GitHub Copilot Just Destroyed All AI Code Editor Startups

[@MelkeyDev]

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[@mohitkumar-jv2bx]

Neovimmers, Assemble.

[@hackerware_sh]

I really hate not being able to upvote this comment multiple time!😂

[@Redyf]

Neovim loooove

[@vaisakh_km]

I was about to comment one nvim plugin away XD

[@lol3xdlol]

which plugin do you recommend?

[@NizzyABI]

not surprising at all a lot of these 'ai startups' are just forks / clones anyways

[@hebozhe]

"Pay $10 a month to not even use our model if you don't want to."

[@sguploads9601]

yap - tahst a question to me - they basicaly charge 10$ for interface

[@aLfRemArShMeLlOw]

Wait, so the other LLM's are not included? If you have to pay for tokens, it's going to end up being astronomical in price. At that point, better to invest in a 4090 and run a model locally.

[@maloxi1472]

@@aLfRemArShMeLlOw You misunderstood. He was referring to the choice you now have to use non-OpenAI models in Copilot

[@loktar00]

​@@aLfRemArShMeLlOw a single 4090 cannot run any model that will do well with coding, I'm hard-pressed with 2x3090s, getting two more to resolve that 😅

[@vaisakh_km]

I think coplit can be freely installed, paying for the model.. so prob we can prob hook it to ollama and use for free

[@DeanRie]

Copilot will never beat Cursor until it has something like Cursor Tab.

[@yelodev]

that's the secret

[@abdulsamad.abd007]

wow, well siad. i just downloaded cursor right now and I'm flabbergasted. because its insane. i literally built the mobile view of my app and told it to make it responsive for multiple views and it did. like coding now is a lot less stressful

[@AlastairSmith]

I've just started using cursor.. What is cursor tab?

[@DeanRie]

@@AlastairSmith Cursor Tab is code autocompletion when you're typing, but it's not like how Copilot works.

[@DontFretBrett]

Cursor can’t compete with the resources of Microsoft. Cursor might be able to survive going an entirely different path as far as developer experience. Then it becomes a matter of personal preference and some will always choose the less popular tool/framework because they like how it works.

[@arthur-zhuk]

A lot of the value comes in from the UX and prompt style not just this surface level "we support more models now" implementation.

[@itskittyme]

yeah well said, basically how ChatGPT did it, GPT being around for a few years, then ChatGPT UI was just put on top of it, and the whole world went full AI in just 1 week xD It's amazing stuff, never thought UI / UX could be such a game changer before that happened.

[@arthur-zhuk]

@@itskittyme Yeah plenty of room for all kinds of AI powered editors in this market, all going to be better than one an other in some subtle way.

[@itskittyme]

@@arthur-zhuk I personally think AI powered code editors are a waste of time ( I mean, developing them) because this technology is going so fast, that we are going to skip that phase so quickly and move onto a world where you don't even need a code editor at all. I know I'm going fast ahead on this one and skipping a few (necessary) steps, but I mean, from the perspective of building out a business, there is more opportunity in the future to be thinking about already and to prepare for instead.

[@edwardroh89]

@@itskittyme As someone who is building out full scale applications as a dev and utilizing ai as much as i possibly can...your dream is probably further than you think. It makes me a lot faster...but at the same time, the amount that i have to constantly debug has increased tenfold hence having to think and architect codebase way more carefully.

[@itskittyme]

@@edwardroh89 I'm in the same position but one of my jobs is to ensure those LLMs don't introduce those bugs, and I can tell you, we are closer to a solution for that than you might think, also just FYI, set your temps at 0, a lot of developers forget to do that. I've had a lot of discussions with devs in the past few months who then, at the end of the conversation, turn out to be coding at temps of 1... and I'm like: why are we even having a discussion about code quality xD

[@annoorange123]

splitting JS and TS in a list is criminal. slide probably generated by AI

[@t.ludvig]

They are two different languages though, would you not split C and C++ too?

[@carmen_13]

@@t.ludvig more appropriate comparison would be c and c preprocessor, not c++.

[@DhruvRed]

After using cursor free version, cannot go back to VS code anymore

[@kalligatorGR]

Zed editor has had the multiple LLM choice for a while now as well.

[@highcollector]

Can you use Zed with a local LLM?

