Soundstage in IEMs (Beginner's Guide)

[@proffessasvids]

My definition of soundstage: The perception of the three dimensionality factor of the stereo source. Xx

[@GEMSofGOD_com]

Don't bother, Gizaudio is *obviously really* just another earless salesman

[@aesonone]

i understand "depth" not as "bass" but as forward/backward projection as opposed to sideways

[@shaami8622]

The way i see your interpretation is actually what i consider as "clarity"/"detail". The way I interpret soundstage is how the frequencies interact with each other, much like how the frequencies interact around your head, pinnae, and ear canal when listening through speakers. Being able to manipulate these frequencies by making it arrive earlier or later, louder or softer, into your ear drums like it would in exterior environment is what contributes to wider soundstage imo. This is what i found out when learning from audio engineers and mixing engineers talking abt making things sound 'wide' and 'big'.

[@sidesaladaudio]

Great video. I agree that most of it is down to the FR/Tuning, and your HRTF. And i also agree that it can mean something different for everyone, which can unfortunately lead to some confusion for viewers if every reviewer is using the same terms, but meaning things that are slightly different. It seems that more and more reviewers are speaking about this problem now.

[@GEMSofGOD_com]

Soundstage *obviously* can't mean a thing other than perceiving the sound as it's there around you in all the right places, 1:1 source-to-ears.

[@nzed4891]

One of the best videos you've ever done Timmy. Very interesting take and gotta say I am 100% with you on this matter.

[@BassDad8]

Timmy! Thank you for breaking that down into something easily digestible. When you’re talking about something as nuanced and subjective as soundstage (especially where IEMs are concerned), it’s easy to get off track. You didn’t. Thanks for helping to clarify something that is most definitely not easy to quantify. ☮️

[@montyslush]

i literally just thought of watching a video about this minutes ago, then i open youtube and this is the first video i see. you always make what the people want!

[@miki890098]

An element that most people don't consider when talking about Soundstage imo is detail/resolution and layering capabilities. Tuning does a great deal, but sometimes when iems are capable of letting you hear different elements very clearly, it gives the illusion that they're in two different places spacially or simply they're "far apart", which at least in my case is what creates the strongest illusion of Soundstage. Some people call this imaging, and I do agree that imaging and Soundstage are two different things, but for me the strongest impression of "space" comes only when both the imaging and the "width" of Soundstage play togheter.

[@someoneanother1613]

The resolution/details/"technicality", when different frequencies don't shade each other, as well as the different phase response curves, when some frequencies reach eardrum at different times from what is intended, are as important as specific frequency response signature for each individual anatomy to get this very "soundstage" effect but for some reason those factors are rarely considered. There's also crossfeed from both channels takes place, but this is rather DSP effect acquired using such plugins as Stereophonic-to-Binaural (BS2BR).

[@HobbyTalk]

He said it!!! He said the thing!!! THE TRUTH! You sir are a saint, thank you for your service.

[@TheYungKingz]

I disagree with eartips being snakeoil. They definitely change the tuning for me (which in turn can affect soundstage, as you've said)

[@Gizaudio]

It does affect soundstage, but not by any significant amount unless it severely changed FR like in case of foam tips.

[@scorpioassmodeusgtx1811]

​@@Gizaudio Hard disagree. Going from narrow-bore eartips to wide-bore eartips can have a completely transformative effect on perceived soundstage. A classic example would be the Kiwi Ears Cadenza, which sounds congested with the stock narrow-bore eartips, but swapping them out for some wide-bore tips like TRI Clarion or Tangzu Tang Sancai gives them a wider and more open sound. The Tanchjim Zero is also a completely different experience depending on whether you're using narrow- or wide-bore tips. I could name countless examples, as most IEMs demonstrate similar changes depending on the width of eartip bore.

