What Is The Future Of MTB Suspension? | GMBN Tech Show 336

[@gmbntech]

Do you want to see more electronic tech on your MTB? Share your thoughts down below!

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

No until they recharge themselves 👎

[@OwenBikeNerd]

@@LaurentiusTriarius - strong no there - from my experience of the AXS batteries do last for an age - and Lael Wilcox has used them for monster mileages too - but would you be happy with the trade off of batteries to charge for the best in suspension!

[@FloppyWaffle]

I can't believe people have an issue charging batteries, we charge everything these days. Phones, headset, wireless keyboard and mice, laptops, tablets. CARS!!!! E-Bikes, honestly I think the biggest hurdle is the cost and if a person could afford to have Flight Attendant, they could pay someone to keep it charged.

[@Ivypoison23]

@@FloppyWaffleI forget to charge nearly all these things daily and therefore I have wired stuff for most everything I can

[@saddleweary2777]

I wish they would put hour data in them for service intervals ( suspension )

[@shawnpritchard366]

I'm sooooo happy, my one, and only mtb is a rigid single speed. I do like technology. It's limited to hydraulic disc brakes and a dropper post. My future is mostly from the past.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

I've been a single speeder in the past - and I'm looking to build another soon too - as the purity of a single speed on perfect section of singletrack is unbeatable - fitness willing of course! Cheers Owen

[@jackiegammon2065]

As a small shop owner, I have to believe that "easier" setup with electronic suspension, well I have to believe that we are missing something there. It seems to me that the mechanics and the folks that either take care of their own bikes, or for shops doing the work... we're adding a ton of work and getting folks trained in this. That means that there needs to be more "service centers" from the manufacturing side of things, and more parts available. Are we getting to the point where a "bicycle" is going to become fully electronic? I LOVE advanced and improvements, but certainly am not ever interested in this. On another page, as a cyclist, I don't want any of that either. I often times ride in areas that are quite remote, and if I see a convenience store and a couple of gas pumps, well I'm happy. But, that would also leave me with with a sour taste if indeed I had an issue out there.... And as you've mentioned already, I do NOT want to think about "charging" everything to simply go for a ride. Again, mulit day ride in the woods, I would need to carry some sort of charger to take care of all that.... I LOVE advancements and improvements, but for me personally and professionally, this is not what I am looking for. LOVE your video and the contrasts though!!

[@ChefIan73]

The Flight Attendant setup last last around a year when fully charged. You’re not having to charge them every ride.

[@jackiegammon2065]

@@ChefIan73 Thanks for the info! For me personally it's still one more thing to think about. lol!

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Thanks for your insights - its always awesome hearing other riders thoughts on the potential futures of mountain biking that lay just around the corner! Cheers Owen

[@OwenBikeNerd]

@@ChefIan73 - Related I've been lucky enough to be running GX AXS on one bike - and I've been riding a fair bit and I too was worried that I'd need to be charging the battery all the time - but just not been the case - I've been impressed - but its definitely something that need thoughts before heading out on huge day out - or a bikepacking loop!

[@tedshred6581]

Valid concern!! switched my rear derailluer to SRAM AXS. Has been great and very reliable, great improvement overall. But ...drove 2 hrs from Seattle in April to bike in Sage hills outside Wenatchee. Battery showed low, swapped for a spare I carry along now. Somehow my derailleuer attempted to update firmware on a poor cell connection, got stuck in an update loop, lost pairing to the shifter and would not pair again. After 45 minutes of trying to get it paired again@ trailhead, drove into town where they have an excellent MTB shop- Arlberg Sports. Took the bike in after another 30-45 minutes their mechanic managed to get my derailleur to pair with a shifter in the shop. ONLY then would it pair again w/ the shifter on my bike. If I'd gone to ride anywhere more remote I'd have been out of luck. Definitely something to consider when switching over to electronic or wireless tech. I don't even open the SAM app and connect it to my AXS unless I'm at home after that incident. Battery charge lasts me for many rides as mostly a weekend warrior, but beware pairing issues. I'm not the only person who's had an issue where their equipment flat out just didn't work b/c of a software or pairing issue.

