Give Me an Answer -

Cliffe Knechtle has a great conversation with college students at a campus in the southwest US.
The "Give Me An Answer" ministry began as an outgrowth of the dialogues Cliffe Knechtle has had with students on various university campuses throughout the United States. These universities include the University of Maine, Harvard, MIT, University of Florida, University of Texas, University of Wisconsin, University of Minnesota, University of California Los Angeles, University of California San Diego, Berkeley, Stanford, University of Hawaii and the University of Washington. Cliffe spoke on these campuses in front of the Student Union or Library at noon for five to ten minutes. At the close of his initial remarks, he'd open up the time for questions and answers, which usually turned into a two to four hour dialogue with students. His crowd size ranged from 25 - 500 students at a time, and between classes, new students would join the discussion. This is an extremely effective way to reach a large number of university students with the Gospel of Christ.

[@InfoArtistJK]

Wow! One of the rare times that the first questioner actually listened, summarize Cliffe's answer accurately and accepted that. Excellent questioner and discussion.

[@SpaceEagle93]

I apologize to the first man, I thought he was going to be a jerk but he seemed actually genuine so I just want to apologize to him for my assumption of him. God Bless

[@marilynkarendefreitas9004]

thank you for SHARING THIS & UNDERSTANDING THE IGNORANCE THAT LIVES IN US & OUR DISBELIEF... HAPPY NEW YEAR 2016

[@mikekelly1777]

This preacher is good, street preachers have much to learn from him.

[@renebenton77]

I agree

[@exileduniverse]

he has a name

[@cbwil3121]

really good videos Cliffe!

[@optionsstrategies7511]

Do people not realize they are still indentured debt slaves? What do you think income taxation is?

[@seeqr9]

Refreshing to see someone who gets this. In fact, we are in certain ways worse off seeing as even the worst forms of slavery in the past sometimes allowed a slave to purchase their freedom whereas we are bound from cradle to grave.

[@dotails]

The analogy I use is pouring water and oil in a bowl and dipping your hand in. You are 1 human that can be stated in 3 states of being the you in air oil and that in water. Your hand does your will and communicates through your nerves while you are one.

[@JasonSullivanBigBass]

2023 now Cliff is really a great person. I have watched a lot of his videos always helping me with evidence of Jesus. I know you all feel something inside us that makes you say it has to be a God. Jesus is so amazing.Cliff if you ever see this comment I pray you are having a great life and Happy Thanksgiving brother. Happy Thanksgiving to all my brothers and sisters God is good and the truth Amen

[@stonebrownalien]

Slavery is condemned in both the old and the New Testament! unfortunately most people arent aware of the scriptures that deal with this! So the young man is wrong in saying that it is not condemned in the Bible! In the Old Testament we find: Exodus 21:16 "16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death." The kidnapping and selling of individuals resulted in the death penalty! in the Mosaic Law! In the New Testament slavery is also condemned: 1 Timothy 1:9-10 "9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for "MENSTEALERS", for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" (Menstealers is from the Greek word Andrapodistes, which means slave driver/trader, and also men stealing is grouped in with sinners, unholy, murderers, manslayers, whoremongers and liars! So it is clear that God is against slavery just like everything else that was listed!

[@beavnie]

The green guy prepared his gotcha moment and thought that Cliffe would have no answer. Even his friends were there to support him. You can see in his face the fear when Cliffe actually corrected him and his argument started to fall. Too funny.

[@JamesG...]

Great marketing for Jesus! 👍

[@JOEMODE4U]

Cliffe, it would be good to point out that before the Civil War, many people condoned or promoted slavery based on their right to own slaves as guaranteed under the Bill of Rights and Constitution. However, William Lloyd Garrison pointed out that there is a higher law, or what he called the Higher Law theory, which should be held above the laws of man where slavery is concerned. Surely the Holy Spirit touched the hearts of those who opposed slavery and recognize this Higher Law. ‘Human government, for some purposes,” says ‘B.,’ ‘is admitted to be necessary.” But, surely, a wicked government is not necessary; and when any one is inherently so, it forfeits its right to exist even for an hour. Indeed, properly speaking, there is but one government, - and that is not human, but divine; there is but one law, - and that is ‘the higher law’; there is but one ruler, and he is God, ‘in whom we live, and move, and have our being.’

[@JacoboReveles]

The best analogy of the Trinity is one finger. A finger is composed of 3 bones. If you see an X-ray of one finger, you wouldn’t say, look there are 3 fingers. You would say, there is one finger, but you know that the finger has 3 bones. It’s like God, he is one God (one being), but composed of 3 persons (analogy, 3 persons = 3 bones).

