Gibson Les Paul Bridge - What Is Going On! Wrap Around Tailpiece Issue.

[@flymeetspaddle]

i would guess that some play is intentional. considering the screws wont always be at the same height you would need some wiggle room for things to not be perfectly square. like if it was an air tight fit the whole bridge could only move up and down all together and you wouldn't be able to adjust the high and low e side separately. im currently dealing with the posts slowly pulling themselves out of my old bc rich so im looking for fixed bridge replacements that might stay in place better overtime.

[@hoganshideout]

Excellent observation, thanks for posting!

[@rpm4999]

Thats exactly it

[@flymeetspaddle]

@@hoganshideout no problem, i've watched far to much machinist content over the years lol

[@hoganshideout]

@@flymeetspaddle Thanks again, I'm going to pin your comment so that anybody who sees this video will hopefully see your comment too.

[@cane443]

Agree

[@thunderbugcreative7778]

The fix is a simple 1/2" snap ring. Clip two of those babies on the stud below the bridge and enjoy a snug fit.

[@SmarmyJazzCritic]

@thunderbugcreative7778 Thanks! I was sure someone could tell me what part would work to fix this.

[@vidarragnarsson4020]

Music city bridge sell an adjustable stud that tightens down on the wraparound tailpiece and stops that tilt. They also sell a compensated bridge, called the stud finder, which works great for older model. Les Paul Junior’s look them up on KZbin.

[@samuelharris4683]

I have one, with the studs. It’s great.

[@teleguy5699]

The one for a model like his, (newer) is called 'The Savvy".

[@rodneykroetsch2924]

I have a 2004 LP Junior that I bought new. I had the same issue with the bridge/stud relation. Eventually replaced it with the Tone Pros locking stud system. Much more solid now!

[@gordonacton4458]

This is apparently a common problem. I had same problem with my SG Jr. reissue. I got a compensated wraparound bridge from Music City Bridge in Nashville. Also a set of Tone Pros Locking Studs (standard nickel ss1-n). Note: The Tone Pros come with a set of inserts as well. These inserts are a different size (OD) than what is likely in your guitar. Don't pull your inserts. Just remove the old bridge and studs and install the new ones in the existing inserts. Shawn Helsel has a nice video on this on KZbin on his SG Jr.

[@Libra1059]

Same experience with my 2015 LP Junior. It bothered me enough to replace the bridge with a Tone Pros with locking posts. Cured the bridge lean and improved the tone.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the comment Libra. One other thing I have thought about is a cut out washer as a spacer between the studs and the bridge to tighten everything up.

[@hi-range8738]

That's exactly how Eastman do it with their SB55, which is a great guitar btw

[@jovanstepic9439]

And how about tuning stability? I ordered tone pros intonatable wraparound bridge mainly because of my constant tuning issues on my 2022 Gibson Les Paul Jr.

[@MrPickup12]

You can use a locking stud like TonePros to straiten it out. It's a reissue so it's 1957 spec. and that's how they were. If you lock it down it won't fall off when you change strings.

[@walterrizotto8668]

Check out Callaham and Faber, too.

[@johnsmith-ug5tp]

I got a brand new LP Junior today and mine is the same and I don't care because it came perfectly set up/relief/action/intonation from Gibson and the tuning stability is excellent! I was doing full step+ bends and it's staying in tune. After playing it for 3+ hours today the G and B strings barely went flat a beep hair one time. The wraparound bridge on this guitar is better than my Gibson Tribute and my Epi 59 standard as far as tuning stability. I was prepared to order the Music City bridge and stud replacement but there is no need to. 😊

[@teleguy5699]

Thanks for that. I just got a 2024 model that was setup perfect in my amateur mind and honestly I can't find a reason right now to mess with it. Take it for what it's worth, but I brought it to a Guitar Center tech just to check the factory setup and he said it was dialed in. I'm a Tele guy, but the low action, resonance, no buzzing tone, and sustain, on this guitar is great. I bought this guitar to fill my rock monster needs ala late 60's early 70's rock and roll needs and I think I found it.

[@johnsmith-ug5tp]

@@teleguy5699 Thats Awesome. I did however put a Music City Savvy bridge and studs on mine.

[@teleguy5699]

@@johnsmith-ug5tp Not ruling it out down the road either. Just got to get familiar with her first.

[@Mountainrock70]

Its not a problem with it tilting at all. That’s just how they are. Just play it.

[@teleguy5699]

Play the mofo!

[@1972Georges]

thanks. This is a huge surprise to me. I got a 200 USD Harley Benton Bridge - works perfect. no movement - completely streight.

[@tomsimpson7991]

Me too

[@BoDavisMusic]

Same guitar, same problem with the bridge. Intonation drove me crazy and after doing some research I found I wasn't the only one and started looking at solutions. Replaced the bridge with "The Savvy" by Music City Bridge and a set of top adjustable locking studs from Schroeder guitar and fixed the issue. So then the small turners were driving me crazy and it wouldn't stay in tune consistent as I would like so I recently changed the stock tuners out and put a set of Grover vintage 136N tuners on and man oh man, all my problems are gone and the guitar is amazing! Sounds and plays better! Put $200 bucks in the guitar and you will be a happy camper :-)

[@rjm4u]

I have the same issue. I am not sure if it is much of an issue? My intonation is about as good as it gets with a wrap around. The nut is the place to start when doing initial set up. Afterwards you will be close enough. I think they are trying to make the re-issue models as close to original as possible.