[@elrictdb]

Well bugger, now I need a TORQ ROCKET mini EX as well as a knippex adjustable wrench....grrr.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Sorry but not sorry! Cheers Owen

[@Timtheranger]

Prada? Nobody wants to look like a prat with too much money and no taste

[@OwenBikeNerd]

So you're not going to join the queue for the jacket? Cheers Owen

[@rgd1977]

@@OwenBikeNerdThree and a half grand to look like a bin man? I mean it is tempting 🤔

[@Timtheranger]

@@OwenBikeNerd it's like queueing for a exquisitely garnished dog dirt sandwich

[@hendrikdrossel9917]

These are just scam prices its unreal. Nobody wants to look like that.

[@garethhughes5745]

Problem with current suspension is its reliable and doesn't cost enough to justify the ridiculous prices of the bikes.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

I agree - modern suspension is great - but would you take amazing suspension for a prices? Or do you think the newer forks from rockshox like the Psylo or the marzocchi Z2 that do offer amazing value for money are good enough? Cheers Owen

[@feedbackzaloop]

Modern suspension being reliable. LOL And the worst thing about it, it costs pennies to single dollars to actually make them bombproof. But extra weight and slightly lesser performance wouldn't sell.

[@garethhughes5745]

@@feedbackzaloop Only Suspension failure i've had in 30 years of MTB was on my Proflex 955 where the bolt that goes through the elastomers snapped. But that was my fault as I had upgraded it to have an oil rebound damper which lengthened the stack height but didnt buy the longer bolt i needed to go through the stack. I got an old Giant Trance 2006 currently as one of my bikes and thats doing great. never even needed a service so far. Electronic suspension? no thanks, Its been around for many years, I think my local shop mechanic had a Lapierre or something like that with that kind of thing, about 10 years ago.

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@garethhughes5745 now get a current lyrik and try to last it at least a year. Elastomer era was before suspension, 2000s was peak reliability if not for Manitou shenanigans. But those days are past gone.

[@garethhughes5745]

@@feedbackzaloop Well last bike i bought was the Intense Tracer 275 (2015) so im guessing i was maybe wrong to say current. lol. sounds like things have gone downhill since. Thanks :)

[@francoinvisser4058]

If you take what you can from MX bikes, the future is bigger diameter shims in both forks and rear shocks. It lends itself to more sensitive setup, so all around better working forks and shocks.

[@rider65]

Bingo

[@andreasbrandstetter9221]

Ohhh yeah, battery in the shock, fork, shifter, seatpost.... Aaaahm not for me. One battery is enough 😂

[@feedbackzaloop]

Not that hard to make sensors and actuators battery-free or self charging with power harversting. It's not the deal breaker. Unlike needing these systems at all.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

The balance of better or maybe even the best suspension Vs batteries to keep charged

[@garethhughes5745]

No batteries here, im eco friendly :)

[@topchoice1621]

I have enough headache with charging my phone 📱 imagine my bike

[@smithandshortdogs]

The prada jacket and pants are really similar to what the US is heading towards as prison attire (re: Orange is the New Black)

[@AnnaOnTheBike]

😅

[@tim__sadler]

#quiz - Paul Turner founded RockShox and then Maverick Bikes (and in doing so promptly help build a lot of other companies indirectly)

[@VerthNeel]

I don't like batteries.

[@hansschnier4955]

15:40 inspired by german Anzeigenhauptmeister

[@mrbmw42]

Owen is right that it's both too good *and* too expensive in the car/motorcycle cases. It's banned in every series that I'm aware of for those reasons. I have to say I disagree with Anna that in the racing context it's about not having to worry about setup. There you still want a "correct" base setup (for whatever that means for the type of racing, rider, conditions, etc.) as you would with non-electronic suspensions. All damping systems have limits on range of adjustment. What the electronics afford then is the opportunity for more tightly-optimized damping in particular sections of a course. You always hear about a rider having a particular setup that's better in some sections, because there's more time to gain/lose in those, but be sub-optimal in others as a result. The dream of the electronics, however well they're executed (or not), is that rapid on-the-fly adjustments can be made such that there's much less compromise overall (again, noting the practical limitations of both the physical damping systems and the electronics themselves). I definitely *do*, however, think that ease of setup (or no setup) can and should be a goal for the average trail rider who both doesn't really know and probably doesn't care much for those details. Yes, I understand that the average GMBN Tech viewer probably does know and care. But let us not commit affinity bias by assuming that most/all MTB riders do.

