Trying to Make Sense of Doom 2's Maps - An Interpretation

[@GermanPeter]

Here's some notes on the maps that didn't make it into the video, for one reason or another. In general: zombies and even Revenants are almost always stand-ins for any and all mutated/ zombified humans, either soldiers or civilians. I feel like Imps are also meant to be humans in certain maps, like in Suburbs, due to the similar size and structure. Maybe the Imps in the Crusher are former inmates. Someone also pointed out that the first 11 maps likely ALL take place in the starport, so I guess there are a couple fewer city levels in the game after all. I don't think it changes the fact that Entryway is an airport/ train station, Underhalls is a subway system and so on. Only the Waste Tunnels aren't regular apartment buildings, I suppose. Though, maybe that's where the personnel lives, similar to the shacks at the beginning of Half-Life: Blue Shift. Would also mean that the Crusher isn't a prison after all, but a waste treatment facility of the starport or something. Refueling Base: the hole in the ceiling might have not been there originally. The floor is filled with ash, indicating something went wrong there, and the walls and the rim of the holes are also using the pebbles textures, implying it's broken. I still think the original intention for the map before it was cut from Doom 1 was how I described it in the video however. The Factory: the map is filled with Arachnotrons and Mancubi, which could imply this is where they're made, as they're a blend of organic material and machines. Doomguy probably went there to halt their production. This also makes the place more horrifying, as it means that humans were already willingly creating demon-machine-hybrids on EARTH, long before Doom 2 even took place. This could also mean that the "vehicles" getting refueled in the Refueling Base are the Arachnotrons. Suburbs: the entrails in the red brick house might not be human ones, but again insinuate that the building is now alive and you're walking inside of it. So the humans weren't just stuffed inside of it, but were EATEN by the house. The Citadel: the small shack you spawn in front of is likely connected to the sewers, as that's how you exited the Courtyard. Nice bit of consistency there. The Spirit World: the final climb shows the mountain is made up of different materials. There's dirt, ash, rocks, pebbles, etc. This could be another hint towards how old this part is, that you're walking on different layers of sediment and rock. Icon of Sin: it was always strange to me that the walls are not blood, but acid, especially since the other textures are smeared with blood. However, it's possible that it's meant to be stomach acid, almost as if you're literally walking through someone's decaying body, perhaps the Icon of Sin's original one. Or considering that the floor is covered in brown liquid, maybe it's... something else. Literally the most vile place on earth, in that sense.

[@ghoulbuster1]

Check out "hell on earth starter pack" some of the theories and idea you present on the video are shown in some of the maps.

[@ShinoSarna]

If Entryway is a station... doesn't it make sense it's for the passenger starships? You mentioned it being similar to train stations or airports - why would starship travel look much differently? There's entrance, baggage claim, and waiting area. The exit could be some kind of internal tram system used by the employees for moving around the starport area (I mean, it's to the side in a small door - it makes sense it's probably not the main way to leave for the passengers.)

[@ShinoSarna]

Also if the Crusher isn't a regular prison, it could be holding cells for prisoners being transported off-world. We know some criminals serve their sentence in space - for example that's exactly what happened to Doomguy at beginning of Doom 1, you were sent to Mars as punishment for assaulting a superior officer. There could still be the concept of it being waste disposal - perhaps the prisoners are just forced labor. I mean, I think saying that the crusher isn't really a crusher, when the level is explicitly titled "Crusher" is reaching a bit.

[@juagoguago7961]

Even if the first 11 levels are all "Starport" themed, I like the idea of some of the levels occasionally having nearby neighborhoods or houses leaking through as it helps give the game more civilian areas than there actually are. You could nitpick about why UAC facilities reside near the suburbs but then I would ask what makes you think they wouldn't do that.

[@reddy64]

i like to think some green liquids in doom games are baron blood

[@Real_Scott_Pilgrim]

Doom 2: Keeping Atari's "Please just imagine the game makes sense" dream alive.

[@KudoRedfox]

More like "Our engine can't handle that shit"

[@DinnerForkTongue]

​​@@KudoRedfox Our engine couldn't handle it, we didn't know how to implement it, and we had no time to sit and brainstorm any alternatives. After all, there's some _brilliant_ megawads that work entirely under vanilla constraints.

[@glitchedoom]

​@@DinnerForkTongueThe wad creators of today also don't have to make sure their maps can run on a 386 with 4MB of RAM.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

@@glitchedoom On the contrary. The limitations you're mentioning are covered in the most basic complevels, and there are plenty of wads that don't extrapolate the Doom engine in any way, such as Stickney Installation and TNT Revilution.

[@Matzu-Music]

@@glitchedoom They can also see what they're working on, while they're working on it.

[@ShallowVA]

New community project: Doom 2 The Way GermanPeter Did Those edits to the map to illustrate your interpretations are really neat!

[@GermanPeter]

Thank you!

[@aurorafox1283]

Count me in! I actually lately have a big trouble making maps cause i dont know what and how to build lmao, but given what i should build and with pre existing base i would def come up with some good looks for some first maps, casue i suck with bigger maps

[@GermanPeter]

@@aurorafox1283 If someone starts a project like that on Doomworld, I might join :D

[@majamystic256]

I would like to join if that's ever a thing

[@Kazuo1G]

Dang it, now you got the machinery in my head running. XD

[@Kewertate]

Map07 is a starport for the ships you use to evacuate the surviving humans. The game says this and if you use your imagination you can think of the gore switch as a former landing station for ships and cargo.

[@GermanPeter]

Yeah, I can see that! And again, VERY small compared to how big it should really be :D

[@Kewertate]

@GermanPeter yeah it is pretty tiny considering what it is. Maybe those walls aren't even walls, though. They could just as well be boarding made by the humans in a last-ditch effort to escape the hordes of demons. The gore switch also resembles a fountain or shrine of sorts, which does fit with hells religious themes.