[@teleguy5699]

The internet pack mentality says this is a problem, so it must be. How many who received the original versions complained about it?

[@michaelweiss9219]

That's how they are, I have a 2022 like yours, same deal. Mine also has the dreaded "sitar" buzz coming from the wrap tail bridge on the B string. Mine has the locking tone pro studs so I can lock it down tight, the intonation process has my bridge pulled back off the studs more than I would like to see, that's the way it is I guess....

[@lucaswilkinson6441]

i just got an epiphone version with this same issue literally thiss afternoon. still plays and sounds killer. i was curious myself

[@Msantor1605]

Yup, this is completely normal for this design but if you make a few upgrades it will sound better and the tuning and intonation will be rock solid. Throw a Music City Brigde bridge on it and a TonePros Locking bridge studs and you will be dialed in.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the comment Msantor.

[@MrParkerfly1]

Music City has their own locking studs that work perfectly with their bridge. I put one on my Junior. Way better. No more weird lean and intonation is better.

[@thehandseesall]

You can get bridge posts that come on two parts and lock your wraparound bridge or tailpiece in place, giving a solid contact

[@robdoornekamp751]

I have a lightning wrapbar on my LP Special and its tilted as well, not a problem i think but I am very curious to tone differences between a lightning and a conventional more rounded bar. I would expect a sweeter tone on a rounded bar but happy to hear some of your experiences

[@Cajundaddydave]

Same as my original 1955 LP Junior. It looks kinda loose goosey but once under string tension it has a very solid connection to the studs and is not moving anywhere. Does it have great sustain? Why yes, yes it does. If it bothers you slip a 1/2" washer under the bridge and you are golden.

[@Bluesman609]

Glad to see I'm not alone!!! I have a March '22 Junior which has the exact same problem. My first thought was that Gibson had made some mistake and that I'd have a hard time getting it fixed (I live in Australia). I was quite relieved to come across your video as I, like many, was wondering if there had been some mistake during assembly. I think it's appalling that Gibson can't find a stud/tailpiece combo that fits snugly. The Epiphone version is a perfect fit!! Gibson just seem hellbent on souring their own reputation! Thanks for your excellent video - maybe Gibson will sit up and take notice or at the very least, post a reply to explain their choice of mismatched parts.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the reply Steve.

[@jonathanj-g-yyelle6144]

Same here. The Epiphones I own do not have this problem with fit between stud and wraparound tailpiece. *Do not know who the manufacturer is. I have 3 Gibson Les Pauls and 2 have this fit problem. The 3rd one doesn't have a wraparound tailpiece, it has Tune-o-Matic bridge and stop-bar. The strings wrap around the stop-bar.

[@teleguy5699]

@@jonathanj-g-yyelle6144 You say problem. Does it actually affect your playing? Seems like all Gibsons are made this way.

[@jonathanj-g-yyelle6144]

@@teleguy5699 Hi! I don't recall making this comment! Nor watching this video. Seriously! I own an Epiphone but I have never owned a Les Paul! _Let alone 3_ ! 😳 I checked my history, even though the facts are wrong, and there is no watch or comment history. I even checked if my user-name was "spoofed", but no it's right. Nothing bad about the content of the comment, really. It's just that I didn't make it and can't explain how! Disconcerting to say the least!

[@teleguy5699]

@@jonathanj-g-yyelle6144 Bizarre! good luck.

[@MatthewFant]

I’m sad to report that mine has the exact same issue. But even more than that, mine has an issue with string spacing. As in I think the nut was cut incorrectly, and the tailpiece not having any slots to guide the strings just makes the problem worse. Probably returning this guitar. Might try another one.

[@karlhoffmann8915]

Having intonation issues on my 2021 LP Special which is how I found your video. I have the same problem with the bridge popping up. Was thinking about installing an adjustable wrap around bridge.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the comment Karl. Yeah that would kill two birds with one stone. It's hard to get accurate intonation with a non adjustable or non compensated wrap around and unwound G string.

[@johnanderson2112]

I use TonePros studs. Even their non-locking version has a tighter fit with the tailpiece

[@jean-loupdelabatellerie3065]

The most efficient locking studs are either Callaham or Faber Tone Lock. I use a combination of spacers from both brands for each post to obtain the correct height. I also use an ABM 3024n adjustable wraparound bridge. Takes some doing, but the result is top notch!

[@SoMoMule]

I just bought a Harley Benton CST-24 with the DLX GTB wraparound bridge. MAYBE a couple of .001's tilt, needs a little clearance. I worried about the intonation when I first got it. Had to adjust the low E side a little but it's spot on.

[@matthewmiller3205]

Faber or tone pros locking studs..