[@DeveloperProtocol]

@@highcollector Yes, Zed supports Ollama

[@debsouryadatta807]

Happy to hear since I already got copilot with my edu account 👀

[@mubashir3]

A bit hyperbolic title. “Copilot will sometime in the near future offer other LLMs in the code editor”. Cursor has been doing that and a lot more for quite some time.

[@parsanobahari6089]

5:59 embrace, extend, and extinguish. where have I heard that from?

[@metaltyphoon]

Heard from some Linux neck-bearded in a basement somewhere

[@vour6654]

Transformers

[@alexandraspalato]

Unfortunately I'm addicted to the cursor tab, and to the composer!

[@muzzi1984]

There is Gthb Edits anymore like Cursor Composer

[@huseyn8233]

This feels like paid review, or author doesn't know Cursor's feature set

[@Paul_Marek]

I’ve been using Cursor with both GPT and Claude since it came out - as a newbie GenX coder. I feel like I have a friggin genie or magician in my computer. I’m shocked and what I’ve been able to build - front end and backend. If anybody can make that better I’ll give it a shot for sure. The future looks bright.

[@mal-avcisi9783]

Oh my god, this is insane man

[@mee_ehow5106]

I can't believe I'm watching a video of a guy hyping up a model select field. Cursor still has some great features like being able to easily reference a terminal output, or other small DX things that work because they've escaped VSCode limitations. Unless Github Copilot team collaborates with VSCode team, Cursor might still be slightly ahead. And slightly ahead is probably enough for Cursor to get piece of the pie - transitioning from VSCode to Cursor is really seamless.

[@MelkeyDev]

you're watching the video because its great! loosen up a little bit. I think the need to move entirely from VsCode to Cursor is gonna happen a lot less now with multi modal selection field. If, as you said, 'small' DX things are enough of a reason to jump from VSCode to Cursor - sure, so be it

[@mee_ehow5106]

@@MelkeyDev oh it is great, like every other vid, cheers!

[@nickmassie5487]

@@MelkeyDevA plugin won’t be able to compete with a llm first editor. This is common sense. Also, i watched the video bc you popped up in my stream. Not bc the video is great

[@A_k_h_i_l_007]

@MelkeyDev r u saying your video is great urself?🤣

[@futuretrees]

​@@MelkeyDev Cursor's plan, code, apply flow is miles ahead of what copilot does. Copilot will need to catch on and implement that flow. Cursor has a fine tuned LLM which applied the code written by a larger model, very quickly and accurately

[@marcusg2000]

You clearly have not used Cursor.

[@deggertsen]

💯

[@floriankapfenberger]

Also Copilot will come to Xcode which is huge for iOS developers who can't easily switch editor

[@dyto2287]

I on't think this is very relevant. Most iOS developers use Xcode just to trigger builds while coding in other editors anyway. Xcode is cursed.

[@floriankapfenberger]

@@dyto2287 Agree that Xcode is the worst editor and it has so many bugs and don't get me started on the swift package manger and it's caches. I did not find the time to setup Neovim with xcodebuild, but will have a look in the future.

[@farmersneed]

I remember Xcode used to have about a 2 star review on the Apple app store. One day it suddenly went up to 3 stars. I'm almost positive it's fraud on Apples part.

[@dyto2287]

@@farmersneed It must be fraud it had 2 stars already 😂. If it was 1 star I think it's Apples own AppStore policy to remove it from the store.

[@SR-ti6jj]

I mean does it have the TAB thing and Composer? Doesn't seem like there is feature parity with Cursor yet, but close

[@MarvijoSoftware]

It has Composer, it's called Copilot Edits. That was the big announcement at GitHub Universe '24

[@NeurodivergentTM]

Hmmm. I just stumbled over a similar video, but where Cursor was the "Copilot" killer (hate that word). I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

[@cholst1]

So basically the assistant panel in Zed?

[@ibrahimmohammed3484]

Zed is still extremely underrated but now it's my main editor

[@WebDevCody]

Dang bro viral video much?

[@EcomGraduates]

Of course this was going to happen. Cursor is a fork of vscode slapped with a built in extension. Microsoft wasn’t going to sit back

[@Redyf]

I have copilot but don't even use it on neovim, but I might give it a try again if I'm able to select the model I'd like to use

[@zyphtron]

Looks like a paid advertisement from CoPilot, which is nothing but a chat interface and not even a model!

