What NO ONE is Telling You About Cabba Vs Gogeta SSJ4 (The Truth)

Discover the truth about Cabba vs Gogeta SSJ4 in this video. Find out what no one is telling you about this epic battle! Tune in now for all the details.
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[@spritvio639]

Guys, we have an official answer. In Sparking Zero SSJ4 Gogeta is at 10 Destruction Points while SSJ2 Cabba is at 7. Debate over.

[@UIDarkBlueShadow]

that actually makes sense , that is something believable

[@draconomega]

I don't wanna be that guy, but I don't think Sparking Zero is balancing system is the best power scaler. Otherwise we would be saying that 17 Mr Satans could evenly match both Cabba and Gogeta, and we all know it would only take one to no diff 🗿

[@KopperNeoman]

@@draconomega Hey, using Mr. Satan's true power is cheating, even Akira Toryiama would need to call Jesus to avoid being no-diffed.

[@ochitokes]

​@@draconomegastop overthinking. Character to character not team to team

[@draconomega]

@@ochitokes Broly Z is still left above both Goku GT AND Super, or Gotenks Ss3 being "stronger" than SsG Goku. Which we all know is bs. Again, a game's balancing system is really not the best way to judge character's strenght

[@cheesefinder111]

I don't even care about the meme, what gets me is that there are some people who legitimately believe Cabba would win.

[@Bardocks_Fig_Collection]

Real😭

[@hamadbuhaleeba5606]

Same sometimes I wonder if these people actually smoke kerosine instead of weed that would explain a lot

[@HadesGamesolosgowverseandkrato]

Cabba only scales to base form vegeta The god form is a serperate form not base, goku literally uses the god form when fighting caufifa

[@cheesefinder111]

@@HadesGamesolosgowverseandkrato Exactly. Sad to say but most DBS scalers think that any character after resurrection F is multiversal, and that Goku and Vegeta in base are millions of times stronger than battle of gods when that's literally contradicted.

[@HadesGamesolosgowverseandkrato]

The super anime retconed the base form equaling god form As the rof arc had no saiyan beyond god which was god ki in base form something the movie had but not the arc

[@walkernonya5887]

The funniest part of this debate is that it led to a horde of SSJ4 Gogeta players dominating Sparking Zero’s online. And many of the people I’ve seen complaining about the situation are the same people who drove this meme into the ground.

[@samuelbrown1283]

That is just dedication that I can respect.

[@ko6171]

W agenda pushing tbh

[@XavierrRollins]

Being somebody on a game doesn’t prove he could beat Cabba though😭

[@camanesis6003]

I dont think this debate led to it its a dragon ball game people are just going to pick fusion because they're popular

[@jordanglasper1064]

Lol

[@Akiraspin]

I don't even like GT but I can't believe there are actually people that think Cabba wins this. Cabba was so fodder that Base Vegeta knew Cabba had no chance of winning and literally spent his entire match teaching Cabba to go Super Saiyan because Vegeta's pride wouldn't allow him to bodybag a fellow Saiyan that was so ass. Bro was literally *getting secondhand embarrassment* from Cabba's stats so bad that he *NEEDED* to throw the fight a bit so that his species wouldn't look like *BUNS* to the other universe.

[@dreemurrprince]

base vegeta literally says in his own thoughts he and cabba are equals in pure power. Why would he be lying in his own thoughts? Sure, cabba wouldn’t beat vegeta in a base v base fight, but that’s mostly because vegeta is a better fighter. Regardless of how ridiculous it is, there’s no logical reason the statement would be made in vegeta’s head if it wasn’t true.

[@ItsB1998]

​@@dreemurrprinceVegeta eating all of Cabba's attacks as a SSJ shows that he just meant Cabba was equal with his suppressed base strength

[@dreemurrprince]

@@ItsB1998 cabba was enraged and wild, vegeta had full mastery over super saiyan. Comparing the two sides of that fight is not logical in pure power.

[@KopperNeoman]

@@dreemurrprince He really just wanted to help Universe 6 unlock Super Saiyan, given how long he'd spent under Frieza's heel with it as his only hope.

[@dreemurrprince]

@@KopperNeoman that.. wasn’t a factor by the point of him saying that. Vegeta thought cabba must be a super saiyan up until he mentions it, and he thinks that sentence BEFORE that exchange of dialogue. Therefore that doesn’t apply. Vegeta only learns of cabba’s inability to transform AFTER he admits they’re equals, so that argument is invalid to begin with.

[@Bardocks_Fig_Collection]

Finally someone who doesn't down scale gt so bad that it doesn't even make him low uni

[@evilartnboy]

He pulled a 4 million times multiplier out of his ass.

[@moodzi2429]

@@evilartnboydon’t be rude my guy.

[@humanman9920]

​@@evilartnboyYeah but rest is horrendously downplayed for GT especially sugoroku space destruction feat .

[@ponchosavage5207]

this video is so ass and biased it’s insane gt literally has no feats he’s talking ab hypotheticals and not pointing out gt insane flaws and inconsistencies like he did super

[@humanman9920]

​@@ponchosavage5207Brother literally horrendously downplayed GT in here on almost everything and this bro is still mad . GT doesn't have inconsistencies like the god form absorption only for it to be never used again for bringing back regular ssj forms as well as the god form itself

[@InvisibleMan-tb8ke]

At first it was funny until people started actually believing it was true. The GT hate was honestly annoying af.

[@samuelbrown1283]

They hated it so much that they made sure to convince everyone else that Ssj4 Gogeta was waaay weaker than Cabba while ignoring any evidence showing the opposite

[@InvisibleMan-tb8ke]

@samuelbrown1283 Fr, and even i went long with it at first because I didn't know much about GTs scaling, but after looking into the downplay, it was insane. Honestly, I don't even like GT that much myself, but I never understood the massive hate boner some people have for it.

[@Web720]

The problem with hate boners is that it's irrational. So it makes perfect rational sense as to why GT hate boners picked Cabba over Gogeta, it's because they are being irrational.

[@detective2221]

@@Web720 Yeah, I don't like Gogeta so I pick Cabba.

[@SWyrick366]

This makes me hope that GT is canon even more, just to see all the haters cry.

[@dionysisnance4204]

I feel like cabba vs ssj4 gogeta debt came out of nowhere.

[@danteshollowedgrounds]

Yes of course just like some other dumb memes just to get attention etc.

[@alaminior]

I swear. From where?

[@bottanabambagina]

it evolved out of that whole ssj2 gohan vs cabba debate. People joked about ssj4 gogeta and it became a thing

[@FlamingoFan_60]

It did

[@number4493]

r/Ningen

[@jahmoymignott4081]

We don't need Gogeta we Only need Gt Goku Base or Ssj1 if you want to High Ball Cabba Good Vid

[@humanman9920]

Yep , him being ssjg level is questionable in the first place , and either way he isn't getting past Base Goku sugoroku space destruction feat in Baby arc like rest of dbs.

