‘Give’ Ep. 5 Clip | The Spanish Princess Part 2 | STARZ

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[@JL-uw8xm]

I love how Catherine even talks about Henry's mistreatment of his mistress. She was so lovely

[@shivaniad]

Its a woman thing 🤷

[@babushkathe14th]

Disagreed. Catherine of Aragon is just as bad as Henry in this show because she let Edmund de la Pool and Lord Stafford die.

[@carolinewolf_flame8123]

@@babushkathe14th what could she have done? She tried but Henry wouldn't listen, women in those days had very little political power, and what power she held was continually pushed aside due to Woosley's influence over Henry using her gender and inability to produce a male heir against her. It would've played out differently if their first son and the other stillborn sons had survived infancy into childhood/adulthood, her influence may have most likely lasted a lot longer than it did.

[@Redluna32]

Eh, I actually disliked that the writers totally undermined this action of Catherine's by having her treat Bessie like utter trash to her face (and that's not even touching on her hauling off with Fitzroy the second he was born).

[@jazminmuro9692]

@@babushkathe14th Well, they were already a threat to Henry's reign, and rumors and speculated pieces of evidence Wolsey had so claimed provided had been issued to the court. It was already happening and Catherine who was once so loved and equal to her husband is now pushed behind him and no longer can do as she pleased. So, it was a turn-out change from an equality queen into a submissive and obedient wife that must be told what to do by her husband.

[@reynabelladonna3587]

I love how gradually Henry turns into the Henry Eight we all know

[@MountainPearls]

The worst of it actually probably happened pretty quickly after a head injury (and possibly Syphillis and/or Type II Diabetes).

[@caitlingoodall3138]

⁠@@MountainPearls are we really blaming diabetes for murder?

[@TheRealDeal92]

If only he knew that it is the man that decides the gender of the baby. It was never Katherine’s fault. His and his alone. Katherine was treated horrible and unjust at the end of her years. She and her daughter, Mary deserved better. In the end, Henry’s reign was outmatched and bettered by a daughter he disowned, Elizabeth Tudor. Her reign puts his to shame ten times more. A woman carried the family legacy more than he ever did. And Elizabeth Tudor honored her mother, Anne Boleyn. Anne Boleyn got the last laugh in the end.

[@katrinahays364]

And the thing is that most of the children she lost were boys

[@tinahernandez-zudell1399]

I would have loved to see Henry's face when he found the men decide the kid's gender.

[@elsahermanns1189]

the only good thing that henry did was : give a sperm to create Elizabeth. Even though he was an awful father (to all of his children)

[@cathylanders6377]

And Edward Tudor too

[@catalinacafe5746]

Catherine had her own karma of loving England more than her motherland, Spain. and she married her first husband's brother. In an otherworldly sense, it is bad karma. Arthur as a ghost must have been sad and furious. Its bad karma for Catherine.

[@laurenlazarus977]

Henry needed a son because at the time securing the succession meant peace within the country and the continuation of his family bloodline.

[@daniellemusella1594]

He makes it sound like Katherine was DELIBERATELY not giving him that son! Ugh! And also, there's been some recent speculation that Henry had something called McLeod Syndrome , related to having Kell-positive blood. This has a horrible effect on pregnancies, making unborn babies anemic after a certain stage. It causes the mother's body to reject the baby as a foreign invader, if it has a different Kell antigen from her. Sporadically, once child might be antigen-compatible with the mother, sparing it from the effects of this disease, which is why some historians believe Mary, Elizabeth, and Edward went full-term.

[@zipzap570]

But his surviving sons never past their teenage years.

[@daniellemusella1594]

@@zipzap570 Most sources I've read from point to Edward's death as being caused by tuberculosis, which was referred to as "consumption" back in the 1500s. I can't remember what it was believed Henry Fitzroy died from, if it was the same disease or not.

[@zipzap570]

@@daniellemusella1594 Yeah weak males

[@princess7jasmine]

@@zipzap570 even in the modern day people die from turbocolosis. No matter how strong they are. Edward actually survived both measles and small pox before that.