[@Velo1010]

I remember back in the early 2000’s I saw a Cannondale with an ELO (Electronic Lock Out) on their Lefty fork. I thought it was the coolest thing. The one you mentioned in this video.

[@Iinoi33]

We humans love to over complicate everything. All this tech is kind of silly. One of the reasons why I love biking so much is because of its simplicity. I like how the machine relies on my input and nothing else to operate, no motors, no electronics. Ok top tier racers and their teams want to experiment with this tech that’s one thing but I think it’s just a huuuuge waste of money for everyday riders. It’s just the new shiny thing that no one really needs.

[@darrenmooney8511]

Smart suspension with variable settings linked to gps tracking will be a thing of future dh and xc racing.. pre programmed to change depending on location on track..

[@semadragun]

Interesting to hear about electronics making their way to MTB's, sign of the times i suppose. I personally wouldn't use it but other people might so end of the day each to their own. : )

[@OwenBikeNerd]

I wasn't super keen on the electronic shifting either - but now I've been lucky enough to try it - I've been impressed by its performance, functionality and battery life - but the pricing well - yep that is a different question! Great to hear riders insights on the topic! Cheers Owen

[@semadragun]

@@OwenBikeNerd 🙏

[@Alan-75]

I think Electronic shifting,posts, and flight attendant etc really aren't needed, yes all these things are interesting but i think its just another way to bleed bikers dry with stuff thats not really needed. Bikes and suspension are already way to Expensive as it is.

[@DaBinChe]

electronic suspension banned in motor sports cause too much advantage for teams that can afford it

[@tl924]

The Push Industries fork is the future, electronics will be standard after everyone follows Push.

[@tomrodgers6629]

Too many batteries. Did I recharge my bike today? No thanks.

[@matt_acton-varian]

I want to add the caveat in comparing suspension of mountain bikes with motocross, rider weight is a major factor. Depending on bike and rider, the rider can make up between 60 and 80% of total system mass. Different weight riders have a significant impact on how a set suspension setup feels. On MX bikes the rider is around 30 to 40 percent and a 10kg rider weight discrepancy won't make a significant change to suspension feel. Also the potential parameters and complexity of moto suspension mean that the electronic components would need to match that complexity, thus being much more expensive. If, like SRAM AXS, electronically controlled suspension is here to stay, it may start appearing in the MX world.

[@KlintonSilvey]

You also aren't trying to eek power efficiency in moto through the suspension. That's the main thing

[@GrahamFootBicycleLover]

Great topic guys, The fact there's no wiring and it can be fitted to lots of brands this will be the future for ebikes for sure. Same goes for racing. it seems an obvious way to go, but for the majority of everyday mtb riders I'm going to say, most have had enough of batteries. As you say, most don't know, or can't be bothered to faff with suspension setup, even washing their bike, so having to constantly remember to charge this and that is just a no no. There is definitely a big market for simple. Afterall, we've managed this long just fine. As you know I love fat bikes, I know, I'm a weirdo, but for me it's the ultimate mtb and so simple. But I'll stop there. I can hear you yawning from here. My favorite shock was the FOX Vanilla RC. Worked so well and just rebound, compression and a spring. You two are quite the double act, never had Owen down for this but he seems to be a natural. Your knowledge is crazy too Anna. ok enough. Cheers guys.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Hi Graham, Thank you - great to read your insights too! Cheers Owen

[@canta.apoumai9700]

Hey there @GMBN Tech I have a problem with my hub. I have a sram rise 60 carbon 29 wheelset so in the rear hub whenever I keep the cassette facing downwards the cassette just falls off with the freehub body, so I was wondering whether you guys have any clue to solve this problem

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Howdy, Great question! We'll try and cover this in a forthcoming Ask GMBN Tech Cheers Owen

[@edwards8383]

$2000 Drivetrain on a $200 cannondale 🤯🤯🤯

[@johnssmith4005]

@AskGMBNTech talking about the future , do you guys see a 300mm fork coming anytime soon or are we stuck at 200mm FOREVER ?

