The Naughty Step: Is Discipline Damaging? | Good Morning Britain

Author Sarah Ockwell-Smith who works with parents as a coach and childcare expert has spoken about how discipline is damaging. The mother of four says: ' This mistreatment of children - the most vulnerable members of society - is neither funny nor just. It is childism. Childism is no different to any other harmful discrimination - racism or sexism, for example. We sit children on naughty steps, stick them in 'isolation booths' at school, and take away their favourite things to 'teach them respect'. But these punishments don't work; all they succeed in doing is traumatising the child and often producing a damaged adult.' Instead, Sarah Ockwell Smith advocates ‘gentle parenting’. But is discipline necessary or could it psychologically harm kids?
Broadcast on 15/09/23
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[@louisemcginn5217]

Peoples response to this just proves the argument of "childism"... I dont know how you can listen to Sarah Ockwell-Smith and come to some of the conclusions that people are! She is not arguing for no discipline... in fact she is arguing discipline is paramount but coming from a place of calmness, curiosity, kindness and respect towards children. If that makes you feel uncomfortable then that indicates some deeper work you need to do to come to terms with your own childhood and challenge the childism that is ingrained in you! Go Sarah, spread this message far and wide. Im so grateful to you for your work whilst I am raising my own children ❤

[@Mr.Goodkat]

Thank you for commenting this!

[@gemmastockdale986]

100 percent agree with this 👌 well said

[@ralphmagg2]

My daughter in law had this attitude. The kids now have major problems because they have never learnt discipline

[@SarahOckwellSmith]

Thank you for speaking with me about gentle parenting, respectful discipline, and my new book ‘Because I Said So! Why Society is childist and how breaking the cycle of discrimination towards children can change the world’ ❤

[@JustAnotherPerson4U]

Oh was it you on the programme? You make an interesting point about the emotional maturity of a toddler. How can we expect them to understand why they're being punished if they're supposedly not mature enough to be reasoned with? I suspect it's an issue that people have with new ideas on how to discipline children without using corporal punishment (of which many still sadly stand by it). Maybe some parents feel judged and get defensive if experts come out and say 'perhaps these older methods were not the best ones that could've been used' And so many people forget that the word discipline literally comes from the latin word that means TO TEACH. And teaching doesn't equal punishment. Punishment is all about control in society. It doesn't teach the reasons why something shouldn't be done. It makes someone fearful of the consequences for doing it without really understanding why something is wrong.

[@gemmastockdale986]

Cognitive dissonance! A new phrase I learned today from Sarah's book 'Beacuse I said so' Getting everyone a copy for Xmas 😆

[@rachaeloliver8131]

So in summary: modelling reasonable behaviour, not teaching them that being quiet and swallowing feelings equals good behaviour and not pushing our children to fear us...I don't really know how you can argue against that. I think Sarah came off really well here - it's like she said, the teachers we loved the most had clear boundaries, didn't scare us and didn't make us feel like "we were only children" - they made us feel valued.

[@EllySoccerstar]

I had a couple great teachers but one when I got to high school and my one problem in 3rd grade was when mis Noreen pushed me but for not saying excuse me to go to the bathroom and in high school MIs b didn’t make my feel excited to come to her classroom because she would always intimidate me and yell at me

[@aa-fw2pw]

Discipline is necessary for a child to learn boundaries. Children must learn right from wrong.

[@SarahOckwellSmith]

Indeed, and that’s best done calmly and respectfully, not through fear, threats and punishments.

[@aa-fw2pw]

@@SarahOckwellSmith I'm a mother of a 2 year old and a 15 month old and I absolutely agree with you

[@teoleno4019]

@SarahOckwellSmith This is why most of you can not control your brats in public. No gentle parenting has ever worked.

[@annamichelleable]

@@teoleno4019where are the statistics and studies on that please? I’d LOVE to know!

[@alice1374]

@@teoleno4019 gentle parenting works just fine.