[@babushkathe14th]

That is true, but it would have been better if people could realize that men determine the gender of the baby, not women.

[@scottibrown3274]

The reason why Henry became obsessed over having a son is because the Tudor dynasty was still young. Henry VII originally had it secured with the births of Arthur and Henry, but then when Arthur died (and Catherine wasn’t pregnant), all of that pressure to maintain the Tudor dynasty fell on Henry’s shoulders.

[@transfemprincess]

That may be but that doesn’t excuse the mistreatment of his wives, the affairs he’s had, the bastardization of his daughters, or the amount of pressure he put on his son to be king! Henry wasn’t even supposed to rule in the first place! If England weren’t so patriarchal, the throne would have gone to Catherine of Aragon since she had a much more legitimate claim and was actually educated on ruling a kingdom!

[@scottibrown3274]

@@transfemprincess I’m not defending Henry by any means, I’m just saying that it was the 16th century and Kings wanted male heirs to continue their dynasty. Henry didn’t treat his wives or daughters well, we all know that, but it was the 16th century, times were different

[@transfemprincess]

@@scottibrown3274 Maybe so, but neglect and abuse will always be relevant no matter what century it is.

[@scottibrown3274]

@@transfemprincess true, but if you went up against the King, you were basically signing your death sentence. Look at Henry’s daughter Mary for example. Mary refused to acknowledge that her parents marriage was illegitimate, acknowledge her father as head of the church (which she refused to do since she was Catholic), among other things Henry wanted her to do, and her life was dangling by a thread, until she signed the document Henry wanted her to sign; then her life improved significantly afterwards. Even Henry’s younger sister Mary had to handle her brothers anger, when she married Charles Brandon, Henry’s best friend, without his permission, even though Henry told her that she had his word on her second marriage to marry whomever she wanted, although he went behind her back and was planning her second marriage without her consent. Now, Charles and Mary did technically commit treason (I think) since they married without the Kings consent, and Mary was a Princess while Charles was not.

[@transfemprincess]

@@scottibrown3274 Honestly I can’t say much about Charles and Mary but Henry’s daughter Mary, I’m sure, suffered from depression and anxiety thanks to him. Not that I’m saying she’s totally guiltless considering her body count.

[@elizabethwalsh8832]

I loveee this show ♥️

[@na.bi____]

So do I

[@via-anghelmagahum2586]

What a woman! Lectures and scolds him about the hurt all the women in his life, even his mistress who despite the pain she must have felt for losing his love and infidelity. Here was turning into a monster vs the loving innocent prince he was before. And “need” give you a son to neglect and only love for what he represents. She is in pain and hurting and it’s because. Of. YOU!!! “God” is not giving you a son by her because you don’t deserve it and her!

[@babushkathe14th]

Right, but Catherine had no room to talk as she is just as bad as Henry.

[@kaedetachibana3884]

Amen! Could not have said it better

[@BrilianaArimbi]

Love her accent ❤

[@slaymetaehyung1302]

he's insane, turning the tables on her

[@gaborhegyi6168]

No,no. Jonathan Rhys Meyers "Henry" would never have tolarented anyone talking to him like that. Where is your famous wrath Henry Viii?

[@midnightbluefairy]

That comes after Anne Boleyn: before her he was an agreeable, people pleaser. After her, the fight with Catholics and his jousting injury brought forth a vicious, short tempered man we know as Henry the 8th. Scholars people his head injury was the main route of his personality change, for where they theorize he took most of the blow can influence your behaviours and amplify them (so a mild temper could become a violent one, like his did).

[@itsyagirl6549]

@@midnightbluefairy Nah even back then Henry was someone who had no tolerance for the type of behavior someone like Catherine is exhibiting in this clip. For example, when she yelled at him for making his son Henry Fitzroy the Duke of Richmond and Somerset, Henry went off on her and took away all of her Spanish attendants.

[@AmethystEyes]

@@itsyagirl6549 irl?

[@itsyagirl6549]

@@AmethystEyes Yes

[@queencatherineofaragon938]

@@midnightbluefairy Also many other injuries could be responsible too. He also had extensive/deep ulcers on his legs, the “treatments” were torture along with just the awful pain of having ulcers. He was surely in constant pain, and people tend to lash out when they’re hurting.