[@rustyshakelford1466]

@@scorpioassmodeusgtx1811 Because you're getting more highs, and because you're listening to the IEM in it's most natural state. Most people don't realize that narrow bores are just straight up bad, they reduce highs and clarity and thus a perception of space by constraining sound/pressure waves as they enter your ear. But because 99% of IEMs ship with cheap narrow bore tips people think this is the proper stock sound, and in many ways it is, but the most detail you can get from the drivers will always be with wide bores. it gets more confusing when many IEMs ship with "bass" and "highs" tips which are really just wide and narrow bores, where narrow has being conflated with bass simply because it reduces highs relative to wide bores. But even stock wides are imperfect, because the best sound comes not only from wide bores, but wide bores that create horn/waveguide shapes inside your ear canals; This is why basically all the premium tips like Springtips, W1, S&S, Sancai wide, etc. are all wide bores with special shape designs at the end of the tip. tl;dr: Wide bores sound more open because you're taking the veil off that comes with most stock tips. Even then, like Timmy said you're getting an extra dose of "fake" soundstage that way, since no FR trickery can actually replicate the "real" soundstage that comes with outer-ear interaction.

[@aesonone]

ye thing is tips can change FR way more than marginally

[@jayyaudio]

Wym Timmy are you telling me I just wasted $5000? /s

[@nukert658]

As much as there is variance of opinion in this hobby I also offer the thought that there's also as much variance in the human ear, I think it is entirely possible that 2 people have the EXACT same preference but due to such ear difference it just takes a very different tuning to get the same sound profile.

[@kajetan9550]

Soundstage depth means bass hits low? Wtf? Depth as the name suggests is how deep it is - frontal presentation or layering, how close vs. far the sound is

[@p.t.2939]

I think it's important to note (although not yet widely understood) that the pinna gain in IEMs starting at 1-2 Khz instead of 2-3 Khz (where it does in most headphones) hurts the stage. Easily fixed with eq, luckily. If you use B&K 5128 measurements where it's possible to compare headphones and IEMs then this becomes immediately obvious

[@Gizaudio]

This is one of the examples I didn't bring up in video, but essentially 1k-2k region account for vocal forwardness, reducing it pushes back the vocals and allows for a more spacious sound. Final A4000 has this kind of effect, but not many IEMs do.

[@TFWandyzilla]

Soundstage is created by having 2 spekers that you can hear with both ears at the same time. It's created by you hearing the right speaker with the left ear and vice-versa, by the differenece in time it hits each ear and the shape of your head. When you have spekaers positioned correctly in the center of the room and away from the wall behind, they will create the illusion of a wall of sound. If you close your eyes you won't even know where the spekers are, it will sound like a huge soundbar with 1000 mini speakers in it. Sound engineers can place instruments from left to right, bass is everywhere on this 'bar' and the voice is in the middle. It makes it very easy to focus on each instrument this way. It gives you the feeling they are playing in front of you. You can't get this effect with any kind of headphones because you don't hear the left channel with your right ear. Even if you use a crossover to blend left and right, you still don't get the effect bevause it doesn't involve the sound flowing around your head.

[@Diffferencial]

you can get pretty good with digital effects but obviously not as good as with speakers. but i wouldnt say that headphones dont have any soundstage

[@TFWandyzilla]

​3393 if you ever find a way, please let me know. I've tried all the plugins possible. Nothing does it because it's relative to each head and the way your own brain perceives sound.

[@Diffferencial]

@@TFWandyzilla would love to do Research or engineering on that! Will get back to this if i will follow this Hobby :)

[@mehmetgurdal]

I agree. but a big planar headphone is the closest candidate for speaker alternative. 1st it doesnt have too much excrutiating force caused by driver and 2nd it can hold onto the lower bass notes. but for a one on one speaker alternative we need to match the HRTF of the listener at perfect level. which is miracle at this point. first we'd need to create a complete replica of the listener as realistic as possible. than we would need to put 2 Bruel&kjaer 4620's on that replica head. oh and we also should consider the head movement: eq on the headphone should change realtime in order to create the illusion of speaker placement

[@Diffferencial]

@@mehmetgurdal a "real" speaker immitation done by a headphone is simply impossible. Just considering that listening with speakers is a full body experience and with headphones it is a head-experience. Sure if you would build some kind of suit that could work but by that time you could also just Adress your hearing nerves and sense via idk future neuralink maybe? What im trying to say is, the best headphone isnt going to be like a speaker but they both have their own strenghts. E. G. 3d imaging is nearly impossible on stereo speakers but with headphones and hrtf it just works well on some tracks.