[@flamsey]

This is reiterated by Doom 2's manual, which isn't exactly canon since it acts the doomguy in Doom 2 isn't the same one as Doom 1 but whatever. DOOM 2: HELL ON EARTH ------------------------------- THE STORY CONTINUES...DOOM II: Hell on Earth Back at last. After days of hard fighting in space, you've returned home on well-earned leave. You're one of Earth's crack soldiers, hard-bitten, tough, and heavily-armed. When the alien invasion struck Mars, you were the first on the scene. By killing, killing, and killing, you won. You stopped the invasion, saved Mars base, and became a war hero. What they don't talk about so much is that you were the only survivor. But that's all behind you now. You've quit the military, and are heading home. Your drop pod lands with a crunch. You open 'er up and look out. Damn! The city ahead is on fire. What the devil is going on? You stagger forward, clutching at your sidearm. Packs of refugees are fleeing the flaming metropolis. A band of them shriek in terror. You squint. What's that? Someone is attacking the refugees. You rush up and blast away, killing the troublemaker. It looks like a human but something's wrong. His mouth is filled with half-chewed flesh, and he's all messed up, like a zombie from a bad horror movie. Hell, not again! You can feel it. It's all starting again, just like on Mars. First, people are taken over, turned into cannibal Things. Then the real horror starts, the deformed monstrosities from Outside. But now it's on Earth! It turns out that the invaders are all over. Monsters range from Tokyo to Timbuktu, from Stockholm to Scranton. Billions are dead. Some people have been transformed into flesh-eating mutants, but a few, a very few, are still alive and fully human. The wise men of humanity have evolved a plan to save what's left of the human race. They have built enormous ships to carry the remaining people into space, safely away from the ruined world. Unfortunately, Earth's only ground spaceport has just been taken over by the demons. They've instituted a sort of force field -- a flame barrier -- over the port; no ships can land or take off. You gotta go back into action. The pathetic remnants of Earth's soldiers are making an assault on the invaders at the spaceport. If you win, you might be able to turn off the barrier, so that the ships can leave, and Homo sapiens may not go extinct just yet. If you lose, that's it. Humanity is history. You and your comrades make their attack. Soon, brave men drop like flies. You lose track of your friends, though sometimes you can hear them scream when they die, and the sounds of combat echo from deep within the starbase. Something hisses with rage from the steel tunnels ahead. They know you're here. They have no pity, no mercy, take no quarter, and crave none. They're the perfect enemy, in a way. No one's left but you. You...and Them.

[@Crackers0106]

​@@Kewertate ik they weren't a thing at the time but I always imagined that switch was meant to be a gore nest from doom 2016/Eternal

[@BigMacDavis]

This is the best Doom II lore video I've ever seen. Sure, it's your imagination most of the time interpreting these things, but it's filled with logic and reason. Totally changes the way I look at Doom II. Very well done, man.

[@GermanPeter]

Oh snap, thanks BigMacDavis! Means a lot coming from you :)

[@zeeveestudios]

Agreed, definitely been my headcanon since I saw it

[@KernelLeak]

17:45 "House of Leaves"... "Creepy"... "My House"... I see what you did there... :D

[@AstorEzequiel]

You can CLEARLY hear his smile when he says "My House" hahaha!

[@xandergonzo4853]

That part caught me off guard, it was like he my recited my sleeping agent code lol

[@shingshongshamalama]

@@xandergonzo4853 That mod is going to cause permanent trauma in the doom community isn't it.

[@DavidXNewton]

@@shingshongshamalamaIt already has to me D:

[@creeperx3sssboom347]

That physically hurt me

[@MartianBuddy]

Imagination gap is a thing I kinda miss in games. Sometimes it can be horrific

[@vogonp4287]

Sometimes imagination is more unsettling than realistic graphics.

[@NoName-md6fd]

It's still there, we always have imagination. It's just that a part imagination processing from the player got transfered to graphics processing. An intelligent game designer would use the graphical off load from imagination to better use the player's imagination somewhere else.

[@chummy_lectern]

The crusher in The Crusher could just be a garbage masher in the detention level Edit: The flashing lights could be due to safety concerns with prisoners "accidentally" getting crushed, so they installed flashing lights to avoid responsibility, like, "hey, if you're flashing, move out of the way," or something. Edit 2: I also think that the Courtyard is some sort of human fort that was turned into a museum that was then assimilated by Hell. With the starting room being some sort of gift shop with a bathroom in the exit and the Citadel being an extension of the fort (technically the opposite) but not being adapted for a museum. The people and security retreated to the Citadel for safety, but got overwhelmed by the demonic hordes.

[@GermanPeter]

The Courtyard definitely feels like something I've visited in real life once, it's so strange. I can absolutely see the museum theory, to be honest.

[@AmyStrikesBack]

The custom decors to make the point more clear are adorable and a Lot of the mind cannon is Really clever and creative, i can see a version that leans on It like extermination day or Doom 2 re-built

[@GermanPeter]

I'd really love a mod that just mildly modifies the original maps instead of coming up with its own designs. The "Hell on Earth starterpack" for Brutal Doom absolutely burned me. It looks fantastic, but plays terribly. Form over function in almost every way.

[@AmyStrikesBack]

@@GermanPeter extermination day is basically a remake of hell on earth that looks and plays a Lot better, not recomended to play with vanilla weapons tho. I highly recomend E1 remaster and Doom 2 re-built, this mods (all tho just demos) basicaly redesign the levels to be more detailed while keeping the original flow, great for testing New gameplay mods

[@Haispawner]

​@@GermanPeter Maps of Chaos and also Ultimate Doom 2 are something you should play.

[@mariotime7821]

​@@GermanPeterI'd recommend looking at "HontE Remastered", a (weirdly named) Russian mod that does a lot of what you're describing. It uses ZDoom/UDMF features to give the original geometry an environmental storytelling-rich makeover. Heck, Map33 (Betray) from the XBox Doom 3 version is even there.

