Give Me an Answer -

[@ryankmyles3922]

You can see the joy Cliffe has listening to his son teach! Blessings brothers

[@Trialbyfire9]

You took the words right out my brain , what a Joy to watch cliff has a great smile (:

[@jasminecolon6563]

Cliffe, I watch your videos almost everyday! Thank you for answering so many hard questions! God bless! 💛

[@benjaminvilla7601]

Same

[@MarioNotLuigi]

I CAN FINALLY SEE THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STEPS! LOL Nice camera shot! @15:42

[@davidresendiz7989]

that's what I said

[@ginasand1378]

😂😂😂 good one

[@ericscaillet2232]

Periodically throughout the various episodes there is sometime a quick 180/360 deg shot.

[@SpaceEagle93]

Now this questioner is the type of interaction these men are trying to have! What an amazing guy asking questions, he isn’t taking anything personal, listens to and understands but if he doesn’t asks for clarification. Such a joy.

[@avismore3938]

Seems more comfortable and confident than when he first started speaking publicly ..

[@destinfarr]

Amen! He is coming soon! Maranatha! ✝️🕊️

[@dalehorn8614]

Twins, Tammy and Tommy, are both at Grandpa’s birthday. An aunt, who could not be at the party ask each one individually, “tell me about the party.” There is no way their stories will match but no one will question if they were at the party or if their stories were made up.

[@ericscaillet2232]

It is nice to see father and son, sort of holy.

[@mchappy7185]

Thought the same thing.

[@michaelbabbitt3837]

"Wrestlng wiith" : Wrestling with God = the meaning of 'Israel'.

[@TizShak]

I Love This

[@paulwilfridhunt]

We know that God who says that many are called and few are chosen is also being absolutely fair and just. This means that His choosing must be based upon justice otherwise it wouldn’t be fair. God is fair and just. It’s clear that He doesn’t call all. But he does call many. And of the many, only few are chosen. He would like to choose all but not all are worthy. There are some that He doesn’t call such as the Pharisees who jeered at Him telling Him they would believe who He said He was if He came down off His cross. It’s therefore probably ok to surmise that those whom God doesn’t call are the seriously wicked ones; Such as those who knew of the resurrection, because they paid off the guards to say the disciples stole the body away, while they were sleeping. But we who are “the called” know that to be in the category of the few who are chosen, we obviously have to be worthy. We know that this must mean leading lives of complete obedience to God. Not 75% obedience or 95% obedience but 100% obedience to God. What does Jesus say. “ if you love me keep my commandments” Who gave the commandments to Moses? God did, right? Who is God? Jesus is God. Therefore who gave the commandments to Moses? Jesus did. In revelations on 3 separate occasions it speaks about those who keep the commandments of God. One of the commandments is to keep the 7th day sabbath. Are you doing it? No? Do you think you should be chosen? Revelation 12:17 King James Version (KJV) 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 14:12 King James Version (KJV) 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 22:14 King James Version (KJV) 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

[@jessicarainsford7609]

Not a single one of us are worthy. No one. Just need to humble and accept Christ’s blood. Not anything I’ve done or anyone else. Don’t get too caught up on a singular verse. The overarching message is that Jesus paid the debt we owed. Saved by Grace through Faith

[@knxcholx]

@jessicarainsford7609 Calvinists think they're special. I swear, I saw one try to say they "were always saved. I just didn't know it". The arrogance 🙄

[@JamesRichardWiley]

I am the eternal Cosmos in the human form. That's my truth.

[@Thirty3rty]

Boy, that handshacke at 22:22 killed me

[@oscar1748]

After heard and watched him through the vid im not surprised.

[@2HungerandThirst]

@askcliffe who is this Russian philosopher Stuart keeps mentioning? I've heard the philosopher mentioned a few times and cannot figure out who Stuart is speaking about!?

[@robfield-n7v]

Numbers 6:24-26, Deuteronomy 28, Joshua 1:7-8 Matthew 6:9-15 & 12:31-32, Romans 10:9-13, 11 Peter 3:9,

[@giauscaesar8047]

When I was an atheist I used to come on this channel to enter into debates with christians. However after a period of time I began to become disillusioned with atheism as practised in the west as it's underpinnings appear to grounded in socialism. Atheism is just boring Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins & Dennett, people I looked up to in the past I couldn't care less about.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

Giaus Caesar good for you. How long ago did you give up your atheism?