[@marckdroid]

Just tried the tunning: 5:59 EJ07M 6:39 Mest MKI 7:42 7th Acoustic Proxima 9:56 Lokahi

[@imjustafish9802]

DANTE

[@IvanMurrayLi]

an iem that has a good imaging has a tuning that almost matches your hearing ability ie: lots of people have impaired hearing, using hearing test eq can make an eq based on your ability that can improve imaging a lot

[@favouronoilu7654]

The way you place your headphone also very much improves soundstage.

[@paulosilva8200]

The Chamber resonance in every speaker creates sound stage too. Plus the driver quality too Because eco or natural reverb creates sound stage .

[@Haru_no_ki]

You can test how wide/narrow soundstage sounds with Steelseries sonar. They have something like that, might not sound as the real deal, but can mimic it

[@edwardwagner2142]

For some of us who have experienced a free soundstage it is 100% real and physical. Depth of soundstage is 'NOT' just width, BASS/DOWN LOW sound and perception. Sound stage is also depth (back behind the sound wall, and hight of instrument placement. It can not be 'tweaked' with tuning. No piece or group of equipment in the IEM industry has been able to offer me 'depth' of soundstage. While I do posses free soundstage in my home unit, I do not in my portable/IEM listening experience. If you have experienced free soundstage with depth and hight, kindly list 'all' of the equipment you used. Source, amp, cables, IEM etc. I would like to duplicate and purchase. Thank you.

[@AA-nb2gy]

Soundstage = the level of perceived 'virtual reality' that a sound system offers. Its the "I am there" feeling

[@wild_running]

Enjoyed this video! Look forward to watching the EQ follow-up. Maybe add something on MSEB? Ive left EQ alone and played with MSEB to get the sound I like.

[@giannisapostolopoulos9217]

My interpretation of soundstage is getting a feel of the location that the music is recorded in, for example music recorded in a theatre should sound more expansive than music recorded in a studio. Also tips do change the soundstage impression for example final E reduce the feel of openness.

[@TFWandyzilla]

It might be better to call that room echo

[@thefinkie6459]

Yeah, eartips affect the frequency response directly, which can certainly affect the soundstage.

[@rustyshakelford1466]

That effect is in the recording itself. And Final E would reduce perception of openness because it reduces highs, not because it's altering some separate aspect of soundstage itself.

[@giannisapostolopoulos9217]

@@rustyshakelford1466 I would argue that the actual stage is a property of the recording but the accurate or not representation of it is a property of the iem, also affected to a degree by the tips used.

[@gerritfridericksohn4627]

I've been into hi fidelity for 50 years. Have you ever had a system that images to the extent that you can "see" a saxophone or guitar hanging in space? If you haven't then I have the pleasure of informing you that there is more. Hiw about a soundstage and imaging that allows you to "see" and pick out the individual backup singers? For decades I listened to single driver "point source" speakers with 2A3 monoblocks. I haven't heard imaging and soundstage like that from earphones or headphones. Would like to.

[@Gizaudio]

This video is soundstage in IEMs. Not soundstage as a whole.

[@GauisHelenaMohaim]

I don't know where to begin but I have to politely disagree with your point than soundstage is for the most part a result of tuning. Let's take the example of the famous venerable closed back Beyerdynamic DT770 vs it's open back twin, the DT990. They are highly repairable and i own several copy's of both for more than 40 years. There are several iterations of them with various resistances and thus different coil windings, within the same model but if you disassemble them, their drivers and membranes look perfectly identical. So the main difference between the two is the obvious one. The DT770 is a closed back with a narrower soundstage and the DT990 is open back with a wide soundstage. And yes, they do sound different because of this. Of course the fundamental difference between iem's and these Beyers is the size of the membrane and the fact that the headphones are over ear constructions vs in ear channel. I don't think tuning but airflow behind the membrane is the mayor contributer to what we perceive as a wide sound stage.

