Devan-MI | Proof Is Handywork, God Is Mechanic | Talk Heathen 06.24

[@andreasplosky8516]

Devan is one of those people who thinks, that when he answers "god" to any question, he has said something meaningful.

[@christopherbrzezinski1743]

Might as well just say because magic.

[@wabbajack2]

Before I watch the video, I'm predicting it's full of deepities.

[@onlychangeiscertain]

“Look at the trees, the birds, the moon, ...” - amazing new argument.

[@AngieBaby666]

The Moon controlling the tides a miracle? I thought it was gravity. Thanks Devan for setting me straight.

[@Captain-Cosmo]

There is a certain irony knowing that, if the caller could travel back to the time of the bible, he could have, himself, used everyday technology to completely convince those people that HE was, in fact, a god!

[@Paranitis]

I dunno if Devan would have the tools to convince anyone of anything.

[@lulolie]

​@@Paranitishey, bad arguments can convince people too. I mean, look at the Devan

[@cmlacosta]

This is the typical "god-of-the-gaps" fallacy, where things we don't know, it must be god then...

[@FourDeuce01]

Hey, it’s not the poor religious apologists’ fault that they can’t find any good evidence for their imaginary gods. It is their fault that they continue to believe in them anyway.😜

[@gazza595]

God of the gaps + personal incredulity = NOTHING. If you had presented his car with the key to a Neolithic man he probably would have thought it was a god, it doesn't help his argument at all.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

Also an Argument from ignorance

[@jonsmith7659]

At the end of the day, this is the only argument they have. No tangible evidence? Insert god. Every single time. It’s pathetic already.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

@@jonsmith7659 Couldn't agree more Jon. It really is hard to fathom why and how so many people still think superstition and woo woo is reality. It's just absurd.

[@callmeflexplays]

Devin was too busy talking halfway through each of the host sentences to even actually hear and understand their points.

[@josephmurphy7522]

A common trait among theist callers.

[@francelaferriere6106]

Yeah, if he could just shut up and listen for a change. Quite frustrating.

[@luckyb4541]

Most theists don’t call in to listen to a word , they call in to proselytize and preach .

[@wabbajack2]

Basically every TH or TAE caller.

[@HIIIBEAR]

Jmike always gets to the root of the problem

[@eminence_front6043]

At one time we didn't understand nuclear energy.....therefore god.

[@Uctus8]

damn, the patience these two have...

[@dhwyll]

The water, the tide-it comes in and it goes out. It always goes in, then it goes out. … You can't explain that. You can't explain it. Yes, we can.

[@UnlimitedLives1960]

"Never a miscommunication"

[@williamtarry4405]

Theists can say that the universe "was created by the god I believe in" all they want. Those claims need to be backed up by evidence for them to be anything other than unfounded claims. The time to believe in something is when there is evidence/scientific evidence supporting it existing. I've asked every theist with whom I've interacted for their evidence to support the existence of a god. So far, they've only offered up opinions and unfounded claims, but no actual evidence/scientific evidence.

[@letusdebatenow]

Why do these lines sound so familiar 🤔 😆

[@williamtarry4405]

@@letusdebatenow probably from my many posts on ACA & TH videos? :D Have a good day!

[@WhoThisMonkey]

Because they are pretty much the same lines that are screamed by anyone on the rational side of this debate. The problem is, theists just either don't listen, don't want to listen, or don't ever go looking for these sort of comments in the first place.

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

Appealing to design implies that god needed to design anything. My God is more impressive than that, he just sneezed one day and the whole universe came out, no need to tinker or fine tune anything, that's how powerful he is. I don't actually believe in that btw, it's just pointing out that in theory I shouldn't be able to describe a more powerful and impressive being than the supposed maximally powerful and impressive being.

