What Will I Do About My Guard Dog?

[@GoneToTheSnowDogs]

Yes, that 100% should have been a HUGE red flag to NOT breed this dog. Thank you for educating people on this, and thank you for doing the right thing and fixing Abby. Toby has an amazing temperament, and instinct, and would make a great father to the right female, but sadly, Abby isn't it. We live and learn! Thank you again, for being so responsible!

[@ilikeminecraftgaming9331]

Hiii Gone To the Snow Dogs!Love your videos!(:

[@fluffybunny8157]

did he fixing addy?

[@Night-ud4ew]

YES! I actually learned my Czech working line GSD that I wasn't planning to breed to begin with, but figured if I got the right health testing done and he ended up being a perfect example for his breed disposition wise (his conformation is pristine - as a puppy at least, and his legs are of course not overly extended) that I COULD breed him if I so saw fit and vetted any females beforehand expecting the same standards I already had for my boy, and then he started to develop what may be an umbilical hernia himself (getting it checked at the vets, it's an extremely small bubble but is right over where his umbilical cord was) and now that "maybe so" has got a screeching halt on it, especially after realizing his breeder (who I thought was a lot more reputable, live and learn) mentioned she saw "a bubble" on several of his siblings but it was just "fat pushing through the softer tissue" and it all clicked in my head. Jeez.

[@user3016]

Great point about not breeding the dog. Lets hope Prancing Pony Farm from Lenmore California does better next time.

[@tigerwoman4411]

Toby will be horrible father!!!!!!!!

[@phoebec53]

Have you considered training Abby to be your primary cattle guardian dog and leaving Toby to guard the birds? I believe you said in your previous videos that Abby has herding instincts and she can't really get away with messing with the cattle. If you intend to expand your cattle herd this could be a good option.

[@stoocy]

woah i never really thought about it this way. that’s a really great idea, i hope Morgan considers this!!

[@zamzar2]

Should Morgan separate them one to the bird and one to the cattle. .. that's work

[@sarahfijnvandraat8152]

I agree I hope he see this @GoldShawFarm

[@bonnieharris8855]

Thing is, the cattle don't need a guardian. They are their OWN guardians.

[@gingerbaker4579]

She is potentially rather worthless as a livestock guardian (cattle) dog too. She could potentially attack any newborn calves. There are poorly bred "livestock guardian" dogs - dogs that should be sterilized like Abbey was rather than being allowed to reproduce - that become too possessive of calves to the point that they will literally drive away mothers.

[@mrsmp2193]

I think you did the responsible thing. I'm sure with long term training she'll be great at the farm but for breeding, you did the right thing.

[@iloveowls90]

Not to mention the hernia she had which.

[@lovawaterlord8815]

I think she cant be breeded now some she have been fixed.

[@joshnelson476]

Yes good decision but will you get another dog and try to continue with breading Toby

[@Cate7451]

@@joshnelson476 funny typo n, Josh.

[@maggiejacques37292]

I wish that Kim at prancing pony would have been more reliable with all these health issues

[@dreamstarfarm]

If you ever decide to bring another pup on for breeding, I ethically breed Maremmas in Arizona with thorough health and genetic screenings. We had a litter of nine super healthy, gorgeous babies earlier this year, and we expect our next litter later next year. Happy to chat with you about it any time.

[@dadstiny_]

ooooo if there’s a way, try to email him or send him a direct message on whatever social media he’s on

[@KaitlynBurtonISaGOD]

Bump

[@0romanova]

I hope he sees this and considers it!

[@YumiChobits]

I hope he sees you!!

[@venussky983]

dont mind me just hopefully boosting this comment..

[@amazinggrace392]

A friend of mine took on a young Maremma that had been trained to guard a mob of rescue kangaroos. She was not very good at it and needed a new home. At her new home, she started guarding the chickens and the horses. If a horse was not well, she would sit near the yard and watch over it. Anyway, a few years down the track, she disappeared for a night. They found her the next day in the bush and she followed them home. She had something to eat and promptly disappeared again. They found her in the same spot and realised she was guarding an injured kangaroo. I guess, it just takes a bit longer for some dogs to understand what they’re supposed to do.

[@cellistry]

That's so sweet. She knew what she had to do.

[@hexslayer363]

Sweet but very rare it's not exactly going to happen with Abby now is it

[@blueraven0075]

That’s great but it’s so stupid for people to think that a dog will automatically do something because of their genetics. Owners need to actually train their dogs in the way dogs can understand. I don’t see a good relationship with this guy between either of his dogs for real. It takes clarity and consistence. If he actually had a good relationship, he wouldn’t need the leashes. He’s have an e-collar. Not saying that’s his fault, but it is his fault for thinking about genetics so strongly when training is way more of the point.

[@linabina4832]

Side note: if your vet confirms they considered Abby’s hernia surgery nonelective, contact the California Attorney General. California law does have a statute that prohibits breeders from knowingly selling dogs with illnesses that “require hospitalization or non elective surgical procedures.” A responsible breeder, if they did not know the dog had a genetic disposition for hernias, would not continue to breed the dogs involved and would spay/neuter the puppies and adopt them out. I know you may not want to get tangled up in a legal battle, but what they are doing is incredibly irresponsible, unethical, and potentially illegal. Sorry that this happened. I hope you are able to find another Mirenna breeder who is as ethical as Toby’s was.

