"Glitchless" Speedruns

I took an intro to logic class once. It was ok.
Special thanks to: Tompa, Robert T Mruczek, Dannyb21892, Shenanigans, and Blackbeltginganinja
Thanks to: Retro, Werster
More on Ocarina of Time glitchless:
• The Evolution of Glitc...
More on Mirror's Edge glitchless:
• Let's talk about Mirro...
Support us on Patreon: / speedrun
Subscribe to the Second Channel: / ezscapespeedruns​
Subscribe to the VOD Channel: / @ezscapeclips
Join EZScape's Discord: / discord
Follow EZScape on Twitter: / ezscapeyt​
Follow EZScape on Twitch: / ezscape
Music:
• Vanilla - Gigi
• Vanilla - Summer
• Video
• heRajiKa Tracks - Higu...
• Nujabes - Another Refl...
• Simple Citizens - Earl...
• Ljones - Little Brothe...
• Vanilla - Snowdance
Videos used:
• BfBB Unfinished TAS WI...
• Different Jabu Methods... (video provided by dannyb)
• Super Metroid - Any% -...
www.twitch.tv/videos/15724851...
• Legend of Zelda: Ocari...
• Video
• Donkey Kong (1981) For...
• Galaga "No Fire" Trick
• (4:56.528) Super Mario...
• (27:57) The Legend of ...
• Castlevania any% 11:31...
• Metroid 15:43 Former W...
• (28:47) The Legend of ...
• Super Metroid - Any% -...
/ 41605139
• The Evolution of Glitc...
• Pokemon Red NMG Speedr...
• Pokemon Blue - Save Co...
/ 23610435
• Mirror's Edge by Black...
• Let's talk about Mirro...
• Paper Mario (Glitchles...
• OoT Dank% PB/WR 8:55
• TAS - Spyro 2 : Ripto'...

[@Choppytehbear1337]

Twin Galaxies doesn't allow glitches, but they do allow cheating.

[@InviZ.]

*angry Todd noises*

[@trofi123123]

Yeah that segment didn't age well

[@GreyeHazel]

They recently banned Todd Rogers from all the leaderboards so they're getting better

[@m2aynaRD]

@@GreyeHazel we've been talking about it for months finally he's banned

[@Something-ff9cg]

lets not talk about this: todd and billy knew each other and were the *2* biggest cheaters at *twin* galaxy. you did not see anything

[@andrewhoward6946]

"Nah I dont run glitchless, I run glitch less. Totally different category"

[@saouer]

@Fab Elger the portal speedruns have some pretty wacky things (going out of bounds, taking your camera away from your actual body, etc) but it's still speedrunning. not just anyone can do that, like not just anyone can 100% a game in such a short time. i dont know why you're so pissy

[@Wuerschtle]

@Fab Elger people have different opinions. i enjoy glitched runs far more because it shows much better how far a game can really be pushed to its limits. if you dont like it, dont watch it, that simple.

[@Ryuouken]

@Fab Elger you are in a TIIIINY minority with that opinion

[@bain8renn]

plus, its WAY more arbitrary, and alot of planning, when there arent glitchess, and sometimes its incredibly easy to play a game and do a glitch

[@sjakierulez]

@Zena Nakazato Define beating the game

[@12DAMDO]

twin galaxies only have 1 rule and that is "billy mitchel and todd rodgers will stay on top even after their record is proven to be a cheat/glitch/lie"

[@pricelesssword4559]

Can you tell me about Todd Rogers please? I'm unfamiliar with that person. I'm aware of Billy mitchells though. Weirdly enough, I started speed running after discovering speed running through Billy Mitchells is a cheater videos.

[@12DAMDO]

@@pricelesssword4559 Todd Rodgers is pretty much just like Billy Mitchel when it comes to cheating except he's less likely to sue you when making a video about him... they are both friends of each other and if i'm not mistaken there's also a third friend involved who is in jail...

[@pricelesssword4559]

@@12DAMDO Thanks. I was only aware of Billy mitchells... what game was Todd Rogers most known for cheating?

[@Full_Throttle_Axolotl]

@@pricelesssword4559 His most well known example I guess would be an Atari 2600 drag racing game where his supposed time was proven to be absolutely impossible

[@pricelesssword4559]

@@Full_Throttle_Axolotl oh actually I know about that one, thought that was Billy mitchells that did that... thanks a lot. Have a nice day!

[@olipolygon]

nintendo: "well, if it doesnt crash the game, i guess its a feature!" also nintendo: "if you make a glitch level on super mario maker, we're hiring a hitman"

[@illford6921]

Yeah but that's not fun, because I things like SMB1 it's not something that you're expected to find/know. Glitch levels block out a certain group that don't know the glitch also, if the glitch is patched tge level is impossible

[@7ug]

Illford Official i heard that levels stay in the version they were uploaded in

[@Predated2]

if it's a glitch that adds more gameplay and general fun for everyone, then its a feature, if its a glitch that can be abused and could potentially ruin the fun in the future, then they hire a hitman.

[@QueerWebs]

trans rights trans rights

[@beesree39]

foxhound Yeeeee trans rights 💖

[@mrcolegreat3595]

"Is dying a glitch?" - SGDQ 2017

[@hungryhyena783]

GingerGaming depends on the game, sometimes dying can be a glitch, or it can be used to glitch the game.

[@agustinfernandez5115]

Dying Is an intended action. Suicide tho. It might be an exploit. Becouse you use something else in an unintended way.

[@bidoofftw]

In OOT dodongo cavern near the end if link dies on a switch the game thinks that the block you were supposed to put on the switch was there and the door stays open. So in some games can be

[@Loxu69]

back in the really early days of speedrunning some games banned dying which was hilarious and obviously changed in those games but it makes you realize how far rule defining in speedrunning has come

[@davidsm9203]

Should be irl

[@ardentparagon159]

Wow the more I hear about twin galaxies I just imagine a stubborn old grandpa who just hates everyone

[@MrLostcause420]

Accurate

[@loldoctor]

If by grandpa you mean cultist

[@Killopotamus]

This is probably the most defendable aspect of TG tho. It pretty much boils down to "They only have this category" You can argue when they're the only game in town that this is problematic, but I don't think that is a valid concern any longer. If they certify speedruns according to their rules, it's no different than going to a specific leaderboard on speedrun.com to submit your glitchless run. Maybe you have more visibility or clout because of them, but you can check a leaderboard to figure out that for some categories, people just don't care.

[@ZeranZeran]

That's my takeaway from this video. Everyone needs to stop using Twin Galaxies.

[@JazzyWaffles]

The stubborn old grandpa apparently also puts himself at the top of every list in permanent marker. Lol

[@DeSinc]

when I started looking at speedruns yeeears ago, I interpreted 'glitchless' as in no clipping through the world and skipping intended play zones, etc. if you can kick to beak fall damage, well, it's just a movement mechanic now. if you move faster when you spin or roll, well, that's just part of the movement system. if you pick up a pallet and use it to fly over an invisible wall - uhhh it's getting kinda complicated I don't know

[@miatafan]

DeSinc play more hl2 Jk, but seriously, make more videos

[@miksu546]

ok

[@47AdriRamiAKAETHG]

Bro your source shit is so crazy

[@griffingeary3356]

@@miksu546 0o,

[@scurie2179]

omg this guy

[@dew7555]

I've always wanted to see a "dev intended" category Like, as much as I love a good zero star run, to me glitchless is intended to highlight gameplay skill rather than game exploiting skill. That old super Mario 3 tas run everyone thought was real is a great example. It's just beautiful to watch someone tear through a game efficiently. Glitched runs are entertaining for an entirely different reason. The goal of the glitchless category shouldn't be to define glitches to ban, it should focus on preserving intended dev limitations and consistently imposing those limitations on the runner.

