Girard Predicts Apocalypse | Mimetic Theory

[@bi.johnathan]

To be notified of future lectures, essays, and book reviews, subscribe to my newsletter: johnathanbi.com Full transcript: www.johnathanbi.com/p/transcript-of-girard-lecture-vii

[@aesop1451]

Ideally America would sit down with Russia and China and draw up spheres of influence. But asking America to withdraw its influence from certain regions is like asking Elon Musk to stop developing Neuralink or Sam Altman to stop developing AI. Russia and China are more afraid of us then we are afraid of them. Maintaining a global empire makes it harder for us to focus on our internal problems and address the deep polarization in American society,

[@stillnessinthewest]

Jonathan- This is one of the best explications of Girard I have seen. Thank you. I hope these lectures will slowly spread. If we aren't ready for Girard now, we won't ever be. Though as what is upon us continues to unfold a growing minority of people will gravitate toward what he had been saying for decades. These lectures are a great help in that regard. -Jack

[@bi.johnathan]

Thanks for engaging with our work Jack.

[@anthonydgallo]

This entire series in incredible. I'm reading through the transcripts now and I'm just absorbing even more than my first round through the videos. Girard, all jokes aside, could have easily started a cult with how in-depth and future-predicting his philosophy was!

[@Louis.R]

Read through Girard.

[@heartbrakeB]

Hey Johnathan, Hope you make more lectures & that this isn’t the last. Live long & prosper. Happy New year, God bless.

[@bi.johnathan]

Thanks m8

[@anthonydgallo]

"But for those of us, most of us, not lucky enough to be given such a treasured gift, Girard's suggestion is simple -- withdraw. Withdraw from the world. Leave the world behind. Tend to your own garden. Proximity is the problem of modernity. There's nothing we can do about social proximity -- we're all equals now -- but we can create physical proximity by leaving society altogether." Haunting, and yet it is what many have resolved to when looking to overcome the rat race and hedonic treadmill of the world.

[@nat.serrano]

Even if you physically withdraw you still social media that pushes you again to compete, compare, imitate

[@MiyamotoMusashi9]

Ted Kaczynski was correct this is my final post Who is John Galt?

[@pdeezzel]

No it's all about solitude. withdrawal here means building and being in a small community.

[@aesop1451]

@@pdeezzel If you're going to live in a small community you would have to adopt some of the non-Christian rites and practices that Girard critiques. Fight Club, the Matrix, Eyes Wide Shut, and Office Space all came out in 1999. All of them are critiques of modernity. "Logically speaking" it's preferable to live in modern times over pre-modern times. But as Johnathan pointed out, the law and capitalism minimize kinetic violence by maximizing potential violence (surrendering to the monopoly on force which is called the state). This is why libertarians and anarchists keep losing. The freest societies are nomads and bands of hunter-gatherers, even with their archaic rituals. Some libertarians and anarchists are capitalists, which requires the state (see Ayn Rand's minarchist state). But just like capitalism needs to constantly expand, the state needs to start regulating almost everything to prevent violence from erupting. Industrial civilization is destroying the environment, so smart cities are being devised to help regulate energy and be more efficient. But this is to the detriment of our privacy and freedom. Our complaints fall on deaf ears.

[@mymom1462]

Great series John! I remember reading your Medium Blog Post series about Girard glad to see you getting around to making a whole video series.

[@bi.johnathan]

Thank you!

[@bowandstring3482]

I would suggest that retreat from the world is the needed engagement with it. The world, of which we are divinely advised to be in and not of, has problems with itself and its emigrés. Saving acts of love may happen when love's actors are least aware of it, perhaps too busy bearing their cross. More grace! Thanks for this unflinching unpacking, guys, may you continue to dig and share.

[@KoolAidPianist]

Thanks for the effort that went into producing this series. Any time I've tried exposing people to the ideas of Girard, my personal disagreements with his ideas always seep through and leads to them being turned off or misunderstanding it. Linking them these videos has been a lot more effective.

[@gestalt3930]

Fantastic series. The production quality was easily the best I’ve ever seen for a philosophy lecture. Would love to hear your personal critiques and an overview of other common critiques of Girard’s philosophy in future videos.

[@bi.johnathan]

Thanks for the kind words. I have many disagreements with the Girard presented here. Not the least of which his claim on the uniqueness of Christianity.