[@janicemorelock5791]

I completely agree. The same thing happened to me years ago, but with a different breed. When I took my little girt to a reputable breeder for the service of her little guy, she said no, and pointed out several reasons why Honey was not a good mom dog. She is a little lover, sweet and playful, and I still have her.

[@bracksza]

he straight up got scammed. This is a huge issue here in South Africa and he unfortunately fell for it hook line and sinker. The breeder knew Abby was defective in many ways - but still wanted to make a quick buck.

[@bonnieharris8855]

@@janicemorelock5791 THAT is a responsible breeder.

[@ignightroad]

@@bracksza Not necessarily: sometimes hernias just APPEAR in healthy dogs. Not saying he didn't get scammed but for an AKC rare breed bred to ANOTHER rare AKC breed, chances are she just got unlucky. However, since it seems MOST of the puppies had it, yeah, just an irresponsible breeder looking for a quick buck. My Mom-in-law breeds dobermans and both of the bitches have Von Willebrand disease, breeds to high-end studs whose owners are none the wiser.

[@Romyislief]

He needs to see this!

[@haleywhitten1947]

Also I’d like to add, I think Abby would be great with the cattle, as she shows natural herding instinct. So while she isn’t fitting the poultry guarding, or the breeding requirements, I still think she fits in well and should be put to work where she is thriving. She can be the cattle girl.

[@andream4452]

That's what I was thinking. Maybe when Morgan gets more cattle she can be a helper and herd them when he has to move the cattle. It just going to take a bit for her to learn to herd cattle is a good thing but herd birds is not a good thing.

[@missychan63]

A lifestyle guardian dog should NEVER show any type of "herding" instinct! Too many people think that just because a dog works with livestock, it's automatically a herding dog... The worst thing you can ever do with your LGD is try to teach them how to herd. You never want your guard dog telling your flock what to do and where to go... That's not their job and you're just confusing them. Their job is protection, and the only time they should be moving a herd is to get them away from danger such as a snake. All other times they are there to chase away predators, not herd the animals.

[@kademasterson9705]

@@missychan63 I don't think they'd ever train Abby to be a proper herding dog, Morgan's property isn't suited for it anyways. I think they just mean teaching Abby some basic herding and cattle skills so she can minimize escapees and keep an eye on the cows more than anything.

[@cheshireisghosting8338]

@@missychan63 She already has shown herding instinct, apparently its more commen in female dogs, theres really no point in arguing that this person commented because "too many people think LGDs can also herd and theyre uneducated on livestock dogs" because she has attempted to herd the poultry many times. Also she apparently mainly grew up around longhorns so that points to her being better around cattle, it just makes more sense for her. No one trained her to do this or is trying to confuse her, its what she done for a while. Plus there is a chance she might not even be full maremma since the breeder seems unreliable. She does not seem naturaully suited for being a guard dog at all and much better for herding and hearing more about how she was raised just kinda hammers that in.

[@eriikuuuh]

Very true!

[@dogsfromthecity]

I agree with your decision. Breeding is not only a matter of charisma. If she doesn't have what it takes at early age to show guardian traits up to your standards, it is a fair decision. That is what it is to be a good breeder for purpose and shape based on what u want to produce.

[@movingforward2570]

I wouldn't breed her with that genetic issue

[@Jeremy33199]

Dogs have to be trained sometimes... you are discriminating???

[@ANPC-pi9vu]

@@Jeremy33199 Uh, yeah, you are supposed to discriminate in breeding. She also has the problem of the umbilical hernia and the fact that the breeder she came from turned out to be less reputable than he thought. Breeding pure bred dogs is a big responsibility.

[@dogsfromthecity]

If u understand training and breeding, you know that training doesn't fix everything. And some things just have to be natural from their genetic traits for their purpose.

[@lynnbetts4332]

True. There is too much indiscriminate breeding in dogs, horses, and in my world, alpacas. Not all males are good enough to be studs. Not all females have quality traits you want to pass on. Someone once said, in regard to horses. A 'nice' stud, will make a fabulous gelding.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

I know basically every video you have gives off the same vibe, but it's these especially where you accept the hands you've been dealt and make the best of them that prove unquestionably that you are a good man at heart. And Abby is always a good dog at heart as well.

[@ardesyvonne9406]

I actually had a similar experience when I got an Australian Shepherd from a breeder whom I had an amazing dog from 16 years ago. It was in fact a new breeder and apparently different ethical practices. After getting what I hope a dream dog like my last one, it was a nightmare. The puppy had been over bred and we clashed constantly. So much that I felt I was doing a disservice to the dog who I didn’t bond with. A friend of mine had recently lost her dog to old age and I offered her my puppy. She of course said yes to a pure bred and it was happily ever after. I think that if you struggle too much and have tried everything to make it work, sometimes it just isn’t a fit and perhaps it’s better for the dog to be someone who would connect better with them. It is a sore subject for me so I hope I’m not judged for sharing this story for this first time.

[@ButterflyBox89]

I think you acted responsibly, dogs have a very strong bond with owners and it can be like people. You have to ‘like’ the dog, personalities can clash sometimes.

[@micheledix2616]

It sounds like you made an excellent decision both for yourself and the well being of the puppy who I am sure is now in their forever home and a perfect fit for the new owner. Well done

[@meganbentley5194]

Listen, if people are going to judge you for putting the dog first (especially with a happy ending), that says so much more about them than you. Don't worry too much about it. You could've drawn it out and done irreparable harm to the both of you

[@susanschultz8142]

You did the right thing. You made sure the dog was placed with someone that was the right match. I hope you eventually found the right dog for you.