[@JustAnotherPerson4U]

That's actually a really good point the lady on the left makes. If a toddler does not have the emotional and intellectual capacity to be reasoned with. Why on earth would a punishment make them reflect on what they did wrong? At best, they're going to be wondering what they did wrong and when they're told why they probably don't understand it because in their mind they weren't intending that. And just a note for everyone including the scotslady. That the latin root for discipline means 'instruction and training'. In other words, TEACHING. And teaching is not the same as punishment. Punishment is there for control. It has never been there to TEACH. And we seem to have confused the two. And any psychologist would tell you that punishment doesn't really teach you the lesson of the reason why you shouldn't do something. If it teaches you anything, it teaches you through the emotion of fear of NOT to do something in fear of the consequence. So you're not getting your child's mind to engage in the thought process of WHY something is bad to do. You're trying to bypass that and use the emotions which as people are sure to protest against, is making it a form of control. Is it traumatising for every child using discipline like the naughty step? Probably not. But, it may not be as effective in actively engaging the child's brain in learning right from wrong as we might think. Idk, I'm not a psychologist. But maybe that's what they're looking at rn. And people who are complaining about kids these days being undisciplined... really think about are you complaining because they weren't like you back in your day? Because they're just walking along and laughing? Or because they're generally and purposefully causing trouble? Just think about it because yes, some are just raised to be little inconsiderate devils. Others are just children who are being children that older generations don't like seeing in public. I have to say... it has given me a bit of thought this.

[@jujutrini8412]

Of course it’s pointless screaming at a kid when they’re having a tantrum. Parents have to be calm when disciplining children. They need discipline. My mum and dad just had to give “the look” at a certain age and we knew we had to stop mucking around! Then at an older age we hated the idea of disappointing them.

[@okamiwolfee5699]

Has the woman in glasses ever worked in an SEN alternative provision? 🤣 in my experience as a teacher at these schools is that it’s the LACK of discipline that does the damage. Discipline doesn’t mean bad, it just means structure & boundaries and consequences that are followed through.

[@xaviertrujillo506]

That’s what the woman in glasses said, she was in favour of discipline just not punishment

[@patriciadouglas4819]

​

[@SarahOckwellSmith]

The woman in the glasses (me) does have experience of working with children with SEN, indeed one of my children has SEN. Discipline is of course necessary, you can do it without threats, shaming, punishment, fear and pain though - my videos detail how if you’d like to learn more.

[@hmq9052]

"They're children for goodness sake". Her children are either in therapy. Or shortly will be.

[@CarolCulbertson]

They need discipline…..

[@saml8510]

@@CarolCulbertson Who said children don't need discipline?

[@teoleno4019]

If UK ever gets attacked, I would love to see all of these kid adults who grew up with therapy and soft parenting defending this country. 🤡

[@hmq9052]

@@teoleno4019 You've got it the wrong way round. The ones in therapy are the ones who had tough parenting.

[@annamichelleable]

@@teoleno4019people are in therapy because of the harsh punishment-based-discipline they were raised on. We’re just here trying to break the generational trauma that has been passed down to us and do it better for our kids. I think that being open to facts, studies, reading and listening to experts on the subject might be more helpful than just your opinions based on your own observations.

[@Mr.Goodkat]

If it is wrong to do it to an adult it's wrong to do it to a child. Period.

[@aprilfox1057]

We have far more important thing to do than disciplining our children. Come on! Our child is not going to remember the sharp swift discipline. The Scots woman is likely a bully. Reasoning with children is needed. Then she back tracks. She is a woman who has to be right , all the time. Oh dear.

[@Tlamatini.234]

Discipline never damages, the lack of it, it really does ..even those guys who never face reality may think they are born in another body

[@hmq9052]

Never had a kid ☝️

[@Tlamatini.234]

@@hmq9052 never studied ¿Why did you, @hmq9052, still believe in spirituality inside a body?

[@Tlamatini.234]

@@hmq9052 Well,my friend... religious guy, keep defending duality in science, at the end you wont be able to prove It Do you know what Im talking about, dont you? If you dont, ask.

