Goku VS Saitama | Has Everything Changed?

[@SethTheProgrammer]

ok for canon in dragon ball, it is never defined as anything specific. it usually is just considered all one in the same. the scan talking about anime / manga canon provided wasn't my translation and isn't considered a valid scan / legit to some people. enjoy regardless though, sorry about that! a lot of people are questioning if saitama was bloodlusted against garou or not. you can debate all you want about that, and while I think you can easily prove he can the term "bloodlusted" can also just be used to mean "going all out" or in this case, beyond his normal max power. whether he was trying to kill garou or not, garou is stated to have reached saitama's power and saitama had to get stronger. kind of stupid i even have to explain that, but some of you guys i see have common sense. much love as for Goku higher dimensional scaling / immeasurable scaling, these are mainly examples I give to show that dragon ball fans could easily try the same wank arguments other fanbases do but don't feel the need to most of the time. I even go over in many videos why I don't agree with it and was mainly explaining that with a similar logic people apply to OPM, Dragon Ball would be a lot more insane as well. even me saying the dragon ball universe is infinite / endless is due to once again, people thinking these terms only apply to their utmost with OPM. Normally I wouldn't grant that terminology for either, and mainly was hammering it home like that as a rhetorical dunk rather than my actual opinion.

[@Jacob_L09]

Based

[@richtheli1266]

Goku mops the floor with Saitama

[@mementomori3665]

A full video just to say nothing changed, poggers.

[@GorgeousHotRat]

Gega chad

[@kingali3058]

Seth reply or I’ll haunt u in ur sleep I would not risk it

[@jesmarkmikesell1957]

Goku is the journey to obtaining strength while Saitama is the journey of finding purpose in it.

[@cathan3015]

Wow didn't even realized It lol So true

[@Anticipatorzzzz]

Couldn't have said it better

[@cathan3015]

@@Anticipatorzzzz what its true saitama is a protagonist from the end put back at the beginning meanhwile goku is just the mc that needs to train hard and become powerfull to defend his uni/family/people he cares

[@mr.allclass1442]

Not bad, never thought of it like that before.

[@dkznikolaj7013]

​@@cathan3015 Idk if that's true. Goku usually just trains to train. It has never been stated that he trains to protect anyone nor even with the assumption that he will need the power to fight anyone. He basically just trains cause that's how he is

[@mikedanielespeja6128]

I think the thing that can be taken from this whole debate is that Saitama's feats look grander at first look simply because Murata's art is that good.

[@tanasodera9865]

This

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

we never saw saitama bleed though, even though serious moon flip makes no sense saitama can still be pushed around due to physics. What i would imagine would happen is that goku goes easy on him to the point that saitama just scales so high that even goku gets overwhelmed.

[@Jollofmuncher2000]

@@MGrey-qb5xz if it was officially written, yeah I guess but it should really be just combat in this case. Whoever wins wins whoever loses loses. Lead the other stuff to fan fictions

[@sasuukekuun.]

@@MGrey-qb5xz He already covered that saitama isn't going to get quadrillions of times stronger in one fight, and your infinite endurance argument makes absolutely no sense. Never been shown to bled and has only been "pushed around" = Infinite endurance is your argument

[@sasuukekuun.]

@@MGrey-qb5xz Literally debunkable by searching up "one punch man chapter 166 saitama is bleeding"

[@smartfella7036]

Powerscalers when they realize neither Goku or Saitamas punches can create universes where their dad is in their lives

[@agilraj1145]

Not even boundless beings can bring back ya dad so what can goku and saitama do

[@kieranfong3178]

Not even speed can surpass their dad's leaving them

[@someguy3334]

Not even The Flash could bring their fathers back using the Speed Force

[@king4gaming311]

@@agilraj1145 Goku can just ask super shenron, and he isn't boundless

[@agilraj1145]

I never said goku was boundless plus not even super shenron has the power to wish you dad who gon for THAT milk

[@RaulTheVoyager97]

Wait, wasn't Saitama technically holding back since he promised the kid he'll bring him back?

[@ikeillue8385]

Not necessarily. He wasn't going lethal, but that doesn't mean he was holding back. He straight up says, with internal dialogue, that he can go all out and Garou will be able to get back up.

[@Bread0Bread]

yup. he got genos' core in his other hand and in order to protect that saitama did hold back

[@provaboth12345]

​@@Bread0Breadit's literally show by the graph of his Powers increasing, that means he wasn't holding back and using all the strenght he had.

[@Bread0Bread]

@@provaboth12345 only because the graph was growing that doesn't mean he wasn't holding back. After growth he didn't go with his full power cause in order to not break the genos' core in his left hand

[@Long-chin-tarnished]

He can just grow to goku level

[@verysuperdave]

Murata’s sense of scale just makes Saitama’s his strength seem so real, whereas with Goku being able to destroy planets/galaxies etc may be canon but the art doesn’t go out of its way to give this sense of awe, and often relies on a character saying “wow! That attack will destroy the earth if it lands!” Obv this isn’t a power scaling issue but story-telling.

[@zjaeriqsanders1731]

This is something that I have always talked about and it’s the number one reason why I hate how much everyone sucks off how powerful goku is. He’s only powerful because the writers say so, not because he’s actually done some crazy insane shit that makes you automatically go “oh shit this guy could literally destroy universes”

[@DanielGomez-xo1sh]

Yeah, like they destroy muntains in their fights and make some earthquakes but nothing more. Also you have the fact that Cell punched Mr. Satan and didn't destroy him at a molecular level

[@pooby_2392]

@@DanielGomez-xo1sh For real. In actual visible animation, saiyan super saiyan blah blah goku, whos a gigajillion times more powerful than his previous self, merely makes a crater in a mountain or something. Honestly Goku wins in actual argument but its just proven so boorishly.

[@jbchasemoney]

You clearly don’t watch dragon ball fights

[@jbchasemoney]

Go watch some fights then come back and delete your comment

[@That_0ne_Dev]

Imagine minding your own business then getting obliterated because some guy a million galaxies away decided to scream

[@robcloberr]

Must suck.

[@gokucool6957]

As some who lived 20 billion light years away and got their galaxy blown up By someone who screamed I can confirm that it sucks

[@lockzy21]

@@gokucool6957 "gokucool69"

[@gokucool6957]

@@lockzy21 inspiration off saitamacool69

[@gokucool6957]

@@lockzy21 also upload more content im interested

[@ynosrage8402]

Seth is literally the most sane person out there when it comes to vs scaling/debating.

[@VladaBB]

Zaelleaz>

[@good8619]

98% of what he said is just common knowladge, or can be reached easily if you just look at the feats. Hmmm Saitama blew up a chunk of the Universe, that's should put him above Cell easily, but not quite BoG lvl, tho he still has room for growth. Here, that's all there is to it.

[@littlechungus4909]

@@VladaBB hes a bum

[@vmonsoon7400]

@@good8619 Except most power scalers don't have common knowledge and can't look at feats and instead assume whatever they see is up to their interpretation so they can downplay it and if you saw something diffrent your wrong and d riding a character.

[@good8619]

@@vmonsoon7400 Yea, it's not like Saitama can't improve anymore lol, people just wanna say he solo's everything for some reason.

[@gonzotown9438]

Murata seems to have as much freedom as he wants to have with the story. He's just smart enough to know to stick to the original story as much as he can.

[@maybeimvel]

ONE* Murata only gave the story a good look by drawing fantastic manga panels for it. ONE made the story, and theres also a webcomic for this which is the original.

[@gonzotown9438]

@@maybeimvel One made the original webcomic. But Murata is about as free as he wants to be with how the story goes. We've even seen Murata change his mind multiple times about how the story will go, like in the PhoenixMan fight or the Garou fight. And now we are going in really different places with the NeoHeroes arc. So, sure One made the original story, but Murata's retelling is able to do its own thing.

[@maybeimvel]

@@gonzotown9438 Oh wait I think I misread your comment. Apologies. And yes, that is true

[@allthingsend6689]

I wouldn't call Saitama bloodlusted. Because the term implies that there is an intention to kill. After the fight Garou asks why Saitama doesn't finish him off, and Saitama answers with something along the lines of Garou still being a human and the fact that he promised Tareo not to kill Garou. So even though Saitama was BIG MAD, I still don't think he even intended to kill Garou at anytime throughout the fight.

[@TCave]

I agree

[@kokozweeb]

Saitama has never killed a human.

[@SenAxel]

He was bloodlusted he just didn’t kill him because of the promise, he would’ve done so otherwise

[@allthingsend6689]

@@SenAxel holding back from killing someone is literally the opposite of bloodlust. Bloodlust implies the intention to kill. Cant be bloodlusted if youre trying not to kill them the entire time.

[@SenAxel]

@@allthingsend6689 what I meant is that he had the intent to kill the whole time until the end (when he beat garou) and realized or remembered his promise

[@justinr.2076]

This Goku guy seems pretty strong, but can he beat goku tho?

[@aprofessionalgamer5355]

No, goku beats Goku, as seen in the goku black saga

[@Weezo523]

From what I’ve seen Goku claps goku

[@DaTiddyKitty]

@Ты клоун and he’s done it twice too

[@Pineapple_Sauce]

It's hard to say but if it were up to me I'd say Goku takes the win

[@AUSr_Strike]

“BuT cAn GoKu ReAd ThE mAnGa” - some OPM fan.

[@twigzm622]

Giving Saitama an opponent he could actually fight his heart out with and get the excitement he wants is enough of a reason for him to grow stronger. I don't think Saitama needs to get angry.

[@indirasrivastava9608]

Emotions just doesn't power up saitma. From a long long time, it's the key to saiyans power up too.

[@devonhenry733]

say if goku and saitama meet, they wouldn’t b enemies but goku would want to see how strong he could get, so In turn goku would gradually go threw all of his forms then would get to a point of where who can grow stronger the fastest

[@ayushdeshmukh284]

Saitama stated that the excitement of what he wants was not actually present at all, and he was disappointed that he lost what he always wanted. Genos's heart thing was what brought back the emotion part of it

[@TahreaGarnett]

@@devonhenry733 that's why people say bloodlusted Goku in most debates

[@damianmcculloch4340]

@@ayushdeshmukh284 he may have been mad but its obvious all he needs for true growth is veryvery tough opponents, the fight needs to not be easy for him to grow thats all. I think op is right, goku wouldnt go full force he would go through the stages of his tranformations to really test out his power he doesnt go at anyone full power sadly, i wish he would though!!!

[@PontiusPontiac]

Personally the issue I have with a Saitama vs Goku scenario is that a death match between the two wouldn't align between their established characters, and in a spar, both would be holding back, Goku because he loves prodding a sleeping bear and Saitama because he's very passive in fighting. While yes Goku is very powerful, Saitama is also powerful, and his power increased because he started fighting someone that matched his power for a second and he still held back, until he quite literally punched so hard that he went back in time ^^' at the end of the day though, it wouldn't be within their established character to have a death match, Goku would just want to spar against a strong opponent for the fun of it and Saitama would passively play along till he remembers the supermarket having a sale today

[@ikeillue8385]

There are a few issues with your theory here. To start with, Saitama never punched so hard that he went back in time. He copied a technique that is a time travel hack. The only thing his strength had to do with it, is it allowed him to survive using the technique. The big thing you are incorrect on is Saitama "passively playing along." Sure, he would probably start like that. However, since Goku is able to sense ki, and therefore would have a ballpark for how powerful Saitama actually is, he would start off by throwing out an attack that would actually hurt Saitama. This would immediately get Saitama excited, because his entire depression is based on the fact that he doesn't have any challenge. Maybe he wouldn't go all out right away, he might test the water a bit so that he doesn't instantly end the first decent fight he has gotten since he broke his limiter (at least, that is the case since he erased the Garou fight with the above mentioned time travel technique), but he would very quickly get to his full power, since Goku can, not only handle it, but massively outclasses it.

[@supahflames]

@@ikeillue8385 I agree mostly with what you said, except for the part about Saitama "reaching full power." The problem is that Saitama doesn't have a limit. If he's broken his limiter, then the concept of "100%" or "Full power" doesn't even apply to him anymore. His power will continue to passively skyrocket until he is beyond even that of Goku's most powerful form. It would be a battle of attrition, and to that end I can't exactly choose a winner. It would be the kind of fight that you'd have to just watch and see how it turns out. Sadly, that will never happen.

[@ikeillue8385]

@@supahflames Just because he has no limit, does not mean he doesn't have a full power. All that means is that he will never reach a point when his "full power" won't increase. At any given moment, he has a full power, its just that the next moment, that is no longer his full power anymore. The issue is, Saitama is not special in this regard. The vast majority of Shonen characters, including Goku, have no limits. The difference though, is that Saitama's current full power, that is increasing, is multi solar system level, while Goku's full power, which is also increasing, is massively multi universal. Furthermore, based on what we have seen, Goku's power is increasing faster than Saitama's (though, Saitama's power increases naturally, while Goku's power increases via training). Saitama's power increase is easily covered by a few times increase (2-5 is easily enough to cover what we see), over a couple minutes. On the other hand, Goku's power increases by a huge low ball of 200 million times, over 48 minutes, a solid portion of which, Goku was unconscious, so he wasn't increasing his power over the entire 48 minutes. Last point, the fact of the matter is, Goku's current power is so much higher than Saitama's power, that its not at all a battle of attrition. Goku could end Saitama at any moment he chooses to. Again, multi solar system level Saitama, vs massively multi universe level Goku. Its really not close.