[@giauscaesar8047]

I've just turned my back on it atheist's always appeared to be to willing & eager to attack Christians however when it came to Islam they were pretty quite.@@paulwilfridhunt

[@paulwilfridhunt]

Giaus Caesar how old are you?

[@giauscaesar8047]

31@@paulwilfridhunt

[@paulwilfridhunt]

Giaus Caesar That’s young. I’m 71. I wish I could have turned to Christ at your age. I didn’t have the guts. I was more interested in getting the approval of those who were perishing than getting God’s approval.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

I personally don’t think it’s necessary in every case to be a bit skeptical. I have never ever doubted the existence of God. Although I do know why some do doubt. However I don’t think it’s wise to entertain the notions of atheism because it can hook you. And that’s quite an interesting story.

[@JohnCashin]

I agree, perhaps not in the way you mean but I agree that it's not necessary to be skeptical in every case and I'm certainly not, however, it does very much depend on what I am being asked to accept on trust, for example (I think I mentioned this to you before in previous discussions) if you told me you own a cat, I wouldn't be skeptical about that and ask you to prove you really own a cat, Paul lol, I would happily take your word for it WITHOUT you having to prove it to me but if you claimed that your cat is actually a divine being who can heal the sick and raise the dead, then I would ask you to prove it. I'm sure I don't need to explain to you why I don't want evidence for the first claim and want evidence for the second but I will explain anyway just to make absolutely sure you and others understand me here, the first claim (the I've got a cat claim) was an ordinary, mundane, everyday claim that wouldn't have any impact on my life or the rest of the world if it was true, but the second claim, on the other hand (the my cat is a divine being with the power to do miracles claim), would have MASSIVE implications on me and all of us if it were true, that is why I would want a lot more evidence to back up your claim if you told me that, with me so far? Now, apply that above to the Bible, the Bible makes certain claims, some are everyday mundane claims like the first one, things like 'Sarah gave birth to a son' etc, okay, fine, I will accept those kind so stories as likely to be true, or at least, I have no reason to question that they could be true, but others though, are claims that are like the second one, divinity, miracles, walking on water, rising from the dead etc, hence I want a lot more evidence to support them, I know according to the Bible, Jesus said "blessed are those who have not seen but believe" when a skeptical Thomas accepted that he was the risen Jesus after seeing the nail marks on his hands etc, now, I don't know whether or not this really happened (that's the problem) but if it was true, Thomas was actually quite sensible to be skeptical and ask for evidence for such a big claim, Jesus apparently encouraging people just to believe such a claim without seeing any convincing evidence seems pretty BAD advice to me.

[@miltonnavaia]

@@JohnCashin Im sure Jesus wasn't encouraging people to believe in anything without any convincing evidence since Thomas already had enough EVIDENCE to believe that Jesus had really risen from the dead like for example, the testimony of the other disciples, and most importantly what Jesus himself had previously prophesied in many occasions about his death and resurrection. (And others like his body having disappeared, the empty tomb and so on) - so Thomas didn't lack any EVIDENCE that pointed to Jesus having been risen from the dead. He lacked faith. Instead he wanted a PROOF. He wanted to SEE with his own eye and TOUCH with his own fingers. “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.” It is for this LACK OF FAITH in what all the evidences pointed (which made him demand for proofs) that Jesus rebuked him saying “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

[@JohnCashin]

@@miltonnavaia You might be sure of what he meant but your certainty is based on a presumption that he must be right and that he must be divine, I am seeing what he says as someone who doubts this, so I see no reason to be sure what he meant when he said that and other things, I can only go by his words, the lack of clarity is a big part of the problem, even Christians thrmselves disagree over what Jesus was supposed to have said, I'm afraid there's a good reason for the Bible being called "the book of multiple choice".

