Gogeta's "FORBIDDEN" Mixup (And Why it Works)

[@RathFGC]

Did you already know that universal fuzzies were still possible in season 3? Can any of your characters set one up? Either way, thanks for letting me ramble some more about random fighting game mechanics. I always enjoy getting to talk about stuff like this!

[@essential67]

Just asking for source. I looked in the box and didnt see it.

[@BIGSexy484]

Yo Rath this still valid?

[@THECOOLKID93]

I see the homie Gogeta, i click

[@itraynell]

Facts bro. Every single time

[@NLookabill94]

Gogeta is a pretty sick character!!! I need to build a team for him cause hes so much fun to play!

[@itraynell]

@@NLookabill94 The team I'm running at the moment is Gogeta C, Beerus B, Baseku A. Its actually a really good team. But Gogeta C assist has horrible tracking so I'm going back to his A assist

[@NLookabill94]

@@itraynell I'm thinking of Gogeta gotenks and trunks tbh. Trunks is on my main team and I think both of those characters would do well to have a beam assist and I like my trunks a lot XD

[@NLookabill94]

@@itraynell not necessarily gonna main Gogeta but I do wanna be a good Gogeta player for sure cause hes super cool. My main team is base Vegeta bardock and trunks

[@Ayyem93]

After getting hit with this from every Gogeta I've played the last three days I'm very happy to see this video

[@kirby5088]

I've been a gogeta main and for the longest time when I did this mix up i just thought my opponent was bad for not blocking it. Never knew it was a fuzzy.

[@ashemabahumat4173]

They better leave this in, the game really needs character specific tech and Gogeta deserves it with how bad he was till the buffs

[@XanMods]

This isn't specific to Gogeta. Teen Gohan, Bardock, Adult Gohan etc... All these can do it. It's just that Gogeta Rekkas are most likely making them block standing so it will happen a lot more and more frequently

[@AgentSephiroth]

Nope, Aksys gonna neuter anything that makes the game fun and continue to keep the base gameplay boring as fuck. If you aren't abusing in game mechanics they dont want you to do it. They want all 50/50s to be cursed homing dashes and for Dragon Rush/staggered buttons to be the only mind games. If this game had any other face than DBZ people wouldn't suck up to this game so much and have a much clearer view of what this game really is. It looks pretty and the presentation is through the roof, but the core gameplay is snooze

[@Xandian]

@@XanMods Cell, Videl, 17, Trunks (to a lesser extent), SSJ Goku (to a lesser extent). This can also work if you time your 5m into assist with Basically if you have a move that forces them to block high, you can get this setup. It's just easier to do if you have a rekka into it since they are thinking about MORE moves they have to block.

[@kytsunee6324]

@@AgentSephiroth You know, all throughout my journey across the world, every single culture I’ve learned of and language I have mastered, I have yet to find the perfect words to indicate just how anybody asked, ever. In the whole history of mankind, it is hard to find an opinion as unneeded as yours.

[@dxthhy]

@@AgentSephiroth well, you were so unbelievably wrong that I’m surprised you haven’t deleted this comment yet

[@DeenoHenddrix]

Knowkami:”BARDOCK BEEEE “

[@arashikage1292]

BAAAAAARRDOCK 🅱️*

[@nxtkoston]

🅱️ardock🅱️

[@ghostfrom3s]

I learned about this like early-mid season 3. LazyMattman taught me mostly everything I know about Gogeta, outside of me labbing things myself.

[@RathFGC]

He's a really good resource for Gogeta :D

[@ahmedelturabi7316]

I have returned here on my quest to winning evo with “low tier” gogeta

[@kdfan35]

Bro u can win EVO with any Character IMO, just have the skill (make sure u have UI on ur team tho lol)

[@Suinset]

I mean Gogeta's not a low tier anymore he's above average now.

[@trippinjohn367]

Gogeta is not low tier

[@rin-senpai7115]

Great video and good explaination of how fuzzies work! I remember trying to explain to a newer player how fuzzies aren't a glitch or bug but direct results or core mechanics of many fighting games, but they were too salty about fuzzies to believe it. Keep up the amazing work!

