. I always regarded him an arrogant

[@alanreinart1548]

@@BonRain8734 far from it. As a child regarding him as pompeuos and a intellectual wannabe.

[@publiusovidius7386]

"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy."--David Frum

[@grayman7208]

quoting a clown loses the argument automatically.

[@abhimanyukarnawat7441]

Democracy is mob rule

[@grayman7208]

@@abhimanyukarnawat7441 yep.

[@publiusovidius7386]

@@abhimanyukarnawat7441 lol. Democracy is rule by the people. Democracy has worked well in the US and Europe for two centuries.

[@publiusovidius7386]

@@grayman7208 lol. Then the argument was not lost. You're the clown. I didn't quote you.

[@johnboatwright2268]

to reach across the aisle is meaningless

[@SSArcher11]

You lost me at "despising" Woodrow Wilson. Wilson was a visionary, not a victim of Zeitgeist. But, why is progressive Wilson seen as any different from progressive Theodore Roosevelt? Because he could actually express himself?

[@amcynic]

Wilson argued against separation of powers. He was a wannabe despot.

[@SSArcher11]

@@amcynic You lost me, as well.

[@carolm62]

Wilson literally imprisoned people for disagreeing with him. He had open contempt for constitutional restraints on the government, especially the presidency.

[@jjrbarnett]

Wilson is one of the worst Presidents. He brought US unto WWI. He was a Klansman. He laid a foundation for FDR and expansion.

[@SSArcher11]

@@BonRain8734 I assure you I prefer to be lost when I have to read uninformed attacks on Woodrow Wilson.

[@southernbreeze3278]

who'd of ever thought donald trump would be the one to prove to the world what a couple of clods these guys are

[@JonathanRossRogers]

Yeah, Trump just keeps winning! ;)

[@castello544]

blah blah blah

[@beginization]

They both really tribal