[@miltonnavaia]

@@JohnCashin you are right. My certainty is based on a presumption that he is right and divine. But that presumption is based on facts and strong evidences. It has facts and evidences to support it. It is not a groundless presumption. Facts and evidences that point to the existence of Jesus Christ, and to his death and resurrection, and the fulfillment of his prophecies which gives him credit - at least enough credit for me to believe that he is truly who he claimed to be

[@JohnCashin]

@@miltonnavaia Good for you if you have been given enough to be convinced, but I see no such sufficient evidence I'm afraid, at best there is ARGUABLE evidence, I'll give that much but nothing solid enough for me to be certain, let me ask you this question and I would appreciate an honest answer, if Jesus really rose from the dead and he is alive and well today, would it be unreasonable for someone to expect him to be able to show himself in front of their eyes like it says he did in the Bible? Because that is alll I am asking for, if he did it then, why not now?

[@curiousgeorge555]

It baffles me beyond comprehension how so many modern minds can't see how simple the answer to the question: " Is this true; unless you can scientifically prove it, it's not true"? The answer is painfully obvious. It is incredibly easy to demonstrate how false the statement is.

[@lastjkid]

He mentions religion being "invented" which is an interesting idea, and totally possible. But if Christianity ends up being the truth, then it's not religion that was invented, but atheism.

[@JohnCashin]

If Christianity turns out to be true I'll happily give you that one on a silver platter my friend but with all due respect, that's a whopping great big 'IF', we can look at 'ifs' all day long if you like, let's see, what 'if' Islam turns out to be the truth? What 'if' deism turns out to be the truth? What 'if' Buddhism turns out to be the truth? What 'if' Rastafarianism turns out to be the truth?....well I guess you can see my point, right?

[@paulwilfridhunt]

John Cashin Hello John, this is a tough subject isn’t it. But let’s have a crack at it. You and Tom and Rover are in a state of great disbelief by comparison to us the believers. And whilst you say you want to believe, and I’m sure what you are saying is true, the question is this Tom. What good would it do you if you did believe in God’s existence if you aren’t prepared to show the fruits of repentance. And John if you guys aren’t going to be 100% repentant to God and be in a state of full surrender to Him then what would be the advantage of Him revealing Himself to you. If you saw the power of God clearly manifested in such a way that you realised He existed, would you suddenly fall to your knees and beg God to forgive you. Would you say “my Lord and my God I will love thee, obey thee and eat humble pie until the cows come home” You might think that you’d do this gladly but maybe you wouldn’t do it. But John God knows what you’ll do and what you won’t do. Therefore let me say this. If you’re never going to fully repent, God will see to it that you don’t believe. Does God want people in His church who are not fully surrendered to Him and not born again, that are unteachable, proud and boastful, filled to the brim with crazy obstructive heresies? Of course God doesn’t want this. The church has enough difficulties as it is with odd bods throwing their weight around but spend some time on their knees, but they are getting there. However John, this is the reason why God keeps guys like you guys out of the church, because with your lack of faithfulness you’d be like crazed foxes in the hen house. God doesn’t need that and neither do we. The church is for this who are truly faithful to God. All who are faithful to God are welcome in His church. You think everything will be jake if you can just believe in God’s existence. No no John. You can still go down the tubes believing in God’s existence. What’s really required to inherit salvation is a contrite heart. If you can say that upon the revelation of God’s existence you will be swimming in contriteness then you’ll be ok if it’s true that you’d really be this way. You might think you’d be this way. But would you? I presume that the Pharisees who jeered at Christ telling Him that if He came down off His cross they would believe, actually thought that they would believe. But if you don’t know better John, I do. No way were they ever going to believe. What about you guys? Like I said I’m not John the Baptist but I’ll come to the UK and baptise you 3 guys if you’re prepared to surrender to God and fully repent.