[@colliecoform4854]

You did the right thing for your friend and for the dog. Obviously the dog was not a good fit and you both would have been miserable.

[@jonathantanner7083]

I think it's also important to recognize that even if Abby isn't the best guard dog she also helps Toby out just being a part of his pack, giving him companionship and someone to play with which is really important to help manage stress and improve longevity in dogs.

[@ANPC-pi9vu]

Having more than one of them also will be even better for warding off large predators and those obnoxious trespassing hunters and their poorly trained hounds.

[@thatonedog819]

And as back up for predators

[@theresahudson5575]

Morgan, veterinarian's daughter here. Congratulations on your good decision. Watching this video I was thinking - "Abby is still a puppy, she is still in training. Too early to really know her guardian skills". I think you had an exceptional LGD in Toby who set the bar pretty high for future dogs on Gold Shaw farm. The genetic umbilical hernia makes your decision not to breed her very appropriate. Spaying her might (MIGHT) also reduce some rambunctiousness. Just a thought. I so respect all you have done and your terrific communication ability which allows us to share it!

[@TammyJerkChicken]

I was just thinking the same about hopefully helping with her energy! Only time will tell

[@Not_Dead_Yet]

Agreed. Different situation, but I had some set backs with training/behavior in one of my giant breed dogs (dog coming into social maturity, covid puppy, and my first in 20+ yrs that had a hard time with it). I'm good friends with the breeder of both of my dogs and it really just took some "take a step back, relax. You can work through this" discussions with her to set me back on the right training track with them and setting him up for success. Additionally, there are a lot of reasons to scrub a dog from a breeding program and they are all valid depending on your views. It can be structural, genetic, temperament, etc. I have had several males in my breed that I had thought I may breed in the future, and I have decided not to for various reasons. In my case, they are all pets 100% first, show/breeding dogs second - that's just a fun thing to do (show) with your dog and, if they are up to it, to help the breed produce better dogs.

[@user_angelmum]

Having her spayed also will give her a longer healthier life span Lower her risk of cancers as well

[@joanneb3524]

I agree. As a former raiser for guide dog puppies, our portion of training was roughly 18 months (depending on the dog's temperament) and their time under the pro-training was variable too. I still have hope for Abby, she IS a good dog....and some just take longer.

[@Mistfall254]

I would also wait to neuter her until she is mature in a year so in 7 mo or so just 2 make sure she is sound in bone structure

[@uppityupshaw]

At first I was like, "Give her a chance!" But after hearing the concerns about the breeder, this is probably the best move for everyone. Wishing a speedy recovery to Abby dog!

[@shauxuhrwilsongrim]

Yeah, there's no telling if she has more underlying problems if the breeder wasn't doing things properly.

[@littlegreenclementine]

questions about the breeder also make me suspect that maybe Abby isn't 100% maremma as well. Glad Morgan is planning on keeping her and working with her though.

[@bluefish239]

@@littlegreenclementine Yeah I kind of wonder that too, my understanding for LSGD's generally is that they are territorial and only really friendly and protective with the people and kinds of animals they are responsible for, with a low prey drive, and a high level of independence . So it's been really suspect to me that Abbey has been displaying all these "great" herding instincts (prey drive).

[@shauxuhrwilsongrim]

@@littlegreenclementine Maybe Morgan should do a DNA-test for Abby too. While it doesn't necessarily matter anymore if she is a purebred maremma since she won't be used for breeding, but like with Toby-dog, the test can show some health results. And if the test shows that Abby not being purebred, maybe Morgan can take some legal action against the breeder if he wishes, since that would show proof that they, well, don't sell what they claim they do. I also wonder if there would be any inbreeding or other problems.

[@bluefish239]

@@leykimayri They live with and guard sheep and other hoofed stock. It sounds like you are mistakenly of the belief that "sheep dog" means their job is herding when it is not, and would be undesirable for the breed to exhibit "herding" instincts.

[@UpandOvertheMoo]

I would like to add to the chorus of voices about what a great decision this is. She's just not the best option to breed but I'm glad to know she's still a beloved part of the farm. I'm waiting for the Abby Teeshirt to come out!

[@table004]

I would also do a DNA test on her to make sure she's 100% Meremma just for peace of mind. She's a very sweet dog and will mature as time goes on. Love your channel!

[@Moped_Mike]

Dog dna tests are very inaccurate, look it up

[@beckyshell4649]

At this point, I don't see the point in doing a DNA test. She is not fit for breeding because of the hernia problem. If I found out my dog was not pure I would be mad for sure after I had gone to such effort in time and money, but at this point what could be done about it. I doubt the breeder would make it right unless he sued her. That would be a difficult process considering they are cross country. I would just cut my losses and keep her as a nonbreeding farm dog. She will probably calm down as she matures. If she doesn't work out I would try to find her a home as a pet.

[@violetsb7000]

agreed, when i first saw her ive noticed how different she really does look to toby. I know shes from CALIFORNIA but her coat is so much thinner and lighter then toby's

[@table004]

@@beckyshell4649 I agree - I should have added to my comment that they might want to do a DNA test just for peace of mind but not necessarily share the info on YT. She will calm down and be a very good dog as she gets older.

[@mageofdoomsie1598]

@@violetsb7000 Unfixed males like Toby will have thicker fur due to their testosterone production.

