Gogeta vs Cabba Shouldn’t Be A Debate

[@Abyss_8228]

Working on like 5 videos, I apologize for not having this video out earlier. Kid Buu Thread: aminoapps.com/c/dragonballz/page/blog/kid-buu-is-the-strongest-majin-buu-anime-manga/X0Vi_guRpYPDwjXm0pjxdoeJgK1GmBLhv

[@kingnothing8482]

Cabba fan boys mad at the facts, People who think GT can’t get with Super characters 95% of the time either didn’t watch GT or watched with bad intentions and didn’t want to analyze anything

[@adamgtrap]

I wasn't aware this was a debate. The universe 6 saiyans are good and have room for growth, but still. I'm also not really deep in the DB community.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@adamgtrap it started out as like a meme that sprouted from the Cell Games Gohan vs Cabba thing from a couple years ago. But people start taking it seriously and want to be different so they actually start arguing Cabba beats Gogeta. It really shouldn’t be a debate

[@oceanwatterr]

Gogeta literally fought Cabba and said “Please Cabba I really need this, you’re kinda really strong”

[@low_tier_one]

@@oceanwatterr you serious?

[@oceanwatterr]

@ no it’s a meme. The whole Cabba v gogeta thing is. I don’t know why this dude even made this video and why the rest of the comments take it seriously.

[@low_tier_one]

@ that line is a meme sure, what’s wrong with him making a video about it? It’s a genuine debate ppl have

[@Abyss_8228]

I made the video BECAUSE so many people actually think it’s a serious debate and that Cabba stomps, it started out as a meme but plenty of people view it as more at this point

[@oceanwatterr]

@ yeah I hadn’t realized it was GT gogeta. DBSB gogeta obviously slams Cabba, GT Gogeta is actually with a video

[@ThatSaiyanMonkey4]

1:34 thank you A SSJ2 (I think) Gohan who was stated to be weaker then Ultimate Gohan. That ssj2 Gohan beat Lavender (The Yellow Wolf from the trio of danger) Good Buu beat Basil from the Trio of Danger and Goku struggled with them.

[@GeteMachine]

Sick of this. Everything in Super feels so unearned and Cabba acts so annoying, as just a meek, lanky, polite Vegeta simp and not a Saiyan. I'll still side with SSJ4 Gogeta. Scaling in Super sucks.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@GeteMachine I agree, GT Goku stomps Cabba form for form, Gogeta isn’t needed

[@Aibadenshi]

1:03 Tbh. To me instead of Goku fully absorb SSG into his base instead absorb the God Ki so Goku can use it at base. Like God Ki is like an additional energy that Goku can tap in for extra till he uses enough to become SSG and then SSB when mixed with SSJ.

[@paperprince2953]

It's crazy how with even all of this, this is still a huge lowball of the actual scaling chain for GT.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@paperprince2953 yeah it’s much bigger, especially considering I didn’t account for Goku’s growth (for the sake of being conservative with the result and simplicity’s sake)

[@paperprince2953]

@Abyss_8228 And then you take into account the Revenge Death Ball which is a multiplier above the Saiyan Saga Genki Dama. In the Movie 8 Pamphlet it's said that four of Goku's companions give him enough energy to increase his Yuki by 1000x, I am not kidding. And that's one component of ki. And the Ryuken (Dragon Fist) which is stated to be tbe strongest technique in history, atleast before the Universal Genki Dama