[@JohnCashin]

@@paulwilfridhunt I'm not saying I definitely will be committed to this being if he proved his existence to me, I told you that myself before Paul, I told you that I don't know for sure what my response will be if he showed himself to me because he hasn't, it would be dishonest of me to try and claim for sure what I would do in the event of something that hasn't happened yet, unless he does it, how can I possibly say for definite? I can only tell you what I think I am more LIKELY to do, if he does then I can say for absolutely certain but it would be impossible for me to be committed to a hypothetical God unless he does convince me he is real, convincing me he exists would mean there might be a CHANCE that I would be committed, without that....no chance, you couldn't possibly be faithful to someone unless you were first convinced that they exist, that is the very first step, agreed? There's no point telling me that I have to be "100% repentant" to a being that I am not convinced exists first and then "he will prove to me he exists", that makes no sense at all, I can only be 100% committed to someone or something when I am sure they are real and if I am wrong and this being does exist and he is actually preventing me from believing he exists because I am not going to be faithful to him, like you claim, that makes even less sense. Of course, I won't be faithful to him if I am not convinced he exists, that wouldn't resolve the problem, in fact, that IS the problem, I'm not saying that if God showed himself to me right now I would obey him without question but I am saying that if he doesn't, I definitely won't because I can't commit to someone I don't believe in the existence of, proving his existence to me will MAXIMISE the chance of me doing whatever he wants, not showing himself will guarantee I won't. It's not about what I will definitely do or not do, this is about what I am more LIKELY to do in a given situation, am I more likely to 100% commit to a being that I believe exists or one that I am not convinced exists?? If you agree (which you should) that it is more likely that I will commit to a being that I am sure exists than one that I doubt exists, then now you will understand why I am asking for convincing evidence for this being's existence first and when I say evidence, I don't mean "look at this wonderful universe there has to be someone behind it" type evidence, I mean this being actually showing himself to me, then we will see what I will do, at the moment we can't see what I will do, you can easily claim "you won't John, God knows you won't that's why he won't show himself", I can easily claim "I might if he shows himself", your word against mine and there's no point telling me "God knows" anyway if I don't believe he exists, until he shows himself and confirms what you are claiming, it's your word against mine here.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

John Cashin Here is the thing John. I think your statement saying that you don’t know what your response to God would be, is actually a sign of your unreasonable rebellion. If you can’t say, that upon the revelation of God and His obvious greatness along with the realisation that without His death on the cross for you, you would be right down the tubes, and if you realise all this is true and upon this realisation you are too proud to bend the knee in grateful adoration, you have problems. What are you compared to God. YOU ARE NOTHING. But because you can’t handle being nothing you are jealous of your maker instead of letting things be what they are. Do you not think it strange that me and others like me have no trouble believing in God but you struggle with it so much you give a new meaning to the word struggle? Does this in itself not tell you a story? Belief come from God given to those whom He chooses and such choosing is based upon their innate capacity to repent and follow God which you give no evidence of being able to do even if God revealed Himself to you in the most satisfactory of ways. If you could say yes yes yes you would 100% repent and love and obey God if He exists then that provisional sincere prayer is sufficient for God to reveal Himself to you in a most satisfactory way. But because you don’t do this, and maybe you never will, God will never be found by you, and that’s probably the outcome you unwittingly prefer. You don’t seem to realise that yes you can be something compared to the animals in the animal kingdom and to a lesser extent your fellow human beings but don’t kid yourself. You may not like it but you and I are absolutely nothing compared to God and herein lies your problem. You can’t handle being nothing compared to God. It’s your choice John and you have chosen but it’s not a good choice. But John maybe this is your fate and destiny. Maybe this lack of inclination to be a believer like me and thousands of others like me is something you decided a long time ago not to do and therefore John if this is the case God will not choose you and give you the required belief.

[@JohnCashin]

@@paulwilfridhunt Let me show you what you've done here Paul and what you have done I'm afraid it suggests to me self-delusion and dishonesty, in your post before you said to me and I quote...... "If you saw the power of God clearly manifested in such a way that you realised He existed, would you suddenly fall to your knees and beg God to forgive you. Would you say my Lord and my God I will love thee, obey thee and eat humble pie until the cows come home You might think that you’d do this gladly but maybe you wouldn’t do it"......so you see Paul, YOU.....YOU said maybe I wouldn't, it was YOUR words I was going along with. All I did was agree with you, yes, I could have argued with you there and said "no Paul if God showed himself to me right now I'd give him 100%" but would you believe me if I said that? Probably not, which is why you made that statement in the first place and that is why I gave you that Paul, as well as because I can only say for sure after something has been done what I will do about it. What you have done now Paul is yet another tap dance around it by now claiming that because I said I wasn't sure what I would do (when you yourself said the same thing before), that is why God won't show himself, you made the suggestion first and then when I went along with you, you now use that to claim that it is a "sign of my rebellion", well, I think I can understand why you do this, it's a case of anything to avoid looking at the POSSIBILITY that maybe this God you believe in isn't real, I guess?

