GMG Reviews - LEGIONS IMPERIALIS - Legions Astartes Armylist (and each Legion's rules!)

[@jhl5093]

I do like that GW added a quick start detachment and scenario so that players can use a mixed force (under downloads from the community site). The scenario itself even has an optional rule to allow a Warhound to both sides, regardless of usual limits.

[@christopherm4510]

posted a link to this above - I hadn’t seem it prior but ran across is while searching for info on Storm Eagle transport size

[@TroyTempest777]

Wow! Cant wait to see how this is. I remember buying Space Marine epic boxset back in 1989! I was pretty young,saw all the models on the boxart on the back,thought they were full sized!😂..luckily the game was a lot of fun over the years!😅

[@zephroc9697]

Good that there's not lots of custom rules per legion. If you zoom out and there's a Titan stomping around the differences are quite subtle.

[@shadowkynn]

I've played multiple games and I gotta say, the space wolves actually have a massive rule here and the guy in my group playing them has used it very well. He completely shuts down the raven guard player, and has had impacts on all of us players. The thousand sons got shafted, the shield rule only works within 6" of the Hq, and has only come up when getting hit with titans since not much has more than -2 ap.

[@tbd3058]

The Space Wolves have one of the worst special rules

[@cyberdan42]

Superb, so comprehensive and useful, thanks mate.

[@meffeli]

From what they've shown on WarCom it seems the Rapiers, Tarantulas, Leviathans and Deredeo's might come in one box. We'll see!

[@omegonchris]

Yes, they've stated it will be a single box with 4 of each

[@Hundmathr]

Man, the Space Wolves got shafted.

[@volcano3493]

Epic Space Marine (2nd) was released in the 90s. So was the overpowered Space Wolves codex for 2nd 40K. The doggies getting the shaft this time around is poetic justice for past crimes during the 90s era. I wouldn´t shed a tear for them.

[@BroadHobbyProjects]

I do wish they made the Astartes infantry feel a little more dominant. Even if it meant just giving all Astartes infantry types the reinforced armour (old rule) that allowed you to re-roll armour saves. Obviously increasing the pts to accommodate this, as I feel Astartes aren't as well represented as they should be compared to the likes of Epic Armageddon rules with those stats that showed how much more effective they would be. Would balance out the Soalr auxilla having numbers and superior armour.

[@Subtleknife12367]

Yeah that is my big complaint. The astartes infantry just don't feel like space marines.

[@BroadHobbyProjects]

@@Subtleknife12367 I know the solar Auxilla lore wise and stats wise had very powerful lasguns. Good armour and the best training/kit the golden age imperium had. But Astartes should feel more destructive on the battlefield. Given the Auxilla only have 6+ armour when they have 4+ carapace in 32mm Horus Heresy I get it makes sense compared to Astartes who get 5+ in LI & 3+ in HH. But given they're meant to be very tough too this factor feels almost not represented. Especially in melee when none gets an armour save which is silly. Probably the only big rule I'm not a fan of. Means terminators don't get their 4+ either. Even allowing marines to have their saves in melee would be a huge change to really balance out the Astartes Vs Solar Auxilla imbalance to point/effectiveness bar.

[@simongunkel7457]

Well, all the Epic systems had the problem that infantry could not be differentiated enough until E:A introduced the AP/AT sytem. Since LI is based on SM/TL it returns to that problem.

[@Flamethrower1942]

Why can't GW do thw battletech model of era specific fights so for example you play 30k using 30k rules and if you want to play badaab wars you play that period and so up to the current period ,that way they have one game system with different scenario or army books to cover the period so nothing is broken to much .

[@rinaskela]

I love this new intro music, so much better 🙂

[@adhdengineer]

they really need to do epic 40k using the same basic system...

[@michaelschonhofen622]

The Blood Angels special rule sound powerful, but you have to keep im mind how melee works. If a model has already fought, the enemy model gets one additional dice.

[@asowle]

I grab a cup of English Tea and enjoy this later today...

[@turbosnowy]

This applies to everything at any time btw

[@Munjan007]

Wish you talked about legion mixing because some of these legion abilities make these legions great 'support/allied' legions than mains. I know that stinks for people that wanted to run some of the legions as mains but, as was shown in WD, legions like Emperors Children have great support abilities. Just spend a bit on them and you get their full legion abilitiy benefit. Death guard is a good example of a legion that could work great as either a main or support. If you don't care about their dangerous terrain protection, you can still use their bombardment ability as a support.

[@Jezza_One]

I cant think of many other 30k armies I suppose you could have demonkind, orks, eldar, mechanicus and custodians.

[@12345langham]

People are expecting this to grow into full Epic at some point, I reckon If the game has a good following ( like 30k appears to) it may (it'll be ages though)

[@livanbard]

​@@12345langhamexpect epic 30k was expanded from epic 40k. That already contained those armylists. All the guys did was to included HH stuff.

[@kapitanbeuteltier5889]

Orks are very 30k too

[@tragicthegarnering3619]

I feel like once they finish the hh setting they will then do a game set around the beast with orks.