[@feedbackzaloop]

Good one! They just started putting super high riser bars, that should drive up the headtube, as the result - more space for longer forks

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Ooo - now thats a super interesting question - we did have 300mm travel forks in the early 2000's - Marzocchi made the Super Monster T's they looked wild - BB heights were much, much higher - but yeah interesting question! Cheers Owen

[@ltrtg13]

I have bought tools I have yet to use. I bought a crown race seating tool to do the headset on my hardtail. However it doesn't fit a tapered steerer. I do have a road bike and hybrid which it will work with. But, the road bike doesn't need new headset. As I don't ride it much. My hybrid doesn't need a new headset as the one fitted is a Chris King headset. So I bought a second crown race tool that does work with a tapered steerer tube. I needed to get a new headset. So I bought a Hope headet with the split crown race. So I haven't used that one either.

[@xjuanx92]

I think the ask that was missed is, does the technology in progressing and advancing speed for racers translate to us the general public. TBH if I sat on a racers bike, I would not be able to distinguish the majority of the improvements. As a rider that enjoys jumping, fitness and having fun without the goal of speed, how much "comfort" in suspension control translate to the general public that aren't part of the 1% racers out there. Wireless to me = less physical cable wire for control which is a no brainer decision, wireless does not equal technology. Curious about that quiz answer. Dave Weagle was the owner and designer of Evil bikes back in the day, Evil bike components was E Thirteen at the time when the started with bash guards. The switch was for marketing "Evil" as a component name was not quite PC, hence E Thirteen. Which I assumed was Evil 13?

[@PhilDiasPJD]

In my opinion, the instant you introduce batteries for mountain biking or cycling in general whether it be shifters or power assistance or suspension make them e-bikes and this just doesn't interest me. It complicates things and takes away from the essence that is riding your bike. An escape from all the modern technology and gadgets and just you, fresh air, a clear mind and your favourite riding track/Forrest.

[@ChristianPareATLAS]

Completely agree. If I get an ebike it would be when I am too old. The prices don't make sense to me. Then you need to know people who have electric bikes to enjoy. My group of age people are having children so no money for ebikes

[@OwenBikeNerd]

As I mentioned in the video - I'm all about simplifying the ride experience - maximise the joy of the actual riding - so less is more - but I genuinely feel that these new iteration of Electronic suspension could help reduce the faff and help boost just riding time - of course what I'm hoping the ride experience is with these new future systems and the reality could very well be different! Cheers Owen

[@johnli1154]

Great to see the tech around the race pits. However I don’t think that’s something for us ordinary rider to worry about, as competitive equipments has no obligation to make sense to you.

[@chazmondop]

We don’t want electronics on mountain bikes as we don’t want the hassle of charging batteries or the hassle of it not working out on big rides or any ride

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Future electronic suspension systems aside - the battery powered electronic drivetrains - are here already - the battery life is meant to be good - but your not tempted to try?

[@chazmondop]

@@OwenBikeNerd Tried it and the batteries don’t last long enough, don’t work in the cold, don’t work when submerged in water, connections fail, connections wear out quickly, button batteries in shifter go flat during a ride, expensive, the list goes on. A few of my mates are also back to cable for cheaper, hassle free, easy fix gears and dropper posts 👍🏼 (we ride mountain bikes 2-3 times a week in different locations, in all weather conditions so we know what we’re talking about and know what we want and what works)

[@OwenBikeNerd]

@@chazmondop Great insights - thanks for sharing - super interesting that folks are moving back to cables - Again cheers for the insights! Owen

[@chazmondop]

@@OwenBikeNerd No problem as i feel this input is needed and not being listened to 👍🏼 The only electronics we want are E-bikes (my riding group ride both analogue and E-bikes)

[@JeffMTBinVA]

I find the idea of flight attendant like devices interesting. I know nothing about how it works or is setup but if all I had to do was setup sag and then it takes care of compression and rebound to always give me the best possible ride no matter what I'm riding then I think that would be great. As Anna mentioned suspension setup is the biggest question. As Neil learned recently with the BYB, feel doesn't always equal right even for a former racer.

[@ebikescrapper3925]

History repeats itself.