[@jbibro]

“We don’t have to agree on everything. That’s the beauty of America.“ - Devan 🤔

[@ExcelsiorUnltd]

Hey Devan, I’ve lost 60% of my hearing, but at least I try to actually listen

[@trustprojects]

It’s always bizarre to hear someone assert that scientific principles that aren’t 100% proven but do have a lot of evidence to support them are garbage - then immediately claiming something entirely unproven is a better answer. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[@The5armdamput33]

I'm pretty sure Sonic the Hedgehog used the chaos emeralds to create the universe... - Don't think so? Prove me wrong...

[@sparki9085]

14:25 "we each have our own reality, we just don't agree on reality" No, there's only one reality, it's not a difference of opinion

[@oldmanaz.6811]

I do know what makes my combustion engine run and I'm not a mechanic. So can I learn God magic? Oh please say yes!

[@JustAMagicDuck]

A minute in and i already know this guy’s entire argument. The hosts could probably do both sides of this watchmaker, argument from incredulity, “look at the trees” BS without the caller. Kudos to them for having the patience to deal with these unoriginal thoughts.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

07:01 Eggs. Both the general egg form, and the chicken egg. The two birds that were hybridized to form the modern chicken were not themselves quite chickens in a sort of similar way that neither a horse nor a donkey are quite a mule, and neither of the two parent species of an orange are quite an orange.

[@sparki9085]

"god exists because the bible says so and i dont know literally everything" - Devan, somewhere in his meandering rambling

[@lopakaholmberg]

Just so happened to pick up a bible, that he was already in possession of, that convinced him of god while he was experiencing the hardship god created for him

[@jonammons5882]

If you believe in evolution the egg came first. Proto-chicken -1 laid an egg and a chicken hatched out of it. Before that Proto-chicken -2 laid and egg and proto-chicken -1 hatched out of it. And so on...

[@sparki9085]

11:25 "science could be wrong, therefore god!"

[@chudleyflusher7132]

Michigan is quickly becoming another Tennessee. It’s a real shame.

[@timo5601]

God of the Pascal’s Design and Ignorantly Feels Good Fallacy

[@henrikrolfsen584]

Maybe Gravity proves that Gravity Pixies exist. Human History is full of gods, but Gravity Pixies are seldom mentioned.

[@rikorobinson]

I'm a lifelong Atheist that has never believed in anything superstitious a day in my life. Yet I have stories that have profoundly affected my life. I don't need to believe they actually happened for them to do so. That shit is so weird to me....

[@beaconeersofthesevenmaps3467]

- what time is it? - God!

[@osobaum]

Teach your kids critical thinking folks!

[@ready1fire1aim1]

0D (point): One with everything; "point" with "0". 1D (Line): Length 2D (Plane): L + Width. A group of Line. It consists of all the possible states of a Line. 3D (Form): L/W + Depth. A set of all possible Planes in any form, state, area, etc; snapshot of "now". 4D (Substance): L/W/D + Time. A chronology of "nows" (see 4D quaternion stereographic) 5D (Space-time): In short, space-time would contain the entire history of reality, with each past, present or future event occupying a clearly determined place in it, from the very beginning and for ever. The past would therefore still exist, just as the future already exists, but somewhere other than where we are now present.

[@stevencahn4019]

While they were talking about "Red cars" a red car went by me. All praise unto the red car fairy!

[@cascadecommunitywatch5181]

Same! I pulled in behind 2 red cars at the bank drive thru just as he mentioned it. It’s a miracle!… also sadly discovered my bank account was in the red…

[@brucewilliams4152]

Well Devon the egg came long before the chicken, reptiles evolved eggs. About 350million before the chicken

[@macdougdoug]

For anyone interested, our world has been upended : scientists have determined that the chicken came first. There is a paper on this subject. (unfortunately, I cannot say any more on this issue, as I didn't understand the paper)

[@jensraab2902]

Chickens (as well as all other birds) are dinosaurs*. The animals chickens evolved from, who lived many millions years prior to the first bird, already laid eggs. So eggs, most definitely, came first. By a long, and I mean a really long, shot. * I'm not joking, by the way; birds are dinosaurs because they are in the dinosaur clade. Just as humans are apes and also monkey because we are in the ape and monkey clades.