[@benbevan1442]

Thats my hope as well. Orcs and Eldar would be both a homage to the original Epic releases and completely compatible with HH.

[@tando6266]

​@@benbevan1442they have been pretty up front they are not doing xenos

[@el-cee]

This is not really a Astartes related question, but when i read through the rules and profiles of the vehicles, i came across something that is not clear to me. How may sponsons does a vehicle have (rules wise)? [as in how many can i fire... 1x or 2x] The way i read it, the vehicle has 1 weapon profile (for both) sponsons. So while i have 2 heavy bolters sponsons on my predator, i can only shoot one of them. When i now look at the Kratos profile it still only mentions "sponson mounted heavy bolters or sponson mounted lascannon", but for the hull mounted weapons specifically mentions, that the Kratos has "two" of those. The Baneblade wording for the sponson turrets is different, again, as this just doubles the shots for the "lascannon sponson turret".

[@jakubfabisiak9810]

If Gee Dubs wants to make an impression, is add Orks, and run Ullanor

[@volcano3493]

I painted the SM contingent of the core box in seven days. My experiences while doing so: - The model parts fit nicely. - Even the the fiddly things like lascannons didn´t snap. Good material. - Don´t try to paint eye lenses. You will only hurt your eyes and the result will be bad despite using a magnifying lens. - If you have hands the size of shovels don´t bother with LI. You will simply fail to assemble the really fiddly stuff like glueing missile launchers to SM shoulders. Concerning the core rules: March Orders should triple the movement value of transport vehicles instead of infantry. Nowadays there is a trend which favours foot-slogging meaning not having transports is not much of a deal just like in 30K. Comparing that to Epic Space Marine 2nd is a big difference where Rhinos drove max. 50 cm/turn and infantry walked max. 20 cm/turn. If you want to have an edge with infantry in the movement department pick Raven Guard. Terminators only having CAF+4 instead of CAF+6 like in the past feels also not good. Apart from that the core rules are quite solid. Warhound weapon loadout: Signature weapons were the vulcan mega-bolter (stripping void shields) and the plasma blastgun (blowing up the enemy titan). Guess which weapon is included in the core box? Neither of them! You are apparently supposed to buy a titan weapon upgrade box in six months just like they did in Necromunda. Geez! Battle tanks locked in core box: I haven´t seen an upgrade box containing predators, sicarans, leman russes and malcadors so far. So this means the only way to get them is via multiple core boxes?! I am doing an Iron Hands Blitzkrieg tank army and filling the rest of my force with mainly Kratos tanks is not an attractive choice.

[@barrelwimp2698]

I only hope we see demons that would be rad

[@TheRhandolph]

I intend to play Solaris Auxilia but do think marines would feel more astates with a 4+ save.

[@Jammybee]

With the amount of AP, i think all infantry saves could go up TBH.

[@Subtleknife12367]

They should have used a D8 or something

[@squallgoku777]

Any chance of seeing the Primarchs ingame for Legions Imperialis?

[@WolfTau]

So do you need two boxes to make those Plasma units in the marine squads you mentioned?

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Correct

[@volcano3493]

And Terminators. And Assault Marines. And Devastators.

[@bryanpierce5000]

How many squads/units do the flyers transport? Trying to figure out how many someone would need to create an Aerial Assault Company reasonably… like what can you fit in a Thunder hawk or Storm Eagle…

[@brynfrawley8852]

I think 8 for thunderhawk, I think this was covered in a gw community article if I remember rightly

[@BrutalBadger1]

I would houserule the more challenged legions like giving Emperors Children +1 on morla tests and give Space Wolves the furios charg rule in adittion to what the book says. Think that would fit the legions fluff whise. Also the good thing about the new models only having a tab between their legs is that its easy to gut of since its plastic and adn you can stick them on clear bases instead. Have i mentioned i really hate doing bases? :)

[@florian79fg]

Where's the ommph in the intro?

[@benjaminloyd6056]

petition to Bring back the grungy rock intro.

[@bt-ft1tz]

Great rundown of the legions, thank you! Waiting for my own copy but maybe you can answer a question for me: Can you mix traitor and loyalist legions or are there essentially 2 separate factions of marines?

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

It’s Horus heresy. Anyone can be loyal or traitor in your narrative

[@bt-ft1tz]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames Thanks very much, I felt that was the case but hadn't been able to confirm it yet!

[@PMMagro]

I don't know any rules but it is a civil war. I think most legions could end up fighting each other if you want to?

[@aaronst.pierre3080]

You should paint Luna Wolves. :P

[@criticalcommenter]

Why is everyone saying that raven guard are top tier due to the infiltrate yet they also say denying infiltration is a useless skill? If infiltrate is so strong then wouldnt denying it being used against you be equally powerful?