[@twelvedozen5075]

5:30 If stealing 100% of a persons income is slavery, at what percentage is it not slavery?

[@matthewhawthorne8411]

0%

[@tww1478]

The guy who claimed he was a Christian and bashed you for being unkind ... disagree 100%... you've done an incredible job more than anybody could have done in dealing with these ridiculous absurd comments by The Atheist kids

[@COMPNOR]

"Slavery," is such a barrier for a lot of people to comprehend in the Bible, and I feel many people who engage in apologetics, including Cliffe, do not adequately put this concept of "slavery," in antiquity into context. People fall into this false idea that "slavery," equaled the kind of chattel slavery that existed in America until 1865. It was not the same. "Slavery," in antiquity covered a variety of types of servitude, either willful servitude to a person or family to pay for a debt, as a means to learn a trade or skill, or simply a means to survive when in poverty. Certainly the kind of brutal and oppressive slavery we know existed; this was the kind of servitude that many Jews suffered in Egypt, and thus the Lord delivered them from their bondage and helped the Israelites flee from Egypt, while simultaneously punishing the Egyptians. One must fully understand historical and narrative context to really appreciate the historicity and validity of the Bible.

[@seeqr9]

Not all “slavery” is evil or unethical.

[@vangyang1696]

Facts. Some were servitude as a payment.

[@EugeneVerster]

@@vangyang1696 biblically, all were. Exodus 21:16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death." if stealing a person or holding a person against their will is not permitted, that means all slavery in the bible was voluntary

[@vangyang1696]

@@EugeneVerster but if a person owes a debt to someone and has no money, they offer themselves as a servant/ slave to pay it off.

[@matthewhawthorne8411]

@@vangyang1696 and slavery back in the Bible was more so that people who didn’t have farms could eat from farms and people who had farms could have help for their farm it was a symbiosis of problems and solutions

[@fernandop1]

Slavery wasn't condemn in the Bible, it was regulated for the wrongdoings they committed on the victims. The fist one using a slave in the Old testament was Noah on his son for the wrong doing and ever since it was a method of a prison system. But slavery wasn't condemn by God overall.

[@fernandop1]

+James Gray - I see you made an statement, but it would be better if you can give specifics by quoting the passages. I am not sure what part of the New Testament you are talking about because Galatians, Romans 1 & 2 are not condemning slavery, your statements are vague. Take care.

[@bonnie43uk]

+FernandoP1 - Art Zone Productions Hi Juan, I'm sure you are aware of the passage in Leviticus 25 where it talks about buying slaves and owning them as inheritance "they shall be your possession". As you know there are other passages in the bible that talk about beating your slaves and even nailing their ear to a door in Deuteronomy 15.

[@fernandop1]

+bonnie43uk -Hello Tom, notice the subject has nothing to do with Galatians, Romans 1 and 2, and 1st Timothy as the premise was. However, (Deuteronomy 15:16-17) about nailing the ear was the slave decision to remain with their owners or not, it wasn't something the slave have to go through, and if you read (Deuteronomy 15:12) are about those who sell themselves to you as slave from their own freewill within 6 years, the seventh year they must go free. So I see no issue there. Take care and God bless.

[@mackdmara]

