Gohan-TX | Poking Holes In His Pro-Abortion Stance | Talk Heathen 06.18

[@belakun5050]

According to Gohan you should not seek medical help for cancer because by his definition that is a human organism too...

[@gohanprolife8389]

Cancer is not a human organism

[@AJ-vm8ft]

Gohan is pro cancer

[@johntuel2375]

This is why Chi Chi told Gohan to keep hitting the books.

[@LittleDays]

1:00 Paraphrased: “You should not kill a human organism unless there’s a high risk of harm” The caller admitted that an embryo isn’t as valuable as a sentient person

[@andrewfairborn6762]

He’s a misogynist, that’s a central theme here. He genuinely believes that his flawed, ignorant and harmful opinion should count as much and in most cases override a woman’s choice regarding her body. That’s how entitled this disgusting human being is.

[@benf6822]

Pregnancy harms a woman's body and is potentially deadly, if you dont quantify harm your premise is crap.

[@gregsanich5183]

It shouldn't even be a question of if abortion should be permitted, it should be a question of if pregnancy should be permitted. Any activity that is as dangerous and potentially fatal as pregnancy, needs to be strictly regulated. Abortions should be mandatory. Unless both parents are 1st willing to sign off on committing to raise the child together to ensure its potential aswell as it's quality of life. Plus it has the added benefit of providing gender equality for reproductive rights. The mother should also need to meet a rigid set of physical and psychological standards, and be able to demonstrate that she is fit enuf & capable of enduring and surviving the harm and hardship that pregnancy is going to inflict.

[@benf6822]

@gregsanich5183 the funny thing is, even after all that the risk is still significant. And then there's the post partum that is absolutely unpredictable

[@gregsanich5183]

@@benf6822 all the more reason abortions need to be enforced as mandatory so that we can stop all the death and suffering that pregnancy is responsible for. Abortions save lives. The more abortions ppl have, the more lives will be saved.

[@steveyuhas9278]

This. Exactly. His point falls apart also, may I add, when you factor in the idea that someone else gets to decide for YOUhow much harm you are capable of taking. Not willing to take or wanting to take..shit you don't even get to decide if you want any harm at all. It's how much harm someone ELSE decides you are GOING to take before deciding for you that it's too much. Harm tolerance is subjective for different people, not to mention. Some people are willing to go through life enduring intense avoidable harm and others, near none. Gohan has not thought this through. His piss poor string of non arguments that got him to Jesus are informing his opinion on this as well. He acts intellectual but he's an actual idiot.

[@UlexiteTVStoneLexite]

Forcing me to give birth is causing me harm so why are you making the harm acceptable to me but not acceptable to the unconscious fetus? One of us is conscious and aware and the other is not

[@rennnnn914]

Exactly

[@seannelson3613]

I can't believe Old Kai wasted so much time powering him up just for this.

[@Mike_Jones281]

Staring at that stick caused a lot of brain damage.

[@lonewolf9964]

Are you sure it wasn't grampa Gohan

[@jz-meister5343]

I admit - I clicked on this video just because the caller’s name is Gohan, and this comment did NOT disappoint 🤣😂

[@seannelson3613]

@@lonewolf9964 Oh, that's a good point! But, he said that it was based on a Dragonball Z character, so it couldn't be.

[@liv328]

"You should not be able to kill a human organism." I assume than that this guy has NEVER brushed his teeth and spit.

[@2ndbreakfast29]

Theres gonna be a severe risk of harm for anyone telling me what I can't do with my own body. All these caring individuals trying to determine what free peoples are gonna do with their bodies better start donating organs and adopting children in large numbers, if they care so little about bodily autonomy and so much about "children". They also better get off that sentiment next time someone tells their moldy faces to wear a mask. This abortion topic is making me right mad and I've only listened to a minute of the call

[@2ndbreakfast29]

Also I'm so over gohan, sullying a good dragoball z character. Stay in your lane and use your own name instead of hiding

[@gohanprolife8389]

No one cares what you do with your body. As long as you don’t kill your kid.

[@ruthmbetteridge]

The harm he’s talking about can only be viewed as potential harm as there’s no point worrying about the actual harm a pregnancy might cause. The potential harm a pregnancy can cause is catastrophic or deadly. Therefore any pregnancy can be terminated under his own definition. Thanks for ur support on the pro choice issue!