[@kkkkkristo]

I would not have guessed that you did not share Girard's thoughts on such an important point. And admire even more the self-discipline that made you hang your own views on a hook and convey Girard's doctrine with such passion as if it were fully your own. It was a good choice. Thanks to this, this series has universal educational applications. And I personally thank you both for it.@@bi.johnathan

[@NogGonnaMakeIt]

This is an excellent presentation of Girard, and the quality of its production makes this an essential recommendation.

[@bi.johnathan]

Thank you Sean.

[@TheMcanulla3]

Thank you both! Greatly appreciate the time and talent put into this production. Will share with my community.

[@bi.johnathan]

Thanks for sharing our work!

[@rosschristopherross]

Thanks!

[@מ.פרומר]

Thanks from israel. Thanks about this lecture and many more!

[@bi.johnathan]

Thank you for the support 🙏 means the world to me

[@stefanoviel4504]

Truly inspiring, thank you for the amazing work.

[@Icosindaba]

Gosh, what an excellent, crisp presentation Johnathan. I started watching, wondering if one can be both a Girardian and a Universal Christian Pacifist (having become one 40 years ago, refusing to be conscripted into the apartheid whites only military). I ended lecture VII concluding that if one is a Girardian, there is no way one CANNOT avoid being a Universal Christian Pacifist. Now my conundrum is "Doomsday Prepper in an underground bunker" versus "continue to speak truth to power and prepare for more more retaliation and scapegoating".🤔 The highly volatile situation in South Africa is begging for these insights. Especially your explanation of the place of Law and Ritual in mitigating and sublimating mimetic rivalry. I fear the rule of law in South Africa continues to erode and unless we can come up with new rituals to deal with the memetic rivalry things are going to become increasingly violent. I am now heading for the hills in seclusion to ponder all of this, and write. Thank you so much Johnathan. You have given me huge insights.

[@luissberenguer_]

Amazing lecture Johnathan

[@bi.johnathan]

Glad you made it to the end

[@NCAD]

Finished the series. Now reading the transcripts. Thanks for introducing me to Rene Girard.

[@JonathanTsao-g8j]

These lecture series have undoubtedly initiated my conversion - thank you Johnathan

[@wadirkargar2249]

Great series thanks both for giving your time and energy

[@bi.johnathan]

Thanks for staying till "the end" (in both senses of the term).

[@ChrisOgunlowo]

Finally completed this. Great conversation. Hey Jonathan, if you get to publish a book on these ideas, I’ve saved some change to pick a copy 😊. You’re a brilliant mind.

[@bi.johnathan]

Thanks for engaging with my work!

[@bowandstring3482]

Another listening...brillant work, thanks. I would say that any withdrawal from the world is enabled by a grace not of ourselves, however perceived--, another step in one's journey. Once converted, the real work begins. The Holy Ghost is the mediator required for benign haunting!

[@alexandru.marinica]

There’s an air of optimism here. On New Year’s Eve we engage with the Apocalypse 😬

[@bi.johnathan]

If you think there is an air of optimism left you likely haven't watched to the end of this lecture. 😛 In my defense, I did warn you at the end of Lec I to proceed with this series at your own peril "Abandon all hope ye who enter here"

[@alexandru.marinica]

@@bi.johnathan I was trying to convey sarcasm by juxtaposing the theme of the lecture with the celebration at hand. I find it difficult to believe that it was released today by accident 😆

[@Louis.R]

The word "blame" (ie., blâme, or blasme in Old French) is etymologically related to the Greek word "blaspheme". The word "category" is from Greek "kategoria" meaning "public accusation", the word "crisis" (like "crime") is from the Greek for "decision/judgement", and the word "decision" is from Latin "decidere" for "sacrificial cutting of the throat of the victim". Let's not forget either, that the word "épidémia" means "befell the people," and "gift" means "poison" in German.

[@PieterHanja]

Thank you so much for these great lectures!

[@kwekvonscaf]

I really liked this series. Went through it a couple of times by now, and probably going to reread the transcript as well. Thanks for all of this. I do hope, that at some point, there is a follow up lecture. One where the author that is being discussed, is also vieuwed through a critical lense. In the beginning, you made clear that these weren't your vieuws and that you had crticisms of his work but that wasn't the point of the excercise. And I think that's a good choice to make. However, if you reach the end of Girards' work and ideas, then I believe it is time to see valid crticisms to his work. I think it's important too tackle authors, because you don't want to create messiah figures and prophets. Espescially not with a writer that provides a lense that has such "epic" consequences. Again... thanks a lot.