FernandoP1 - Art Zone Productions I am sorry that this is your stumbling block. Slavery is wrong, but did God require slavery (a command) or did he allow for it? You are sighting the passages allowing it, not mandating it. There is a difference. We are talking about people who are prone to killing their own kids, sexual immorality, killing each other, etc., these received the Law. Some of those were commands (no killing) some were allowed. Thus, God made concessions (divorce, slavery, etc.). Still, that passage you sighted is bothering you, so I can give you why it is different in the afterlife (when they would be slaves for eternity). Let's get to it. He pointed to Galatians. You should read it all (probably why he did not give the verse). In 3:28-29, you find out that slave & free are as one in Christ. True believers in the Old Testament days, those that were by faith made righteous, will be in Christ at the resurrection. They will be slaves, servants, or what have you (metaphor), to each other. As one body we help each other. So, if the afterlife bothers you, then know it is not a problem, we will be equal there. It still is true that they will serve each other for eternity. Both Old & New Testament work together. Still, why does Paul Not say free all your slaves! Well, he kinda does, but he has to work within the confines of his times. Paul has no authority to overthrow the Roman Empire. He MUST deal with the reality on the ground. So, how did he? Philemon is a one chapter book in the New Testament, but is very important. Verse 13-17 tells of a run away slave, that Paul is sending back. The owner (Philemon) has the right under Roman law to KILL his slave for this. Paul tells this man to accept him back, not as a slave, but as a brother & EQUAL to Paul himself. This is a direct requirement of freeing a slave. Still, read the whole account, it is short. This is also backed up in 1Corinthians 7:20-22. Free yourself if you can & if you are a slave, you are Freed in Christ. That is not accepting slavery, but asking you to leave it if possible! Is it always possible, no. What if you master does Not believe? Are you free to just run off? No! Rome would still kill you for that! I Just pointed that out, so what should you advise such a person? As a spiritual leader, Not the law giver, what do we say? Since you MUST deal with this, do as 1Peter 2:15-17. Add to that for this topic verse 18 & 19. We as Christians will suffer abuse, & regardless of our circumstances, we still need to act honorably. Why? Verse 21-25. Christ was a slave to the people, suffered, & was killed to save them. These are all bound together. So are we in Christ one body. Remember, do not dismember. So, did slavery all the sudden become wrong after being Right? No, because God Never commanded you to have slaves. It was allowed for a time, but that is done away with in Christ. Did that force Governments to give up slavery or stop hypocrisy in people? Nope. It did tell you not to do it. It was a Christian (the man Cliffe named in the video) in England, that used his power to stop slavery. It was a shaker in the US, that was the first to obstinate denounce it. He would lay before doors as a doormat, to let those entering the church know, that was how they were treating their slaves. If we are all one is Christ who is the slave? Luke 22:25-27! Jesus strait up TELLS US that the greatest in the kingdom of Heaven, is the greatest servant. Those exslaves will be greater than their masters in heaven. That is the truth. I encourage you to research what you claim (you were questioning here, I realize). If it looks wrong & bothers you (about any belief), then you need to look into it Before accusations fly. I am glad you were seeking & not accusing here. Keep that up & you will find friends everywhere. God Bless you!

[@ChuckBarchuk]

Here's a random thought: Should we ever knowingly or deliberately disobey our conscience? Why or why not?

[@ChuckBarchuk]

***** I've heard that laugh before I think...lol.

[@JohnjOcampo]

​@@ChuckBarchuk my conscious tells me to stop smoking weed but my mind and body do not, make sure you can distinguish which one is talking to you so that you don't make mistakes.

[@stonebrownalien]

Another issue raised here is one that is valid, and it is this, does the Bible condone slavery? No In the Old Testament we find Exodus 21:16 "16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death." (The kidnapping and selling of people resulted in the death penalty in the mosaic law. So any scripture from the old testament that might first appear to uphold slavery, must first go through Exodus 21:16) In the New testament we find 1 Timothy 1:9-10 "9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for MENSTEALERS, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" (menstealing here is grouped in with sinners, murderers, manslayers, whoremongers, and liars and is regarded as being contrary to sound doctrine. The word menstealer is from the Greek word ANDRAPODISTES which literally means a slave dealer or kidnapper. So the Bible is against slave trading/dealing in both the Old and New testament.)

[@totch22]

I agree. He's referencing belief that we are all "gods" and challenging the doctrine of the Trinity. Mormons differ from Orthodox Christianity in who they say Jesus is.

[@dperkins01]

When he is about to beat seriously challenged the music plays lol.

[@user-df2ml4ro9v]

Matthew 4:23-24, John 4:23-24,

[@djvdiddy]

I think Cliffe is an excellent speaker, but I think he needs to revise his explanation of the Triune Godhead

[@RedEyeAV]

Hey to be fair it’s probably one of the hardest theological concepts to explain.

[@CJBlake-ym6ky]

@@RedEyeAV Because it's nonsense. There's only 1 God

[@rickyderby]

@@CJBlake-ym6ky you seem pretty confident with your finite brain to contemplate a being outside our total understanding

[@CJBlake-ym6ky]

@@rickyderby Indeed I have a finite brain as much as anyone. But please explain how nothing comes from nothing. It can't happen unless there's an uncaused cause.

[@rickyderby]

@@CJBlake-ym6ky I’m not sure what you’re arguing. Explain how nothing comes from nothing? I was talking about your comment about the Trinity and you calling it nonsense.