[@mariotime7821]

​@@GermanPeterYou should definitely check out "HontE Remastered", a Russian mod that gives the original geometry a complete makeover with tons of ZDoom/UDMF features and a lot of environmental storytelling. Everything still looks surreal as hell, but has a strengthened sense of "placeness", if you get what I mean. (Also, KZbin kept removing past iterations of this comment, for some reason. Sorry if there's duplicates for whatever reason.)

[@WEndro333]

21:07 My theory about the arrow is that it was indeed drawn by other people to attract other survivors before the city got overrun. Perhaps the brick house/storage used to serve as some sort of safehouse for people in the city when the invasion began.

[@flamsey]

The rubble would explain why the buildings are so short. There is much debris and rubble that it is covering the rest of the buldings and streets. We can only see skyscrapers popping out

[@stolyartoad8640]

Perhaps the "O of Death" is a destroyed reactor? Could explain it being a 'heart of the starbase'

[@ItsBofu]

I love videos like this that use some imagination! It's fun to theorize about what these abstract but vaguely building-shaped objects actually represent. Considering the limitations of the tools that the team was using at the time (no texture auto align, no visual mode, having to recompile nodes every time a map was altered, etc) as well as the tight deadlines, I feel like they did a decent enough job. I've made vanilla-compatible maps that look way more like a city than anything in Doom 2 without custom art, but it took me a month in Ultimate Doom Builder, and these guys were making 32 maps using much less advanced tools in the span of just a few months.

[@Scypek]

At some point, I've considered making a realistic looking MAP09 remake with a patio in the middle called Petersen's Institute of Technology. There are some freaky-looking college campuses in the world, I've visited a couple that don't seem to follow euclidean geometry.

[@maewschannel]

I once heard a take on the Wolfenstein maps that go like this: The entire castle is some sort of purgatory made for the pee babies where they get tortured not by demons but the Blazkowics family, meaning that those levels aren´t exactly on earth and they´re just an other layer on hell.

[@JeffreyPiatt]

the map 15 End of Level Message (Secret Exit) mentions this: " Congratulations, you've found the secret level! Looks like it's been built by humans, rather than demons. You wonder who the inmates of this corner of Hell will be. " turns out it's full of SS and it's a copy of Castle Wallenstein. time to solve your ancestors nightmares.

[@lyokianhitchhiker]

So both the demons & the pee babies are being tortured there?

[@princessmaly]

It's explicit that the castle is from hell, but given how hell is coming out onto Earth it's not totally clear what dimension the player is in at the moment, although all things considered it doesn't really matter because you go back to Earth either way after leaving the castle. Also, it's not purgatory. Purgatory is for repentant souls suffering temporary torment before going to heaven. These are nazis. They are in hell. But I love the idea that their torment is to get fragged by Blazkowicses for all eternity xD

[@ivy_magnapinna]

Your interpretation of The Abandoned Mines is really interesting and reminds me a lot of ULTRAKILL's Prelude levels, which take place in an abandoned industrial facility implied to have been made explicitly for excavating hell and processing the dug-up raw material, but became overtaken by hellish creatures and overflown with blood and gore Also kinda funny that you bring up the motif of hell not being able to make anything of its own but preferring to take and distort things in the human world since that's also a thing in ULTRAKILL, where you've got layers of hell full of earthly monuments and demons that are big amalgamations of stone statues of humans filled with flesh

[@Cri_Jackal]

A lot of the abstraction of these locations can also come down to demonic terraformig corrupting the environment, making it less clear what these places are/were. A lot of the hell levels in the Nu Doom games follow the same sort of rule, especially in Doom 2016.

[@lancebaylis3169]

Gotcha! always gave me the feeling of jumping across the rooftops of builldings or structures. Like, the world has gradually filled with blood, and your 'last stand' on Earth is on the highest possible ground you can find.

[@GermanPeter]

God, that's even more horrifying than all the other buildings having been leveled. Imagine having to jump around on the rooftops of skyscrapers just to get around because the rest of the city is FILLED WITH BLOOD.

[@wizard_4194]

What if Dead Simple is actually the rooftop of Tricks and Traps? And when you exit the level the floor caves in and you fall into the next level as sugested by the hole in the ceilling. I'd argue that Tricks and Traps was an ordinary warehouse with an aircraft pad ontop of it (likely dead simple) which got corrupted by hells power.

[@ewanb1086]

I like this idea

[@limpfall13]

Ngl iv never thought of some of the moving platforms and doors and “elevators” as rubble breaking either under you or you tearing thru it but honestly I like that interpretation rather than just some random floor peice moving down or a random secret door it’s you breaking into places to find secreted and progressing. Idk I like that interpretation cause the idea of doom guy tearing down walls to find secret goods sounds fun

[@dalivincibey8817]

This is so fun. It feels like you're looking into a Tom Hall's Doom 2.

[@Shrek_es_mi_pastor]

10:37 The waste treatment facility theory explains its proximity to the Waste Tunnels

[@GermanPeter]

That was my initial thought, too! But like the Factory, there's little waste actually being treated, except perhaps for the Revenant room and the final chamber.

[@somekinnn]

Random thought I had: With humans going to hell and so, perhaps the old-style structures built in the relatively older parts of hell are simply from humans from an older period who were brought over, using their old architectural styles and skills in hell. In a sense, maybe hell is having a 'technological revolution' by the time DOOM takes place thanks to finally, enough people from the modern era dying to bring over their own knowledge of technology, perhaps being what created the technology for the invasion in the first place.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

I like that idea. It's not exactly implausible for human-born demons to infight, break off and say "sod this, I'm doing things my way".