[@knxcholx]

1:06 🤣

[@quicksilverjames1459]

This guy has a strange way of speaking trying to sound intellectual but good conversation anyway . I like how cliff debunks the concept of. If you can't show it you don't know it. The Scientism that athiests like Aron Ra use as gospel .peace

[@davidresendiz7989]

i think that is his son!!! God bless them

[@paulwilfridhunt]

I think he’s great. I love his voice.

[@gollumgollum]

That would a misinterpretation of the two statements. What "If you can't show it, you don't know it" means you need to demonstrate/provide evidence for something in order for it to be considered true. 100% correct. What Cliff is saying is "If you can't prove it scientifically, it's not true. Prove that to me scientifically". He's correct. There are things that can not be proven scientifically that can still be true. But Cliff didn't debunk anything since we are talking about two completely different things which you don't understand. But that's fine I hope the explanation was helpful. I always chuckle when theists use the word "Scientism". It's so cute. Please keep it up, we love it.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

JB The will of God is such that He only chooses some to be saved although He wants all to be saved. He will only save those whom He knows will become extraordinarily obedient to Him with unfailing gratitude. He is going to take the believers on a never ending journey of development of understanding God along with developing within the soul the characteristics of God. And a soul without this grateful obedience is disqualified as being far too defective for the journey. Those who do not intrinsically have a repentant heart He doesn’t choose. That means that if the soul is one that will never elect to be fully repentant to God, then He allows that soul to permanently maintain their reprobate heart of opposition to Him, in whichever format that might be represented, with atheism being one of them.

[@gollumgollum]

@@paulwilfridhunt That had nothing to do with the questions at hand but since you brought it up... Can you demonstrate what you just said to be true? What evidence do you have that what you just said is true? Don't quote the bible because then you would have to demonstrate that is true. Plus it would be circular.

[@fishouttawtr]

Hmmm...swoon theory! Kinda makes me think of Elvis presely ! Though He died in the 70s, people still today claim to have seen him! Some insist he's existing in the identity of a certain person who I won't mention! Food for thought!

[@jessicarainsford7609]

What are you even on about?

[@tanielalatu6038]

Please spell to me this Russian philosopher's name

[@hatersgotohell627]

I think Stuart doesn't believe. I know his father does

[@hablaf12]

Are we watching the same video?

[@ericscaillet2232]

And how would you know that just by watching videos.

[@boltrooktwo]

The love of God is manifest in His wrath. A being that loves will have wrath toward us destroying ourselves or using our life for destructive purposes otherwise they would not be loving and be evidently apathetic.

[@liltwix3010]

Slavery has existed since the garden of Eden. They were like dogs on a leash led astray.

[@j2mfp78]

FIRST!!!!!!

[@jeffrey6618]

Would you talk about a black racist shooter heck no you wouldnt

[@strikerstrick3478]

Llll

[@jeremybenson5782]

"Unless you can scientifically prove it's not true." I don't think that's philosophy, but you have to accept God's evidence as evidence to prove certain things. The bible says "Science falsely so called." So there must be true science.

[@gollumgollum]

What is god's evidence which is evidence to prove certain things?

[@jeremybenson5782]

@@gollumgollum Well God would be evidence of God. I suppose we could say divination, like a Ouija board, is evidence of spirits or demons. Although we're not supposed to touch those things. That last one wouldn't be God's evidence, lol. I'm just throwing that out there. The best example would be God himself.

[@gollumgollum]

@@jeremybenson5782 God can't be evidence of god. The same way that unicorns cant be evidence of unicorns. You would need to demonstrate that unicorns actually exist, you can't just assert it. Also a Oujia board is not evidence of anything. Unless you can conjure a demon with it. If you can I'm really interested. I collect Ouija boards and other occult objects. Never once saw a demon or spirit.