[@roryglenn3612]

The bible actually does point out that slavery is contrary to christian doctrine. 1 Timothy 1:8-10: 8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound[b] doctrine,

[@SocietyPages]

Rory Glenn Or this one?: If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

[@SocietyPages]

Rory Glenn Fearfully good?: Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

[@roryglenn3612]

SocietyPages Hi SocietyPages, If you are interested in reading and learning more about this topic as I am, here is a link that will help explain this better than I could. www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html Enjoy!

[@SocietyPages]

Rory Glenn Thank you Rory, But I've read this and pretty much every other "Ooh, it wasn't real slavery" lying, back peddling excuse and desperate apologetic for the terrible atrocities that are very clearly written and explained in the cavalcade of immorality that we call the Bible. This one is no less BS than any other and doesn't really answer it's own question....not honestly anyway. "Does the Bible condone slavery?" The answer is yes, it most definitely, no question about it, does. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't read it or is lying. Trying to say you cannot compare the slavery in America in the 1800's to biblical slavery falls on it's own sword, as the slave owners/traders (and others involved) used the Bible to justify the ownership/trading and beating of slaves, as it is so clearly written there that God condones it. Tell me this: Do you think it's morally correct, in any context, to own another human being as property? (Your opinion please, not your preachers or your Bibles opinion). If you can answer that I'll have a follow up question for you.

[@roryglenn3612]

SocietyPages Based on my own subjective opinion not grounded in anything other than my own personal feelings, I would say no it is not right to own another human as property.

[@hannahking2316]

I just subscribed:)

[@stevewyche5232]

This is just fitting the narrative. The argument is ethics are from God, ok so then when you ask why do some people not have any ethics or morals or conscience, the answer conveniently fits the narrative, ie. those people turned away from God.

[@richaellr]

You did the watch the video, did you?

[@stevewyche5232]

@@richaellr All of it

[@dat1d00dx17]

I'd have immediately cited Philemon...The Bible is NOT ambiguous on this issue, Paul clearly states that there is neither slave nor free in Galatians, and he appeals to Philemon to free Onesimus on the basis that all are equal and they are brothers in Christ.

[@invisibleman53]

Cliff is correct in we won’t see The Father or Holy Spirit and we don’t NEED to, cause Jesus told the disciples when they ask Him to “show us the Father” and He said, if you have seen me, then you have seen the Father.

[@boltrooktwo]

Thou shalt not steal is the moral law against slavery if you reason it out. Don’t steal a person’s labor. Nobody would be a slave if they had their own means of laboring for their own support. So you don’t steal a person and force them to work. There are other more justified forms of forced work for criminals, prisoners of war, and to pay off debts but all these are not stealing a person’s labor.

[@calmnrelaxed]

I can't say that Lincoln thought black and white people had the same innate value. In spite of the Emancipation Proclamation and his fight to end slavery, there really is no evidence he thought we were equal.

[@orzmono]

In reality it is not so hard to understand the possibility of 3 in 1, the creation it self manifest of it. for example " water = H2O this element of life truly manifest in 3 different ways of perception: liquid, solid, vapor… but it does not change it's true component, it is always H2O in 3 different manifestations. also 1 day is the morning and the evening that makes 1 day, 2 different manifestations but still makes it 1 day. we can not separate them but we do perceive them separate. an other example is that we all experience 1 tridimensional plane of view or existing plane, we perceive 3 different planes of existence in 1. = 1 tridimensional existence. and we can go on and on, with evidence that 3 in 1 is not so hard to understand and accept as true.

[@170221dn]

orzmono You do realise that muslims love this stuff, it is like campaign material for them! NOWHERE in the bible is trilogy mentioned. It was manufactured to "fit" in with the problems having more than one deity created.

[@orzmono]

Ephesians 1: 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him. read it ( Father, Son, Spirit, / Wisdom, revelation, Knowledge ) read it 100 times there is many more passages like this one, who have ears to hear ket him hear. Keep up on building your faith, you are still drinking milk, but one day you are going to be ready for strong meet. God bless you

[@170221dn]

orzmono Sorry, where does it mention trinity? All I see is a list of gods.

[@orzmono]

Who have eyes to see let him see!

[@170221dn]

orzmono Quoting the bible is circular reasoning. The bible is the proposition, it is not the evidence, it cannot be used as evidence to prove itself. "Who have eyes to see let him see!" I say Who is delusional let him not see.

[@TreenighetMaranata]

13:13 Jews was not right when they said that Jesus did blasphemed, if anyone else would have said; "I AM", then it would have been right, a blaspheme, so no Cliffe they were not right, they were wrong! Just because they thought it was a blasphemy does not mean they were right! Instead Jesus was right, he truly was and is "I AM"! It was no small thing to say what the Jews accusingly said to Jesus, and still they were seriously very wrong! But I have to say Cliffe, you are doing a good job together with your wife and sons traveling and spreading Jesus around you, God bless you and your whole family and love ones, likewise many listener aswell!