[@rogermedina9696]

I knew this since season 2 when Wawa did it and also that it was still in the game after the fuzzies were removed but a lot of people didn’t. Great explanation and great video, as always!

[@tatewaki11]

12:09 how to universal fuzzy

[@RAIJIN7]

Gogetas high low mixup from second hit of M recka is also a fafty fafty. The low and the high hit on the 17th frame. Even if u dont have baseku assist

[@Brainboxreview]

Yeah thought this was what he was gonna talk about

[@The_Jbeast]

So couldn’t videl do this since the second hit in her rekka has an overhead in it?

[@scottyyay]

i guess any character with an overhead move could

[@tasorodri]

@@scottyyay as far as i know you need a character with a downwards jL for example I use it with gohan, but have to set up with a 6M, dont know if videl specifically can do it, but its not hard to test

[@mikeyfrance9469]

Yes but she can't air dash

[@justcallmebase1650]

@@mikeyfrance9469 huh? Im pretty sure she can

[@scottyyay]

@@tasorodri dang bruh i didnt even think of that hers is high af

[@rustyAF]

He’s back!!

[@ITzAhhMehMardio]

Any tips on the timing with Roshi 🅱️? Having difficulty timing it properly.

[@RathFGC]

Keep in mind that with Roshi B you'll need to be in or near the corner. I time it like 236L ~> Assist ~> L (land) IAD j.LL really fast

[@trill10playa]

Ok now I know why I'm getting hit when I think I'm blocking. Thanks great vid!

[@prathamvankar2401]

ppl forget that FUZZYS STILL EXIST the fuzzy that was gone is that “universal fuzzy” where a SINGLE character fuzzies the big characters

[@worm9591]

*"b- b- b- b- but Gogeta has no mix"*

[@Parele1l]

Handy tip so this won't hit you: block high whenever you see a characters feet leave the ground (Not Kefla or Vegito). Haven't faced this but it's definitely not half as good as a real fuzzy. This is calling fuzzies forcing opponent in stand block then just using an overhead, but the actually problematic fuzzies that were truly not reactable, were when only a couple frames were added to the startup of a char's j. L, because they did it during the rising part after a jump and didn't need to airdash first. Fuzzies aren't a part of this game anymore, but nonetheless, I liked the vid.

[@NovaZayn]

Time for the mix mix mix!

[@toptie9394]

Great video, nicely explained. Keep up the work!

[@SimpleMilkshake]

We all know what we wanna say here: Nerf Base Goku Jokes aside, if this remains a thing in DBFZ AT LEAST allow me to swap stances while blocking Baseku’s assist to better my odds at reacting to this fuzzy, thanks for uploading this Rath I’ve been getting opened up by this recently and never understood why till now.

[@retromec4757]

Your videos are EXTREMELY underrated

[@anthonymartin5990]

This is insane and I love it!!! Some of yall go ham!!!

[@kazejay7229]

The short time I ran Gogeta with baseku I was doing fuzzys without even realizing it

[@unsolol]

the problem in fighting game videos is, they take alot of your time to watch. but great video wish there was a short version with snappy information instead

[@cobaltghost34]

I find it really cool the Bluegeta and Gogeta have similar mix structure rekkas are such a cool mechanic man

[@KillaBlog]

Uh, why would you block low against a character with an 11f 2L?

[@fraternovaeres]

You're not reacting to an 11 frame move. Many people default to crouch blocking because, generally speaking, getting hit by a low converts to greater damage than getting hit by an overhead, so given the choice in an ambiguous situation many people will crouch block. This fuzzy setup takes advantage of that default tendency.

[@rogermedina9696]

It is not possible to react to a 11f move

[@eriklopez9968]

I was wondering why it was so hard to react to these. I didn't even know that guys was doing a fuzzy.

[@mormagik_gaming]

Gogeta is my second main so this video is awesome 👍

[@TheMehkey]

So the only point in fuzzys is that because of the forced standing state the hitbox, that would be crouching is bigger and thus the overhead is slightly faster? Gotcha, pls remove

[@RathFGC]

Whether people think it's cool or despicable, fuzzy's are the result of important game mechanics like traditional blockstun. I think it would be difficult to remove something like this without making normal gameplay in a lot of fighting games feel super weird. It would kind of be like saying we should balance patch out real life fires because they're unfair and dangerous, without realizing we'd lose the ability to cook our food and stay warm. Some games (including DBFZ and Under Night in Birth) have successfully removed traditional rising fuzzies, but it would be tougher to remove what we show in this video.