[@CoracaoAcidental98]

Actually, that would make total sense considering the differences in bestiary from Doom 1 to 2. In Doom 1 all of the bestiary is comprised of old soldiers from hell, see how all of them (that are not zombies) are "natural", imps, pinkies, cacodemons, lost souls, they all seem to be normal creatures, fighting with what they are born with, teeth, muscle, or powers of shooting energy from their hands or mouth, the only monsters that break this mold are the two bosses, probably because they are the first to have human technology used to enhance their powers, and is because of that they are even bosses, hell is very confident in them that they are mostly seen without much reinforcement when waiting to battle Doomguy. But in Doom 2 we see fodder demons using human technology, probably because is the only way to make them useful in the armies of hell, mancubi without the cannons are too slow and big to do anything, revenants are too weak and disarmed, arachnos too much stationary, but because of human technology these creatures are now equal if not more powerfull to the traditional elite like Barons, Pinkies and Cacos. And there's the Icon of Sin that is the ultimate embodiment of this philosophy of taking from the humans, a demon that has completely made his body into a wall of human technology mixed with flesh, hoping to make him more powerful, and while Romeros head is just a joke maybe it could symbolize the envy the demons have over humans, the Icon, one of the most powerful creatures of hell, trying to look and speak like a human within himself, trying to mimic the thing that demons don't have and rely solely on humans to give them, life, and all the perks that comes with it like ingenuity, determination, passion and hope. Maybe the demons don't hate humans, but want desperately to feel what we feel, but they are never going to, so they steal what they can from us.

[@unusualoranges]

i'm not sure what this kind of content is called. it reminds me of stuff i think about before i fall asleep. keep it up

[@DinnerForkTongue]

I call it theorycrafting, even if it may be incorrect.

[@aeixo2533]

It's called a youtube video. 🙂

[@KleerAsDay]

9:31 The Crusher™ reminds me of one of the execution methods used in the Salem witch trials. The one I'm thinking of has you laying down with a board on you, then they add the stones to press down on you until death.

[@TheFunniBaconMan]

"MORE WEIGHT!" - Giles "Balls of Steel" Corey.

[@illuminatidad]

Waste tunnels is a defunct prison, with guard towers and prison cell blocks, hence the glowing arrows in the basement area

[@GermanPeter]

Ohh that's also possible!

[@RadiationHazardYT]

I grew up playing Doom 2 back in 2000. It was (and still is) one of my all-time favorite games. But I was sad to see years later that the majority of the fans didn't like Doom 2's maps but preferred Doom's. That's a discussion for another day though but in recent years, I did start to see the faults in Doom 2's maps, especially the middle ones taking place in the "City". Watching this video, it felt like an eye-opening moment because what you're saying definitely makes sense. Thanks to this video, I can give the levels are more specific description rather than saying "the map with that thing and that other thing". Also, those illustrations/interpretation still images were neat. Great video!

[@AlphaEnt2]

Everyone makes fun of the arrow until they realize other games like portal also does the same with arrows on walls, because playtesters didn't knew how to continue through the level.

[@thekingslayer2178]

I think the Doom 2 arrow gets clowned on because there’s no in-world explanation for it. A better example of an arrow in a Doom game is in Map 12 of Doom 64, where it seems like it’s just a rock, but on the auto map you can see that it’s actually a crude arrow pointing to a secret.

[@AlphaEnt2]

There's also the arrow made by armor shard on Doom's e1m6, that leads to a secret with an automap. I think there's also an arrow on Slough of despair? e3m2 (but that arrow is only viewable through automap, as they used the sector as a wall, instead of being walkable) Either way I like peter's idea of being rocks put in there by survivors. I would had taken a more subtle approach, like a texturelump, where the arrow is drawn or grafitted on top the wall, or straight up redesign the layout, so the entrance is in front of the wall, and not on the side, but once again, they didn't had doom builder like we had to autoalign textures and trial/error things on the fly. @@thekingslayer2178

[@michanowak7060]

Also... You know... Actual arrows on the roads in the real world to show which lane go where.

[@pegasusactua2985]

Difference is with Portal the arrows make sense because duh you are in test chambers in universe and that makes perfect sense in the setting. While Doom 2 having a giant arrow makes zero sense.

[@vazzeg]

Man, your explanations are so good! I especially like the one about Dead Simple. I always thought the walls coming down after defeating the Mancubi is just a game gimmick to reveal another challenge, but your explanation of the place crumbling because of the battle is so much better. It could also be that the Arachnotrons are reinforcements that break through the walls, but yeah, I never thought of these maps in this realist kinda way. Amazing video.

[@gabrieldantas1179]

Love putting this video on the background, especially when i’m working out, it’s great for that because of all the STRETCHING YOU DO!!!! Grate video btw

[@bobsaturday5840]

My ideas about downtown I don't understand why people hate arrow so much, because arrows and map plans used in real life to show exits. That could be another sense of arrow: showing location of evacuation center, and it's not just little sign on wall so people can actually see it Area you get "climbed" to from there could be vent system, and that building with just rocket launcher on pad and pinky trap could be meeting room, with pad being table

[@spase667]

I LOVE this concept! This is basically what I did as a kid to try and contextualize the maps and construct a large interconnected journey out of them. Great work, you’ve done what my 8 year old self could never do!

[@DeadlyParson]

"Does it even want to live?" The death sound sounds like a sigh of relief than a scream Perhaps Romero wants to rest but his minions dont understand or care of his wishes And want him to create more demons. Maybe the screws are to restrain him while the pipes through his head are to pump acid to melt his skull, or to drain him of his essence, maybe to secure the future after final doom the demon scientists breed a new batch of demons and experiment to fuse Romeros power into them, perhaps the experiments ended with all dying bc they could not control or handle it, all but 2... Which then leads to Doom64

[@shinyagumon7015]

I really like your interpretations and wish there was some kind of fan game or Mod showcasing what these Maps are "Actually" supposed to look like. I especially liked the idea of Doom Guy using the subway to move around at first. Likewise, I also liked your interpretation of the secret Wolfenstein levels, with the heart on a pillar replacing a table in the original symbolizing how the Nazis trapped here have given up all pretenses of morality and are now fully embracing their monstrous ideology by torturing and killing humans and demons alike for their own twisted amusement.

