Torque Tuning in HP Tuners, Tuning Series Vol. 6

[@scottprimeau9325]

I spent 700.00 dollars to learn about tuning, and you explain it better then the books also you tell us why we change what we change. BIG THANKS!

[@patriot101101]

KZbin is better than any book.

[@4mulaJoe]

Your channel is the first place I've found actual help for Gen5 tq modeling. Very much appreciate it!

[@calebnelms2003]

This is super helpful and much appreciated. The simple tweaks to the VT tables you outlined were night and day in my application (TTV6 LF3). The car drives like it has turbos now instead of turbo assist. This will keep me happy until I can really get into logging and adjusting all the other torque and demand tables.

[@gio0829]

I gotta say man I really enjoyed this video thanks a whole lot! Keep it up. I'm just starting on tuning and been messing around with my truck, but I'm fixing to do my buddy's C7 Corvette so I've been watching your videos religiously lol

[@gio0829]

A little update lol I tuned on my buddy's C7 today. We added a CAI and he had a catback exhaust put in a couple weeks ago. So I Was trying to get the MAF dialed in, did some logging, flashed it and turned it on. And FAIL lol car started to idle pretty rough to where it just about died. 😔 we ran out of time so I just put his stock file back in it. It's eating me alive tho as to what went wrong.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Double check all your steps to make sure that you were forcing open loop, most likely you still had the O2 sensors adjusting fueling and it will their everything off. You'll get it figured out!

[@chevyno1740]

I know this was 5 years ago and I hope you see this comment. Firstly - thank you so much for your knowledge and the sharing of it. I have learned a LOT from you and I really appreciate it. I do have a question. At 4:15, you mention that when performance mods are done, these tables must be tweaked. Does that apply also to MAF-only? I have a 2011 Grand Sport with cam/headers/TVS, and these tables and VVE haven't been touched. Car runs great, but should I be touching these tables? If so - do I need to start from scratch, does anything that HAS been done need to be backed out?

[@shinysun771]

Thank you for the nice video. Do you mind if I ask you a question? I have gen6 camaro SS supercharged and after shifting , tq management pulls timing alot. especially 2nd to 3rd gear. At that time, predicted and immediate engine torque source both say "RPM limit". I have no idea what it means.

[@Boostlee]

you sir are the absolute best.

[@jaydubb71]

Yo dude. I must say this video really helped me a lot. Not a lot of info about the Virtual Torque tables. Ancient Chinese Secret maybe? So... I decided to actually try this on my POV. Whew lawd. I recently dyno'd my car and couldnt understand for the life of me why my HP was high (not as high as I expected considering my mods...) and my TORQUE was SOOOOO disappointing! After watching this video, I took a look at my dyno sheet AND my Virtual Torque tables and had a "AHHHHHHHH" moment. So I made some adjustments like you demonstrated in this video. I CAN ACTUALLY FEEL THE DIFFERENCE! Now to dyno again. LOL! Thanks a lot dude! GREATLY APPRECIATED! You really should charge for this information. LOL!

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Dude, that's the crazy thing, you can feel it make more power. I helped someone else the other day that was running into the same thing, car was making great power up until a certain point and it started to feel flat, looked at his torque tables and they were stock, added 15% and it was a holy crap moment!

[@jaydubb71]

@@GoatRopeGarage Yeah man. When I dyno'd the car, I could HEAR the car literally LAY DOWN (sounded like it revved pretty good until then and then it sounded like it was almost done...) around 5000 RPM BUT I couldnt tell when I was hauling butt on the highway. But now... WOW is all I can say. Thanks again. Ive never seen any info on this before...

[@jasonz28camaro]

Any update on making a video showing how to make histograms?

[@medic148066]

As always, thanks for the video. I don't have the option to add a PID for 'Final Throttle Torque Req', the closest I can find is 'Driver Final Axle Torque Req'. I guess this isn't a huge deal, I could always set up a graph for throttle position vs torque req. Looking forward to the rest of the series - even though you don't think you're an expert on transmission tuning, I'm sure most people (myself included) would appreciate anything you have to offer. Now I need to get off my arse and finish dialling in my VVE table.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

That one isn't really critical, just a good to know kind of one. The big ones are the first two, the engine torque and predicted torque and then the last ones that show what is in control of the torque. Thanks for the feedback, as always, and let me know if you run into any issues finishing up those VVE tables!

[@snivesz32]

Did Kyle ever post the video he said he would about how to do VTT tuning accurately using the scanner? I can't find it if he did.

[@tomsmith4744]

I would like to see some chrysler tuning. I have my dodge ram 1500. And trying to understand torque management torque adapts on it

[@dustinmcmahan1445]

Thank you for all the videos and information! Also, have you uploaded the video showing how to make a histogram for the VTT yet? I’m in need of it lol Again, thank you

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Thanks! No because it is more of a process of seeing where you hit your torque limits and making adjustments to the VTT to keep from hitting those limits. There are a couple videos I've done on it, look at the Gen V and quick tuning tips playlists. www.tuning101.com

[@booostin21psi]

I’ve been watching your videos for a few months now, learning how to tune for my upcoming motor swap. Would you be willing to provide a base tune for me to work from? I’m converting my 18 Tahoe from a 5.3 to a 6.2 with a cam and want a good base tune where I can break the new motor in, drive around and fine tune as I continue my day to day driving.