[@jessefillmore]

I'm having the same issue with my 2022 LP and SG . I'm going to try Music City Bridge . My is leaning/tilting more than the one you showed :( Tom Bukovac has been promoting the "Music City Bridge" to combat this issue .

[@hoganshideout]

Great info Jesse, thanks for posting! Bukovac is a great player.

[@ricksworkbench1386]

Ive setup many gibson with the wraparound bridge and they ALL have this ahem...issue. The fix for me is a thin washer that I cut a slot into, jam it between the post and bridge to get rid of the slop. You think they would take care of this sloppy tolerance. Nope.

[@infideler]

Thanks for the great video. Just received my "demo" 2021 Special today and sure enough - same issue. Glad to know it appears both common, and based on the comments, normal.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the comment Jason. Yeah it makes me feel better to know that this is a common characteristic.

[@jjdillon2007]

With all of my stop tail Gibsons, I use the Corsa-Faber USA locking studs. It locks the stop tail down, tight, with no forward lean.

[@RobertNolan]

About a year late, but i figure I'll leave a comment for your algorithm because IDK if it was answered for you yet. The reason it does that is so you're able to adjust the posts and it can flex while still in those posts and not break or bend. If there was a tighter tolerance, you would not be able to independently raise or lower the bridge posts as needed for the 1st and 6th string height. This is 100% how any one of these should be.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the info Robert.

[@teleguy5699]

This seems like a pack mentality thing. Gibson makes these Heritage series guitars with all high end parts. Why would the cheep out on the relatively inexpensive bridge components? They are building back their reputation with this series.

[@stephenlevin7081]

Had the same issue on a 2020 and seemed like I wasn’t getting the sustain and resonance I wanted-got a Music City Bridge and it made an immediate difference. Louder and longer sustain. The studs were sold out but now back in stock and am looking forward to installing them. Also put in a tusq nut. Sounds fantastic now

[@sh6041]

My 2023 Les Paul Special tailpiece leans but I don't see it as an issue or have intonation problems. If I do I will address it with a compensated bridge. Mojoaxe makes one that has good reviews.

[@dennisdiebel938]

Dealing with the same problem on my new Epi JJN LP with the lightning wraparound. Picked up a Hipshot grand piano bridge to replace it with but now dealing with the the post bushings being slightly smaller than stock? 🙄

[@MajorUpgrade]

I just traded for a PRS SE 245 Standard in gorgeous tobacco burst yesterday with a wraparound bridge like this. The bridge is a little different, as it has individual saddles to adjust intonation on each string. But I like you had the same question about the bridge being cocked up a little on the posts like that. Was thinking it wasn't supposed to be like that, and that maybe even the posts were bent or cross-threaded in the holes!?! It was pretty concerning and so I got on KZbin and did a search, and that is how I found your video. I'm still doing my homework on this. Did you ever get any definitive answers regarding? I think I might have other guitars with wraparound bridges that I can take a look at more closely to see if they have the same...issue?

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the reply and info Major. It seems like the bridge fitment is common for most people that have these guitars. I haven't done anything to mine and will probably just leave it a lone.

[@MajorUpgrade]

@@hoganshideout cool. The next time you change your strings, see if the 2 allen screws are all the way in, and coming out the other side, or backed off a little (the ones on the back of the bridge used for moving the entire bridge back and forth for major intonation). Mine were ALL the way screwed in and I guess at this point, they were sort of a pivot point for the whole bridge on the 2 lugs? No idea, but I backed them off and it seemed to be fine so far.

[@pbriggs65]

Get some Tone Pros locking studs in metric threads and you will be pleased.

[@stevenwilson9865]

I have a 2001 single cut, dog-ear Junior. Lightning Bolt bridge has a little "play" in it. Could of been tighter, but still works..

[@z6nestudio]

Every wrapround bridge I've ever had(or seen) has that same tilt. Never caused me any issues, but I've pondered this as well. Like maybe you could get a brass washer and snip it in half to shim it so it sits straight. That was the only solution I could think up, but I never tried it.

[@BarbaricEricX]

A bit off subject, but I appreciated the close-up photo at 2:47 side angle of the tailpiece. Your video helped me diagnose my own problem with intonation that I was having on my own 2019 LP Special. I was uncertain how much space I could leave between the body of the guitar and the tailpiece and this image shows it perfectly. This was an informative video. Thank you for taking the time to share.

[@hoganshideout]

Hey thanks for the comment BarbaricEricX!

[@barryedwards1336]

Get what you are talking about and you are quite right, what they need is an adjustable one, as it looks like there's no way to set intonation as well, then it can be screwed down to clamp it once you get your intonation, also looking at it, it sits well back on the studs, it needs to seat more central, maybe this then would mean moving the stud holes to keep the neck to bridge length right, I'm no Luthier so it could involve a lot more calculations, but that's for Gibson to sort it, Right, there standards are dropping on the lower priced Guitars without doubt.