[@gregsanich5183]

It shouldn't even be a question of if abortion should be permitted, it should be a question of if pregnancy should be permitted. Any activity that is as dangerous and potentially fatal as pregnancy, needs to be strictly regulated. Abortions should be mandatory. Unless both parents are 1st willing to sign off on committing to raise the child together to ensure its potential aswell as it's quality of life. Plus it has the added benefit of providing gender equality for reproductive rights. The mother should also need to meet a rigid set of physical and psychological standards, and be able to demonstrate that she is fit enuf & capable of enduring and surviving the harm and hardship that pregnancy is going to inflict.

[@TheSnoeedog]

@@gregsanich5183 I advocate for *MANDATORY PARENTAL LICENSURE!* perhaps you're on board too?

[@gregsanich5183]

@@TheSnoeedog so long so as it leads to ppl having more abortions. Abortions save lives. The more abortions ppl can have, the more lives we can save.

[@tomdugmore5393]

I can't believe Kenneth and Johnny didn't point out the glaringly obvious problem of 'You shouldn't be able to kill a human organism unless there is severe risk of harm'. Given that you can die in childbirth, EVERY pregnancy carried the severest risk of harm! Therefore, it's justified to terminate ANY pregnancy by his own argument!

[@humbertoperalta8356]

Don’t understand how Christians are so against abortion when the baby Jesus himself aborted the first born of all of Egypt. Mind boggling.

[@adrianmetzler2523]

And or by using their logic, we’d be sending innocent “souls” straight to god with out having them risk becoming a “sinner” and going to the gods hell place.

[@oldcountryboy]

It wasn't exactly Abortion He had the 1st born of every household Killed So if you were in a younger brother your older brother your brother was the one killed It is still pretty s***** It does seem like God is always punishing children Let's not forget about all those starving children in Africa God makes everybody and everything for a reason So he just makes those children so he can watch them suffer And they want to worship Thing like that I am glad he is not real Can you imagine a monster like that with that kind of power

[@JayJay-two]

And Don Baker has said that since over 50% of all embryos that ever existed misscarry naturally in other words by the christians God. So God is a super "Mass Slaughterer"

[@humbertoperalta8356]

@@adrianmetzler2523 true that.

[@humbertoperalta8356]

@@oldcountryboy good thing he’s not real

[@UlexiteTVStoneLexite]

I do not want to give birth. Forcing me to give birth violates my own autonomy over my own body. You cannot force me to do something I do not want to do. I do not want to give birth. That is the end of the discussion I do not want to give birth.

[@lorraineclark4413]

I am NOT a slave. Hands off my body or you are a RAPIST! Force me to bear a child like a SLAVE & you are a SLAVE MASTER. Anyone trying to rape or enslave me will find a blade at his throat. Got it? Now you men can SHUT UP.

[@wwlib5390]

Ranting Ratite. Get your ovaries taken out. Stop having sex. Don't get pregnant. Lots of choices. Murder shouldn't be on the top of your 'easy fix-it' list.

[@TheSnoeedog]

feel free to join us here in soviet canuckistan where the only federal regulation re: abortion is including it in your free health care as a Charter Right

[@UlexiteTVStoneLexite]

@@TheSnoeedog feel free to continue being a dingus

[@sydneybristow5588]

Exactly 💯 💯 💯

[@teufellhunden]

All pregnancies pose a high risk of severe harm to the person with a uterus.

[@keithulhu]

Theists who say that their opposition to abortion is not based on their religion are being disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst.

[@wwlib5390]

It really doesn't have to be about 'religion'. It's murder, plain and simple. Any societies' morals - Christian or otherwise - should stand against murder.

[@TheSnoeedog]

Gohan - "I'm totally frothing at the mouth about abortion and absolutely a christian, but the two positions aren't at all related, because I 'used to be an atheist"" ....fucking train wreck

[@annk.8750]

In the discussion on euthanasia, the person who can judge the harm is the person who is affected, NOT some third party. Similarly, the woman is the one who is capable of an abortion decision, and no stranger can judge that for her. Her abortion causes no harm to the legislator who insists that it be forbidden ...and worst of all, does so with the cynical aim of getting elected. If they really don't like abortion, the sensible thing to do would be to provide fact-based sex education in every school, and make conreaception available to all, factors that actually work. The fact that conservatives don't do that is proof that they don't actually care to reduce abortions at all.

[@andrewfairborn6762]

They need single mothers to push their immorality agenda.