[@shorterstax]

It is the worst feeling in the world when you feel like you've done your research on being ethical in your practice and then realize later down the line it may not have been. Thankful you found out and are continuing to do your best!!

[@bornicks2]

If he could find issues now, he could have find them before getting Abby.

[@shorterstax]

@@bornicks2 wow you sound like a perfect human being. Science must study you as you are one of a kind.

[@FukaiKokoro]

He really should have gone in person. That’s the issue I have. Because when you’re in person you’ll figure it out way faster.

[@bornicks2]

@@shorterstax I have been a librarian for 35 years. I know how to do research.

[@Aezaz]

@@bornicks2 still not a single book in all those years at the library could teach you how not to be judgemental.

[@jd9351]

Right decision Morgan. You can get another dog for training and breeding. And Abby will still have her job as a friend to the calves and any other large animals you get in future.

[@privateer2584]

Yeah, and he's gonna need at least one additional dog in the future. Toby getting sick shows how close the farm is to being defenseless. Abby will probably offer some protection but Morgan needs 2 Tobys in case one is out of action for a few days.

[@scarcity1234]

@@privateer2584 the 5 foot electrical fence is defenceless. I swear half the people here dont know anything about farms at all

[@IbelongtoJesus.]

@@scarcity1234 of course,,,, maybe half of the people watching probably are not farmers,,,, we watch because we love Morgan, and his farm

[@robertmcauslan6191]

@@scarcity1234 5 foot fence won't stop flying predators or deer from eating the fruit trees. Dog is more likely to deter those.

[@scarcity1234]

@@robertmcauslan6191 the goddam deer are not going to fly across the electric fence. Maremmas are not that good against aerial predators. If he had an owl population living near his farm the casualty rate would be much worse

[@salo6724]

Your choice is grounded in solid moral convictions with both animal welfare and ethical breeding in mind, I hope people see that and learn from it. Wishing Abby a good recovery!

[@chickendrake9053]

It's so nice to see someone taking breeding seriously. It's hard to make that decision, but I'm glad you did, also glad you haven't given up on her, she just has a different path then before.

[@TheHotRefrigerator-]

Man it’s so good to hear you’re not jumping into a bad decision and still training Abby you are such a good, moral person can’t wait for the next video!

[@janpack1569]

You hit the jackpot when you got Toby. Unfortunately any dog after that is going to never compare.

[@christopherkidwell9817]

Bingo. Toby is the exception to the rule... not the rule itself.

[@canicten]

He should have bought toby from the same breeder but they would be genetically related

[@VonPatzy]

I’m not normally a fan of breeding - but when it comes to working dogs (who actually work) this is how breeding works ideally. He isn’t the exception he’s the goal and the standard which makes him ripe for fathering another generation because he has both physical and temperamental desired markers. The same would be done with a mother. Now a “perfect” mother with Toby would have a litter that contained desired outcomes and less desired - rinse repeat. It’s how we have breeds with human tooled skills in the first place.

[@cleverusername_smthngsmthn7731]

This shouldn't be taken as offensive. History and stats tell. Bad behavior is a sign of inefficient or poor training.

[@jellofish1455]

Yeah. Toby was such a nice dog and he does need to step up to the plate and work hard to train her.

[@Treasacello]

I think you made the right decision (not that my opinion should count). For rare breeds, it's even more important not to pass along genetic faults so that the breed in general gets stronger. I'd probably still do the CERF and OFA tests on both dogs, so that if any other owners of related Mirimas need them, you have them. (yes, they cost a bit, but in rare breeds, information can save a lot of pain and heartache down the road- and yes, I have owned a rare breed or two) As for her abilities, It's true, she's a bit more focused on birds than you'd like, but from what you've showed us, she's an excellent cattle dog. She's smart and wants to please, so I think she'll get there eventually.

[@openminds8765]

"(not that my opinion should count)" that is one of the best lines I have read on a comment of any KZbin to date. Your kindly worded and educated thoughts are a value to the community but in general it's just one persons opinions and should be taken that way. Not forcing your theories or thoughts on a topic is important to the positive energy of world - Thanks for being kind and lets hope your example ripples out to the world (I know it resonated for me).

[@ishill85]

the breed will never get stronger so long as it remains "pure"bred, it's a constantly shrinking genetic pool, you keep dipping into the same pool it won't be deep enough to swim in at all.

[@Jyslinn]

When I bought my male Belgian Malinois, I should have realized something was up when the folks that sold them didn't show us (and that's all the buyers) the parents. They had all the papers and we decided that we wanted to get a female and breed them because we love the breed, and wanted to have two good bloodlines. The difference between the dogs, with my male being one, kind of bothered me so, I went online to a facebook group and talked to them. They recommended I do a genetic testing because it turns out the woman who chastised me the most about my male, actually was the breeder of his mother. And guess what ... instead of a Malinois, I had a full blooded GSD. Not only that, some kind folks (and boy, I had one nasty witch giving me grief about not knowing the difference between the two breeds), informed me the woman was known for lying about her dogs. She also changed the name of her kennel because of so many complaints. As far as it went, the AKC didn't do a blasted thing about her. I wouldn't give up my male for anything but the breeding idea ended right there. It was also recommended that I don't breed my boy because he has some aggression issues that can be inherited by his puppies. So, long story short, we made the same decision. You did the right thing.

[@jfkst1]

As a canine handler, the absolute last breed non-professionals should be breeding is Malinois.