[@fenlandwildlifeclips]

These days, most parents spend most of their time on their phone, ignoring their kids. That's what you need to debate: why parents simply care MORE about their phone than their kids.

[@Buddhavibez]

Only yesterday a 13 yr old was arrested for stabbing an adult in London. 13, let that sink in

[@hmq9052]

This curly haired lady is absolutely right.

[@saml8510]

It was quite clear in this interview that 3 people did not understand what authoritative parenting is, it's a shame really as it's all based on 50 years of research. 'Circle of security' parenting Course is often what is taught in children's centres and other settings across the world and is also based on the same research with the same ethos, and it has been proven to be better for children emotional health while also keeping boundaries

[@amylitherland4897]

People really are missing the point that you’re trying to make, Sarah

[@yvonnesimpson4584]

I was smacked as a child along with my siblings and we never felt abused and all grew up with respect for our parents. We got caned at school and respected the teachers. The kids today are spoilt brats who are in control of their parents.

[@hmq9052]

You turned out fine. Apart from the punching down anger.

[@SarahOckwellSmith]

You believe hurting children is acceptable, have you considered that this may mean it *did* do you harm?

[@CarolCulbertson]

You are 200% right, so right!!!!

[@CarolCulbertson]

It’s not hurting children , children need it,, discipline is really needed. My god these days children are mad, cheeky ilbred brats, I will say not all of them but quite a lot of them, horrible little sods, spoiled never happy little sods… god help us and the planet….@@SarahOckwellSmith

[@teoleno4019]

Try telling this to the parents of today. Their kid can kick somebody's seat or scream their lungs out, yet they are never punished by their parents. The reason why we have so many young criminals now, is because of this software parenting bullsh*t.

[@barcelonachair6487]

Life has has consequences for behaviour including punishment. This has to be taught from a young age. Many times kids are hyper and out of control even when the environment is in control.

[@jonriley8342]

The very reason we live in a shit society is because we don’t have enough discipline for children.

[@LolaKatros-mf6ti]

The problem nowadays is kids are not being disciplined properly because people are having kids well before they are really ready. Kids can scream through public places and spaces without being told to stop by the parents. Part of the problem is people are having kids when they just shouldn't. I'm a person who likes my free time, putting that towards what I enjoy doing and to keep this way of life me and my partner agree that we will not be having any kids. We have way more time to relax and we prioritised us in our relationship. Been with them for 11 years which is seemingly rare in my generation. The generation of kids who never grew up. I will openly admit to being part of that, I would much rather spend time gaming than procreate for the continuation of the human race.

[@marthasubba3083]

As far i experience actually children can understand well if you talk with them calmly about their mistakes, it is the parents who need to have control on the situation which is not easy, but as we are more older than them we should have that consideration to overlook the scenarios of conflicts. Discipline does not come over night we adult need to act, interact with the children everyday as much as possible, correct them when they are calm and you are calm, children quickly forgets what we said to them, specially if they are also in angry situation they do not want to listen us. Life style, diet, daily routine, family environment, their daily rest time also effect on children mood and parents mood too. Children also doest not like humiliation, we can give an example to the children if you follow the good path what happens and if you follow the bad path happens. If we become truthful with them with the logic they will be truthful also in future, they will not lie, they will not scare to say what they did even though they done some mistakes.

[@michaeljohndennis2231]

As a traditional Irish Catholic, I am a total supporter of ultra strict military style parental discipline for misbehaving children, especially consistently applied corporal punishment from the ages of 2-16 - not doing so causes much more serious problems later on and we need to go back to traditional forms of parenting and discipline - if a child is old enough to misbehave, that child is old enough to receive corporal punishment for that misbehaviour

[@hmq9052]

Sarcasm detector high

[@SarahOckwellSmith]

Wow, I hope you’re a troll (or you don’t have children).

