Gloomhaven - Item Prosperity 1 Tier List

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Come and watch me play Magic The Gathering: Arena!! The BEST decks to beat the meta!! kzbin.info/door/XFLYWi1sEIbgSb-kYvssJg

[@adriankoschier81]

Hey man, love your videos! :) I hope this game still gets attention. I wanted to add something for the iron helmet: We had a party including the void warden, which frequently put a x2 bless into the monsters deck to grant a heal or attack. This was good in 2 ways: Our tanks had iron helmets, preventing them from getting the not so infrequent crits (we had around 3-8 crits prevented per scenario, including boss hits for around 6-10 x2 damage) and when the monsters were forced to attack each other, the x2 was great too ;) So for that strategy, the iron helmet was pretty necessary as we would have died otherwise

[@nevets4433]

Iron helm…a sleeper in late game. Better helmets have high cost, but it is “rentable” for 5 gold if you are max reputation and you can sell it back at cost. It makes a great placeholder late game until you have the gold you need to buy one of the later headshot items.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Agreed. Still think it’s c tier though. You?

[@nevets4433]

@@neuralnetgames6540 agree

[@yuvalgordonzin]

You super underestimated the iron helmet. If you are playing a sun, as a tank, using this helmet, you will never take a strong hit. Once every 13 atks is alot, it means you are likely to get atleast one hit per scenario, and a hit like that can ruin your scenario..

[@kookingpot]

I would rank the iron helm higher, I feel its really useful for a tank character, or one that gets shield a lot. My sun rocks it, and I love that it isn't limited once per scenario. It definitely gets used at least once per scenario. Not an a tier item, but I don't think its at the bottom of the list. I would put the invisibility cloak lower in the list. I would rather have some armor that can get triggered 6 or 8 times per scenario, or even disadvantage 6times per scenario, rather than go invisible once. Sure, a couple characters can get some good use out of it, but I feel the opportunity cost is too high, and the benefit is too short. I would also rank the boots of striding higher, as thats something I wish I had on every single one of my characters. I wish there were 6 boots of striding. So incredibly useful.

[@PMMagro]

Good stuff! When one item has been nrefed and even more nerfed again by home rule sit might be... rather powerful out of box :)

[@Abe7171]

I have nothing against the iron helmet because it’s very cheap. I had 12 gold in gloomhaven with the brute in a party of four. I chose to bring along the helmet and it saved the scenario twice.

[@izus4811]

Interesting that you rate Iron Helmet so low, I always considered it kinda mandatory for whoever is tanking. But if it really is 1 in 13 hits I probably am over-valueing it. My logic is that it ensures the effectiveness of Shielding up when expecting incoming damage, no crit from an elite will slip through and do devastating amounts of damage. Also what other options are available for a tank? Talisman yea, but expensive. Goggles is ofc great on Lightning Bolts but having them on Brute or Sun instead of your pure damage dealers i don't see happening. The cheap cost with it always being active is it's true strength imo, combined with a bit of reputation and it's almost free. I like to get Iron Helm+Stam Pot on Summoner and no other gear so i can focus on enhancing those summons.

[@viesturskokarevics2427]

Poison dagger is not that bad. Scoundrel of Mindthief going first, poisoning, then Crag and Brute attacking already poisoned target.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Could be C tier it’s close

[@nicholaschan4481]

Iron helm may be C tier in general, but I think on a tank character it's basically mandatory. With 2 shields, a 3 damage attack is doing 1, and a 4 damage attack is doing 2. If this crits, the 3 is now doing 4, and the 4 is doing 6. So the helm isn't blocking double damage, it's blocking potentially triple or quadruple damage.

[@Mirsset]

Iron Helmet is not that bad if you play as pure tanking character and get into the front lines, so almost all attacks from monsters are on you. It's very cheap and on higher levels can reduce significant amount of damage. There are not that many good options for this slot if you play for example as Sun with pure tanking build.

[@morganandersson924]

Very true, and its true value comes into effect when a times two would make you loose a card..