[@ihateyoube]

how the fuck can you not tell the difference between a gsd and a malinois yet want to breed them

[@theweirdoproject3172]

I’m glad Abby got to come to the farm even if things didn’t turn out the way you had planned. She a good dog and I think she gonna benefit from you guidance

[@bangtandoggo4637]

we have a great pyrenees who guards our 50 acre farm that has a large variety of animals including peacocks, chickens, horses and many other things. our pyrenees had many corrections from when she was 12 weeks old up until she was 1 year. all dogs are different but it might take time. 🙂

[@garyf3470]

You’ve done the right thing. My question now is whether you can find a dog geneticist who can tell you whether a distant relative of Toby is safe for breeding with him. Obviously not a sibling and probably not a first cousin. But at some point it should be ok. I know it’s more complicated than that, but it could be the right answer. After all, Toby does have some good genes.

[@Purplesquigglystripe]

If he has the pedigree (family tree essentially) of both dogs, he should be able to see how inbred the puppies would be. I think there’s a certain inbreeding coefficient that is the safe limit.

[@maggiejacques37292]

I hope that prancing pony isn’t a bad breaded for Abby’s sake

[@cwiemers5037]

It's called line breeding & it is done all the time. It does require extensive research & an experienced breeder to mentor you in the process. Can have amazing outcomes, but is not without risk.

[@challennarose270]

At least with GSDs the rule is six generations. The issue is if he were to sell the puppies any inbreeding beyond breed standard is a HUGE red flag and increases their risk. I really hope Toby can have pups one day bc that temperament is so good to pass on.

[@KeyClavis]

The best option to pair with Toby is probably Italian. Go back to the original source.

[@chilanya]

Toby's exceptional, an incredibly good fit with your farm operation. That's why Abby's slower learning curve stands out. I'm sure she'll find her purpose.

[@MaineUSA]

Tobys less work that's why he likes him! He's funny if he gets another dog and it's just like Abby LOL

[@ff2154]

The question is why couldn't Toby become certified so he could breed? Morgan had those plans, yet he did not know what went into it

[@raven556]

As someone who is a part of the Veterinary industry, and an avid animal lover, I applaud you in your ethical decision. You are looking out for the wellbeing of the dog and future dogs that will come into your life. That wad a very tough decision you had to make in regards to Abbey. I am elated that you are not giving up on her and you are working with her regardless of being fixed or not. Who knows, maybe fixing her might calm her down a bit. Thank you for giving her another chance at being a herd dog. Also, bitches are notoriously more stubborn and harder to train. Good on you! I look forward to seeing the outcome, regardless if Abbey is better as a sheep herder or fowl herder.

[@NYShepherdGirl]

Livestock Guardian Dogs don't "herd" they guard!!!

[@missvagnere]

100% agree on the fact, that bitches are harder to train. I've had many dogs in my family and it's always been more challenging to train female dogs in comparison to male dogs.

[@josieconerly9559]

I have a great pyrenees and he herds as well as guards!

[@nightlyrowentree6047]

Really for me females are much easier to train faster on the uptake then again myn aren't guarding poultry they have high prey drive there fine with outside with chickens and ducks but if no ones around its fun time unfortunately there guarding kids and horses and goats and cows

[@knoahbody69]

@@missvagnere Phrasing?

[@cipmars]

You’re a good man. I love it when I see farmers that love and respect their animals and take mature decisions based on “how it is” and not on “how I’d like it to be”, especially as often times the two don’t coincide.

[@mmegraham]

Much respect to you for making these choices, Morgan. Your care about good breeding and the deep love for your animals is admirable. It's okay to have feelings of disappointment and frustration and sadness when the plan changes. Being resilient and choosing to look forward to the next good developments is so positive.

[@peytonkieninger4236]

your abby reminds me of my anatolian shepherd female of a similar age. health issues and hyper activity. she has great guarding instincts just not the best for livestock. i transitioned her out of the field and let her roam the property protecting areas the other dogs couldn’t until she came down with a tick disease and she now lives inside and guards me

[@deborahellenberger7153]

Thank you for caring enough about her future pups to do the hard thing. That is good husbandry. Your animals are under your care, and future pups for Abbey would have probably suffered the same as Abbey did. I admire your compassion for every animal you have on your farm. Once again, thank you. 🥰

[@janelleb8274]

Good decision on fixing her. I think you shouldn't make any long term judgements on her until she is at least 2-3 years old. Dogs mature at very different rates (even same breed dogs), and I think she will surprise you. Keep doing what you are doing and don't let up on the training, she may need a more firm training method than Toby needed.

[@ashley71773]

My heart goes out to Abby ❤️ I can’t imagine how lost she must feel without a clear purpose. In my experience working dogs get anxious and even show signs of depression when they don’t have a job or some sort of mental/physical stimulation.

[@colelowe2122]

It's not just how you train the dog. Some dogs just aren't cut out for certain jobs. Many puppies fail service dog training because they simply don't have the right temperaments, despite being bred for exactly that. It's hard to know until you try, and their personalities emerge more.

[@barbarafollows]

I’m so glad you’re keeping Abbey, she and Toby are darlings. I think you made the right decision not to breed her. Love watching all you do at Goldshaw farm. Stay safe all of you. Best wishes from the U K xxxx

[@kademasterson9705]

I really really appreciate the incredibly tough decision of not breeding Abby. Even though she is bred to be a working dog, there's so many dogs in this world already that it's best to only bring in new pups with the best health and best intentions. You're gonna be a phenomenal breeder someday if/when you tackle this project again :)

[@susanrybak7192]

Sweet Abby seems to have the instinct to be a good cattle dog. I am so happy that you decided to have her spayed and have put your dreams of breeding and training livestock guardian on hold until you can find the perfect match for Toby.