[@MrGourd]

If the industry is pushing more electronics and batteries they'd better start standardizing them or use already available standards. Otherwise they're just making more e-waste, especially when they decide to discontinue using them when they eventually release newer and fancier models which will inevitably will NOT be compatible with the older batteries. Price is another concern considering with proprietary batteries because they are generally not cheap. They could make them all take AA's or AAA's to simplify charging and compatibility instead of stocking a zillion different proprietary batteries for each brand.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Great insights - currently all the SRAM electronic components take the same battery - and thats across road, gravel and mountain bike - and on the forks, shock and dropper - but your right its something that we should think and discuss further! Cheers Owen

[@mrbmw42]

I wholeheartedly concur that there should be a standard here, for the reasons you articulate. I will note, however, that it probably should be something geared toward this kind of application generally (there's perhaps commonality with other industries, too, and should be leveraged if possible). AAs are going to be far too small, and while a 21700 cell might have the necessary energy density the form factor isn't great for this use case IMO. But your core point definitely stands as to to e-waste.

[@92Raulb]

Id prefer to charge batteries and now worry about suspension setup we charge everything else everyday lol our phones our smart watches our computers just add our bikes to the mix 😅

[@Sai-tb1xt]

normally i am all for to each their own, but if somebody comming to the trail with a prada anything , i would not be able to hold the laughs

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Well you'd also not miss them on the trail in the bright bright orange colour either! Cheers Owen

[@Sai-tb1xt]

@@OwenBikeNerd that's for sure XD

[@jonntischnabel]

E bikes and electric suspension are a match made in heaven. You charge the bike up, and hey presto, you have power. They should take power from the main bike battery, like the lights do on a bosch. As for acoustic bikes, i can see why chargin loads of batteries would be a pain.

[@rider65]

🙄🤮

[@mr1982davies]

usd forks with the big players will be the next thing im surprised they haven't jumped on board yet ie fox rockshox ohlins

[@kaberg92]

Electronic suspension, potentially too expensive for world cup rallying. Hmm, i know, why don’t we put it on consumer bikes?

[@mitch_smith]

1,840 for some ugly orange tracksuit? OMG people have lost their damn minds!

[@tim__sadler]

#askgmbntech - ok sitting here watching various coverage of Val di Sole DH with lots of talk again about 'Cut Spike' tyres (something for the mud, but something that will survive the roots) - Schwalbe even make a tool for it - but if there is a need for such a tyre - why doesn't it exist without the requirement to chop little bits of rubber off? Or is the action of the mechanic doing this in a custom way somehow providing that psychological edge to survive the gnar?

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Ooft great question Tim! Yeah we should answer this one in an up coming Ask GMBN Tech! Cheers Owen

[@tim__sadler]

@@OwenBikeNerd I had assumed you had cut down a few beads in your time and could add some solid context here

[@OwenBikeNerd]

@@tim__sadler Indeed - I remember learning the art of tyre cutting - well - but then was very lucky and learnt form the legendary race wrench Jacy - so yes lots of insights to share - watch this space! Cheers Owen

[@tim__sadler]

@@OwenBikeNerd 👀

[@bobwilson3541]

I know it’s heavier, and old tech but fox coils and oil for me, front and rear. Simple and Plush 👍

[@45graham45]

More batteries. I thought everyone was concerned about the planet / enviroment. Turns out not really.

[@smithandshortdogs]

I hate to disagree, but motorsport definitely use electronic suspension. Besides which, most bikers are not race bikers, so a better comparison would be non race vehicles... Cars have been using active suspensions for decades, from changing spring rates with air pressure adjustments, to the GM designed meteorological dampers that are used on everything up to super cars, automotive electronic suspension is very mature and widely used tech: MR shocks were introduced by Cadillac and Corvette over 20 years ago. And if you are looking for something mainstram and offroad... Polaris RZR UTVs are available with active systems....

[@OwenBikeNerd]

All good on disagreeing - but we were trying to be more nuanced than just saying motosports didn't have them - we did cover that the Electronic systems in Rally cars have been banned, so less that they not used in the sport and more they worked so well they got banned - sorry if that wasn't clear enough! Great insights into the UTV's - I'll have to dive into the SxS tech! Cheers Owen

[@davidgeiger8620]

Uähhhh, Mountainbiking is puristic,no electronic on a bike,no reliability! What if the damn batteries are done on a tour?