[@allykaman9340]

The belief in souls leads to the belief that a clump of cells or a half-developed embryo is worth more than a woman's life. The belief that abortion is even ABOUT the fetus is insulting. An abortion "kills" a fetus the same way that NOT donating a kidney kills someone with kidney failure. i.e. incidentally.

[@capthavic]

And these are the same people who couldn't give two shits about the child (let alone mother) after the birth. Doesn't matter if the mother (or both) could die in the process, all they want is an excuse to punish women for having sex.

[@Furry-iousNews]

4:56 Wonder how gohan is feeling about the "life and safety of the mother" when ken paxton is literally going against the texas SUPREME COURTS RULING that a woman is allowed to have an abortion fot a nonviable pregnancy....

[@Don-ii4vm]

Gohan must be really conflicted when consigning all those sperm to a dirty sock. ... All those potential lives now lost. 😭😭😭

[@gohanprolife8389]

Not one of those is s human organism

[@campfireaddict6417]

@@gohanprolife8389 Are they human? Yes. Are they an organism? Yes.

[@Don-ii4vm]

@@gohanprolife8389 How is it that you think people should judge these issues on your ignorant beliefs? Considering the number of you lot who fought against wearing masks, you are clearly not "pro life." If anything, quite the reverse.

[@gohanprolife8389]

@@campfireaddict6417 are they a human organism? No

[@gohanprolife8389]

@@Don-ii4vm masks prevent indirect accidental death. Abortion bans prevent direct intentional killing. I hope you can see the difference.

[@lachlandunn2137]

A born human doesn't rely on the bodily resources of another. Not analogous

[@ericb9804]

Gohan seems to think "secular humanism" means thinking "humans are special." This is not secular humanism. Secular humanism is the idea that the source of morality is the human experience. Of course abortion causes "severe harm to a human.' But so what? We, humans, deem it appropriate anyway for reasons of bodily autonomy, which we, as humans also value. This is why "secular humanists" can also be pro-abortion.

[@gohanprolife8389]

Is bodily autonomy absolute?

[@ericb9804]

@@gohanprolife8389 No, but only in the sense that nothing is "absolute."

[@jonammons5882]

This feels so personal and specific. I wonder if Gohan's mom told him she thought about aborting him.

[@artistryartistry7239]

Wow, so you jumped straight to an ad hominem attack on his argument. Fail.

[@jonammons5882]

@@artistryartistry7239 ...huh? Its an honest question not an attack, let alone an attack on his argument. Someone considering an abortion about a child does not mean that person is a bad person, where did you get that idea? There are many reasons to consider an abortion, I don't think a common one is, "I think this kid is going to suck".

[@artistryartistry7239]

@@jonammons5882 It is an attack on his argument in that it subverts and debases it; whether you intended it to be or not. You're drawing an (unwarranted) and personalized connection between his conclusions and their basis in an emotional event. If a woman speaks out against feminism and you say "wow, I wonder if she's just pissed because she can't find a job" that's ad hominem.

[@jonammons5882]

@@artistryartistry7239 That really feels like you are reaching. Many people in MADD lost a child to a drunk driver. Is it detrimental to their argument?

[@AlexPBenton]

I was born a couple years before 9/11, at that time, my mom regretted giving birth to me because of how afraid she was for my future. I’m not sure if Gohan had a similar experience or not, but regardless, it is a motivator for me to fight against abortion. If my younger brother had been born a few months later, he might not have been born at all.

[@mihaimoldo]

As a romanian I was surprised he mentioned the movie. One quick correction, that movie showcases a very tame scenario of life under the communist regime where abortion was banned. The reality was ofc much more brutal. We lived that movie and then some....my Mother included.

[@johnnyphilindablanq8536]

I might have biffed on the nation of origin, but yeah, it's a powerful movie, and just *one* fictional example of why this issue is not merely some "curious intellectual exercise" as some persons might consider it.

[@petermeichan3160]

is that the movie when they show a woman driving her daughter to another state to get an abortion and being stopped and arrested by a cop and charged with attemped murder ?

[@mihaimoldo]

@@petermeichan3160 no. It's about 2 young women trying to get an abortion in communist Romania when abortion was banned entirely.

[@sophistichistory4645]

Oh, Lord!!....here's my simple question.... A woman choosing to terminate her pregnancy neither picks your pocket nor bloodies your nose, so, why should you have any input in her very personal decision??

[@2l84me8]

People have no business telling others what they can’t remove from their bodies. Claiming abortion is murder is like saying not donating blood is killing another person.