[@Lineproof]

@@humanman9920 no, he is godku level or above. Cabba = base vegeta = base goku>>> BOG base goku post absorb = BOG ssjg goku pre absorb

[@Lineproof]

@@humanman9920 not super goku moving in literally nothing (irrelevant speed feat, as Zeno erased even space itself.), almost destroying the entire universe 7, shaking a realm made of literally nothing (making basically every competitor have irrelevant speed lol, because it’s stated to have no time or space) and Gogeta and broly shattering space and going into a different plain from a PUNCH. Nice try dude LOL.

[@humanman9920]

​​@@LineproofGod absorption was retconned the moment regular ssj forms came back and were stronger than base cuz ssjb itself is stated the ssj form on god absorbed base so no Cabba isn't ssjg level , and just moving doesn't mean anything GT Goku has that and way more in terms of power with his AP actually scaling above time and space as well as life and death . Get back when anything in dbs can even get to sugoroku space bro really tried to talk about time and space as impressive over here let alone being so desperate with " dbs Goku moved in it 😭 " better luck next time 🍷🗿

[@ghostkid252]

​@@Lineproof I've always assumed the god ki absorption thing from BOG was temporary. Something akin to the few times we've seen him/other characters absorb things like the spirit bomb as a power boost. I can say with confidence though that Vegeta was toying with Cabba in the U6 tournament ☠️ look no further than the finishing blow Cabba tried to land on Vegeta just for him to tank it head on with a smile before blowing that boy back HARD ☠️

[@PipeDreamBlvd]

A lot of people down play GT simply because they don’t like it but GT Goku is literally one of the strongest versions of the character

[@LegendofNelda]

Feats were weak

[@Am_Cookie2436]

Excuse me? Gt is connected to the movies, meaning it's the same goku who fought Janemba and wrecked all of hell at once. Which is a universe+ feat. Most likely even multiversal all at SSJ3, SSJ4 goku alone completely blows that out of the water. He also has irrelevant speed since him and Metal Cooler were able to fight in the ​dimension that's used for instant transmission in SSJ1 @LegendofNelda

[@LegendofNelda]

@@Am_Cookie2436 multiversal yet struggled to lift a building and destroy a planet....

[@Coonan3272]

@@LegendofNeldaand Goku was knocked out by a laser and hurt by a bullet, wanna go band for band???

[@LegendofNelda]

@@Coonan3272 That proves powerscaling and calc stacking is nonsense

[@hxppythxughts7149]

You forgot to mention that GT Goku in base just from powering up (not transforming) was able to shock the entire realms of hell and afterlife... something that SSJ3 Goku did in fusion reborn movie but in base and just by powering up a little, not even a long duration screaming.

[@longlivetheblackmamba2-8-24]

Or that baby’s revenge death ball was strong enough to effect kibito kai in instantaneous moment. Or how old kai said ssj4 was only fighting baby with less than a smidgen of his power before oozaru

[@NatSnack]

I mean Godku almost destroyed the entire universe 7 by punching Beerus. Destroying everything> shaking part of everything. That said I still don't think Cabba is at Godku level let alone ssj4 Gogeta.

[@KopperNeoman]

@@NatSnack Yeah, he did that by CLASHING with BEERUS, wheras base GT was able to shake Universe 7 just by powering up. Beerus contributed to SSG's feat, whereas base GT did it on his own.

[@blackops7809]

​@@KopperNeomangt Goku only shook heaven, Kai planet, and hell. Everything else is correct

[@albertiscoolcooldude]

that was super goku

[@Web720]

DB fans when its SSJ2 Teen Gohan vs Base Cabba: picks SSJ2 Teen Gohan. DB fans when its SSJ4 Gogeta vs Base Cabba: picks Base Cabba. Shaking my fucking head 🤦🏾‍♂️ One of the problems with hate boners is that its irrational.

[@anderswallin3883]

I don't know where this came from, but there is no chance in hell that Cabba can beat Ssj4 Gogeta.

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

God Ki Universal power, God Ki absorbed into Base 🤣🤣🤣 just because you don't like the feats doesn't mean they don't exist, Cabba finger flicks SSJ4 Gogeta you can cry about it all you want "it was fine till people took it seriously" it was ALWAYS serious 😂😂😂 you're just late to the party too bust twerking out to the Dragon Ball GT theme song "step into the grand tour"

[@K_The_creator]

Crazy how I thought this was funny until almost everyone I knew decided to drag the joke and take it seriously

[@humanman9920]

Ikr i was just having fun with it and then saw the " uhm akshually unironically true 🤓 " with these tryhard doesn't watch the show except BoG explanations all over the internet .

[@KopperNeoman]

@@humanman9920 yeah, it's like scaling Hercule up to Zeno levels - it's fun, but some idiot's gonna do it unironically.

[@detective2221]

@@KopperNeoman Hercule is Zeno level because 2+2=4, which means Hercule+Hercule=Zeno.

[@DADRB0B55]

Before the memes people were already trying to say base RoF Goku solos GT, or SSG scales above fusion & other dumb shit with no feats to back up it.

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

​​@@DADRB0B55 God Ki Universal power, God Ki absorbed into Base 🤣🤣🤣 just because you don't like the feats doesn't mean they don't exist, Cabba finger flicks SSJ4 Gogeta you can cry about it all you want "it was fine till people took it seriously" it was ALWAYS serious 😂😂😂 you're just late to the party too busy twerking out to the Dragon Ball GT theme song "step into the grand tour"

[@DandreB-sl8df]

Wife: "Cabba scales God Goku" Husband: "I want a divorce" XD

[@ihopespaceisedible330]

"stand proud Logegeta you were strong"- world breaker cabba

[@sharks4fun40]

Doesn’t exist

[@humanman9920]

Bruh watch the show it wasn't him it was world breaker ssj kaioken magawd 4 rage beast times 69 Cabba

[@sharks4fun40]

@@humanman9920 should I even ask wth that is and what show..l

[@Thatguyuknow-fb6re]

-ssj4 limit breaker gogeta join the chat-

[@humanman9920]

​@@sharks4fun40 No u just wouldn't understand only the super secret society of elite dragon ball fans who don't watch the show can know about this

[@Suii2008]

People also forget that base goku in gt kid form also manage to shook the afterlife like the movies when he fought Cell and Freiza in the super 17 arc

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

SSJ2 Goku did that in Fusion Reborn and caused way more destruction.

[@fg009letyrds8]

​@@MajinUltraEgo-pvso you think SS3 doing the same thing as BASE means the Base feat is bad? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Бесик-м1з]

The db fans who hate on GT are so funny. I would love to see their reaction when they find out that Daizenshu, guidebook that they use to scale Goku from DBS to Outerversal, it's the same guidebook that includes GT in the chronology as a continuation of Z

[@bananabanana484]

“Ssj god Goku is like 60% of Beerus’ strength” “So super Saiyan blue, which is 50 times stronger, would obliterate him right?” “Actually, I meant 60% of his not serious strength. His serious strength is like, 100 times stronger”

[@discount_doom_slayer117]

People really be forgetting that the fusions don't let you bring anything you had on you into it so Gogeta had to make that party popper out of nothing

[@dcellamare55]

This video is perfection that not even super perfect cell can match. Can you put out more power scaling comparison videos like this? Really enjoyed this and thanks to MoodZi now I can get my friends to stop talking crazy about SSJ4 Gogeta's DP points in Sparking Zero. Even the devs know that man is cracked out in power scaling feats.