[@bi.johnathan]

Thanks for engaging with my work. Yes, that would be a good thing to make.

[@SuperFloyd187]

Thank you.

[@HiwotAG]

Thank you so much!!

[@bahreh.7807]

Human society desire for self determination is near. Our desire to watch war & destruction videos rather than peace, love & reconciliation tell you the collective madness

[@soccom8341576]

If the end is here, then so is the solution. And it IS ALREADY HERE. It just isn't even across all of society. For instance, those in the upper classes have no need to stop their mimetic contagion and competitions, not yet - while they have the means. But the lower classes are getting the hang of it, out of necessity, to a certain extent.

[@piushalg8175]

A collegue of mine who worked in Japan once told me that gift givving in Japan is very tricky because the recipint is very much obliged to be at least reziprocial which can be very problematic if you haven't got the means to act according this social urge.

[@michelberge1654]

May I suggest that these podcasts could be broadcasted on Deezer as well? However I do not know if this is expensive or difficult, it is just an idea. The videos, transcripts, your answers to comments are great.

[@EdJonProductions]

This was an absolutely fantastic series. Well done. Are either of you Christians, after all this?

[@bi.johnathan]

Thanks for engaging with our work Ed. I would say we are both more open to it than before (David much more than me). However I don’t find Girard’s defense of the uniqueness of Christianity fully convincing, at least not in the way I’ve interpreted it.

[@PSBosses]

First! Yes!! Let’s gooo!!!

[@PSBosses]

By the way. You picked the right suit for the occasion. 😊

[@bi.johnathan]

@@PSBosses attending a funeral

[@Ldianecoleman]

Thank you so much, Johnathan. Is there any possibility of getting a transcript of all the lectures?

[@bi.johnathan]

You can find links to all the transcripts here: johnathanbi.com/lectures

[@piushalg8175]

Girard is right. The principle of guilt was rather alien to ancient societies. Punishment was done because of disturbing the order and to restore order whether the breaking of the order was intended or not. What counted was the effect of a deed.

[@fryingwiththeantidote2486]

44:30 differences

[@soccom8341576]

Withdrawal can mean different methods. Its not as bad as it sounds. Low expectations, lying flat, bai lan from China, hikikomori of Japan are all methods to do so. Quiet quitting, cushioning are all survival strategies people have come up with. And it's not only mimetic contagion - inflation and stagnant/falling wages lead to much hardship and survival itself becomes a problem. It is mimetic apocalypse, and much more.

[@MrEast900]

Jonathon Bi who was that one man in that submarine that averted apocalypse and was he awarded the Nobel peace prize ?

[@A_Random_Rat]

He is talking to someone. Idk why you guys are hiveminding so hard. His video titled Apocalypse at around 1:08:00 is where the clip is taken.

[@StochasticCockatoo]

Is it JB talking to David Perrell??

[@nat.serrano]

Girard missed to include sports as a way to deter violence ( as we tried to substitute the scapegoat mechanism with alternatives after Christ came)

[@mills8102]

I've always wondered if sublimation actually sublimates or stokes.

[@samexp]

Jonathan, Such an absolutely staggering accomplishment summarizing Girard. Going into this lecture series, I knew nothing about Girard. After finishing this series, I was able to summarize this for some of my friends and got them interested in Girard. You are a wonderful presenter. Such clarity and eloquence in style and substance is rare. Also, wondering if you mainly went with Greek mythology in your examples because Girard uses them, or because they are so well known ? I think some more sprinkling of myths and rituals from other cultures, thinking Hinduism here (apart from the Hymn of the Purusha), could be a good thing to. For example, burning of the effigy of Ravana representing the triumph of good over evil, is one of the rituals that is still practiced in India during the festival of Dussehra kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3mkmmxqpLpmoKM I hope you have other series planned, because you are such a wonderful teacher. Can't wait for more from you !

[@bi.johnathan]

Thanks for the kind words! Yes I mostly focused on the western canon because that is what Girard focused on. He does have a book titled sacrifice that is focused on the vedas!

[@jaiBisht0001]

This was deifying Girard, I want to see your opinion. And will wait for it

[@elel2608]

1:20:08 big

[@jaimes7966]

Mmm this seems to augur dire consequences when US hegemony weakens and when we enter an era of multipolarity… Weakening hegemonies don’t seem to ever transition peacefully into new orders? As far back as spring and autumn into warring states, Greek states post Sparta and Macedon, post Rome, post Charlemagne , post Italian maritime dominance etc and then a whole series of hegemonic contenders in Europe which culminated in two world wars… At least 3-5 major poles rn, of which 2-3 contenders for hegemonic status globally becoming increasingly apparent now, with more signs of decoupling from reserve currency and global rules of law, wonder if you guys think that the next cycle is awfully soon?