[@Hudson_Vye165]

By that logic goku would have no limiter too and would grow as well

[@Aryan_Aran]

@@Hudson_Vye165 Goku and Saitama's limitless potential are different as Goku has to train or fight with a motive in mind to grow where Saitama just passively grows during a fight

[@Galamoth06]

I just want to point out that the scale that shows Saitama's power compared to Garou's literally shows exponential growth, not linear. They're both gaining power exponentially, in fact. Saitama just happens to be increasing at a much faster rate.

[@nalzeck]

Man's trying to talk about scaling withour being able to understand a graph, lol

[@Galamoth06]

@@nalzeck Do you mean me, or Geekdom?

[@marsoparey9474]

Geekdom

[@Delt4_Cr4wfish]

Or maybe, Saitama notces his opponents increase in power. And as a result uses more of his to easily surpass it. What seth doesn't show you here is that he still continues to hold back power as his promise to the kid that he wouldn't kill garou. Saitama also says now that he isn't on the planet he can use more of his power. Explains why his graph was rising. His opponent is seeing his power grow.

[@Galamoth06]

I just now realized this was a Seththeprogrammer video and not Geekdom101. Whoops. I'm kinda surprised nobody corrected me lol. I see a lot of people mention ki control in "Dragon Ball vs other fictional fighters" debates, usually to suggest a character isn't using their full strength, like it's a concept that's unique to Dragon Ball. As if pulling your punches or holding yourself back can't be done without the ability to manipulate ki.

[@nottuhs5192]

The only reason you can’t necessarily compare these 2 without it being fair is because Dragon ball has pretty much lasted way longer and progressed it’s story to the utmost extreme when compared to Opm, thus leaving Dragonball enough room to power scale its own universe into oblivion

[@dinomujovic2080]

Tbh saitama just gets powers randomly so that ain't really a fair point, Goku didn't start out nowhere near powerful as saitama did

[@11jcmex11]

So because the story isn't developed you can't compare, that is a terrible argument, they have finally given Saitama feats that you can use as comparison. Just because they haven't wanked him to be at the current level of DBS doesn't mean you can't compare.

[@kod5660]

Dragon Ball Super still has a while to go and Saitama is at the end of his story and yet he just had to increase his power to win.. But what you say is true I guess of Anything and why Superman is also impossible to beat I mean he sneezed away a solar system..

[@nottuhs5192]

@@11jcmex11 you can’t compare both without it being fair yes

[@nottuhs5192]

@@kod5660 my point proven, literally no character can beat superman at this just because he’s gone for so long that not even reality manipulation can hold him back, also about One Punch Man nearing its end, yeah no not even close, not even the webcomic is finished at that point, we’ve only finished an arc, not a majority of the story line

[@thegrandwombat8797]

The best part about Saitama is how clearly he demonstrates the limitations of traditional powerscaling systems. Feats based calculations are useful in many circumstances, but not the same thing as understanding a character's power, and cases like this one make that a lot easier to see.

[@commentmanilikemdansc8550]

Y'know what Anime fans especially the power scaler ones are Legit Smart i mean from the past days reading comments about Character after Character just them scaling I can confirm they are Smart they have a good set of philosophy (their personal philosophy ,Pretty knowledgeable about physics/cosmos, And always does a research, And sometimes actually does an actual Math calculations. I mean i don't even Memorize the multiplication table.😔

[@commentmanilikemdansc8550]

@@scalycopperhead1674 I ain't no simp plus I don't suck toes that's what Americans only do

[@BionicleGoji]

One thing I don't understand is goku died from a laser beam(weak as fuck one)to the to the heart which means piccolo could kill goku if he shoots goku directly in the heart💀which also means roshi,gohan,goten,vegeta,gohan,superman,Batman,darkside,many more characters can kill goku if they get a direct hit on him

[@supersaiyan23130]

​@@BionicleGoji yeah but it would take a direct hit and he would have to have his guard completely down, or to injured to move, but usually that doesn't happen, also he died that way mainly because they wanted Goku to die and then come back later, it was a plot decision

[@krownchi5267]

@@commentmanilikemdansc8550 What Is Being “ Smart “. They’re Just More In Depth Bro Chill Out. And Most Are Prob Not Happy. . Being Smart Doesn’t Lead To Happiness Peace Or Success. You’re Somebody Still Enjoy The Animes 💯 And Live Your Truth

[@pablo1006pr]

I think is difficult since both series are about different stuff, dragon ball is about surpassing their own limits, every time you reach the top there is a higher mountain, meanwhile one punch man is about someone that reach the top but was left empty inside. In the end one is always focusing on some guys never ending journey and the other one is about a guy that has no jouney left

[@XXEDITZ327]

Fax

[@Moosequitoo]

I don’t really understand people who compare mangas because each one has their own form of power, like how the One Piece world isnt as powerful as like the dragon ball universe but each feat is equally impressive from gokus MUI to Luffys Gear 5

[@nubarnn]

saitama doesnt have an end his power can go on forever

[@ProjektTaku]

@@nubarnn no, he has limitless potential, doesn't mean he has infinite power. Otherwise hulk and broly also have infinite power.

[@imsusanov2287]

Saitama also believes that there is still someone stronger than him and Dreams of fighting that being Just like Goku, He Dreams about battle that would push him

[@good8619]

Yeah, people also seem to forget that DB characters, especially the Sayians, have tremendous "invisible" gains. Like your example in the Top, where they grow significantly stronger in Base (which translates into their other forms too) and perform significantly better against a powerhouse like Jiren in each encounter, making him use more and more power. Easy to miss, cuz it isn't like a flashy transformation. Even after the ToP, Vs Moro and Granolah/Gas, they grow significantly after each fight/Zenkai, to the point where Gokus True UI makes his MUI in the ToP look like a joke, and Vegeta being arguably stronger than him with UE. And they will likely get more power ups now, looking at the last chapter and what has become of Frieza.

[@CorrectCrusader]

Frieza is 100% building to another Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan

[@thatsanimefr]

Meat rider, granola ark was garbage like fr fr black Frieza got the dub they gave Frieza a new form and the dub before Vegeta stop meat ridding this series it's garbage

[@thorshammer7883]

Though I am not a fan of modern dragon ball super writing but it is true the power progression has gotten out of hand with insane multiplications though the way they are treating power forms which have not been around for long and how they are naming them is pretty bad these days. The writing ideas could be way better. I think there are some better contestants that would compare to Goku much better then Saitama. I can think of six examples being: Anos Voldigoad (Misfit at Demon Academy) Wang Ling (Daily Life of the Immortal King) Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (Gurren Lagann) Ren Fuji (Shinza Bansho Dies Irae) Mori Jin (The God of Highschool) And last but certainly not least Seiya from (Saint Seiya). These six characters have some beyond universal scaling which can be better applied then Saitama does to be considered comparable to Goku. Ren Fuji can be insane depending on the type of scaling applied to his verse's power call Atziluth. But I think Anos Voldigoad would be the most interesting versus comparison to make against Goku because his verse has some of the most defined comparable cosmologies and he has alot of reality warping and destructive potent abilities that may make him comparable to Goku's best composite arguments.

[@Darkangel5x5]

That's crazy and all but in an all out fight all Saitama has to do is take it to space. Or destroy the planet. Goku dies in space

[@ukog6048]

Black Goku and now black Frieza lol🤣

[@oeuf2360]

"Has Everything Changed?" Yeah, people who call Saitama a gag character are lunatics now.

[@Pineapple_Sauce]

They always have been bro 😂

[@santinogioja2626]

always has been

[@bl_rose5367]

Nah they're still around. Now you've got people saying "haha funny gag bc Baldy farts at FTL". OPM subreddit genuinely think he's a gag

[@Wolfbroa]

They need therapy or something because their brains are broken or extremely delusional

[@andjelostrbulovic]

I mean, both Murata and ONE said he is a gag so

[@xeio1122]

I've been debating about this in a group dedicated to this exact topic for a while, and you hit literally all of the points talked about plus more. Perfect

[@shoemakerx0105]

Okay but one thing I want to put in your head is this. They were about to destroy the microcosm, but what if that's just because a God of destruction is linked to the universe. So every time beerus gets hurt, the universe reacts in response. I'm not trying to downplay DragonBall to make opm look better, I'm just saying that goku doesn't really strike me as a universal being outside of this feat Edit: God damn, I got gods of destruction being directly linked to the Supreme Kai's mixed up with them being linked to the universe because I haven't watched dbs in a few years, and everyone feels the need to jump me for being confused. This is why no one likes DragonBall fans

[@savage_kyle668]

@@shoemakerx0105 if ur just gonna refuse a fact then that's u, lmao goku is multiversal at lowball and if u don't believe that then it's just like saying how I dont believe 1+1=2 when there's obviously proof that 1+1 is 2 just like how goku is multiversal

[@azaluna2136]

@@shoemakerx0105 you are hard-core reaching either that. Beerus is never stated to be connected to the universe. Zamasu killed literally all the gods in his timeline, including beerus, and the universe is just fine. The reason goku doesn't go around almost destroying the universe after that us because of ki control. It's been explained before

[@RFG910]

@@shoemakerx0105 well idk if he’s connected to the universe idk about that it could be but I feel like a major plot point like that would atleast be mentioned

[@HopeArrived]

@@shoemakerx0105 that’s just the most head canon logic an assumption there is

[@tanoshi6667]

This leaves more questions than answered. Where does Peter Griffin Scale against Goku and Saitama?

[@rax1899]

Ur question leaves me with more questions

[@Mussuei]

Peter is immortal and has toonforce

[@allofgarden4152]

uncle grandpa could beat saitama and goku

[@EUGENEYOUPHOTOSYTHETICHAIR]

"Like the time I killed Saitama and Goku"

[@malikthomas8452]

@@allofgarden4152yes and sponge bob

[@TheChristenberry]

I dont care about powers calling. I just like the amount of effort Seth puts into all of his videos

[@seekinpeekin]

I like the fact that saitama is legitimately being held back from getting stronger by his verse 💀

[@yahiaherzallah688]

GGarou is not even galaxy-level proof>> The Milkywayy galaxy which is smaller than a full galaxy has a total of 1.5 trillion mass of suns or 100 billion stars and it's only 4 percent of the Milkyway galaxy, Garou in the manga made to some degree full-blown multiple holes in space but that isn't enough because even if he destroyed billion or millions of stars heck even solar systems that don't even come close to a full-blown galaxy. and I even have proof to prove it. ---Scientists weighed all the mass in the Milky Way galaxy It’s mind-boggling

[@seekinpeekin]

@@yahiaherzallah688 bro wat r u talking about

[@Rookiemandidit]

@@seekinpeekin he's saying how in the opm universe there's not enough strong opponents to make Saitama closer to goku

[@seekinpeekin]

@@Rookiemandidit thats exactly what i said in my original comment tho

[@devilravenninja9597]

I said a similar thing too. Saitama can't outgrow the OPM universe simply because the characters he interacts with that we all know and love are too weak for it. The opm universe is simply too realistic in comparison as absurd as that sounds

[@discountedartificer250]

Based on the graph in opm it seems to depict that saitama is able to scale exponentially as long as his opponent is as strong or somewhat stronger than him however this is based on things I noticed so it may not entirely be accurate however it is based on previous statements in opm stating that saitama broke his limit for his strength so he has infinite potential for power but not at infinite power, the only reason why he started scaling so fast was because he had an opponent who was just as strong as himself

[@ikeillue8385]

Incorrect. the only reason he was scaling that fast is because of the surge of emotion he got from Genos dying. It has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of his opponent.

[@ptoonsanimations8707]

​@@ikeillue8385 probably If an opponent is stronger than him, he will get back the émotion of fighting and will grow expanoately just like he did in one of the bonus chapters. But you're right, it's also because of his émotion for genos death

[@ikeillue8385]

@@ptoonsanimations8707 "probably" is not will. The only thing in the canon material that has caused his boost in growth, was Genos' death. We have 0 indication that anything else would cause that explosive growth. Also, he never grew exponentially. His rate of growth increased exponentially. His power increased from human level to a few thousand times solar system level in about a year and a half, then he got that surge of emotion, which caused his power to increase by that same amount, maybe double or triple that amount, in a matter of a couple minutes.

[@StalkingPeopleHmm]

​@@ikeillue8385but would Saitama grow that fast if his opponent would've been weaker than Saitama himself? No, because he doesn't need that much power to clap him. That's why both emotions and the strength of his opponent was a catalyst to exponential growth of his power

[@StalkingPeopleHmm]

​​​​@@ikeillue8385 tf did you write in end half of your reply? He didn't grow exponentially but his rate of growth kept increasing exponentially? What's the difference? Do u know the difference of rate of growth and actual growth? The manga clearly mentioned only growth, not rate of growth, in that case his growth rate is increasing but at a linear line, but according to you, the rate of his growth is also exponential, then you just wanked Saitama more broken than he actually is Lol

[@troytab6089]

Saitama is so, ungodly powerful, But the issue is that DB doesn't know how to set up stakes without going "And this character is EVEN STRONGER" And that means DB is constantly buffing characters to an absurd degree. To a point where Goku and Beerus literally destroy half of infinity each, a billion times over. Which of course. Is still infinity.