[@megalemon3320]

I love these videos dude

[@joelmyers427]

Always the best educational content

[@Orangeboy1345]

Very helpful video! The runback on explaining Fuzzys is appreciated! If I were to use multi hit high block stun assists like K.Buu A it wouldn't work, because each hit of the assist would overwrite the block stun of the previous one, correct? So there wouldn't be any "locking state" one could take advantage of.

[@RathFGC]

That is correct! Other multihit assists have other unique benefits though (besides kid buu A) like locking down opponents even when they get reflected, until all of the hits have finished.

[@Orangeboy1345]

@@RathFGC Thanks!

[@LRomo12]

My man gogeta is to OP that most people haven’t even seen all of his mixups

[@truesayain818]

Definitely hard to block online, possible but feels impossible

[@tempo9735]

Why doesnt frieza at 14:12 hit the crouching bardock if its considered overhead?

[@camlepkowski2708]

it just whiffs, if you press a lot of jL’s as fast as possible they’ll whiff on crouching opponents

[@tempo9735]

@@camlepkowski2708 Oh so the standing animation lock not only makes it hit SOONER but it actually enables it to hit AT ALL. Now I see the power, thank you!

[@MaxNMotion]

I had to pause the moment you said "fuzzy". Don't give me jumpscares like that.

[@TheKakuchu]

A gogeta ran my fade with this strategy. This recommendation was not a coincidence....

[@SonicTwenty6]

As soon as I understood the real reason why this is very strong, I kept say ohhhhhh... ohhhhhh...Ohhhhhhh over and over again because my mind was blown.

[@somea2v]

I'm feeling really proud of myself that I immediately realized something was off about that iaD jL. I couldn't quite place it, but it just looked like it shouldn't be hitting. Now I know why.

[@CatychoVT]

Woah, I was doing this already and I never knew it! XD

[@deathbringer9893]

idk cause i dont think ive ever been hit by this mostly cause gogeta is dead before i can get hit

[@jt8892]

Guess I'll pick up gogeta again then..

[@AidanBlues287]

but why would anyone block low against gogetas slow lows?

[@samsonfgc3472]

Could you fuzzy guard the fuzzy? No but seriously. I'm trying to build a mental flowchart for the counterplay. Could you crouch block until the last second and then switch to stand blocking so that you don't get hit by the overhead? There doesn't seem like much gogeta can do there. Can gogeta instead bait reflects by doing 236LM+assist for that 50/50 then go for the unifuzzy off of 236L+assist once they've been conditioned into standing? If you try to reflect the 236LM you will stand block the assist, and get unifuzzied.

[@bright_and_breezy-n2e]

So if Android 17 does fake overhead rekka plus assist to put them in that state then at that point I just gotta do iad jL. I cee

[@XdefLovesMinecraft]

Maybe I'm just dumb, but why would this open someone up without mixing it up with lows? You're replacing the overhead hit of the rekka with an air attack, so it's replacing a high with a high, no?

[@Dray_Duley]

“press F in the chat if u got hit”

[@h8reset194]

Hey, noob question here, if the opponent is blocking high since the beginning is still a mixup ? for example if you start like JL, 5L, rekka into fuzz, i know this example is not a mixup, it's pressure, but in order to be a setup the oponent need's to be blocking low right ? then we force him to block high and get him with the "trick", right ? i'm missing something ? sorry if the explanation is confuse, but i'm confuse lol hahahahah PS* Keep going with your content Rath, your explanation is really great and the ideias you put are really cool also and creative, i use your guides to warm up and get better reactions on training mode all the time hahaha ( i'm a scruby still xD )

[@rodimusprime8616]

whoa whoa, I HADDD to click upon this to understand the fuzziness of that IAD move gogeta did imma try to keep up with you here, boss. the word, fuzzies aren't new to me. how to do them or how they're done in standing block per say, that is what's hard to understand

[@ABasedTohan]

