Getting An M95 Mannlicher In 8x50R Running 1: The Initial Plan...

[@leighrate]

Kid, Christmas, New Toy, No batteries.

[@b.griffin317]

"I have a rifle which I have no ammo for..." ""You know you're a gun nut when..."

[@ExF1Guy]

PPU makes .330 diameter 208 grain spitzer bullets for use in the 8x56r. Presumably they would work in the 8x50r, if the bore slugs out at the same diameter.

[@ExF1Guy]

Bloke on the Range That makes sense. This should be a fun project. I’ve got s couple 8x56rs, but have yet to pick up an 8x50r.

[@bushwhackedonvhs]

Bloke on the Range Curious to know, can you literally just shoot 8x56 from one in 8x50

[@ExF1Guy]

Mason Munts No. It won’t fit. It’s generally a bad idea to cram an oversized case into a smaller than spec chamber (think ruptured barrels and broken receivers). I doubt you’d even be able to force the bolt into battery, as the shoulder on the 8x56r is blown significantly further forward than that of the 8x50r. You might be able to get away with 8x50r in an 8x56r chamber, as a last resort.

[@bushwhackedonvhs]

ExF1Guy I was uncertain mostly because often, given measurements are not true.

[@LN997-i8x]

Be careful if you do any more single-loading without clips! Placing cartridges in the chamber and then bolting forward can break the extractor on these.

[@siestatime4638]

That is a graceful looking gat...

[@TwentythreePER]

You lucky person, those are my favorite rifles in the world. I've been looking all over for a long rifle M95, especially in the original cartridge. Looking forward to more.

[@caboyd1977]

Looking forward to this series. I've been on the hunt for an original M95 for several years now. Have a couple of the M95/30's in 8x56 but I WANT an original in 8x50. One day.

[@ddelaurant]

Been shooting my M95 in 8x50 for a couple decades. My brass is reformed from three donors: 8x56 Hun, 7.62x54 Rus and 45-70 US with some rim and base turning. The Russian brass works OK but is slightly undersized at the head. I use 8x50 Lebel dies to reform and neck resize. Feeding is highly dependent on OAL and slightly dependent on bullet shape -- I have best results with spitzers heavier than 200 grains. A prefer reduced charge of 4198 for 30-30 level ballistics and light recoil in my Stutzen.

[@maxtron100]

Very Nice, I own a Karabine in the Old 8x50R and my friend owns one in 8x56R the older caliber is softer the Spitzer from PPU really kicks bad ass. I own some surplus ammunition and self loaded too, works great! Reloaded from Nagant 7.62x54R. There is some information that you can directly shoot Nagant ammo (in imergency cases) and it works too, tried it! But No Precision! Location Vienna, Austria Steyr Fanns :-) Great Channel Greets

[@miketranfaglia3986]

Lee makes a .329 mold that's intended for the M95, and it only costs $20 here in the US. I cast these for my M95s in 8x56R and they shoot very nicely. They turn out around 218 gr with gas check, and mine drop at .331-2 depending on the alloy used. Definitely an option worth exploring.

[@miketranfaglia3986]

True enough, but these are gas checked and these Lee molds can easily be beagled out by several thousandths. I haven't had to do that for my M95s, but I have enlarged my Enfield bullets that way with great success. If you want them really big, then using .338 bullets and sizing down a little makes plenty of sense.

[@Gunnut357mag]

I have purchased multiple molds from accurate and they are top notch with botch craftsmanship, quality and customer service. I have a custom mold for my 1871 mauser that is actually a heeled design and another one that's a heeled design for 10.35 italian.

[@Gunnut357mag]

Congrats. That's what I did for the mauser mould. My carbine has a .455 groove diameter but the largest bullet it chambers inside brass is .449 which as you know if poor for accuracy. So after talking to them we found a good starter design and went from there. Now I have a 315gr heeled bullet that has a base of .446 and a driving band that drops out at .456 with my lead mix. Could not ask for a better mould. I will also agree on ch4d. I have a lot of products from them but it can be a wait to get things.