[@jeremybenson5782]

@@gollumgollum You don't make sense. Lets put it to a simple question. And I'm asking you this personally. If God existed, what would be the evidence of God? Because you just said to most illogical thing ever. God could not be evidence of God. I will mention that God has given us a lot of evidence. Isaiah 42:8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. "Also a Oujia board is not evidence of anything. Unless you can conjure a demon with it. If you can I'm really interested. I collect Ouija boards and other occult objects. Never once saw a demon or spirit." Well I didn't collect them. I used them, for years, and I know what they're about. So you've either never used one, or you're just being coy and dumb.

[@gollumgollum]

@@jeremybenson5782 *You don't make sense. Lets put it to a simple question. And I'm asking you this personally* What did I say that you found confusing? You said god would be evidence of god. My reply was you can't just state X is evidence of X. I gave you an example, it seems you didn't understand. Let me try again. Suppose I said I have a pet fire breathing dragon. You asked for evidence. And my response was my pet fire breathing dragon is evidence of itself. Do you now believe I have a pet fire breathing dragon?

[@boltrooktwo]

Why is non-denominational Christianity, that has no prophets or granted authority from God the true church and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that has prophets and witnesses of granted authority not the true church?

[@andrewunthank3521]

They are not the true church as their teachings are heretical.

[@boltrooktwo]

@@andrewunthank3521 Heretical according to the philosophies of men not God.

[@andrewunthank3521]

@@boltrooktwo They clearly contradict scripture.

[@boltrooktwo]

@@andrewunthank3521 They don’t, they only contradict the creeds and philosophies of men, the doctrine of the church is more consistent. Contradicting the Nicene creed which removes any meaning of the word father and son from the Abrahamic culture it originates from. The council and edict of Emperor Justinian who made it heretical to teach of a pre-mortal life of man which was taught by Origen of Alexandria and others. The whole plan of salvation and image of God obscured by false traditions into immaterial and “completely other.” Revelation 3:21 “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”

[@bonnie43uk]

Good discussion. I would take issue with something that Stuart says regarding the forgiveness of Dylann Roof, the Charleston shooter by one of the mothers who tragically lost her son at the hands of Dylann Roof, she graciously forgave him which in an incredible thing to do in the circumstances. But Stuart said "If there's not a judgement day, that forgiveness of the killer makes absolutely no sense". You do not need belief in a God to find that forgiving someone will bring you great inner peace. As an atheist, I do not believe in a judgement day or any kind of afterlife, but I know from personal experience that forgiveness is an amazing release of bad emotion and anguish. If that mother who forgave Dylann Roof found it helped her in her grief for her son, and I have no doubt it did, then whether she believes in Jesus Christ or not, forgiveness is a great healer. Confucius the Chinese philosopher who lived hundreds of years before Jesus was preaching forgiveness to people, it's an amazing feeling to forgive. And I'm sure it's been around even before Confucius.

[@paulwilfridhunt]

bonnie43uk It’s a pity that you don’t believe in a judgment day Tom and maybe it’s best that you don’t. If you did believe in a judgment day you could very well be a wreck thinking about it. You would be thinking “I have spurned God and hey that’s probably not going to be good news.” But you won’t think that Tom because you’ve elected to believe there is no judgment day. Yes Tom, you keep believing there’s no judgment day and you’ll be a happier man. God could have arranged for those who were to be washed away in the flood to be miserable but hey Tom they were happy. God wasn’t adverse to them having some happiness, a small compensation, before they got washed away. And Tom if you’re going to be going down the tubes God doesn’t want you to be miserable, therefore He is happy, and so am I happy that you are getting some happiness, by falsely believing there is no judgment day. Jesus called it separating the sheep from the goats. Be happy Tom if that’s your thing. But count the cost.

[@bonnie43uk]

As I said Paul, you don't need to believe in a God to feel the benefit of forgiving someone, it's not as Cliffe's son said , "if there is no judgement at the end of your life, then her forgiving the killer of her son in cold blood makes no sense".. I absolutely disagree, , genuine forgiveness ( whether you believe in God or have no belief whatsoever, can bring immense comfort and release of anguish and pain. Forgiveness is not solely the domain of Christianity, it's been around for hundreds and hundreds of years before Christianity. That was the point of my comment. You didn't mention forgiveness once in your reply Paul. My comment was regarding the act of forgiveness. You seem intent on talking about me not submitting to God, that's got nothing to do with forgiveness. Be happy Paul if that's your thing. You need to move on.