[@victoriaglennjulian6575]

Parents have better things to be doing than reasoning with a toddler... firstly the job of a parent is to make time and teach, that's half the problem these days Parents don't give children any time or teach them anything, they leave that to ipads or school... secondly, it's not reasoning with them, you can't reason with a toddler, you model how to be kind and calm with others not letting your emotions rule your reactions whilst holding your ground. Honestly Claire. Kids deserve better than just teaching them fighting over a toy is wrong. How about teaching them fighting over a toy is not OK, also how to negotiate with others, communicate using words not emotions and getting what u want out of a situation? Surely that's a better deal for our kids and better for society once they're adults? Oh but Claire too busy and will leave all these skills to be taught by school staff and extended family...lets hope her kids have teachers that do teach this and not just punishment, and that she has extended family that help and dont just replicate her way or worse be apathetic or permissive!!

[@emilyhuckle2909]

Imagine having time to have multiple children but not having the time to teach them to navigate life and emotions 😭

[@quentin-u3e]

Remember sat in my living room listening to a mum tell her 2.5yr old to stay on the naughty step from morning till bed time for three days. I thought that extreme but...

[@kellykreqeli8924]

Lack of discipline is the issue in this country that's why the kids are how they are today be soft on them and as we see now look at the kids today I don't have a criminal record and never dare get into trouble parenting years ago was better back then than it is now and having good manners and morals

[@Samantha-wz1ib]

Personally I think Discipline is needed. but it Also Depends on WHAT TYPE of discipline. as Everyone Has different type of Ways to discipline and some Can be damaging. but i Do also Get Sarah Side of It.

[@saml8510]

The thing is, she didn't say discipline isn't needed, she just said there's no reason to shame, coerce and threaten children into behaving

[@mariewalmsley6143]

I used to get a clip around the ear , never did me any harm

[@SarahOckwellSmith]

But somehow you have convinced yourself it’s ok to hurt children. Is that not evidence of harm?

[@mariewalmsley6143]

Kids are out of control because of lack of discipline there's your evidence.

[@roblister5183]

My Nana used to twist the top of my ear. It's funny because me and my cousin were discussing it not long ago, how she'd get total control of any situation with this method.

[@mariewalmsley6143]

I bet it made you behave though.😂

[@roblister5183]

@@mariewalmsley6143 100% 😊. It was simple and effective. Oh and when it was cold though. 🔥 the Afterburn. Good memories.

[@petrus666love]

What’s wrong with thumb screws ? It’s better than shouting at them !

[@keifer7813]

Imagine shouting and yelling at a mentally disabled person or a senile person to make them understand something. You'd be a pariah in society. Yet we're so quick to do it to the most vulnerable members of society - children. Funny ain't it

[@kumarayush4967]

west has gone nuts... You want to see discipline, then look at an Indian or a Chinese mother how she treats her children. I mean is this really a topic of discussion? I don't want to live long enough to see indiscipline child grow up to join an army.

[@maryamaltamish6443]

Sarah came off really well in this discussion. She isn’t saying "dont discipline" she's calling for conscious discipline where the parent takes responsibility for their own emotions but also recognises the needs of the child. This means it's a collaborative approach. The parent teaches the child how to do better. The naughty step doesn't teach the child anything.

[@amingoflex1]

so when you child breaks you t.v u sit and discuss the value of the t.v and the price difference from when it was purchased and now based on inflation ?

[@emzraven666]

People are too scared to discipline their children these days, they have done for about 15 20 years now for fear of being accused of child abuse. Lack of discipline has created the problems with today's youth, they are the most disrespectful in history, more crime, drug use etc because they aren't disciplined properly. Have no respect for anyone. An elderly lady fell over the other day and couldnt get herself up, I saw it happen but wasn't near her at the time, group teen girls walking behind her when it happened, they started laughing and just stepped over and round her. Not even a single thought to help. Luckily there was other people closer to her who assisted her before I got there. I wouldn't have done when I was their age.

[@jermainetenkorang7]

Learn more

[@astridnaomi7314]

It's unfortunate, though not surprising, that the obviously clueless interns in charge of the GMB KZbin have chosen descriptions for the video that completely miss the point made by 'the curly-haired lady'. Gentle parenting has never been about losing all discipline and boundaries, it's about making such things purposeful, and far more effective when they are necessary. Lazy clickbait labels like the ones seen here are reducing the topic to pointlessness.