[@Scypek]

There's definitely potential in combining Wolf3D and Doom themes in a more "serious" way. The analysis reminds me of my Doomworld Mega Project 2018 MAP12 submission, which repurposes a lot of Doom's skull-centric props as nazi decor and features some cannibalism-adjacent themes as well.

[@GermanPeter]

It'd definitely be awesome if the modern Doom games brought the Pee Babies back, but as zombies. Not as actual living corpses, but as creatures that are still very much human, but have completely lost their minds. That's how I interpret them in Doom at least. They've been stuck in hell for thousands of years, it's no wonder they eventually became insane.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

If you want a very interesting look into what Hell on Earth may have been like, check out Abscission. Snaxalotl played around a lot with concepts similar to those Peter mentioned.

[@RelKier_is_jdude]

This is a best toughs flight I ever listened. Your imagination is great, beyound the measuring, and the ending, was unspeakable. Thanks you for that video

[@thesmilingman7576]

43:54 Davroth really screwed up the place when the Maykr sealed him in Jekkad

[@eljaminlatour6633]

If I were to add lore about John Romero's head in the game, I would add that he was some sort of former military commander, but despite his best efforts he lost his life to the demons, and due to his intelligence, they want to use it for evil, the reason why Romero wanted to be killed, is so that not just the Doom Slayer to get him out of his misery, but to destroy the heart of all evil, and save mankind for good, which might be difficult because he's not just any marine, but rather a friend.

[@Curlyheart]

So basically a self-insert

[@rhapsody_iv]

Maybe the easter eggs of doom 2016 where we go to classic levels are hallucinations of the Doomsalyer remembering everything he suffered when he was just the Doomguy

[@joeilya]

I've interpreted the large stretches of gray bricks that surround MAP15 as barricades created by humans to protect from the invasion, but the plan failed because the demons came crashing down from the sky by using that big wooden structure, which created a rift across the barricade zone, which split the humans into two groups and made it easier to capture. The big water area would be the water supply, using my theory.

[@RaposaCadela]

Wow I actually REALLY like your take on these. It'd be very cool to see your interpretations telegraphed more clearly in the game, as a mod

[@enocescalona]

i heard the theory that'd the demons somehow make reality look so abstract-building wise, not Just in Tricks and Traps, but ALL Earth-based maps. But seems to be a rare theory, as i never heard others say it. I wonder how valid it would considered. Also, bro i fucking love your interpretation of the demons themselves. They keep their "queen bee" alive just to survive. It is analogous to the Imperium of Man and their Emperor. A deity kept at bay from the grim reaper for a while longer. they are so obsessed with Earth because they want their resources and "space". This is good stuff!

[@RandomNoNamePT]

Man, this makes me wonder what the ID software team could've done if they had modern tools and sourceports back in the 90's.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

You could always ask Romero. He's busy, but very chill and approachable. As long as you don't thank him for Doom 3. 😂

[@ThrackerZ0d]

the idea of some buildings and some part of the maps being actually alive and self aware is genuinely terrifying, would love to see this being used in some mod...

[@alexeipino3994]

Around last year I attempted to remake every Doom II map until MAP10, to me MAP03 was a flooded boarding station for spaceships (I even added a crashed spacecraft and storage-moving thing in that big area with the blue card) and I always though that MAP09 was a residencial part of the UAC base that had been airstriked to oblivion

[@GermanPeter]

I hadn't even considered airstrikes! That makes sense, because Earth would try the most desperate of measures to get rid of the invading demons.

[@fluffypinkpandas]

"MY resolution? AIRSTRIKES!"

[@amaruqlonewolf3350]

I've always considered the Icon of Sin to be a steampunk, or rather more closely a Giger-esque take on Dante's Inferno with a bit of Lovecraft thrown into the mix. In Dante's Inferno, Satan is frozen in time since the beginning of the time for committing the greatest sin in form of the treachery against the God itself. You'll notice that you haven't seen any demons with mechanical attachments before the Cyberdemon's introduction in Episode 2's end. They're very well stealing the man-made advancements in technology from the lost Deimos base, and have used it to convert the once condemned arch-angel into a demon spitting machine, cutting open his forehead to forcefully make him summon the armies of hell, keeping him alive on the mechanical enhancements that they've hooked him up on. While Doom guy was in hell during Episode 3, the demons used the technology that they've enhanced the Icon of Sin paired with the teleportation tech from the Deimos base to slingshot an invasion on Earth. Which'll make sense why's he named the "Icon of Sin". He committed treachery against God, he's the embodiment of sin itself.

[@pinfox4117]

I always thought the citadel was a representation of doomguy's home, where the demons have demolished and built their own castle into the entrance of hell over it. A last ditch effort to break doomguy's mind and make him give up since the last thing he could call his own is gone. But if the song Shawn's got the shotgun says anything, this was the last staw they broke. The last nerve they broke in this single marine they underestimated. Doomguy is P I S S E D.

[@frogge3978]

17:50 house of leaves ref

[@SavorySoySauce]

Your theory that doomguy was traveling by train makes sense because theres wip versions of the intermission screen that have tram lines connecting the levels

[@GermanPeter]

Well, that's from Doom 1 and a holdover from when levels were meant to be connected by tram systems. But I get ya!

[@WestfilmsCo]

A remake of doom 2 in the style of hl2 where all the maps connect, like you did here would be so cool

[@GermanPeter]

That's a thing, I just forgot what the WAD I mean is called. There's this, however: www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/133231-doom-2-in-a-continuous-map/

[@WestfilmsCo]

@@GermanPeter That’s so cool!

[@hezekiah8765]

On The Catacombs i always thought the secret at the start was the remains of another dead marine. Maybe he got caught in some sort of spike trap, thats what i always saw the things in the ceiling as, with his armor and (soul?) being left

[@GermanPeter]

That's so clever! I always wondered what those rods could mean! And the Spectre ate up his body, leaving only his armor and soul behind!