[@WHATSUP7049]

Elohim in the plural form is referring to the heavenly hosts. Elohim in the singular form is God. In Psalm 82, the plural form of Elohim is the fallen angels. God is judging the fallen angels. Psalm 82 v 6-7 “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.”, Dr. Michael Heiser wrote on this extensively.

[@420Yako]

I'm 1 of His witnesses. I met death as a straight edge Atheist who was calling myself the Savior Yako Romero in my independent wrestling career before my accident in 2005. He is God Almighty amen so He is Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end.

[@dperkins01]

So you can't love yourself by Cliffes logic. I think Cliffe is making things up as he goes. What is a spirit cliffe?

[@420Yako]

Jesus name is first called Emmanuel which being interpreted is God with us. Before Greek translation was Yeshua which is the name Jesus.

[@a45williams]

I have to correct Cliff, in regards of when God said, "Let us make man in our own image." Cliff doesn't fully understand, but I do: God is referring to Himself, the son of God (Jesus because Jesuse once said, "...Before Abraham was, I am." In Proverbs 30:4 "Who has ascended into heaven, or decended (Jesus is the only one that did)? "...What is His name, and what is His Son's name, if you know?" The Son of God is Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. This is not complecated as Cliff presssummed as it is. Very simple subject.

[@souzajustin19d]

You mean the basic Trinity? He explained as three in one, so yes he understands it. He also knew the Trinity is three person's one being. Come on man just listen to what he is saying.

[@dannylinc6247]

Cliffe is going out of his way to convey the information without pontificating. When you do that, you lose half the people who started to listen. Cliffe is walking in their shoes a little to adjust the language so they give attention. The triune God is named as a mystery by the church at the time they realize it and is still classified as such. If you're not familiar with the mentions of things throughout the bible because it seems so vast as you begin in any one book, it remains to be felt within yourself as you learn more with very good teachers. When I was first in Sunday school they told a story of a boy on the beach pouring a bucket of water in a hole in the sand. It was the story of the first man trying to grasp the idea of the triune God. He told it as his own experience. He asked the boy why. He said I cannot understand. The boy said,"I'm pouring the ocean in this hole." He said, you can never accomplish this and I cannot understand this. The boy said, "you will not either truly come to the understanding of the three persons in one God." He stood there looking around and there was no boy there. I thought, well, if it is God's truth, it must be. But I don't expect to fully grasp it here on earth the way we think things are. St. Patrick used the shamrock to demonstrate how the whole was three in one. I went on vacation and it was a hot day at the beach. One of my siblings handed me a popsicle called a 3 in 1. They had taken the same class before me.

[@gallo6206]

Pastor with all do respect if it wasn't for the crusades wouldn't the Spaniards still be conquered by the Moore's Muslims correct me if I'm wrong thank you God bless you . Jesus Christ name 🙏

[@8xtime]

I think it may be more rational and reasonable to trust in something we understand rather than something we don't understand.

[@codeblood2000]

I really don't like it when cliff concedes that the Crusades wer some horrible thing that Christians did turned out the Crusades were a good thing I mean the first Crusades

[@jeremyramsey8804]

Uh the bible does address chattel slavery in exodus 21:16. God is not a fan of chattel slavery.

[@diagorasofmelos9283]

Love how the one guy gets Cliff to affirm partialism, which is a heresy.

[@fredricthomas6654]

The Trinity is confusing if Christianity is a monotheistic religion.

[@prophet6154]

Mins, body, soul... You too are one in three. Your mind is not separate from your body. You soul is bound by the physical reality your mind and body

[@elkellenhabla]

The second guy sort of sounded like a Mormon. No offense intended by that but his comments reminded me of Mormonism.

[@tulsaman0871]

I think he missed the whole slavery thing. In the Old Testament if somebody borrow 20 bucks from you you could have allowed them to work that off instead of just giving you the $20 back. That in Old Testament terms is what they call indentured servitude and not comparable to today's slavery

[@souzajustin19d]

Also in Deuteronomy its a sin to kidnap or capture people, furthermore a sin to purchase a captured person. That law alone would never allow American Slavery.

[@jeremyramsey8804]

It's called chattel slavery. That is where one human owns another as a piece of property Ex. 21:16 addresses chattel slavery.

