GNS430W, Dual G5, STec30 LPV Approach

Piper Cherokee 180 with Garmin G5 PFD and G5 HSI interfaced to a Garmin 430W and STec-30 Autopilot flying an LPV coupled approach into KORE.

[@jeffreywnek98]

Found this because I'm looking at a plane with the S-Tec 30, 430W, and Aspen 1000..coincidently, I soloed at the Orange Airport back in the early 1990s!

[@hiker64012]

Good job with pitch and power settings allowing you to fly a very stable approach. I've seen the STec's overshoot the initial turn like that which is why if they haven't started the turn where the raw data indicates they should have, I'll start the turn for them. Especially when it knows what the actual winds are, it shouldn't overshoot. If it continues to, I'd have the avionics shop adjust it. Nice video, good approach and landing.

[@jsorbieus]

Nice vid! We just installed a pair of G5’s in our 172 and love em!

[@rlkinser]

Looking to add these to my newly purchased 180, thank you so much for the video!

[@keithcarlton2054]

Lee Kinser we are considering adding an hsi g5 to our 180. Also has a 430 and stec 30 what do you think so far? Worth the $$?

[@luisruiz2430]

Awesome video thank you for sharing

[@paulb5181]

Very helpful!! Thanks for posting.

[@maheralazzawi7814]

GOOD job

[@patrickwhalen4781]

Thanks Tom. Just wondering, why did you not leave the autopilot connected until closer to DA? Due to AP limitation i.e. no lower than 400 AGL? Would it track well on GPSS when you're closer to the ground, or would bumps not allow it to track well close in?

[@tomnery]

I didn’t disengage the autopilot for any specific reason. I thought I accomplished what I wanted for the video. I’ll probably run the same approach in the near future. I adjusted the gain parameter that drives the autopilot and find it now doesn’t hunt as much. If I do, I’ll post the new video and leave it connected until DA to show how well it tracks as the lateral is more narrow.

[@reyesben]

Do you have the hdg/GPSS button installed on the dash? I assume it’s in GPSS mode? Our s-tec 30 has trouble centering on the GPS track.

[@tomnery]

I use the G5 menu to select GPSS mode once I've put the Stec into Heading mode. I haven't noticed any track offset, but you may want to look to see if you have an offset set in the 430W.

[@mannypuerta5086]

A couple of points... The G5 ADI/PFD displays airspeed in knots and the original ASI displays it in MPH (outer ring). That would never be sanctioned in a company operation. I’m surprised an avionics shop would configure it that way. The G5 is reconfigurable. The G5 ADI/PFD attitude/roll bars and display can be reconfigured for sky up and a dual cue/Sperry type of display from the V-bar display for those folks who are used to that configuration in larger aircraft. My scan and control was thrown off until I made the change. That display is small and roll/pitch control accuracy when hand flying is much more difficult. Making the change, as described, improves hand flying the airplane. If the STEC is doing the flying, wouldn’t it control the vertical profile with pitch?

[@ryanturner6582]

The stec 30 is a single axis AP - it doesn’t have pitch.

[@mannypuerta5086]

@@ryanturner6582 Ah...but the pilot still has pitch, and so would the AP, if equipped with pitch control.

[@lopesanderson19]

Thank you so much for pointing this out. I was about to ask why the asi and g5 speeds are different. 😂

[@N741SP]

Good video...

[@chuckm1320]

Great flying! Where did you get the panel fascia from? Much better than the old brittle plastic... Any idea where to get the instrument panel replacement?

[@tomnery]

My avionics shop did the panel upgrade as part of the G5 installation. I agree, it is much better than the original plastic overlay. Someday I’ll have to upgrade the right side of the panel.

[@JoseMosczytzMadeira]

There is a big difference between the airspeed indicator and speed tape on the G5. Why is that? Thanks

[@tomnery]

The difference was at my request. My '66 Cherokee's ASI was calibrated in MPH, which is what the installer first set my G5 for. However when I fly in the system I always use Kts, so found myself converting frequently. So to make my life easier, I asked that the G5 be calibrated for kts indicated airspeed, with the Vx,y,so in kts as well. Since my analog ASI is primary I meet the requirements of my flight manual, but I also simplify my life by not having to convert.

[@JoseMosczytzMadeira]

@@tomnery congrats for the G5 and the App

[@aviatortrucker6285]

I noticed you were flying the GPS while the STC 30 was in HD mode. I thought you had to have it in track low or track high. I used one the other night in a piper warrior, but when I was flying the approach and I was going to do the procedure turn, as soon as I crossed the fix the STC 30 did not turn the aircraft enough into a standard rate turn and it basically blew the hold in lieu track completely. I also see that if you have to go more than 10° to get on track, it is best to put it in HD mode and use the heading bug. Do you have this same situation? As far as tracking a GPS it does fine in a straight line. I have an Aspen, and had the unit selected in GPSS mode to fly with the GPS steering.