[@StochasticCockatoo]

Wow law decreasing kinetic violence but building up the potential violence

[@nat.serrano]

I just binged watched this. Thank you for taking the time to put it together. We’re all doomed, but it was meant to be otherwise how can we go back to the father? Anyways, you inspired me to read Girard, I have the book “things hidden since the foundation of the world” but I found it difficult to read. What books and in what order do you recommend me to read his books? Thanks

[@alexandru.marinica]

There’s an answer to this question in the comments of one of the other lectures. Browse the comments and you shall find it.

[@bi.johnathan]

@@alexandru.marinica Pasting here: 1. When These Things Begin is the most accessible. Essentially an interview asking him about his opinions on many more contemporary issues. Helps you get a "taste" and intuition of his theory. 2. Then there are two routes. 2a. Longer and recommended: Desire, Deceit and the Novel for his psychology. Violence and the Sacred for his anthropology. I See Satan Fall Like Lightning for his reading on Christianity. 2b. Shorter but perilous: jumping straight into his magnum opus Things Hidden which covers all 3 topics: psychology, anthropology, and theology. If you do decide to go this route perhaps my notes will be of aid: johnathanbi.com/book-notes-summaries/things-hidden-since-the-foundations-of-the-world. I do strongly warn you against this seemingly shorter route. Kant, in the preface of the first critique tells us that if we judged a book by the length of time it takes to read and not the number of pages then some books would be much shorter if they weren't so short. I think you too will find that trying to take a short cut here in terms of page length will require more time for you to get through his work. 3. Battling to the End for his eschatology (end of the world). 4. With that you will have the "core" of Girard's system. You will be fluent enough to explore the rest of his corpus e.g. Theatre of Envy if you enjoy Shakespeare, Sacrifice for his commentary on Indian religion.

[@Louis.R]

In response to 17:00 - The scapegoat mechanism has not been purged, but driven to more sophisticated disguises of "righteous indignation", as we see in the woke "concern for vicitms", which is a ruse for the scapegoating of so-called "oppressors".

[@ox8833]

The Aztecs didn’t resent the people they sacrificed. Also the tribe in that kills some random person? How is that right? That’s insane

[@ProtossWannabe1984]

I assume it would act as a strong deterrent to make the would be killer think long and hard before acting rashly. So that even if the killer had “nothing to lose” himself (so to speak) he might still be incurring a penalty on somebody else he may care a lot about. Just my speculation, I could be way off base:)

[@bryanutility9609]

There’s been no greater scape goat than WW2 Germany. That’s some real memetic contagion. World has been downhill ever since.

[@seanblack7188]

The 2 entrepreneurs i know where both big gang members that did ALOT. They were just lucky enough not to get locked up before they had a chance to mature into men. 📈

[@zxsw85]

Sub 100 views let’s GO

[@therearenoshortcuts9868]

Read the thumbnail as; "Interrupting Girlfriend"

[@bi.johnathan]

Philosophy will interrupt any hopes for getting a girlfriend

[@NewNameNeededNow]

The ball so be lying tho.

[@jacobkuhn4743]

So i sat thru this whole series waiting for some justification for why y'all were so ready to lionize this pomo marcus aurelius and at the end im just left with the question whether yall two are just credulous dumb techbros or if you actually acknowledge the terrible reductivist psychology/anthropology (much less the tooth-grindingly facile history) that girard is spinning from the standard structuralist canon but nevertheless think his pharmakon is personally effective enough to hand wave this away... my impression from the really annoying preacher delivery is that you actually bought his literary criticism for more than its market price. either way im still just baffled why yall don't just crack baudrillard's symbolic exchange and death alongside graeber's dawn of everything.

[@jaiBisht0001]

Thanks man got something new to chew on,

[@brianmurphy7461]

dang let the other guy talk!

[@aaronsmyth2026]

Could you not just have a normal conversation between two people acting normally?

[@nasrinvahidi5515]

You see the whole world as Christians. You forgot all the other religions altogether! With a small exception of the Jewish faith and two words on Buddhism , you did not refer to anything else. 😂