[@tan_x_dx]

It really bugs me the way theists miss completely obvious alternatives to the questions of "how did it all happen?" One obvious alternative would be: this universe was created by multiple intelligent entities all working together as a team. Whenever the subject of the complexity of the universe arises, theists seem to utterly forget that teamwork is a concept. It is possible for entities to work together to create a complex system such as our universe. But these theists can't seem to grasp that notion. Instead they all think that there is a single entity who is responsible for everything, even though there is nothing in this universe which actually suggests that! Monotheism is an unquestioned axiom, when in actuality it needs to be demonstrated, rather than assumed. After all, if it turns out that this universe was created by multiple intelligent entities, then all monotheistic religions are simply wrong. Even the kalam cosmological argument fails to demonstrate monotheism! Theists always make the jump to assert that only a single entity was responsible even though that need not be the case!

[@walnutoil100]

Present evidence any of those alleged alternatives are true in reality. Atheism is an unquestioned axiom, when in actuality it needs to be demonstrated, rather than assumed.

[@michellebrown4903]

Oh , it's you again . God squad general . Why does Atheism " Need to be demonstrated"?? All Atheism is ..... is a lack of belief in a god or gods . You are making the claim . You demonstrate your god to the rest of us . None of you has ever been able to do that . " But the bible says " is not a demonstration of anything.

[@elmolewis9123]

@@walnutoil100 Wrong. Theists make the claim. Atheists are asking for verifiable evidence of those claims. Remarkable claims require remarkable evidence.

[@tan_x_dx]

@@walnutoil100 I notice you've not actually addressed my points in any meaningful way other than "Nuh uh! No you!" Do you have anything useful to add to the conversation? Do you ever?

[@rageofheaven]

I don't believe in any god. There, atheism has been demonstrated

[@HotelierNYC]

Let's not be too harsh on Devan. Not everyone is equipped to have these kinds of conversations.

[@terryfall8915]

A myth is a fixed way of looking at the world, which cannot be destroyed because, looked at through the myth, all evidence supports the myth. -- Edward De Bono, PO: Beyond Yes And No

[@The5armdamput33]

Looks at the space...

[@drg8687]

Theist: We all got to die someday. Atheist: Yup. Thiest: Don't you want to do right by my imaginary friend before you go? Atheist: Nope.

[@wabbajack2]

My imaginary friend only rewards skeptics. All religios get obliterated. It's exactly as good an argument for determining whether one should believe or not.

[@TomByron-h7s]

I agree about science being the study of God's handywork. The Earth is billions of years old. The materials were always there. Gifted scientists have unearthed the process. It's an argument of the chicken or the egg

[@davegaskell7680]

The conflict in the gospels between Jesus being born in census times and in Herod's reign is relatively easy for a literalist believer to address - they would just say that the historical research that places these events at different times must be wrong. That is, a believer doesn't have to choose which gospel they think is more likely to be correct, they would simply say that both are and it is our historical research that is mistaken.

[@web4639]

My favorite response to the "chicken and the egg" "problem": which came first- writing in Spanish or speaking in Spanish?

[@roberthamilton9154]

The egg came first. Hundreds of millions of years before. No need for Spanish

[@jonammons5882]

If you believe in evolution the egg came first. Proto-chicken -1 laid an egg and a chicken hatched out of it. Before that Proto-chicken -2 laid and egg and proto-chicken -1 hatched out of it. And so on...

[@vidarthorsby2052]

Depends on defenition off egg. Eggs have been around for a long time. I mean, even humans have eggs. If they mean chicken egg spesifically then the proto chicken would have the egg before it is fertelised and make the first chicken egg. (The hatchling would be the first chicken. There is a semantic argument it would not be a chicken egg before a chicken was in it. (Or after a chicken has laid it.) But that is semantics.)

[@conradlorgar5508]

@@jonammons5882 problem is there is no clear line of here's a chicken and heres a proto chicken

[@jonammons5882]

@@conradlorgar5508 not right now but if you believe in the theory of evolution we can deduce that is how it happened. Of course the chicken is still evolving today it just hasn't evolved in such a way that we're calling it another species.

