Going Rogue: Chatting to Louise Sugden

[@moniterlizard07]

Here is a Duncan rumor. He got into a fight in the parking lot in fall because some one had a heavy jacket on and we all know you should wear 2 thin coats.

[@RosarioAFK]

I cant believe the reason they stopped showing faces was because all painters were showing up with black eyes from the fight club in the car park. 😂

[@thepaintingphase]

😂😂😂

[@majmellow]

The first rule of warhammer fight club is we don't talk about warhammer fight club 😊

[@colonel149th-dkok4]

🤣🤣🤣

[@terraneaux]

Were they all losing to the production staff?

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

Can we petition to have Louise on as a semi-regular guest? Because she is a JOY to listen to and her pure enthusiasm for the hobby shines through in everything she does.

[@AlexisGraf]

Oh please do this! My favorite episode so far.

[@YaBoiVD]

The whole reason I'm a fan of Louise is her unbridled, borderline manic excitement when she talk about goblins

[@Sammo212]

Louise is probably the most positive, bubbly person in the hobby; its impossible to not be happy when watching or listening to anything with her in it.

[@aelminiatures]

and pure Chaos in every podcast shes been in 🤣

[@andywise4354]

She’s the only KZbinr in the hobby that my partner positively enjoys watching. Louise is an absolute superstar.

[@BeforeThisNovember]

And irrelevantly but she’s beautiful too

[@esaedvik]

I honestly can't even imagine how GW let her leave. Seems their higher-ups don't understand creatives _at all_, which is so weird for a company that's been around for so long. Like who wouldn't want to be in a hobby with someone who has such absolutely unbridled joy for what she does...all the time. Her streams are just an injection of energy. Glad she wasn't lost from the hobby.

[@BeforeThisNovember]

@@TJ-zs3vx yeah calling an unconventional looking woman “beautiful” is super thirsty, got me

[@squishymusic9723]

Two and half hours of Sugs and Peachy?! It is a gift

[@camdavbax]

... And Patrick's there too 😛

[@squishymusic9723]

@@camdavbax Yh ... But his cuticles need work 😜

[@adamgill4623]

A gift to the foes of Mordor.

[@tomlockgriffiths4840]

Peachy and Sugs should have their own show. Brilliant to hear from them both.

[@squishymusic9723]

@@tomlockgriffiths4840 The Rogue Phase

[@miniwargaming]

Louise!!!! I love this. Absolutely unapologetically ENTHUSIASTIC and POSITIVE! You are amazing Sugs ❤ Keep being the incredible YOU that you are. The hobby experience is elevated by having you in it!

[@TabletopTime]

What a great and insightful chat - Well done team!

[@thepaintingphase]

Cheers Guys. We love your stuff

[@Character_Building89]

Best takeaway from this is that you have all found self confidence and passion from the channels. You bring alot of joy to your viewers with it. Respect.

[@thepaintingphase]

😍😍😍

[@Vorpal_Wit]

I'm 53. I've been using the "slap-chop" technique off and on for most of my life - I am personally happy that someone finally nailed an actual name to it. We can all now reference a set of techniques, and everyone immediately knows what we are all talking about. Outstanding.

[@martinjrgensen8234]

This has been hugely anticipated. Louise is an absolute gem. Imagine having such a positive, vibrant person working for you, who is unabashedly enthusiastic and then treating her the way the did.

[@thepaintingphase]

Crazy…..utter craziness!

[@CalAndAly]

Just atrocious! She deserves so much more! Glad yall are her are doing your own thing and happier for it!

[@nathanlovin]

Gosh. Hearing Louise talk about leaving GW really resonated with me. It’s sounds similar to leaving academia and a half written PhD. Something that I loved and had always wanted, but was killing me in the process bc of the people and structures involved. Great chat y’all - continue to love these broad ranging conversations with amazing folks!

[@RichDoesGames]

14k for a store manager job is wild - no wonder they don't advertise salaries. I'm so happy for all you guys for moving onto bigger and better things

[@niklas3947]

The hobby needs more people like Louise. Not just as content creators, but as members of the community, it makes it a so much more welcoming and positive space.