[@Oldf0x]

You sounds like you were on Horrible Histories at the beginning!

[@forgettingweapons3349]

I found one at a gun show year before last. Paid $130 for it. It's some kind of carbine, not sure what exact model. It needs work on the front sight and a new front barrel band/bayonet lug. I do have a set of dies for it. If yours slugs to .330 or so, Woodleigh makes bullets sized to .330. They are brutally expensive though.

[@eaglelord1780]

Please don't just place the brass in the chamber and close the bolt on it again. The extractors for the M95 are not designed to be able to 'lip over' the rim and need to either be fed from the Mannlicher Clip, or hand inserted under the extractor to prevent it from breaking. This is also why there are next to no M95 extractors on the market because so many people have broken them single feeding rifles when they couldn't source Mannlicher Clips.

[@eaglelord1780]

The Austrian-Hungarians didn't single feed by that point so there would be no need to 'lip over'. The bevel is likely there due to the way the chamber and barrel are shaped, as it is a massive extractor. I just know many people have broken extractors that exact way, and blamed it on the 'brittle' extractors when the reality is they were not feeding the rifle properly.

[@m2hmghb]

Lee does make custom molds as well. I am quite interested in seeing how it goes for you.

[@wagon9082]

Good video

[@argplutoniumman]

It's sad to say that there aren't any 8x50 mannlicher around. The 1895 mannlicher is such a beautiful rifle what made me not want to get one is the lack of available ammo. 8x56 is more common but also extremely limited, props to you for having a plan to compensate and try to make rounds

[@BlokeontheRange]

It's easy. I've just got to get around to filming it.....

[@Diebulfrog79]

make your ammo, a tip - wax cast the bullet chamber to check bore diameter. Good video.

[@cohenmj770]

Since I have one of these long infantry M95s in the original 8x50R I was very curious to find out how you managed reloading. I've been looking for the follow-up videos that you promised. I have shot about 50-60 rounds of the 1936 Bulgarian vintage ammo for this and i saved the brass. Converting it to boxer primers is relatively easy, since the original Berdan primers have a slightly smaller diameter than modern boxer primers. I drill through the old primer and anvil with a #49 (0.073") drill bit and then pry out the old primer with a sharpened nail set. I use a 3/16" end mill to rough out the primer pocket to a depth of 0.125" and then finish off the prep with a Lyman primer pocket reaming tool. I also use spent 7.62x54 Russian cases that I trim down and then run through a full-length sizing die. I don't bother to fire-form them first. My biggest challenge is sourcing bullets. I thought that the Lyman 323378 mould would be ideal for this gun since the cast bullet looks almost exactly like those from the original vintage ammo. But I'm having trouble getting the load correct, and some on a different website have suggested that the cast bullets will not obturate in the bore (from 0.323" to the slugged bore dimension of 0.329") so I will get leakage. I'm having trouble understanding how a 0.323" steel-jacketed bullet (military round) will obturate but a lead one won't. Do you have any updates on shooting this rifle?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Due to YT's inconsistent rules on reloading videos, there is content on it but not on YT. It should be on Playeur, if not it might be on Bitchute. The military bullet was open-base and doesn't need to obturate all the way, whereas lead does. Anyway, accuratemolds.com has a suitable bullet at .330-ish (you can specify), a custom M-type neck expander die (Night Owl I think) and a Lee 8mm Lebel factory crimp are the way to satisfaction .

[@cohenmj770]

Thanks for the info. I also noticed that PPU sells a 0.323 FMJ BT bullet in the 200 gr range. Since that has an open base, I'm wondering if that will also obturate appropriately. I typically use 40 - 45 gr. IMR-3031 for jacketed bullets in my 8x50R loads for the M95.@@BlokeontheRange

[@djsalose]

Film EVERYTHING!! =)

[@ironofithaka8357]

I am about to experiment with cast loads about 204 gr however I ran into the issue that all 8x50r dies are no loner made and you can’t find them in the US. You have to get then custom made for 200 dollars. I can’t wait to put some reduced rounds out of my 1888/90 once I find some dies.