[@eudi8083]

I didn't know how powerful Goku was tbh, I didn't think that he was 4 million times stronger than the fricking infinity. Not to cast shade on DB, but if Goku can destroy anything in his super Saiyan form, then what's the point? He can just erase everything if he loses. In mastered ultra instinct he may be able to go all Thanos but instead of half the population he could erase everything 100 times over

[@tuber420]

@@eudi8083 why on earth would Goku kill everybody and the people he loves?

[@DaiMie]

@@tuber420 The difference between Goku and Saitama is that Saitama actually show his feat of actually doing it, while people talk about Goku claiming he can do it, but doesn't actually do it. We know Frieza can blow up a planet, but it take time and he still need to aim at the core. Cell is the same thing, he claim he can blow up a solar system, but he never actually do it. If Cell can blow up a solar system, he can go to the outer reaches of the Milky way and blast it at a safe distance. But he doesn't do that. So everything he said was a bluff.

[@AlejandroRodriguez-cy8ee]

@@DaiMie yes and no on the Frieza and Cell thing. Clearly frieza didn't care for the aim and just blew up planet earth on resurrection F (before whis time traveled). Meanwhile on namek, we are told that Frieza couldn't blow up Namek completely (not because he needed to aim, but because he was afraid of getting caught in the blast). Cell could blow up the solar system (or at least, that's what we are told.) but because it is stopped by Gohan, we would actually never see this (plus that doesn't mean that just because he does an attack it will literally blow up the solar system, he still needs to aim at either the sun, or the multiple planets at once to blow them up and from the position we see after cell dies in the father-son kamehameha, they were never aimed at the solar system planets). think of it like this, it's like that moment of us seeing Saitama use "Serious punch" on Genos, but Saitama stopped and blew up a mountain. We are shown that it's powerful, but never told how much powerful it actually is because he held back and his intention wasn't to kill genos. So taking that into account, is saitama's serious punch just a mountain level punch (or a bluff since he became light hearted after doing the punch?). No, it isn't. because we know that Saitama would never go all out on Genos, but we know "Serious punch" could be (and is) VERY DEVASTATING had he not been sparring (and we have been constantly seeing Saitama doing moves that could've been even MORE devastating had he gone full serious mode).

[@rskedits449]

@@DaiMie it’s cause they meet a match equivalent or even stronger so they can improve themself even more that’s why everytime they fight a villain they get stronger and gain new forms

[@cliffbot638]

I love how Death Notes music goes well with nearly everything

[@unseen6940]

NEARly aha!

[@olukmajn7228]

What is the name of this soundtrack?

[@cliffbot638]

@@olukmajn7228 I honestly don't know

[@mlgn0sc0p3r5]

“Could he go back in time and beat kid goku” Kid goku casually being stronger than current goku and ripping open the manga borders:

[@Loldino897]

Yeah Kid Goku was pretty much a gag character

[@mlgn0sc0p3r5]

@@Loldino897 he WAS a gag character

[@unbeatable6782]

@@mlgn0sc0p3r5 no he wasn't that's not a gag it's a joke for the show he never did this in the anime

[@mlgn0sc0p3r5]

@@unbeatable6782 it was in the literal manga, how would you want panel breaking to be illustrated on anime? Do you want goku to break your tv screen and beat your ass irl? Cause that’s how it would be if animated

[@unbeatable6782]

@@mlgn0sc0p3r5 it's a joke bro Goku is not immune to gags at all anyway breaking that panel is a joke dc did it does that mean there a gag now? Hell no SpongeBob did it too

[@nejx8711]

I was never really all that big on powerscaling, but from this video I can safely say that the creator DB definitely has powerscalers in mind and is just trying to make Goku stronger and stronger beyond sense

[@holapaoototo]

lol ya

[@gnomer5211]

welp that could be a reasone why saitama cant beat goku good point

[@503amirulhakim5]

@@gnomer5211 dont worry, my character called whammy from a comic i created can one slap goku easily

[@cosmic-spidey]

@@503amirulhakim5 LOL

[@nameless_moon]

@@503amirulhakim5 Can I see that comic ?

[@MrDuckerson]

the thing i like about seths channel is that he dosent just compare things that are relativley true he actaully shows their feats and other things

[@mrackz5694]

i have a question can niggas survive like can superman survive a planet being destroyed like if hes on it

[@AndrewAce.]

​@@mrackz5694 He can survive in space, and is more than durable enough to survive the destruction of Earth itself... In most continuities. Saitama can also do this, to a degree. He can probably hold his breath for a long time in Space. Goku and others are inconsistent in this aspect, but according to power scaling, they should have the raw durability to survive this.

[@sanjaykerpal6060]

@@mrackz5694 superman can destroy the multiverse and the 6th dimension, so yeah he can survive a planet destruction while hes on it.

[@jamesdecost6009]

@sanjay wait maybe my lord of Superman isn’t up to date, but doesn’t super man get his power from our sun? If he destroyed the solar system let alone the galaxy (with the sun in it) wouldn’t he become just a normal person and die from it? I’m not saying this with authority I’m asking, because as far as I know this is true, but you might no some lord I don’t.

[@sanjaykerpal6060]

@@jamesdecost6009 even if he destroys the sun he still has energy inside of him, he is like a battery.

[@counterzero2377]

"Has Everything Changed?" Him: "Yes." Also him: *spends 20 minutes explaining how basically nothing has actually changed*

[@s.elir07]

yeah goku still slams

[@josephgms1328]

@@s.elir07 nah

[@s.elir07]

@@josephgms1328 yes, dont be biased

[@Max-tq1ig]

Totally

[@sabe1045]

imagine being biased when we literally haven't even seen saitama struggling/damaged yet

[@BurnerClipacc]

I also felt DBZ, DBS, and DBH were always so inconsistent. The power of immeasurability and universe crippling is so strange when paired to a villain with twisted goals and mindsets.

[@madatcolorless7050]

Dbh isn’t canon , Dbs tried to take a more linear route than Z but the powers of Goku and Vegeta are consistent only thing inconsistent about super is them making side characters stronger than they should for the sake of relevancy like 17

[@WrongKristoff]

I'd also add VISUALS ART STYLE & ANIMATION that can add on to that "inconsistent" feeling. There are moment where I'm like "Damn, I don't see Goku randomly tearing space per punch like Person Example A but I know he can do it". That SSG Goku vs Beerus Punch for example looked weak as hell and I KINDA hated the early stages of DBS anime LOL

[@elijahaaron6949]

Nah only dbs and dbh since DBZ was quite consistent when it came to power

[@itriggerpeople2620]

@@madatcolorless7050 Canon dosen't ignore facts.

[@BurnerClipacc]

@@elijahaaron6949 I agree with you. The transition from DBZ to DBS was pretty terrible. A minor detail can be pulled from Supreme Elder Kai. He talks about how he was sealed away both in DBZ and DBS. DBZ: "Almost as terrible as Boo." DBS: "Beerus-sama sealed me away." So how would boo be stronger than Beerus? If not then on par with a GOD. They both use the Z-Sword. However, the wording is very weird on how he power scales Beerus to Buu. We saw Buu getting pretty evenly matched with SSJ3 Goku. But, Beerus made SSJ3 look like Yellow hair dye with sprinkles on-top.

[@connorwallace9145]

It’s pretty crazy to think that Saitama is fighting with one hand

[@ghoul5825]

It's actually not When you punch you punch with one hand Ever seen someone punch with two hands ? And they were just trading blows No technique or something

[@lostinsound_wav]

@@ghoul5825 you use your other arm when punching as well, mainly for balance. Can you imagine delivering planet-shattering punches while holding a hollow metal core that you could easily crush? No even gonna talk about the fact that he has to protect this core while fighting a f*cking god

[@swapuuu7028]

@@lostinsound_wav u r really not a fighter it means i once had to save my school notes while fighting a bully i clrly fought him with single hand and managed to blow a couple of upercuts and jabs on his face . nd none of the time it seemed like i was being weak !!!

[@lostinsound_wav]

@@swapuuu7028 well done buddy, still doesn't change the fact that you use your other arm for balance. I didn't say your punch would be weak with only one arm, but with two arms it'd be easier to maintain balance and add strength

[@swapuuu7028]

@@lostinsound_wav we r talking about a fictional character dude do u think that balancing concept will have any effect in that scene?

[@mrgar4446]

Just a little thing that I think should be addressed to add another point in Saitama's favor: Blast and his "allies" vectored the serious punch squared into the universe to save Earth, meaning that what they did was take all the energy from their punch and shot it one direction. So that energy basically just destroyed everything in that direction. If they didn't vector it, we don't exactly know how much would be destroyed, but it would be a substantially greater feat if it wasn't vectored away. Also side note: All of those stars are millions, and even billions of light years away. Meaning that for that energy to reach it nearly instantaneously is just absurd

[@raf8668]

i tough seth took that into consideration or maybe he didant

[@supremeinfern0qt576]

@@raf8668 he didn’t nor did he take into the count that saitama rapidly grows and matches his opponents strength instantly

[@raf8668]

@@supremeinfern0qt576 I have yet to watch one punch man but I always care to be accurate since I just literary finished dbs rn

[@supremeinfern0qt576]

@@raf8668 W

[@izzyking4951]

I'm sure he considered it but either way it wouldn't matter because all the stuff that happened in dbz to dbsuper is still greater than that

[@akumaisreal2090]

"Broly kind of did overpower Goku" No sir. Broly absolutely overpowered Goku AND Vegeta, AS A SUPER SAIYAN. The Broly disrespect is real man...

[@mrfake1253]

He didn't absolutely he did just kind of cuz goku still got hits in and people forgetting goku isn't trying to kill anyone nor destroy the planet of goku didn't care and imbraced his saiyan nature he could've killed broly on the spot but he couldn't cuz he would've probably had to take the universe out with him just to put him down

[@akumaisreal2090]

@@mrfake1253 That's some good weed you're smoking because that made NO sense. If Goku could kill him so easily, as you're implying, then it shouldn't be difficult at all to knock Broly out. Yeah Goku got some hits in, but none of that matters. Let me lay it out: Goku and Vegeta, working together, in Super Saiyan Blue form, COULD NOT DEFEAT, a Super Saiyan ONE Broly. They had to run away so they could fuse. Broly was still trading blows with Super Saiyan One Gogeta, Gogeta was mostly dodging and blocking during that phase of their fight. When Broly transformed into Legenday Super Saiyan he was starting to overpower Super Saiyan One Gogeta before he transformed to Super Saiyan Blue. The point is Broly absolutely dominated Goku and Vegeta, even worse than DBZ Broly did. DBZ Broly was already in Legend form when he smacked them around, this time he only needed his Super Siayan One form to smack them around at Super Saiyan Blue. If you don't think that's OVERPOWERED, then you're objectively a fanboy.

[@NurRid]

@@mrfake1253 Nah but like, Goky has years of fighting experience in combat and he's dubbed as a martial arts genius. In a fight he wouldn't get hit unless he wanted to at the minium. Broly was outpacing Goky really easily. Plus, Goku getting hits on Broly was more of Broly's lack of experience.

[@projectzfoundation3065]

@@akumaisreal2090 killing and knocking out is different.

[@akumaisreal2090]

@@projectzfoundation3065 yes they are, that's what I was saying too.