[@joyyeong3946]

Omg I love his show!!!!!!!! Can we have more season and more episodes until it' can go long and mabye we can have more on the other wives as season pleaseeee I beg of you PLEASE

[@GoGreen1977]

I suggest you watch documentaries actually based on real Tudor history. There are some really good ones out there (those by David Starkey, for example) that are just as dramatic and entertaining without all of the made-up crap. Did you know that Henry was only 10 when Catherine of Aragon came to England? He certainly wasn't writing love letter to anyone, let alone Catherine. Tudor history needs no embellishment, but if you do love this stuff, make sure you balance it with historical research.

[@dreamsteddybearsmaster]

GO CATHERINE

[@narizhat3074]

Charlotte Hope ❤️❤️❤️

[@ameliaflynnhayes]

Henry really feels like he can do whatever he wants.

[@melieflynn-hayes7996]

This shows how he became the man everyone knew him to be.

[@wweskywalker]

Now Henry reminds me of Joffrey.

[@babushkathe14th]

True, Joffrey Baratheon's stupid decision to execute Ned Stark was false.

[@calliefinck6275]

Henry is probably thinking at this point, "Why can't you just go away?" or "Could you just shut up!"

[@ILoveArt2022]

Ruairi he's so freaking HOT!!!! Idc what anyone says but he is 😍😍😍😍😍

[@babsgrayson8432]

She and Sarah Bolger (Mary Tudor in The Tudors) look alike.

[@cathylanders6377]

I know right 😊

[@sadikasayeed8722]

in fact all of henry's sons die at some point or other no matter who the mother was. legal and illegal male children of henry the 8th die and only the daughetrs survived. who is to blame here?

[@janefelix3821]

Henry VIII did have a son outlive him, though very sickly. Edward VI took over after his father and lasted about 6 years, passing away at 15 without an heir. He was succeeded by Mary I, who lasted about 4 years and then Elizabeth I for 44 years. None of them produced an heir, end of the Tudors and Henry VIII's line, and only Mary I married.

[@rkzedits3882]

Nobody's fault... He couldn't help it anymore than she could.

[@sadikasayeed8722]

@@janefelix3821 all sickly sons who died

[@nenisguevaragomez8122]

McLeod syndrome of Henry, the only boys he had , died very young.

[@Darienlover999]

Is that the same coat Maria Doyle Kennedy’s Katherine of Aragon wore in The Tudors?

[@dreamsteddybearsmaster]

Who knows maybe LOL

[@Catalina-Winemixer]

There’s a website where you can see shared wardrobes between period pieces. It’s incredibly common.

[@sherilynapalla9047]

Henry VIII pressures Catherine while he(his blood) is the reason why they cannot produce a male heir.

[@babushkathe14th]

True!

[@babushkathe14th]

True!

[@PettyShabazz]

In Henry's defense the war of the roses tore england part. He was Just the second Tudor. Without a male heir it would of ended. Between TBI and the patriarchy it destroyed Catherine amd Henry's relationship.

[@janefelix3821]

The Tudor line would pass to his daughter; however, any heir from his daughters would have taken their father's name so unless his daughter married a Tudor, that name would not last. That is what Mary Queen of Scots did, marry a cousin with the same family name, Stuart, so her son continued the Stuart reign in Scotland and brought it to England. In the end Henry VIII's son died so young, 15, that he never produced an heir, plus he was very sickly.

[@PettyShabazz]

@@janefelix3821 indeed. If im not mistaken, Arthur was the only other son of elizabeth and henry vii. Unless he found some obscure Tudor somewhere else.

[@janefelix3821]

@@PettyShabazz It may be hard to find. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales died at 15, he was the first husband of Catherine of Aragon as he was the heir to the English Throne. Henry VII was an only child. His uncle, Jasper Tudor only married once and had no children, he was the uncle who raised the future King Henry VII.