[@lancebaylis3169]

Take away the water, and I always thought Underhalls felt like a subway system anyway. My head canon is that it's simply a flooded one. Imagine a slightly altered set of maps that plays up the 'travelling via train' aspect 🤔

[@db7213]

I'd definitely like to see a similar analysis of Doom 1 (which is my favorite in the series). But Tom Hall's Doom Bible already explains a lot of it.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

Speaking of Tom Hall and the Doom Bible, it's interesting how closely Doom 3 sticks to most of its writings and Tom's vision.

[@TheBellTolls]

Fascinating explanation for Icon of Sin. I know the text screen after says that it's indeed an actual demon that you "pump rockets into his exposed brain," but the idea that it's a creature long dead - or being kept on some kind of hellish life support - is a super interesting way to look at it. Gives some interesting thoughts into what the demons are trying to do, and why. Also, the blue room in The Chasm actually representing a pool? I don't think I'll ever think of that room the same way again! Love the idea that it's part of a nuclear reactor.

[@christopherpalmerbrown1692]

I was expecting your theories in the video to be interesting, and they are; I wasn't expecting to find them moving at the end. The implied mythos and tragic story you concoct for Hell is haunting, poetic, and a good deal more effective as series "lore" than whatever the new games are doing. :) Since Doom II's development was so rushed, who's to say how much intentionality there really was in the design choices, but in terms of the final result, I'll definitely be keeping your takes here in mind on future playthroughs. Well done!

[@DragonFire64]

I wouldn't mind watching a full series on your Interpretations of the other original Classic Doom WADs Doom 1, TNT, Plutonia and even 64! I would love to see how you interpret 64's Journey. Also additional Episodes made in more modern times like No Rest for The Living, both Sigil episodes and Legacy of Rust could also be interesting

[@GermanPeter]

64 is too obvious with what the levels represent, so I don't really feel like it. I think I'd just go "Oh and this is the demon's library" and "Oh and this is a shrine where the demons keep this demon key" and so on. Doom 1 is on the table, though.

[@ShadesMan]

aka "trying to make sense of Sandy Peterson's antics!" lol jk he made Erebus, one of my favs... in Doom ONE. 😅 Hmmm map01 a train station? Funny enough the Doom novels reinterpreted "Gotchta" as similar, with Cybie and Spidey battling it out atop flatbed traincars.

[@stylesrj]

You know, that giant arrow in Downtown might not be for Doomguy. Imagine if you're the military trying to evacuate people from the downtown area and you need to make sure they're going in the right direction? You could paint a huge arrow so that no one would miss it. The route that Doomguy takes could have been an evacuation route that collapsed in shortly after his arrival and the people and military had either been killed or evacuated. And people make fun of that arrow... that arrow probably saved lives!

[@Pixiestyx71]

The more i look at how open Doom 2 is, the more i realize where Dark Ages gets it's open level design from

[@SpringDavid]

Honestly if you take Romero's head seriously, I think that's supposed to be some sort of obsession the devil (or whoever icon of sin is supposed to be) has with God, wanting to be or become him however without the actual power (hence, the lack of a body)

[@Jenkinsmum]

It would've been nice if there were fan-made map screens for chapters 1 to 4 of Doom II to go with the traditional Doom trilogy map screens. One for the Star Base, one for the Haunted Heart, one for the City and one for Hell.

[@princessmaly]

There are! There's also an intermission map for Thy Flesh Consumed as well. Go look them up, they're great! Your mileage may vary on how well they fit into the art style of the original intermission maps, though.

[@marcosandrey5059]

I never thought about romero being one of the prime evils or something but its a genius way to fit that easter egg in the lore

[@silentzorah]

I like to imagine the city levels are located in Mesquite, TX.

[@Roxor128]

And just a couple of years of technological development and we no longer had to hint at what places were. Going from Doom's requirements of a 386 with 4MB of memory to a 486 with 8MB for Duke3D, and level designers could be explicit about the places they were making, rather than merely hinting what they intended, even though the Doom and BUILD engines use fairly similar technology. You could arguably say that ID kept the hinting alive when they went to full 3D with Quake, as well, as if they still thought the engine was too limited for explicit details, and would have to wait for the next one before they could make the move.

[@saltypotato42]

Finally I can understand what these maps are. Nice video.

[@fridaykitty]

reading every map as if Tom Hall made them all!! his maps always felt the most like actual real places :P

[@wakuwalt7]

When i replayed long ago Doom 2 for the Doomworld megawad club event, my impression for the first 6 maps are more of a giant prison structure more than a train hub station as you mentioned for the first 3 maps, keeping you with the "prison"/imprisonment feel in a more psychological way than a real One during all the game, overall feels you running out from a real prison to a more psychological one, with cages almost everywhere and founding yourself in some levels without any visible way shown where you must come out, also train wagon of sorts are possibile, just look at Spawning Vats Shawn corridors can be taken as some sort of train

[@HydraKittten]

It feels like like alot of these interpretations have alot going for them, like alot of it was intended to be seen like this

[@spiderplant]

I love when you say "pee babies"

[@hughjanes4883]

I tried to make a mod that took doom 2's levels and remade them to make them make more connected like you were talking about, my mapping skills wernt up to snuff so i quit lol. Ive made a few custom enemies so ill probabally try doing it again with my custom enemies. I even thought that entryway was a train station, what a coincidence! if i were to redesign it fully i would make the maps more colorful, i personally love the more saturated and bright look of doom 2016 and eternal and id love to see doom 2 if it was just as bright.

[@rukifellth2]

Then you should look up Honte, or Hell on the Earth. It is probably the most impressive D2 remake wad. Updating the looks of every level, making them more believable, utilise what can be done with Doom nowdays, making the Icon more fun... Aaand all of this without altering layout or scale of the og levels, they dont even use any new textures. It's all og textures, and yet it feels so fresh and better looking. It also has TONS of Doom cute.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

​@@rukifellth2So more Going Down than Hell on Earth?