[@bonnie43uk]

Absolutely Niko, forgiveness is a very powerful human trait, when you've been hurt or betrayed, bitterness can eat you up from the inside and change your character into someone who is burning up inside with hatred, it can destroy you. I don't personally feel any closer to God, I don't believe in heaven or hell, but you are free to believe that.

[@kevinwatson7221]

@bonnie43uk Hey, it's been a long time since we've had a discussion, and though I don't have time for the long discussions that we used to have, I'd like to address your response to Stuart. First, I agree to a certain extent with your concern. Christians are commanded to forgive those who wrong them, but this concept is not unique to Christianity. As you said, atheists, Confucians, and all sorts of other people could forgive those who wrong them. The difference, I think (and I think that this is was Stuart's point), is that for Christians, there is a firm foundation to forgiveness. As you said, forgiveness is helpful in releasing negative emotions and anguish. But for Christians, forgiveness is based in the love of God shown through Jesus Christ. Not only is it commanded, but it is the same love God has shown to us expressed through us to another. On that basis, I do think that it is easier (though of course still difficult) for Christians to forgive one another. Second, and more importantly, I think that Stuart somewhat conflates two different concepts of forgiveness. When we talk about forgiving others, person to person, then we're typically talking about personal forgiveness, something like releasing the anger that we might feel toward a person and choosing not to resent them for wronging us to hold it against them. That's important and incredible in its own right, but this is not the forgiveness of God. If God's forgiveness were merely personal in this way, then it wouldn't be just, since God, as divine judge, must, if He is to be just, punish those who do wrong. If forgiveness from God's perspective were merely releasing anger and other negative emotions, then Jesus' sacrifice isn't necessary. Rather, we must understand the forgiveness of God in a legal sense, not a personal or emotional sense. In a legal sense, I have committed a crime, you might say, by sinning. I am guilty in an objective sense, so I must be punished. God forgives in that He wipes away that sin and my guilt entirely. If He is to also be just in doing this, then the sin must be dealt with, so Jesus voluntarily takes the punishment that I deserved. In this way, God's forgiveness is a lot like debt forgiveness. When your debtor forgives your debt, he doesn't just get rid of the negative emotions concerning the fact that you haven't paid your debt. Your debt is simply gone. And in the case of Christ, the debt is wiped away because Jesus paid it voluntarily! This concept is called penal substitution, and if you read the Book of Romans, you will see it on display. William Lane Craig also defends penal substitution, and here is a lecture that he gives about the biblical basis for penal substitution: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3_Xi5mXebqtf8k. In this sense, it is absolutely true that forgiveness and wrath and judgement are inextricably linked. When God forgives us, His justice has been satisfied. The incredible thing about the cross is that it shows us how two concepts (which are everywhere in the Old Testament and are seemingly incompatible), the justice and mercy of God, can be brought together and both satisfied. When the mother of the victim of the Charleston shooting says that God will forgive him if he repents and believes in Christ, then you can see how God's justice and forgiveness are linked. I hope that this lengthy answer helps to address your concern. It's good to see you still active in watching this material!

[@bonnie43uk]