[@damswedon]

It good timing on Louise’s story about not being allowed to use UHU glue because in the recent White Dwarf (492) they use Bostik glue to add Tyranid slime to some scenery.

[@bat33.12]

Forge World had all sorts of other companies products including paints in the Masterclass books. Louise's story about using vellejo paint at an event is the same as when Phil Stuchinskas was working for FW at Games Day and had all his non GW paints on show while doing a demo and a manager asked him to stop using them and he just put them under the table out of sight and carried on.

[@zosoknight]

1:34:49 The "some people have it worse" logic is actively exploited by unethical employers to manipulate workers into accepting inequitable pay rates or wages that have stagnated while CEO rates and/or company profits have increased. It's easy to internalize and is also actively used to foment the attitude that workers don't deserve better pay when the "some people" collectively bargain for better/comparable pay rates. It's never healthy to excuse abusive behavior just because "some people have it worse."

[@niklas3947]

I feel this is one of the single most important mental hurdles people need to overcome in basically any workplace. We're in a bad place when employers don't even have to actively do anything anymore for people to just accept their lot just because they feel it could be worse. Sure, there's always someone worse off than you, but that if X is less shit than Y it's not automatically good. Or even adequate. Just less shit.

[@XX-jn8co]

Same with not declaring salary bands; the idea is to get you to lowball yourself.

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

Some people may have it worse, but that doesn't mean we should have it as bad/hard as they do.

[@aeow8859]

I always think the same when people say " oh youre lucky to have a job" Why would I consider myself lucky to have spent 15+ years in education, to get up to go to work for sombody for 40 hours a week so they can pay me the money they agreed to give me" xD

[@vc7526]

counter argument: "Some people have it better"

[@RyanCleven]

More of these please! The chemistry between the three of them is fantastic!

[@AJ_Battle]

Your friendship is lovely to see. This is the reason I'm in this hobby

[@Phaedrus2711]

Recently, I have become totally obsessed with Louise’s work. Her models always look amazing she’s the queen of bright colours and smooth paint jobs.

[@ironbomb6753]

Same. She is so energetic and enthusiastic about the hobby. I must get some of her models. 👍

[@kevoreilly6557]

What two great content providers!! How GW let these two leave is beyond me … the chemistry !!!

[@koelkast9]

If gw had half a brain and even some slight insight into the community, this would have been their podcast

[@AGMiniatures]

teaching kids to paint minis is so rewarding. i did that for my sons school class and the results were amazing.

[@ernstbergerbrent]

Louise's approach to teaching 5 year olds to paint by helping them tell a story with paint was very creative. Im gonna try that approach when teaching my youngest son to paint. Sounds like she could have a career as an art teacher if she wanted.

[@almost_zab]

Her enthusiasm is infectious, and dangerous. She did that cloth goblins video and I went to the site. I was like so cute, but I don't need more minis... WHY AM I ADDING TO CART?! 🤣🤣

[@thepaintingphase]

😂😂😂 same lol

[@decokane1019]

Same.

[@warsmithkorath5882]

Just love how infectious Sug’s enthusiasm is

[@CallumPaints]

What an excellent chat! Thank you so much for sharing your salaries and experiences. It's so incredibly important in all fields, but particularly in our industry where passion can be leveraged against the individual. Loving the content folks!

[@AVS_uk]

The sooner you all admit that Duncan was fired for punching a baby squig in the car park, and Peachy was fired later when it came out that he BBQ'd the remains, and Louise later still when she admitted trying some and liking it - the sooner you can do apology videos, and we can all move on. PS: Patrick was fired when it turned out he provided the BBQ sauce... and punched a kitten

[@chad534]

So they ate Timothy's father...scary times.

[@theconcubin3]

Sadhuuuu😂

[@bat33.12]

Louise was on a hit list at GW the moment she met Rob the Honest Wargamer, the moment he names an army as his favourite GW nerfs it. They hate him 😉

[@Izayoink_Saccuy]

The squig puncher

[@richardmarriott-smith9517]

Great video. You can see what a great relationship they have. Lovely people.