[@ryengast7581]

I want more on this rifle pretty please XD

[@Strato50]

For what it's worth Accurate Molds make some very fine products. I've commissioned molds from them for my VERY undersized Vetterli (Slugs at .316-3.24..!!) with a heeled bullet, and my Martini. They probably have an existing mold for this calibre :)

[@kieranh2005]

Hornady does a .338 250gr roundnose softpoint that is very similar in appearance to the original. Another chap on KZbin uses these, pushed through a Lee bullet sizer at .331 of an inch. Seems to work for him.

[@Procket12]

If you get one thats chambered in 8x56R, you can do pretty much the same thing you're going to do for this except you won't have to deal with trimming. Even though 7.62x54R cases are 2mm shorter, it's not a problem since the case headspaces on the rim and the bullet still sits in the case good and tight. There used to be a lot of surplus ammo but a bunch of twit collectors who have to buy anything with a swastika on it bought a bunch of it up with no gun to shoot it from. Prvi does make 8x56R but it's a buck a shot. Really ironic considering here stateside, you can get the short rifles in the $200-$300 range. The cool thing about why this trick works is that these cartridges are all related. They all link back to the original 8x52mmR Mannlicher as the origin cartridge. It's the parent cartridge of both the 8x50mmR and the 7.62x54R and the grandparent cartridge of the 8x56mmR. Word of warning if you get one chambered in 8x56mmR, get a slip on limbsaver rubber recoil pad because that round kicks like a son of a bitch.

[@Jkl158]

Can you move ammo across schengen borders? 8x50mm is pretty plentiful in Austria if I remember correctly, and it can't take that long to get to Innsbruck

[@OldManMontgomery]

The 8x50mmR is a first generation smokeless powder cartridge. I have a suspicion it was designed by one who had knowledge of black powder cartridges. Therefore the rather heavy bullet and the low velocity (that's how BP cartridges worked). It was - what? - A.D. 1905 Germany figured out the properties and physics of smokeless powder to reduce bullet weight and increase velocity. Besides which, going from 11mm Mauser (380 something grain bullet at 1300-1400 fps) to 2000 fps was a screaming increase.

[@BlokeontheRange]

All the early nitro cartridges were by definition designed by people who had knowledge of black-powder cartridges... And they're all in the 200-250gn range and 1900-2300 fps. The French were the first to reduce bullet weight and increase velocity, in 1898. Not the Germans in 1905.

[@OldManMontgomery]

@@BlokeontheRange That is correct more or less. The Lebel went from the original 'Balle M' a 232 grain (15 grams sounds more logical) bullet (huge by 'our' thinking) at somewhere around 2000 fps (I forget exactly) to the "Balle D" loading of a 12.8 gram (198 grain) bullet - which is merely big - at about 2400 fps. The Balle D was also changed from a round nosed bullet to a 'pointy' shape. (The term we in the U. S. use is 'spitzer', but that is a borrow from the German language and I'm not sure the French would have used it.) The change in the German cartridge strikes me as more impressive as they went from a loading of a 226 grain (14.6 grams, also huge by modern standards) bullet at 2066 fps to the 1905 version of 154 gr/9.9 gram bullet at 2800 fps and change. But my main point was the extreme change in velocity from black powder to smokeless and the dawning realization rifle round especially could be fired much faster than black powder rounds. Since black powder has a finite limit of velocity (due the limitation of the expansion rate of gas due to chemical tendencies) of a maximum of around 1800 fps and a usual, real world result of around 1500 - the U. S. "45-70" military loading was a 405 grain bullet at around 1300 fps, for instance) the thinking of cartridge designers in the early days was 'real heavy bullets, as fast as the mechanism could bear'.