[@artistryartistry7239]

Terrible analogy. If one considers a human organism as a thing worthy of rights, your argument is nonsensical, since it fails to just be a "thing" to be removed.

[@benf6822]

@@artistryartistry7239 not just rights, the "pro-life" crowd want SPECIAL rights for foetuses

[@SNORKYMEDIA]

@@artistryartistry7239 should we ban menstruation then ? it is getting rid of 50% of a human after all

[@artistryartistry7239]

@@SNORKYMEDIA No obviously, because menstruation is not deliberate act that could result in a life. Instead stupid "gotcha questions" why don't you actually engage the topic?

[@blarglemantheskeptic]

@@artistryartistry7239 when in the process does it becomes a "human organism", and why?

[@alexmarkadonis7179]

The life issue is a red herring. We would lack reasons to care about the well-being of a "baby" with the sentience quotient of a plant. A fetus has as much interest in living or not dying as a car does in not rusting.

[@topcat2069]

"I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." --- Susan B. Anthony Gohan-TX his position is contentious and not well researched. His script is an old one that he uses over and over again. Women health care is HEALTH CARE, Human rights should not be used as props in the theocratic push for christian nationalism. Gohan is Dismissed

[@135ipocketrocket2]

If you care about humanity, and the well being of humans, abortion is far preferable to the hell that so many children suffer at the hands of parents who didn't want them or are just not prepared or capable of raising them. As for this caller, he's failed at every show he's called to, yet still follows his failed ideology. Give it up, geez.

[@solly119119]

I'm getting frustrated with some of the defenses I'm hearing among pro-choice hosts. For the first 8 minutes I listened to Kenneth go from things like asking the caller "what is harm", and "what is a human organism", when they should be asking the caller to ... make your case a fetus is the same thing as you, me or a one-day-old infant!!!!! Because they can't! It is simply their opinion. This caller in no uncertain terms was making the person-hood argument, and so many of the hosts let them get away with it. Make ... them ... prove ... it! But they can't. And because they can't their entire person-hood argument is destroyed.

[@lorraineclark4413]

I am NOT a slave. Hands off my body or you are a RAPIST! Force me to bear a child like a SLAVE & you are a SLAVE MASTER. Anyone trying to rape or enslave me will find a blade at his throat. Got it? Now all you men can SHUT UP.

[@gohanprolife8389]

Very easily done bud. Genetically (that’s how we define organisms) we are the same.

[@solly119119]

@@gohanprolife8389 I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt you're not a troll, but that will probably quickly change. Because to say we're genetically all the same is possibly the most asinine anti-abortion argument I've ever heard. I've never even heard the Jesus freak zealots use that one.

[@gohanprolife8389]

@@solly119119 I appreciate that haha. But most ppl think I am. It’s up to you bud. I’m honestly here for honest discussion. My goal is to change my mind

[@kpl-CA]

​​​@@gohanprolife8389DNA", huh? 🤣 So then cancer has personhood, because it is created out of human DNA. Poop, snot, blood, saliva... and every biopsy on a human must "create" a "new person" - with DNA based "personhood". Like *magic*. Of course, OOOPSIES, there no such thing as *one* definition of "human DNA", is there. DNA VARIES in humans. Only the WW2 "bad guys" thought there was ONE "supreme" genetic ideal. We now know humans are incredibly DIVERSE. So which percentage of "human DNA" makes a person "DNA person" in YOUR system? Are there specific genes that are required? Are apes then "persons" as their DNA is VERY close to homo sapiens... And which percentage of homo-sapiens DNA is required, exactly? How much other humanoid DNA is "permitted" in "persons"? Oh, and does it have to be all *original* DNA? Because OOOPSIES, DNA changes, degrades, mutates... And GOSH every *ever* pregnant female carries previous fetal DNA along with their own. So which "person" are THEY, exactly? Are formerly pregnant females multiple "persons"? Are they more or less valid "persons" than the born offspring? What about the changes to baseline DNA from blood transfusions, organ transplant patients, chemo patients, biologic meds, all blood products, or even those with viral infections like Chicken Pox, that hides in their own cells and can alter DNA. Is *that* "DNA" valid? Do organ transplant patients suddenly get DOUBLE "personhood"? But what if the donor gave to multiple people? How do they rotate that additional percentage of "personhood"? Which source of DNA is the "declaration" made from, exactly? Which source is the "pure" representative DNA of the whole "person"? And what about environmental changes? Does an x-ray scan at the airport render everyone "non-persons"? What about suntanning? Leaded gas? Pesticides? Are farmers not "persons" now? What if the person has a genetic disorder - like a trisomy? Are they suddenly NOT a "person" because their genotype is not the "approved DNA"? Who decides on the "approved DNA" that establishes a "valid" and "not valid" person? On what authority do THEY get to invalidate others? What about the rate of spontaneous mutations, or epigenetic changes. Which state is the "correct" one for determining "personhood"? Fetal? Infant? Child? Adult? Senior? And gee, identical twins, triplets, quads would have to *SHARE* a single personhood, then. As their DNA is the same. How do they decide who's the "person" on weekends? Or is that decided *for* them? What about parasitic twins and chimerism? Which "DNA" decides the "person"? Enquiring minds want to know... 🤔