[@stewriley2899]

As a fan since the late 90's/early 2000's, and a fan of Super and GT hater .... ssj4 Gogeta is BEYOND Cabba

[@TheCoolerBrother]

Finally a Gt hater who’s honest with themselves

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

​@@TheCoolerBrother I like GT and Cabba flicks SSJ4 Gogeta all the way over to Dragon Ball Evolution.

[@kokkonutt]

In other words: the DragonBall community truly believes Cabba wins because Vegeta can't stop glazing his race

[@Okage05]

To touch on the omega shenron being universal level. King kai said 2nd form Frieza has the power to destroy the universe therefor piccolo (nail fused) solos aswell

[@moodzi1322]

Letssss go

[@humanman9920]

3:50 No actually , Vegeta's line doesn't contradict the fact that Cabba isn't ssjg level . It's said that they can use god power in base not that they're always doing it . Ssjb itself is stated ssj on top of god absorbed base in RoF guide , so the moment ssj shows up again after that in the series while being stronger than base , it confirms they're not using god ki in base , because god ki in ssj is literally what makes it blue which is not weaker than any yellow ssjs . This theory has been wild in the first place like what are people even saying there's two different coloured versions of the same form which is ssj on god absorbed base ? The yellow colour one is way weaker and then ssj2 and ssj3 on god absorbed base are weaker than ssj on god absorbed base which is blue coloured ? What is this ? Where is this nonsense actually stated to at least be believed even though its stupid ? They clearly stopped using god ki in base it's that simple . Even final form Frieza ToP who fights Base Cabba and earlier was relative to Base Goku is threatening Toppo with what he states right then is a planetary attack . Cabba isn't even stronger than all of Z for that , before talking about dbs as a whole still not matching sugoroku space scale which is established infinite " between space and time " as well as life and death to be matching Base Goku who destroyed it. In GT Cabba specifically literally loses to Pan because fusion reborn is canon to GT , which makes Rildo who's established to be an opponent with the largest ki upto that point , stronger than Janemba who was stronger than ssj3 Goku who shook afterlife , before that Rildo gets beat up and thrown away by Pan when he tried to look cool thinking he could just tank the attacks . 12:32 That is a ridiculously stronger version used by Golden ozaru baby , he already tanked a bigger version from Super baby 2 than the first showing which had these statements of existence erasure threat as well as the feat of going to subspace which is stated to not have the concept of space and time and warp Goku to sugoroku space which is above life and death as well . Would like to make clear the extent of some of the lowballs by saying they're not actual lowballs horrendous downplays . Like Rildo being stated stronger than Buu applies to whichever character is Buu , the assumption that Goku didn't mean the characater as a collective but also didn't mention the specific version and we should assume its fat buu is illogical , before even mentioning the line " never thought i'd come across a ki this large " right before it also separately confirms Buu is not that guy anymore in any capacity . Let alone " between time and space " infinite with " wander forever " being destroyed by Base Goku , is not relative to Super Buu but one of the strongest feats outside heroes. No realms in db universe sphere are simply between space and time , let alone transcending life and death at the same time as well , HTC is established just an earth sized slowed time dimension . Being simply above time and space or/and binary opposition like life and death at the same time is given the the term outerversal in scaling not just uni , so GT characters since that feat are two entire layers into this scaling . Take that into account with Baby's RDB which i've mentioned above and u have the primary highest scaling feats of GT and dragon ball so far outside heroes. Then there are lower scaling but still ridiculous for being so low-no effort ones . Like Omega shenron's infamous but ironically misremembered universal feat , with many people literally forgetting where that even comes from thinking it was stated about the negative karma ball . The statement comes from when most of the fighting is finished and he decides to end the universe instead of just earth , k*lling with the negative energy emitting from his existence , the black aura ability coming from the weakest dragon Haze shenron , not like the way stronger ones he actually used against characters , let alone negative karma ball which has negative energy of all seven dragon balls and his go to whenever he's royally pissed or backed into a corner , which he uses once again after these statements against change state Goku holding the spirit bomb . Also as u mentioned needing universal spirit bomb to end him should already be alarming considering how strong even planetary spirit bomb is , the scaling word we use for it is supposed to describe the amount of spirit energy it has collected from the cosmology not the level it matches compared to regular ki .

[@monstermango5032]

I ain’t reading allat

[@TramiNguyen-oi3kp]

Gogeta is 30 years old and Cabba is 15 years old!

[@moodzi1322]

I need an adult?

[@samuelbrown1283]

​@@moodzi1322 Gogeta: we are an adult

[@remicon73]

I remember first seeing the meme and thought that it was pointing out how Super's scaling was so insane that you could actually make this argument, then I quickly realized that no, it's just more GT hate.

[@ctv186]

The most common feat based scaling arguments I see are Omega Shenron was simply going to rot the universe 7 macrocosm over time, not destroy it completely, and Cabba scales to obliterating the whole thing in base. But these arguments may forget base GT Goku has that ~5D attack potency when he one shot that infinite dimension between dimensions in the Baby saga.

[@moodzi1322]

That may be true, but isn’t that just downplaying? Plus omega shenron isn’t a metric to scale Gogeta super saiayn 4. I mentioned it in the video that Gogeta could have beaten him with a single finger. Adding to the fact that Goku already displayed universal feats, it would suggest that saying “omega shenron is universal” is disgustingly downplaying omega. That’s like me saying kid buu is planetary because I only saw him destroying planets.

[@ctv186]

@@moodzi1322 Yeah, the Omega Shenron is definitely a downplay, and that argument on its own also doesn't mention Omega is causing the macrocosm to decay as a passive effect rather than a dedicated effort to create that effect, so that doesn't actually show an upper limit to Omega's or Gogeta's power. So I'm on the side of Gogeta easily takes this one.

[@humanman9920]

​@@ctv186BoG feat was overtime as well with 3 long punch and beam clashes being capable of that as a collective with Beerus contributing equal power in each , and no Omega was stated capable of destroying everything in existence not just rot , while that was the weakest method attack possible using the ability from the weakest dragon , not one of the stronger dragon abilities that he actually used on characters let alone negative karma ball which has negative energy of all seven dragonballs and is his go to whenever he's royally pissed or backed into a corner , soloing the universe just with the energy emitting from his existence without having to lift a finger .

[@fg009letyrds8]

Also Omega Shenron main purpose is to *CORRUPT* not destroy anyway, he only wants to destroy after he got cornered by Gogeta (who then used converted Negative Karma Ball to clean the universe of Negative Corruption)

[@GamingxKnight]

Honestly, this is the best explanation of this meme and refuting the meme that I've heard. Well made.