[@davidb8936]

Good Against monsters that have advantage

[@jdmedinburgh110]

Yeah, I found it useful when I was tanking as Sun with a lot of shielding because I was taking almost all the hits for the party and could shield myself from most damage so long as a x2 wasn't pulled - the iron helmet removed that problem. I found it usually got triggered twice per scenario - often saving me from 3-5 damage getting past my shielding on each of those times. The only other time I found the iron helmet really useful to have was in Jaws of the Lion while playing Demolitionist as a tank alongside a Voidwarden who could repeatedly heal me significantly so long as she put a bless card in the monster deck each time.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Copy and pasting this from another comment I answered just so I can clearly explain. Also i don't really believe in tanking overall, except basically for Sun. It's almost always better to play for damage. If average enemy attack is 4, and a crit is pulled 1/13 of the time then you have to be attacked 13 times on average to have the Iron Helmet take effect, and when it takes effect 4 damage is prevented. Maybe you play differently but I would guess that you take way less than 13 hits AVERAGE per scenario, even with the tankiest melee classes, so the Iron Helmet would prevent even less than 4 damage per scenario, in this example. Compare to something like Hide Armor, which with even 1 long rest can prevent 4 damage per scenario from only 4 attacks, compared to 13 attacks for the Iron Helmet.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

To trigger 2 times average per scenario you would have to take 26 hits per scenario... Maybe I am playing differently but I would bet I take less than 6 hits average per character per scenario. Do you really think you take 26 attacks on one character average every single scenario?

[@calebdesjardins616]

I agree with you on iron helmet, it doesn’t happen often but when it does happen it’s nice. I used it as a place holder until I got a helmet unlocked that I wanted, basically rented it for 5 coins for a couple of early scenarios and it happened maybe twice where it came in handy

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Yeah for a rentable item it's fine I just think that statistically it is pretty poor in the long run!

[@calebdesjardins616]

@@neuralnetgames6540 agreed!

[@arthurruellan4874]

Hi ! I just bought the game a few days ago and supposed to receive it today. In the meantime i couldn’t resist and watched tones of videos about it to make sure i do not start with big dumb choices, and i have to say i really like yours, no-spoilers-oriented, easy to understand for non pro-gloomhaven players (and non English native speakers). When you start a campaign, you have 30 gold, what are the best items you recommend ? My girlfriend and I will probably go for one melee class and one non melee so i was thinking hide armor+boots of striding for the first one and cloak of invisibility+stamina potion for the second. Also the bow seems terrible for a noob like me since you lose it after using it (and costs 30g) ! Could you explain why it’s so powerful? Keep up great work :)

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Thanks for the kind words! Depends on what classes you play but you can't go wrong with eagle eye goggles and stamina potion. bow is great for the spellweaver as she has AOE attacks that are not high damage(usually 3-4) but hit lots of targets so great for shield 2+ enemies where it can easily be worth 6-8 damage more by ignoring the shields.

[@kobarsos82]

Since the S tier minor stamina potion has been nerfed to just 1 card I wonder where you would rate it now !!

[@wenometchainthasumma]

He said a

[@emersonfry1927]

War hammer makes sense in A Tier, but I've never actually used it because it costs so much. In my experience, once you have enough to buy it, then you already have access to better items

[@neuralnetgames6540]

I used quite a few times. Don't forget that as you level up you start new classes with more gold, so by the time you get to prosperity 2/3 you should be able to buy Warhammer easily right away as you start

[@royality2597]

On the pc game with stamina potion you get only 1 card back :/

[@jdmedinburgh110]

Totally agree that 2 cards back version of Minor Stamina Potion is S tier. Although it feels great to use it to replay favourite combos, it can make things a bit too easy so I recognise it was right that it got nerfed in JotL.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

For sure. 2 cards is totally unbalanced. nerf is good. You ever check out the endurance potions version?

[@jdmedinburgh110]

@@neuralnetgames6540 I haven't tried the endurance potions version. One of my party members was gutted enough about the JotL version and would probably never forgive me if I tried to get us to voluntarily switch to the endurance potion version! :-)

[@MsKeylas]

6:22 I completely agree and for myself I renamed it to a trap helmet. Also with Soothsayer/anyone else curse strategy it becomes even worse since if enemy draws added curse deck is not reshuffled .. only if they draw their actual curse. Thus switching that crit to a plus 0 saves enemy from situation where monster rolls with dis and draws added curse and their crit causing monster to lose chance to crit until they draw their own decks curse. it is a total waste of both a slot and 10 gold.