[@M3rtyville]

yes, but fans cannot accept this because it is not flat out stated or anything. The idea that a non-Super Saiyan who never trained under an angel can rival a Super Saiyan God is flat out dumb. Technically they broke it with Broly and I don't like that. It makes the whole BoG arc and movie pointless as Bills never gets interested in these powerful foes who either have higher potential with lesser forms or flat out surpass his "rivals". Super has a lot of contradictory statements like at the start of U6 when Goku and Vegeta come out of the time chamber, they talk about how they cannot improve anymore training that way. Then Vegeta trains in the time chamber during the Evil Goku arc jumping from being weaker than Base Evil Goku to above Super Saiyan Rose. And somehow Goku who didn't train like Vegeta performed better against Merged Zamas than both Vegeta and Trunks (prior to the Spirit Sword amp). Ironically Goku did more damage than Vegito that arc. It blows my mind. Regarding the Vegito vs Gogeta statement. Vegito is stronger because it is a multiplier of the characters power levels + the rivalty boost. The power of potara fusion has been retconned in Super so the fusion amp in Z and GT is not the same as in Super. Also the guides don't imply Super Saiyan 4 is equal to Super Vegito from Z. It plays with the idea of how strong Vegito could be as we have never seen Vegito fight seriously and at the time we would never do that as there are no potara to fuse to Vegito left. Super gave Potara the same power amp as the Dance which is adding both characters power and increase them by tens of times. And I recall Goku mentioning how Baby Vegeta having the strongest ki he felt before any additional transformation took place to the Strongest Forms Back to Baby, he received 1000 times the amount of Brutz Waves of a normal Oozaru which you can argue gave him a significantly bigger power boost than Goku reveiced when he turned Golden Oozaru. Does that imply that he actually gets stronger? Yes, because he does get another boost later after the double knock out and regains his power back. Goku in Super Saiyan 4 managed to fight an overdosed Golden Great Ape and managed to land a double knockout. So Super Saiyan 4 is even stronger.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@M3rtyville at least Broly is explained and has actual reasoning to be this strong, and legitimately fights the main cast in their God forms. And yeah especially the Goku Black arc it’s horrible, watching ts for the first time it was prolly my favorite arc in Super but god damn it kinda sucks 😭 Yeah I’ve always been of the opinion that Vegito is superior, just for the sake of the video it’s significantly easier arguing they’re relative via this statement since other than that, there’s no DBS statements to work with saying the Dance is relative to Potara so it’s kinda cheeks 😭. I interpret the SSJ4 ~ Super Vegito as being relative amps rather than like Z Vegito somehow being equal to a Goku significantly stronger than End Of Z Goku who should already have surpassed him. I mean yeah you can argue Baby is thousands of times stronger and that it upscales Super Saiyan 4’s amp, I was being extremely conservative in this video saying shit like characters who stomped other characters are relative for the sake of getting to the point and lowballing. Even being generous to Cabba he’s at best not getting past an SSJ2 Kid Goku

[@M3rtyville]

@@Abyss_8228 I mean, it is explained but not a good explaination to justify that power. With the old Broly it was acceptable because of the Anime having the concept of the Legendary Super Saiyan and Broly destroying South Galaxy. While there was nothing like that for New Broly and the concept of Super Saiyan God making it very off putting that someone who beat up just crabs and spiders with no real battle experience can fight God of Destruction tier opponents. That is why its off putting. I know what you try to do. I thought I put my thoughts on it. It is possible that a GT Super Vegito can beat a Super Saiyan 4. We have seen Super's Super Saiyan Gogeta perform better than 2 Super Saiyan Blue's that are part of the fusion. And Goku struggling in SSJG against Base Kefla while SSJBKK Goku flat out lost to Super Saiyan Kefla. It may be questionable if Vegito and Gogeta in the same arc would perform worse than Super Saiyan God to be honest. With all the retcons and such, I wouldn't be surprised. Probably a narrative choice. I don't think the writers even think about stuff like that. Which would explain why Cabba and Vegeta are equal in base like they are the same tier and when they transform. Kinda like only a Super Saiyan can beat a Super Saiyan. Probably not worth thinking about power scaling when it comes to Super.

[@shiori00]

Crazy how super fans dont care about cabba at all and are doing this just to spite gt fans lol. great vid btw

[@Abyss_8228]

@@shiori00 yeah they’re agenda-men (not that I disrespect having an agenda, that’s fine, it’s just when something is incorrect and they still use it knowing that) Thank you homie 🙏

[@kakashi6294]

A lot of people dont know battle of gods has retconed moments

[@SergioRodriguez-bx3ot]

Pure fax! That´s why dragonball fans are said to not read. Base Cabba wouldn´t even beat Fat Buu.