Agreed fam I was doing this by accident with gogeta but I have to incorporate this now

[@rodimusprime8616]

@@ABasedTohan same I could use some help still to understand the concept

[@ABasedTohan]

@@rodimusprime8616 same I’m hitting the lab today

[@rebelheart4456]

Gogeta's rekkas allowing fuzzies were something that was on my mind a while ago, but then you make a video on it and suddenly it feels like its more important, and I bet if I talk to my buddies about it they'd take it more seriously. KZbin is weird

[@RathFGC]

Sometimes I worry about making videos on topics like this because this is definitely far less important to improving as a player than some broader topics I've covered like dragonrush/reflect/neutral/defense/characters/etc. But it's definitely fun to learn about and could be useful to people playing the characters that can do it. I wouldn't worry too much about this if it isn't something that your team can already do or you feel works for you personally!

[@Themajin972]

Gogeta = The best character. Merci Wawa Senpai 😍

[@YUNG_ISA2012]

Picked up gogeta right before this video dropped! I had some good timing lol

[@SeigneurSaumon]

I never noticed the sun move in this stage

[@sorrydudebros]

i hate that you have to play base goku for this mix so much i can only have one goku per team, does jiren B work for this edit: i doubt jiren can help with it, lol

[@wedoalittlebitoftrolling3054]

I think bardock B can work

[@Orangeboy1345]

Try Roshi, or classic DP assists. Teen Gohan provides 29 fr blockstun, that might do it.

[@hipsterroxas2626]

If you guys wanna know what assists this work with, just recreate the test he did at 3:25

[@KingAfrica4]

Pretty sure tien B works

[@karateman1988]

You disabled input display before actually showing the mix. Is it just 236LL?

[@StardustBlazer]

I would like to guess that a high blockstun assist but has multiple hits like Yamcha A or Videl B wouldn't work for this right?

[@lugaidster]

This is the first time I understood how fuzzys work

[@Momomomsen]

Can this also work with Jirens A assist? Because with Jirens A assist you can switch to crouch if you are very early, but the window where that works is very small and if you don't react fast enough you are forced to stand in the later hits

[@Momomomsen]

nvm

[@TheFlatEarthChannelcom]

Thanks for the tips, vegito has a fuzzy technique too I use all the time people hate when I use. They call me a button masher but I do it intentionally lol. My fuzzy technique uses light as well as the over head

[@Swash_Buckler]

*points to quarantine mustache* This is a fuzzy

[@robo6627]

@RathFGC I have a question? Does gotenks A assist work with gogeta for a fuzzy? Because I run gogeta gotenks and baseku

[@xavierespada98]

Hey Rath can you do a vid on how to read frame data cus i think im doing something wrong lol. Idk if im plus or minus on some moves

[@Polopollo75]

Could the opposite also work with fuzzies: They force you to block low, they get blocked in the "low blocking" but are blocking high, and you hit them with a low? Sorry I hate fuzzies it is really complicated and when you say it is in all FG, I imagine all FG with assists? I dont see how it would happen to a game with normal BS in my head (I only play DBFZ for FGs so I can only suppose)

[@karateman1988]

Two years late but... In other games I believe you would make your opponent block an air normal, then immediately jump with a normal, fuzzying them.

[@nxtkoston]

Will this work with Jiren’s assist? It’s got multiple hits idk if I will get 2H’d trying this....won’t be able to lab it until tomorrow

[@cheems2769]

I’m coming back here after the recent patch, will 21 a assist work with the 30 frame block stun?

[@Potato_n_Tomato]

Wawa fuzzy classic, Gohan 2L + Assist . I do this alot except with Yamcha assist. But this version only works if i condition them to fear backfist after 2m.

[@gamechanger-hi1fo]

With what typ of Controller do you play?

[@anthonybalista7421]

Hey Rath, can you explain how to do the Goku black 50/50? Like how do you make him float after the teleport?

[@RathFGC]

I made a video that should be able to help you out! I hope it can help :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpPCcqR8pbdmbqs

[@Yonaz0809]

So Characters that could set this up without using 6M and have it be a tight blockstring...Are Gogeta...Bardock and Cell? Because the have a special, that is tight on block and also hits overhead, right?