[@d.t.5670]

Re: Iron Helmet. The relevant variable isn't how often crits are pulled: it's what percentage of your damage you take from crits. For tanks, that's a significantly higher number. Iron Helmet is indeed pretty bad for a Spellweaver; it is phenomenal for a Sunkeeper. On those class-sensitive grounds I could see an argument for B tier (as you and others have defined it), but no lower.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Actually how often crits are pulled is completely relevant. If average enemy attack is 4, and a crit is pulled 1/13 of the time then you have to be attacked 13 times on average to have the Iron Helmet take effect, and when it takes effect 4 damage is prevented. Maybe you play differently but I would guess that you take way less than 13 hits AVERAGE per scenario, even with the tankiest melee classes, so the Iron Helmet would prevent even less than 4 damage per scenario, in this example. Compare to something like Hide Armor, which with even 1 long rest can prevent 4 damage per scenario from only 4 attacks, compared to 13 attacks for the Iron Helmet.

[@scoobiusmaximus9508]

The reason people think Iron Helmet is good is because it procs way more than 1/52 attacks. That would be the probability if everyone in a 4 person party were equally likely to be hit. In my experience you will have tankier characters taking more hits so the probability of it working goes up significantly. Still not as good as Eagle Eyes generally, but if you have a tank it isn't bad.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

I didn't say it procs 1/52. I said you have to take 52 damage from 13 attacks at 4 damage each. On average a crit is pulled 1/13th of the time. See the answer I provided to D.T. in the comment section!

[@Cpt_nice]

I agree with the comments Boots of Striding are A tier, easily imo. I agree with everything else tho. Maybe Iron Helmet is also a D tier. Cloak is definitely a high A tier, only because I think it's not AS good for the really tanky classes. For the Spellweaver for example it is easily S tier.

[@tcr7]

Iron Helmet is useful on squishy characters, imo. If I were playing the Sun class? Nope - no Iron Helmet, despite him taking a lot more hits. Something with low hp? I'll grab it sometimes because one crit against you can end the scenario for you.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

I mean you can usually just lose a card to mitigate all damage so losing a scenario because of one crit is super rare...

[@HansJoachimMaier]

I actually like the poison dagger. We play with 2 players and the additional damage had helped us a lot.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Glad you found it fun! Most items are viable and this ranking is just my opinion!

[@HansJoachimMaier]

@@neuralnetgames6540 Wait, you don’t want to start a flame war? Darn! ;) Nah, which item is good and which is not depends on so many things. Our opinion will probably change while we climb up the xp ladder.

[@bepohal]

iron helmet is a B tier. what you miss is that it actually isn't necessary to take all you HP to get you in trouble. if you are late in the scenario or can't allow to burn certain cards, it will drag you down to maybe 1-2 HP and suddenly EVERY attack costs you a burn, especially if more than one enemy is attacking and you suffered the x2 from the first one. there you have the solution you were missing. definetely not an A tier tho. also: boots and cloak are S tier in the first few scenarions and then go back to A.

[@MOSPHIRE]

When facing shamans that bless iron helmet may be useful? I still wouldn't use it though. It's a nice tier list! But it's very difficult to rank the items in a vacuum, because it's so character dependent. I like how you're weighing in how many classes benefit from an item. I mean boots of striding would be tier A for the Brute, while Eagle eye goggles would be tier b for the scoundrel (when she has all her perks and with gloomhaven advantage rules maybe tier C even), but for many classes it's very good.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Yep it can be handy in certain situations and agreed some things can be better for certain classes. Boots of striding for sure A tier for the Brute!

[@dkdaanio3699]

Boots of string should be A tier imo. I use it on almost all of my characters. And it can change an outcome if a situation so much if you can reach your target on a big attack.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

For some classes I agree, like the Brute, for others they are definitely not A tier, so that's why I put them at B! They are a high B tier though for sure!