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

People don’t understand how much more powerful Goku got in GT. He was at is peak before he fused.

[@moonshinedrx9716]

***Ssj4 Multiplier explained*** Goku GT Base Baby Vegeta Base = 400x Goku's base Baby Vegeta ssj3 form: 400 x 400 = 160,000x Goku's base Golden Great Ape = 160,000x or higher *Baby's Vegeta Golden great ape = 160,000 x 10,000 (Absorbed 1000x the amount of normal blutzwaves required for a normal great ape (10x))* **(In short 1000 x 10 = 10,000. Then we go to 160,000 x 10,000)** Ssj4 multiplier: 160,000 x 10,000 = 1,600,000,000x base - ***SSG and SSGSS Multiplier Explained*** *Stated by Goku that not even Vegito in BOG could beat Beerus so to get a more accurate measurement of where the ssg multiplier stands* 400 + 100 × 100 = 50,000x base 50,000× Goku's base (Base Vegito) 50,000 × 400 = 20,000,000 Ssj3 Vegito (BOG) 20,000,000× Goku's base SSG Multiplier (Low balled) 20,000,000x base *(Goku then refers to SSG as a whole new level of power implying that it is stronger than the hypothetical ssj3 Vegito. So apply a domination multiplier of 1.6x)* 20,000,000 × 1.6 = 32,000,000 SSG Multiplier 32,000,000x base SSGSS Low balled 20,000,000 × 50 = 1,000,000,000× base SSGSS Multiplier 32,000,000 × 50 = 1,600,000,000× base

[@latrellworthman4538]

cabba is putting the works on ss4 gogeta. super saiyan god goku and beerus also threatened to collapse the entire universe and if you could argue cabba was on par with ssg goku in the universe 6 arc as stated who grew 500x times stronger by unlocking ssj2 by the T.O.P arc and was stronger than hit from universe 6 arc which is ssjb level

[@rubberwoody]

Hit is an outlier and does not work the same way as other characters for power scaling. He's weaker than SSJB but uses technique to overcome that similar to Roshi.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@latrellworthman4538 how is he stronger than Hit? And no he doesn’t really scale to God Goku, I explain my thoughts on that in the video. But yes I agree that the DBS main cast by late Black arc just slaughter GT, I just don’t agree with Cabba scaling to that

[@Abyss_8228]

@@rubberwoody well tbf, Hit isn’t really much weaker than a SSGSS either

[@kakashi6294]

Ssj4 is enough to slam hes faster then time it self so hes essentially freezing cabba then pumiling him with limit breaker cabba has to pray ssj4 and gogeta doesn't have the stamina to keep beating him GT SOLOS

[@That_one_Dokkanplayer]

This is a good video and all, but i wish you included a little more feats and statements. If you remember, Luud was stronger than ssj goku(gt) and goku at base during the time should at least be like uni+ and on top of super saiyan, he should probably be like multiversal, since a multiverse is just a bunch of universes. The multiple universe statement i just made would apply to cabba as well, but would probably do him no good since, goku beat the sigma force, who are all stronger than luud and goku beat them in base. I'd also like to add that Goku(in base, also not trying) was able to shake heaven and hell, like in fusion reborn. Not only that, He completely erased sugoroku space, which is a dimension that's in between universe 7 and can't be reached from the kaioshin realm, and supreme kai can instantly teleport anywhere.