[@danberner]

2 hours and a half of Peachy AND Louise? just like the old days on Twitch!

[@thepaintingphase]

😂😂😂 yep nothing changes lol

[@BadgerLovingFluffster]

What a lovely chat - made my Wednesday :) p.s. Juan Hidalgo was the fella who did the video about applying to paint at Geedubs.

[@Nick-the-Squig]

That was a super fun pod cast to see. Throughly enjoyed the positiveness flowing here. So many laughs and smiles... and obscure conversation. Brilliant!

[@verigone2677]

Louise, the most adorable person in all of hobby Internet! Love to see you all talking together.

[@niklas3947]

I just got to the part about the salaries, and I literally spat my drink out when I heard the numbers. Calling that undervalued is the understatement of the century. That's, frankly, a disgrace.

[@BB-pn2qv]

It really is

[@equos5060]

Wait.... Peachy got 26 thousand pounds? Like, monthly?

[@niklas3947]

@@equos5060 It seems fairly obvious that that's yearly, not monthly.

[@equos5060]

​@@niklas3947I don't live in uk so I wasn't sure. That's crazy low amount....

[@niklas3947]

@@equos5060 I mean, with salaries it's kinda universally implied that it's the yearly total before taxes. Basically they way it's given in the contract most of the time. At least here in Europe that seems to be the norm. Definitely seems pretty low for a job that requires no small amount of skill and talent, never mind that Peachy used to be a manager and spent quite a long time with the company. Never mind Louise earning what she earned. Obviously it's harder to quantify the value of something that is of a more artistic nature, but based on the skillset and talent required, let alone the fact that both of them eventually ended up presenting and generating positive PR for the company (because let's be honest, who could look at Peachy or Sugs and not have a positive impression of them). Pay isn't everything, but it sure is part of showing an employee that you value their work and their efforts, and while I can understand the philosophy of wanting people who are passionate, it's pretty shitty to lowball them on the money side. Also not necessarily a smart move for the company in the long term, because the more of the old guard leave for whatever reasons, the more risks you take in hiring new people that may not being the same energy, personality and passion to the company. If you want good people, you gotta pay them accordingly.

[@andrewramsay3177]

It's like the mini painting version of The Life of Brian Peachy : "I'm not Duncan" Louise : "I'm not Duncan" Monty Python : "I'm not Duncan and neither is my wife"

[@colbillington]

He's not Duncan, he's a very naughty boy

[@Durkan34]

I just think we should skip straight to promoting Louise to “National treasure” status.

[@TheArchmike]

Duncan is obviously far too famous to associate himself with the proletariat anymore 🧐

[@Kerath]

It’s okay to go your own way.

[@vee_tinymoose]

😂

[@Iron_Wyvern]

Do Duncan and Peachy have beef?

[@danberner]

@@Iron_Wyvern if they had beef, it was in the parking lot.

[@nofuture92]

Absolute SAGE comment, I’m dead 🤣🤣🤣

[@astrozombiac3535]

Louise's snort is very endearing. Also, she should call her Patreons Sug's Thugs

[@lewis3250]

That pay talk was actually shocking to me! Good for you guys for going your own path, you're all worth so much more!

[@Vin_Venture896]

Louise honestly feels like the unofficial 4th Host of this podcast. I know it’s absolutely not practical but man the weekly discussions and complete chaos would be fantastic 😂

[@meralda5582]

I fall for Louise the first time I see her in the Blackstone Fortress video and she seem so lovely and she paint so well. Super fun to see all of you having fun!

[@jonesdan85]

Louise is ace, simple as that. A breath of fresh air.

[@Paranormal-Stupidity]

DUNCAN! Do you deny these allegations? Show yourself. Defend your reputation!!!