[@feiyi7237]

whats the difference between current GitHub Copilot and cursor , I mean whats new features that cursor doesn't have

[@shellcatt]

destroyed my eyes, dude

[@TechnoMageCreator]

So far cline extension in vscode and using cahtGPT 4o and o1 to rewrite your prompts to calude (add to memory in chatgpt as much as you can about your project, including the structure of the frontend and backend, and set system promots to build specific prompts based on vsc, cline and claude sonet 3.5 works), when hitting a wall I made (with O1) markdown file printer that takes all files i work on and print as a single markdown, feed that to claude project and have it analyze each module this way. It's a lot amof manual work and is for single person project building flow, but there is no tool tabt it can achive things with the workflow I have. Hope this helps you all with your workflows.

[@Paul_Marek]

I’m going to give that a shot. Thx for the tip.

[@TechnoMageCreator]

@Paul_Marek you're welcome. Think of AI as a thought processing machine. The more precise meaning in your words the better its performance. That's why I constantly laugh at the benchmarks. All of them are based on a first prompt and see how far they go compared to human. But for the absolute better performance we have no test, human guided. All I know is everything I know how to do and learn, just asking like a monkey AI beats me in a few seconds. Why struggle? Lol

[@curbyourdata]

since copilot uses chagpt and claude, can I cancel my subscriptions to the llms?

[@giorgos-4515]

do people still use LLMs in code for anything other than line autocompletion?

[@qet-lab]

marc andreessen recently compared new startups in AI to selling rice - no product differentiation.

[@johnnyahmclean8934]

Thanks!

[@usmanabdurehman97]

Extensions like Continue and Text Editors like Cursor also allow you to choose the Model you want. What's special in that?

[@QuebnQ]

Makes it so people wont even think about switching away from vs code.

[@MarvijoSoftware]

Also Cursor is double the Copilot cost $20 vs $10 pm

[@jaidynbelbin4863]

Cursor Tab is fantastic though.

[@itskittyme]

There have been a lot of start ups / ideas that were created in the past year and you have to be really really careful what you are going for as such a startup / developer because if you don't choose wisely, your work and your product will become obsolete very very fast.

[@RA-xx4mz]

Plot twist: they’re letting you use other LLMs so they can train copilot off other LLMs.

[@AhmedIsam]

copilot is not a model to be trained to begin with. its a brand for the software and the backend of it can be anything.

[@ja31ya]

Imagine not updating your browser...it's been so long the button turned yellow...

[@SidTheITGuy]

Destroyed how? Is it better? If yes, how? Are previous bugs addressed? Like hallucinations, mistakes, mis-answering, out of scope answering? Any of it? Seriously asking.

[@janek4913]

No because those are root issues inside the LLMs themselves. This change here however only regards the infrastructure and tools around the core LLM.

[@SyntaxLexx]

Petition for Melkey to start melking Python like an Anaconda!

[@grif.n]

Is python also the best language for writing web APIs that just have basic AI functionality with langchain and not training or ML? Or is it better to use JS

[@Sub0x-x40]

i just used fastapi, a python library to write a basic chatbot. great experience, simple

[@RoninSpirit247]

deldarrax here, nice as always, sheesh. huggies dude

[@RoninSpirit247]

the prompting code is evolving faster, its giving me chills

[@nuttbaked]

1) what

[@HunterMayer]

I still won't be happy until I can map to my local model.

[@emil_l889]

Think Teej working on something similar for nvim

[@macmanuelodumeru3708]

Really?

[@lighty262]

switched from copilot to codeium, they implemented this first before copilot.

[@ranjithkumar-xt2zw]

First watching your video, why few seconds video went monochrome?

[@_vetrivel25]

Is there any AI to connect git repo to ai

[@fernandobalieiro]

all those startups are just vscode forks hahaha, nothing new under the sun

[@roman_vanesyan]

zed has had similar feature since what... august

[@hamburger--fries]

Cline + Supermaven is so far better than CoPilot.

[@plasmatch8]

Hmm. Will they support locally hosted LLMs?

[@rusting_in_peace]

😲… 😞 doesn’t working on Latam yet

[@TheNjordy]

But I thought what GitHub copilot was its own LLM trained on all GitHub code. And how it’s just a bring for regular Claude/openai/… models?

[@TechnologicNick]

I think only the inline completions were using OpenAI Codex, and the chat feature was using GPT-4, which was later upgraded to GPT-4o. I don't know if Codex is still being used for the inline completions.