[@gspendlove]

The simple fact is that some people who are pregnant need safe abortion procedures and should not be precluded by law from having them. And in the end, somebody else's abortion is none of your business.

[@Steve0272.]

ALL pregnancy comes under the legal definition of " severe harm " using his own principle/ premise abortion is justified ... debate over 👍

[@denemorgan-kanu8624]

Why is he not calling in when someone hosting has the capacity/ability to actually give birth? Coz he's hoping "men" will agree with him. It astounds me that "men" think they can solely determine what happens to a woman's body...

[@NottherealLucifer]

1.) Men, not "men" they identify as men, they are men. 2.) Men absolutely control what happens to a woman's body, accept that and move forward. Is it right? No, but that's reality. Politicians are men more often than they are women, they control women's bodies. You want to change that? Work within this system, quickly, rather than just declaring that men can't determine what happens to women's bodies, we can and we do. Change that.

[@petermeichan3160]

5:00 n0 sane person would agree with his claim and no doctor certainly would not

[@grantm6514]

He thinks he has a gotcha with "If secular humanists think harming is bad, then abortion must be bad". He ignores the fact that early in the pregnancy the fetus is not person, and yet he considers it the only party that might be harmed, and he basically assigns it more right to health and happiness than he affords the mother/family/society. Secular humanism is about weighing/balancing harm and well being, it's not an all/nothing any/none strawman he has constructed.

[@capthavic]

Even if we agreed to grant personhood at that stage (and I don't) it doesn't change the fact that nobody has a right to use your body without consent, even after death. It's easy for him to be anti-choice because it's not his bodily autonomy being revoked...at least not yet. Wonder if he'd have any objections if he was forced by law to donate blood and organs regardless of his consent or any risks involved.

[@jamesmuncy2968]

How about the harm It does to the mothers future if she can’t afford to raise a child?

[@NottherealLucifer]

"I was an atheist..." the second greatest lie ever told by any theist, second only to "I know a god exists."

[@jewsco]

I love how the Christians try to claim this isn’t coming from their Christian views and somehow all of them were atheists once

[@jamieoshea1681]

Always a feck’n man 😂😂😂😂

[@bulkvanderhuge9006]

Zygote: The cell formed by the union of two gametes, a fertilized ovum before cleavage.

[@Rage867]

This is the problem. People who have the mentality that if one person agrees me the every one should have absolutely no business making decisions for other people's lives. If abortion actually effected him he wouldn't be so casual about it but since he feels women shouldn't have rights then he should be dismissed with prejudice.

[@MarC-te4he]

If men want to force women to have babies, then we need to find a way for those men to carry and deliver babies. What if they had someone put something in them and then force them to keep it in their bodies no matter their choice? I know there are men who stand for women's rights. Thank you for being the true champions!

[@cmack17]

I do not believe this is a difficult conundrum. As a "Secular Humanist", despite the implication made by the caller, I do not make the universal claim that harming a "human organiam" is universally immoral. In this situation, bodily autonomy overrides the "harm" (of the fertilized egg) consideration. This is because there is only one biologically autonomous human organism in this situation. I believe I have a compromise. If anyone believes the fertilized egg is autonomous (at any stage), simply disconnect the organism from the pregnant organism and let the claimed autonomy demonstrate itself.