[@zon3236]

I’m glad a Dragon ball KZbinr has the Balls to call out the blatant inconsistencies with Dragon ball super scaling and writing as a whole, their busy overhyping these forms that have God ki but don’t realize that it’s basically the most pointless thing ever since in several occasions they get beat by Non god ki users (Jiren and Hit, and even Broly lmao.) ontop of having some of the most contradictory feats ever, one moment God Goku and beerus clash fist and threaten the universe, next Goku in MUI is fighting Jiren and they can barely break a stage smaller than a city, it’s a mess and why I don’t take Super debates serious.

[@Zakjuh]

yeah, they made god ki into a joke. it was dumb. android 17 the park ranger taking on ssb goku still annoys me

[@smol-shogun2005]

You mean the stage that a god created? You mean the fight where Goku shook the whole world of LIMITLESS?!! Do I need to pull out the definition of limitless for your non-existent brain?

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

​@@ZakjuhThe problem is you guys literally don't know how to scale, the fact that you think that Goku was trying to completely fodderize 17 let's me know you didn't understand the point of the fight.

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

"Jiren, Hit, Broly beat God Ki" ok, now imagine all those people you named with God Ki then tell me if it's still pointless 😂 "can't destroy a stage smaller than a city" yeh that's called God Ki, the same thing you call "useless" is the reason why their Ki control is so perfect, SSG Goku had no Ki control when he first unlocked the form 🤣 that's why those Shockwaves happened. Get educated.

[@zon3236]

@@smol-shogun2005so what if a god created it? A god created Universe 7 didn’t they? Yet it was still able to be shook with just the combined power of god Goku and beerus, fast foward in the TOP they are far above those levels of power, I guess you must have non existent eyes or comprehension skills.

[@BroodPayload50jam]

these debate's are rediculus because people have too much free time and like to spoil the fun for others. but it is nice to see one making a video like this and use in-anime statements to clear the area so it can be put to a stop for god's sake.

[@oceanocean574]

maybe the real ssj4 gogeta vs cabba was the friends we made along the way

[@chello6974]

He can’t beat goku tho

[@GBLunknown]

bro just cooked the gt haters letsgo

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

He literally pulled the 4,000 times multiplier out of his butt 😂 he didn't cook anything, he told you what you wanted to hear and you got excited over misinformation 🤣

[@GBLunknown]

@@MajinUltraEgo-pv thanks for showing my comment is true

[@Kenchi33]

​@@MajinUltraEgo-pv Oooof

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

@@GBLunknown thanks for showing how delusional you are.

[@saudbintalib5701]

Bro dropped another banger!

[@aloudiara8675]

Bro never misses

[@TheCoolerBrother]

I’m extremely grateful you made this video. You said everything I’ve been saying for the past few years. The thing that gets me is that most of the people who downplay Gt are the people who never even watched it. More specifically the uncultured younger kids. When I’m scrolling through a comment section and I see someone say “DBS is simply higher than GT due to its insane power scaling” I automatically know that you are a 10 year old kid with no armpit hair who never watched Gt in the first place

[@smol-shogun2005]

Dude are you restarded or something?Super IS higher than GT in every way! God Goku is sweeping against anyone from GT, it only takes an IQ of 5 to know that

[@jonathanbradley6709]

It's pretty much like Vegeta said in DBZ Abridged of Team 4 Star, " POWER LEVELS ARE BULL S***! "

[@brianwallace2038]

Ss4 is not a 4 million times multiplier; that's insane

[@JCMustang]

x4,000 but insane people are insane. SS1 is x50, SS2 x2 that, SS3 x4 that... SS4 x10 that... and that is the MAX multiplier... in Super we have things like Golden Frieza transformation to be x2,000,000 Final Form but wathever... how? Base Goku = Final Form... SSG is about x40,000 multiplier and SSB is x50 that... so Golden is that fkd up number. Super is on crack and GT is very, very linear. So the beloved OG SS4 it is literally a condensed Ozaru form with a body capable of martial arts, stated by Old Kai and JAP official guide books. Nowdays that is DBS Ikari Broly or so (except the multiplier of x4,000). Sad part is that people don't get that a Buu Saga SS4 Goku would have been brutally murd☠️☠️☠️d or easily absorbed by Buuhan no matter what since that Buuhan would have been still at least x10 stronger. What!? Well, nobody, nobody can say that SS3 Goku was stronger than base Vegito and fkng damm nobody can say that SSB Goku is stronger than DBS Gogeta in base... PLEASE LOL, nooo. At the same time DBS show progression has post ToP SS2 Cabba able to beat Merged Zamasu that is stronger than SS4 Gogeta... SS Rose Goku is stronger than 100 years skip last chapter of GT SS4 Goku since GT has a linear power scaling and that Goku is only x100 vs the Omega fight Goku... while Goku Black can gain x100 power in 1 day of Zenkai... again, Super is in another realm of power scaling.

[@KingR1P]

DBS is very difficult to power scale and it feels like they only made it to sell toys. God ki was shown to be so much more powerful than normal ki at the beginning of Super, but then later on everybody without god ki can stomp Goku and Vegeta in their god forms. Speaking of god forms, it was clearly said that Goku absorbed the god ki during the BoG movie and implied he utilizes it. However, during the exhibition match Goku fought against that wolf and none of the GoDs batted an eye. The second he went SSJB against Toppo they were shocked and said that he was using god ki as a mortal. So, if he was utilizing it in his base form why did they wait for him to transform to say something? And the whole Vegeta and Cabba thing is blown outta proportion. Rewatching that fight Vegeta was barely trying in base while Cabba was grunting and yelling. But they are supposed to be even. Okay. Also, good point about Beerus. Going off of the original statements Goku should have surpassed Beerus by the end of the T.O.P., but during Moro after Goku was nearly killed in MUI Beerus was going to step in and he aint look worried in the slightest. Beerus is just used as a moving plot device so the people watching cant say Goku and Vegeta are the strongest in their universe. Thats it. SSJ4 Gogeta > Cabba. Easily.

[@dreemurrprince]

Absorbed its power, as in gained base power by experiencing the jump from SSG. It doesn’t make a lot of sense on its own, but he doesn’t literally use god ki in base and this was never implied, since he can be sensed after dropping out of god. And again, while the fight appears to be more one sided toward vegeta, this can be attributed to a different attitude and skill difference. Vegeta outright admits in his own thoughts that him and cabba are equals base to base. Why would he be lying in his own thoughts? And again.. in the anime interpretation, goku could have surpassed beerus by the end of the TOP that canon hasn’t been continued. The manga interpretation on the other hand, doesn’t imply goku is stronger than beerus, hell jiren beats UI goku in the manga. Beerus ain’t a moving goalpost, he’s confusing because there’s 3 different versions of the same story.

[@Jim-pq9pm]

I was under the impression that they simply forgot about RoF, and started having them use god ki at will, instead of all the time. Base Vegeta in Boo Saga>Base Cabba

[@Jim-pq9pm]

@@dreemurrprince "you've absorbed the power and made it your own" sounds like he's still using god ki.

[@dreemurrprince]

@@Jim-pq9pm everyone is able to sense goku after he drops out. Regardless of the interpretation and sound of it, he clearly either isn’t, or is only partially.

[@Jim-pq9pm]

@@dreemurrprince Where do they sense Goku after he drops out?