[@laquaces]

Many people I know: Variations has really narrow soundstage Timmy: wide soundstage

[@andrewalexander9508]

One thing I would say as far as I hear. On headphones it's seems to be driven by the airiness of openback headphones. In that I think extra porting helps with this. I don't think its. Just tuning but the grills on the FH9 seems to add to airiness on the top end that makes it feel open (even if it doesn't actually bleed much noise from it). That's said tuning helps a lot because. The FH5S doesn't feel very stagey either. But in the end I think you're right. Again just because it feels more spacious for an IEM. IEMs are still waaaay to in your head to really feel spacious anyways. I love my FH9 because it's missing a lot of the pressure and it does feel spacious compared to my collection, it isn't even close to as spacious as my DT1990 or PC38X.

[@rustyshakelford1466]

You should keep in mind that most "grilles" in IEMs are purely cosmetic and the true venting that exists is somewhere else on the shell. FiiO is known for having good venting designs and specifically as one of the first makers to push dual-venting on most of their IEMs, so it makes sense that you could perceive a difference in those IEMs. The "openness" that comes from good venting is mostly down to better response from the DDs that most IEMs rely on when they are vented well. For a good example of this try the Moondrop quarks, which are not vented; You can hear the constraint on the driver if you a/b a similar vented set.

[@grandpagibz]

I've purchased a lot of the so called gaming focused iems. Hunt showdown is my go to for testing because the audio in that game is prob my opinion the best out there. That being said the only pair of iems that have been able to compete with my $500 open backs are the simgot ea1000. They are simply amazing. Was hesitant being they are a single driver but all worries were set aside once I put them in. I do not eq them and I do not use loudness equalization. I can pinpoint position and distance of movement, gunshots, footsteps perfectly . I love them. I even moved to using them in tarkov because of this.

[@n00kie]

What are gaming focused IEMs? Are you referring to Fresh Reviews? Top players kick your ass with their cheapest audio stuff still. Apart from that nothing wrong to combine different hobbies like gaming and ChiFi IEMs. I just don't buy the "fancy IEMs enhance your gaming experience" since tuning is the crucial factor and there's no magic in the ChiFi realm to make them ideal for gaming 😉

[@rustyshakelford1466]

"Gaming" IEMs are a pure meme intended to sell more expensive IEMs to a wider market that would usually not buy them. It started with youtubers looking for a new angle to make videos on, and when IEM makers saw the reddit hype built off this messaging they decided to cash in by including it in their marketing for IEMs that really were never designed "fpr gaming". Gamers are a huge market that isn't that hard to sell to as long as the marketing and product re-branding is competent enough. That's why you've seen a boom in gaming headsets too that when you examine them you realize they're just the same chinese headphone OEM with different color schemes and logos and cheap boom mics bolted on.

[@Zephyn]

At some point after trying so many different headphones and earphones, I stopped caring about Soundstage marketing material. I just focused on what sounds best for my ears and stuck with it. I should consider using an EQ some time to see if I can get more out of my IEMs and speakers.

[@gwine9087]

To me, true soundstage can only come from speakers as the music is coming at you from the front as it would if you were at a concert, etc. But, I agree that headphones and earphones can do a pretty good job of creating the perception.

[@brusselssproutwuh3595]

For me. Depending on how your iem is tune in default. I'd boost treble and bass for the 80 and 100 hz frequency the if they are in the flat signature family and turn down the 250 hz frequency to the lowest point where it doesn't hollows out the vocals. 250 hz is usually just mud and not a single song ive listened benefits from boosting that frequency. Most cheap Iem I think can benefit from just lowering that specific frequency to add clarity and better "soundstage" because it sounds clearer. But I only do this for my tangzu wan er and damn, Tangzu Wan Er default it already good but that tune I did made it better. Idk if it would do the same for other

[@catadegen]

The thing is, we as the hardcore players in the game, always forget about how we interpret these terms when we are newbies. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people'd say eartips and cables (esp. balanced) make sound bigger, and hence a bigger soundstage, in which I'll totally agree with their description because it's true and noticeable to a certain extent. Tough take, but respect o/

[@timothylai8483]

clearly you are not a hardcore player if you let placebo control you this hard. go learn some audio science.