[@FOTB407]

Don’t care abt electric suspension I want affordable upside down forks

[@jamessher6956]

My future and current suspension is putting less air in my tires. Fully rigid, leave the shocks for my car.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

On the right trails a good rigid Hardtail can be dreamy - are you running a single speed set up too - ultra pure and no distractions? Cheers Owen

[@jamessher6956]

@@OwenBikeNerd One SS Klunker and one fully rigid geared Ti with carbon fork. I’m old and riding easier trails than I use to.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

​@@jamessher6956 both sound awesome - do use the uploader and we'll try and share them on the channel Cheers Owen

[@jamessher6956]

@@OwenBikeNerd I would be happy to share my bike photos but no idea how to upload to you.

[@kevinburke1325]

I am wanting to get an emtb but heard from my neighbor about how the morors keep melting under the heat. When are they going to make more reliable motors?

[@dogmatika7]

Why do I need this stuff? I love my bike, I love my rides, I enjoy every minute that I am out in the woods. Why should I care about this stuff?

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Great insights - You're right do you we need it? I feel thats at the very crux of the question that we're discussing - for some folks I think so - finding the easy of use and overall riding experience to be much much better as result of these new future suspension developments - but yeah its not for everyone and it doesn't have to be either. And thats why - for me at least - the wide world of MTB is so good - we can have and nerd about electronic active suspension bikes and also get nerdy about Made in Germany Steel full suspension bikes - or Single speeds too - whatever helps you get the most out you're riding experience. Great to hear your thoughts on this topic! Cheers Owen

[@Chops00]

5yrs into MTB and starting to realize what a scam the “next new thing” is.

[@Alan-75]

Forget to charge your batteries then they run out half way on an all day ride No thanks.

[@andrew8200m]

Forget to charge a battery and ruin a weekend riding. No thanks.

[@matthewkuhl79]

The only electricity that's kosher on a bike is lighting

[@thomaswysocki9151]

Having gotten back on a mountain bike after 20 years and being on my second season, I've been both impressed and disappointed with bike tech in general. Suspension wise and riding a 180/170 enduro setup (38 and dhx2), I'm constantly fumbling with full/partial lockouts as I ride my local trails. Hard lock for technical climbs and open on the downhill sections. I would love to have a system with 3 position lever in the cockpit that would simply put BOTH front and rear at open, mid and hard. I looked into it, and these systems are available but on low travel XC suspension. What? Ridiculous...but not surprising seeing this is the bike industry. *slow clap*

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Sounds like you're keen to try what could be a future of electronic suspension?

[@hotkarlwithakay]

Previous generation Scott ransoms have the twin lock similar to what you desire.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

@@hotkarlwithakay - great example - the cable operated system have some other bike options too - just on the top of my head the Orbea Oiz and Occam SL have cable systems too - but I feel the potential of these newer electronic systems is more seamless than those - and offer deeper levels of on the fly adjustment - what are you thoughts on the future potentials of the electronics?

[@ArkUSAbikerchick]

I have a Trek Slash 2023 with Flight Attendant that will automatically lockout my Enduro bike for uphill pedaling, set mid, and open suspension for downhill. It is 170/160. I bought the USB-C 4X battery charger with 4 extra batteries. Once a month I can charge and swap batteries on my bikes. I haven’t had any problems with the electronic Suspension or drivetrains. I actually love the Reverb Dropper much better than my cable ones. Much faster!

[@ArkUSAbikerchick]

I have a Trek Slash 2023 with Flight Attendant that will automatically lockout my Enduro bike for uphill pedaling, set mid, and open suspension for downhill. It is 170/160. I bought the USB-C 4X battery charger with 4 extra batteries. Once a month I can charge and swap batteries on my bikes. I haven’t had any problems with the electronic Suspension or drivetrains. I actually love the Reverb Dropper much better than my cable ones. Much faster!

[@AmvC]

Mountainbikes will be all electric in 3-6 years. Manufacturers won't bother developing and producing products that (relatively) nobody wants or buys. Acoustic ones will be like cars without ABS. Yes, there will be a mouring time and a lot of whining about "freedom", "liberty" and such, but in the end, we're all only humans and we need all the help we can get to do at least some half-decent work.

[@AmvC]

it's like painting 25 frames for every second you ride instead of using a digital camera of sorts. One painting will be enough. Maybe two if you're in the mood. But not more. "But but but analog cameras are better in so many ways" et c.