[@voxelraster]

I have the same problem with the sloppy feeling Stud bridge on my new Gibson LP Special. I have two Epiphone "Inspired By" versions and they have tight fitting studs. I plan on ordering some stud bolts that tighten for the Gibson, but you should have to do that on an $1800 guitar. My Gibson version weighs over 9 pounds too. I had previously bought one that was only 7 pounds 2 ounces. I sent it back because the wood in the body was badly mis-matched and it looked awful. All in all, I went through testing 9 Gibsons before I found my current one. I bought it because it felt the best with a thicker neck and good frets. All of the other ones I tried had been Pleked until they felt like the old "Fretless Wonders". No excuse for that other than having lazy or untrained operators of the Plek machine. It feels awful when your fingertips rub so much when you do any string bending at all. As it is now, one of my Epiphones is my favorite Special to play. It just feels better and the P-90s even sound better. I thought Gibson was getting their sh*t together, but they seem to have come a long way to make the guitars look better while ignoring the overall playability issues...!

[@wls64]

I have a Gibson 2014 Les Paul special 1963 reissue with the wrap-around lightning bridge, and is also tilted. 🤨 I would like to shim it up somehow

[@guyprovost]

I know that some people use a washer that they cut to insert to fill that "space". Funny, cause I have a cheap Epiphone with this exact tail piece and it does not wiggle at all, it is an exact fit. Have no clue why it behaves like you show us here. Thanks for sharing with us!

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks guyprovost!

[@johncurtis3354]

Tone Pros makes a set of studs that will fix you up. They are made to tighten down on the bridge. The stock studs and bridge are all loose.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the info, John, the Tone Pros looks like a good solution.

[@thornev]

Definitely a quality issue at Gibson. That tailpiece SHOULD sit tightly on the studs. Don't accept any excuses. The lack of a tight fit also diminishes the transmittal of sound into the body which reduces sustain.

[@christopherclarke3022]

I have a number of Gibson std LPs however due to a shoulder injury and spending of hours on a regular basis composing material my poor should would often complain so I went a bought a Gibson entry level LP Junior tribute special white body with Humbuckers not p90s That did come with a what some folk refer to as the lighting bridge(intonation molding as part of wraparound tailpiece. As for it sitting on the studs pieces no problem overall, there is a slight tilt but not as obvious tilt as your TP appears. My issue it the the TP does not quite move forward (closer) enough to to the neck get a 100% intonation for the high E and B string close but not perfect. I have since ordered a Schaller Signum Wraparound Combination Bridge and Tailpiece to hopefully solve any intonation issues I am a bit of a stickler when it comes to intonation. Also when I get the new bridge it has a locking nut on it to keep it secure at string change times. I had first looked at a Tone Pros (WR Bridge) first but the cost in Australia compared to the Schaller Signum is quite expensive in comparison. The other option if you haven't thought about it would be to find a metal washer you could cut and make to reduce the gap between TP and studs, it is a cheaper alternative to what I am doing. Just a thought.

[@-that_guy-1674]

the wrap around bridges on my newer les paul and older epiphone both have micro angles. i’ve never noticed but I also would like to know if it matters if it’s parallel.

[@brianbogle5050]

I have an identical guitar from 2020. The bridge sits at the exact same angle. I hadn't really thought about it before. The intonation has always been acceptable. I usually play the guitar for a couple of hours before I retune and it's usually just two string (g and high e). So I'm not going to change anything. But I see what you mean about the weird fit.

[@toyamakanna]

I find there’s a finish defects next to the bridge stub of your guitar,is that come from the factory?My Gibson also has a finish defects on this position.

[@hoganshideout]

I think it's just where the finish was sprayed over the bridge studs and has chipped off a bit. Gibsons have a very homemade/handmade look and feel and there are many cosmetic flaws on all of them. It's part of the charm.

[@toyamakanna]

@@hoganshideout thank you for telling me that,by the way,the problem you mentioned in the video is also exist on my guitar,there is an angle on the bridge,and my guitar is the same model of yours which is Gibson Les Paul Special.Maybe it’s a common problem of this model.

[@hoganshideout]

@@toyamakanna Yes from the feedback this video has gotten I think the bridge angle is common to this model.

[@shanebitrevival]

Hopefully someone here can help. I purchased a TonePros AVT2M Wraparound Bridge to replace the stock wraparound on my 2020 Les Paul Special (just like the one in this video). The post threads are not the same so its not a simple drop in...Do I need to re drill the holes or is there a different bridge I need? Any help would be AMAZING thank you!!

[@hoganshideout]

Hi Shane, try contacting Tone Pros and see what they think. I definitely wouldn't drill any new holes for the bridge studs though. Good luck. tonepros.com/contact/

[@pbriggs65]

The studs don't fit because you bought the metric kit. The American gibsons have standard threaded studs. The M at the end of part # stands for metric.

[@TedP007]

The "lightening " bridge on my Epiphone Les Paul SL has the same problem & the post retainers are pulling out of the body. I bought a replacement from Amazon with individual string intonation. It makes the action much higher & is still sloppy on the posts. ( Also posts are sloppy in the body inserts ) This is going to need lots of tlc to make it a decent playing guitar. Made in USA doesn't mean what it did in the past.