[@TheOneGuy1111]

I agree completely; It's always bugged me that speedruns end up being about skill in breaking the game rather than skill in playing the game. While there's nothing nessesarily wrong with focusing on skill in breaking the game in and of itself, shouldn't skill in playing the game recieve just as much focus if not more?

[@yonatanbeer3475]

@@TheOneGuy1111 the problem id that the line between breaking and playing the game is thin. Look at that dinosaur skip on Odyssey. Is that Dev intended? Who knows? Miamoto was talking about that in the interview with minus world. If the game runs it, it's part of the game.

[@yonatanbeer3475]

How do we establish dev intention?

[@dew7555]

@@yonatanbeer3475 that's a good question. I think it's about agreeing on the spirit of the thing as a community and being flexible to new discoveries rather than imposing strict language.

[@dew7555]

@e to the pi i I think you missed the point. I guess from your point of view what I'm trying to say is the "glitchless" category should be defined by what you're supposed to do, not by what you're not allowed to do. Focusing on preserving Dev intended limitations would probably be easier than trying to redefine "glitchless" every time a new strat pops up. Instead of approaching the category with the mindset of "what isn't allowed?" You come in with the question "what needs to be preserved?" It's a subtle shift but I think it's one worth talking about at least.

[@matthiasc.z8332]

" Sonic 06 Glitchless "

[@jamiemarchant]

That would be an extremely hard category *snicker*.

[@LanceThumping]

The only glitch that would be allowed is an arbitrary code execution glitch that is used to patch the game at the start

[@Puncake]

That may be somewhat possible if you know the glitch triggers. A Mass Effect Andromeda glitchless run would be borderline imposible

[@Foozno]

I Don't Exist impossible

[@Samata94]

I Don't Exist "Hello everyone and welcome to my glitchless sonic 06 speedrun stream *starts walking up loop-deloop* well the run is dead thanks for joining everyone."

[@Abdega]

“Glitchless *Bethesda* Speedrun” Complete a Bethesda game without any glitches occurring. If any glitch occurs (intentionally or unintentionally) then the run must restart. *MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!*

[@alexanderm5728]

Harder than the Fire Emblem Ironman challenge.

[@trollbreeder2534]

Harder than the Fire Emblem Barth Challenge. (Raise barth's resistance to it's maximum)

[@SireForseti]

IT JUST WORKS

[@b-d9099]

trollbreeder 2%

[@PLAYER-zn4kt]

trollbreeder Harder then Arden% (beat gen 1 of Fe4 only using Arden)

[@Tbonezz11]

EZScape at 23:57: "Im sure a world record progression video will be posted at some point for the generation one pokemon games" Summoning Salt 4 days later: *posts world record progression video for the generation one pokemon games*

[@octolockg5059]

Omfg

[@paulj6805]

Im pretty sure they talked about it and that was a subtle joke

[@vin-cc9nk]

I think "no skips", "all levels", "all bosses", etc. can be better descriptors for a lot of categories and games (not all of them tho).

[@ShayyTV]

5:56 Dammit, I nearly spat out my drink. "BUT FIRST, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT PARALLEL UNIVERSES"

[@TimoKanal]

I thought the same thing xD

[@jonhenry870]

Shay i

[@Fey_Yoshida]

"HENRY" TJ YOSHI

[@l0lLorenzol0l]

Gijs Schenk its a refference to the anime known as Pannenkoek2012 where the main caracter used his stand, 『QPU Alignment』to trvel to parallel universes.

[@Ray-hx3rm]

Nice

[@Pyroniusburn]

The fucking Mario 64 file select theme haha. Gee, wonder who that might be referencing lol

[@djhenyo]

WAT?

[@palf3813]

An a press is an a press, you can't say its half

[@lazersmel]

tfw you only need to build up speed for 5 hours now :(

[@jacio9]

TJ """Henry""" Yoshi A glitch is a glitch, you can't say it's half

[@8bitdiedie]

Who? Honestly asking here, I’m new to speed-running stuff.

[@KittyKatty999]

Miyamoto: It's not intentional, but it's a feature. Todd: It's not a glitch, it's a feature. Maybe Miyamoto secretly inspired Todd? XD

[@Kirply]

“It just works”

[@ChunkSchuldinga]

Miyamoto's job was to draw squares on construction paper. He doesn't have shit to do with programming, he's a glorified manga artist. I wouldn't trust him with any advice considering glitches.

[@auxchar]

6:01 "But first, we have to talk about Parallel Universes."

[@coletonkofoid4774]

Dude you used the letter "a" when writing this, hopefully done with .5 presses

[@oktal8589]

@Zeltov 181 this would be true if it was a single star run but considering this is a full game the last a press can be held into the next stage where it will be used to obtain wing mario over the rainbow

[@BlazeEmerald]

they could have done it in 0 a presses if they used copypaste, like was done for this message

[@Lestweforgot]

Dank% is the only truly legit category

[@CharaLol]

Snack Bars tf

[@rinoji1125]

Chara_ Don't ask

[@rajakzz4341]

helmenthead RBLX no I want to know

[@Lestweforgot]

> 21:53 bud

[@KCzz15]

@Ryan B: Dank% also known as 420% is "Fastest time to smoke a joint in OOT", yes really. Basically: 1: Get a Deku Stick. 2: Light the Deku Stick on fire. 3: Play the Deku Stick like an Ocarina while it's lit. 4: Let the Deku Stick burn down while holding it like that, so Link "smokes" his blunt. The world record is 8 min 38 seconds, I think.

[@PolarShift]

19:19 I actually ended up performing this glitch completely by accident and without realizing it my first time playing through Mirrors Edge. I thought it was just a really neat shortcut. It was until I tried to reproduce it on subsequent play-throughs that I realized it was not exactly an intended route. Sometimes it's hard to make a run truly 'glitchless' when the game has glitches that can easily be done without thinking about it.

[@nakitsukikuronuma]

Is that why I can't find a Doom 2016 "glitchless" speedrun? Aw, I just want to see some Doom enthusiast efficiently slaughter hundreds of demons...

[@christophercollins3632]

Emery Langbroek Look up Clockner’s channel.

[@sienile]

Best "butt-clicked" video I ever watched. My pocket's taste is improving.

[@CoopersCrazy]

Oh neat, I didn't know Miyamoto felt that way about the minus world. It's cool that Nintendo references it in newer games now. Like in Super Paper Mario, the afterlife level is also known as World -1.

[@GreenArt4]

Speaking of which, why aren't there Super Paper Mario speedruns?

[@CoopersCrazy]

I don't know, and I'm sad about it

[@breakbeatboy2]

CoopersCrazy love the profile pic dude

[@adamkampen]

CoopersCrazy *Sees Dimento icon and that you are talking about Super Paper Mario* "I see you are a man of culture as well"

[@0error.389]

36-1

[@tearlach47]

5:55 *Pannenkoek flashbacks intensify*

[@jackthebeatbox8071]

He could do in half in a press

[@thisbox]

EzKoek

[@MEEPdragon]

An a press is an a press you can't say it's only a half

[@sisterofthedevil5964]

Please refer to Pannekoek's half A press commentated video

[@Hals]

I like pancakes

[@mountingfailure2309]

A glitch is a failure of coding. An exploit (at least the way you defined it) is a failure of game design.

[@squeegeemcgee]

that’s a good way to put it. I feel like there are probably exceptions though, like exploits that also involve a coding failure.

[@percevaldragmire]

I prefer the term "Creative use of game mechanics"

[@mailliw94]

@@squeegeemcgee if any coding is involved its then a glitch. not complicated

[@spatulasnout]

​@@squeegeemcgee Indeed, for example a coding change a few months after Quake 2's initial release opened up a category of exploits, due to making subtle changes to the player movement physics. It's not really a "coding failure" because they made the change on purpose (it was documented in the README for the patch release.) But nonetheless, it was thereafter possible to gain more speed and distance (through subtle keyboard/mouse circle/strafe techniques, ramps, box jumps) and reach items (e.g. powerups) more easily than was intended in the original game design.