[@wana.me003]

I agree with this. Listening to music over balanced or single ended I hear the sound expanded but tighter and clearer. This is an effect I can audibly make out.

[@rustyshakelford1466]

That makes no sense. The only thing you're getting with balanced is more power from amps that are configured that way. If you took your balanced connected IEM from one amp and switched it to single-ended on another amp that delivered the same power, the effect would be the same.

[@zora2532]

Final a4000 has some pretty good soundstage

[@krayozmines]

I think drivers, shells, driver configuration and placement also affect soundstage. I still feel like the tuning affects it more apparently

[@hartyewh1]

When I compare headphones or IEMs when possible I use Oratory's presets for EQ and still there are notable differences in say spatial presentation with IEMs as well. Dusk sounds bigger than Timeless for example.

[@magicianGOD]

C-Media + dolby headphones v2 is best soundstage with every headset & iem

[@srinikesh3481]

Can you do a video of iems that have great soundstage . if possible can you review 1 custom jr

[@lim81x]

Thanks Timmy for providing this video. It's help a lot!

[@vasudevanvenkataraman5587]

So if i put myself in the centre and draw a oval/circle around me, that to me is soundstage. If its bigger and i can clearly distinguish rear from front and left and right or percieve exactly where that particular audio is coming out of, i have a good sound stage. If everything is near me then it's bad

[@andonlytheone111]

It's not bad or good, it depends on the use case. Bigger stage is good for gaming, movies and some music. Open backs over ear headphones tend to do that better, but closed backs and IEMs usually have a harder time with soundstage and we like them for other reasons, like details, tuning, etc

[@auroragoose3414]

Psychoacoustic illusion 🎉

[@mrKcinima]

I’ve love to listen to the soundstage to your outer song… when it’s FLAC is released

[@haomingli6175]

Because eartips have rather dramatic effects on the frequency response, it is indeed possible that they really affect the perception of soundstage.

[@waterman1ify]

Very informative video. Looking forward to more like it.

[@eliastardust]

Ironic that you would use bass as your first example of how people don't hear big differences, when I can literally feel the bass in both the original CHU as well as the Blessing 3, despite many people saying they're both flat and lifeless. They're both bassy sets to me. And the KATO is right on the edge of being just way too bass heavy for my ears, but many people don't seem to consider it a bassy set. So much of this hobby is entirely subjective. Yes, there's objectively a certain level of bass and we can actually measure it. But every person will hear that volume of bass differently based on a number of factors including outer ear shape and size as well as ear canal shape and size. This means that different people have different sensitivity to certain frequencies. Personally, I am very sensitive to bass frequencies so I hear and feel bass much louder and more clearly than most people do. Similarly I don't hear "shout" that a lot of people talk about, so if I hear someone refer to a set as having flat bass and shouty upper mids then I know there's a good chance that it's going to sound just about perfect to my ears.

[@HeadWombat-si3lo]

HRTF effects don't make meaningful differences in the bass and cause huge variations in the ear gain region, especially with IEM's. You aren't bass sensitive, you're midrange and possibly lower treble insensitive and normalizing your listening volume to this region. Then there's recording style, genre, and general preferences.

[@kennymccormick8295]

As opposed to figuratively feeling the bass? No shit. What a stupid comment.

[@christopherbaxter1691]

Yes for people with older ears the treble reduces and the bass seems to move forward, a lot of us older guys are bass heads because we just can't hear high upper frequencys , the brain seems to learn to compensate over time, if you are hearing good bass on neutral iems you may have early stage hearing damage, keep that volume safe friends

[@willsbox635]

​@christopherbaxter1691 so if i think that some bass heavy iem sounds neutral, I have healthy ears, thank you for the 100% accurate info.