[@MrGomesxd]

Something that has to be said is how the power is actually shown. DB sadly is very bad at conveying feats, most of the time DB don't show, it tells (and anime and manga is vastly different, specially super). That's what's make people forget or simply don't get how ridiculous and broken is DB powerscaling. Before get mad at me, read the last fight in super manga, the strongest being in the universe are fighting in a planet and the maximum damage done is the ground getting smashed, pretty meh fight btw. To close it all: Goku is said multiple times to be strong enough to do whatever you want he to do, but it is rarely shown, just telled (plus SSJ multiplier seems to not work at all in super). On the other hand, murata draws like a god and convey a lot Saitama's feats and is easier to get impressed reading OPM manga compared to super, where the fights currently doesn't look even mountain level (though yeah, they are universal or any shit like that that doesn't make any sense anyway)

[@jishnuprogamingroblox421]

Obviously, DBZ and DBS are old school. They were way ahead of their time. Now movies are much better

[@ToastyClam]

That’s so funny because all these years y’all never talked about art when it was naruto vs goku. Goku mfs are cringe

[@MrGomesxd]

@@ToastyClam the fact people even considered Naruto could fight Goku kinda proves my point. But whatever, I find this kinda discussion very unproductive, I was just in need to share my thoughts on this subject

[@djw_tekken8490]

Wut D Fuk

[@ravenairloft5861]

And something that a lot of people forget is that Goku never starts a fight using his full power I get that you think just because he can destroy a universe with a wave of his hand doesn't mean that he is going to theres a ton of things that go into why the blows won't destroy a world and it's because of the simple fact of how the dragon ball universe works and how it's different from ours so some planets can take the power of the blows and others can't and Goku is good at making stuff not hit where he's fighting for if the world he's fighting on where to be destroyed since he can't breathe in space he would die but also you don't know how other stuff works in DB Goku if he where to get shot by a gun could be killed but since he has his ki or energy around his body almost all the time he can take a bullet like it was nothing so he could be putting a ki sheald around the space of him fighting so it won't get destroyed and before you say Goku is not smart enough to think of something like this in the TOP the rules say that you can't fly and it takes away the ability to fly unless it's a natural ability so he makes up for this when fighting by seeing ki blast mid battle to climb up to his opponent that was in the air at the time so when it comes to mid battle thinking to help him and the world he fights on this is completely on the realm something Goku can do

[@brawler8839]

As far as im concerned Saitama just needs an opponent he can fight seriously against to being growing exponentially. Similar to saiyans except he does it during the fight instead of losing and then coming back stronger. In both series there's a large theme of needing to fight stronger opponents to increase your own strength and if saitama fights someone as strong as goku and goku doesn't immediately finish him off, it will quickly become a problem as his strength increases exponentially. And it was directly stated that saitama had broken his limiter so he will continue to grow *forever.* This is the same guy who learned how to understand the flow of the universe and manipulate it to reverse time and causeality in literal seconds. The amount of growth he would experience against goku would be ABSURD. Gokus power is linear, (as shown by all his increases being simple multipliers rather than exponents), saitamas is exponential, which means saitama will catch up absurdly fast. Lets say saitama has a power of like 200,000 (im just picking random numbers that seem sufficiently large to demonstrate a general point before anyone asks), and goku is literally 10 billion times stronger, which is WAY higher than any multiplier i heard seth mention, that would be 2×10^15. If we gave saitama even a LOW exponent and did 200,000^3, that still comes out as 8×10^15 which means even a TEN BILLION times difference can be easily overcome depending on how large the number you use to represent saitama is (And it would most likely be very large as he is objectively strong as shit). All saitama needs is strong emotion and a strong opponent and if saitama is finally getting to foght someone genuinely so much stronger than him, i think he will be full of positive emotion. (The manga never said it was specifically anger that made him begin to grow, just intense emotion.) Anyway, thats why i believe that pineapple shouldn't be on pizza, thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[@ytaccount8635]

Yeah fr, he used Garou as a toy to get stronger. He annoyed saitama by copying his strength and durability, so it made Saitama push further just to get stronger due to his Infinite potential. So in the end, if you can make saitama 100% and make him pass his outer limits then hed just get stronger and stronger. The only downside is that to hope that Saitama doesnt get One shotted or Speed blitzed.

[@brawler8839]

@@ytaccount8635 exactly. And the amount of times goku has tried to one shot a person at the start of the fight can be counted on one hand im pretty sure.

[@metatron107]

I would like to add it's implied by the fact that Saitama has NEVER been injured in a fight, that he is always as strong as he will ever be. It's not that he becomes more powerful, it's that he is always this strong and it takes a powerful opponent to even decide to make him exercise his own power and find out how strong he really is. It looks like exponential growth because he's just matching the strength scale of anyone he encounters as his natural state is unused infinite power.

[@thegrandwombat8797]

@@metatron107 Yeah I don't know why people keep missing this, he doesn't get stronger fighting Garou, his punches got stronger. He just kept hitting harder and harder because Garou was getting stronger. He's never shown to use any effort, or to be even slightly injured - he's just arbitrarily stronger (exponentially so) than any opponent, and the story is exploring what it means for that to be true for a character.

[@basedstreamingatcozy-dot-t7126]

@@thegrandwombat8797 I don't think that's correct because Saitama ended up sneezing and messing up Juptier. The implication was that he was actually getting stronger, since his sneezes never did that before, and it was one of the more impressive feats seen in the manga

[@kekkingwithacapitalk73]

Goku has had decades of character development towards the growth of his powers. I feel like it'd be more fair to compare them when one punch man nears its final arc against God to really see what his peak feats potentially are.

[@newhybrid101]

He has had little development that was undone in Supers regression

[@angeljohnson7582]

Ok

[@cjmax_822]

@@angeljohnson7582 he’s right tho, character wise all the DB characters are shells of what they were

[@drakefisher6317]

@@nishcheta885 If an argument like that is ever going to get off the ground, that "OPM is a new series and hasn't had the time to develop Saitama's power", the OPM fandom is the one that has to back off first. If even a single OPM fan is comparing Saitama to Goku, any DB fan is justified in comparing back. Problem is, with the people that think Saitama due to his lack of feats has no limits and is thus infinite and solos fiction, it's never gonna happen.

[@SSIMS]

Saitama solos the verse no matter how strong Goku is he is limitless

[@christiancasaverdepertica1802]

3:15 I think I agree with you in general that little has actually changed, but I want to correct something. You said that Saitamas growth is linear (and quantifiable, which doesn't necessarily mean weaker, but besides the point). It's not linear, though, it's exponential, which is a bit a different beast altogether

[@TheeGraveMistake]

yeah i was confused cause the graph is clearly not linear

[@dillon7746]

Yea what he doesn’t realize is at a point and exponential graph will in crease more than goku can. Even when he was talking about how his power could increase by 4,000,000 by nature an exponential graph his power could increase infinitely more than that. Another cool thing to realize is that some infinities are bigger than others, and in the case of saitama it is shown that no matter the power level of his opponent his power increase to be greater that it, which basically means his infinity will always be bigger than gokus infinity

[@k1llsh0t_87]

@@dillon7746 so you're saying that Goku increases in strength linearly? and also Goku has also been shown to become stronger than his opponent no matter how strong they are too aside from the angels, Beerus and Zeno but thats because they were far beyond what he could even comprehend and we've never seen a gap anywhere close to that with Saitama but with Goku and Vegeta especially in super they have been shown to bridge insane gaps to surpass their opponents but apparently Saitama going from planetary to galaxy is somehow infinite now and him growing stronger mid fight is exclusive to him

[@justintejada3243]

@@k1llsh0t_87 the difference is Goku has to usually train, or have a new transformation to surpass his opponents eventually. Saitama is just naturally stronger than the people he fights already, and adapts his strength to match or surpass his opponents. I don’t think Saitama is currently stronger than Goku by any means, but Saitama definitely has a ton more potential than Goku does. Imagine if Saitama train a whole life time like Goku did? He would literally be immortal. It took Saitama 3 years to achieve strength that took Goku about 30 years to achieve.

[@jordanlennon4801]

@@dillon7746 No he only did that to gorou not anybody else he was already stronger than the rest of the people he fought so he couldn’t grow past somebody he was already stronger than. And if you wanna use facts he only did that when genos got destroyed so he used anger to grow. And goku did the same thing with Frieza when krillen was killed. Gohan also did the same when 16 was destroyed. And broly did that when Paragus died. But people don’t seem to think saiyans can grow stronger while fighting but all of them can. The saiyans spar with each other to grow way stronger before zenkai can get a chance to do anything. If sparring equals a battle what makes you think goku can’t grow the same in a battle. And if you say goku can’t do that you don’t know his character he is always fighting with somebody stronger than him but somehow beats them in the end. That’s the same thing saitama did. So In a fight if saitama grows stronger than goku that’s when goku is gonna reached saitama’s power to match his saitama power it’s in all saiyans genetics. They get stronger while fighting but saiyans like broly do it way faster but it’s still in their genetics. All saiyans we have seen fight did the same thing saitama did which is (fighting the enemy who is stronger than some how growing past that said enemy) if that’s not the case then goku, vegeta, broly, Gohan, would be dead already.

[@borisshnitkov7600]

Man, I really wish that Dragon Ball's power scaling was actually represented in the visuals better, at this point Goku could destroy all of existence by simply breathing.

[@paddyfields599]

That's what I'm saying man. I watch some episodes, and not even shockwaves are created from galaxy level attacks.

[@gauravangkataria2348]

@@paddyfields599 fr I'm afraid that in the end author will say that this was all a joke and this is all happening in his doll house or something

[@tremiller6839]

@@paddyfields599 It would be too much. There was already inconsistency early on with SS 1 and 2 and whether lightning dictated the form and etc. I get that it's not represented well. But the math is very literal when stated by characters.

[@l_a_n_i_g__r_8275]

@@paddyfields599 mui goku should be atleast complex multiversal lvl.

[@vonatethegod3244]

Buh if that would happen like they would have to fix the universe n shi every single fight or spare

[@ultrabutstink5532]

Seth.... I can officially say your an awesome dude.

[@monad5140]

The problem with Dragon Ball is that there are statements about characters’ power that are not adequately demonstrated after the Frieza saga. You just don’t see planets getting ripped apart willy-nilly which means all you see is martial arts with small explosions with the PROMISE that the theoretical power level would smash continents.

[@Ale2raw]

because most of the fights happens on earth or in any other important planet ☠️, why would they destroy the planet they’re on everytime they fight, especially knowing the fact that both goku & vegeta can’t breath in space? ☠️, & wat do you mean statements that haven’t been adequately demonstrated after the freiza arc? ☠️ like are you just going to ignore buu destroying galaxies & with time potentially the universe or buu almost destroying the universe by screaming or goku & beerus almost destroying the entire macrocasm by just clashing while holding back or champa & beerus almost destroying the universe or goku moving faster than time skip or goku attacking hit while he’s in another time space or goku moving on 0 time or goku black slicing open a dimension containing an inf amount of himselfs in it or jiren quite literally being stated & shown to transcend time & space or goku shaking an inf 4D construct by just existing or jiren shaking the same inf 4D construct by just flexing or toppo casually changing the entire color of the world of void with one attack or broly & gogeta breaking reality not once but TWICE by just clashing ☠️, cmon bro if you’re going to comment on a show at least do your research on it first 😂 -edit: also in Dragon Ball there’s a thing called ki control, go learn about it 👍🏾

[@KaioCresendo]

My theory for why the world doesn’t shatter from a fight is because they completely control their ki. Think of how jiren turns a spirit bomb sized ball into a tiny one is how I think of it. I think that they trade out range for damage. Instead of them concentrating their ki into breaking the area, they focus it and compress it into the enemy to do the max amount of damage

[@Ale2raw]

@@KaioCresendo 100% correct lmao, you should read the response i made to his comment

[@kevincena3]

@@Ale2raw Right you can make planet size power into punches for example when Goku and Beerus clashed a punch planets were shaking due to the shock wave

[@viciousoz4188]

@@KaioCresendo That’s exactly why I’ve always assumed the entire world would shake during new transformations/power-ups in DB. They were unable to completely control their ki during the transformation. Once they get used to it, they can freely change into their super saiyan form without causing earthquakes and tsunamis all over earth.

[@OkWoodsSlowed]

It's crazy to me how when people's favorite characters gain more feats, they instantly compare it to Dragonball/Goku... That in itself says a lot. 💀💀

[@Solbrave00]

Why goku of all people? Last time i checked it was superman whos was the stronger between him and goku.

[@tolkienblack]

@@Solbrave00 because it’s the anime world. Dragon ball was THE anime for most of us so it’s almost reflex to go to goku

[@robotsix6268]

And Goku is paired against Superman a lot. What that tells us is people like to make what-ifs in their mind. That's all. 🐕💩 take.

[@annon658]

Goku stans still saying goku is stronger than any fictional characters, even though marvel already has Thanos with the gauntlet (and he's not even the strongest character in the marvel comics) and DC having Superman prime 1 million, which both of them are omnipotent. They even dared to compare Zeno to an even higher omnipotent characters like Lucifer Morningstar or even Living tribunal. Heck, they even compared him to the one above all and the presence.

[@suddenstorm7887]

@@annon658 Goku still solos

[@mirror857]

I’m just happy that the „Saitama is a gag character“ „„„argument“““ is slowly dying… great video Seth!

[@darryltorres7302]

yeah, they were taking that gag character stuff way too seriously. I found almost nothing funny about the last few chapters in opm, besides the serious fart and even then I took it seriously.

[@colin4839]

He is one tho. Its the concept of the show

[@ecliptic2686]

@@colin4839 😂

[@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy]

Apparently the creators themselves said he is. Now i use statements but i know not everyone does so if thats true then at least for me, i wont have much of a refute

[@raihothexiv15th37]

@@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy Nope, they never have and if they did, they’re wrong.

[@xay45]

Officially watching 75% of all your uploads and I never felt nerder and I love it

[@thetruth2258]

Has anything changed? Short answer: Yes, but Goku still claps Long answer: SethTheProgrammer

[@Hardbutdiff]

LOL, that's what i'm gonna say.

[@projectzfoundation3065]

Deadass unless opm makes a humongus jump db will still clap saitama atleast 80 -90% percent of the time especially since he hasnt even surpassed the anime yet not even dbz kai buu saga.

[@justaguypassingby3319]

You kinda spitting right now

[@6paths988]

Spitting facts.