[@louiesalmon3932]

@@mailliw94 "Coding" is necessarily involved in all aspects of a game. It's literally all code. There's just no blanket statement that accounts for all cases.

[@Kumquat_Lord]

How about we make an "intended path" speedrun where you play the game as the developers intended in the linear fashion they provide?

[@parkerargyle4112]

Kumquat Lord Often, many games do have both. In Luigi’s Mansion for example, there’s a glitch that allows you to beat the game in less than 9 minutes, used for any%. After this was found, the previous route was still used for the category without this glitch, now called No OOB.

[@animosiity]

I’m all for this idea ! Mostly for oot , Doing this would bring a lot more people to the community as new players can have a friendly route and not get crushed by the pro speed runners. Trying to learn all the tricks would take years to even place on the top 20 For oot I would wonder tho if side jumping or walking backwards across hyrule cause clearly the devs never intended you to walk backwards every were , And that you are exploiting the render mechanic in the game

[@Kumquat_Lord]

@@animosiity I think that it would be allowed, as it's just for moving from place to place. I'm talking sequence breaking or location skips of any sort. Basically, just do a walkthrough

[@vinnieb977]

Animosity I’m in that boat where OoT and Mario 64 are some of my favorite games ever but the speedrun communities are so far along at this point that I’m better off just enjoying others doing the runs rather than attempt to be competitive. The randomized runs have had me thinking that getting into it could be fun tho.

[@Max_G4]

I too think that speedruns should be about beating the experience the developers have you as intended as fast as possible, without using skips or something, so that it really shows the skill you have in the core game, not the skill you have in doing 5 difficult unintended maneuvers correctly and actually only playing 10-20% of it.

[@ChannelOfSecondary]

Actually laughed out loud when i heard the mario 64 select music :)

[@joshuamitchell5018]

PARALEL UNIVERSES

[@twocows360]

same, was not expecting that but well played

[@AlbySilly]

Shoutout to Simpleflips

[@hps362]

Shaving 9 hours off a meme in the spirit of Christmas

[@tapeeater1553]

T.J. """"Henry"""" Yoshi

[@GramGramAnimations]

I always used the Poke Doll as a kid, I never knew there was a whole side mission. I was always so confused when Giovanni acted like we had met before, like wtf you don't know me bro

[@gafeht]

Lyla G "Side mission" You're triggering me

[@emperorehryn2370]

Why you lying

[@fractal_mind562]

I dont understand this comment ? What's the side mission?

[@fredericksaxton9782]

@@fractal_mind562 To get the silth scope to fight marowak.

[@HaydenRoberts08]

I was the other way around, I didn’t know you could use. Pokedoll until recently. I never used said dolls so I didn’t know what they did.

[@Deathborn2048]

Well in my opinion, and with OoT as an example, when someone is looking for a video of a glitchless speedrun, he propably just wants to see someone solving all the puzzles etc. in the intended way, very skillfully and fast. So glitchless speedruns should focus on exactly this.

[@sebastiangudino9377]

@Fab Elger i mean, a dev intended run of OOT would be kinda boring (It's pretty much just a walktrought) and it would take like 8 hours at least. I like the idea of dev intended in an already fast paced games, like super mario, celeste, super meat boy, super hot, sonic, etc. But it should not be the main category of every game, again, all zelda game have very fun and entertaining speedruns! Like have you ever seen a BOTW any%? And that is simply because gliches allow a non fast paced game to become fast paced, and that's where great speedruns live

[@Metrion77]

Exactly. There's speedrunning the game, where you run quickly through the game on the fastest route. You go into the maze and use logic and skill to solve the maze in the quickest route possible. Then there's glitchrunning, where you go from starting zone to end credits as fast as possible. You enter the maze, glitch between walls in a straight line to the exit.

[@Darling-su3ci]

Metrion77 that’s basically just a walk through though, if you wanna watch that watch 100% speed runs or glitchless runs. I’d argue, without much evidence honestly, that if you wanna watch speed runs you actually probably have either played the game or don’t care about seeing the majority of it and just wanna watch people break and push the game in max.

[@Metrion77]

@@Darling-su3ci The definition of a walkthrough is a guide. It is not a walkthrough.

[@Darling-su3ci]

Metrion77 yes but if you’re watching someone play the game in a not very quick manner you’re better of just watching a play through. You can always watch any% glitchless or 100% glitchless but any% with glitches is and always will be the most popular version of any games speed run.

[@Sadend]

This gives me flashbacks to that Mirrors edge speedrunner.

[@RoyalJester17]

here is a fun fact about me and pokemon: when i was a kid, playing pokemon yellow, i didn't know about the silph scope and tought the only way to do it was with the pokedoll. so for years i would always use a pokedoll and never get the silph scope (i didn't even know it existed). and yes, this was before the internet was a thing

[@b-d9099]

RoyalJester17 Hackerman

[@Earthboundmike]

I used the pokedoll once as a kid because I wanted to know if it worked on said ghost.

[@nicocchi]

Kinda the same for me, but internet was already a thing -that I didn't have regular access to, so in the end I discovered the glitch on my own-

[@revine9243]

if this was before the internet, then how did you know about that?

[@LinkEX]

@RevineYT I guess he read the description of the Pokedoll? If he still assumed that passing the Marowak mother was a puzzle that could be solved with any [other] item, he probably simply thought of what might qualify to pass a battle that can't be fought. It was essentially a situation like in Zelda 1, where you had to buy and use the bait to get rid of that one Hungry Goriya that couldn't be attacked, and instead stood in the room saying "Grumble, Grumble...".

[@nambona890]

5:55 you're not pannenkoek

[@whydoineedaname6492]

But first, we need to talk about parallel wall jumps...

[@treasury3805]

vottom bext

[@emolovetree]

Pannenkoek has made it so when I hear that song I think of him and not Mario 64 select screen

[@parkouremaster]

Well tj "nambona890" yoshi.

[@b-d9099]

Dreams are just alternate realities.

[@SHiFTss]

Nice opening clip lol One sick thing about the clip that people probably didn't notice is that bowling shot before the thunder boost. It's used to hit an invisible button to skip paying for a challenge leading up to a spatula

[@kirjian]

5:55 even the "you see, ..." is very pannenkoek-esque. Great video!

[@BlinkLed]

Those last two minutes are basically exactly how I feel. I think more specifically defined categories will usually be more fun than a vague "glitchless" categories. People want glitchless categories for all different reasons. If you want a run that completes most of the game, you can do something like OoT MST. If you want a run that completes the game without crazy game breaking stuff like OoB and Memory exploits, you can make a No Major Glitches category and specifically say what is and isn't allowed, to leave no debate.

[@9bladesofice]

If I ever get into speedrunning (which might never happen due to me thinking I'm only slightly better than average) I would play absolute glitchless and end up with a ton of time at the end though at least I'd have the satisfaction that I completed the game completely like the developers wanted. I feel like a complete glitchless category should be added for every game to get real times rather than crazily low times because of exploits or glitches. This video was really interesting though.

[@ShikenNuggets]

For a lot of games a "complete glitchless category" would be basically impossible. The vast majority of games I've played that were released in the last 2 decades have had at least one very noticeable bug through a casual playthrough. Not being allowed to have ANY glitches happen under ANY circumstances for several hours or you have to start from the beginning is a pretty absurd requirement (and would be literally impossible for many games), and I highly doubt anyone actually interested in speedrunning would want to do that (and even if they did, I can't imagine them wanting to do it more than once). Another thing, completing the game "completely like the developers wanted" also means not skipping any cutscenes. And actually paying attention to the story and dialogue. And a slew of other things that are great if you're doing a casual playthrough, but are completely contradictory to the goals of a speedrun. And how do you know you're doing it exactly the way the developers wanted? What do the developers want? And why does their opinion matter? Playing the game "completely like the developers wanted" basically means a casual playthrough. There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing a casual playthrough, but I don't think every speedrunning leaderboard for every game should arbitrarily be forced to have what is essentially a "casual playthrough" category, because a casual playthrough is simply not a speedrun.