[@edmundu]

Great video! is there any way you can take look at my tune? Its a 18 zl1 with ported blower NW 103TB, cat deletes with a Rotofab intake it is tuned but the virtual torque wasn't tune tried to touch up the tune myself with HP but didn't touch the virtual torque it made 620 whp 580 wtq which is not bad but was making around 12lbs of boost should've been higher.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

I've got a video coming out soon just about that topic, working on the best way of teaching how to address the virtual tuque. Until then you can check out the Patreon by going to www.goatropegarage.com

[@edmundu]

Awesome I appreciate it! Ty your approach and info is awesome! I will use the patreon feature which is very reasonable the tune I referred to is for a buddy that went to adyno shop and I touched it up but being Gen V gave me a lot of questions that you helped with!!!

[@notbuyingit8047]

I’m using EFI live and the differences in the naming of the PIDs is making this tougher. What are the names of the thing to log in EFI live?

[@stevens1030]

Would you know why i can not get my 07 2500 4x4 to log torque ? I have added to rhe pid but when i hook up it drops most of the pids. Thanks

[@aerialasturias9785]

Love this videos!! I want to start tuning and this helps a lot to understand how all works I have a coulpe questions, when you talk about 4th generation and so what are you talking about: Ecu's? Engines? And is tuning the same for diesel engines?? Thanks!

[@DStout92]

Does this same technique apply to vvt on a 6th gen looking at the tables they are more curved. But if i add the percentage as a whole to each cam degree setting they seem more accurate 🤷‍♂️. only know what i learn from your videos

[@GoatRopeGarage]

6 gen Camaro or 6th Gen ECU?

[@DStout92]

@@GoatRopeGarage camaro

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Yep, you’re in the right place

[@rasulnurutdinov8787]

I was told that if I increase the torque, the ignition timing will change. Is that true?

[@bobbybrothers495]

Love watching your videos. There very understandably. Watched ur video on how to hook up ur wideband up thru serial port. Just dont really understand how it's working thru hptuners.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

The software looks for activity on the serial port when you launch it. You should only have to add the parameter to your list, it's kind of obtuse how the designed it.

[@mforse2]

Just rebuilt my 6l80 and added a 2800 stall on basically a stock truck. I've been watching your videos and reading through forums about tuning the 6l80. There is alot of different info out there about pressures and shift times. What has worked for you after adding a stall?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

This is just something you have to test on your own, everything reacts differently on the trans side after changes.

[@franksotomayor7341]

Hey Kyle I just updated my Hp tuner (with Bata) I had a very old version I now am showing toque tables I have Gen IV 2007 Yukon 5.3 e85 wth 60e will I have to adjust these tables running on gas only keep up the good wk very much appreciated 😬

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Not until you get way out there in the mods, the stock ones are good for a bit more power already

[@nsboost]

Love the truck. I have a black 07 rcsb with black chrome race stars. Ain't even close to as fast as yours but its a fun truck.

[@bigbubba5289]

So I completed idle, MAF, and Speed Density Tuning and now I am ready to tune the torque tables, or so I thought. 2016 Colorado custom 3.6L V6 engine with S/C kit. Right off the bat I am confused because the Virtual Torque Tables will only go to 50 degrees and some of my settings are in the 60's. What to do? Also, some of my settings are negative and multiplying the negative makes the negative lower instead of higher; is that OK because it seems to me that would not be good.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

No, you don't want to add more to the negative tables. With a supercharger you shouldn't be running any where near even 30 degrees of timing under boost, if you exceed that off throttle it doesn't matter

[@bigbubba5289]

@@GoatRopeGarage As I look at the tune being shown in the GEN V video tuning series Volume 5, there are timing values greater than 50 on that table around 1600-2600 RPM, very similar to my timing table. Since that truck is supercharged also, apparently there is something fundamental that I am misunderstanding here. I did not create this tune originally but I am trying to improve it because my truck does not run well even after I have adjusted the MAF tune and Speed density tune to as near perfect as I could get it. Since I joined the GoatRope garage level two maybe I can submit my tune there for review? I did the spark timing histogram and I am not getting any knock with my timing the way it is currently? On the virtual torque tables, if I change the maximum table range to 50 from 40, that is where the negative numbers begin to appear that I am talking about, and if I increase the torque by say 10% on the bottom line of any of the tables and all the tables are linked, those numbers on the 50 table begin to go even more negative.

[@yawefuck]

I got to ask, what is the extrapolate and calculating doing for you when you click it? When I compare the tables, I notice the values are doing the same. Just curious the reasoning.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

It is converting the table into coefficients

[@dannydavis7279]

I love the vids but I have the new MV1 2 and I cant pull up some of these tables in ur videos. I've been tuning on the new LT1 and hit a wall

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Which in particular?