[@u_nova_]

@Uno Block Because Goku claps? If you want to say Goku loses then prove it

[@yadafty7671]

You seem to have misunderstood the time travel feat. Garou made his atoms and stuff spin backwards and saitama basically copied it and did it much faster so he reverses time. Garou was never linked to saitama, thats a complete misinterpretation of the scene.

[@wtjlife4402]

It still goes back to if he wasn’t there he wouldn’t be able to do it

[@GRAINYPILL]

@@wtjlife4402 fax

[@B1rdman574]

@@wtjlife4402 yeah and if master Roshi didn’t exist goku doesn’t know kamehameha, ur point?

[@orabijuu8550]

@@wtjlife4402 bruh what are you on hahaha

[@yadafty7671]

@@wtjlife4402 Nah Genos explained that no matter what happened Saitama would have transended time and space to save everyone. So even if Garou didn't teach Saitama to time travel, Saitama would have done something that involves reversing time and healing everyone.

[@rpgfanatic5477]

Not gonna debate Goke vs Saitama on here, the video did a great job explaining it. What I would like to explain though, in the very next chapter it explains that Saitama was in fact HOLDING BACK on Garou because he PROMISED not too kill him. You can argue Saitama was surpassing himself, but I'm certain he was actually holding back each punch to make sure it doesn't kill. The only reason Garou thought he was surpassing himself, is because Garou had no idea just how much power Saitama actually has. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do think Saitama was extremely mad, but I'm pretty sure he held back to keep his promise.

[@vitalredo]

Ngl even if he held back, compared to goku that's not much sadly..but I see ya

[@vegeets3710]

Sorry but that graph was an explanation to the audience to what was happening in a narrative style so his strenght indeed was increasing, the graph also shows that garou and saitama were almost leveled before saitama's strenght grew so he wasnt holding back atleast in the beginning especially since he stated he was going to go all out

[@rpgfanatic5477]

@@vegeets3710 it's a narrative graph from garous perspective though, so it doesn't mean much imo. I'm not even disputing the fact that Goku>>>>>>>Saitama. I'm only explaining that he was indeed holding back, even by his own admission at the end of the fight...

[@vegeets3710]

@@rpgfanatic5477 read the chapter again from "even now saitama was continuing to grow" to "to measure what level saitama's strenght had reached" an give the chat and thought bubble definitely indicating garou talking or thinking a voice and the one in square boxes a different voice and you'd see it's different

[@rpgfanatic5477]

@@vegeets3710 I can agree with that, but does that really negate the entire end of the fight where he mentions he had to keep his promise not to kill him? If Saitama really was using everything he had, I'd have expected more than just using 1 hand the entire fight as well... he still hasn't kicked (far as I know). Bottom line is, I really do think he was holding back some, maybe he began holding back more as the fight went on and he became stronger? And right at the start he was truly giving his all? I need to re-read these chapters lol. Anyway, I'm not about to be like "nah, Saitama destroys Goku" Goku MUI and later feats alone are nearly un-surpassable in anime imo.

[@BrockandNikkiLooney]

love the videos. Just remember every time you hear it said "Saitama at full power" he was one handed. He was holding Genos core cause he only needed one hand to beat Cosmic Garo lol.

[@finnish_hunter]

Still would not matter one bit

[@Crazyhead432]

If someone only needs one hand to do something it can’t be at their full power.

[@RikutoTheGoat]

@@Crazyhead432 he can punch at full power but not fight at full power. You don’t need two hands to punch someone at full power

[@skinnymaster1838]

Arguments like this don’t make sense cause like, have you never punched anything before? When you punch someone as hard as you can do you use both hands? He can still punch at max power it’s just that his actual combat ability is limited

[@finnish_hunter]

@@RikutoTheGoat Okay? So your statement was completely redundant?

[@lxkn0745]

This makes me wonder how strong Saitama would become if he has as much experience as Goku does. Would he eventually overcome Goku in terms of feats when considering their “primes”, or does one just fall short after their stories end?

[@delfinner2212]

I mean as of now Goku clobber Saitama with no difficulty but that could change

[@mdyasir17]

@@delfinner2212 lmao

[@sparklyflea9234]

SPOILER : Since the manga is still going black frieza literally one shot goku and vegeta at the same time in his new form, so goku did going to get even stronger now that he has another stupidly powerful enemy to fight

[@adamkaiyt8241]

Then Gohan never be touch by anyone with his potential growth

[@Shawn_txx]

@@delfinner2212 I like seth but he is getting one thing wrong. Saitama groth wasn't slow it was fast but garu continued to copy saitama that is why he was keeping up with the groth of saitama. It was stated almost at the end of the fight that even though garo was copying saitama over and over saitama was just getting stronger so fast that copying him was pointless and that garu couldn't keep up. Saitama know that garu is copying him every time so saitama just continued to raise his power. If saitama groth was slow and if garu power was close to saitama then garu would be able to but a scratch on saitama even once. That didn't happen so that means saitama is was way stronger that what we even

[@PlatinumSperms]

Garou and Saitama weren’t time traveling together, Garou was teaching him how to do it (Garou literally died before Saitama traveled) and is said in the official translation “his Punch thus reversed time” and doesn’t mention Garou

[@fatcat2861]

He can’t do it anyway since he lost his memory

[@dontmindme55]

@@fatcat2861 ok...

[@calebstephan2083]

No, garou gave him access to the time sphere and Saitama just used his punch to navigate through it to go back to the past. He can't do it on his own.

[@carlosuchiha8854]

@@calebstephan2083 wtf are you saying lmao what time sphere?

[@seru.89]

Teaching him means he can't do it without garou doing it first

[@functioningrubixcube259]

Literally nothing has changed

[@fuckingking6796]

Except saitama is only kid buu level

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

@@rmullins9368 lol no

[@jao999]

@@rmullins9368 cell takes down saitama easy

[@WOLFSUP3RM0D3]

@@rmullins9368 in your wet dreams probably

[@derp1330]

If gokus not bloodlusted he would probably lower his pl to near sitamas and he would get stronger and stronger if goku isn't careful he could get out of hand like what happend with broly

[@Sammy715]

Finally someone who understands dbz You have earned my follow for this 😌❤️✨

[@dvbstofhrvst6216]

The problem with Goku and Dragon Ball/Super in general, is that they don't show how powerful their characters really are. We see Gokū in SSJG shake the universe and almost destroy it by colliding with a restrained Beerus, but... Then we see MUCH more powerful transformations, and they don't show a **** of feats. It all comes down to punches and smoke explosions. The fact that at this point, they continue to reduce everything to just "martial arts" and crazy blows, makes Goku look like much less than he really is. Come on, I even got eye cancer when I read in the manga that Saiyans couldn't travel in space because they would die from lack of oxygen. Imagine having a power comparable to the Gods, and not being able to leave a planet. It's just ridiculous, and even more so if you're supposed to be incredibly fast.

[@uandresbrito5685]

I think maybe they can't fly properly? The only times we see characters fighting in outer space is Beerus vs Champa iirc and they were using planets as footing to move around, so maybe flight doesn't really work without oxygen or another surface gas. Probably wrong, but it's an attempt at an explanation so that they can't leave the planet even if they can warp to the edge of the universe with their speed.

[@sabaibaikari7023]

Ki control. Also we kind of do with Goku black who sliced reality and used it as a power source then heals it casually

[@SuiteBid]

To be honest, I hardly bother to care, since this isn't exclusive to Dragon Ball. The vast majority of series do not constantly show the sheer scale of how powerful they are, especially when breaching the planetary and universal thresholds of power respectively. Happens so often that I hardly bother to care about it.

[@dimitri4888]

Maybe because Goku actually isn't as strong as Seth makes him up to be.

[@SuiteBid]

@@dimitri4888 Unlikely. The same line of logic could be used for a lot of series. But it generally isn't that big of a deal, to be honest.

[@BigLonLife]

You honestly can destroy the speed/time thing with a much simpler argument than the one you made. The top fighters in Dragonball were moving waaaaay faster than Saitama a long time ago and nobody was going backwards in time. So in the Dragonball universe, moving super fast doesn't have anything to do with traveling back in time at all. It can help you defeat people jumping forward, but thats it. Only in Saitama's universe could this ability make a difference. It's strictly an argument of universe, and not character feat, which defeats the purpose of the argument. Everybody who knows the characters, knows for certain that Goku is many times faster in raw stats, and that's all there is to the argument.

[@macmaster3622]

The time traveling wasn’t based off of speed at all tho so

[@ibnmuhammad886]

@@macmaster3622 it was It was making the atoms move backwards on speed. That’s clearly speed based

[@macmaster3622]

@@ibnmuhammad886 it was more of just an outright power than saitama moving super fast and then time traveling which is what Seth made it seem like

[@jakesstatefarm]

I agree this is a good way to describe the argument. Its an ability Saitama used toanipulate his atoms speed/direction but is not an outright speed feat. And because time works differently in either verse in a void argument it wouldn't apply.

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

it is a without a doubt that goku kills saitama but if he actually equates his strength to him then goku is gonna get wrecked. Fair to assume that manga is applying that saitama and garou's punch did make a hole in the visible universe which goku can also do back when he first got ssred. Out of character Goku wrecks saitama in an instant

[@aquilesvailo4786]

I think Saitama biggest fear is his stamina and durability. He has never been shown to be tired or taken substantial damage.

[@mdc123-v2v]

That's because he's only ever fought against planetary level threats. Even Boros despite being a 'star' level threat needed to expel his entire life force to threaten the Earth. We don't have any panel feats for Boros outside his own statements.

[@zenn6322]

@@mdc123-v2v He didn't need to expel his life force for the earth, but against saitama. The only reason boros said that he'll blast away the earth and saitama is because saitama was in his way. He had to kill saitama to destroy earth which he failed to do

[@bunny2004]

You forgot about that crab man that makes saitama bleed at first place

[@zenn6322]

@@bunny2004 That was way before he became bald and got his powers

[@bunny2004]

@@zenn6322 he said ''He has never been shown'' so yeah, saitama has been shown to be tired or taken substantial damage.

[@freestyle1227]

In OPM, the impact of punches carries a distinct sensation that vividly illustrates Saitama's immense strength. Conversely, in DB, Goku's punches often lack the palpable force expected from a character capable of "destroying an entire universe with a single punch." While some attribute this to ki control, it seems a rather feeble justification. Hence, I firmly believe Saitama surpasses Goku in sheer strength. I suppose that's the challenge of creating a martial arts anime where characters possess planet-shattering strength, yet the narrative strives to maintain a balance, avoiding the destruction of planets while emphasizing martial arts prowess. It's a complex scenario, and until Dragon Ball can elevate its visual storytelling beyond mere screen shaking and verbal commentary to truly depict the power behind each punch, I'll continue to stand firmly in Saitama's corner without a second thought.

[@Histoblox]

i heard: i dont wanna admit goku is stronger and is proved, so until he destroys my mom which is a outerversal being, im on saitamas side

[@sinra9379]

Exactly u got people like seth who dont even understand the implications of the feats OPM does and things he can say whos stronger, seth is a joke. OPM can punch air and destroy a cliff side and anything behind it with a punch. Meanwhile ssgod bsgod super saiyan instinct goku full power can kick and punch on and the planet is still there its not ki control force is force. Clearly OPM is stronger if you actually understand what you're seeing.

[@Histoblox]

@sinra9379 maybe osm is stronger if you turn your brain off. Yall saitama yards just can't accept goku is stronger, so just gonna deny the truth? Nice scaling.

[@MegaMachiOnline]

Android 18 literally picked up another dimension that Goku couldn't even teleport into and threw it XD

[@kwangunumawala]

Can we appreciate the effort that seth puts in all of his videos

[@blyat8832]

Silence, bot

[@Zenith_Nulls]

Bot

[@lightmohamed5700]

why is everyone saying bot?

[@juice6609]

Bros a bot

[@juice6609]

@@lightmohamed5700 cause that’s why he is

[@5anctuary]

Saitama doesn't have as impressive feats as goku but the problem is that whatever feats he has are drawn/animated amazing. They put so much time in drawning Saitama's serious punch and to show the effects of it. Everyone and their mothers, lost their shit when they saw the drawn panel of Saitama's serious table flip.

[@jesuscarter4048]

wait what didnt saitama punch a universe out of existence

[@nitrosenpaii2823]

@@jesuscarter4048 when tf? 💀

[@bryanfurious6100]

@@jesuscarter4048 hahah ? wtf ?

[@wordrecordbreakers3927]

@@jesuscarter4048 bro is making up shit now Tf💀💀👉👉🤡🤡

[@loveableairhead8249]

@@jesuscarter4048 you mean the Serious Punch² ?

[@eyeseagle6299]

"Has Everything Changed?" YES SethTheProgroomer, your reputations.