[@nenisguevaragomez8122]

@@janefelix3821 I heard that Henry VIII even thought of a wedding between his daughter Mary and his bastard son Henry Fitzroy, but the Pope told him it was too much.

[@angel5894]

that's so stupid...like she can choose whether to deliver a boy or girl and in modern science we finally learnt that the baby's gender depends entirely on the father's sperm...so it's actually entirely his fault

[@via-anghelmagahum2586]

He was fearful for the succession in a way too. The last woman to hold the throne Empress Matilda went terribly wrong. House Tudor was still young and needed security. Compared to Valois or Trastamara in France and Spain they were inexperienced and young. He needed to leave behind a son to inherit to continue the line of Tudor so his father and grandmother’s work to win the throne from the old, wise to a degree and respected dynasty of Plantagenet that some still longed for

[@catalinacafe5746]

Catherine was like another mother to Henry. I personally think Henry was not normal in the mind like he was deeply and subconsciously jealous of his dad and brother or something.

[@ginalopez9047]

@catalinacafe5746 Really? What fantasy world are living in Elizabeth was no saint he killed more people than Mary did if it wasn’t for Mary Elizabeth and other female monarchs wouldn’t not have been queen Mary was a badass I don’t excuse what she done but Elizabeth shouldn’t be exude either I swear you act like she walks on water or something lol

[@kethcup]

Such a sad story to want to tell.

[@missmacy1805]

I just find it amusing how he thinks women can choose what gender the baby is. Imma just be like "hey babe ya know what I'm gonna give birth to girl. Ive decided."

[@yourfavmiaaa._7846]

who account can I use to watch this please y’all would be my hero !!

[@rycoli]

I doubt Catherine would ever challenge H8. She was brought up to honor her husband and king. Princesses married who they were told, she knew that since the time she was little girl.

[@laylaphan7095]

She was isabella of aragon's daughter after all....

[@GoldLove21]

What do you think she did when he asked for an annulment?

[@amatulfulani6390]

Not really. She came from a warrior queen who ruled in her own right…so she still wasn’t a regular submissive queen. She challenged him when he wanted to file for divorce. She didn’t agree to it. She had a headstrong personality.

[@amatulfulani6390]

Uh… she was the daughter of Isabella of Castile, a warrior queen. She was still raised to be a strong queen, not a regular, meek one. Her parents were co-rulers and she rejected Henry’s request for divorce. She didn’t submit to it. So, she did challenge him in her own way.

[@ohiogirl5503]

IMHO, this is the wimpiest depiction of Henry ever. He acts like a whiny little boy, not the king of a great empire.

[@dreamsteddybearsmaster]

He was in a way.

[@lexigrimhaive]

It's CHARLES Brandon, CHARLES!! It's MARGARET Tudor, MARGARET!! And Bessie Blount was very properly provided for. She and Henry Fitzroy wanted for nothing.

[@dreamsteddybearsmaster]

They had nicknames... like Henry used to be called Harry. So I don't know what you're complaining about... Meg and Charlie are diminutives of Margaret and Charles, very common ones.

[@lexigrimhaive]

Dreams & Teddy Bears Show me one historical source that refers to any of them as a nickname other than Henry. There will be none.

[@naileaslefttoe1801]

@@lexigrimhaive There is no proof that they had nicknames at all. However this was adapted from a book series so we kind of expected it to be historical inaccurate.

[@dreamsteddybearsmaster]

@@lexigrimhaive Why do you need proof? You would expect private stuff of their wouldn't have survived the ages and as someone else pointed out this may not be historically accurate and whose to say they didn't use nicknames? Like some people know the current Queen had "Lillibet" or something similar sounding and some don't. And on another note, if more than one person in the family had the same name diminuatives were a way to distinguish one from the other. Hence why Henry VIII was "Harry" as his father was Henry VII and why Margaret Tudor could have been "Meg" as her Grandmother was also a Margaret.