[@wesleyb_92]

My olive drab LP special does the same thing actually. I’ve thought the same but never saw anyone talking about it

[@yaron1998]

You can buy a tonepros wraparound bridge ! It looks the same as the original. They intonate even better, but most important of all to you: They have locking studs. If you dont know what these are theres a vid on youtube explaining how they work -> ( how to install mcb locking studs). Basically you can tighten the posts in such a way, that the bridge is clamped, so theres no play and it cant tilt.

[@hogie1259]

A fellow Hogan… must mean it’s a great channel. Indeed, great channel! As to the bridge, I changed all 3 of my wrap around bridges to the lightening bridge. Much better intonation, no lean and a much tighter fit. It’s worth a try on yours.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the comment Hogie!

[@jamescardella2133]

I have the same issue with my bridge and I took it to my local guitar shop and they couldn’t figure it out. With me it messes with the action. I play with low action and due to this at the top of the guitar the action is low but toward the body it’s too high

[@cupidstunt66]

I'm an engineer with 30+ years experience who got into guitars later in life and I find many things with guitar equally baffling. Like why do you have to stretch guitar strings, seriously... You can put people on the moon and have a super computer in your pocket but can't make a machine to pre-stretch strings... I've also just bought a les paul special. I love it, but I was also baffled by such a low engineered solution for the bridge. In addition to what you mentioned, I also see the post screws are a really sloppy fit into the body inserts. I was thinking of tightening it all up with plumbing tape, but then I thought, that will deaden the vibration between string and body... so didn't. Anyway despite the low-tech nature of the whole setup, I don't actually think it matter all that much. It's all under the tension of the strings anyway and there is some beauty in its simplicity, and they do sound great. But I agree with you, sometimes you scratch your head with some of this stuff. I guess that's why PRS has made so much money LOL.

[@scottgoins4310]

I have the Left handed 2021 LP Special. And the intonation was horrible. I bought an after market tailpiece which had movable blocks so to be able to set the intonation. Took it to a tech and I still had trouble with intonation. There was half an inch difference between the 12th fret to center of the tail piece and the top nut. Couldn't get it to intonate at all. Finally after much frustration I took the aftermarket one back off and placed what I thought was the original tailpiece back on the guitar. Turned out to be an Epiphone one that came off a project experiment guitar that I've been toying around with pickups and wiring for a while. Lo and behold, two homemade shims from paper set the intonation!!!! 😮 I shit you not. A Chinese tail piece fixed a $1700 guitar.

[@tombajnok1707]

From a functional standpoint, it's a non-issue. With the strings under tension there is no problem with playability. From a cosmetic standpoint, my OCD might have a problem with it.

[@tuna22lm]

I saw one guy that had the exact same problem with the exact same bridge so he took a flat washer from a tone or volume control nob. He then cut through one part of the washer then bent it up and to the side then slid it onto the threaded post and then placed the bridge on top of that and that worked the washer acts like a spacer that cured that problem. But that definitely is manufacturing problem the tolerance for the bridge and post is way to much in the machining process that should be corrected, maybe if a lot more people complained about it then they might fix it.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the comment tuna22lm.

[@AuntAlnico4]

I've got the 2019 Gibson Les Paul special double cut cherry and it's got a extra wide wrap around bridge that doesn't have any play. I've also got the Epiphone inspired by Gibson Les Paul special single cut and it's got a wrap around bridge just like yours and it has a tiny bit of play but between the string tension and the Allen set screw it locks into place pretty good but I adjusted it with tension on the strings so it cut little groves into the post so the set screw really locks into it pretty good, but that's because of the grooves the set screw cut into the post when I adjusted the height of the post with tension on the strings and bridge. Maybe try that and see if it cuts grooves into the post. Of you don't like it you have brand new ones too replace it but I bet it will work.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the info aunt jenifer.

[@ic3berg339]

i just bought a eastwood les paul jr but the tailpiece is low and im not sure how to raise that up

[@Bikedueder]

EVERY wraparound guitar bridge I have ever seen fits like that. Everything from a $200 BC Rich Warlock, up to your guitar. They seem to make all of the stop tailpiece studs the same measurements, and then use them for the wraparound bridge as a blanket application. The wraparound bridges show how glaring the difference is, because the string tension pulls them up in back. The strings pull in a different way when it is just the stop tail, so it's not as noticeable.

[@borgonianevolution]

I just did a repair on a 2011 LP Jr with the same style tailpiece. That was MUCH tighter that either of the tails and studs you have shown. My guess is Gibson decided to save a little money and kept the old stand offs but moded the bridges themselves to not be as beefy. Happens all the time in manufacturing where changes get made without thinking of the consequences of said changes. My Mockingbird was much tighter as well. I would look into different posts at the very least. That added pressure up high will probably over time produce the same issue I repaired with the hole oblonging underneath and allowing the whole bridge to tilt forward making stable tuning impossible.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the info and comment.