[@kr555wizard]

I honestly like this because when ever i bring up how everything worked that goku in base was stronger than ss3 goku in the buu arc, and can still go SS3 on top of that it means he is tens of thousands of times stronger than the strongest goku was in Z, and then got ss4 on top of that which was a boost comparable to fusion based on guide books, and then gogeta is a fusion of this power together. People would have to think fusion is a joke of a boost for gogeta to not beat cabba. Also If they want to take super's writing seriously then gt goku could easily beat beerus since ss2 pre god vegeta was 10% of beerus's power and goku in ss3 is easily at least a hundred times stronger.

[@Dr.Weirdx]

It’s even stated that ssj4 gogeta is the same one from fusion reborn

[@moodzi2429]

Where was it stated?

[@kevenmoreira6451]

I believe that there is no statement but for the simple appearance of cooler and other movie villains on gt it means a lot about the connection of the movie verse with the gt

[@Meelow-jp8lb]

I don't think this was *ever* stayed. But, they wear the same outfit, and GT Vegeta easily did the fusion dance, so...

[@aitorchul2262]

Well it was stated one video guy that stated it but well i leave the his channel name is KAZI search it you will find the ssj4 gogeta video pay attention and you will see the picture were the movies are canon to gt powerscaling.

[@smol-shogun2005]

A GT fan making shit up again 😂😂😂😂

[@xeratovildan9871]

Friendly reminder the GT perfect files direclty compare ssj4 Goku to Super Vegito from Z, so anything scaling him higher is fanon and ahould not be viewed as accurate. If an official guidebook says something, no matter how little sense you think it makes, or how much bitching and moaning you wanna do, its accurate. That same guidebook also has Ssj4 gogeta at only being tens of times stronger than that goku. Which means at best, the fusion could be a hundred times stronger than super vegito, from Z. GT fans will do anything to wank their shit to goku and gogeta wearing fursuits and ignore their literal own guidebook because they think their own fanon is better. Its sad. Just admit youre a DBS victim, damn.

[@bestdemon7734]

first off, that was baby saga ssj4 since nothing after was out yet second off, it was comparing multipliers if you read it right you guys will do anything to ignore the actual context of the statements or completely misinform what the statement is

[@ninetailedara3802]

@@bestdemon7734 right? this guys a goob.

[@GodsGiftToGrinds]

ssj4 gogeta is really in a class all his own, even the sparking zero devs know hes the strongest, as his power is on par with the giant characters in the game and beyond that, ssj4 goku and vegeta are both above their super saiyan blue forms in the character select, which realistically says nothing, but does imply that they are the strongest forms of goku and vegeta well, what a game says doesnt really matter right, its just a game

[@ghostkid252]

Well, SSJ4 is a cooler form 🙌

[@KopperNeoman]

What the games say should be used as a canon barometer. Sure, some things are dialled back for the sake of gameplay, like how game stories often dial things up for the sake of drama, but it's still true in general. SSJ4 is the strongest Saiyan form, even beating Blue Evolved. Ultra Instinct and Ego might have it beat, but they're not Saiyan forms.

[@silentecho92able]

I'm laughing my ass off as some people actually believe (Non-unironically ) Cabba would win against SSJ4 Gogeta. Base Goku at the start of GT would wipe the floor with Cabba.

[@moodzi1322]

People are unironically commenting on this video as well that cabba in his base beats Gogeta

[@silentecho92able]

@@moodzi1322 agreed

[@pokade3659]

@@moodzi1322 Bro hits him with the false Kamehameha and he dies from fear

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

​@@pokade3659in your fan fiction 😂🤣

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

God Ki Universal power, God Ki absorbed into Base 🤣🤣🤣 just because you don't like the feats doesn't mean they don't exist, Cabba finger flicks SSJ4 Gogeta you can cry about it all you want "it was fine till people took it seriously" it was ALWAYS serious 😂😂😂 you're just late to the party too bust twerking out to the Dragon Ball GT theme song "step into the grand tour"

[@DomiEE]

PLEASE CABBA I NEED THIS YOU’RE KINDA WAY TOO STRONG

[@aloudiara8675]

No

[@humanman9920]

" to fail at even massaging my shoulders man come on they've been stiff all day surely u do a bit better 😭"

[@TheCoolerBrother]

Oh boy 🤦‍♂️

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

​@@humanman9920 Cabba "ok sure" *flicks SSJ4 Gogeta all the way over to Dragon Ball Evolution*

[@pedrorodrigosilvacaldas7703]

I saw a guy that agrees that Super Perfect Cell(His regerated form after the Self Destruct to those who dint get it) beat SSJ2 Cabba, and he still think Base Cabba Solo SSJ4 Gogeta... do you guys understand the level of brain dead this is?

[@moodzi1322]

You mean the same guy who argues that cell is universal? Yeah these guys just go with the trend. They think the fan base hates GT so they try to score brownie points by agreeing with the meme.

[@pedrorodrigosilvacaldas7703]

@@moodzi1322 Yeah, Cell its at max Solar System level, plus you could destroy star by star and destroy the universe slowly.

[@SonGohan-gc4so]

this man changed my mind

[@malakaithorne5296]

Probably figured this would happen.

[@MichaelOlaleye-s4e]

“I don’t care what I read! It’s not about what you think, it’s not about reading comprehension, it’s about AGENDA! When will you guys understand that!?” - Jay D Legend

[@TonyStark-sq4wp]

Babe wake up new moodZi video just dropped

[@brmawe]

EDIT: First off great vid, this vid is most likely favorite vid of this "Cabba vs Gogeta Saga". Also the whole "I've used ten percent" line by Beerus was him lying to Goku and Vegeta, this was when Beerus & Whis are heading home right after at the end of the BOG arc. All your other arguments are 💯 valid with facts💪.

[@sonicandshadow247]

Oh my god. Finally. Someone who didn't the research between all the series. People don't realize how inconsiderate Super was compared to GT.

[@Genmaken-Hoshi]

17:15 - The actual video starts here. Anyway, finally someone who has addressed the only relevant issue here. IMHO, you should have led with it and left the rest for those who might've wanted to see more about power scaling.

[@T14and1]

When I first stumbled on this I thought this was nothing but a meme but then a friend told me this was actually a debate ppl were seriously having so I actually found it quite interesting. Now personally, where I sit on this debate, is that I'm not sure. Powerscaling is all over the place in both anime but the way I think about it is, if things were to make sense, cabba had to be stronger than ssj4 goku, but it's kinda impossible to know about ssj4 gogeta. I say this just because ssj4 goku could not beat shenron no matter what. Even with Vegeta they admit they wouldn't stand much of a chance in the long run. Shenron was defeated by the Universal spirit bomb, and if goku and Vegeta couldn't beat shenron they HAD to be weaker than that, and gogeta ssj4 was obviously way above universal level as you said in your video. Then in super, God goku Vs Beerus, they were casually about to destroy the universe just from punching each other. In my humble opinion, this has to mean God goku has to be over universal level there. After this you join years of training with whiss, you add 3 years (I believe) of hyperbolic time chamber training between goku and Vegeta and that's base Vegeta we see Vs Cabba. So again, vs gogeta ssj4 it's impossible to know but logically speaking, and even tho it sounds completly ridiculous, cabba would have to be much stronger than ssj4 goku. At least this is the logic I'm using. Even tho I feel it's a stupid outcome personally.