[@tomnery]

According to the stec-30 manual, if you are flying in gpss mode, the autopilot should be in heading mode. This allows the GPSS steering source to fly routes, intercept and turn towards, etc. heading low and hi mode are only used to track a course. I use Hi mode to fly an ILS approach, but GPSS & Headings mode to intercept the ILS. Hope this makes sense, if not, I’d suggest you try it. I’ve been flying my STEC-30 with gpss mode for 10 years, as I’ve stated.

[@aviatortrucker6285]

@@tomneryI flew on a VOR approach with the GPS. The STEC-30 was very lazy in the procedure turn as it over shot the final approach course. I was waiting for it to be on course with the GPS and then I would switch to VLOC and then change the STEC-30 to Track Lo so it could fly the VOR course. Unfortunately, I had to use the Heading mode to get established first. I was told the STEC was very poor on fixes that are close together at large angles like 60 degree course changes and procedure turns and holds. Do you find this true? I know it keeps you busy but the best way to fly is on heading mode using the heading bug to start turns early and to finalize them onto course. If you need more aggression, use the ST mode. Once you were established on course, you can go back to GPSS or track low/high depending if you are on an ILS or a VOR.

[@tomnery]

@@aviatortrucker6285 I find the capture of the final approach course depends greatly on the intercept angle. The closer to a 90 degree turn, the more overshoot. However, I find with the STec in Heading mode and my G5 in GPSS mode it will capture however it tends to wander on the final course. This was not the case when I had STEC’s GPSS unit and is probably tuning in the G5. Recently, I’ve been switching to Track Hi on the final approach instead of using GPSS to reduce hunting.

[@aviatortrucker6285]

@@tomnery I’ll tell you I flew an archer that had a similar but different unit in it. It wasn’t in the turn coordinator. It was a separate panel, which had several buttons. On off, ALT, NAV, APP and REV. The center turn button if pressed would switch it to heading or stabilization mode. I believe this is a different model of the STEC. One thing I do know about both of them was when I was flying a heading and wanted to intercept an airway out of fix which was about 80° to the left, there was a definite overshoot as the aircraft only turned about 10° in NAV mode. There is another KZbinr that explains about the STEC - 30 and also states that because it is only a two axis simple auto pilot that navigational turns are very shallow. In order to get a good standard rate turn you have to use either heading mode and lead it or use stabilization mode and adjust the bank. In any case, it would be nice to afford a Garmin 500 or 600 auto pilot. I even like the KAP 140 that we have in a Cessna 172. That one has vertical adjustment with altitude capture. Would like to see you do a video where you are flying GPS and then have to switch over to VLOC for an ILS. That would be interesting to watch how the auto pilot reacts. Keep up the good work.

[@tomnery]

@@aviatortrucker6285 i believe the unit autopilot you describe is an stec 55 or 55x. Both are good units. One difference of the stec 30 is that it doesn’t do a standard rate turn, but about 90% standard rate. This means it will typically overshoot if gps turn anticipation is on, but not by much. I have done simulation video on the GPSS to ILS approach switch. I’ll try and find that video and send a link.

[@reyesben]

Excellent video. I’m close to buying a 72 pa-28-180 with s-tec 30 2 axis and 430W. I’ve never used the AP so this is so helpful to see. How does one acquire the training?

[@tomnery]

I didn’t need any training, but if you have questions after you start flying it, just ask.

[@reyesben]

@@tomnery thank you Tom! I will. I’m in your neck of the woods also. KBAF. Also, is the RPM a restriction a common thing I should know about on the lycoming 360? The one I’m in pre-buy for has a digital tachometer

[@tomnery]

@@reyesben Benny, maybe we’ll meet up some time in the near future. The RPM restriction is very common for the Cherokee. There were 2 engines utilized, the O360-A3A and the O360-A4A. The A3A has a hollow crankshaft that could be used for constant speed prop oil pressure (this is the engine I have). The restriction is needed because with the hollow crankshaft a harmonic vibration can develop within the restricted range (2150 to 2350) that in worse case has caused the loss of a prop blade ( I think it has occurred at least 3 times). I’ve flown withe the restriction for 18 years, both VFR and IFR with no problem. The biggest issue I have is when I fly with Cessna 172s, the restricted range is where they like to fly. If you would like to add me as a facebook friend “Tom Nery” we can message in the future.