[@IvanRandomDude]

That was the case before OpenAI GPT mania. Later they partnered with OpenAI and switched to using GPT.

[@giorgos-4515]

AI code editor = VSCode + OpenAI wrapper

[@yoel-c2k]

Copilot is also half the price of Cursor

[@AIInsights23]

I still use cline on vs code

[@adamdrake39]

Looks like a poor man's Cursor to me. Cursor is a much better experience than Vscode with Github copilot IMO. Claude 3.5 has been in Cursor for a while.

[@boccobadz]

Good. Most of those startups just forked VS Code; wrappers offers nothing besides price tag and the way to finesse VCs out of their money.

[@chem826]

Can someone tell me how are they using Copilot ? I had it for a month and only thing is good at is writing commits or formating texts like readme files. Idk what else to do with it.

[@SlippinJimmy6969]

no one knows cuz it does suck lol. I know a dev of 25 years who couldn't get much value from it at all

[@DarrenFuller]

Some colleagues of mine use it to write code that I have to fix

[@chem826]

@@DarrenFuller thats funny haha, I can feel your pain

[@IvanRandomDude]

The effectiveness of these tools highly depends on the specific codebase you have, language you use, project architecture, libraries etc. It is really not a silver bullet. I had projects where it was able to nail most of the things but also projects where it was just slowing me down.

[@SlippinJimmy6969]

@@IvanRandomDude yea it' great at parsing stuff pretty much, and doing easy tasks if your good with combing them to do big ones, chatgpt is way better than co-pilot imo using co-pilot over it is dumb

[@bouamarelouahhabi9525]

Did you use cursor, it still the best I think!

[@SSmartyimages]

And then Windsurf goes and put github copilot in the bin haha. Whats next?

[@felix-na]

not a good take imo. Cursor still has better features / ux

[@michaelturner-mp6jw]

Tried it last night and was painfully slow

[@joeking5211]

I thought CoPilot is Microsoft. This AI business gets really confusing with how owns what, what's open source what's paid. Is there ANY YT tutorial out there where someone has mastered the skills of explanation of the AI framework such that all of us slightly not so bright folks can get our head around it such when the next plethora of AI LLM's ? appear tomorrow we can at least put them in some sort perspective.

[@satriasuria877]

As far as I know, Microsoft bought Github a few years ago.

[@joeking5211]

Ah yep, so they did, thks for the reply.

[@XxmedogamerxX898]

Cursor is free copilot is paid

[@ja31ya]

It's not free; you still have to pay a subscription fee for access to the language models. The editor is free, just like vscode.

[@wallhack7244]

javascript == typescript - basically same set of skills, so combined steel beat python

[@totomomo18]

Cursor is on level 2 Other ones like him are Aider and CLine. Cursor can change multiple file by one prompt with no need to tell the Ai what files you want to change. There are so many Ai coding asstients that are in level 1 (Less advance from Cursor but better than Co Pilot) like Tabnine , Cody , Ask Codt. Co Pilot was on lowest level 0 just like Codeium (But at least that is a free Ai) . He just took a small step foward to 0.5 which is too little too late. What funny is it has such advantage over other Ai being connected to Git and yet it is almost dead last in quality.

[@SSmartyimages]

Try windsurf, give it a to do list and be clear at the start of the project what you want. I think so far it's the best.

[@leninsanchezaguilar3316]

supermaven already offers chose model ...

[@j0hnc0nn0r-sec]

Python is being used so much because it has the fewest tokens per input vs. other languages, i.e. better "readability"

[@oscarsavolainen2764]

That’s literally the opposite of what used to be true, because the spaces weren’t being tokenised effectively in GPT 2. They had to change the tokeniser to deal with Python because Python was so popular.

[@SkullTraill]

I want this is neovim

[@m.x.]

Python is S., that's the worst news for developers and software engineers.