[@lethalbroccoli01]

I feel like i heard somewhere that map01-08 or 09 in its entirety IS the starport, kind of like an episode; and that the last level is simply you opening the starport up and allowing ships to leave. I could be wrong though ofc but it would be cool.

[@mattmedrala1947]

What a wonderfully creative exercise! It almost makes me wish we got a remake where this interpretation of levels was rendered using the Doom Eternal engine, seeing as that game only uses part of Doom 2's plot before mashing in a bunch of other new elements. I find it interesting that you interpret the 'demons' as perhaps a literal underground race, akin to the Locusts from Gears of Wars - I myself always saw it more as a sign that the Earth was getting consumed and assimilated from inside into the Hell dimension. I do also think that, while the demons probably plundered and stole a lot from humanity, some of the 'primitive' structures might in fact have been built by them, at least by the more intelligent/humanoid entities such as the Arch-Viles - the Barons and Hellknights also seem to imply a possible aristocratic hierarchy, where the larger and crueler are entitled to dominate and torment lower beings (as indicated by infighting.) It's cool to consider the idea that, just as much as they may embody pure evil, the demons themselves live a miserable existence. The interpretation of The Living End as a 'trip down memory lane' can be taken more literally as a form of mental manipulation - perhaps Doomguy's memories are being turned into physical reality in an attempt to disorient and slow him. If the game were more dramatically inclined, I could see Hell even recreating traumatic memories and perhaps conjuring demons in the forms of loved ones in order to torment and demoralize him. Lastly, you can see the Icon of Sin as perhaps the source of all the fleshy and bony growths permeating the maps - it is described in the end text as an entity spanning many miles, which makes me think its true form and scale might resemble something like the Brethren Moons. I never liked how Doom Eternal went for the most uninspired interpretation of the Icon of Sin as just a big robot humanoid with a goat head, as I consider it to be something much more eldritch and alien.

[@GermanPeter]

Someone did point out that the Icon of Sin's limbs might be what we see in the Spirit World, so I can totally see that!

[@Cats-TM]

41:11 Glad the hell devision of OSHA is still doing their job, would be preferable if the exit signs were in front of the door but ya' know, that is not too important…

[@GermanPeter]

That's right, they're EVIL about it.

[@plumdowner1941]

Theory: The wolfenstein levels are Doomguy's own personal hell, getting exposed to the same crybabies his ancestor BJ had to fight in the war. Even coming face to face with the idea of killing his great grandfather, as Peter himself said, hell is making a mockery of Doomguy's family lineage. Doomguy is able to endure the twisted psychological test, however, and escapes back onto earth.

[@Mr.Doggo83]

Thank you. If I ever make a series of Doom, I'll keep this in mind.

[@georgeoldsterd8994]

Well, it's Hell on Earth, so most maps are real locations on Earth, albeit destroyed or distorted due to Hell's invasion. The incoherence is technically explained by the fact that half of the maps were made by Sandy Peterson, and the other half, by everyone else, so it's a hodgepodge, kinda like Quake's E1. Could the Waste Tunnels be a sewage treatment plant, though? That would explain all the windows and large, seemingly useless empty pits.

[@xenomorphic7887]

Love this idea! Recently re-played Doom II and found myself doing a similar thing, having a head-canon for the purpose of every map, it honestly makes the game even more fun and interesting than it already is!

[@sweetpepino1907]

28:40 My first thought is that this is a fountain of some sort, and the soul sphere represents water visually and thematically, as maybe the only chance Doomguy has for a refreshing drink of water.

[@GermanPeter]

Hah! That's so cute, I love that idea.

[@eightcoins4401]

I like the idea of lifts actually being floor breaking or climbing

[@Doom_Rooster]

I get the feeling that the zone with water on the ceiling in Chasm is not an underwater room but instead the water on the ceiling is there to represent those reflections that sometimes water produces, similar to a sewer in TNT (can't remember on which map) that has a mud texture on the tunnel ceiling while there is a water texture on the floor.

[@GermanPeter]

Ohhh, that's also possible! I still prefer my swimming theory because of the way you get around in the room.

[@GXStream]

Great video, full of solid observations and thoughtful ideas. I like that you're precise with your language and consistently present the interpretations as yours and not in any way decisive or "correct".

[@emptysurname]

17:50 - I always read that texture as some kind of stucco, but that's an interesting idea.

[@AnthonyCurley]

I always though Map 2 looked like a train tunnel, this is fascinating, thank you.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

Even if I don't agree with a lot of what you described (in my view Hell can and does replicate human creation as much as it warps and corrupts it, in a fashion incomprehensible to us and maybe even itself), that's some prime time lore cooking you got going, Peter. Would you be willing to also make these analysis for TNT? Now _that_ wad has a lot of environmental storytelling that you can extrapolate upon. And on a very selfish note, I'd love to see how your vision would match, or mismatch, the unofficial sequel to TNT and imho the most interesting play-around with human and hell technologies - *TNT Revilution.*

[@GermanPeter]

I couldn't even bear playing TNT (or Plutonia, I forgot which one) normally, so I dunno. It's just not well designed in my opinion.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

@@GermanPeter Fair enough. Different folks, different strokes. Thanks for entertaining my post regardless of our differing opinions 😄

[@thatguyknownaswill8180]

Your explanations make a lot of sense, and I love how you edit the levels to look like what you are describing, but the whole time I couldn’t shake the feeling that this would look a whole lot nicer and believable in Duke Nukem 3D

[@resle]

glory, eternal glory to Close Captioning: my love for this content is 10/10, but god do those over the top recitation and cadence get on my nerves in a few seconds...