[@dreamsteddybearsmaster]

@@lexigrimhaive Also why Meg could be Meg is because of Margaret Pole, her Lady Aunt/ Mother's cousin who was also a Margaret but known as "Maggie". Are you a historian BTW and do you specialise in this area? Unless you are you shouldn't be so dismissive of things you yourself have not studied and apparent facts that are true. Its all speculation. I am speculating but I am not dismissing possibilties because I am not a historian or student in this area

[@girlboss8498]

only watching for ruairi😁

[@RaffertyMBTI]

They’re both doing foreign accents.

[@robynsrecs2183]

do-does he expect her to have a boy on the spot and hand it over?

[@AmethystEyes]

God his haircut is so bad, his original one was so much better.

[@calliefinck6275]

when does he finally get to notice Anne? Someone in his mind younger, more beautiful, and definitely more obedient. Although Anne failed to give him a son also, she gave him one of the greatest monarchs this world has ever seen, all Catherine did was give birth to one of the worst and most psychotic monarchs the world has ever seen

[@raisyaalanda245]

Well elizabeth also executed catholics during her reign, her victim was 10 times more than Mary ever did in her reign. Ooh never forget she also kill Mary Queen of Scot, took Mary's boy James and USE him as her succesor to secure her reign. she was a heartless woman who took a child from his mother. Mary Tudor would never do that because she know exactly what is it like to separate from your mother in such cruel way. Instead, if Mary of Scot came to England and beging for help to reunited with her son, i think Mary Tudor wpuld happy to help. None of them are saint sooo

[@transfemprincess]

I would say Mary was more troubled then psychotic. And while Elizabeth’s reign is referred to as a literal Golden Age, I have no doubt that she was just as problematic as any other monarch in English History.

[@dreamsteddybearsmaster]

But unlike Anne everyone loved Catherine. They are not their daughters

[@raisyaalanda245]

@@dreamsteddybearsmaster right i mean who wouldn't love her. She was a true Royal with dignity, daughter of the most powerfull ruler in the world in that time. Born and prepared to be queen, she was a ruler who serve her people, she care for her people. She understand that being royals is to serve their people. And to be honest she was a better ruler than Henry ever did.

[@dreamsteddybearsmaster]

@@raisyaalanda245 Exactly but hey she was disposed of nevertheless unfortunately

[@Pdmc-vu5gj]

Looks terrible

[@elizabethfigueroa6159]

God this is terrible, why or why does she do that terrible accent?? Honestly like if you can’t sound close to the dialect then it’s best to just leave it as is. We know who Catherine was and her lineage, she does a huge disservice to the real Catherine.

[@melissaherbst8300]

But could you do a better accent? Her accent is just fine. I can only imagine how hard she (Charlotte) must have worked to get that.

[@elizabethfigueroa6159]

@@melissaherbst8300 what does that have to do with anything, this isn’t a question of whether I can do it or not, she is getting paid to to act meaning she can at least have studied the dialect better and practiced, into season 2 and surly she got some criticism for it, with this at hand she could have practiced and put more effort into the role.

[@melissaherbst8300]

@@elizabethfigueroa6159 Well you are insulting her performance and being rude without taking into account if you could do it yourself. Her accent is fine and her overall acting is good. And you are being rude towards Charlotte Hope. So many people insult people's abilities when it comes to anything without taking into account if they could also do it.

[@elizabethfigueroa6159]

@@melissaherbst8300 let me reiterate this fact, when HBO Chernobyl was made the director and perhaps even the actors were relieved to not having to do a botched accent, why? Because it would have stolen from some of the authenticity and the actors were just as relieved to keep their own English accents or accents, opting to go more for telling the story as even the director realized that if the audience had heard a botched Ukrainian accent it would have sounded silly and probably even diluted the effect of the story and it’s true because as an audience at least in my case My ears cringed as I’m Listening to the horrible accent she is trying to do that I almost don’t focus on what she is saying, furthermore I’m distracted by the fact that it’s clearly evident she is struggling to maintain this accent, which hampers her acting.

[@elizabethfigueroa6159]

@@melissaherbst8300 how am I being rude, being rude is outright making a crass remark, this is my opinion and I gave a valid reason why I don’t like it, I am giving a critical remark without being crass or vulgar, and if being frank is considered rude then the problem lies with you. At this point I will consider that you are trolling so...