[@Sanxioned1]

Really wish you didn't let him go on the stakeholder part. He clearly thinks he "won" that point, when it's blatantly obvious the stakes are not equal for everyone. A woman's body becoming mutilated by a foreign entity for 9 months and more afterwards is not the same thing as say, the father needing to pay child support by law. Money comes and goes, one's health *only* goes. As for his "gotcha" point about "well any of us could have been aborted" -- so the fuck what? We weren't, that's not the issue. If Gohan found out his mother was *forced* against her will to give birth to him... I wonder how he'd feel about that. That he was the product of something his mom never wanted to happen.

[@EricaAmyKees]

Eggs and sperm are human organisms. Guys, according to this dude you can't ever flush away your jizz; like (all) guys are going to jail billions of times each.

[@PastelOddity]

“It’d be the same as killing a born human who can’t feel.” Is he talking about the people who are born not able to feel pain? Because they feel *other* sensations-including unpleasant ones. They don’t lead “typical” lives, that condition comes with a multitude of other nervous and neurological issues. It’s just as easy to harm them as anyone else. That’s not the case for fetuses and zygotes.

[@CeezGeez]

how many attempts does it require to get an apologist to directly answer a question?

[@a1612]

How about a mind your own business discussion. Unless you know the inherent risks of being pregnant, which I doubt that you do, eclampsia, craniosynotosis, ectopic pregnancy, fetal death, abnormal fetal growth (heart outside the body cavity. these all require termination not to mention different miscarriage syndromes. abortion is a medical procedure.. the lack of nuance in the so called pro life position is centered on the cases where abortion is for the most part in the early stages (blastocyst) and often there is a valid reason. Late term abortion after the 6 month obviously is an emergency since no one would carry a fetus that far unless they wanted a child. These christian men want to punish women for being sexual beings

[@robinvan1983]

If he is so obsessed by harm why isn't he fighting for guncontrol?

[@AJ-vm8ft]

Next time, give us a warning to wear a helmet. I now have CTE from putting my unprotected head through the wall 3 times listening to Gohan.

[@unclecarmine6239]

I certainly pray that none of these right wingers attempt to harm our two hostesses

[@blarglemantheskeptic]

OP👈 Bob Bob, Uncle Carmine, Trans is a m.... i..., (fake) A.J. Clemants, (fake) Blogulman the Skeptic/ (fake) Blougleman the Skeptic/ (fake) Blargalman The Skeptic/ (fake) Blargilman the Skeptic/ Atheism is A cult/ Transisms R immoral/ Atheists hate free speech (original) / Atheist R Communist/Jim Brown/Jimmy James/Jimmy Kirk/Atheistmoms Rchimps/Anime Atheistlove/Disbeliefs aredumb/Christen Dom and all SIX (fake) Ook Eek the Librarian.

[@julief5291]

From the sounds of it Gohans mother should of had a termination when he was a few cells. If he wants women to continue their pregnancy is he going to pay the prenatal visits and is he going to adopt the baby? All people have a right to their own body. If Gohan was growing 'a few cells' (which was a malignant cancer) would he want it removed, or not?

[@phxsunfan]

One is amazing

[@petermeichan3160]

13:00 using gohan ( Logic ) if a sperm is nit a human organisim then niether is an egg or a lcuster of cells - gotcha gohan next !

[@Orochi_001]

I feel like this guy is a Bort license plate.

[@Nelsathis]

If harm is eliminating future experiences and you are against that you can never say no to a date again, am i wrong here? And now polygamy is born, cause you cant abort it.

[@harmpetervanvelzen4673]

With my, Dutch, first name Harm, this is a difficult episode to listen to 😁

[@theo-dawg8519]

Abortion is killing a human because it is an unwanted inconvenience.

[@MizumD]

Give me more Johnny and Kenneth please! Great mixture of nice and poignant.

[@toforgetisagem8797]

Gohan just a bee in his bonnet about abortion. I think he is a bit lonely and needs someone to talk to. He would be better off helping a church feed the hungry.

[@TheSnoeedog]

OR FINDING THE RIGHT LENGTH OF ROPE, FOR A SHORT DROP WITH A SUDDEN STOP

[@toforgetisagem8797]

@@TheSnoeedog 😂😂🤭🤣😂

[@TheSnoeedog]

@@toforgetisagem8797 your laughter has but a big grin on my face! 😁😁😁

[@toforgetisagem8797]

@@TheSnoeedog 😁👍

[@karensanders1233]