[@Gogeta-plushie]

Moodzi being consistent?!

[@OldFolkz]

6:55 thats what this entire thing boils down too.. even beyond cabba people will just downplay GT and pretend its weak in compared to super out of petty spite alone. I've broke out calculators and seth the programmer level arguments to scale gt before and the moment people start realizing that gt goku is disgustingly op it turns into straight hate and denial. 12:11 bro you just earned my sub. I been saying this shxt for years 😭😭

[@ch4rliegaming]

SSJ4 Ultra Full Power/Limit Breaker are absolute insane in multipliers and i hate when ite understimated

[@longlivetheblackmamba2-8-24]

I’m so glad somebody is out here spitting the facts

[@G.M.C-edits]

Someone give this man a price for the smartest db fan out there (not disrespecting y'all who's reading so you can chill)

[@bigheadJackman99]

Dragon ball super should’ve taken its time just like Dragon ball Daima. You can see that the animators actually put in the effort for daima. If Akira toryiama never told the animators to step it up they would’ve just kept Dragon ball super with bad animation. For the entire time it was basically the Goku and Vegeta show until the tournament of power. Gt is no better as it was the Goku show and it only had 64 episodes. Both of these shows had a lot of potential but fumbled hard.

[@timaeustanis]

I find it so ridiculous how some people actually think Cabba could even touch Gogeta

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

God Ki Universal power, God Ki absorbed into Base 🤣🤣🤣 just because you don't like the feats doesn't mean they don't exist, Cabba finger flicks SSJ4 Gogeta you can cry about it all you want "it was fine till people took it seriously" it was ALWAYS serious 😂😂😂 you're just late to the party too bust twerking out to the Dragon Ball GT theme song "step into the grand tour"

[@timaeustanis]

@@MajinUltraEgo-pv Ya do know that Saiyan Beyond the God is not canon right? And before you throw flaming sticks at me, Toriyama specifically said that the SBtG concept was too complex and hard to understand and literally ripped it out of canon. I understand how ungodly strong Cabba is for a random ass Saiyan (on par with Base Vegeta) but that doesn't make him instantly beat everyone

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

@@timaeustanis Saiyan Beyond God doesn't need to be canon, they literally ended up reaching that level of power anyways through Whis Training.

[@timaeustanis]

@@MajinUltraEgo-pv It was confirmed that end of ToP Goku and Vegeta (and hereby Cabba) are roughly on Super Perfect Cell's level, so around a SSJ2 from Z. Base GT Goku was already stronger than Fat Buu at the end of the first season, so GT Goku alone could kick Cabba's ass, let alone end of Dragons Saga Goku in SSJ4 Full Power plus end of Dragons Saga Vegeta in SSJ4 plus the rival fusion bonus plus another SSJ4 Full Power on top of that. Even with all the debuffs this guy showed in the video and more, Gogeta would still kick Cabba's fricking ass

[@Kenchi33]

​@@MajinUltraEgo-pvbro I've seen you comment on multiple statements about this. I'm thinking either A. You hate this video. Or B. you Hate Gt so much and are trying to cope with people having opinions on this topic. Or C. You're trolling to stir up the comments. (Probably gonna fire shots at me too for telling you this.) Just chill though. It's the Internet. The video is good and made by a good content creator.

[@Tonei_9]

I like this argument for ssj4. Good point of view.

[@DarkYTXEditz]

If you used the Domination Multipliers, the Multiplier for SSJ4 is 1.6 Billion Times base, but to find it out you would also need to apply the Baby boost to the Characters that get Possesed by Baby, Super Full Power SSJ4 would 16 Billion Times stronger than base and Ultra Full Power SSJ4 is 320 Billion Times stronger than base

[@theauditor3224]

the agenda remains intact. Cabba clears

[@Karina-b1v]

The best video I have seen on this topic

[@Kakbraze]

GOGETA SLAMSSS!!! (I watched the video) I have a question though, didn't omega plan on destroying the universe over time, the polution of the negative energy was doing it over time; The negative karma ball is the actual thing you should scale off

[@f-jayplayz6236]

Gogeta isn’t a potara fusion, which means that it isn’t Goku x Vegeta, it’s Vegeta squared. Because for this type of fusion, the stronger fighter has to lower themselves to be equal with the weaker fighter. Atleast that’s how I always understood it. Still crushing cabba tho

[@Uncle_Piccolo]

i know it's a joke, i just find it crazy people actually think Cabba wins.

[@jordandavilabrown294]

Interesting video, but I do have two things I disagree with (no hard feelings). 1. The problem is that you assume that by increasing the amount of blutz waves the multiplier for the oozaru would increase as well but this is false, you see the reason why they increased the blutz waves by 1,000 times was because Vegeta couldn't normally transform into an oozaru do to not having a tail anymore so inorder to get Baby to transform into an oozaru Bulma increased the amount of blutz waves to forcefully trigger the oozaru transformation itself. Therefore the golden oozaru is still a 10 times increase not a 10,000 times and ssj4 is 100 times increase in power since Super Baby 2 was able to keep up with a golden oozaru Goku and a ssj4 Goku was able to keep up with a golden oozaru Baby. 2. Goku didn't convert the ssj god ki into his regular base form ki, now I'm not saying that Goku didn't absorbed the power at all but base off of what I've seen in the anime and B.O.G film Goku didn't convert it into normal ki that mortals use but instead by absorbing the god ki Goku ended up gaining two pools of ki inside his body that being the god ki and his own ki. This makes sense given that in the anime when Goku said he didn't felt any changes in power despite being in his ssj1 form and if Goku really had converted the god ki into his regular ki then Goku would have either been in his ssj3 form since it's implying that he is still going all out at that point or Goku would have released that he's even stronger than before since he's only outputting 12.5% of his power. While yes the others can sense Goku's ki at that point their reaction to his ki didn't imply that Goku got exponentially more powerful then he was before and while Beerus did answer Goku's question on the matter it was more like Beerus was giving an educational guess since prior to the answer Beerus was confused as to what was going with Goku and when Goku asked Beerus what was going on Beerus said "how should I know". Episode 53 also supports this when Goku, Beerus, and Whis were heading back to U7 after a ssj2 Goku fought Zamasu, Goku commented on how Zamasu's strength reminded him of his fight with Beerus. This means that a ssj2 Goku at the beginning of the "Goku Black Arc" is comparable to a ssj god Goku from the "B.O.G Arc" in strength which would make sense given that Goku trained for three years in the "R.O.S.A.T" In the "Universe 6 Arc" So yeah Goku's regular base form didn't surpass the ssj god power he used against Beerus in the B.O.G arc and movie, thus a ssj1 Cabba from the U6 arc wouldn't be on the level of a ssj god Goku from the B.O.G arc let alone his base form.