[@bweansFGC]

NetWalkthroughs Maybe have skipless runs?

[@isaacthered]

There are a lot of gray areas as to what the developers intended though. A good example is the 3DS port of Ocarina of Time. A time-saving glitch was present in the N64 version known as a HESS (Hyper Extended Super Slide) where by abusing bomb mechanics, you could gain large amounts of backwards momentum and travel much faster than intended. Originally, the glitch was removed from the 3DS version, but the beta testers complained about the removal, and the programmers put it back in. So, is HESSing in the 3DS version of OoT intended or not? It was clearly a glitch in the N64 version, and the programmers never wanted to put it in in the first place, but they did edit the code with the intention of making HESSes possible. There are also games where it's literally impossible to beat them as the developers intended. The best example of this is Pokémon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. It is very clear that you are intended to catch every Pokémon in the game (Gotta Catch 'Em All is the slogan, after all), but there's a problem with that. There are a few Pokémon that were only available glitchless through special events where you would get a Pokémon by going to a physical location and having your save file edited for buying merchandise at a certain store or going to the theatrical showing of a Pokémon movie, or through a Global Link event where if you entered a certain code at a certain time, you would get a Pokémon. Both methods were shut down shortly after the release of Pokémon X/Y, and have been inactive for 4 years. There are also large speedrunning communities for ROM hacks, and the developers certainly never wanted that to happen.

[@petermichaelgreen]

And even getting a full set of the non-event pokemon requires playing multiple games and using trading/transfer mechanisms because no one game has them all.

[@cieele]

Another game with controversy for its glitchless category is NieR: Automata. There is an exploit called Skype Glitch which prevents the ringer from happening when somebody calls you, and it skips directly to their dialogue. This is activated by being fast in reaching one area of the game, as you interrupt the dialogue of somebody who calls you, with character dialogue for reaching a new area. As the current world record holder for “all major endings” phrases it, “Would the ruling be you aren’t allowed to go fast?” Thoughts on this matter?

[@SiloSimon]

Yeah I mean if it literally only happens because you got there fast without using any glitches, it would be super dumb to ban skipping that.

[@texasgun2731]

how about fuck twin galaxies. who cares what a staff of columbine shooters lookalikes think

[@Mylexsi]

Hi. I ran NieR:Automata for a while. The general consensus on the point on you raised it - which was reached very quickly - was "if we wanted to avoid it, you'd have to just stand around waiting, and that's dumb". The actual discussion came about because if you triggered Skype glitch during one playthrough, it would persist through resets until you outright closed the game, and would therefore be present right from the beginning of subsequent playthroughs, saving time in places where it would not normally be possible to have triggered it by that point in the game (e.g. it would save ~15s during the opening shmup segment). It was decided that any instance of skype glitch was okay but only on the condition that it was triggered within the run that benefitted from it. The rationale being: 1) If a run is allowed to benefit from something done in a previous run, should we count the time spent triggering the glitch in your run's time? If so, how exactly would we even time that? Difficult question 2) Should a run even be allowed to benefit from something done outside of the run in the first place? Some categories in other games allow it (like Skyward Sword's save file shenanigans), but we figured no, on the grounds that it opens the floodgates to all sorts of dubious grey-area shit. 3) It takes several minutes to trigger the glitch from scratch and it would just be annoying have to trigger it every time you booted up the game.

[@cieele]

And then that further leads down the slippery path of “what constitutes a glitch, what doesn’t,” which is what EZscape posited in this video. Thank you very much for bringing up your response!

[@abloogywoogywoo]

That's a skip, or a trick, and true not the way the developer intended, it shouldn't really be banned from a glitch run.

[@Echoesoftimelover]

0:00 A miserable pile of data. But enough talk, have at you!

[@Schicksal1988]

Good video! Next "Why do some 100% speedruns don't get 100% of the items?" or "Is RNG manipulation a glitch?". Fun topics to argue about. :)

[@Evarakeus]

RNG manipulation is most certainly not a glitch, as it is dependent on the game working as intended. When manipulating RNG, you're using meta knowledge of the game's code to produce favorable outcomes; if the game code isn't working properly, or "as intended", then the RNG manipulation would not work. It is however very much an exploit, and banning it is fair

[@sebastiangudino9377]

@@Evarakeus It more than an exploit tho. The random number generator is intended to generate numbers at random, you are manipulating that to your advantage. And you might say, oh but that's just how computers work, nothing to do about that. But then again, Super Mario 64 "Paralel Universes" exist due to the way the N64 round float numbers. So with the previuous logic they are "Intended Behaviour" that we just happen to exploit? While glitch and exploit keep being concepts dependant on "Intendedness" (A verh subjective term) we will never get a clear picture of what is and isn't a glitch

[@bain8renn]

100% speedruns dont mean 100% of the items, it means 100% of the games tasks, if that makes sense. Some do have all items collected, but most dont really

[@TeemoQuinton]

@@bain8renn Like Doom demos doing "100%" [and getting allowed???] when not even 100% of enemies were killed [it happens] or 100% of items [something I meme about]

[@bain8renn]

Zira Tival One example I can give is new super mario bros wii. you know how you can get powerups in houses and they gwt stored? well in 100% you dont get those things, however, you DO get it in a category extension known as "Max%" that very few people have run.

[@alexandergee4677]

Wait.... There's a OOT category called Dank%

[@Diminisherrr]

:)

[@Viviantoga]

There's also "Go home and die%," "4 Bae RTA," "All Cows," "37 Water Temple Keys," and most amusingly, "No doors."

[@dont-feed-ben4833]

Missed opportunity for 420%

[@ScottJFox]

no doors? 37 water temple keys ... ????? oh my god i have new videos to watch

[@gaarassand19]

don't-feed-ben dank% is the 420%

[@jeffreycanfield1939]

Could you make a list of speedruns that were supposed to be glitchless and were on pace for being a good run but were ruined because a glitch occurred? i.e. Accidentally clipping through a wall or something

[@ramoelleusrs6678]

MistaTwoJeffreyTwenty Yaay hi XD

[@jeffreycanfield1939]

RS Extreme Lmfao, I guess you do see me everywhere. Make sure to reply to all my comments so we can keep a "streak", haha

[@EZScape]

That only seldomly happens, if ever at all. Most glitches that are used for timesave are pretty easy to avoid, and any others are usually not banned if they are not easily avoidable. Any glitches outside of the ones that speedrunners abuse would slow their time down and cause for a reset anyways. So there really aren't any clips of people resetting glitchless runs because they accidentally perform a glitch other than the fact that the glitch will lose them too much time to keep doing the run. I did see a clip once of a GTA speedrunner accidentally entering a cheat before, but that was about it.

[@jeffreycanfield1939]

EZScape OK, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it!

[@EZScape]

+General Sotheny that's not anything I've talked about in the comments or the video, but in the context of your question, speedrunning Bethesda games is indeed possible.

[@herbdean2870]

Man your videos have such incredible production quality. Keep it up!

[@FrankTheTank107]

Speed running using glitches and exploits of any kind are fine as long as it sits in its own class. . Just like you don't see people racing each other with bikes and cars in the same race, but each are considered nice to watch by some people

[@MonoKabi]

Dingdingding. I don't care who likes their games glitchy, but you gotta keep the categories separate.

[@CurseFern]

I remember the "glitchless" Mirror's Edge on SGDQ

[@Darling-su3ci]

Fab Elger it’s speed running, not a walk through or 100% or glitchless. All of which already exist so you have those categories. They won’t become the main kind because that’s not what people wanna watch.

[@PokeMario-pk4ot]

Sonic 06 glitchless, one glitch and you reset Nice try doing that

I remember watching a casual run where the final boss was glitched and gave him an instant win

[@hightensionjapanesegoblin9821]

Late reply, but thats impossible. Sonics cordinates are glitched, making the run dead as soon as the cutscenes end

[@nobro_i_ate_u]

Your videos are getting better and better, congratulations man!