[@benakinnusi2518]

Facts

[@Artixes]

At least with a update on this debate from you. I can stop hearing about this debate with ridiculous arguments such as “This panel has galaxies behind it so Garou is a living galaxy” (yes I actually read this from someone)

[@headshotfaze9371]

Ive read this from several lmao

[@thorshammer7883]

Anos Voldigoad would be a better match up for Goku then Saitama is. As well as would Wang Ling (Daily Life of the Immortal King) Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (Gurren Lagann) Ren Fuji (Shinza Bansho Dies Irae) Mori Jin (The God of Highschool) And last but certainly not least Seiya from Saint Seiya. They would be better characters to compare with Goku then Saitama.

[@pablogomesoliveira2677]

I have seen people calling garou OMNIPOTENT because the universe is inside him

[@emperorchampion]

@@thorshammer7883 goku claps mori jin

[@thorshammer7883]

@@emperorchampion Mori Jin is still better then Saitama though in power.

[@brgscrapp]

You got me dying with the “No! Because kid goku is a gag character” lol 😂

[@naijaboygangsta]

Well, technically he isn't wrong. Goku started out as a gag character for the first chapters

[@lowerc4e531]

Goku is no longer a gag character while Saitama is still is. Saitama wins.

[@cryingmetal9349]

@@lowerc4e531 Saitama isnt a gag character.

[@lowerc4e531]

@@cryingmetal9349 Saitama is a gag character.

[@cosmicvib6938]

@@lowerc4e531 Saitama isn't a gag character, he was shown struggling before the growth not to mention if he was a gag he wouldn't need to grow or fight somewhat serious at all

[@nem1]

My only issue with the serious punch ² destroying star systems or galaxies is how much emphasis they placed on Saitama's sneeze. If they obliterated multiple star systems, or even galaxies, at the beginning of their fight, sneezing away Jupiter wouldn't even be a relevant show of power. Garou was clearly freaked out by Saitama gaining enough power to be able to sneeze away Jupiter. If Garou could destroy multiple galaxies, or even just star systems, at the beginning of the fight, he shouldn't be the least bit concerned about someone destroying a planet the size of jupiter.

[@elpopman2055]

They simply destroyed some Stars not the solar systems.. there's a difference between destroying the entire solar system and destroying a single star.. Destroying a Star would Screw over a Solar System over time though.. but to be solar system level you will have to destroy the star and everything within the vicinity within the System.

[@shadelightss]

@@elpopman2055 bro you're appealing to reality

[@_batm.n]

THeres 1 problem, he destroyed qhadrillions of entire galaxies ripping a whole through space endlessly, that in itself is a astonoshing feat but it wouldve needed oxygen to happen since he didnt directly hit galaxies, , he litteraly ripped a whole through space with his bare hands, dont get me wrong , gokusolos opm verse besides saitama but saitamastill effortlessly destroyed quadrillions of galaxies with 1 punch and sneezed away a gasgiant, sorry if you disagree!

[@heyyou9553]

Bro because do you not understand that a sneeze should not be able to destroy a planet?

[@heyyou9553]

@@elpopman2055 goku has no feats above planetary level just numbers and people saying he can so using ur logic goku isn’t even galaxy level?

[@Hollowdude15]

So things did change and great video man :]

[@Savage_Elite799]

i feel like saitama didn't go full power because he promised Tareo he wouldn’t hurt Garou. And that he was only using one hand the whole time when he was fighting Garou

[@Kami-sama.isekai]

Literally Saitama stated that he went or is using 100% full power. But either way after seeing this video he still doesn't beat Goku in DBS let alone DBS manga.

[@shrekinsoltassag8486]

he broke garou is bones and teeths ._.

[@oscar25090]

Also god gave garou but a fraction of his power, Who is the big bad guy of the show. Saitama is meant to beat said God. This is nowhere near his full power.

[@JustTazzzzzz]

@@oscar25090 Goku is about to get a huge power buff as well when he fights frieza

[@latiumemaka2005]

@@Kami-sama.isekai OPM said all he needed was 1 hand to fight against him and was only using 1 hand to fight that whole fight. So he was holding back.

[@thejaredmyers]

this is why this channel is dope, logical arguments presented in understandable ways. GG

[@KennyHenni]

Fr

[@SSIMS]

Cosmic Garou solos Goku with radiation Saitama beats Cosmic Garou facts Saitama solos

[@KennyHenni]

@@SSIMS saitama cant hit goku in mui. No logic or discussion needed. GG ez no re.

[@thejaredmyers]

@@SSIMS completely asinine lmaooo

[@elvis1422]

@@SSIMS nice joke

[@sadburrito6551]

when it comes to scaling i just don’t think about goku anymore. they’ve made dragon ball so overwhelmingly scaled up that it just loses all tension. it’s still really cool and i still love it but i just have no interest in putting someone who’s basically infinitely powerful against a character that mainly deals with issues on a single planet

[@braldoca]

But then you get scenes were goku gets downed with a simple laser gun, it's all super inconsistent.

[@thememeguy2195]

As someone whose a fan of One Punch Man it's the same for me in a way. I don't like watching the "Who wins" because it's either Saitama obviously wins (All Might, Luffy, Whitebeard, etc.) or obviously loses (Superman, Goku, Jiren, etc.). It's also annoying seeing the shorts on KZbin claiming Saitama beats characters way out of league (I've seen someone claim he beats Goku with Negative difficulty unironically, which made realise that 99% of shorts "who wins" will usually be biased bullshit)

[@Unknown-mo6ug]

@@thememeguy2195 I’ve seen someone say saitama is multiversal😐

[@Unknown-mo6ug]

@@braldocaCause he uses ki as durability and got shot while not having it around him.

[@lucasramey6427]

@@Unknown-mo6ug this is mainly a joke but if we go by power scaling through feats in avatar the last airbender we have ty lee who uses a kind of martial arts known as Chi/ki (they're the same thing so the word is interchangeable) Blocking which involves striking pressure points to stop the flow of chi/ki so if we use that feat Ty Lee can strike Goku's pressure points disabling his flow of ki and leaving him defenseless and open to be shot in the heart and killed (keep in mind it is mentioned that ty lee can only do this because she knows so much about the human body and someone could try and argue that "since goku is an alien it wouldn't work on him" however due to the fact that gohan exists making it so scientifically saiyans are close enough to humans that they can interbreed perfectly fine with no repercussions making it so a saiyan is closer to human than an ape is thus the technique would work on him) With all this knowledge we can clearly see that Ty Lee is above goku since she has the ability to essentially one tap him into paralysis which would lead to his death/j

[@kobyalexander7693]

I agree with you that saitama isn't a gag character, but he does live up to his name "one punch man" for example, if you look at both the garou and boros fight saitama eventually ends the fight with one punch, with boros he finally tries and ends him with one serious punch, then garou his power grows to where he beats him with ZERO punches. I believe this has correlation, no matter who he fights even if the being is stronger, saitama grows and grows to the point where he can one shot them. (I now need to brace myself now for the angry Goku tards coming my way)

[@ikeillue8385]

The issue with your theory is the fact that Saitama couldn't one shot Garou initially. He had to grow to get to that point. You also can't say that he will eventually one shot someone who is stronger than he is, since he has never fought anyone stronger than himself. Sure, if the gap is small enough, and the opponent is growing in power slow enough, Saitama could catch up and over take them. However, in the case of Goku, the gap is absolutely astronomical (multi solar system level, vs massively multi universal in base form.), as well as Goku's growth is easily on par, if not massively superior to Saitama's.

[@siggewede1917]

@@ikeillue8385 oh no the angry goku tards

[@coca9397]

Finally I've been saying that Goku absorbed SSG in his base for for years but somehow Saitama fans didn't believe that

[@eghosaekhator3337]

here I fully power scaled saitama's ability to grow and his limitless potential to be a key factor in the fight between him and goku if anyone is interested... evidence number 1: in one punch man manga chapter 56 dr Genus explains about saitama removing his limiter to grow infinitely: "In order to function, every living thing needs to have limitations placed on themselves, or else the immense power of a limitless being would drive them insane, but he( referring to saitama ) had removed his limiter." the part " immense power of a limitless being " refers to a being which had removed it's limiter, consequently, the said being can theoretically grow in power interminably and indissolubly evidence number 2: in one punch man chapter 168: this chapter explains it all pretty pretty clear. At some point during the fight between garou and saitama, both of them were on equal power levels, with each of them becoming stronger at a fast pace. Still, as the battle progressed, Saitama’s potential proved to be far superior to Garou’s, increasing his strength tenfold with each new attack( meaning in seconds ) according to garou: " each and every of his hits are getting stronger, one of these punches is going to kill me at this rate" the part " one of these punches is eventually going to kill me at this rate" is referring to his exponential growth in time, the reason garou wasn't keeping up, wasn't because he can't copy saitama's strength, but rather he can't copy him fast enough, because every time he does that, he is stuck with a weaker version of saitama, this is absolutely insane, it's like unlocking a new saiyan form every second evidence number 3: in the very same chapter (168) the narrator ( the voice of author ) stated: " even now his power is growing, and this time, the only one being able to observe his growth was getting completely left behind" the parts " even now " and " at this time " are referring to saitama had always been growing in power the part " he was completely getting left behind " is very interesting, I'll get to that in a sec, on the next panel the author showed a graph of saitma and garou growing in power, the interesting part is that, based on the graph and the statement I quoted, the more saitama grows in power, the faster saitama grows in power! Ik it sounds weird lol but allow me to explain.... in the graph, there are 2 Variables that are moving in relation to each other, time and power, the power is the y axis and time being x axis, the gradient of changes ( the growth rate: t2 ➖ t1 divided by p2 ➖ p1 ) is also changing with the time variant hence the p(power) and t(time) graphs are bent rather than straight, with those we can literally make a lim function in the graph and prove his rapid growth and limitless potential, since graph is bent, it shows in certain power point, the lim will rise almost along with y axis, we can make a lim function with that which is limx, t divided by x (x → t), Since the function approaches -∞ from the left but +∞ from the right, the limit does not exist. the growth rate having a close gradient to y axis demonstrably proves that not only saitma can grow his power limitlessly but also progressively( needless to say the graph's gradient and x consistency completely annihilats goku's increase in strength with his saiyan forms...duh)and and since it is stated directly in the manga with a reliable narrator, it is Yusuke Murata's own statements, repudiating it is committing death to author fallacy and it's completely invalid and indictable so that's that. evidence number 4: The Virtual Genocide System (VGS) is a headset designed by Dr. Kuseno. The headset is meant to catalog the data and simulates battles between the wearer and monster data stored in VGS. The VGS works by reading the brainwaves of the wearer, and simulates battles between the wearer and monster data stored in VGS. The wearer pictures the scenario and the scene of the fight in their head and VGS will carry it out in the simulation, with the resulting battle is visualized on an external monitor. Another feature of the VGS is the ability to create ghosts of the user. This is done by downloading the data of the user into the VGS and having the user fight his own ghost with the intention of strengthening the user's abilities. When Saitama fights himself from the day before based on the data collected, Saitama defeated himself in a single punch meaning: Saitama became significantly more powerful than he was yesterday, therefore saitama can increase his power even when he is doing nothing( I'm not counting those stupid trainings bc they are nothing is his power lvl, also we always see saitama sitting somewhere and just doing nothing ) this can be interpreted as an allegory that you should always strive to get better and never look back. If I remember, Saitama said something along the lines of “why would myself from yesterday be better than myself from the next day”. THAT, is the whole point of the show and its completely in line with saitama's power system. I can bring you more evidence of his limitless potential and how it far FAR surpasses goku's power increase in his saiyan forms in terms of growth rate( and therefore saitama beating him after a while in their fight is inevitable ) but I think I made my po

[@thatonetemplar]

@@eghosaekhator3337 That's a big wall of text that can be countered in a very small argument. Goku has fought people with this sort of potential before. He would stop Saitama before his growth gets even close to becoming a problem. Seth said this in the video btw.

[@josephhenderson503]

@@eghosaekhator3337 your third point stating that saitama grows faster than goku with no limits means nothing when goku starts the fight leagues above saitama. He was only able to be pushed to that point because garou was around his level of power

[@tempyt7011]

@@eghosaekhator3337 if Saitama gets stronger what stopping Goku from getting stronger have you seen the newest arc people are wishing to become the strongest and goku is able to match them over time so what makes you think only saitama will grow in a fight you satiama fans have the iq of a toddler

[@King_Kurapika18]

@@eghosaekhator3337 not reading allat🤣👎🏼

[@Chickawah]

Yup, Saitama still doesn’t quite have the feats to contend with Goku even post Garou. Maybe things will change once he gets new feats against god, I assume Seth will have to make another update vid when that happens Edit: Me saying “quite” is more so in reference to Saitama still having a lot of feats yet to show us which may actually change the discourse regarding this match up. It wasn’t implying that what he’s currently shown us is anything close to peak Goku.

[@samuel_goopster6600]

I mean it's not even just "not quite". He just gets absolutely shit-stomped by base Goku

[@joshuaregis5550]

Dude he is a downplayer bruh he never even mention saitama infinite time space in all planes of existance he is a downplayer seththeprogrammer knows saitama is 11D it have more writing for saitamam he is a downplayer breh

[@norddorian5791]

"quite" is quite the word you used there goku beeing high 4d is easily over infinitly stronger than saitama

[@myusername3689]

@Xay Saitama is Buu saga level which is multi solar system to galaxy level. Of course DBS is universal to multiversal so yeah Saitama doesn’t stand a chance yet.