[@OldManMontgomery]

@@BlokeontheRange Correct. That is what I said, with the standard misunderstandings between English and English.

[@CharlieChalk9790]

nice! I cant wait!!!

[@SubZero_NH3]

So cool!

[@dbmail545]

I always wondered how the 8×56R conversion was done on these. Seems like a quarter inch would be a bit of a "stretch".

[@dbmail545]

Bloke on the Range Thanks. Do I remember correctly that the breech face has a small semi-circular cutout?

[@AndreasMarx]

I don't see anything I'd describe as "a semi-circular cutout in the breech face" on any of mine.

[@AndreasMarx]

Are you sure about the bullet lenght? I was under the impression that they are almost the same lenght, they are just seated deeper because of the boat tail.

[@Chlorate299]

Oohhh exciting fiddly engineeringy stuff :)

[@fastmongrel]

They still use 8x50r in India dont know if its possible to get ammo from India though

[@SMGJohn]

Austro-Hungarian weapons, delicious!

[@joelopezjl28]

Damn I want a long rifle so damn bad

[@jason60chev]

Where is the rest of this series???????

[@BlokeontheRange]

Coming up... It's taken a while...

[@jason60chev]

Thanks! I have a 1916 dated rifle like yours in 8x50R. I have some pre-made cases that i purchased on Etsy and a little hand load data using IMR 3031 powder. Am anticipating swaging a 250 gr 338 bullet down to 330. I am away from home much of the time, so I cannot experiment. Look forward to your progress.

[@BlokeontheRange]

It's next up for editing. I literally just filmed the sign-off. Won't launch for a while though.

[@roadpanzir]

If you could have any new in cosmoline bolt action rifle with a case of ammo that was certain not to rim jam what would it be Mr. Bloke?

[@prinzeugenvansovoyen732]

use 8x56 ,its easier and it runns better in the guns also you can reduce the load or take a slower burning powder and a jacketed 8,30mm bullet like they used in the 8x56 i saw guys stripping appart PPU 8x56R, firing the primers, deprime it, aneal it, full lenght size it use a calculated amount of less of the 8x56 powder and the oiginal 8x56 bullet calculateing it you need some knowledge of inner ballistics en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law gas volume calculating by molar mass of powder ingreedients and burn rate/pressure buildup etc test some cartridges with some pressure measure barrel, some software and high pressure piezzo Measure the barrel dimensions precisely and maybe use some fine car polish and a brass brush if it has rust and dirt in the barrel but first try to get it out with brake cleaner and/or Amoniak solution like Ballistol Robla solo if it onley looks like rust Under all circumstances make a safety check by remotely firing it with 1 30% overpressure cartridge and 5 normal if it is not over pressure shot after CIP standarts if there are any so you dont get your bolt in your face if it has intercristalline steel corrosion or microcracks or cavitation corrosion in the barrel

[@BlokeontheRange]

Unfortunately I can't use cases / cartridges that I can't obtain ;)

[@prinzeugenvansovoyen732]

R u sure abaut that , there is plenty flooding around in Austria (not everywhere but milsurp importeurs) and you can get them shipped to Swizerland from PPU factory in Serbia

[@prinzeugenvansovoyen732]

the wood is exceptional good on that rifle of yours, especially the front of the lower handguard and the finish on the front of the rifle as far as I can see They often laid them on rock or walls during WW1 when firing from the ground and the front cracked always first because its just abaut freakin 3mm thick I have a possible solution abaut the impacts on the bolt head, maybe they tried to hit it with some screwdiver or bajonett or disassambly tool so that it gets loose when it was frozen on?

[@BlokeontheRange]

The wood's been refinished, but under the varnish it's OK. I have not seen 8x56 for sale anywhere, and thus far I've had good success with converting 7.62x54R. Still need to film that...