[@Briana20279]

He shouldn’t have spay her this early

[@SidSLI]

@@Briana20279 Right after her first heat is the perfect time to spay her.

[@unholyheretik]

Hey Morgan, I'm one of I'm sure many people who notified you on Twitter and the like of the breeders behavior and my concerns for Abby dog being bred. I'm glad you took everyone's concerns as seriously as you did and that you made the decision not to breed her. It's sad to hear the breeder was as bad as I thought, but at least now you know!

[@unholyheretik]

​@@leykimayri It doesn't really fucking *matter* so I'm not sure why you give a shit other than to stir drama.

[@juliemcarthur9000]

This video warmed my heart today, life isn't a spreadsheet and people show their true colours when we have to adapt and adjust. Bravo ❤

[@HilltopFarmHomestead]

As a Farmer, Veterinary Nurse and former Dog Breeder I'm telling you that you've done the right thing. Umbilical hernias are genetic in almost all cases. Speaking just as a farmer I commend you to for persevering with Abby's training however, if it doesn't workout it would make a sound reason for finding her a good home where she will fit in, and looking around for a more suitable puppy. At the end of the day you're running a farm. You can't keep an animal on a farm out of sentiment if it's making life harder.

[@anidadron]

I totally agree. Abby would make a great dog at a farm with a bunch of kids to run with and no birids around.

[@hannahjackson2320]

I read that the Breeder has actually offered to pay for transporting her back to them and reimbursing all expenses that Morgan has put into her. That may actually be a good idea if he’s truly not happy with her.

[@HilltopFarmHomestead]

@@hannahjackson2320 Yes, but I understand why he wouldn't want to. Firstly he's attached to her so at this stage probably isn't ready to make a hard decision and secondly. Even if he were, because he's attached he will want to make sure that she has the best home possible. If he sends her back, he will never truly know if she is happy. I get that. The money's not important. It's the peace of mind.

[@Oleandra_13]

@@HilltopFarmHomestead I can't imagine him being willing to send her back to a possible puppy mill.

[@HilltopFarmHomestead]

@@Oleandra_13 neither do I. That's why I think if he does something he wont worry about the money. He'll just find her a good loving home.

[@ram64man]

I admit I was a little concerned that Abby turned up a lot older than Toby when he was a puppy, I have found those early days were key in instilling some key behaviour the fact that she came from a mainly livestock with in the farm with her mum and siblings that play instinct comes mainly from being in play mode from an early age, I never once saw a vid with her and litter around the poultry just with the long horns which would also explain her behaviour and would also explain why she runs with the gater

[@p1te]

"that play instinct comes mainly from being in play mode from an early age". No, she has high prey drive which is genetic. LGDs were selectively bred to NOT have a strong predisposition for prey drive type behaviour. He got unlucky with a dog that does not really conform to the breed standards in temperament. She will improve with training but she is unsuitable for breeding purposes.

[@slidenapps]

@@JC-uq5gi always use mutts that you can rescue.

[@Libbathegreat]

@@slidenappsMutts are great companions, but for working dogs who need to perform specific tasks, it's too much of a crapshoot.

[@julianswinton5355]

@@Libbathegreat Look up lurchers. Those are real working dogs by being mutts between long dogs and other working breeds. For example i would look at mink mans dogs like Boss or Leia. But warning those dogs are hunting dogs

[@fuzzylop9164]

After hearing all the arguments I believe you made the right decision. The surgery suites work well. Nice to see you trying it. I think Abbie will be a good cattle dog. Many hearing dogs don't settle down until they are 2 1/2 so there is a lot of hope for her.

[@JusLetMeB275]

These are my sentiments on Abby too. In past vids, she herded the ducks and calves out of instinct. Toby is a natural poultry dog & Abby leans toward herding. Everyone has their own gifts

[@alisie2487]

So refreshing to see someone so open to learning about responsible dog breeding and behavior, well bred livestock guardian dogs are hard to come by and the poorly bred ones are overflowing in shelters and it's just going to get worse with the amount of ranches and farms going under today. Keep up the good work!

[@david39ification]

One thing we have done while training our LGD we used a small chain and put it on his collar, and put a small log on the end of the chain, we put it on him when we arent around, it's not too heavy and he can get around fine, but if he starts running after the chickens it will bang his knees and it discourages running after them. It's worked really well so far!

[@mirandasaralyn]

I really believe Abby is going to be an amazing guarding, who maybe focuses more on the cattle. And hearing about the genetic concerns with the hernia I fully support the decisions you've made. My heart goes out to you as it has certainly been a tough year with the animal helpers at the the farm.

[@SnakeandTheCrown]

What I appreciate about you most Morgan is that you genuinely care about your animals and do your very best to do right by them and make the best decision for THEM and not your pocket.

[@jeffffro7674]

My goodness Morgan!! You seemed so sad you had me scared you were rehoming her!! Upon discovering you weren't, and that you seemed even worse, I'm now completely convinced of your absolute love for ALL the critters in the GoldShaw corner of the country. That being said, I know that if there were another option you would have found it.