[@danielwappner1035]

Gogeta is actually not doing an overhead for his version! All you really need is the threat of an overhead move. But it has to be guaranteed so your opponent doesnt doubt it. So, rekkas, mostly

[@fraternovaeres]

Vegito can do this same fuzzy. It's more useful for Gogeta because he can credibly threaten a low, unlike Vegito.

[@danielwappner1035]

@@fraternovaeres what do you mean? Any of vegitos lows are faster than iad L

[@fraternovaeres]

@@danielwappner1035 Vegito only has one low and it has 15 frames of start up. Vegito is very easy to fuzzy block, since you're never in a situation where you have to guess high low. You just block high until he's on the ground. That means, people aren't going to attempt to crouch block him most times when he's in IAD range. This fuzzy works because people want to preemptively crouch block to beat things like empty jump low, something Vegito can't threaten with and thus people who know the match up won't preemptively try to counter.

[@danielwappner1035]

@@fraternovaeres actually the mixup is not about empty jump low but rather just low in place of the iad. 15 frames may be slow but it's not reactable, so if vegito is standing and in range you still have to default to crouch block

[@gaigar66]

can dps like teen gohan a assist work?

[@bakura67]

Just wondering I never seen anyone run that team and I just started out about 2 weeks ago . I use gogeta A , roshi B and bgoku A . Should I prioritize roshi assist A ( beam assist) to help me get in on my opponent ?

[@wes_magz9164]

That team sounds amazing

[@BlankMindz1]

This is a very valuable mix sadly unless I play offline in tournys I don't see it because I play on switch and all people do is mash on plus spam dp level 3 ect and have trash block strings

[@TheJackOfFools]

Wawa used Gogeta a lot in the French National Finals, wonder if he used that at all. I wasn't looking for it.

[@RathFGC]

I don't think the assists he used at the time let him do it, but there is a lot of footage from earlier in the season with him using Base Goku A Assist and doing it :)

[@criticalhit07]

What is a fuzzy

[@Tonioka21]

Wow im a gogeta main and i was wondering why when i went for that mix 9 times out of 10 they got mixed now i know why thanks man time to spam this now hahaha

[@josecarventas3098]

This is really helpful If only I were actually good at the game

[@angelj3928]

Man, how fortunate for me that my team is Bardock, Hit, And Ssgeeta. All of the mix I've been not using, it's a travesty I tell ya!

[@frog_9354]

Does it work with vegito B?

[@macacogang6695]

Does this work on videl that has a similar move like gogeta where her second hit is an overhead? What i mean is can she actually do it like gogeta can?

[@itraynell]

Specifically using the rekka, I think so. It depends on how much recovery the first hit if her Rekka has as well as how much blockstun the assist has. I never even touched video so I'm going off of what I've observed from the character.

[@RathFGC]

I'm willing to bet she can, although really short characters might still be too small for her IAD j.L to reach (but if I'm wrong about this then that would be awesome!).

[@SSJ-Luffy]

@@RathFGC her jL doesn't work on everyone unfortunately, on some charas you need a delayed jL, which makes the setup worse. Also it's weird to setup 236L + Base Goku A, but maybe that's just me

[@LeeElement]

Well thanks for this, my roommate is going to hate Gogeta even more now lmao.

[@execution.5764]

See g, I feel like after the air dash, you do jM instead of jL. That’s OD. The jL after air dash is good, I just feel like jM is better.

[@meathir4921]

The whole point of the fuzzy is to make it less reactable by making it faster in start up or keep it a true block string. Did you watch the video?

[@execution.5764]

@@meathir4921 dude, I watched it chill. 😂 I’m just saying man, Gogeta’s jM is a 3 hitter and I just thought that it would better in my opinion.

[@truediamant777]

Frame trapping?

[@majormaxor7592]

Thank you for explaining universal fuzzies and how characters animate when they're in blockstun. I wondered many times how people get hit when they were stand blocking, now I understand that what the game registers isn't always what's shown on screen. This video is fun, interesting and informative. I do have another question, from watching Lotusasakura I noticed many times how he said he didn't let go of the back button but still got hit (with a mid attack), do you have any explanation for that?