[@U2QuoZepplin]

I feel like I need to follow this up with the rest of the quote from 'Star Trek IV The Voyage home,' where The Federation are debating the events of the previous movie, 'Search for Spock,' The Klingon Ambassador is defending his position against the case made by Mister Spock's Daddy ,saying "We deny nothing. We demand the preservation of our race...." to which Sarek (Spock's Dad,) counters saying "Do you deny Murder?" (Talking about Admiral Kirk's son David). Anyway I'm getting further and further from your point 😂🤔😖

[@shorelessskies]

Silence is compliance. We see you, Rhodes.

[@CalAndAly]

God Louise is just such an inspiration and salt of the earth human. Any time I’m feeling down and watch her vids, it absolutely lifts my spirits. What a light for us in this hobby and for nerdy kind!

[@krzysztofmathews738]

This is a great conversation! I'm really enjoying the real sense of good friends talking that comes through in this video. You folks have the best guests!

[@ABemis]

Louise is always a great laugh, and her creativity is marvellous Also the Lousie & Rob power couple is the cutest

[@aworldeater7989]

Big shout out to a fellow ex-GW Aberdeen frequenter. She always won armies on parade with amazing pieces. Also an awesome person.

[@carlstanford7607]

2 and a half hours of positivity, fun, lovely people and biscuits. Fantastic!

[@jaysunbodaysun3302]

Employers need to realize that fine arts are a trade. Many people go to school for many years to learn a sellable skill. Just like carpenters, mechanics, welders and electricians. You would never tell any of these people that they are "privileged " to be able to do the job they do and get paid the wages they do. They worked for it. Painters and sculptors are equally skilled. Artists would benefit by were they to unionize. That's a hard pill to swallow, but unions have aided many trades fighting for fair and equitable pay.

[@nrgspike]

56:22 It's still my hope that somehow, Peachy, Louise, Duncan and Becca can get together to continue the Blackstone Fortress playthrough - hands down the most entertaining thing on Warhammer TV!

[@cedrominiatures9170]

Peachy’s creature feature was the best! I always looked forward to what your imagination would come up with next!!

[@thepaintingphase]

Aww thanks, I thoroughly enjoyed doing those features lol

[@geraldp8022]

Louise is such a positive colourful whirlwind into the grimdark, hope this is the start of a bunch of collabs between the lads and her. 2 and 1/2 hours of the painting phase and Louise, Nice counter to it being monday morning.

[@FacesNBases]

Such a lovely and overdue guest. It really highlights the good times you guys had working together and it was super valid to discuss the things that need improvement at GW. It's great to see everyone absolutely thriving after almost being released from creative captivity and I'm looking forward to all the future content from all parties. Legends.

[@trovarion]

These wages...I knew it was low, but I died a little inside when I heard the numbers...

[@clive_maloney]

It's such a lot of fun listening to all of you. You're really great people and inspiration to so many of us in the hobby. Thank you.

[@zosoknight]

Popped in for Eric's episode and again for Louise. Not super into Warhammer, but always into enthusiastic people discussing things that excite them. Happy to have more fuel for the painting/hobby background podcast feed! My brain keeps seeing Peachy as a British Sean Evans and I'm not sure if that's a positive or negative.

[@benjones9565]

These chats have become my number one painting companion :D Cheers guys keep at it!

[@ArtCoreMinis]

Always a pleasure to dedicate a couple of hours to watch a wild bunch of kind and genuine people contributing to make our hobby a nicer place. Louise has such a beautifully creative spirit. Great episode! 🖤

[@green_manc]

Considering how you were all treated by the "corporate" side and you still love and praise the company in every second breath is a testament to how much passion you all have for the hobby.

[@star_wars_miniatures]

Can every episode just be Peachy and Louise? Love listening to these two talking about our amazing hobby!!

[@thepaintingphase]

Tbh I wish for that too 😂

[@anibalgonzalez7990]

only Peachy and Louise. GIVE ME THE REST OF THE CREW TOO!!!!

[@khromas5392]

How dare you! Geoff and Pat are a delight as well! 😊

[@Khazandar]

Wooooow. #justiceforGeoff !

[@joshuaboyle7585]

What this whole video highlights is what an absolutely massive miss GW had. All they had to do was turn Sugs and Peachy loose to make whatever videos they wanted to make. They would have had hundreds of thousands of followers and millions of views. I'm thrilled they're both doing their own things so well though.