[@nikhilverma4976]

If I may, consider summarising a post instead of reading it verbatim. Thanks

Copilot still sucks because their Team has only a little sense of UX/DX Another Problem is that only gpt01 Preview is the only usable source > sona3.5 and so on. Guess what, you can do 6 qurstions to IT and then you have to wait 6hours. Thats Not the way to stay produktive with AI

[@BeastModeDR614]

Cline destroys them all

[@muzzi1984]

With huge monthly api costs

[@BeastModeDR614]

@@muzzi1984 Wish they make that subscription based with unlimited usage. Or maybe an open source model comes out that is as good or better

[@RprtBak]

Still not gonna use it for $10/month

[@djenntt]

Cursor is so bad, it hurts coding with it. It will overwrite what I’m trying to do from time to time

[@matthieu875]

when you work on corporate level codebase the only serious editors are the ones from Jetbrain

[@TheNurahh]

Lol

[@CoClock]

Is Webstorm that good?

[@日本語だけを聞くために-n3o]

@@CoClock no, its not

[@igoreksazonov]

only Codeium

[@o_glethorpe]

Basic they realised they can compete with claude and whenever will comes next, you are way off dude

[@zeddy893]

Not better than cline 😤

[@muzzi1984]

What about api costs on Cline

[@jurgensen_eth]

still like cursor better :D

[@explorster]

Windsurf is still better.

[@lkjhoiuy97yjhgghfyrthgvjhguty]

Going to have to create more JS and TS projects now :D

[@erocvdub]

Click bait

[@Dawsatek22]

i think python can be also the first language that is recomended because barrier of entry can be less difficult for a lot people at this time period and less overwelming i guess

[@weiSane]

No, that’s exactly why we have such mid software engineers. People should start out with strongly typed languages right at the get go. C, Java, go is great way so that they can learn and get fundamentals right. Plus python is just a wrapper for C 😂

[@hello19286]

@@weiSane No, that’s exactly why we have such mid software engineers. People should start out with machine code or assembly right at the get-go. Assembly, machine code is a great way so that they can learn and get fundamentals right. Plus, C is just a wrapper for assembly 😂

[@freezingcicada6852]

@@hello19286 Well in the case of more strongly typed languages you do need to think about things instead of just slamming Var/ Any on every little thing. Though I think Java is a fucked up language to start with. Ploping objects *{object}).Function() into functions is essentially just... Making/Alloc a struct/class and referencing it or with function pointers (methods) is way to complicated without any benefit past organization? (Which is a terrible reason to have methods) The main the reason to have more indepth knowledge of this is cause you know the trade offs and its not like you spend forever to learn it. Just spend a few minutes butting heads with the compiler errors and read the errors. (Which for higher level languages you'd never know cause its obfuscated for "Not worth your time bro. TRUST") Oh, I dont consider myself a programmer. But I think Go or Odin are more beginner friendly languages. Especially for the errors cause you'd want a PHYSICAL manual for the compiler errors of C to make sense of LNK ERROR 69 bs, imo

[@Dawsatek22]

@@weiSane you have a point but for some people who have to selflearn because of understanding or lack of external :like,college,mentors,education or advice it is sometimes hard to begin with lower language and unless you early motivated and ready to fail longer than you begin to succeed. I thank the reason for that i learned to code because i tried to look at my weaknesses and desires later on to find out my best route was into robotics for my goals and also thanks to arduinos to lower the entry barrier to get a foot into the door. but i was very lucky to think that way and i had more to win than to lose for not trying. but many people get into the trap finding the most easy to heard to get into(i think web dev and machine learning second place) niche and earn money instead trying to start something that aligns likely to you so that you are willing to work harder from my observation.and that because of market forces and economics and unrealastic expectations we created a faustian pact in the dev world were yeah we created more devs at the cost of: lower quality average devs,lower wages what caused less incentives to get potentially good devs to go in ,messy labour market were bootcampers(who went into bootcamps were it is hard to check the quality sometimes) ,lowering quality college grads and self taught programmer(like me ),senior devolopers who are senior sometimes beacause of there time or connections in the industry but now competing with rusted skills (because of if guess a sort of boomer mentality), an Ai(average indians and the rest of the 3th world market) who post on a applications for visa while there clearly says is not from a brutal indian job market and more that i will not at the moment type competing with everbody else to get in a shrinking pool of a industry is partly the cause. that is my opnion

[@loo_9]

@@hello19286i appreciate this response. i don’t disagree that people should use strongly typed languages but to say that one thing is bad because it’s a wrapper is stupid.

[@jessedbrown1980]

pythagora is better

[@isheriff82]

BS

[@auslei]

Ten bucks is too much for personal use

[@nicoelyorugua]

Cursor is Dead.

[@abujessica]

not before your mama's dead