[@wielkiro5683]

Hey I have a question about inferno. Does it count as melee damage? like you can combo it with warhammer for stun? or is it range? or is it neither? Also, does it damage the caster?

[@quadparty]

I am currently playing with the iron helmet (4p game) because to retire I need to own two helmets, and I had 7 gold to spend :-)

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Lol best reason for the helmet I’ve heard

[@lanffir-229]

Iron helmet and similar crap works GREAT for all the people who used to trust feelings more than math in a game that based mainly on math and predicting most of the random situations. And of course all of them have amazing 'war stories' about it. Sadly It's just some sort of a survivorship bias.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

Ya maybe some confirmation bias because they believe that tanks need it to survive? I get the feelings on it but mathematically it just appears quite weak to me. It is cheap though so rentable at max rep and it actually does get slightly better at really high difficulties/max level

[@jonathanhowe42]

This is probably a nitpick because I assume there are also lower cards with a crazy re-use ability, but is Inferno the best example of that given that it's a level 9 card and you would presumably be out of Prosperity 1 by then? Or does that not really factor in? I'm not sure at what level the next Stamina potion shows up, so maybe it still works. I still haven't gotten back to the table to get beyond Prosperity 1, so it's hard to compare when I've mostly been playing digital & have moved through all but 3 classes by now.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

I only use it because it's the most, or one of the most, egregious examples and it's a starting class so don't have to worry about giving spoiler examples. However there are numerous examples of this for every class, even though most of them are not as crazy as SW Inferno.

[@jonathanhowe42]

@@neuralnetgames6540 That's fair. I know it can be a challenge to always self edit for spoilers, so kudos for keeping that up

[@neuralnetgames6540]

@@jonathanhowe42 lol yep it can be quite challenging and that's why I sometimes just get into a rut with the same example!

[@danielshanks8297]

Weird, I thought I posted this but don’t see it now (it might need to be approved because it has a link in it??) Anyway, I found a site with odds for the crit and it’s 1 in 14 (~7.143%). I can link it if you like.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

True that links usually get held for review, but I don't see any comments from you that need reviewing! Post it again and I'll take a look

[@randomstrategy7679]

@@neuralnetgames6540 Here's the maths: Suppose you have n cards in your deck, of which one is a *2 and one is a 0 that cause you to reshuffle but others are normal. Let f(k) be the probability that the first k cards do not contain the 0 or *2. If we take our deck of n-2 cards (everything except the 0 and *2), then add the 0 and *2 at random, there are n-1 locations for the 0 and n locations for the *2. So the probability that the first k cards do not contain the 0 is (n-1-k)/(n-1) and the probability is also does not contain the *2 is (n-k)/n. Therefore f(k) = (n-1-k)(n-k)/(n-1)/(n) From this, we get the probability that we shuffle at draw k to be f(k-1)-f(k) = (n+1-k)(n-k)/(n-1)/(n) - (n-1-k)(n-k)/(n-1)/(n) = 2*(n-k)/(n-1)/n The expected number of cards we draw per shuffle is therefore: sum_{k=1:n-1} k * 2*(n-k)/(n-1)/n = 2* (n-1)(n)(n+1)/6 /(n-1)/n = (n+1)/3 So the overall probability you draw a reshuffle card is 3/(n+1), Since both the 0 and *2 have equal probability of being that shuffle-card, the probability you draw a 0 is 3/(n+1)/2 and the probability you draw a *2 is also 3/(n+1)/2 If n=20 (which is the normal situation if nothing has gone and messed with the deck), then you get 3/21/2 = 1/14

[@charleshammel8541]

Iron helmet. Needs at least 1 shield. I'd pay 20 for that. If you have nothing else.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

If it had 1 persistent shield it would probably be op but it should just be a tap. or it should negate all damage from crits entirely and cost more

[@jamesknowles9236]

Any 1-shot item that costs 30+ gold every single time you want to use it is just garbage regardless of its effect, especially at prosperity level 1 when you likely can't afford to rebuy it, or you never have any gold 'cuz you can only rebuy it and nothing else.

[@neuralnetgames6540]

what do you mean by rebuy it? You only have to buy an item once and you get to use it every scenario...