[@RathFGC]

I don't have a good explanation for that unfortunately, besides possibly a controller that is malfunctioning occasionally. I remember when I used to play on a fightstick, I'd know it was time to replace my lever when holding down back would flicker between down-+back and just down. But I'm really not sure since I don't know the situations it was happening in for him. Weird stuff happens in these games sometimes, especially online.

[@mylightobscures]

Woah, I had no idea about all this stuff... Not even the specific Gogeta mix up (cuz clearly that's why I watched the video; to see what this was all about), but fuzzies in general.. and all these other intricacies of how the mechanics work in this game Hmm, then again, I've basically been playing vanilla FighterZ by having not played online yet or against a real person lol Mostly cuz I wasn't feeling competent enough in some specific areas (like having not practiced reacting to dragon rushes yet, or knowing how to deal with mixups of all kind) ...and this kinda proves I really have no idea how the game really functions and still have a long way to go before I feel ready But I'm also kinda sick of procrastinating even on a damn game lol As soon as I'm able to go back home, I'll continue practicing the stuff I've been doing and then take my shot at online! ^u^ I look forward to experiencing *all* the frames lmao

[@RathFGC]

I think there's never a wrong time to play with other people! Even if at times we feel like we are not strong enough to expect to win, that's an even better reason to play! We can watch our matches back afterwards and realize exactly what we can improve at. It's oftentimes tough to figure out what we need to work on without failing in real matches first

[@mylightobscures]

waa! Thx for the reply! :O Mhm, I realized that eventually Now it's just up to me to make that first step, I guess The reason I picked up FighterZ in the first place was cuz I had been watching alot of high-level matches somewhere during season 2 and thought "wow, I'd like to be able to challenge people like that and give ppl fun matches" So needless to say, I'm excited to play against other players, even tho it took me a while to get there lol

[@HyperManiacc]

Time to master this 🙌

[@meowress]

Does anyone knows if i can do this with gotenks b assist

[@mikeyfrance9469]

I'm sure you could it's like 42 frames or something

[@gepapa3633]

thanks, this mix up is perfect for my team! I'll definetly try to learn it

[@ItsRubenCharles]

Yoo, just to let you know that you said Goku Black instead of Gogeta in the description :)

[@RathFGC]

Thank you! I just fixed it :)

[@no_nameyouknow]

Fuzzy is such a bad term. Like, I get it. But it is definitely not a term that is easy to understand just by hearing it like safe jump or blockstring. Doesn't help that it means different things in different context.

[@kyleyang4711]

Gogeta mains let us rise up again

[@icwatch]

Gogeta mains RISE up

[@LeDrummerDu88]

So you force the opponent to block high and do an IAD + overhead attack ?... There's no point to do that, i don't get it...

[@HowCouldYouu]

essentially beats fuzzy blocking

[@jaksida300]

Fuzzies take advantage of the fact that your blocking animation might not match the direction you’re actually blocking so attacks that would normally never hit you so fast while crouch blocking do since your hurtbox is a little taller. So it you’re standing, it’s a lot easier and faster to hit you than if you were crouching. The block high keeps them in the standing block animation and when they go to crouch block, the standing animation is still playing so you jump and overhead them.

[@divinegod5330]

I think Vegito somewhat have it too still

[@KingOfCreampies]

The government doesn’t want you to know this

[@manuelhernandizcalero9456]

It’s a nice idea but the fact that gogeta 2L is so slow makes it kinda unusable I think, everyone can just block high and wait till they see the low coming then switch to back. It’s a nice mix paired with Dr and grab etcetc but to me it’s not worth the usage of my high block stun C assist when I can just do the L-M rekka + assist into air dash M, gaining the same “mix” as with the fuzzy. Am I wrong?

[@hoffa9000]

My guy you cannot react to a 11f low.

[@SSJ-Luffy]

Can you react to a 12f fast low? I definitely can't

[@luhloieed6466]

You can’t react

[@dontever]

Nice.

[@darvotte]

teen gohan has this too but shhhhhhh

[@kaimejwasntavailable]

how? I need to know lol

[@NisekoiARG]

wait, doesn't videl also have a rekka that hits oh?

[@kushgod3069]

Yup and 17