[@dillpickle7400]

@@joshuaregis5550 sound like a clown saying that

[@sudeepsarkar3320]

5:43 garou only copied the serious punch of base Saitama & he was never bloodlusted throughout their entire fight. Saitama was trying to save garou the whole time due to his promise to tareo

[@tigerriderminecraftjava5097]

Not trying to save what do you mean by that saitama literally beating the crap out of him. Saitama only promise to tareo that he will beat him and not kill him don't make misinterpretation.

[@jawaun1875]

@@tigerriderminecraftjava5097 his promise to tareo was literally to save garou. Saitama used one hand the entire fight but he did go all out, he just grew to fast in strength for garou to keep up

[@franciscoarzapalozapata4610]

Read the pinned comment pal

[@elipena7349]

So the "Full power" in the manga is not canon

[@kentchristiancabello6236]

saitama cant hold his power or strength back

[@marcel5478]

About the part where saitama apparently blows away the Stars most stars are several million light-years away, so if you were to destroy them it would take us millions of years to even see them disappear from the sky, in fact there are probably stars in the sky today that exploded millions of years ago. So I'd say his power probably just blocked out the Starlight or something

[@RubixKyuub]

That is a good point. How tf does that even work?

[@azoree9299]

How does one block out starlight?

[@callisto1796]

Wouldn’t work because this is fiction

[@Czar684]

Lowballing eh

[@callisto1796]

This is fiction bud just like how we can't go faster than light but Saitama can easily go 1000s of times faster than light

[@xDiViNexInfectedx]

Thing is, only Saitama's attack potency is what needed to increase. Not his speed or durability, he was babying Garou in those regards. In fact, he didn't even take damage, get bruised or bleed from his own attacks that Garou was throwing back at him. Which implies Saitama's durability >>> His attack potency. Another thing, Saitama could certainly reach universal levels of strength. He does have limitless potential of growth as he broke his limiter and the punch he hit Garou with (someone who could destroy a solar system ish.) one shot him while holding back a bit considering Saitama said he didn't wanna kill Garou because he promised Tareo.

[@Ogg_shH35367]

Saitama attack potency is only multi solar system lvl for now

[@xDiViNexInfectedx]

@@Ogg_shH35367 I guess, but he adapted past that while fighting Garou. Multi solar system+ is about right.

[@גוהטנקס]

as for the speed, It was confirmed Goku reached light speed when fighting against frieza in namek. since you yourself have stated how much he grown since then, it would be pretty fair to assume he's about x 4m faster than light speed and this is a lowball.

[@ITZ-MABZ]

bro he was ftl in og db💀

[@EarlobeJuice]

He put on master roshi’s glasses and came back to the same spot for a solar flare in DB. He’s been FTL since then.

[@elvis1422]

@@ITZ-MABZ fax

[@leonmonis107]

Bro has immeasurable speed😩

[@thegreatReaper499]

Goku transcends time so he literally has immeasurable speed.

[@LordChrome375]

Great work Seth! I was surprised with Saitama's new powers and for a moment I thought he was comparable. Until you reminded me what Buuhan could do. Now after the new chapter of Super, the question is. Who can even touch Black Freiza?

[@SuperDababy2]

No one that would care to

[@MildsandThatYac]

Funny because Whis said frieza isn’t even the strongest in the universe

[@SuperDababy2]

@@MildsandThatYac he is, he was probably out of universe when training which is why the wish didn't apply to him (he is clearly stronger than both the people who were given the title and power of the strongest in the universe)

[@stinger5999]

Watch him getting one shot by beerus next chapter smh I have lost all of my hopes for dragon Ball manga

[@ryukishi07thecreator70]

@@MildsandThatYac Broly still exists

[@lxa1818]

You are so hilarious, I love it! Your debates and scaling are top notch, thank you.

[@Hanoj1]

I'm sorry man

[@im_dopestuff]

Thank you so much someone who actually compares feats and not just probabilities.

[@Nthdegree2]

At the end of the day...Saitama wins regardless

[@im_dopestuff]

@@Nthdegree2 I don't think you watched the video you should do so.

[@Nthdegree2]

@@im_dopestuff I did. I'm just saying Saitama technically wins at the long run. Goku is limited, Saitama isn't. Big difference.

[@EnvyLeviathan]

@@Nthdegree2 sayians have no limits either

[@Nthdegree2]

@@EnvyLeviathan That would be true if goku or vegeta was able to pace with beerus and body him but they still can't meaning they are limited.

[@vereornox701]

Glad to see that someone understands that time is a temporal dimension. So, for instance, if you have an extra spatial dimension than the one we experience, or four spatial dimensions, time then becomes the “fifth” dimension. So, you can have a “4D” character, as in they travel through time, or a “4D” character, as in they are able to move in four spatial dimensions, though these two aren’t the same thing. People seem to get stuck on time being THE fourth dimension because of the Theory of Relativity (and I think even works of fiction make this mistake), but even in something with multiple spatial dimensions, such as String Theory (or M-Theory) having 3 spatial dimensions and 7 hyperspace dimensions, time is the eleventh dimension.

[@TheMightOfGeburah]

Temporal Dimensions is a “Time” Dimension. Temporal refers to Time. The 4th Dimension is one dimension of Time. There are higher temporal dimensions such as ones in String Theory giving implications there’s different levels of Time. Time is a Substance, A Concept, The very image of Eternity. The Dimension we think is Time is not Time itself but a temporal thing. SpatioTemporal means things that belongs to SpaceTime. “Temporal” Dimensions implies they all belong to Time not that time is one because that would go against its definition. The SpaceTime of Relativity is 3 Dimensions of Space and 1 Dimension of Time.

[@vereornox701]

@@TheMightOfGeburah I’m well aware that a temporal dimension refers to time, and you should’ve been able to infer that from my comment. And no, String Theory doesn’t imply that there are different levels of time. There’s still only one temporal dimension in String Theory or M-Theory (the one people are usually referring to). A second temporal dimension has been proposed, though that’s the domain of F-Theory. Furthermore, time isn’t a substance. Time is, at the most basic level, a measure of change. It’s also a macro-phenomenon. Space-time just means that time isn’t separate from space, at least for the three traditional dimensions. Also, a temporal dimension doesn’t mean that it belongs to time in that sense, it simply means that it’s related to time. What you’re arguing is, in essence, just semantics. Now, can one make the argument that higher spatial dimensions aren’t part of space-time? Yes, though that’s with the caveat that these higher dimensions exist on a membrane and that space-time is localized on that membrane, as proposed by the ADD model. In that case, these spatial dimensions would be ultimately separate from time. If these dimensions are compact or “curled up”, as many physicists believe, then they’d be at the Planck scale, so again, they wouldn’t interact with time because time is a macro-phenomenon. Could these higher dimensions have their own temporal dimensions? In fiction, yes, though in physics, no. I’d argue that if it’s integrated into a fictional universe, in other words, if space-time isn’t localized, then a fourth spatial dimension would also be considered part of space-time. It’s really up to the writers, though because it’s no longer in the domain of physics. As far as the math goes, additional temporal dimensions haven’t been proposed for each spatial dimension as they’re not necessary. Whether or not they exist is currently anyone’s guess. The crux of my argument was that you could have two different versions of a 4D character that were ultimately different, though the two are often considered the same thing. A good example would be Dr. Paradox from Ben 10, who can not only move through time but also move around quickly by accessing a higher spatial dimension. Anyways, this answer is getting long, and I don’t want to trade paragraphs, so if you want to discuss it further, I’d suggest a different format. If not, have a nice day.

[@brandon_4902]

Well, atleast I know you got your Dimension PHD when you were around 5 years old.

[@qhauvo8313]

Facts! Ima jus act like I know what any of this mean 😁

[@Manusia.satu1]

Fun fact, Ichigo solo both

[@larryfoster8820]

Dragon ball is about getting stronger and defeating stronger opponents through working together. One punch man is about the strongest helping the weakest grow

[@jonathanjoestar275]

That's a nice take

[@BluezDrako]

the hell you mean? 😭

[@thyoexe]

Wonder if he can use hyperspace to scale his way out of these allegationa

[@BluezDrako]

translation is wrong, is actually subspace :v

[@FinalQueue007]

The One Punch Man manga did the Garou vs Saitama fight justice, actually no it was much better than what anyone anticipated honestly.

[@sherbase]

No it was garbage Took away the psychological aspects of the webcomic fight to make it a crappy cliche anime eye candy fight

[@pablogomesoliveira2677]

Garous design is soooo good bro

[@pablogomesoliveira2677]

@@sherbase well I don’t know if it was as bad as you are making it out to be but it’s your opinion and I respect it 👍

[@AlanLiebheart]

Why? It included memory reset and time travel. Two of the worst plot devices ever, the two of them in one chapter. It's worst with the implication that Saitama just created an alternative timeline.

[@FinalQueue007]

@@AlanLiebheart Yeah the ending i wasn't a fan of but the whole fight was just a joy to see unfold.

[@stalinisntproud.7412]

Well Saitama didn't bleed it was actually black rain and also I think that the graph represents the strength of his Punches not his total strength and we can see him rise to his true potential when clashing with god a being which might also be limitless in strength and also to add that he promised Tareo that he won't kill Garou.

[@limlam1375]

Even though he used a serious punch against Garou, he still made a promise that he wouldn't try to kill him. So, we still didn't even see him go all out.

[@willsmith1680]

Its stated in the manga that he's going all out

[@itsmattzed]

And was holding genos' core

[@itsmattzed]

@@willsmith1680 not literally

[@WThroat]

@@itsmattzed You can go all out without killing someone lol.

[@jjcooler6961]

He was still bloodlusted. He had to get stronger to beat him regardless.

[@josephjoestar3631]

that ending sequence was gold. Saitama isn't even slightly a gag character. So many OPM fans and OPM haters just call him a gag character while having no clue what gags even are. Popeye is a gag character. Buggs Bunny is a gag character. Saitama is a serious character. His strength is consistent and ever present, while Buggs Bunny or Popeye could be defeated by a child under the right circumstances. Thank you for taking the time to clarify

[@samuelrebelo9301]

Not rlly, part of his purpose on manga/series is being a comedic strong guy.

[@Yourmom-m7s]

Bugs Bunny and Popeyes could be defeated by a child and defeat outerversal characters at the same time! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@lindaunderling4637]

The biggest feat we have for Saitamas survivability is him surviving his own punches. Like doesn't that mean his strength is less than his overall endurance?

[@user-tu2dh5ro7i]

No. Read the manga. But basically: He gets stronger infinitely. When he's in a fight, he gets stronger faster. When he throws a punch on himself, that punch was thrown a few seconds before it actually hit, and by the time it actually hit he already got stronger than he was when he threw the punch. Garou explains it pretty well with his copying moves. He copied Saitama's punch perfectly, power and all, but during the time between him throwing the perfect copy and landing the hit, Saitama had already gotten strong enough that the punch Garou perfectly copied was already "weak".

[@devincognito8932]

@@user-tu2dh5ro7i the issue with the statement “read the manga” is that translation errors or interpretation errors are all too common. You broke down what happened in the manga better than anyone I’ve seen on here or on Reddit. I’ve seen others attempt to break down this scene and it’s as though they read an entirely different chapter.

[@tristanboss7319]

A human would normally survive when another human with equal strength punches them. Garou's attacks actually affected him at the end of 167 and start of 168, it's just not a big deal.

[@lowestmoose5357]

@@tristanboss7319 His attack didn't affect him at all, he still let the fight without a scratch. As it sits Saitama is still completely invulnerable to damage and I think he will stay that way until he fights god. As soon as he takes damage it is game over Goku wins but until then eh.

[@R1kual]

​@@lowestmoose5357 Broly was the same way he didn't start taken damage until way later on. Saitama is pretty much a weaker version of broly so he will take damage if you overwhelm him.

[@a_monayyyyyy]

"In character" Saitama would experience a real fight for the first time ever and truly give it his all.

[@sammy6805]

In character he would get 1 shot before giving it his all

[@NoConsequenc3]

@@sammy6805 there is no feat against Saitama to imply that literally anything could 1 shot him. Cope.

[@sammy6805]

@@NoConsequenc3 there is no feat that puts him at 1/1000000 of Goku's power and he has stated to have a limit and went beyond it because he has a limit cope, cope harder

[@gokusama4445]

​@@sammy6805 he has a limit? Is that why garou states at 3:00 that he's strong infinitely strong, cope harder lol saitama has infinite power and would be able to match goku until he runs out of power and dies lol goku has limits while saitama doesn't. Saitama slams the fodder verse come back to debate with me when saitama finally takes damage atleast then you would have a base to stand on 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂. Also come back when goku hasn't died 3 times or more one, by being shot by a weak laser gun. At this point you should be trying to debate whether goku could even damage saitama left alone kill him, this debate is over goku loses in one punch he gets slept 😴 💤 like how raditsz a wall level fodder packed his weak ass🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@sammy6805]

@@gokusama4445 is that fact? Cause I remember a certain bald guy saying he reached his limits? And if they are both infinity strong they should stalemate for eternity unless you are saying satimas infinite is infinitely stronger the garos infinite lol

[@projectmessiah]

Tbh it was a big power up but I think people are over hyping how much stronger Saitama became.