Harm should be measured by the life that will experience the most harm and that is always the life that is pregnant. The argument always boils down to a religious one as it did in this case. He tried to keep it secular on the grounds of protecting a “human organism.” But arguments always falls apart when you make the theist talk about problems with real human suffering - rape, incest, extremely young girls and dangerous pregnancies. It always boils down to the same thing - God has some plan that we don’t understand. So we have to accept that it’s ok if a 10-year old girl is raped and forced to have a baby because you are protecting a “human organism.” If you abort in this situation, you are killing a “human organism.” So therefore, you can’t really have an exception to this and be true to your desire to protect a human organism. If a woman has a miscarriage, well, God decided that the baby should be aborted and that’s ok because God has a plan we don’t understand. If the woman is facing a dangerous pregnancy, her life is put in danger by these ridiculous laws like the heartbeat law, forced to go home and wait for the baby to die inside of her and hope that she doesn’t die too. This is taking the decision out of the hands of the woman and her doctor and into the hands of religious zealots who tell the rest of us we have to accept their God’s plan. This secular humanist argument is pure fantasy as he never considered the suffering of the woman involved. It would be nearly impossible to find an anti-abortion advocate who isn’t religious and that is the basis of their belief with regard to this issue.

[@williamtarry4405]

Government Mandated Pregnancies. How far we've fallen...

[@camcam8995]

Does bro not realize that people don’t know if it’s going to cause harm until it’s already coming out sometimes, literally every single pregnancy has potential risk and it’s not like a clear thing like you go to the doctor and they can give you a exact % chance of death lol. Even if its 1% can we make people do that I don’t think so

[@JayJay-two]

Oh no. Not another "I used to be an atheist". So bogus. Sad😓

[@Rage867]

His entire premise is based upon the idea of hurting a human organism. First off here is the actual definition which is obviously different from what he claimed it was. zy·gote /ˈzīˌɡōt/ Learn to pronounce nounBIOLOGY a diploid cell resulting from the fusion of two haploid gametes; a fertilized ovum. Note it never mentions human organism. A fetus at the time of legal abortion has no thought, no sense, nothing. It's a mix of developing organs. Gohan says multiple times that it is sentient. He compares specifically to abortion being like killing a human with no sense of pain. Meaning he thinks a mass of cells has a soul so it can think, which is such obvious bullshit.

[@livingart2576]

Why is it 99% of the time I see a person speaking out against abortion it’s a male?? Guys… stop trying to tell women what they can and can’t do with their body. Times have moved on since man created a religion in which women were under your control.

[@Eric-qv2rz]

Correct the guy on the right didn't want to go down that track where the stakes are high for everyone cause anyone could have been aborted!

[@svendtang5432]

Abortion is a hard topic.. of the simple reason when is it a “human” being that needs rights? I’m pro abortion just to make it clear. Views on this that is not religious are welcomed

[@SimonFD]

I don't think that the question is framed correctly, I think the question should be, do we really want to give rights to a fetus that a born person doesn't have (i.e. the right to use the body of another without their consent). I think that the question of personhood of the fetus should be taken out of the equation because it is practically irrelevant until the fetus is viable.

[@djfussell1987]

Well just the act of giving birth holds a risk of severe harm and health issues, so using his logic all pregnancies should be terminated. Sure the risk is alot more minimal now thanks so scientific advances, but the risk is still there and the act of giving birth is a traumatic experience that can have long term effects!

[@lancehill9971]

Gohan is a frequent caller and should be banned he's ignorant and doesn't seem to want to learn anything

[@jeziscricket4448]

Ken you will never be able to pin anything down, , ,except Hell and the Harm it will bring you.

[@rayxav]

Hey, “pro-life” ers, how about this: Just mind your own business!

[@AlexPBenton]

This is my business, it could have been my life, but at the time I couldn’t have defended myself.

[@benf6822]

@@AlexPBenton could have been but wasn't, ergo, not your business. All the money in your bank account could have been mine, should I be able to dictate where you spend it?

[@blarglemantheskeptic]

@@AlexPBenton what was it like before you were born?

[@chethanburre6016]

So if something can't feel pain, it's okay to harm it?🤔

[@artistryartistry7239]

I think these guys are being disingenuous. The caller is quite obviously suggesting that an abortion results in a life that would've occurred, not occurring as a result of the abortion. And that the "harm" done is both to the cells that would've progressed to a life, as well as the snuffing out of all and any potential for that pending being to have experienced life and all its possibilities, many of which we hold dear. Rather than grappling with this weight of the concept and its moral dimensions, they pretend they don't know this is what the caller is getting at, even going so far as to throw roadblocks in the caller's way, hoping they can impede him on technicalities, when they already understand the general thrust and intent of his argument. Seems very questionable and intellectually dishonest.