[@vj7248]

Basically, instead of a “glitchless” category It should be “no crazy difficult to pull off exploits that take 6hrs of practice to do”

[@GamerKey91]

@Falb Elger: Make it happen. Suggest it for a game and start running it. Whining that other people are doing something you personally do not enjoy is retarded.

[@AtomicArtumas]

6 hours? pffft most actually difficult exploits are inconsistent at best, and take literal weeks of practice to do even semi-consistently. There's a reason most runners have extra save files specifically to practice certain glitches every single time they start doing runs.

[@EmersonFitts]

V J bruh I learned how to blj in less than an hour

[@fahkyew7776]

Backwards long jumping is a relatively simple glitch to pull off.

[@urfork1]

@Fab Elger illIm tryna do a soul silver dev intended, 8 gyms, e4, 8 gyms, red would be hype

[@BangerGames]

The start was a fantastic explanation. Bravo sir bravo

[@nahnah390]

Is there a category called say, "skipless"? Because I find a few glitches entertaining and everything, and I certainly don't mind sequence breaking, but I can't help but wonder if it'd like say... "You're allowed to use whatever glitches you want, as well as sequence breaks, but you still need to pick up required items and fight required bosses." Which is usually why I like watching 100% speedruns as a majority as it is. But by its very nature, 100% has to be community defined as often games don't give you an explicit percentage when you collect things, and even if they do, they're sometimes not counting things that might very well be considered as something for completionists.

[@Mngalahad]

nahnah390 you sometimes see certain flags in runs. Like in pokemon it says the time they had when they reached brock, misty, safari zone... But what is a major event? What if you skip mid bosses? Is that a major event? What if you still beat all bosses but dont get the keys to open the right doors? The problem is the name. They could call it glitchless- SDA 2017 and then list the overly specific rules below, to avoid controversy. For instance, that dude who got his glitchless run stolen in red, his run could still be called glitchless and then they could have made another one called glitchless (no text speed up). Are the names overly complicated? yes, but only as much as the rules from the run.

[@metallsnubben]

”skipless” is a tricky name because skipping as much as you can is kinda the definition of speedrunning, but I get the spirit of what you’re after and it’s definitely a thing! It’s done in two main ways, and they’re sort of different. One is where you just ban the specific skip(s) and explicitly call the category ”Any% no flight skip” or ”no major skips” whatever. You get specific, leave the floor open for other cool tricks within those constraints. Limitation is that you gotta make new categories for every new discovered ”uncool” skip if your goal was actually to get to see certain content Second one I see is ”All levels/bosses/dungeons”, specifying extra content without going up to 100%, but not blocking the order or way you access it. Inverse issue here of course, if the ”uncool” part was the trick itself and not the content you missed. Like how Metroid Prime can be done 100% while being out of bounds almost all the time, so they made ”no OoB” a thing It’s technically 100% I suppose, but I’m reminded of SM64 120 star where they glitch through walls and doors a ton to avoid cutscenes and animations, but still visit every place by the end.

[@ThaJallis]

For Dark Souls 3 there is a category called All Bosses (No Major Skips). It basically keeps all fun glitches while removing annoying and hard area skips.

[@bleppss2769]

They are often game specific. I know ocarina of time has a run like that but I forget what it’s called Edit: it’s all dungeons kinda obvious but yeah

[@paradoxzee6834]

Would 100% be skipless?

[@TheChuosta]

Wow, such an informative and professional video! Gj, thanks man!

[@n0lain]

I love how you started playing the pannenkoek music as soon as you started explaining walljumping

[@saibot9595]

Is there any Mirror's Edge "Glitchless" Speedrun that is actually Glitchless?

[@ThaRixer]

Depends what you define as a glitch.

[@rockwitharms7455]

ThaRixer yeah, which is the subject of the video

[@semmlbroesel]

Yeah, there was talk about a category called "True Glitchless", but nobody runs it because it isn't fun and it's basically impossible for a Mirror's Edge speedrunners to not use SideJumpBoosts (as that's mostly a reflex) or wallboosting (as you'd have to not jump off any walls because that would get you questioned if you gained an unreasonable boost). If you wanted speedrunners to play the game in a way that a new player that already knows the route would play the game, then yeah, you won't find that I'm pretty sure. Even a new person did a run, they would most likely accidently do some of the exploits without even knowing it, like if they ever used a sidejump and turned their camera or jumped off a wall too fast and looked into the wall just a slight bit. Even in "True Glitchless", there would be some things people consider glitches or exploits.

[@BlinkLed]

It really comes down to a common problem with speedruns where you can run any category with any definition you want, the question is whether or not anyone else would actually want to run it. For example, in Hyper Light Drifter, there is no 100% category, instead there is a 99% category. It collects everything in the game save for three specific items. Two of them require doing a pretty precise movement technique called chain dashing 800 times in a row without missing, which takes several minutes and is extremely unfun to watch, do and is very easy to screw up and lose minutes, and the other is from a very long end game sidequest involving five ten-wave arenas which are heavily luck based, and also take an extremely long time to do with a high potential for losing due to no fault of your own and losing minutes. So as much as I would love to see a true 100% run, no one wants to do it because it adds a ton of difficulty, tedium, and luck to an already extremely difficult run.

[@semmlbroesel]

Yeah, another example for this is the Witness speedrunning. Where the 100% category requires you to watch a 50 Minute (or so) video. They have a 99.8% Category because of that where they do everything but that last thing because it's dumb.

[@theSato]

tfw people think that pannenkoek owns the SM64 file select music

[@okey7281]

no, but i'm pretty sure it was an intentional refrence considering the background and everything

[@Applesgosh]

no i'm 100% sure he owns it

[@JorgetePanete]

okey reference* or did you mean reFrance?

[@jeschoofs]

He should by now

[@izame5057]

Sato the way he was doing it in reference to a video made by panenkoek, Watch for Rolling Rocks, in the part where he explains how he did it .5 a presses

[@jysaw1]

loved this video. very informative and entertaining. keep it up man

[@theboneybrown2563]

I love that Pannenkoek impersonation you did when explaining the SMB1 wall jump mechanic!

[@davidbaird4606]

Great vid as usual!

[@_Molecule]

I couldn't agree more with the point you've made about Mirror's Edge. I feel they've made and accepted the true nature of speedruns, similar to the 007 Goldeneye runners.

[@dragonforcerules288]

Molecule not taking fall damage is quite clearly a glitch my dude.

[@mikevismyelement]

That Link bomb example should be 100% legal. It's just a solid understanding of the game's mechanics coupled with creativity

[@JoshenBits]

A very informative, in depth analysis of a controversial topic within the speedrunning community. Love it! Keep up the good job, bro!

[@Tanerion]

Entertainment and skill are bigger draws to me personally than speed. I'd be perfectly fine watching a several days long stream of some guy going through a game showing off every single trick and glitch in a game. I'm not big on speedruns but I love seeing glitches or displays of skill in a game and it kinda sucks how much of that we're not seeing because all the effort goes into finding the shortest possible routes. So we usually see less and less of it as people find more efficient routes.

[@MaoMavo]

Competition leads to innovation though, without it you would have less players and audience and less incentive for people to care

[@Tanerion]

I like competition and don't mind people trying to outdo each other but competition and innovation within the context of speedruns is mainly limited to getting the fastest times. Sometimes they find something else by accident that doesn't work for speedruns and it's usually promptly forgotten.

[@MaoMavo]

but it's not only that, there are also people that look into the code and test things out to find more things, these people want their tricks (and names) to be implemented into speedruns. without competition you would have less of them for sure. they also find glitches that are unrelated to speedruns.

[@Tanerion]

Either way we don't get to see many glitches and trick from them if they aren't relevant to speedruns.