[@kakarot9309]

Saiyan Beyond God is Indeed retconned the next arc after RoF

[@Sonatism]

Goku absorbing the Super Saiyan God (SSJ God) power in his base form doesn’t have to contradict him transforming into SSJ God again the two concepts can coexist. It could be that his base form absorbed the power of SSJ God, making his base form equal to the initial SSJ God strength seen in Battle of Gods When he transforms into SSJ God afterward his base strength is boosted by the SSJ God multiplier. In conclusion **1. Goku’s initial SSJ God power (before base absorption) = base form after absorbing SSJ God. 2. After this, transforming to SSJ God again would equal the initial SSJ God² .**

[@Abyss_8228]

@@Sonatism I’m saying the statements regarding his absorption state that there’s just no need for him to turn SSG as he already has the power in base, implying it’s not going to stack (this being a statement from Toriyama himself in regard to Resurrection of F). It simply doesn’t make sense in context of the creator’s intent, and it arbitrarily breaks the standard narrative for the scaling. The God Ki characters are supposed to be on an entirely new level considerably above everyone else, if a significantly stronger Base Goku post-Black Arc can then be beaten by an Ultimate Gohan that’s trained for like a month, and go hand in hand with Krillin (idt Krillin is SSB level but Base is SOMEHOW represented).

[@low_tier_one]

Allat yap for base DBSB gogeta to one shot 🙏

[@P0w_art]

Ayfbdbsbgtos

[@Zakurai-m1z]

how?

[@orzen_the_orzoorzo7106]

Golden Great Ape isn't a base multiplier, it depends on the bruits waves. Baby was losing to Goku then told Bulma to add more Bruits waves and then he got stronger

[@Abyss_8228]

@@orzen_the_orzoorzo7106 could you give a timestamp for that? That would make SSJ4 an even bigger amp 😭

[@mreccentricitiesbrutallyho6338]

Unrelated but I saw a video this morning about how KZbin is going to take away the view counts and I think it's further best they're clearly already doing something in their background because I'm just getting recommended a ton of small channels Which of course have no views on their video but I'm watching it anyway it's going to be great for everybody

[@user-adrsilva123]

Yo bro! please Do What If The Marvel Universe and Devil May Cry Were in the Same Universe!

[@Nothingherelilbro]

Why is this even a thing cabba was one of the ones who couldnt even go super sayian at ghe start

[@Abyss_8228]

@@Nothingherelilbro it evolved from the old-ish debate of Cabba vs Cell Games Gohan, but the Cabba glazers decided to kick it up a notch this past month or so and start like legitimately trying to argue Cabba beats SSJ4 Gogeta.

[@SansINess53]

Base GT gogeta beats cabba. Legit, cabba has no god ki and god ki in general doesn't give any advantages besides making you wear the pants in the relationship.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@SansINess53 Cabba wouldn’t be wearing the pants even if he did, bro’s a twink 😭

[@SansINess53]

@Abyss_8228 I meant wearing the pants by like not letting the person see and feel your energy.

[@SansINess53]

@Abyss_8228 super saiyan god is strong but honestly, super saiyan 4 is even stronger considering full power super saiyan 4 is at the quadrillions of multipliers.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@SansINess53 ah

[@Abyss_8228]

@@SansINess53 yeah if you wanna go with Super Saiyan 4 scaling to fusion and not Fusion scaling to Super Saiyan 4, it can go WAY higher than I said in the vid

[@daveyellick6685]

All this math is unnecessary. SSJ4 and SSJ Blue were shown to be relative to each other. SSJ Blue Vegeta one shotted Cabba. Therefore SSJ4 Gogeta would be completely destroy Cabba.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@daveyellick6685 eh, it provides more stable evidence than what some people may accept, as even though SDBH is officially licensed and can give us insight to narrative implications, most people probably just see it as “non-canon mean not applicable at all in any way”

[@Leonidas1014]

Thank you!!!! It’s really that simple

[@aetherialbeing4223]

So based off your logic every single user of every form would be at an equal level, Ssj Goku in super would be the exact same power wise as he was on Namek.

[@Thegreatlordofall]

Why would ssj4 narratively at all be near blue?​@@Abyss_8228

[@Ghost-Zilla12]

Heroes is officially licensed but is not a credible source of information. Heroes contradicts Z, GT, and Super it is a "promotional anime" meant for a game.