[@Bardocks_Fig_Collection]

Do you not watch dragonball? Why would it be a 10× or a hundred times multiplier if ssj3 is a 400× multiplier?

[@Bardocks_Fig_Collection]

Also as he said he was up playing cabba so the point is? And if he wasn't toryiama literally said that it was inconsistent because he wasn't sure where the story would go also that means that buu wouldn't be able to sense his power sense he's not a god but buu can?

[@jordandavilabrown294]

@@Bardocks_Fig_Collection 1. I see, I guess I misunderstood what he said my bad😅. 2. ssj1 is 50 to 1,000 times that of base form depending on if you think "mastered ssj" has a higher multiplier or not, ssj2 is 2 times that of ssj1 (100 to 2,000 times base), ssj3 is 4 times that of ssj2 (400 to 8,000 times base), and ssj4 is 100 times that of ssj3 (40,000 to 800,000 times base).

[@Bardocks_Fig_Collection]

@jordandavilabrown294 wrong the ssj multiplier never changes if it did goku would have destroyed cell as he stayed in ssj and trained it constantly but a multiplier of 100 (ssj2) destroyed cell

[@jordandavilabrown294]

@@Bardocks_Fig_Collection I recommend you watch a video called "How Strong is Super Saiyan" from the KZbinr named "MrPerfectCell" I tried to link the video but for some reason it wouldn't go through.

[@nora-yc6fi]

Finally, someone with a higher than 3rd grade reading comprehension

[@NatSnack]

I tend to take that the "god" infused base is something that has to be activated. Like when Goku was fighting Frieza before they went SSB/Golden. Im just taking Cabba as being as strong as a non-god infused base Vegeta.

[@MrIrdatlan]

I know neither is canon, but the thing is, in the meme cabba beating ssj4 gogeta (even base gogeta, or goku/vegeta separate) isnt possible, because in Dragonball legends, cabba isnt even strong enough to beat Syn/Omega Shenron, heck, without ssj2 he couldnt beat Bojacks crew. Cabba would need atleast ssjb to compete against Gogeta because the order of form strength goee ssj1-3, god, ssj4, blue. Yes i commented before he said not to.

[@moodzi1322]

Which is a shame because a lot of my peers on KZbin made videos arguing otherwise. Especially channels that are even bigger than mine.

[@7even30Birdie]

SSJ4 could beat omega with 1 finger stated in the databooks.. Can Cabba do that??Especially in ss1😂

[@Nothightho]

A wise man once said "power levels are bulshit" -cant remember who

[@SledgerEdits]

- Tien dragon ball abridged

[@viniciuspereira7701]

-Vegeta

[@javonyounger5107]

I thought the Great Ape transformation was just an on-or-off thing that doesn't scale with more waves it just needs a minimum amount to trigger.

[@om9959]

Each Movies has different canon timelines and different versioms literally stated by koyama.There no confirmation that they are same version.Goku base still far stronger than ssg as he literally adapted to power and then punch the blast that knocked ssj goku previously who stronger than ssg.

[@Jim-pq9pm]

Ok. So what about the fact that this is totally inconsistent? If Vegeta caused Beerus to use 10% of his power, and we heavily low ball SSG and say he's only 20% of Beerus power, then base Goku is 20% Beerus at least, when he goes SS, that's a 50x multiplier, making him 10x as strong as Beerus, SS2 makes him 20x as strong, SS3 makes him 80X as strong, SSB makes him hundreds of times as strong as Beerus, and UI makes him thousands of times stronger than Beerus. All power scaling in Super is totally irrelevant, and can be casually disregarded

[@fg009letyrds8]

Oh yeah, so now Gohan, who doesn't even have God Ki, already far surpassed SSG Goku, meaning Beast Gohan is stronger than Beerus! Should I mention Broly who destroyed SSB? Just face it, Super has NEVER been a series that has remotely consistent powerlevel at all. Also there's no Absorbed SSG in the Anime, as that literally got RETCONED the moment Goku used SSG in the Anime (which they copied from the Manga)

[@franciscopereira7798]

​@@Jim-pq9pm Because beerus said he lied about the % of strength he used, go watch the show you idiot.

[@thatbloodyspy]

Db power scalers really just hate fun

[@rivius02]

Cabba has close to no experience, while vegeta PLUS goku, at worst it would be like the elden ring guy who beat the whole game bare hands without getting hit once

[@TrueReverse74]

Honestly, the super scaling wouldn't even be that much of an issue if the writers kept the distinction between base form and saiyan beyond god for when Goku and Vegeta fight weaker characters. Make a clear distinction for when they DO use the god essence and when they DON'T. That way, when vegeta says "my base form" we know he's talking about base without the god essence. Or like you said, just let the weaker characters fight more so we don't get absurd bs like this. Goku doesn't go blue against krillin and kale and stuff and it makes sense that goku is not completely destroying them with ease and we're not breaking our necks on why goku can fold kale and caulifla TOGETHER in GOD, but then earlier in the arc he's getting manhandled by Kale ALONE in BLUE!?

[@ghostkid252]

This whole thing is based on Cabba being equal to Vegeta in their base forms and I just...no ☠️ Vegeta easily no-sells Cabba while they're both Super Saiyan, and you can even throw a little rage boost onto Cabba or whatever to boot. It's laughable to think that string bean could take on even base form GT Goku, let alone freaking SSJ4 Gogeta ☠️☠️ I love this stupid community haha

[@nunovaladascardoso5581]

Gogeta ssj4 wins easily

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

In your fan fiction yes

[@Notazaku]

God of destruction base cabba would like to know your current location

[@Animeisfun551]

7:23 this makes him higher than universal since it had no space and time that makes him high hyperversal or outerversal with that feat alone

[@Mr_Rathalos]

I had started seeing the Cabba memes and thought "the heck is all this about"? Mainly because while I know of DBZ and grew up with it as a kid, I only have reliable knowledge up to the Cell Saga (that was the last place I left off when it boiled down to binge watching DBZ); Anything I know about DBZ these days is just from the internet and word of mouth. Seeing stuff like this in a deep analysis is pretty neat! I'm glad I was able to finally figure out what the deal with the whole Cabba vs. Gogeta was about, too.

[@JohnnyHeracles]

Big red monkey is such a raw name Epic

[@JerryNik]

"Please Gogeta, I _NEED_ this!!" ... "You're kind of the ultimate fusion..."

[@Jim-pq9pm]

As I understood it, SSB is a combination of god ki and SS, so when Vegeta goes to SS while fighting Cabba, that implies that he and Goku are able to suppress their god ki and use it at will. This would put Cabba base at around the same level Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan were in the Boo Saga. This narratively makes perfect sense.

[@jimiafolabi8016]

Their base forms are superior to BOG Goku. Remember that after that arc, base Copy Vegeta slammed Gotenks.

[@Jim-pq9pm]

@@jimiafolabi8016 I was simply trying to create some level of logical consistency to Supers power scaling. Clearly that was a fools errand. The idea that base Cabba is superior to a mythical god form of the Saiyans without even knowing SS is just pure laziness and carelessness.