[@MaoMavo]

then you have to stop watching speedruns and search for glitches, watch them one time and be done with them

[@oniinu]

Funnily enough, EZ states that glitchess categories were created to boost entertainment value, but I actually find those to be the least entertaining. Half of the reason I watch speedruns (and, particularly, TAS's) is to see what inventive ways they have broken the game and done silly stuff.

[@TompaA]

Well, there are many exceptions to this. The glitched category of Super Mario World, where you beat the game in less than a minute, can be enjoyable and surprising the first time around, but keep seeing it over and over again, will drop its value, entertaining wise. In such case, a more restricted category works better. Same goes with the any% category for A Link to the Past, 1½ minute which is mostly just Link walking and then a little trick to clip into a wall. It's a very boring run that practically no one wants to play. But of course, there are many variations of the category. I mostly prefer runs that use some kind of glitch in it. Super Mario Bros. any% will be completely worthless to do a glitchless category for, while it works great in Ocarina of Time. All depends =).

[@karlhendrikse]

If a game has an extremely short and boring any% run, my personal preference is to just forget about speedruns of that game. There are plenty of other games. Makes more sense than making up imprecise rules just to artificially make things "interesting". The community can give themselves a big pat on the back; that game is now "solved". Next.

[@hoodedman6579]

+Karl Hendrikse That's not how it works; people speedrun games because they like the game, not just to "solve" it. They want to keep playing it in a somewhat interesting way, which is why they make the new categories.

[@9bladesofice]

Also just to add on to this a little for Super Mario World the way it was beaten quickly was directly through using the game's code in an interesting way which could theoretically mean that through doing interesting unintended actions that affect the game's coding any game could be beaten quick by exploiting the game to the point of showing the end which in my opinion is interesting the first time but would be really annoying to see speedrun since it's basically the same thing over and over only just so slightly faster though if it's it's own category then it would be possible at least. I do actually think though that it's possible in the future that more 1:00-5:00 runs will be discovered just be using the game's own code against it (but getting more complicated as you get closer to the present games presumably). I could be entirely wrong about this but it somehow really feels like it's the case. Also for some games you wouldn't even need to use the game's coding specifically like in portal where the mechanics of the portals were really odd and allowed you to zoom through the game super quickly without even needing to mess with the internal game's code directly.

[@XSpamDragonX]

Ody -Chan I find Mirror's Edge Any % to be basically unwatchable because of how dreadfully boring it is. Sure it's cool to see the first out of bounds trick, but when the whole run is just bypassing the entire game it kinda makes everything meaningless. If 80% of the run is staring at a skybox, how is that any different than any other game? Mirror's Edge Any % is just too broken, and there's nothing special about any part of it.

[@TheLemonyBard]

Liking that music by Vanilla in the background, good vid as always.

[@Duraludon884]

In the Skylanders speedrunning community, for glitchless rulesets we define "glitches" as something that skips a part of the level you're not supposed to skip. For example, there's a glitch in Skylanders: Trap Team Chapter 12 where you can move during a cutscene that you shouldn't be able to move in. It's a glitch that anyone can do, and if you do it too fast you'll softlock the game. Compare this to the double jump glitch, dash cancel, or wall fricking, where you can skip sections of the level, like not fighting the first Villain. Under these rules, Poké Doll wouldn't be allowed because it skips the Silth Scope, but Instant Text and the Mirror's Edge glitches (wall boosts, no fall damage and whatever else you mentioned) would be allowed because they're easy (talk to an NPC) and don't skip anything. We talked about this during my run of STT Any% Glitchless in No Glitches Allowed 4, as well as a lot of "you skip this part in glitched."

[@blunderbus2695]

The way I see it: Intended mechanic, intended result: normal play Unintended mechanic, unintended result: glitch Intended mechanic, unintended result: exploit Unintended mechanic, intended result: who even cares you get the right result anyway

[@lextatertotsfromhell7673]

Flash-Flire so I use a game genie and get the intended result of Winning

[@yonatanbeer3475]

What about glitches that abuse intended mechanics? What about glitches like the pause glitch in MegaMan 1? Is that an exploit now?

[@systemafunk]

​@@yonatanbeer3475 You said it yourself, that is a glitch. And it's pretty obviously a glitch. The reason that happens is because pausing resets some timer or variable against what it should be, allowing some weapons to trigger damage again. Glitches have to be defined in some way with an understanding of game programming and game physics. In Mega Man 1, the game physics expectation is that weapons hit each enemy once. Anything else is inconsistent game physics, and while being able to pause the game is obviously a normal game mechanic, unfortunately it also resets an aspect of the game physics that makes the game operate not as intended. I think that's what the table is getting at. Breaking it up into intended/unintended mechanic intended/unintended result may not always make sense. It's very similar to the Vanish/Doom trick in FF6. in FF6 Vanish makes a character or enemy have 100% evade, but also causes magic to always hit (which is a strange choice to begin with). This means that insta kill skills like Doom an X-Zone will always hit rather than their usual low probability. This wouldn't be that bad, except it also has the effect of ignoring a check for being outright resistant to death skills. The problem is the trick allows you to instantly kill almost any boss, regardless of level. While the mechanic itself seems intended because they intentionally made Vanish cause magic to never miss, the result is clearly not. At that point it makes more sense to talk about the actual specific "skill" or "move" as a mechanic in and of itself, because while Vanish is a legitimate skill, Doom is a legitimate skill, and using vanish to improve magic accuracy is a legitimate mechanic, the combination allows you to literally sidestep the fact that bosses are coded to never be insta killed. Vanish+Doom itself, as a unit, is not an intended game mechanic. Another way to look at it might be to say that all mechanics that should be involved in the process are involved, including game physics, and working as intended. The pause glitch from Mega Man 1 sidesteps the game mechanic of enemy or character invulnerability periods and weapons hitting only once. The Vanish/Doom glitch sidesteps the game mechanic of boss invulnerability to death skills. In fact, you can look at the absence of those mechanics (the resetting of the attack or the check for death invulnerability) as them not working as intended. To me as a programmer that makes sense, but some people might have an easier time thinking of it as a mechanic that should be there and is not. But again, that's why they have to be defined with some understanding of the underlying programming or game design. Glitches, hard glitches or soft glitches, always have to do with programming gone awry. It gets more murky when dealing with simulated physics, but it's still technically there. This is far different than simple sequence breaking. To use Super Metroid as an example, you can wall jump to get to a fair amount of areas you aren't supposed to. You can actually make it through a significant amount of Maridia that way. But that's just a weakness (or strength maybe?) of the level design. You're using intended game physics with no involved unintentional mechanics (or uninvolved intentional mechanics) to get from point A to point be in a way that the level designers did not see coming. For whatever reason they put Wall Jumping in the game even though it is never required or revealed to you, so if you can wall jump and skip an area or get a powerup early, then that's an exploit. No breaking of the game physics. The same can happen with the Ice Beam.

[@ehx3419]

@Chris Wood FYI, Wall Jumping and Bomb Jumping was 100% accounted for in the Metroid games. Sequence breaking is an intended option and differs from the "intended" sequence in that it requires tricks the developers considered "advanced".

[@systemafunk]

No, they absolutely did not account for all the possible options that wall jumping enables. Just because they considered wall jumping advanced doesn't mean they intended for people to use it to get to some areas of lower brinstar in the way that you can. You can even use just wall jumping to get a bunch of items in Maridia before you are supposed to be there. I mean, you can absolutely tell they did not intended for you to get all the way to the top of the vertical passage in lower Brinstar with the breakable ceiling. It is very, very difficult to do. And navigating Maridia without the Gravity Suit is even harder. Don't make up stuff.