[@madhav6001]

Lol how is gt connected to super 😂 .Just because gt takes place after super doesn't mean anything. They are different timelines bro. By the exact same logic future gohan should be stronger than beast gohan because he's older. Anyway B.O.G goku>ssj4 gogeta because he has better feats.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@madhav6001 that was never what my argument was for BOG being in GT, I suggest rewatching that segment of the video. The Battle of Gods movie takes place in GT via direct statements from the scriptwriter of the film, no other part of Super is part of it.

[@KEYWESKI]

​@@Abyss_8228did this guy understand GT Akira Toriyama even told us the GT isn't Canon but parts of it will happen and feets do not mean anything is this guy stupid not you but him😂 bro is meet riding super

[@jeeetkr]

​@@Abyss_8228So why gt Goku never used ssjg in gt.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@jeeetkr The original intent of God form I explained in the Cabba section was for other to be simply absorbed into base, with the transformation itself no longer being a necessary step. Which is also why Cabba scaling to it isn’t entirely valid due to the anime continuity (which has the same basis to start) contradicting this consistently and on multiple occasions.

[@mrheebee_jeebees2432]

​@@Abyss_8228could argue the entirety of super is still in GTs timeline since there was an official timeline licenced by shuishea and TOEI at a 2017 art exhibit featuring all of super happening in GTs timeline

[@Ghost-Zilla12]

SS4 Gogeta stomps Cabba, and it's nowhere near close. EoZ Goku scales higher than Dbs Goku since Dbs eventually transitions into the original EoZ. Here is a quote from Toyotarou that supports this “We are preparing the ground to direct Dragon Ball Super into the original Dragon Ball Z ending”. GT Goku scales higher than EoZ Goku since he trained with Uub for 5 years. GT Goku also destroyed Sugoroku Space, which is implied to be infinite in size, whereas UI Sign Goku only shook something that was infinite in size. SS4 Gogeta is nowhere near needed to beat Cabba. GT Trunks and Goten are probably more than enough to destroy Cabba.

[@mrheebee_jeebees2432]

Sugoroku space is even more impressive than that since it stated in a guidebook that it transcends time and space, meaning itd at the very least be a 5D construct and GT goku in base blew it to smithereens

[@ColdFishPiss]

" this debate is irrelevant" "Let's get into it" like wtf. No. Make a better video.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@ColdFishPiss I never said this debate is irrelevant, just that it shouldn’t have been a debate in the first place and that it’s stupid, and as such I gave my point of view on why it is as I claimed.

[@DruidGoblin]

okay so in summary "I dOn'T cArE cReAtOr SaiD I aM tHe MaIn ChArAcTeR AnD mY oPiNiOn MatTeRs MoRe whuaaaaaaaa" Goku got a boost absorbed the boost got stronger then learned a transformation, your hate boner for Cabba should not be a factor in this conversation

[@Abyss_8228]

@@DruidGoblin not what I was saying at all, just that the series directly contradicts the statements made during that arc and the creator’s own statement is made in a way that can’t apply to the rest of the series Good job appealing to motive after strawmanning my argument

[@low_tier_one]

@@DruidGoblin smartest dbs fan

[@Zakurai-m1z]

Dude GT gogeta would scale in all scenarios above cabba. it isnt even close. especially considering that there are literally no exceptional feats that DBS goku did that would surpass GT. macrocosm feat by DBS : done by buuhan in Z Anime continuity Goku exitisting in a realm without time like in zamasu arc : done by kabito kai in GT and done in meta cooler movie that i canon to GT as a toei continuity. Goku GT even oneshotted the subspace realm which states in guides to have no concept of space or time. baby vegeta alone affected whole instant transmission realm that works i no time by the scans and logic. tbh GT goku in just beginning of black star saga surpassed his ssj forms multiple times. in baby vegeta saga alone he gets billions of time stronger. GT goku in base would be a threat to ssj2 cabba if we scale GT properly my dude. GT gogeta ssj4 on other hand would wipe floor with all universe 6 saiyans ngl.