[@cherokee592]

How can an S-TEC30 fly a coupled approach? Or do mean the lateral axis is coupled and you have to set the glide manually?

[@tomnery]

You're right, a S-Tec30 can only fly the approach laterally, I fly the vertical path manually.

[@cherokee592]

@@tomnery Thanks, that's what I thought! The 430W probably will still show "LPV" in this case but you use LNAV minima. Correct?

[@tomnery]

@@cherokee592 No, with the 430W and required HSI or CDI, you can fly to LPV minimums by hand, in fact you can fly the entire approach by hand. With the G5 tracking the lateral, it is very easy to follow the glideslope.

[@reyesben]

Why the RPM restriction?

[@chuckh8199]

Im looking to add 2 G5s and an s-tec 55 to my 172 - wondering if the stec will follow the G5 HSI heading bug in heading mode - ( there seems to be some contradicting info out there - wondering your thoughts ) thanks

[@tomnery]

I'm sorry, I can't comment on the s-tec 55 directly, but I can explain how it operates with the s-tec 30. If I put my s-tec 30 into heading mode, it follows the G5 heading bug. If I switch my G5 to GPSS (GPS roll steering) mode, my GNS430W will drive the S-tec as if it were moving the heading bug, but the G5 heading bug does not track the GPS heading (so it becomes just a reminder type bug for the G5). Also when the GNS430W drives the G5 in GPSS mode, the autopilot can drive an entire flight plan with course changes, holds and approaches. If I put my S-Tec 30 into Fast or Normal tracking mode, the S-Tec will be driven directly by my GNS-430W and not through the G5. This mode does not allow the GPS to follow a complete route. I hope this is clear, if not ask more. Sorry I don't have an s-tec 55 to really answer the question (and I mean this as the 55 would be an improvement over the 30) :-) Tom

[@chuckh8199]

@@tomnery - thanks tom - yes makes sense -

[@veroflyboys]

Autopilot question ... Why did you not fly the approach in GPSS? You were using the heading mode on the STEC 30. I love the heading mode on the STEC 30, but will fly the RNAV in High Track GPSS once I am established on the IA fix.

[@tomnery]

GPSS (roll steering) is used with the STEC in heading mode. In high track mode the GPSS is driving the STEC directly. GPSS thought the G5 with STEC in heading mode allows the STEC to make turns and capture headings, whereas the GPS mode requires you first to get within 5 degrees of final course. Also if in the GPSS with heading mode, if I go kissed, the GPS will do it including turns and capturing hold. I guess I could switch modes once established to prevent the hunting and then switch back to heading if going missed, I just prefer to minimize workload. When I used STEC’s GPSS hardware driving heading mode I never had the same hunting.

[@veroflyboys]

My Archer has two G5's installed and a Garmin 430W … for the heading bug to work on the G5, I cannot be in GPSS, it is either heading or GPSS. If GPSS is active on the G5, my heading bug will not work. I use the heading bug to get me tracking close to the course, intercept it in HDG mode and then activate the GPSS.

[@tomnery]

Vero Flyboys I reread the manual and the GDL29 is used in heading mode, when coupled with an older analog autopilot, which the STEC30 is. What is you autopilot?

[@veroflyboys]

The GAD29B is an analog digital converter. Yes, you can fly HDG with the STEC 30 but it cannot be in GPSS and Heading Bug Mode at the same time. The G5 gives you the option of one or the other. Nest time you fly, press the options button on the G5 and see if GPSS is active. If it is, the airplane will not respond (fly) to the heading bug movement. It can be in HDG mode, but it is flying the course from the Garmin 430W, if GPSS is active on the G5. I have the STEC 30 with Alt hold, two G5's and a 430W.

[@veroflyboys]

@@tomneryf I can see your G5 HSI correctly in the video, you are not using the heading bug. You are flying GPSS and all commands are coming from the 430W. If you do go missed, you need to take it out of GPSS and go to heading mode, to be able to use the heading bug.

[@dcheever777]

Thanks for the nice video Tom, I really like the way you were able to use the inset windows. Since you like to use MPH instead of Kts have you considered reconfiguring your G5? I'm pretty sure you can choose. I have dual G5's and a GFC 500 autopilot with a video posted here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5SzoKuch7yYjJY

[@tomnery]

I requested the G5's display airspeed in kts. When I fly in the system I always use Kts, so found myself converting frequently. So to make my life easier, I asked that the G5 be calibrated for kts indicated airspeed, with the Vx,y,so in kts as well. Since my analog ASI is primary I meet the requirements of my flight manual, but I also simplify my life by not having to convert.