[@GermanPeter]

Damn dude you're not gonna last a SECOND in my other videos then lol

[@meischoice]

Why does it feel like I'm watching a Doom version of a Dark Souls Lore Video? 🤣🤣

[@aanproduction1516]

Wow, I had the same idea of a video for a future, and I appreciate that you had the same idea about toxic waste that I had -- it's a fuel for the starships. The round area in Pit where BFG is could be a nuclear power plant, working on that energy, or a pump with a filter of some sort (after all, even Doom 1 gave us ''Toxic Refinery'' as if the fuel is produced by refining the toxic waste.). Though I have a slightly different opinion on Icon of Sin. Notice that in Doom 1 demons basically had no goal. They just invade the bases after humans invade their home and experimented on them (Cyberdemon, Barons in chambers in E1M8, Imp Cage in E1M9, etc.). They weren't even teamed up, seeing how Cyberdemon had a completely different plans and basically took over the Deimos, considering that he has not so good relationship with barons, which are Noble Family of Hell (their faces are the only demon faces being portrait, other being their God - Icon, and a prophet - Arch-vile.) Demons have their own conflicts, but when the smartest of them, Mastermind, realizes the power of human technology (he is the only one who is smart enough to use them for his own good) and decided to use it to bring their ancient god back to the life. This is why demons are working together, they have their own goal now. They even used technology to create new demons themselves (Mancubus, Arachnotron, Revenant). But the Icon is not technically dead. It just has no body. But it's still exist and basically is the hell itself. Notice, demons don't reproduce like we do, they all look the same, especially some that shouldn't, like Cyber and SpiderMama. Do you really think all Cyberdemons were like that before? Maybe the only Cyberdemon that was technically a Cyberdemon was the one on Deimos, that was augmented by humans. The rest of them looks like clones. If anything, other Cybers should've been normal Harbingers (yeah, I'm using the WolfRPG name, shut up, Tyrant sucks). Same with Masterminds: does they all have sleds? Something makes a new clones of them...something...Hell itself? But what is the only demon that can spa....Oohhhh... So, yeah, Sin (let's call it's that) is an entity, without a body, that is responsible for every twisted logic of hell. It sees opportunity in new augmented Harbinger, thus cloning it it a twisted map E3M9. It is a power, that tries to go back to a physical body...an ICON of itself. His head is probably the only thing that is left of his body, but he is still able to contribute to hell. He wants his body back, so he can be free and more powerful. He even brings a probably long dead prophets in face of arch-viles as a tool to rule and a gift to demons that help him recover his body with human technology (and a toxic fuel). It's even cooler when you take into consideration Final Doom: in TNT, after Icons destruction Hell Minions that is left decide to create a machine, that would've been able to replicate Sin's powers of creating new demons. In Plutonia, Icon returnes, now located at the gates of Hell, probably even more powerfull than before, able to create much more demons. Soooooo, yeah. Maybe I'm gonna make a video on this theory in the future, who knows

[@CRuduxypegg]

The infamous arrow in downtown leads to a collapsed parking lot tunnel. the lost souls hate parking and destroy the building when you arrive.

[@Vermilleno]

Interesting thing to note, Suburbs and Downtown (and some other levels) are probably taking place in Texas. I swear I've heard someone say that somewhere, I think it was civvie11, but I besides him I swear I've either heard or read somewhere that downtown in particular is meant to be set in Texas.

[@Burstroom]

something to help your theory about the icon of sin being really old is that the music was originally doom 1's title screen music

[@PyroTheRabbit]

Commander Keen is Doomguys dad BJ(wolfenstein) is doomguys great grandpa

[@GermanPeter]

Man, I'm so glad I'm making my next video

[@Capta1nAsh]

"Entryway is a trainstation" ok, you sold it to me. It's a train station

[@Capta1nAsh]

wait... the gantlet isn't a misspelling of gauntlet?

[@friedchickenUSA]

i really thought "gantlet" was a misspelling of "gauntlet", but your train theory really seems to hold some water -liz also, Dead Simple to me looks like an upper class ancient roman residence with an atrium in the center :)

[@PalindroneV2]

I love your interpretations of these maps. The only one I could really disagree with is Icon of Sin since the end text mentions its thrashing limbs falling across the landscape

[@GermanPeter]

I mean, that doesn't disprove anything, though. The head is still obviously mounted on a wall, and the limbs could just be out of frame below or behind it.

[@grashathemalo-furru1838]

i love your interpretation, makes a lot of sense and explains why certain thing are so weird in the game, i wish some dude that does mods see your interpretation and makes a remake of the maps following it, would not only make the scenarios good to see but also reenforce the lore that the franchise now has

[@pilot3605]

Shows why games like Duke Nukem took this genre by storm. Doom 2 is legendary but compare the city levels here with Duke, you can see why people were going crazy

[@AstorEzequiel]

This was an amazing point of view of the maps, it recontextualizes everything in a way I've never considered. I'll probably see and imagine things in your way the next time I play Doom 2 To be honest, with how creative and advanced Doom community mapping has gotten, it would be amazing to see a project inspired on this video!

[@DeadPixel1105]

Awesome video. Very interesting. I love your interpretations of the maps.

[@MartianBuddy]

The focus, I always thought the room thingy near spawn was like burger joint counter but reception makes more sense lol

[@GermanPeter]

A burger joint! That's hilarious, but I can see it :D In fact, I always interpreted it as a bank for some reason. It doesn't even work with the rest of the level, unless you consider the storage room as the vault.

[@MartianBuddy]

@@GermanPeter UAC base could have in house stores/services like that, could work. Could be security check point like doom 3. I should replay it with this new lenses

[@richardmatthews2598]

​@@GermanPeterI felt that those rooms are where bank tellers would be. There are even security barriers that can close in the event of a threat. At that point, they're just malfunctioning.

[@azordash_games]

Wow this is such a great video… in my head I only ever thought of Factory and Downtown as “city” maps but thanks to your overview I have now changed my mind! I’d love you to do something similar (a level breakdown) for Doom 64 - I know how much you love it 😆 but I think it had some really interesting levels.

[@GermanPeter]

I'd like to do it for Doom 1, but not Doom 64 :P I think it's pretty obvious what those levels represent, since they have far more detail. With Doom 1, it's a bit more vague. Not quite to the same extent as Doom 2, but still.