[@hartyewh1]

For me Kato is neutral as in not a drop of added bass😅

[@luckyone525]

So if i wanted spacious sound like one you described in immersive iem section in previous video, one could play with eq and make lets say er2xr sound more spacious for open world gaming? I could get better details than dunu titan s and spaciousness? That would make me very happy. It is supposed to be more in head sound which is a bit meh when you are playing an open world game, i guess windows Sonic for headphones could help? I am thinking between er2se or xr or dunu titan s for that reason. Thanks for the great content!

[@cryteslx8554]

if you wanna more soundstage reduce 3khz and increase 10-12khz in parametric eq, also reduse bass

[@sillysmack]

I come from a home theater background and recently got into headphones and i just dont percieve "soundstage" or "3d holographic" that everyone raves about. maybe my ears suck but im 13 headphones into my collection, and 7 iems and i just keep trying to find this effect reviewers speak about. hd800s is supposed to be some amazing wide soundstage and my brain just doesnt pick it up 🤷. Ive got cans from all the big brands and the differences in width and depth and so minimal its not even worth thinking about to me. Maybe too many years of legit surround sound in theater just messed me up for headphones

[@wellykuo4590]

I think bigger shell iem has bigger soundstage, for example, Quintet and S12 Pro , Quintet sounds defintely bigger than S12 PRO by A/B test them.

[@xanture]

Do you have other examples of anti shout IEMs? The examples you gave are either really expensive or you can't get them because the SA6 Ultra was a limited run.

[@andonlytheone111]

Maybe the Zero 2, bit I don't like that tuning too much, makes the whole thing lame

[@Ay.Caramba]

To me soundstage is the ability to place elements of the music in 3 dimensions. It isn't just about spaciousness, it's directional as well.

[@proffessasvids]

100%

[@brusselssproutwuh3595]

That's just called imaging

[@tarcisiofilho5663]

I totally agree with Timmy's points

[@SeanFlaherty]

isn't soundstage just production plus good sound reproduction/stereo separation?

[@llysender]

I donno. The FR only part seems strange from personal experence. The time domain absorbion/delay with very much affects the soundstage/imaging. EQ alone is very minimal as it doesnt affect the attack/decay characteric of the iem and only affects sustained notes and not really affect the imaging much. Like how no amount of eq is able to save the variations from having a extremely cramped imaging but just changing the tips to the tanchjim treble tips help alot. The everything is FR meme needs to stop.

[@ari-athbadminton0301]

4:30 EQ cannot fix problems with stereo positioning I have with my KZ ZSX or the 7hz timeless, for same reason EQ cannot fix soundstage on iem that already suffer. What you can do with EQ is ruin the tonality of the drivers pushing them outside their comfort zone of operation.

[@Nova_Lapis132]

I feel like the 600 soundstage is so congested that even iem will surpass it in soundstage.

[@Fahad1999win]

Thanks Timmy, is NICEHCK F1 PRO review coming this cold days or later in 2024?

[@FaizalKuntz]

What is sound?

[@GEMSofGOD_com]

It's a meme

[@zaq9339]

Soundstage = fr + hrtf Most people hear the same but there always will be a few outliers

[@Kramburger11]

I don't think iem soundstage is a meme. I do agree that tuning has an effect on perceived soundstage, but I don't believe it's entirely responsible. As an example, I have both the Etymotic ER2 and ER3. These sets have the same tuning. The ER2 has the narrowest soundstage I've heard in anything, yet the ER3 sounds like what I would call an average stage width. Why is this the case? I don't know, honestly. The only real difference between the two is that the ER2 has a dynamic driver while the ER3 has a BA. Perhaps because of this, each driver is positioned differently within the shell, changing the distance between them and my ear drums. That would be my guess. In any case, soundstage is still a pretty subjective topic, but I think it is a tangible aspect that depends as much on the physical shape of ones ears and the iem itself as it does on the tuning. That's my two cents on the matter.