[@curtisbrown547]

My thing is that i dont mind speedruns having glitches so long as the optimal run still includes actually playing the game. I dont enjoy watching runs like doom 2016 where they basically circumvent the entire 'game' part of the game thanks to boundary breaks

[@OtepRalloma]

Those kinds of runs aren't meant to be fun to watch, they're meant to test one's limits. Which may be fun to people with "how things work... or don't work" mindsets

[@systemafunk]

Right. In theory most games probably have a glitch that hasn't been discovered that would allow a memory leak and could let you alter game variables or running code. Meaning you could potentially find a way to just warp to the end or past a lot of content. That's exactly what happens in Mega Man 1, where there is a glitch that involves you jumping above the level and moving around and something glitches into memory and/or changes game code. You can literally trigger almost anything. Warping to the boss. Refilling all your weapons. Crashing the game. Tons of graphical glitches. Reverting to the title screen. Becoming invulnerable. Moving you move much faster. At that point isn't not much different than hacking the game.

[@OtepRalloma]

It's sorta different, though I get what you mean. The main difference is that hacking the game usually means externally messing with the code rather than finding something within the game to mess with it. Which is honestly pretty interesting in itself. For example, someone turned Mario into Flappy Bird. But I guess that's where lines between different glitched runs become important. ALttP has a glitch that lets you skip straight to the Triforce room. But there are other ways to play ALttP with glitches while ignoring that specific glitch. It's p hard to put a handle on semi-glitched runs but as long as the goal of the run is met (be it to test the game's limits or to be fun to watch), there's nothing to lose

[@systemafunk]

@@OtepRalloma True, semi glitched runs get weird, though it does seem necessary once you start allowing glitches since some are potentially game breaking and trivializing. And I agree that I wouldn't actually call it hacking, though there are a fair amount of glitches used that have involved actually looking at disassembled code and other hacking tools... Mostly I guess my concern was that once you get into glitches like that, to where you actually change game-space memory or code, is it still the same game?

[@OtepRalloma]

@@systemafunk Technically, yes? But the "Spirit of the game" argument is the solution to that I feel, UNLESS you're deliberately aiming for 100% screw the rules

[@ImSquiggs]

5:55 Lmao at the Pannenkoek style explanation. These videos are awesome.

[@aydennuula979]

Super interesting insights as always. One overly simple way of trying to curb all the confusion would be to create 3 separate catagories being glitchless, exploit% (already called no major glitches but that's a mouthful), and any%; but as you mention that would still cause issues because some exploits skirt so so very close to being considered intentional gameplay. Still, the thought strikes me as a good way to organize the categories.

[@rosejuliette9180]

For me I really like glitchless even if there are some glitches. The main glitches I am not a fan of when watching a run are save corruptions and oob glitches. I respect the skill but often it makes my eyes hurt 😂😂

[@gyorg3407]

Donkey Kong 64 Any% is a great example were the speedrun got less and less exciting to watch as new glitches kept coming.

[@deaththekid922]

i agree , i have seen a video beating DK64 with 0 bananas , was quite fun to watch the runner unlock diddy and tiny in the Castle boss fight , but that run with invisible dk just isnt a speedrun anymore

[@zackrose6261]

Right, like, as more and more skip glitches arrise, it just starts to be boring to watch. :/

[@AndrewJW]

excellent video, very entertaining and informative. Great Job :)

[@joshuamoyer4141]

The Poke Doll is not working as intended when used to flee the ghost battle. When you escape from the battle, you normally take a step backwards and will re-encounter the ghost if you walk towards the stairs. The Poke doll bypasses the ghost entirely, meaning it is functioning differently from a normal escape from battle. This makes it a glitch.

[@genroynoisis6980]

Personally, I think that glitchless speedruns don't have: 1. Out of bounds interaction (eg portal 1 wr elevator) 2. Anything that causes 1 item to be bugged and/or doing something else than what it is meant to do *by the game's code.* (like a sword being able to hit far away enemies). And 3. Anything that causes a shift in what you do in-game by a considerable amount. The bomb skip is fine as you can already hold a bomb above your head in the game. However, you cannot make that same bomb collide into another object (metaphorically) and let's say, explode across the map. I think that it is not using the item correctly by the game's code (collision) and isn't something you can do normally without the use of another object. And so that's my idea of glitchless speedruns. Not perfect so feel free to comment.

[@deaththekid922]

i agree on your definition , the major point about glitchless is that you still see most of the game without breaking too many sequences ( like obtaining epona by bomb hovering over a wall isnt exactly glitchless , but using a quickkill for Morpha by forcing him into the corner and then crouch stabbing him with the hammer is fine since its a vallid tactic anyone can try at home , same goes for this trick here : kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJKanZtmmJ6bl6s its just using the knowledge that Link gets knocked back by jump attacking walls to your advantage , not a glitch

[@genroynoisis6980]

Minene Uryuu922 I PC Masterrace I What I was essentially saying was 'glitches aren't allowed but exploits are' so yeah, I don't think that exploits necessarily count as glitches and can therefore be accepted as glitchless. But then again, there is bug limit and glitchless (which should totally be called glitchless and no bug imo). I think this has actually been sorted out very nicely by he speed running community

[@ShikenNuggets]

This is really just a technicality, but if you're going by the game's code, anything the game lets you do is allowed. Regardless of whatever bugs, glitches, exploits, etc. are occuring, the code itself is doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing. However, it may not be doing what the programmers intended it to be doing (which is why it's usually the developer's intentions are usually what's brought up, rather than the code). "Anything that causes a shift in what you do in-game by a considerable amount" That is INCREDIBLY vague. A "shift in what you do in-game" is just a fancy way of saying "it changes something". Switching levels could be considered a "shift". Switching from the main gameplay to a mini-game could be considered a "shift". And what is a "considerable amount"? How do you measure that? This is the problem with making blanket rules. Ultimately it has to come down to the individual game, and the individual glitch, to determine what is allowed or not. Vague statements like yours may sound good on paper, but they just lead to inconsistent interpretations and rulings, which is exactly the problem that Twin Galaxies had.

[@Gaxhar]

Literally anything the game does is by the game's code, including every glitch ever discovered.

[@animowany111]

I'd argue that getting boosted with that shield knockback is not a glitch. It's at most an exploit, just like getting extra range in midair due to bomb knockback. A glitch involves breaking program code, so something like going out of bounds, wrong warping, exploiting unintended side effects of code (like SMW cloud - chucks are inedible, but if you eat them you get cloud), and so on.

[@9bladesofice]

But it is a glitch in the sense that the developers didn't intend it to be used whatsoever. The bomb knockback was intentionally made to make the game more realistic (without it the game would be strange if you placed a bomb and it had no effect on Link) yet then people came up with the idea to use that momentum making it an exploit since the developers always wanted the bomb to have an effect they just didn't realize that it could be used to skip through areas. They both have the same effect skipping the mid boss fight but there are differences between them.

[@hi-i-am-atan]

+animoewany111 This comment is a great example of why making the dichotomy "exploit vs glitch" rather than "exploit vs _major_ glitch" is dumb and makes glitch a non-word and utterly pointless. See, you just explained why the shield knockback boost is a glitch while trying to say it isn't one by saying "well this glitch isn't causing my N64 to catch on fire, so it can't be a glitch!" In the end, though, it's still something going awry and causing an unintended result - which is exactly what a glitch _is,_ in fact the main thing distinguishing a glitch from similar errors is that a glitch is _resolved quickly._ In that way, clipping out of bounds into the void is what _should_ be debated as a glitch with pedants, whereas the shield boost is something that should be used as an example for a normal glitch. So, yeah, is the shield boost a exploit in terms of exploits vs major glitches? Yeah, sure, I can see that, although it does seem borderline enough to warrant discussion. But is an exploit, meaning not a glitch? If you say that, you should really remove yourself from any discussion regarding this and go into programming yourself, so you can finally get the context as to why that's so incredibly wrong.