[@Sandra-ei1sr]

Morgan - love watching Goldshaw Farm! We're in Highgate, VT, Hi Neighbor. We had alpaca and lots of flies - I spent a lot of time researching flies and came upon an article, wish I could find it, I'd pass it on. I followed it and it helped a great deal, not 100%, but made a difference. Purchase a box of zippered freezer bags, and place 1 or 2 pennies in each corner of the bag. Add water to the bag, fill about half of the bag, and seal the bag closed. Along the top of your fence, take the zippered part of the bag and fold it over the fence, leaving the long part of the bag with the water and pennies in full site of everything. Take a clothespin and clip it on top of the bag which is on top of the fence. It sounds nuts and you wouldn't believe the teasing my husband took for my experiment, it works. The idea being the flies look at the bags and the pennies look like spiders waiting for flies... We placed a bag every 8 - 10 feet. I also used brown lunch bags, that I blew air into them so they are rounded, and then tied the bag closed with a rubber band, then hung them in the corners of doors, windows anywhere flies want to visit. The idea behind this is the rounded bags look like wasp hives - this works too. We had a friend visit, who was saying they put bags in corners of outside establishments in Paris - I don't know, cool if it's true. We feel your pain regarding Abby we have a Great Pry, Molly, who is very loved not by our alpaca and the Myotonic goats. 4 years later they seem to like each other but we have an Abby. We never wanted to breed Molly, I'd have to keep all the puppies lol Good luck.

[@Heatherrnd]

Thank you for your dedication and commitment to her! I appreciate your patience and understanding of her whereas others may give up on her, call her a bad dog, etc

[@evilqueen13]

We've always adopted our dogs as second hand dogs, right around the year and a half mark, people give up right before the dog matures and settles so we always had a little problem in the beginning and they would settle and be great dogs.

[@mandydavidson6694]

Abby is still a young dog, training is an ongoing lifelong process. I truly believe that a dog is for life along with the love and loyalty they give. failures are a sign of a work in progress.

[@moda78z]

He is definitely going to work on her daily. He never stopped. He’s just not going to breed her. He’s being careful, because he cares about his animals ❤️

[@BlutoServicePup]

@@ivo9328 no it isn't, dogs are intelligent animals, you can make someone stop smoking when they are sixty years old, even if they have been doing it since they were 12. Dogs are the same way, it is just harder to teach them, you are going off of a 500 year old saying, the saying "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" was made in 1523, almost 500 years ago.

[@RayneZaleska]

@@ivo9328 that is completely untrue. You for sure can teach older dogs new behaviors you want them to exhibit. It all depends on the person who is teaching the dog. The problem in this situation is he is trying to train her like he trained Toby. Abby is NOT Toby. She is her own dog with her own personality and needs to be trained in the way she will be attentive to. He said he has to correct her once a day and he didn't with Toby blah blah, well then if the way you are trying to train her worked for Toby but not for Abby then change the way you are trying to train her. With anything, he has an unhealthy idea of "this is the way it worked before this is the way it's going to be no matter what."

[@Chordata-flyer]

@@RayneZaleska you can teach new behaviors but that won't change the underlying personality. A dog like abby that has already killed a bird can be taught to behave while they're being watched but she can't be left alone with the birds, which is her entire job. She needs to be able to be left alone when th the birds

[@scarcity1234]

@@moda78z shit u guys really dont know jack shit abt raising farm animals if u just assumed the nature of his dog can just be trained out.

[@dubi01]

Thank you so much for being an ethical, loving, pet owner. You are truly the best kind of mensch! Love your videos and hugs and kisses to the dogs and cats....

[@violetsky2225]

I am so glad Abby remains with GSF. She is adorable and loved by all. Blessings to all

[@davidmachemer1015]

I love your attitude, Morgan. Rather than complaining about what "should have been", you adapt to what "is" - and in a way that is ethical and merciful. A lesson we could all take on board in our lives.

[@tabytastick]

I think you made the best decision for Abby and the future of the breed itself.

[@Miniae_Cecilia]

I think that her behaviour is because of just how much older she was in comparison to Toby. Getting her spayed might actually help with her temperament like it quite often does. Also great choice on the recovery suit, I bought one for my foster cat after she'd opened her stitches and she wore the suit for 2 weeks and it worked out great. Honestly I think we all have grown to love abby and when my mother learnt the other day that I watched you as well she first ask "oh did you see the new puppy" which I feel sums up just how loved she is.

[@kpina2081]

Dogs, especially the larger breeds, shouldn't be spayed this early. It's best to wait for them to be around 2 years old.

[@rou966]

@@kpina2081 I don't know all the pros and cons of waiting to spay so I won't comment on that, but with Toby dog around I think it was a smart idea to completely remove the risk of Abby dog accidentally becoming pregnant within that 2 year waiting period

[@Miniae_Cecilia]

@@kpina2081 as far as I'm aware it's recommended to wait till after their first heat which abby has likely already had. Getting spayed won't stop her growth and she had already reached sexual maturity so all the spay will do is calm her down especially around Toby, do you really think a vet would spay an animal that isn't ready to be spayed?

[@kpina2081]

@@Miniae_Cecilia Yes, i do think that a vet will do that. I've seen it happen. And it's best to wait longer than the first heat. Large dogs mature slowly. When spayed too soon, they often grow to have odd proportions, increased risks of certain health problems and so on. First heat is way too soon.

[@possummilk2971]

Her growth plates need to close before she’s spayed. This happens at around 2yrs. And it’s not guaranteed to solve behavioural issues. It can actually cause some more!