[@clovercover5321]

Prada Jacket for around 2000EUR? No thanks! My second hand BMC Trailfox03 didn't cost the half of this...

[@45graham45]

Electronic suspension. No thanks. It's only racers who might need it. I don't care if my time down a trail is 0.5 secs slower.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

I was in the same thought camp as you - as yeah I'm not wanting be to the fastest - but more to have the most fun when i'm riding and less time faffing with settings - I was drawn into thinking that the potential for these future suspension set-up is that their perfectly tuned as you ride along the trail settings - would minimise the faff - which for me is more fun ok maybe faster as a side effect? Cheers Owen

[@rockyhudson]

£3.5k for a steel frame... LMAO

[@ianbrown2336]

I use a t-shirt bra im dd what do you recommend

[@sled5196]

For the peace of mind of knowing that my suspension is ALWAYS dialed in, I wouldn't mind keeping track of batteries. Snowmobiles and SxS atv's have been running electronic suspension for awhile now. My Ski-doo Snowmobile has SmartShox and it's a dream to ride.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Super interesting to know about the Ski-doo tech - thanks for the insights! Cheer Owen

[@sled5196]

@@OwenBikeNerd Next winter, FOX's new Dynamix electronic shocks will be debuting on the Polaris INDY VR1 trail snowmobile. I believe it's been running on the Polaris ATVs for a bit under the Live-Valve monikor.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

@@sled5196 Super interesting - I'll have to deep dive into some Snow power sports suspension systems! Cheers Owen

[@CreativeFishDesignsCharlotte]

lol its all Fad and the older u get the easier it is to see

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Are you tempted to try these new futures of suspension - or did you try the previous versions already? Cheers Owen

[@CreativeFishDesignsCharlotte]

@@OwenBikeNerd Always teampted , they most likely work great , there just meant for very specialized functions

[@garethhughes5745]

I agree as im old enough, and have 30 years mtb experience. cant say I had this opinion when I was younger though.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

@@CreativeFishDesignsCharlotte I feel thats one of the aspects I find most exciting is that the potential of these new electronic systems is that they could work across a wide range of rider, bike and terrain?

[@OwenBikeNerd]

@@garethhughes5745 Great insights - I mentioned in the video I feel we have seen the industry try to push future designs since well the very early years - but with the new developments from 4 big players in the suspension market it feels like the promise of the old future tech is almost here - could you be tempted to try it?

[@Xbox360gamer5000]

is doddy still here? haven't bin here for a long time?😊

[@matthewvale4545]

He's gone to work for Mondraker

[@TheMHohSoma]

And here I am thinking that DW first founded a company called „Evil Bikes“ and then probably for „Murica“ reasons decided that evil was to anti christian a name and then went with E13, I distinctly remember DW first Chainguide/Bashguard becoming a collectible fast with Evil branding… in the end evil Bikes became a separate entity from E13… but oh well! 😂

[@JD15722]

Electronic suspension should not be allowed in competition. The rider should be the one making the decisions rather than the bike.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Interesting idea - so if the racer had to toggle a lever to get the electronic systems to work that would be better? As we mentioned Rally did ban the electronic suspension system - should be ban it too? Cheer Owen

[@JD15722]

Hi Owen, my thought is that remote lockout (battery or cable) is acceptable and still “manual”, thus the rider has to strategize. This makes for a level playing field. Otherwise the teams with the most money have an even further advantage and we may see the end of privateers. Further, it is not necessarily a giant leap from fully automated suspension to braking assist or even motor assist or other help leaving the rider as simply a steerer.

[@andymakarewich]

Paul Tuner went on to found Rock Shox and Maverick bicycles

[@tomsykes8504]

Already got charge my gearbox shifter. would like the battery to do more.

[@rocky6162]

why not keep the battery charged with power generated thru suspension travel

[@45graham45]

Why are full suss now suddenly called duallies?