[@dannydavis7279]

Thanks first for replying. I'm not at the shop now but I'll hit u back in the morning. I'm dealing with a 2018 1le LT1 and so far have I increased hp&torque but I'm definitely leaving some on the table. My selections on some tables are not the same. I'll get them together and show u

[@dannydavis7279]

So on the fuel tab when I go to general it only shows Flow Rate. Lbs/h.

[@dannydavis7279]

Got it figured out thanks

[@CraigPatersonII]

Hey Kyle, this video helps a lot with the VTT tables. I have bumped them up 10%. What I m having a difficult time understanding is the driver demand and how that relates to the VTT. I don't know what to do with the values in the DD maps. Should these all be bumped up 10% as well?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

That table is a torque based, need to get your VVE dialed in first or else anything you do on the torque stuff is like chasing your own tail

[@CraigPatersonII]

@@GoatRopeGarage Okay good to know, going to have to recap those videos. I watched the Driver demand video and that was helpful however left me curious about the changes you made in your example and how that applies to the Camaro dd table you pulled up. Honestly I am considering the $75 patreon tier after the wideband to get some of these things answered or to at least get me to a point where I can test and tune. Right now with VVE, torque, and MAF calibration I am a little lost. I really want to be able to tune for the mild bolt ons. As I will be installing headers sooner than later. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me on this. I'm sure you're busy.

[@BOONDKS]

Why was your AFR Comm. 13.67

[@mikewirth5624]

How about with nitrous? I noticed my trans is slipping more while running nitrous. Would raising these tables to the torque while on nitrous help?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Hmm, I would probably up the pressure a notch to see if that helped

[@mikewirth5624]

I’ll try that first then. Thanks!

[@charliereeise9539]

you do this even after ignition timing? or do you have to go back and check fueling and timing?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Do it at the very end

[@philistineau]

Will the torque curve adjust in shape if you have already dialed in a cam swap?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

You will have to adjust it to meet your new torque curve with the cam to get the most power from your commanded torque.

[@philistineau]

Goat Rope Garage Thanks! So the torque table is not just an airmass / fuel calc. Does it move around when you adjust those? I’m looking forward to the next video on tuning torque!

[@GoatRopeGarage]

@@philistineau No the torque table controls the power your engine can make, of your don't adjust it appropriately it will actually limit your power so you want it to look like your actual curve plus say 10% so you never cap out on torque. Just don't over do it or else it will make stuff act funny so keep it realistic.

[@mchnhd2]

Couple of quick questions. If you go from NA to boosted, shouldn't you extend the torque tables out to include the boost regions first before making adjustments? Are you still going to do the more advanced torque tuning video at some point? And lastly, are you going to touch on driver demand, too? To my limited knowledge, I believe the driver demand factors into the calculations for desired MAP, Airmass, etc?

[@drewgraff7748]

Upgrayedd06 I was wondering the same exact thing, I have been fighting my lsa Silverado with E38 forever. I just now realized I may need to modify these torque tables. My torque tables only go up to 100 kpa... and airmass only goes up to 800mg. When my truck begins getting into boost it goes above both of these values and it feels like my throttle body just closes off. I think extending out these tables and tuning them will get me going.

[@BravematiK]

Same thing here, when i extend the table to the Airmass i run under boost i find out the ecu had big values, i think we need to extend the resolution then do the tune.

[@joemeyers1016]

Do you do this for all cam shaft angles or just 0?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

It populates for the other angles

[@joemeyers1016]

@@GoatRopeGarage I am on the latest Beta and after I raise my tables 20% then interpolate, extrapolate, and calculate Airmass/map and E85 Airmass/map, exit out and go look at my torque model section only the tables A have been changed. B, C, D are unchanged. That is why I asked. Didn't know if I was doing something wrong if I had to go back and do this for each exhaust angle. Thx

[@tylerhess5474]

Does this really even matter if you are just running a stock truck with maybe a CAI and exhaust? the first few videos are in play I believe but you cant just up the torque of the truck with this without adding some performance components. Just trying to figure out what works best with what I have

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Probably not, honestly

[@tylerhess5474]

@@GoatRopeGarage Thanks. I am still watching all the videos because we have a supercharged mustang with some other upgrades that this tuner could help with. For sure has been a help because I was lost yesterday before these

[@LaUnika383RGV]

Video isn't playing. Stops at 0:25.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

KZbin is having issues, might check back in a bit.

[@LaUnika383RGV]

@@GoatRopeGarage I'll check later today. But all the others after that I can play them. Great videos and tutorials you have made sir. Keep up the great work.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

@@LaUnika383RGV I'll double check myself

[@GoatRopeGarage]

It seems to be working now, but if it freezes up again try changing the resolution. If that doesn't get it playing let me know and I will submit a support ticket for it. Thanks!

[@LaUnika383RGV]

Played it on my laptop. It freezed also but clicked a bit foward an it started playing. Great info sir. Really appreciate your videos. Barely entering the tuning step since I just build the vehicles an have someone else tune them.

[@roberth8123]

The video isn't playing...

[@troyparrish2387]

This video sucks. Does not explain what needs to changes. Youre just babling