[@adameastment]

Really glad to see you guys discuss salary on this one, it's really refreshing to hear it and to take that taboo away from it.

[@gregtheintense]

What an absolutely fantastic episode. You guys did great. Thank you all.

[@alanbrooks1200]

Genuinely appalled at those salary ranges. That’s honestly shocking for someone who was with the company for so long.

[@tburton86]

Genuinely unreal.

[@BartoszDebski]

I worked with people who earn more and are genuinely less skilled in anything. Really shocked , I was expecting something in the 40s range.

[@OnboardG1]

@@BartoszDebski Until very recently the UK government's scientific research arm paid experienced scientists and engineers 32k with no ability to progress through pay bands. It's distressingly common in UK government and industry to disregard any experience that isn't managing people or budgets when it comes to setting pay scales.

[@bigmerlin3795]

​@@OnboardG1 I'd be less surprised by them canning all research than by them bumping the pay

[@Dwilson1282]

small family business please understand lol

[@RobertUrsell]

Genuinely the time just flew by, didn't realize it at the time. 2 hours later and I thought, dang over already... What a wonderful guest and a very entertaining conversation.

[@Scruffynerfherder10]

2 and a half hours of sugs and peachy, what a way to start the week

[@HtcGuru]

I was secretly wishing for this podcast to happen ever since Louise stopped by the Painting Phase, sometime last year. 10/10 chin wagging... Looking forward to the next one.

[@Sinsabre]

Man... I'd gathered already by what Peachy and Pat has shared that GW is a pretty damn toxic work place already but Suggs sharing her stories just takes it way over the top. And sure... in reality great people work there and it's just "a few bad apples" but the thing is it just takes one rotten apple to ruin a pie.

[@ABemis]

Especially if those rotten apples are managers and can ruin it for the people below them

[@armata_strigoi_0]

Yep, people seem to forget the second part of the idiom - "spoils the bunch". It's not supposed to excuse the "bad apples", it's supposed to be a reminder of the effect they have on everyone else and that you should throw them out lol

[@ernstbergerbrent]

Great episode. It's very clear that you worked together for a while. It's awesome how both of your careers have sorta paralleled each other.

[@dominicmetzger3246]

As a warhammer retailer it's fascinating to hear how frustrating the corporate culture is in from the inside as it's also awful trying to deal with them from the outside.

[@jamescurtis2112]

That was absolutely fabulous. Made me want to paint goblins.

[@pajmage]

Fully agree with your comments about the lack of Salaries on GW's job adverts. In todays age its absolutely stupid.

[@DJRockford83]

Top tip: Only bad employers do that

[@mikewicked.x]

I wonder if it's a regional, or industry thing - most job ads where I'm from, for the industry I work in, do not disclose salary. It's frustrating as hell, but when that was a complaint leveled at GW, it hit different simply because that's how my career has always been...

[@MugenSlayers]

I love this interview. It's great to have all these story about GW and seeing you lot thrive out there.

[@MugenSlayers]

I'm kinda sad some frenchies i know from some years ago are not sharing any of their official miniatures sculpt anymore. And i think thry can't be interviewed too for the podcast. Such a shame.

[@6Stevo]

Hearing Louise talk about leaving a toxic workplace really hit home. I can relate to this bigtime.

[@matheusdiniz6444]

absolutely loved this episode, smiled all the way through! It's just so nice hearing these dear old friends talk so comfortably

[@thepaintingphase]

😍🙏😍

[@ReadyToRole]

THE EPISODE WE'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR! I love Louise and TPP!

[@Hungry_Bert]

Louise is great! I love the genuine friendship that you folk clearly have! Such a fun video to watch 😊

[@jonnypariah1]

Yes, make the Holy Trinity of Peachy, Sughammer and Duncan happen ...

[@curtcleancut]

Another great interview folks! Really love Rouge Hobbies too - You're all doing great things in the community, so please keep up the great work!