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Sorry - thats me trying out a joke - In Germany full suspension bikes are often called Dual suspension bikes or "Duallies" - and as Sour are a German brand - right down to production - I thought some word play might be fun. But yep I'll try better next time. Sorry. Cheers Owen

[@Narezaath]

As for suspension in motorsports comparison, I think one element that wasn't considered in the discussion was the weight of the rider vs (motor/mountain)bike. The suspension will have different dampening characteristics when a 80kg rider rides a 12-15kg mountain bike vs. 120-150kg motorbike. In this case, the inertia will also play a role.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Yes Your right the unsprung mass Vs Sprung mass of an average trail MTB Vs an average Trail Moto is super different - combine with the throttle and power the damping and suspension requirements are quite different - for me I think thats a reasons why on the fly damping control can be a real boost for the average MTB rider - would you consider the electronic systems?

[@Narezaath]

@@OwenBikeNerd I _probably_ would, if upfront and later maintenance costs weren't so prohibitive. As such I cannot justify the purchase with respect to my level of riding, but I still find it very interesting.

[@rider65]

​​@@OwenBikeNerdsuper different? 😂 if it weren't for dirt bikes suspension there would be zero on bicycles. Explain to us how super different it is... unsprung weight & damping aside. They work on the exact same principle you're basically talking about tuning, & different speced internals. What exactly is "super different". 🤦‍♂️

[@OwenBikeNerd]

@@rider65 Great insights! And yes your right without Mert working with Gary Fisher - or Kieth and Paul doing stuff for Kestrel - full suspension wouldn't have grown up so well - so yes the unsprung Vs sprung weight is a very big factor - the other factor which I think is important and warrants my "super" is power to weight - even the most modest of motors can throttle out much more than even the fastest of elite racers - so yes I still feel that Mountain bikes are super different to Moto Dirt bikes in regards to suspension set up and design - your right there is a huge amount that can be done with suspension tuning - but as we've got to pedal mtb's and Emtb's that power weight and suspension efficiencies does make the suspension demands different. Love the feedback and insights - what bike set up are you running? Cheers Owen

[@evanm.2300]

Man... i remember when this was doddy's account basically. It was his baby, then that talkative af guy came in , then finally left to pink bike. And now we have a sweaty wig and a cute older gal but shes not tech knowledgeable enough. Doddy must've been screwed over by corporate

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Thanks for your thoughts - constructive insights are always welcome. But yep just to say - Sweaty perhaps - but a wig its not - all mine own home grown hair. Also Anna is very knowledgeable - and she's raced almost all MTB disciplines - at an Elite level so she knows whats what on bikes. Again constructive insights are welcome. What are you thoughts on the future of suspension? - Do like the Sour Bikes or did the Prada clothing work for you? Cheers Owen

[@raisagil2897]

Lol, I much prefer all-analog everything, zero batteries.

[@rider65]

The future of MTB suspension lies in the womb of moto dirt bike suspension, period. Bicycle Engineers are like the redheaded stepchild of the mechanical engineering family 😂 the best and the brightest will always gravitate towards the automotive and Moto industry. If it weren't for Automobiles and motorcycles MTB would likely still be rigid...🙄🤦‍♂️ There has been very little end extremely Limited breakthrough or new designs for bicycles that weren't either inspired or taken directly from the motorcycle side. Most Bicycle designs are antiquated and outdated and way way overpriced. 🤷‍♂️

[@1969Escobar]

Keep things simple, try to fix a light bulb, cheers

[@geraldmaybebaby1585]

I rode a marin wolfe ridge TARA, 4/5/6 inch rear travel. an AVA rear shock, (adjustable air volume) an adjustable travel fork. With tyre pressures too. It was a long slog to get a tune that was an all rounder. I miss it like the deserts miss the rain.

[@bongobob7079]

Over £3500 for a ill fitting bright orange saftey jacket and trousers. Prada really do love the "more money than sense" brigade.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

But you will see them coming along the trail - so thats a plus right? Cheers Owen

[@billderas3420]

@askgmbntech As I remember, Paul Turner teamed with Steve Simon to create the original Rockshox company. In 1996, Rockshox went public and I invested $1,000 in it (100 shares @ $10/share). By 2002, Rockshox stock had gone downhill due a slowdown in the industry and the company was sold to SRAM. Pretty sure that I received a check totaling of $5 (100 shares @ $.05/share) from my original investment. I was told that Paul Turner was the only one that ended up OK by the deal...But, not so much for his investors.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Hi Bill, This is an awesome story - not so awesome that the $1000 downturned to $5. Cheers Owen