[@rustyshakelford1466]

Like you said, driver difference. Even if they measure close on a graph the timbral differences from the different drivers will make the ER3 sound like it's leaning a bit brighter, and that combined with being slightly more resolving on the top end will make it sound more open than the ER2, which many describe as more natural in it's timbre/tonality (especially bass) overall because it's a DD. Also I'm pretty sure the BA in the ER3 is minimally filtered and front-firing directly into the nozzle so that will increase the sound differences as well.

[@pithyginger6371]

I feel like stage width is overrated. Depth in the center stage is where it's at, and I haven't felt that illusion with harman tuned iems. Maybe they just don't match my HRTF.

[@choonghou66]

Hey Timmy, thanks for this breakdown! Question; if soundstage is most closely correlated with FR, why would IEMs have generally poorer soundstage than headphones? Let’s say, hypothetically, if an IEM and a headphone graph exactly the same / are tuned the same, wouldn’t they have the same soundstage? I can sorta figure that maybe open backs feel more “wide” because they’re less isolating and you can hear some ambient noise, giving the illusion of “wide”. Any thoughts?

[@Gizaudio]

I should say soundstage in IEMs is closely correlated with FR. Headphones and speakers have more factors like HRTF involved.

[@sidesaladaudio]

If they had the exact same response at your own eardrum, than they should sound identical since they're minimum phase systems. But this is a lot harder to achieve in reality as each of us have different ears, with different acoustic loads, as well, different IEMs and headphones have different acoustic impedance. So what you see on the graph, even if they match FR on a measument rig, likely won't match the real response in your ear. IEMs have a higher acoustic impedance than headphones as well, so they are likely more subject to change their response based on your own ear. They also bypass your pinna, which is one factor where headphones may benefit in this case since they can take more advantage of your HRTF, where as IEMs have to make an average assumption As well, there are a lot of other factors that can affect how you hear sound. Isolation, and how much ambient room noise you hear can affect the perception of width. As well, even the form factor of the IEM or headphones may play into how you percieve space in audio.

[@choonghou66]

Thanks for the response, guys! I agree that misc non-FR factors such as isolation, comfort, fit, etc. definitely affect soundstage perception. IEMs, headphones, speakers, all differ here. Oh, personally, with earbuds like Monks or even AirPods (non-Pro), they are so comfy to wear that they disappear, and I’ve had the occasional scare thinking that certain sounds came from outside the buds! I’m sure the fact that speakers literally vibrate your hairs and body plays a part in their sensation of wide soundstage as well. I’d guess it’s much more than response at the eardrums alone.

[@ilpastor]

Let's see the pt.2!

[@fiddlix]

Excellent video that is welcome information Timmy.

[@The_Shock_and_Awe]

I have a Sony IER Z1R and soundstage is not big but for an IEM it's big enough and it's also like 360 because I am fooled while watching a movie I thought there's something moving behind me and I often take the damn IEMs out just to make sure what I'm hearing is just in the movie and I don't watch scary movies with it no no it will scare me 😂😂😂

[@dogewow8999]

What about group delay? Because 2 IEMs with the same frequency response don't sound the same.

[@Ghostling6180]

IEMs are minimum phase. When the system is like this, the amplitude measurement is directly linked to the time domain. So things like impulse response, group delay, csd, ect, are stable, and changes in FR will also appear in those time domain measurements, such as in CSD (waterfall plots).

[@buaya111]

can dac amp boost soundstage? i see some reviewers it can boost

[@ngck]

"Soundstage depth means that you know, the bass hits low, you feel the rumble, you hear the air, all those things contribute to a good soundstage." This does not sound right to me. This is supposed to mean how deep or shallow the soundstage is. How far back or forward you can hear the instruments in the soundstage, much like a real stage. E.g. the drums far at the back, the vocalist right in front, the guitar somewhere in-between, etc.

[@Gizaudio]

If you watch the whole video, I explained the further and closer thing too.

[@blitttzzz]

very informative, thank you.