[@borgonianevolution]

@@hoganshideout I am reconstructing a kit LP someone messed up and got all new Guyker hardware for it. The Tom and tailpiece look to be solid and the chrome looks respectable. You may wanna take a look at what they have to offer.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the reply and info and suggestions, borgonianevolution9164.

[@hoganshideout]

@@borgonianevolution Thanks, I'll definitely check it out.

[@redearthpaul178]

I have a les paul melody maker and I noticed the same issue when i got it. I'll upgrade to a better bridge that actually fits

[@rickrevoir1683]

I just bought a 2020 lp tv. New in box from zzounds, intonation is off & I have the same issue with wraparound tail piece . Sad really because I love the guitar.

[@bobcorbin7545]

I have a ‘21 Les Paul Special. Same wrap around bridge/tailpiece. Same loose fit.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the input Bob!

[@kellyharrison1081]

I have the same concern with my 2020 Gibson LP Jr. The tailpiece is angled. I put a set of 11-48 stings on and wondered if it was angled because the increased string tension. But I guess it must be a LP Jr. issue. I also worry about the studs that screw straight into the body. They do not look sturdy. I want to put thicker strings on, but not sure if the studs will hold. The USA production Les Paul Standard's studs screw into bushings which look more stable ((instead of straight into the body like the LP Jr.).

[@hoganshideout]

Hi Kelly, thanks for the comment. Are you sure your LP Jr bridge screws straight into the body? There should be sunken bushings the studs thread into. I've seen them painted over so much it's hard to tell.

[@kellyharrison1081]

@@hoganshideout I think you are right! There was a lot of paint. I actually traded LP Jr. in and got a LP Standard. I'm surprised, on the Standard, how non-angled the tailpiece is (but I guess it's not top wrapped). Also, the Standard intonates a lot better especially with thicker strings!

[@hoganshideout]

@@kellyharrison1081 The Standards are great guitars, enjoy!

[@YooTooobJeff]

“Witness point”… you mean “contact point”? A witness point would be a marking to indicate where parts fit together before disassembly so that they might be reassembled to the exact same dimensions

[@altemose_prime]

I noticed this the other day on my Junior.

[@mitcharney1]

That's why the aftermarket thrives. The originator doesn't attempt to improve their own mistakes.

[@daviddequasie6816]

I had a 1962 Gibson Les Paul/SG that had the same issue with the bridge. If I still had that guitar, I would find some thin washers and cut them in half to put under the bridge.

[@martynrandall7652]

I had the same problem on my Gordon Smith Lp jr . What I done is got 2 stainless steel washer then carefully groung a slot out of each of them so to make a U shape. So when inserted between the post and bridge it acts a spacer to take up the slack. I filed all the rough edges off. Also the posts were abit sloppy to, so got aluminium foil and wrapped strips near the top to take the play out!

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the info Martyn.

[@martynrandall7652]

@@hoganshideout I took time to read some more comments, and noticed you already thought of the washer idea. Haha

[@ProfessorGroyper]

The screws need play since the treble and bass sides might need to be uneven. Old bridge designs are crap. Ric didn't change their bass bridges until 2019. Just part and parcel of owning a vintage styled guitar.

[@PeterSchuett]

My 2022 Gibson SG Special has the same issue. I have now ordered TonePros Locking bridge studs and hope they will fit and cure that unbelievable issue. Why is Gibson doing this???

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the comment Peter. Please report back after you install the Tonepros with an update.

[@PeterSchuett]

@@hoganshideout I have now installed the TonePros VS1 C bridge studs. It is easy to exchange them. I have kept the original Gibson inserts (that implies that you can take the cheapest inserts from TonePro, as you will not need them anyway, but ensure to have the right material for the screws, which in my case is steel with chrome, and US threads (they do also exist in metric)). Now the original Gibson wraparound bridge sits flat and the strings are well in place - the very first time! This now allows a perfect tuning across all the fretboard - and, in case you have to exchange just one string, that is also much easier, as you can now take off the bridge (after lowing the strings only a bit) to the top rather than the back. I am happy again, but still do not understand why Gibson still uses those studs that are designed so badly? And this after so many years and so many sold guitars? We should all send Gibson the bills for the TonePros ...

[@hoganshideout]

@@PeterSchuett Great info Peter, thanks for posting back. I may order a TonePros to check out an do a quick follow up video.

[@mikebarnard2689]

I was told, the play is intentional .. it allows some leighway when adjusting height ..say treble side down and leaving bass as is. Kinda makes some sense, but the obvious kicker to that argument is that locking post systems exist and presumably can be clamped with differing bass and treble heights. I do see the logic if bass and treble were vastly different height tho as without slack it would stress torque the studs. Edit… I see this is covered in an earlier reply, sorry for duplicating. I’m going to fit the TonePros posts anyway and see what passive fit is like, if my bass and treble height are similar I’ll lock it up, if there is quite a cant or slope,I’ll either leave it passive or just snug up the lock part so as not to stress the post holes into the wood.