[@Apex-vj2ef]

How do you overhype infinity

[@shadowthelegend100]

Buisness as usual then

[@gokay2delen636]

@@Apex-vj2ef because it wasnt infinity

[@solo8123]

@@Apex-vj2ef 😂😂😂damn goku has multiple infinity statements

[@derkaffeenator9172]

@@shadowthelegend100 best comment 😂😂😂💀💀💀

[@joshuaadames1153]

THANK YOU FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS

[@theconmantube3449]

Hurray! Now saitama gets to the buu arc, it WAS just the saiyan arc, now he bumped up 3

[@aotissax2878]

True he could prolly hang with ssj3 gotenks

[@313Yuta]

@@aotissax2878 yeah or even the first appearance of ultimate gohan

[@PeakPeakPeakPeakPeak]

Nope, saitama is only first form freeza level

[@erikgalvagni7409]

@@PeakPeakPeakPeakPeak cap, even Seth basically says otherwise

[@pablogomesoliveira2677]

@@erikgalvagni7409 I mean it depends what first form freeza level he says ( I am talking about the new chapter ) I mean hey he didn’t say first form freeza from THE FREEZA SAGA 😂

[@mortexia]

Some Points of interests. Saitama time travel consist of two things. Beyond perfect copying and his insane stats. I believe when he head chops Garou the first time, Garou remarked that Saitama is actually copying his techniques. Which leads towards Garou showing saitama an imperfect technique which Saitama perfected. And his stats/graph represent saitama having a greater exponential growth, but more to the point the growth is happenning in a fight while Goku requires some combination of fight/training to get to that level. That said I don't think the fight would result in a win since endgame goku and exponential growht Saitama would stop before the collateral damage get's too great. And if Goku takes too long to ramp up Saitama would get to his level since exponential growth is still exponential growth considering that it's exponential in context to a fight. Additionally a lot of the amp up power stuff are techniques that Saitama can copy, which limits the period where it'll give any benefit to goku

[@dr.schlump]

Watch the whole video, he talks about Saitama growth as an argument

[@punkydesu5110]

Just no, Saitama would die after one punch

[@mortexia]

@@punkydesu5110 Welp it's one punch man off course :V

[@acaelusstormbringer2664]

Enjoyed the video, I definitely think Goku wins against Saitama at least right now but I feel like you didn't give Saitama the credit he deserves. While I did agree with most of the things in the video there are just some thoughts I wanted to point out in his fight with Garou. The first being that while Saitama may have been angry I don't think he was "bloodlusted". He had Genos' core in one of his hands and probably had to take great care to not destroy it, I'm sure you can agree that he or Garou easily could've done so simply from the impact of their fist or something else. I think if he was truly in bloodlust mode he wouldn't care about that and fight with both hands. Another thing which I would have liked to see expanded on a bit more is the rate of Saitama's growth. While Goku is definitely levels above him I think you downplayed the rate at which Saitama grows. He is not just going up a couple of levels during his fight with Garou. His growth is skyrocketing, I think this is eident in the fact that even though Garou was constantly copying him Saitama was always above him and he even states that it was like a caged insect being played with by a child. The third thing I would have liked to see to help determine Saitama's speed would have been his omnidirectional punch. I believe this would have been a much better way to help determine his speed rather than him time traveling. As you said his time travel is more like an ability rather than a speed feat. The final thing is the time travel ability, I'm not sure if I am just misunderstanding you but what I think you are saying is that it took both Garou and Saitama together in order to do this. If that is the case then I think that's wrong, Garou was merely demonstrating it to Saitama so he could copy it and Garou even states himself that he is unable to do it. Again I enjoyed the video and believe Goku does win against Saitama but I just wanted to voice that I don't believe you gave Saitama the credit he deserves.

[@SirBean1274]

Seth: “bloodlusted” Saitama to Garou: I was not trying to kill your cause of my promise to the kid.

[@orabijuu8550]

Garoud did went back to the past and said to tareo to wakeup and stand up. But he cant touch that past unlike what sitama did

[@iLordxKage]

Look here I love OPM is one of my fav anime top 10, ik how strong this man is, this man is a beast but he is not at the level of Goku or Vegeta yet, maybe in the fight against he will be around the same level or maybe not bc goku and vegeta are gonna get even stronger once the next arc starts again, so I'm sorry to say this but I don't think saitama will ever be in the level of goku or vegeta but i do know for a fact that he will one of the strongest character in anime history Strongest character in anime history 1. Zeno 2. Grand priest 3. Angels (dbs) 4. God of destructions 5. Gogeta /vegito 6. Goku 7. Vegeta 8. Black Frieza 9. Gas 10. Granolah 11. Moro 12. Gohan Beast 13. Cell max 14. Broly (dbs) 15. Jiren I'm pretty sure there's even more characters but yeah I'll say saitama is in the list too of one of the strongest characters in anime

[@eliavlevy8254]

gotta love all those multipliers on goku to give us the same seemable power in animation. doesnt look stronger just looks different.

[@DripZ_2099]

There was never a statement that he *had* to get stronger though. Genos literally stated that there couldn't be any possibility of Saitama losing to Garou. He was using 1 hand while trying to not kill him. He clearly wasn't going all out. He just raised his level of power to the point he could clap him with his eyes closed. And no one is addressing that Saitama has power over causality lol. EDIT: I never expected this many people to respond but I'd like to say this. Saitama vs Garou is kinda like Vegeta fighting Cabba for the first time. We all know Vegeta is way stronger yet they seemed somewhat evenly matched. That's because Vegeta adjusted his strength to teach a young Saiyan how to fight better. Do you see the difference? Just like some of the people who replied I regularly fight my 8 and 6-year-old cousins and I'm way older than them. All I do is knock them back and push them away, just because I could use 100% of my strength doesn't mean I have to or will do that. I barely even try against them and end up winning ofc. Am I "going all out" when I ramp up my strength? No, not at all.

[@animenerd4651]

Did u not watch the full vid my guy, how can u say that "sAItAma iSn'T tRyInG" when he clearly stated that he doesn't have to hold back, he couldn't just causally one shot garou to take him down he had to use more and more power to take down garou for good. And he usually use one hand anyway cause hes not a skillful fighter he just relay on hes raw strength and speed. So to say that "hE WAsN'T tRyIng" is kinda dumb to the point that he literally saw hes best friend get murder in cold blood, and that's supposed to be a joke??

[@KaiserTrigger]

@@animenerd4651 "He doesn't have to hold back" But he chooses to. Get the difference? It's kind of dumb to assume that someone can't choose to hold back just because they don't have to. I don't have to throw a rock at half strength. But I can if I don't feel like throwing it at full strength.

[@Mwgsse]

@@animenerd4651 saitama already long lost his humanity, him getting emotional when a friend dies is very absurd.

[@Bobby_Sauce.]

@@animenerd4651 Did u not read the manga he still wasn’t going on out since he said he wouldn’t kill him and all of this was with one hand he still was holding back

[@8thsheet407]

@@animenerd4651 lol saitama vs garou is like me 18yr old and my 7 yr old brother fighting i could literally punch push carry him if i want to, but I won't lolz 😆 I'm just adjusting my strength to stop him from lashing out. Lol. But , seriously i'm not even trying kinda like with saitama and garou

[@sanstheblaster2626]

I feel like there is no point in this debate because Dragon Ball will just never end. Goku has a power advantage, and that power advantage will NEVER disappear because he will just keep getting stronger. This video is a perfect example of this: right now, Saitama has arguably demonstrated a power level comparable to late DBZ. But now DBS exists. Even if Saitama eventually reaches Goku's current level, Goku will be infinitely stronger by that point. Saitama may be hypothetically capable of infinitely growing in power in his own universe, but Goku is DEFINITELY infinitely growing in power because OUR universe exists and we *demand* that Goku keeps getting stronger. Meanwhile, Saitama's infinite growth is limited by the fact that One Punch Man *is* going to end at some point. Let's be real here, there's no outlasting Dragon Ball. We WILL see Saitama's last punch, but we will probably not live enough to see Goku's last punch. Saitama will just never catch up.

[@WALTER-zw2tc]

Dragon ball will end wdym?💀

[@aminerouabah6557]

Yeah in 15 years 💀

[@jazon1407]

@@WALTER-zw2tc nope db ip is a money generator, u know what companies love? thats right, money

[@fretzeel9821]

@@jazon1407 crazy I will die without knowing who's stronger but knowing Goku why he deserves to win is through his effort fighting stronger opponent and that's basically why he deserves to win saitama cost a lot he even travelled back in time to save 1 dearest person unlike Goku he's character is way beyond aside from his strength

[@killersavitar149]

Eh, thats only if you take feats and not actual power, say god is shown to have ultimate power the bleeps idk a planet out of existance, would you consider that planetary? or would you consider him to be an all powerful god? It is said in the comics saitamas power just goes up when he feels emotion, when he fights someone strong, so that means as long as gokus strong he will become stronger then him over and over and over, its never ending even without the same feats.

[@JJ.Picasso]

This just puts into perspective how unimaginably powerful these characters are. Especially goku the scaling in DBS is kinda wonky and not well written but it is consistent.

[@pablogomesoliveira2677]

Do you think black freeza is stronger than beerus ?

[@carlosr5485]

@@pablogomesoliveira2677 honestly no because we saw Beerus bodie ultra ego Vegeta as well with little effort not to say freeza didn't do the same but the circumstances where different. Beerus is going to be as strong as he need to be because "story" wise top Goku with mui should of been above Beerus considering that the clown god was somewhere equal to Beerus and jiren was stated to be stronger then him and Goku beat him. Power scaling is bonkers in dbs so I just go with Beerus is going to stay on top until he need to be

[@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy]

He just keeps becoming higher and higher into multiversal. If they dont statt giving him feats soon, he'll be multiversal forever and multiversal is a pretty mid tier when it comes to fiction as a whole.

[@dontmindme55]

Fr db scaling is just really weird

[@scotcheggable]

Dragonball power scaling just flat doesn't make sense any more. we're at the point where if Goku has an involuntary reflex to anything then the earth should be destroyed. If screaming can tear apart spacetime back in buu then current Goku should be rending the fabric of reality just by powering up. Consistency is a myth, unless the universe itself is also power scaling alongside them.

[@valerwolf255]

I love your videos and I love these two characters and their respective universes but I agree with you on this completely. Power to Dragon Ball!

[@P3wP3wPanda]

3:11 "and the limitlessly growing stronger statement we actually see being highly linear" Shows a graph of exponential growth

[@Sundude05]

which means with more time he will grown even stronger, and he was only using 1 arm but whatever

[@deeznutz9131]

@@Sundude05 i love how using one arm, is really big difference, dude the guy literally been destroying shit with an arm, it certainly doesn't mean he still can't go any faster or stronger at all, goku fought trunks with ONE FINGER, but saitama using an arm is wayyyyyyy better

[@asdergold1]

@@Sundude05 Especially if someone stronger than him fights him like Goku fights any and everyone. And that was just with Garou constantly copying and matching his power. Still no real damage done to Saitama or anything, but his clothes sure got destroyed this time. Point is, he could easily get to Goku's level if someone of that level bothered fighting him at around his level until he got there. Otherwise, well, since OPM isn't nowhere as silly with its powerscaling it ain't happening.

[@ДюсековИльяс]

@@asdergold1 yeah. Remember when Vegeta was surprised at 9000 power? Good times, good times.

[@Sundude05]

@@deeznutz9131 oh trunks scary... said no one ever, but that's also not the main point, the point was that even though he was still stronger, it is exponential, meaning that he could grow almost infinity better you know, how an exponential graph works, though if you passed idk algebra you would know that

[@monothemonkey]

I love when he uses the death note theme when he talk about debates...its intriguing and he kills debate at the same time.

[@luppy777]

W

[@robertovargas5839]

I remember someone saying "saitama destroyed a whole planet with a sneeze, gee thats like beerus level" i don't blame him for thinking that but it is dragan ball fault, people were able to destroy planets way before sayan saga but they just keep showcasing it as a big feat even in super.

[@september758]

Now that i think of it, the first display of someone destroying something of that size, was likely piccolo destroying the moon in a single beam in the oozaru saga, and considering he wasnt shown being tired, he was most likely capable of doing so much worse

[@infernus4750]

golden freezer introduced trying to destroy earth, WHILE TIRED, Man touched the ground and began to destroy the planet, if it wasn't for whis, earth wouldn't exist. (not counting dragon balls ofc)

[@zerotext782]

No the people saying that just don't know that beerus when he destroyed ( multiple btw) planets with a sneeze He wasn't even awake so it wouldn't even be him on 5% lmao

[@TheDangerNoodle]

@@september758 not even. Roshi blew up the moon in OG Dragonball way before Piccolo did it in Z.

[@jasomega2446]

True

[@clinged2711]

Even after the allegations this video is still slapping harder than last time.