[@GRDwashere]

like, yeah like, and like, just like, you know like, and like....

[@lilmsgs]

I thought they solved the question, chicken egg.

[@johnniehouston1816]

I love the Jewish/Christian time line of the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Wouldn't that be around Bronze age.

[@sparki9085]

It's just god of the gaps. The caller doesn't know everything, therefore god.

[@ahh_yes_mr_bax]

While I appreciate polite convo it boils my blood to hear people just let deflections, pivots, and assertions go on and twist into more nonsense. Normally like you guys but not together. Someone needs to hold the caller to an flipping idea pr assertion.

[@grantm6514]

And when caller repeatedly talks over hosts someone needs to say "Stop!" like Matt Dillahunty does, or "I'm still talking" like Dave Warnock does, otherwise he'll just keep doing it.

[@a1612]

totally agree. most theist arguments are the same and no matter how many times this show has addressed these nonsense arguments they keep on doing it. the ontological argument, kalaam, Devine authority we've heard all those so just tell them to come up with something else. or goodbye

[@BaronVonQuiply]

This video is compelling evidence that the Sabbath is not Sunday as even Christ himself is in casual dress, hanging out on the internet.

[@taurculh69]

Devan: "you know like, THINGS, you know" - I don't think if that is how you are going to start a conversation you should call a radio show. You will either sound fake, or high. I'm going with fake.

[@michaeldavis6473]

What; implies a thing. Why; implies a reason. What something is comprised of is not Why it exists. Cars are made of metal(what), but that’s not the reason(why) they exist. Why are the Smurf’s blue? We don’t care about WHAT color pencil was used. Why is the sky blue? I’m not asking for What ingredients it’s made of, I need WHY.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

The worst argument from ignorance and incredulity.

[@sparki9085]

Why are gods miracles always "the moon and galaxies" and not cancer and SIDS?

[@deeactive1329]

I don't understand these types of people. Why stop at God if you don't know why things are, why not say why God. It's silly to stop at that.

[@sparki9085]

I wonder what the caller actually knows ...

[@joenalaska]

You guys know you can call bullshit right? You don’t have to kid glove, dance around and entertain every batshit crazy thing a caller says…. This is one of those calls where I think a little stronger approach would have been a lot more productive. At least it would have made me less likely to want to claw my eardrums out listening to godtoker420 drone on about his “it’s just so far out man!” theories…

[@billmcdonald4335]

Soo. . . God was part of Mike's band? No listing for any God in the Wiki entry - and the Mechanics were a pretty big band.

[@brucebaker810]

But were the Mechanics bigger than Jesus? Were they bigger than 50' Jesus?

[@billmcdonald4335]

@@brucebaker810 In their day - yes. They were everywhere! Bigger than five-hunnert-eleventeen Jesuses - Jesi? - whatever. They were bigly yuge.

[@brucebaker810]

@@billmcdonald4335 I think most of us are bigger than Jesus. He was prolly 5' 2" tops.

[@brucebaker810]

@@billmcdonald4335 The were Bigly Yuge. But they changed to The Mechanics with the advent of the Mikesiah. Mike and The Bigly Yuge just didn't work. But there weren';t as many of The Living Years as they'd hoped. Quite a few Struggling Years. Then the Dying Years. Now they're on the nostalgia circuit. The Cemetary Ears.

[@dhwyll]

Wait...you had the bible in your bag already? Then you were already a believer. Go back further to what led you to believe such that you would have a bible in the first place?

[@G_Demolished]

I’m not a believer and I have a Bible. Mine is shelved next to H.P. Lovecraft but it is there.

[@dhwyll]

@@G_Demolished Having one is not the same as carrying it and with you. He was already a believer. What was it that made him carry it around with him?

[@kellymestas9709]

What the hell is UAP

[@dhwyll]

"Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon." It's the new way of saying, "UFO."