[@carldavies6132]

Best punishment for teens .is take there phones. Social media of them .job done😮

[@J.P_INC.]

Oh and the bible itself said spare the rod,spoil the child

[@SarahOckwellSmith]

Ephesians 6:4 also reminds us of the ultimate purposes for discipline: “Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.” Correction of our child’s behavior should always be rooted in connection.

[@J.P_INC.]

@@SarahOckwellSmith yes which is why you don't overdo the discipline. Difference between that and abuse. You teach them to follow God's laws not your own but to respect and obey you for this is pleasing to God. Parents today don't teach or properly train their children this way so they become worse as adults

[@haza123b4]

*It also says to follow the laws of the land.*

[@J.P_INC.]

@@haza123b4 and it says that we should follow the law of the land unless it goes against god's laws. Gods law is to discipline your child in righteous so doing what the government tells you to and not discipline your child,you are going against God himself. Gods law trumps all law

[@LIONHEARTED20]

Some parents need discipline . To many parents enabling their kids as when your wrong and rude you need a good cut backside !!! Simple !! Bring back the ruler and cane !!!

[@amingoflex1]

this is ridiculous , how can someone reason with a child who can barely spell his name. it don't understand what they are doing . they need to be guided not have conversation with

[@Carol-e3d5o]

Smack on back of legs ,does no harm great gran, always gave respect

[@teoleno4019]

You spank with a belt, just like our grandmothers did. The reason why we have kids in public that everyone can not stand, is because they are being raised without spanking.

[@EllySoccerstar]

They just getting a reward for good behavior they’ll learn if I fight for my toy I had first I have to disagree with big or little bro then we both get punished same thing with teenagers and tween if mum or papa see or hears me doing something I’m not supposed to do I’ll get grounded and then I’ll won’t be able to get my iPad and hang out with my buddies they only seeing when I’m not causing trouble I am allowed to do regular shit like I usually do if I’m mad or sad or I want see my buddies and mum and papa say no and if I sneak out because I very much wanted to c them I’ll have 0 life until two months or a week or two are up

[@victoriaglennjulian6575]

Punishment just teaches kids how to hide stuff more to get away with it. And that's not healthy or helpful

[@jonriley8342]

Some kids are so fucking badly behaved they need to be strongly disciplined, my mum was an “ old school teacher” and she blamed todays horrible society on the demise of discipline in the schools that started in the 60’s. Common sense really.

[@hmq9052]

The fact she sees society as "horrible" suggests she is angry and damaged

[@victoriaglennjulian6575]

What is strong discipline? Discipline comes from disciple which means follower and learner. If you mean punishment, have a look into how their parents raised those kids. They were probably left to their own devices/ kicked out because parent couldn't be bothered to spend time or teach them anything, with a bit of irrational corporal punishment thrown in. Or you have permissive parents (that was adult backlash against the harsh parenting they recieved) that let their kids do whatever they want. Either way, the blame doesn't sit with the kids and punishing them is not going to make either type of kid learn how to behave. Consequences- yes, but also modelling better ways to manage emotions, communicate, what is OK and not OK and why. But some kids will refuse to change because they love their parents (naturally), wont want to feel like they are betraying them by moving away from what their parents taught them was an acceptable way of parenting, and are not at the point to accept their parents way was not the best. So regardless of punishment or not they won't change if they don't want to or are not ready to... so what's the point in punishing? Research shows punishment for adult or child does. Not. Work. In changing behaviours.

[@jonriley8342]

@@victoriaglennjulian6575 my mum was a teacher she and I know what common sense is. Enough said.

[@ckjhh]

This lack of parenting; some kids won’t listen to reason or it takes too long and hence punishment is a quick way for a kid to learn their action they just performed was wrong. Without this it leads to a teenager who is both stronger than their mother if they’re a boy who also doesn’t listen and hence ure fucked as a parent duh