[@cassini7677]

Still in iem mostly details feels spacious sound if listen in headphone and speaker

[@kapitantutan4862]

Maybe soundstage is the friends we made along the way

[@chanmunphang8361]

Timmy please review the ea500lm🙏🏻

[@Del_987]

IEM soundstage = 0-5 Headphones soundstage = 6-15 Speakers Soundstage = 16-100

[@probotgaming3553]

You should make a video about EQ on android mobile for getting big sound stage for gaming

[@t1daljpg]

I don't get why there's so much debate about this in this hobby. Soundstage really isn't (or at least sure as hell shouldn't be) a subjective term. It's the perceived width and depth of the sound, that's it. While your personal perception of the *quality/size* of the width and depth may differ from other peoples' perception of it, the concept itself isn't subjective at all. People in this hobby just like to redefine the term as they see fit because they're "audiophiles".

[@layinboo2924]

Next, try Peace/APO EQ 🗿

[@jayzhahe5423]

Hey bro i'm new on this. I know i'm basshead and i would like to know wich IEMs i could buy not todo expensive pls.

[@Ojedit]

Kbear ks 1 could be good for you.. it's for ₹1200/1300 Indian rupees. Try those... I have used.. they have good bass and it sounds brighter 😊.. hope it works for you

[@Ojedit]

Try V shape iem Tuning

[@BloOdYJo17]

soundstage is not correlated by eq but by phase shift ....

[@Neucher]

do earpuds have sound stage

[@mickeybreg1]

i’m not really sure if i’ll believe this video. i have more than a dozen iems and i can hear soundstage differences among them. good example of this is my campfire andromeda. it got bigger soundstage compared to my others.

[@Gizaudio]

Andromeda is another example of contrast creating soundstage. Treble boosted above upper mids.

[@srg-yo]

What I think is that you made a great video. Well done. There's no way you can have a true sense of depth from something pushing sound directly inside your ears. One possible exception here might be the FIR Audio Frontier IEMs. The kinetic bass driver seems to try to work around the anemic bass compromise required by the treble bias approach by providing an expansion of the area of physical bass impact.

[@KashanArtist]

Wait for your EQ video

[@gyurko]

A tws like the Buds Plus has more soundstage than the S12

[@zionanda2171]

anyone know the outro song?

[@hungerxhunger]

sound stage good me need 3d holographic sound stage for maximum immersion and gaming and hentai

[@rhimonbose7387]

pls review the Ziigaat nuo.

[@Nova_Lapis132]

1:00 wouldn’t that just be dynamic tho?

[@bravokarthik4329]

I use Viper4android with headphones surround to 1x for sound stage

[@sensoryexpanse]

Oh no.... Timmy's E X P O S E D us RUN. jk Great video. 💙

[@calvinyip364]

Please review the ea500LM

[@thomasdanny7717]

Well you're right. I've done it on a Dunu Falcon Ultra (gold nozzle). Coincidentally I use a BTR7 DAC. I EQ frequency 8k +1db [Q : 0.5] and 16k [Q : 0.35] in the Fiio Control app. And it succeeds in giving a more airy, spacious impression and better depth layering.

[@parthpuranik4117]

Review the Hype 4s

[@Onat2]

Should I get Xenns Top or Variations?

[@Devi_1]

Mest mk2

[@1337sim1]

Feeling like a boomer right now (lol 😅) but... What does "X is meme" means? Is it "X is subjective" ?

[@corrrect]

Dacs and amps absolutely contribute to soundstage and imaging. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@amirfakhribadri7994]

Company seem make funny bro with graph ,they want to listen to me 250hz down 2db to 4 db that I mention live before and 4khz up to 2,3db but bass run out of SoP😂 .

[@TheGeorgeiii50]

Great

[@yarbles66]

Soundstage is the most overrated & least important aspect of any IEMs. It's all but irrelevant. I really couldn't give a monkey's. Imaging is WAY more important.

[@terrano4392]

timmy just nail it man

[@chefsteve8381]

You forgot to mention it's in the recording and mixing...