[@Leaf4825]

He was never acting like the main character seems like you're projecting

[@beegpappa7900]

Bros talking about what the creator said when the creator never said 4 was powerless against blue. GT Goku was put at his peak and both his base and ss4 got boosted after that to fight an overcharged ape.

[@chaoyuli9583]

200TH Sub

[@Abyss_8228]

@@chaoyuli9583 thank you homie, always appreciated 🙏

[@lordzcy6777]

bro in the first 2 mins you already displayed a lack of reading comprehension when talking about Goku absorbing Super Saiyan God's power into his base obviously in the Z movies the implication is supposed to be that in his base he already has god ki therefore he doesn't need Super Saiyan God anymore and then when you go Super Saiyan it's super saiyan blue because of the god ki (side note in the original Battle of Gods movie when he absorbs the power into his base he goes Super Saiyan on top of that anyway but he still retains the strength and in the anime he's even stronger so using the very evidence you provided to prove your own Point actually disproves what you're saying LOL)

[@Abyss_8228]

@@lordzcy6777 I’m fine with the boost to base being a temporary thing, but it being something that has effects on the long term simply doesn’t make sense and devolve the story to an even weaker level (to be fair the Goku Black arc does that even worse). And no I don’t see why anime Goku from the same timeframe as Battle of Gods would be stronger than the movie variant, nor does the evidence like debunk my own claim, even if we’re to like steelman your argument that it’s retaining the power yada yada, this would be applying to the movie as well, and in turn GT Goku.

[@darius8214]

Super Continuity >>>>>>Universe>>>>>>>GT Continuity Not a SINGLE Universal feat in GT, while Super starts at Base Line Universal. Stop crying about GT, it was a joke so much so that it made ALL of DBZ a joke to the powerscaling community before Super.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@darius8214 there are universal feats in GT’s timeline. And Cabba doesn’t scale to high or even mid end Super anyways lmao I’m not “crying about GT”, I’m giving my take on why the popular consensus of Cabba winning, which was originally a joke but evolved further, is just a bad take.

[@trehundobeatz6359]

Base goku shook the entire afterlife (which is a universal sized body) in BASE form Base goku casually destroyed a dimension. Now if you wanna sit here and say “it was already collapsing” then you could say that it would take full power from BASE goku to destroy it since he casually did it while it was crumbling. Shockwaves from baby’s revenge death ball traveled dimensions strong enough to send goku into a dimension supreme kai couldnt even reach. Ss4 scales higher than super baby 2 being able to manhandle him easily until he turn into an oozaru. So dimensionsal travel shockwaves cant hurt goku. Omega shenron was going to wither away the universe just by existing and gogeta was flicking him around. You could easily scale him to universal since king vegeta blew up three planets just by waving his hand and omega is centuries beyond him. The gt downplay is hysterical as the dbs fans dont know how to properly scale. The legit only characters in dbs that ss4 goku cant beat is hit, and jiren, as they have hax’s that transcended time or manipulate time.

[@Abyss_8228]

@@trehundobeatz6359 to add onto Omega’s feat, his concentrated orb that Gogeta kicked away should just have that level of AP as it was the concentrated force of all the decay. Alongside this, Buuhan’s universe collapse feat applies to GT, but does not apply to Super as Super goes by Kai’s timeline and not the original Z’s.

[@trehundobeatz6359]

@@Abyss_8228 yupp

[@GMP1isReal]

@@trehundobeatz6359 don't forget that the revenge death ball was the hakai before the hakai since baby said it would destroy Goku to the point he couldn't even reach the afterlife. I have to disagree on GT not being able to get Hit's hax because Hit's hax stop working if you're at a relative or greater power level than he his, so if someone from GT can reach his level, they're good like Super Goku was.

[@Golghrom]

Cabba just grabs the fanfic that GT is and rips it apart, or burn it, or whatever he wants tbh 😂.