God Thwarts What?!

So we dove back into the topic of Psalm 33.
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[@reformedbarber]

Excellent exposition of this Psalm!! God bless you Dr. White!!

[@dauntusgaming]

Beautiful exposition. WLC just refuses to accept this lol

[@cesaresp101]

Is this about wlc's denial of divine simplicity or what is this

[@dauntusgaming]

@@cesaresp101 it’s basically in reference to WLC’s position that God is not in control of subjunctive conditionals in his view. WLC essentially believes that there are things in existence that Jesus did not create, and that’s a bug problem lol Psalm 33 says that God is the one who fashions hearts and is absolutely sovereign over His creation. There is another video on this channel called “The Key to Middle Knowledge.” It really makes this whole topic easy to understand. There are many rabbit holes that can be explored, but the main point is right at the beginning of that video. Highly recommend watching it brother!

[@kaysandee]

Love your teaching/exposition videos!❤ More please.

[@JesusGarcia-Digem]

Excellent content! God bless

[@misterbobby8913]

Fantastic video Thank you 🛡️

[@rybojames4111]

Great video

[@redbearwarrior4859]

This was really good Dr. White!

[@dylanmilks]

Beautiful!

[@terrencebarrett702]

Psalms................the book I skipped for Eclesiastés. And now regret it!

[@johnmark3188]

What manuscript is behind him? That’s pretty cool.

[@terrencebarrett702]

What program is he using? (*edit* nevermind i hate 720p)

[@sashunkjs]

What is it?

[@sashunkjs]

What software is he using?

[@WayneFocus]

This is a case of reading determinism into everything. Dr White always speaks about presuppositions, but cannot see that he himself is guilty of the same.

[@christopheravery9585]

The word translated "fashion" or "forming" in verse 15 does not mean what Dr. White is saying. It simply means God created man and knows him because he is creator. Verse 15 does not support the idea of God being the cause of all man's ideas and actions. This verse like the entire chapter is praise Psalm of God as the supreme creator and ruler. Dr. White is interjecting his determinism in these verses. Look at the usage of this word throughout the Old Testament. It never holds the idea of predetermining or anything to do with forming somethings nature. It's about creation. He is stretching the text beyond what it says. The eye-opening part of this dividing line is when Dr. White makes the claim the God cannot create anything with free will as that would be creating another god. Putting aside the question begging nature of that statement. I would like to know what scripture supports this limitation on God's creative power or what aspect of God's nature this would violate.

[@Vae07]

Ask him for a debate

[@oracleoftroy]

_"The word translated "fashion" or "forming" in verse 15 does not mean what Dr. White is saying. It simply means God created man and knows him because he is creator."_ I think you missed what he was saying. You are pointing out that it is about creation as if White didn't specifically do that multiple times in this clip (e.g. 2:45, 3:27, 10:30, 12:10). If anything, you seem to ignore or reject the obvious implication of God as creator and what happens in the universe God creates and why that is the foundation for the problem of evil in the first place. _"It simply means God created man and knows him because he is creator. Verse 15 does not support the idea of God being the cause of all man's ideas and actions."_ This seems confused. Man can have ideas and actions independent of God creating them? How does that work? Christians historically have recognized God as the first cause of all things and that man as a free creature. You seem to be pushing for the idea that being created isn't an important piece in being able to have ideas and perform actions. Even in Molinism, there are no real human thoughts and deeds until God creates; there are only potential for them. This passage is written about the real ideas and actions of real humans, not potential humans. _"It never holds the idea of predetermining or anything to do with forming somethings nature. It's about creation."_ Creation isn't about forming somethings nature? That seems really odd to me, especially in light of the final chapters of Job. Spell that one out. I guess you are referring to the molinistic idea that humans have this co-eternal existence apart from God in a potential form that God accesses through middle knowledge. Even then, they don't actually exist do actually have ideas and actions until God reifies them, and God is still looking at all possible implementations of one's nature to determine which he wants to instantiate on that system. _"The eye-opening part of this dividing line is when Dr. White makes the claim the God cannot create anything with free will as that would be creating another god."_ You are removing a key word when you falsely claim White said God cannot create a creature with free will. He explicitly said God can and does create creatures with _creaturely_ free will, he can't create creatures with _autonomous_ free will. If you aren't aware of the difference between those two claims that you think you can drop those qualifiers, you have no business critiquing White until you understand the issues being discussed. Maybe you paid as much attention as you did with White's points about creation and just misheard something, but then you really need to take the time to listen to what people you disagree with actually believe instead of just assuming things.

[@WayneFocus]

If Determinism is correct, he fashioned their heart to commit evil so that he would get glory from it. God said that he didn't mean or want people to sacrifice their children to Molech but Determinism says no actually he did want them to sacrifice their children, and to go a step further he made them do it. But even though he made them do it, he is not responsible for evil.

[@Zaloomination]

They also wanted to do it, God didnt force morally neutral creatures to sin, their actions flowed out of their sinful nature.

[@WayneFocus]

@@Zaloomination They wanted to do it because God determined that they would. You cannot get around that fact. According to determinism there is no free will so how could they desire something other than what was determined for them?

[@Zaloomination]

@@WayneFocus man's desire is for evil because of original sin. You cannot get around that fact. God uses the evil in man's heart to accomplish his good purposes.

[@WayneFocus]

@@Zaloomination Where we differ is in what it means when we say that man is affected by original sin. Does that man does not have the capacity to do good or does it mean that men only do evil things? The Gospel message is powerful enough that men can hear it and respond to it, if that's not true why preach it?

[@rolysantos]

@@WayneFocus You are conflating two issues: 1. Yes, man IS so affected by original sin he does NOT have the capacity to do ANY good. He only does what his evil nature WANTS to do, which is evil continually. And if God leaves him there, HE IS responsible for his own sin and will receive God's JUSTICE. 2. But that does not negate the fact that the Gospel message IS powerful enough to "Quicken" (Make Alive) Sinful man's spirit *SO THAT* (For the purpose of) he WILL respond to it. (Colossians 2:13) But this is the WORK OF GOD and not the sinful man! (John 6:29) God's word IS "The power of God unto Salvation." (Romans 1:16) This is GOD "taking away a heart of stone and giving a heart of flesh." (Ezekiel 36) It is GOD making a spiritually dead man alive and it is GOD "enabling" that man to come to Him (John 6:65) It is GOD "granting" repentance (2 Timothy 2:25-26) And "giving" faith to that man. (Philippians 1:29) Ultimately this man has received God's grace and mercy instead of His justice. NOBODY will receive Injustice.

[@willowapodosis4661]

Nice to hear him not whine about the mask mandate..