[@PeterSchuett]

@@mikebarnard2689 I can only believe that it is intentional to some extend. On my SG it was so bad that I could not fix the bridge so that the small compensation extensions could come into play. The bridge angle, which should be close to zero, was simply much too big. So it lost the possibility to compensate. I cannot believe that that is intentional. Also, I was told that those Gibson bridges came in the 1960ies with studs with screws on top - like the TonePros have today. The simple ones Gibson uses today are cheaper and saves Gibson some money …

[@johndavison2539]

Have The Epiphone Version with Same Issue

[@diogocarreirapt]

My Les Paul DC from 1997 has the same issue. Those wrap around bridges aren't great for tuning and intonation. The guitar keeps going out of tune with string bending.

[@tcjensen1]

Same here. Nature of the beast.

[@dwightrobertson275]

Music Cty bridge is the top for replacement bridges and studs,

[@dlavell7806]

I have the exact same Gibson (Vintage Cherry) LP Special with the exact same issue. I'm really hesitant to try the Lightning Bridge simply due to the price. I know Faber makes a replacement with tighter tolerances but that bridge is also approaching $200.00. Gibson needs to up its game with the machining of these parts.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the comment D. I have decided I am not going to worry about it and just stick with the stock bridge. It looks a bit off, but it doesn't seem to be really affecting anything.

[@jimmyhartman573]

the "Savvy" model bridge from music city bridge and locking studs works wonders

[@Richard_Lush]

Interesting just checked mine. Same thing. I do find the tuners, even though they’re supposed to be Klusons are sub par. Going to change them out for 3 on a plate Gotohs. See how that goes

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for commenting Richard.

[@barrypilson2158]

I've got the Epiphone version that has set screws on the back side of the bridge

[@patwilson674]

Yes , my Epihone Les Paul Junior has that same Look

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for the comment Pat.

[@robertstan2349]

i have a stock 2020 special. best intonated guitar i have ever had. i don't what to say lol

[@martintaylor1758]

Thanks for this very useful video. I am hoping to buy a new guitar soon and the LP Special crossed my mind because I love P90s. I’m not keen on wraparound bridges though so been doing some KZbin research. I think I will skip the Special. Not even sure I will go with Gibson. There are other P90 options.

[@hoganshideout]

Thank for checking the video out Martin. There are definitely a lot of great P90 guitars out there.

[@martintaylor1758]

@@hoganshideout I really struggle to understand how they can charge such an expensive price for a guitar like this when it has flaws.

[@hoganshideout]

@@martintaylor1758 Here are my thoughts on Gibson generally: they have a very homemade/handmade feel and always have -- even the really expensive custom shop models. I have a Japanese made Gretsch Jet and it is virtually flawless -- I have never played a Gibson that did not have uneven binding, tooling marks everywhere, misaligned tuners, etc. However, it doesn't really bother me and in some ways it's part of the old world vintage charm I guess. Almost any guitar in the Gibson price range would be more precisely made, though.

[@martintaylor1758]

@@hoganshideout Thanks for the feedback, it really helps. Honest and balanced. Much appreciated.

[@garyp5522]

My SG Junior slants so bad it is raising the action. I was looking at a Music City Compensated bridge and new Tone Pros studs, Btt why should I have to spend another $100.00 plus dollars.

[@hoganshideout]

Thanks for posting Gary. I've thought about adding a horseshoe washer under the bridge, between the bridge and the posts, to tighten things up a bit.

[@garyp5522]

I just ordered a Music City Bridge. There Studs are in the works but Tone Pros makes neat adjustable studs. Check them out. Also if you already have not seen this kzbin.info/www/bejne/gp_EkImNes-tZ7M

[@garyp5522]

@@hoganshideout I actually thought about the horseshoe washer myself.

[@hoganshideout]

@@garyp5522 Checking it out now, thanks Gary.

[@garyp5522]

I Believe the locking studs are SS1-N Nickle -C Chrome-G Gold or B Black. I figure it is a Gibson better do it right.

[@ronaldmay1283]

“Nature of the beast”

[@-DILLIGAF]

Regarding all the hate in the comments. This is a reproduction of a guitar that was made well over half 100 years ago (1950s). The tail piece is original '50s spec and is period correct. Gibson isn't "cutting corners", "being cheap" or "failing to do a good job", blah blah blah they are keeping with the original vintage design. Could it be improved upon? Yep, that's why there's a whole after market full of upgrades. Purists would be complaining if Gibson changed the original specifications. Gibson can't win either way. So, they stuck with the OG design and I applaud them for it. Now we can play a modern reproduction of a classic guitar for a “reasonable” price and love it with all of its quirks and shortcomings.

[@Jason.King.at.your.service]

The engineering in the 50s wasn't as sloppy as you think it was. This is not fine tolerance engineering even for the 1950s. They built engine's for cars and aircraft and other finely made metal items. I had a 1962 SG (branded Les Paul) and it definitely wasn't that loose as this. And it was a decade old when I bought it.