[@prinzeugenvansovoyen732]

Okey still really no bad woodjob maybe there is something with the swiss Zoll Ammowhise www.wertgarner.at/ws/frontend/partner/PartnerShop.php?arId=PPU8x56rTM In Austria we have some Büchsenmacher resizing the 8x56 on an small industrial scale it costs 70c per shot I have shot the 1886 rifle myself and its not that much different than a M95 long Rifle except its a little heavier and has therefor lil less recoil, Mannlicher rifles are as you probably know generally far more convenient in 8x50 than 8x56 If I compare it with other calibers its like 243Win vs 8x57IS recoilwise

[@gabemando7823]

Nice outfit you got there bloke

[@Xoarkitty]

I have the opportunity to pick up one of these myself, but finding ammo? That's whats keeping me from pulling the trigger. Pun intended.

[@robinsnodgrass260]

ok, 2 months have gone by....what is the bore and groove diameter? Did you order a mold yet? How is the case prep coming?.....getting a bit itchy here....lmao

[@BlokeontheRange]

Groove is .314, bore is .330. Yes, I have designed and ordered a mould from www.accuratemolds.com. I have also made cases, and it was much easier than the Intartubes pretended. I've got a lot of projects running in parallel so please be patient on any particular one.

[@robinsnodgrass260]

Bloke on the Range Most excellent! I am doing a custom long range mauser, and I must fireform cases as well....good to hear you are making progress, I will keep watching and thank you very much for responding.

[@alanpassat6759]

Nice stock

[@idge155]

Is this project still on, really interesting rifle ?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Yes, the video is up on Full30, Utah Gun Exchange and Bitchute due to our earlier community strike

[@StepSherpa]

Could give you some ppu 7.62x54r cases to make the brass for it if your import laws are okay with it

[@jobo1647]

Just a question, but couldn't you fire the 7.62x54R in the M95 because it's a sub-caliber round and have it fire-form the first time it's fired? Or does it need to be annealed as empty brass first in order to form properly in the M95?

[@stephenbond1990]

Any chance to see a comparison with the Hungarian 35M?

[@311pique]

I was offered an sporterized one but declined because of the caliber... I do not reload ammo so it was a waste of money for a bubba.

[@WellDressedCaveman]

You said "man licker"...hahahahhaha

[@mpetersen6]

Cast bullet territory. CNC Lathe? Sounds like the perfect rational to justify a fully equipped machine shop to the wife

[@CJoksch]

Huntington's, in Orville California, has 205 grain .329 caliber bullets. I use them to load 8x56R ammo.

[@ExF1Guy]

Craig Joksch Yeah, I suggested the PPU 208 gr spitzers (they work well in my 8x56r), be he said he wants a round nose bullet of the correct weight for 8x50r (244gr, give or take). I may have to give those bullets a try though.

[@CJoksch]

Hope it's better on the shoulder than my M95 carbine. I use a slip-on limbsaver or I wouldn't be shooting mine much.

[@ironmaidenforever665]

Nothing like some oomph up the backside

[@barryolaith]

WARNING: Contains pedantry. Dear Bloke, I nearly choked on my crumpet when in the opening sequence you told us this was a rifle you "can't shoot yet". I always thought one "fires" a firearm and if one's aim is true one consequently "shoots" the target. Historically I believe the commands given to a firing squad were "Ready, Aim, Fire", not "Ready, Aim, Shoot" (I'm referring to the English speaking world and perhaps incorrectly including the USA). I realise from my Pocket Oxford Dictionary that it is not grammatically incorrect to say 'shoot the rifle' but I don't believe I have ever heard a native English speaker use that phrase, so I wonder have you been out in Switzerland too long, or keeping bad company (we've all see your video with Ian) or watching too much Larry Vickers?

[@NOSOUND921]

it means Manly

[@Foche_T._Schitt]

I can understand why the Swiss hated their mannlichers. The bolts suck.