[@mjc8281]

I like the key in the car analogy..... so let me run with it like this lets give everyone in the US a car key to start the lucky car.... you have a 1 in 330 million chance, but the key part of that is the 1 someone will win it. The meaning of life is like that we have won the car and are sat in it trying to figure out why us? Humans look for patterns, we aren't crazy about random events(which is why conspiracy theories are popular). Now it could be that god REALLY HATES the other 330m people.....or it could be luck

[@ronhansen8471]

Your analogy is flawed. Look at the odds for a simple protein to have formed by itself.

[@mjc8281]

Actually you are making my point..... If your argument is "look at the odds" the one point of general agreement we can have is that we are here(I know there are some viewpoints that would argue that). Now it could be there is a designer or indeed it could be its down to chance and there still is a designer or... it's just luck and there is no designer or presence isn't really conclusive to any of the positions without further evidence.

[@gregoryh9442]

It really isn’t that complicated Devan

[@michaelm8529]

If the world was equated to a car built by God with us as the intended as the user, it would be the shittest car on the market. Imagine if in 2011 your car just said fuck the Japanese, took control and just started killing. It doesn't come with any logos or markings but if you don't say hail Elon every time you drive, it shoves you in the boot and cranks the heating forever. You didn't even consent to having this car in the first place you just have to say it probably knows better than you about killing the Japanese anyway and hope it doesn't turn on you. But it has 4 wheels so clearly it loves you

[@ready1fire1aim1]

What are metaphysical topics? Topics of metaphysical investigation include existence (genesis to exodus), objects and their properties (0D-5D, conceivably), 3D space and 4D "quaternion stereographic" time, cause and effect ☯️, and possibility (over time as entelechy). Metaphysics is considered one of the four main branches of philosophy, along with epistemology, logic, and ethics. Does time exist without space? (4D) Time is as (3D) space is - part of a reference frame "quaternion stereographic" in which in ordered sequence you can touch, throw and eat apples. (4D) Time (concept) cannot exist without (3D) space (area/body) and the existence of time does require energy. What is space-time (5D)? In short, (5D) space-time would contain the entire history of reality, with each past, present or future event occupying a clearly determined place in it, from the very beginning and for ever. The past would therefore still exist, just as the future already exists, but somewhere other than where we are now present. Is time a platonic concept? Plato clearly says that time is the wanderings of these bodies (forms/areas) - their movement (4D quaternion stereographic affectation; element of time ➡️) - and not a kind of number that measures such movement. (So, metaphysical) For Plato, time just is celestial motion. Note that time applies, strictly speaking, only to the realm of becoming (4D flow of time ➡️). (3D is frozen in time).

[@ronhansen8471]

With all your biased scientific theory tell us where life came from?

[@gullyfoyle3253]

Your god’s giving handy’s?

[@PlowenYourMommy]

He/him... So Devan is a biological male.

[@stevesinner3501]

constitutive??? constantly coming up with new meanings dude. ughhhhhhh

[@salescamilla8579]

You guys need Jesus fr fr

[@legionleschyzophrene4929]

If he showed himself that'd be a first

[@wabbajack2]

Who else is gonna pick tomatoes? Fr.

[@salescamilla8579]

All yall need to repent idk why yall so hateful

[@carlosibarra4041]

REPENT! GOD'S JUDGEMENT IS COMING!

[@wabbajack2]

I'll save you from judgment for $1000. Just take it on faith.

[@carlosibarra4041]

@@wabbajack2 I'LL TAKE AND SENT IT. BUT THERE IS A PROBLEM, YOU'RE WON'T SENT IT, BECAUSE YOU'RE A FAKE. YOU'RE LYING! REPENT! BELIEVE ON THE SAVING GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. ETERNAL LIFE IS ( IN) JESUS CHRIST. IT'S NOT A( IN) RELIGION, WORKS, TEMPLE, CHURCH, OR BEING A GOOD, INTELLECTUAL PERSON. ROMANS 6:23, 1 CORINTHIANS 15:1-4, 1 JOHN 5:20, 1 JOHN 5:11, ACTS 4:12