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

​@@Jim-pq9pmJust because you don't like it doesn't mean it's lazy or careless, you just desperately want Cabba to be weak.

[@Jim-pq9pm]

@@MajinUltraEgo-pv No it's lazy and careless, because Toriyama spent a decade building up characters with logical progression, only to casually have a random Saiyan surpass it all with no explanation. What I desperately want is the writers to have a small amount of respect and passion for DB. Cell's power made sense, Boo's power made sense, Beerus' power made sense, even RoF Freeza's power made sense. Random, non SS saiyan surpassing SSG is embarrassing.

[@MajinUltraEgo-pv]

@@Jim-pq9pm So a old man creating robots on earth that are stronger than Super Saiyans make sense to you? Yeh thanks for letting me know how biased you are lmao

[@greenhakai]

Its easy that ssj4 gogeta wins this. But since its hilarious ill just say cabba wins i mean its a meme. Though base cabba might be stro-

[@ProbablyBlake42]

this clue that im about to say can litterly proove that gt is stronger than super see , when arale took aperence in super , she overwhelmed both ssgss goku and vegeta , BUT end of z goku is shoen to beat her IN BASE in the manga , and gt goku is way stronger than end of z , you get my point

[@michaelyanni6061]

Goku has been shown to move faster than light since the 22nd budakai so instant Transmission must be faster because it’s faster than kid goku because it can travel thur realms so gt goku using instant transmission is at least 100s to 1000s times faster than light but hey that’s just an estimation, a film estimation!, thanks for reading!

[@michaelyanni6061]

If the comment sounded weird it’s because that comment was kinda rushed

[@victimg8581]

MoodZi reminding us why he’s the GOAT

[@prosaicliving]

Great breakdown!

[@MuhammedBloodyx]

Let’s be realistic gt Vegeta would help cabba get ssj4 and train him after knowing super vegeta helped him

[@iJakku]

Is ssj4 possible without a tail then sure.

[@MuhammedBloodyx]

@@iJakku well Vegeta in gt got bulma to give him ssj4 by some robot or smt idk I never watched but he still didn’t gain it naturally so cabba could get it without a tail

[@iJakku]

That's a possibility indeed

[@elijahyancey3393]

@@MuhammedBloodyxyeah but he previously had a tail before. Maybe that plays into why it worked.

[@shadowdragonlord2295]

You're right on the money about Super being poorly planned and that they focused too much on Goku and Vegeta, though one way they could have justified huge power jumps/god level of power was to say that a character or characters received angel training. Especially for the ToP.

[@rohuffgamingakaLea1576]

You make some good points but I can't agree with some of your points some of em got holes (including some of the ones you didnt use). That aside, at the beginning you said you had a unique perspective on this debate, I discuss a lot of things regarding db with a lot of different people, and as a result i see a lot of different perspectives, yours is one I rarely come across, and I respect that, it's rare to find someone who scales because they scale, without some kinda biase towards the outcome, especially someone who also points out the writing can also be a factor, like you did towards the end of the video. Given the way you talked about the topic, I think you're probably the type of person who enjoys learning new perspectives and discussing them (as long as they stay civil) so I want to point out something about one of your points, most people don't entertain my line of thought on these types of points specifically but it'll throw it out there anyways, not like I haven't been called an idiot before, so if it happens, it happens but back to the topic, regarding the blutz waves and great ape baby, that's not necessarily a x1000 multiplier. Specifically it said he had 1000 times the normal amount of blutz waves, so let's say you need millions of blutz waves to go Great Ape, because i believe i heard that a while back, I'd have to go look to be certain so for now I'll call it hypothetical but let's say you measure blutz waves and you need 10 million blutz waves to go great ape, that means baby had 10 billion blutz waves, not necessarily he got 1000 times stronger. And i didn't hear this get brought up but a statement in an old guide compared super saiyan 4 goku to vegito in power, you might find that information, i think it was gt perfect files but I've been having trouble tracking the exact source down, i found a translated screenshot of it some time ago, but never personally seen the exact source.

[@jimiafolabi8016]

The anime and movie have different scaling. BOG isn’t canon to the anime dude.

[@moodzi1322]

I said that lil bro in the video 😭😭

[@dwightnorton3398]

I agree with you man , great job

[@Kenchi33]

I think what everyone forgets that when it comes to dragon ball. It's not just raw power and fist fighting. It's also what each fighter has in their arsenal. If it comes down to a fight between Any two powerful fighters its who has a more diverse arsenal. And who knows how to use that arsenal better.

[@sammysam2142]

One thing I want to mention here that you did touch upon briefly is just how strong GT Goku got from the Baby saga to the Super 17 Saga. Maj-Uub gave Super Baby (Vegeta) 2 a run for his money showing despite Baby being stronger, they were around the same ballpark and even when Goku transformed into his SSJ4 Form, Super Baby 2 was still relative to SSJ4 Goku. Now in the Super 17 saga as you said Maj-Uub wasn't even budging Super 17 despite his best efforts. It took an SSJ1 Goku to punch Super 17 in the stomach which had tremendous impact showing his SSJ1 self becoming close or even Stronger than he was as an SSJ4 in the previous Saga. This would mean since he was able to destroy a dimension base form in the Baby saga he could do way more in the Super 17 saga. base form.

[@moodzi1322]

An astute absorption. I tip my fedora to you

[@Tachyon836]

Even if we assume Cabba is SSG Goku tier, it was stated in the GT Perfect Files that SSJ4 Goku is stronger than or at minimum equal to Super Vegito in Z. SSJ4 Gogeta is combining to SSJ4 level fighters with some more on top. Even if we accepted that Cabba was somehow stronger than SSJ4 Goku, there's no way he'd be stronger than a SSJ4 Goku x SSJ4 Goku.

[@tchrono12]

Love this , yet ppl still think GT is weaker..... smh :D Finally, another person that Understands GT! I legit cry when i see super fanboys say stuff like Blue goku > SSJ4 Gogeta EZ , or even UI Goku > BLUE GOGETA OUT OF ALL THINGS XD it really makes me cry... :D For this alone u get a sub and a like! :3

[@piegodmi]

I don't believe the statement "The person who wins in a fight is the person the scriptwriter wants to win" is necessarily claiming that the writer can decide who wins the fight with disregard to any logic or cohesion. I believe it means that the writer can structure the story in either character's favor to get them to a point to beat the other character. For example, Goku can't beat Super Buu in Z even with Super Saiyan 3. In Super, Goku achieves Super Saiyan God which puts him above Super Buu and likely allows him to win. Whoever is writing the story can do something similar for either side and allow them to beat the opposing character through various means. The statement when applied to non-western comic stories is insisting that the writer is GOOD and is able to make the story cohesive and reasonable for either side depending on who's going to win. And in regards to power-scaling, people often misinterpret feats in a story because a choice (like a character moving quickly, certain attacks, goddamn island sizes) might've been a split-second decision and they end up completely disregarding the actual intention that thing in the story. Writers definitely power scale their stories but not in the same way some people do it ignorantly, unreasonably, and in an attempt to "one-up" other people.