[@tbd3058]

Because it’s completely useless against everybody else (except Alpha Legion)

[@lordofuzkulak8308]

Am I delusional, or have we not seen models for stuff like land raiders, drop pods, etc already previewed? How come they’re not in the army lists in the book? Does this mean there are going to be codices for the armies with fuller lists, or are GW going to go down the route of including the rules for a detachment as cards in the detachment box set and the only way to get those rules (legally) will be to buy the detachment box set? 🤔

[@ianwieserman1068]

Pretty sure they're going the same way they did with Adeptus Titanicus and Necromunda. Release a bunch of books and each one will have a few new rules and units. I think they already confirmed two more books with those units you mentioned in them. I personally hate being nickel and dimed to death by this, but that's the GW business model.

[@Nephilim225]

i was interested until i saw a video pointing out if could cost up to $1000 + for a 3000 point army

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Honestly there’s no reason to play the game at that size

[@Khornishman]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames Sure there is, but the question is, do I really need a reason?

[@mtnbiker78]

3D printed minis will cost you a fraction of that. And there's lots of black Friday deals on printers right now.

[@jonhallin8885]

If you want a very specific army with only the most expensive models, yeah, you might be able to reach a cost like that. But a more normal army should cost less than half of that.

[@Nephilim225]

@@jonhallin8885 yeah but even half the price the models are so expensive. You can get 2000 epic 13mm American Civil War minis in a starter box with scenery for like $150 for example. GW are way too expensive in a time when people are tightening their belts. Shame and they should have done 40K epic not 30K another own goal

[@repentia1]

what do bikes fall under in the org charts, i wanna do whitescars in LI and trying to plan out my preorders for what ill need

[@storm6661]

Vanguard I think. The bigger two seaters probably in light vehicles. Just my educated guess.

[@justinkemple7925]

No rules for the speeders and jetbikes? they were used in the battle report in the white dwarf article..

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Probably in an expansion then.

[@fiftyv2.076]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames that was confirmed in the WD article. It will be called The Great Slaughter.

[@bigjollyeammon]

BOY HOWDY!

[@jrr1079]

Didn't they have orcs in Horus heresy?

[@danielebarolo9582]

My god i want everything

[@tokoyonokuni4656]

Yep... Imperius Dominatus is definitively better at representing the various Legions.

[@andreasell1830]

As space wolves player, im a little bit upset

[@shadowkynn]

He's got the wolves all wrong, don't worry. In my group all players have to stop with infiltrate and reserve when playing the wolves player, since he shuts everything down.

[@ElSWVisitor]

Bring the primarchs! 😃

[@lordravenblade]

If they don’t release orks eldar etc this is gonna flop like the last epic release, when they only released orks and marines. At least the other armies had rules and a limited “mail order only” availability, if this has nothing it’s gonna be bad.

[@davidwasilewski]

So how many detachments would people predict would be in a 3000 marine army? (No allies). Just wondering how many order counters to try to get? About 30? 😱

[@Mescaline82]

Thank you but, Please, stop placing the stereo sound all left. This is not a dynamic stereo scene, you are not moving in it, the sound shouldn't be set 80% Left like this ! It's barely audible on earphones. Think about it, a 30min long video about game rules in one ear !

[@aperson7552]

At this point I honestly wish they'd just leave legion choice as purely cosmetic and a genuine rules mirror match on the tabletop. While the legions imperialis options don't seem as egregious as the differences in Horus Heresy, its still going to influence what some people pick, which is a shame and basically means you're making a decision between effectiveness on the tabletop and the legion you actually most like lore or aesthetic wise. I'll probably still ask people to just play without legion special rules altogether with an opponents agreement, but rather than just flat refusing to play certain very obviously stacked lists insisting on using them like I did in HH (Hello Mr Imperial Fists with about as many bolt weapons as you can possibly fit in a list. That seems about as fun a game as a punch in the nuts, so go find another sucker!) I think the differences won't be so completely oppressive, and will go with it if people want to use them.

[@scepteredisle]

None of us can afford this.

[@ElSWVisitor]

I already did thanks to the extra 4 months waiting for release 😂

[@SamMijal]

Grab a 3D printer while they are on sale!

[@Khornishman]

I so cannot afford this that I pre-ordered two of the core boxes and plan on ordering two more next month.

[@BentJacket]

I cant :(

[@RowdiesFan1]

I was afraid of the same thing. I went hard into Kill Team 21 at launch, but that's fizzled for a while. I went hard into Votann, but that's fizzled a bit. Suddenly I find myself with lots of hobby cash and Epic looks like a perfect way to spend it.

[@gogglebox2456]

You mean horus heresy only involves imperial armies lmfao the scandal!

[@livanbard]

Man what a let down. Fan games have better legion rules than that.

[@storm6661]

They're all fine though? Well the night lords one seems meh but flavour wise it's cool.

[@nvcn86]

of course there's not going to be xenos, this is HH.

[@mattyno964]

Not everyone knows that though

[@brandonvancurler6863]

100% disappointed on NOT using the smaller scale to make weapons fire not nerf gun range. I will Not be using those ranges as max range but "effective" range. I already think its silly that a weapon that gets shot at void craft in orbit cant shoot two blocks in AT18.

[@tbd3058]

I doubt people will allow you to just make your own rules because you feel like it. Cool story though