[@-DILLIGAF]

@@Jason.King.at.your.service I wish they still made stuff like they did in the '50s. If you have a toaster or a desk lamp or anything else for that matter made from the '50s it's still running strong and will last a lifetime. Cheers

[@Popskull_666]

That's exactly what my bridge looks like. The 2019 junior Tribute DC sounded better than the Junior i have now WTF? doesn't stay in tune. Not impressed with the new 2020 junior man. I get the science behind it but this bridge is getting tossed and a RESOMAX IS GOING ON. Had one with the tribute JR man that thing was stable as hell and better intonation I have ever come across!!!

[@moonvals]

I just bought a 2023 les paul special. It has the same bridge issue and is also very badly set up. Not happy with Gibson on this

[@iRevolVeR21]

My 2022 sg jr same loose fit bridge

[@Jason.King.at.your.service]

The fact that it has the intonation screw's tells me that it is definitely the right bridge. Maybe they've sent you the wrong posts again?

[@bettyhughes2084]

This video is in my experience misleading. The problem is that if you back the bridge off it will as noted tilt which will bring the top of the bridge closer to the nut, negating the effect of backing it off. If you back it off more the problem is increased. When it tilts a lot it starts to get really noisy at the bridge and the guitar sounds harsh and shrill. Search the internet on how to tame a harsh Junior. The solution is to put the bridge in flush with the studs and back off carefully. It will get as good as it is going to get way before you get a lot of tilt. Not perfect, since it is just a straight bar. When you don’t have a lot of tilt the guitar will come alive and sound like you hoped for. At least it did with mine after I went in and corrected what the “expert” had done when I took it to him to set the guitar up.

[@stillkickinmusic]

this solution doesn't make much sense. How does backing it off carefully change the tilt. It won't.

[@amonterrosomusic]

Same with my 2022 junior.

[@meanmud1]

Gibson Tech Support needed to see a pic of the issue?!? Anyone a little familiar with Gibson wraparound bridge/tailpiece knows about this issue.

[@jean-pierremarinalonzo3204]

Hi, Here in France i have the same seesaw wraparound bridge on a 2020 LP tv yellow Special !! Must be a kind of covid 19 .... 🗿

[@AMGL1989]

They’re all like that. You’re not going to find a Gibson made one that doesn’t do that. I believe Mojoaxe, Faber Corsa, or maybe some other boutique parts manufacturer makes one that will take care of that issue. I never had a problem with it. Aesthetically, it’s appalling.. but shouldn’t really do much. Some commin problems with bridges like that are: not being able to intonate because of the neck angle.. so the bridge is on the brink of coming out of the posts. Another issue is not being able to get the action low enough because of the tilt and a shallow neck angle. There isn’t much you can do but buy a better part made by another company. Actually, there is one thing you can do. You go to a hardware store, look for a 1/2 inch or 1/4 inch washer.. cut it to make it c shaped. Stick it in between the post head and bridge slot. It has to be pretty thin. I’ve done it before. Just gotta go through trial and error. Unfortunately, I didn’t take measurements with a caliper. Hope this helps.

[@hoganshideout]

Awesome post, thanks for the info, Ariel. I have thought cutting some washers to shim the bridge and may give that a go at some point.

[@AMGL1989]

@@hoganshideout That’s the best course of action! If you want to keep stock. I remember this vaguely, but I think I put the c washer/shim on the side closest to the bridge, because if you put on the back side I believe it starts to bend, and the bridge tilts very slightly because of it being intonated and loss of overall contact between the bridge slot and post. It’s fixable, that’s all that matters!

[@hoganshideout]

@@AMGL1989 Cool, thanks again Ariel.

[@logantang]

I have the Epiphone inspired version of this guitar, and the wrap around bridge fits snug and stays straight with the strings on.

[@hoganshideout]

Interesting. Thanks for the info Logan.

[@Richard_Lush]

You’d figure Gibson owning Epiphone you’d have the same hardware issues. I assume Epis are made off shore. You’d think the quality would be less but I’ve heard some really good things about new Epis. Build quality etc even bracing etc on acoustics. So there you go. Just because they’re made off shore doesn’t mean crap. Look at Eastman. Great guitars for the price.

[@logantang]

@@Richard_Lush Bear in mind, a regular wrap around bridge is quite inconvenient regardless. You spend alot of time trying to get the intonation perfect and you get close but some strings cannot be perfectly intonated. I'm gonna swap it for a wrap around bridge with individual intonation, and hopefully that makes my life easier.

[@Richard_Lush]

@@logantang doing the same thing😄👍

[@hoganshideout]

@@Richard_Lush Good point Richard. Yeah the Epiphone stuff is top notch as well as a lot of other overseas stuff like Gretsch.

[@stuartmiller7419]

So many excuses made on Gibbo's behalf for failing to defend both their price point and their poor performance. Most egregious.

[@georgehoggatt3759]

Fixed mine, by inserting c washers.

[@tomgreen876]

get a Gotoh, they are amazing

[@Popskull_666]

Damn, I just noticed I have black screws too! WTF GIBSON REALLY?

[@hoganshideout]

Lol, I think the person at the parts table is just grabbing whatever is closest.

[@butchmuir447]

Music city locking posts 👍