[@animowany111]

+Arctangent I am a programmer myself, but not a game designer. My belief is that design oversights are not glitches, and glitches are programmer errors/exceptional conditions in program code. If there's some faster method of movement the developers/designers didn't intend/think through, that's not a glitch in itself, that's an oversight, but might lead to exploits or glitches later. For example, you could exploit this oversight of faster movement to perform skips, like jump over gaps larger than the designers intended, or you could cause a glitch by moving faster than the game programmers intended, breaking collision or causing some load area to glitch out.

[@hi-i-am-atan]

+animoewany111 The thing is, this doesn't really fit for the shield boosting at all. You're arguing as if we're talking about if rolling every due to it being faster was a glitch, but we're not - we're talking about a glitch that ( as far as I understand it ) basically makes it so something that's meant to give momentum to Link and then hurt him so it can't affect him again instead applies the momentum while he can't be hurt so it ends up applying it multiples times and sends him flying. Sure, this still just results in faster movement, but it's pretty blatant that this faster movement stems from something going awry, not just because the movement technique is just faster. You can compare it to rocket jumping in Quake, one of the classic examples of a potential glitch so borderline that's it's really hard to tell _what_ it is: both of these use momentum granted by an explosion to achieve unintended movement, but whereas rocket jumping is just making use of the fact that explosions give significant knockback, this uses a trick to make it so that you get far more knockback from an explosion than normal while in a state you're not supposed to be in during that knockback, cementing it firmly as a glitch.

[@9bladesofice]

Also animowany111 by that logic you're saying that both shield boosting and the bomb explosion are exploits while getting to the new area is a glitch yet the bomb explosion isn't an exploit since that was intentional. It's how something intentional is used to reach a new a place that makes it an exploit in comparison using something the developers didn't know about and still reaching the same place puts it's higher up it terms of it being a glitch. That's at least what EZScape was trying to show.

[@WhiteIceHawk]

Man yor ending speech always makes me happy and you can her, that you mean it

[@benperschall6648]

Great video! Keep up the good work!

[@TABBYMUSIC]

*_”Skate 3 glitchless run”_*

[@mr_pants278]

This is a prime example of why "No Major Glitches" or "No Major Skips" categories exist. They allow speedrunning with all the little, as you rightly called them, exploits, without completely busting the game wide open with credits warps and the like. Take, for example, the "No Exploration Glitch" category for Loz: Link to the Past. It allows every other glitch, with the exception of the Exploration Glitch, which allows you to travel unhindered across the inter-connected dungeon map and basically anywhere you want, because all caves in the game are connected. It still allows all the other glitches, it just restricts the one glitch that makes the run a pointless mess. Don't get me wrong, people will still enjoy a full on Any%, myself included, but when it gets to the point of effectively manipulating code, there's something that should probably be looked at, lol.

[@NamesEvad]

Hay dude! ThaRixer mentioned you during his AGDQ Ratchet & Clank speedrun! Right at the end of his run he thanks you for including him in your vid!

[@mads9112]

no youtuber has ever told me to have a "beautiful life" before. subbed

[@SirValiantIII]

Oh my god “Dank%” 😂

[@lifeiaskedfor]

so im just gonna say my part on glitchless speedrunning. If i wanted to play without any exploits or "grey areas" as some people call them then i would just play the game casually but i prefer to run glitchless category to see the grey areas, to learn bout those developer oversights. I speedrun to play the game in a different way, if i wanted to play legit% then i would just play the game casually with a timer. That being said if that's not what you want in your glitchless speedruns that that's fine too, but i'm only saying my two cents in the matter. Thank you and have a nice day

[@metallsnubben]

Yeah for just playing and challenging yourself to have fun, whatever restrictions you want with the timer is a great idea! The problem is of course when you have an official category, since you gotta have well defined rules for all the other people who want to compete and research, and can’t just rely on that ”honour” that you have to yourself But I’ve only done those casual with timer ”runs” myself, and it’s so much fun. I want to do a ”proper” speedrun at some point too, but no reason for one to exclude the other :)

[@zackrose6261]

@Metalsnubben, Too be fair, speedrunning, in my eyes, is an excuse for most people to abuse glitches and show how unskilled they are. ^~^ Course, that's me cause I find glitches easy to pull off.

[@sketchditty1054]

This video is really cool good job!

[@conspiraciesarejustgreatst2059]

EZ, if you were to use your talents for things that make everyday life better or more consistent than you will absolutely be a massive success. What I mean is your great at understanding what's supposed to happen and what the outcome is as well as being fantastic at making analogies and comparisons to help explain complex things to people like me who have a hard time understanding both sides of the story. Keep up the good work man. If you decide to keep your talents in the gaming world I'll be just as happy as if you were to apply them to problems like the modern credit system, today's kids perception of what's morally right and wrong, medical field, etc. Your gonna go far in whatever you choose as long as you handle it the same way you handle gaming and speed running

[@ghak_5247]

D A N K %

[@cookieninja900]

*S* *U* *C* *C* *%*

[@the1whoplayz]

2:30 til you introduce yourself. You got a New WR.

[@rockwitharms7455]

TheOneWhoPlays maybe a personal record, but not world

[@hamburg4690]

Its similar to saying that you got a Guiness world record, while you didnt even submit it to them.

[@rexbk09]

Very informative as good science and intuitive. Thanks!

[@redmuscle99]

Miyamoto: "Wall jumping is a feature of my game, it says so in the game manual" Twin Galaxies: "I'm about to end this man's whole career"

[@zxGHOSTr]

I hope you have a beautiful life.

[@ingamrvr]

"Intended" (No glitch or exploit, go through the game as the developer expected) "Limited" (Can have several levels of exploits/glitches allowed, pretty much any category betweens Intended and Anything Goes, depends on the game.) "Anything Goes" (Speaks for itself)

[@tannerknight6230]

this video cleared up a wholeeeeee lot thank you so much

[@harmhoeks5996]

Good well-sourced video!

[@mackchop3274]

Nice video! You explained everything well. What makes a topic like this so hard is I know for a fact that there are a lot of things I've done in video games that weren't indended, even though I was playing casually. What about finding loops on bosses where they can't hit you? Is that cheating or good strategy? Or anything like that? It's definitely not a split down the middle type of topic.

[@metallsnubben]

Heck, this is even an issue with physical sports. Like how they allowed special ”shark skin” suits that lessened friction in swimming competitions, but then removed them because they were ”against the spirit”. It’s tough to make simple consistent rules, that draw a clear line without leaving grey areas (or force swimmers to be nude lol)

[@summon1381]

"Don't worry about it..."

[@cow511]

the youtube algorithm has blessed this video, welcome all new people

[@user-vm2wi8no1s]

That pannenkoek reference killed me dude. Good shit.

[@iceypino1086]

* hums file select screen sm64 * * it plays * *HMMMMMMMMMM*

[@seba83888]

5:57 dat reference

[@Thunder-Sky]

ZOoTR has developed a ruleset that's been dubbed "accessible" and I really think that title is the most appropriate for what "glitchless" was intended to be, and then it allows stuff that is an exploit but is fairly easy to pull off (such as power crouch stabbing)

[@nolankanski9116]

That watch for rolling rocks joke at 6:00 really got me good.

[@PokeMaster22222]

2:26 Okay, so you've covered True/True, False/False and True/False. What about False/True?

[@christian5256]

Is that even possible? How could an unintended mechanic lead to an intended result?

[@PokeMaster22222]

@@christian5256 I don't know for certain, but how about the player wanting to move abnormally quickly in a game, then stumbling upon an exploit (say, backwards long-jump or bunnyhopping or similar) that allows them to do so. That exploit was unintended by the developers (and may even be patched out in later revisions - re: Super Mario 64 Shindou), but led to an intended result by the player. Does that count?

[@neros_soren]

and now for the mindblow: if you disagree with rulings, run a game you like to run it, because if you really want to run under certain rules, because you enjoy it, no one will keep you from doing so. Not everything speedrunning related has to be on leaderboards and agreed upon by the community. It's a hobby, and one should enjoy it.

[@Lionlicious]

This was very educational, thank you.