Hey Kevin, long time no see, always good to hear from you, we had some mighty long conversations in the past, it's good we can agree to a degree about the act of forgiving, whether it be as a Christian, or anyone else. My main issue with Stuarts comment was when he said that without Judgement day, "forgiveness is a complete waste". I absolutely disagree with him on that point. I know from personal experience just how much it can unburden a person of intense pent up anger and frustration. Make no mistake, what that Christian woman did in forgiving Dylann Roof was an incredible act of forgiveness. But it also opens up other questions, I'm sure in the past this would have been one of my issues with Christianity that we would have spoken of. Lets take this Charleston gun massacre as an example. Lets say, due to her incredible compassion in forgiving Dylann Roof, it opens him up to Christianity, and, amazingly, he himself becomes a born again Christian, and he asks Jesus to forgive him, as I understand it, so long as he is genuine in his plea for forgiveness and he is also 100% genuine in his acceptance of Jesus Christ as his Savior, Jesus *will* forgive him as I understand it. This throws up several questions. . Where is the Justice of a mass murderer spending eternity in Heaven, where is the justice for the families he gunned down? Now lets also suppose one of the victims he killed in cold blood was not a believer, and he didn't accept Jesus as his savior, for not accepting Jesus as his savior, as I understand it, he will spend eternity in Hell according to what many Christians believe. So, in essence, the mass murderer is spending eternity in heaven, and the innocent Guy he killed, well, he's spending eternity in Hell. Do you not see a problem here Kevin. Now you may say to me, "well, the guy he killed wasn't clean of sin, he committed sins on earth". Well, ok, it's fair to say that all of us commit wrongdoings in life, me included, but for the average person, heh, I will even include myself, none of us has done anything as remotely evil and disgusting as what Dylann Roof committed, and yet he's up there partying in Heaven as it were. There is nothing I've ever done in my life that would warrant me going to prison for a day, let alone a week. I disagree with the whole Jesus dying for our sins thing. I am responsible for my own actions, I would hate for someone else to take a punishment for something I've done. That is not right.

[@optionsstrategies7511]

4:45 The forgiveness of that “shooter” may also make “no sense” because it was a staged event.

[@codeblood2000]

Sure and Dylan roof use blanks in his gun right.

[@optionsstrategies7511]

codeblood2000 Do you want to see some photo evidence of media fakery? You have to take the full 2 1/2 hours to analyze and process it though..

[@Str1ek0]

@@optionsstrategies7511 I do brother do you have a link

[@rovert46]

Cliffe says history is seeing something and recording it. Who recorded anything which the bible claims occurred? I don’t think there are any records written to describe Jesus and his alleged miracles, sermons, resurrection etc.

[@rovert46]

Beloved of Jesus the NT was not written by eye witnesses. Who recorded contemporary accounts as they witnessed them?

[@rovert46]

Beloved of Jesus Joseph was informed of Mary’s immaculate conception, by an angel, in a dream. How can that be regarded as historical fact?

[@servantofthelambofgod7879]

@@rovert46 according to her testimony and Joseph’s testimony

[@truthgiver8286]

If he is seeking the truth why does he spend so much time spreading lies

[@rockerobertson4002]

Shocking to hear full grown adults preaching the virtues of a 2000 year old, iron age belief system. Have we not grown up since then?

[@JohnjOcampo]

Yet here you are listening lol, stay tuned.

[@gollumgollum]

As an atheist I love how Cliff says there is no science in the bible. No biology, no chemistry, no physics. Love it. He's right. This is what young earth creationists don't understand. They think the bible is a science textbook. But then they mess up bringing up scientism. Which they claim is the idea that every question can be answered by science. I have never met anyone who believes that. Strawman argument.

[@mcdr15]

JB “they think the Bible is a science textbook” -can you back that up with any proof?

[@gollumgollum]

@@mcdr15 You want proof that young earth creationists think the bible is a science textbook? They think the earth is 6,000 years old They think dinosaurs lived with humans They think obligate carnivores used to be vegans until they were magically changed to carnivores They think the stars only appear old because god sped up light They think there was world wide magical flood They think the Grand Canyon was carved out in 150 days I mean how much proof would you like? Go to any young earth creationist website and read it. There's your proof.

[@gollumgollum]

Young earth creationist believe the bible is correct about everything and if science (facts) contradict the bible in any way then the science is wrong. These are THEIR words, not mine. Go read their faith statements. They will dismiss any evidence no matter how tremendous if it contradicts their magic book.

[@mcdr15]

JB you have failed to answer how they think the Bible is a textbook. You have a very narrow prejudiced mind & a lot of maturing before you erroneously lambaste someone or some group. Keep that in mind.

[@gollumgollum]

@@mcdr15 I answered, you just didn't like my answer or you didn't understand. Go read their websites. Listen to their talks. They say the science in the bible, of which there is none, trumps all science. What part of that dont you understand? And just so you know, I could care less about your feelings or opinions. Keep that in mind. Facts don't care about your feelings.