[@BananaBoat629]

What college is this at?

[@dj_fistbumplegend]

BananaBoat629 I want to say University of Texas.

[@boltrooktwo]

God is a position. God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are separate beings but occupy the same position of holiness and perfection in context to this universe.

[@upredsev475]

Here after Germany élimination smh🤦🏽‍♂️

[@PGBurgess]

So there was a time when god said childmolestation, slavery, polygamie ... was ok? That there was time that people were allowed to do this and reach heaven... and the reason it was ok, was because they had 'hard hearts'? The change described follows from this human 'hardness of the heart'. How does this effect the nature of god (where apperently it 'flows' from)?

[@MayonR]

P.G. Burgess To answer this question one would have to find the statement that it was ok that slavery was ok. There is no such admission. There are only "in the event of" regulations. Also there is a sort of begging the question fallacious line of reasoning that slavery itself is wrong to begin with. If the alternative was death,poverty, and starvation or slavery and if slavery is regulated to the point that it is beneficial to both in the contractual agreement then there is nothing inherent in slavery that makes it immoral.

[@PGBurgess]

MayonR "You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance." " When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are." "When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling" "When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God gives them into your hand and you take them captive, and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pare her nails. And she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and shall remain in your house and lament her father and her mother a full month. After that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife." "You who are slaves must accept the authority of your masters with all respect. Do what they tell you--not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they are cruel." ... there is nothing benifial to both parties. there are clear bounderies between 'employement' and slavery.. and these descriptions, tolerated and ordered by devine revelation are of the cruelest kind. If you think there is a kind of slavery that is fine.. i think you stretched the definition to far, and it is clearly not the case for the type given in certain verses (and plenty more where those came from). I'm sure you can find verses that contradict these.. that is was is meant by the bible being "the big book of multiple choice". Your admission that, at the least, this is tolerated by the god.. though not actively said it was good seems very weak. Not taking action, is a moral position. But can you realy think the quotes above describe a tolerable view?

[@MayonR]

P.G. Burgess If both parties entered into a contractual agreement there was obvious benefit to both parties. One would be escaping poverty and starvation and would be insured to pay off all debts so they would not return to the very condition they left. [[i think you stretched the definition to far]] There are varying forms of slavery as it is which can include serfdom,chattel, and vassal slavery which was actually a merciful form of slavery since the alternative was death on a conquered nation. The verse depicted by you are contained within the very chapter lex talionis is found and is a principle still in modern law. They are tribunal guidelines and they would obviously be employed upon an accused. They were not a permissive mandate as some try to portray. In this light there is no cruelty or immorality laid out. These rights would even be extended upon foreign slaves and they could not be sold off as profit but would remain within Hebrew society. So far slavery is not inherently evil, but only what may accompany slavery may be cruel such as foul treatment. Here I have laid out actual benefits that could have been derived from Biblical slavery.

[@PGBurgess]

MayonR The part where you force a captivated woman to mary you is not realy a contractual, mutual agreement is it? The fact you name certain forms merciful, is only because you place as the alternative 'death' of conquered nations. I think both those examples or nowhere to be found in modern laws anymore.. and even explictly forbidden.

[@MayonR]

P.G. Burgess [[The part where you force a captivated woman to mary you is not realy a contractual, mutual agreement is it?]] Numbers 31 is not an example of serfdom. It would be closer to vassal slavery where the alternative was death. The Midianite women were not forced to marry anyone. Women of that time wanted nothing more than to marry and if they entered into a nation that conquered them, they more than likely would take a Hebrew man. [[The fact you name certain forms merciful, is only because you place as the alternative 'death' of conquered nations.]] Here I was illustrating the fact that vassal slavery is a moral form of slavery outright. This proves that slavery in itself is not immoral. Certain forms like chattel slavery are immoral outright but serfdom of the Hebrew nation served a benefit to both parties in that contractual agreement. Numbers 31 has nothing to do with this.

[@dperkins01]

Cliffe says this means that, but thats only his interpretation. How does know what god meant, or that he is a spirit? I think cliffe is making his own religion.

[@JohnjOcampo]

Yeah we all can make our own interpretations and be right or wrong, the way he puts it makes sense to me but maybe not to you and if you could please explain why?

[@DanyelCarter]

Cliffe has the wrong translation of what ye are all gods means. His interpretation is ridiculous. If it is true it would mean Jesus is just a ruler just like them

[@talllll.ll.1712]

How only 20k watched this and people just replay the same dumb music over and over says a lot about the world we are living in and those who reside therein