[@cosmonaut9540]

Or they think that an argument for potentiality is far too dumb to be real, and Gohan can’t possibly be that dumb. They gave him the benefit of the doubt and look where that got them, comments like yours.

[@jonammons5882]

How do you compare the harm of eliminating the future of a potential life to the harm of forcing someone to carry a child to term. How about the harm of placing another child in foster care or razing a child you do not want. What about the potential harm that unwanted child may do to society as a whole? This argument seems incredibly myopic.

[@artistryartistry7239]

@@cosmonaut9540 There's nothing dumb about his argument. Or do you consider anything you disagree with "dumb?" And don't dodge the question. What, literally, makes the argument stupid/dumb/nonsensical? For the record I consider your "argument" just as asinine. And I'm giving you more credit than you're due by even calling it an argument.

[@Whiskey.T.Foxtrot]

OMG. You COMPLETELY ignore the consequences of pregnancy on the mother. I've had two children with my wife and this this woo-woo romantic clap trap about pregnancy is such annoying, ignorant bullshit it makes me want to puke. Pregnancy is rough under the the most ideal of conditions. Men need to STFU if they think otherwise.

[@artistryartistry7239]

@@jonammons5882 I'm not getting into this debate with you. My comment was about the showrunners.

[@Call-me-Jester]

Killing the unborn without good reason is the moral evil of our time.

[@benf6822]

Eliminating the very concept of equal human rights is worse.

[@TheSnoeedog]

I'd say it's trumped by the vapid parroting of right wing bumper stickers; these are the same people who don't think before voting. How about instead of regurgitating a talking PRATT, you apply your own intellect to the issue and either get on board or formulate a coherent argument. You might have well have said "the persistence of starvation in the third world, without good reason is the moral evil of our time." At least then you would have added something meaningful with your baseless assertion which *AGAIN* is a *POINT REFUTED A THOUSAND TIMES* ...how do these morons dress themselves?

[@TheSnoeedog]

@@benf6822 I'm still a bit of an out of date dinosaur...if it's not apparent from the order it presents in, my comment below(?) about vapid parroting is directed directly at Kai-Bruce Hogle. You get my full endorsement

[@Call-me-Jester]

@@benf6822 What does equal human rights have to do with wantonly killing the unborn? If the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade it wouldn't illegalize abortion. It would basically allow States to contend with the responsibility. If I were you I would stop framing the argument like someone is loosing their right. And how is it an equal right? Do men get to decide what happens to their unborn children? Why should only women have the right to decide what happens to another person's life. Their body, their choice? I find the argument absurd, but if you think its compelling let me give it a go: babie's body, babies choice. Finaly, if your worried about the removal of rights, how about the the right to life? Why aren't you at all concerned for the unborn's right to life?

[@foxtrotrx]

abortion isn't killing without good reason. The point of abortion is the good reason. What were your favorite experiences when you were unborn? your favorite feelings and thoughts?

[@RogueBurn]

I feel that abortion should not be a form of birth control. I feel even more strongly that the people and Government should not make laws for a woman's body, either. Allow an abortion especially if the possibility of it harming the mother.

[@jonammons5882]

The percentage of people that use abortion as birth control is so low its not really worth discussing.

[@artistryartistry7239]

@@jonammons5882 What percentage would that be? And why should anyone care what you consider worth discussing?

[@jonammons5882]

@@artistryartistry7239 You are just swinging wild huh? This is a common anti-abortion talking point. No one has actual statistics on something like this but the fact is, abortions suck. The physical tole they take on your body is very unpleasant, they can also be costly so most people try to avoid them. Even "plan B" causes bad cramping and in some cases bleeding and those are just the common side effects. I am sure there are some incredibly irresponsible people out there that do not care about their health and are willing to suffer allot later but most people like to avoid things like that. This is like saying we should not have car insurance because some people cause car crashes to get off. Yes those people exist but we make rules for the good of most people, not to punish the few irresponsible ones.

[@AlexPBenton]

I’m very close to agreeing completely with you, with the only difference being that I would not allow abortion *except* if there is a strong likelihood of the mother being severely harmed or killed.

[@alicelaybourne1620]

@@AlexPBenton How about an 11 year old that was raped and is now pregnant. Abortion Acceptable?

[@andrewfairborn6762]

Texans, am a right