[@BadSquiddoGames]

This was awesome! More Louise, More of the Time! She brings much needed pizzazzzzz. And reminds me that it's supposed to be fun! Also would not fancy my chances against her in the car park fight club.

[@leigh_db]

Louise is fantastic. Really funny and just seems like a really nice person. Great episode guys!

[@luisferreira3091]

Great show! Would love to watch a warcry four way with Louise, Rob, Peachy and Jeff. Triumph and treachery rules.

[@melindaphantom9450]

This might be the most relatable couple hours I've spent watching KZbin, y'all are awesome

[@thepaintingphase]

😍👍😍

[@andrewhulse614]

Painting phase has gone rogue

[@84jesterx]

"You have to spend hours alone painting to get attention" Sounds perfect! Though I'm almost 40 years too late lol! I kid. Luckily my wife and I have thoroughly enjoyed this hobby together and discovering wonderful content creators about this, such as you guys & Louise, who want showcase thier passion for it. As well as want to teach us newcomers to it all. Appreciate you guys!

[@euanbeveridge5489]

The idea that Warhammer TV viewers and internet bampots hate on Louise blows my mind. She's adorable and an indispensable member of the hobby community. Keep on being you, Sugs!

[@jameskilts555]

All of you are doing a fantastic job and make a positive space for everyone in the hobby community. Keep being you!

[@MarkOfTzeentch]

This felt so natural and fun.. she'd make a great 4th host *wink wink nudge nudge* Would also love to see you do a collab painting challenge..

[@j_scriv5686]

That was so much fun to watch. You can tell the three of you have real chemistry. We need more of this!

[@OnboardG1]

The "move job to get a pay rise" is 100% an old fashioned British company thing. The Civil Service and public sector are exactly the same.

[@rnp497]

this is some of the most wholesome random wandering conversation that I recall. Great to know there is a Fight Club at GW. Love Rogue Hobbies

[@NapGod]

3k raise in 12 years is criminal. it sounds like GW employees need to organize. solidarity forever.

[@SleepyPsyker]

Pretty common these days.

[@jameshutton3960]

standard in the UK under the current government sadly.

[@ianlancaster4127]

48:20, the "elvis glue" trick is in the most recent white dwarf issue, theres a step by step guide

[@gilesholtby1702]

“Flushed by his own petard” t-shirts when?

[@martintaylor570]

This was amazing, I really can't stress how much I enjoyed the energy in this episode. All good eggs :)

[@thepaintingphase]

Suggs’ energy and enthusiasm is the greatest of gifts, it’s infectious and uplifting 😍😍😍

[@stevenpaxton7331]

How anyone think of Suggs in a bad way just blows my mind.

[@Dartharus]

Really great seeing you guys together again, so much energy pouring through. Obviously you've both got your own projects that demand your attention but would love to see more Rogue Hobbies/The Painting Phase collaborations in the future. (Looking forward to a Willow road fight club video)

[@TooMiniModels]

I think the name Abaddon was taken from the Bible. Revelation 9:11. The destroyer, lord of the abyss. Also, I think the name Sigmar is a reference to Shamgar, who was an old testament judge who fought Philistines instead of Orcs. Also, Kislev is the name of a Hebrew winter month. GW tends to pull names from all over the place, which is why their world feels authentic in my opinion, I think people subconsciously recognize the reference but don't quite know where it is coming from.

[@Saltymeatman]

This episode has been an absolute delight start to finish!

[@StevenRead]

Sugs needs a Pro Acryl signature series!

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

Oh man how awesome would that be??

[@abelhernandez7809]

I have the Ninjon and the Vince ones, I'd totally pre order a Sugs one.

[@BlueDaemonful]

Omg Louise is such a bundle of joy. I love all the energy guys :D I recently just got into Warhammer figurines after my friend has been convincing me for years. I got myself a Belakor and a few chaos space marines. Been the wings on Belakor as I'm listening to your podcast :D

[@unclebones]

What a brilliant video, three old mates chewing the fat, this promotes a positive view of GW staff, it seems that most just love the hobby.

[@LordTairan]

Great video, I always think of questions when watching the videos!