[@dianalesueur2297]

Thank you for making a thoughtful, conscientious and ultimately wise decision for your wonderful farm family. You are a "good man" and it is a real pleasure to follow you in your farming endeavors!

[@williammcneil2045]

dont listen to people, saying you are not doing good enough. its easy to see you care, about your farm, and that you care about your dogs. i really enjoy your videos, thank you.

[@scoopydaniels8908]

Good for you to call out bad actors/ dog breeders. I respect your openness in all things. I don't think those judging you are in ANY position to be talking, to be honest, because they live their lives in the shadows.. And they talk about other people rather than looking inward.

[@roxannepearn9956]

I love what you said at the end of your video about accepting things as they are and not how we expected them to be. Justin Rhodes went through a much similar situation with his LGD Winnie. He had high hopes she would guard the sheep. Winnie had other ideas and when he let her be herself he ended up with an excellent overall guard dog for his farm. He voiced exactly the same sentiment as you..you know that Rolling Stone song..🎶you can't always get what you want..

[@richardmattingly7000]

Abby is fortunate to have landed with a family that just didn't turn her over to a shelter and will be a great four legged alarm along with Toby at night because of her energy.

[@Purplesquigglystripe]

True. She would probably be a neighborhood terror if she was bought as a pet. She does seem more biddable though compared to Toby.

[@Wandervenn]

Even if he did have to get rid of Abby (some homes just arent good fits with certain dogs) it would be a huge financial loss to send her to a shelter and then adopted out indiscriminately to whoever wanted her. It would be better to find a different farm with larger animals (like sheep or pigs) that needs a LGD so Morgan can get some return and know Abby went to a good home.

[@caa1000]

@@Wandervenn I don't think Morgan will get rid of Abby and he stated the dog is part of the farm. He should sue the California breeder!

[@Wandervenn]

@@caa1000 I never said I thought he would. I said even if he did, he wouldnt put her in a shelter.

[@scottbatchelor2577]

Abby definitely reminds me of my English Border Collie called Tessa

[@jammies1431]

Check out the inflatable donuts if the body suit doesn't work. They're less restrictive for eating and drinking while being more comfortable when laying down. Plus, no chance of eating shattered plastic.

[@krispy777]

I’m hoping the body suit is cotton otherwise the healing process might slow down if the wound can’t “breathe”. Plus inflatable donut rings look adorable.

[@jammies1431]

@@krispy777 That was something I should have added. Natural fabrics are important due to the thickness of their coat. Need to make sure she wouldn't overheat. They have rings that look like donuts. Very cute. I wish I knew about them when my kitten got spayed. She ended up having wet food all over the inside of her cone. They can also rub against their skin which can cause hair loss and infection if you don't notice.

[@pjcorgi]

Corgi ended up popping it after a while of trying to get it off but they definitely work very well

[@petgranny194]

Good decision. Abby does well with the herd and they seem to like and trust her. As she matures, smaller critters may also find that she has settled down. She is so full of joy, it is hard for her to contain it!! I love watching her and recognize your struggle.

[@piplupcola]

Good news is that we might now have 3 dogs on the farm and honestly seeing 3 clouds roaming the Gold Shaw fields might not be a bad thing

[@dezandshit]

Morgan, thank you for this video. While I'm constantly learning about farming, poultry, and rural life through your videos what always impresses me most are your honesty and your ethics. Your animals are fortunate to have you as their caretaker.

[@piperleelee]

Morgan you are so adaptable when things don't go as planned. I am glad you still see Abbie as contributing a purpose to your farm. When given lemons, you make lemonade.

[@jacirhoderick6629]

I'm really glad you decided to keep Abby. I've seen situations where if the dog didn't work out for the exact reason they were bought for they will just get rid of the dog. Abby is part of the Gold family as well as the Goldshaw farm viewers family

[@nicolettefrazey2703]

It takes two years to train a dog. Abby is still a puppy hang in there you can do it! Give Abby a chance she loves the farm and Toby and you!!! She can do the job!!!!

[@RagmaticalRachel]

I literally cheered out loud when I learned she was fixed but staying on the farm.

[@gicollett2918]

As usual Morgan You just keep impressing me with your way to " do the right thing" that is such a SO NEEDED trait in our life these days. Whether you felt with be new to farming or dealing with "nasty/bully" neighbors or now with a breeder with poor ethics, there you are my shinning hero. Thank you for giving me hope that people that are honest, considerate/ compassionate, willing to deal/compromise in every day life event, WILL make this nastiness, hatefulness, unkindly world we are experiencing lately get BETTER. It seems like it's ALL about the "BUCK$$" !! BUT thanks to you, there is STILL good people to respect and I'm SO glad I have been following you and learning with your daily farm experiences and trials. Wish you the best and PLEASE keep sharing with your videos. LOVE ALL of it......

[@AleXannon92]

I think the problem why it's taking abby so long is that she was a lot older when she came to the farm, training was kind of "late" toby was trained so young. She'll learn eventually

[@Pablothedemon420]

I haven’t watched the full video yet, but I think a big part to play with Abby was that she was a lot older than Toby when brought to the farm. I believe if she was 8 weeks old and went through the same training as Toby (perhaps a little more strict) I think she would be a lot better with the poultry. But great call not to breed with the health issue and her not having as much of a natural ability with birds. I still think in the future Toby should sire a litter with the right female as his traits are perfect.

[@kathycarbone7545]

You are correctly analyzing the situation. Many dogs “fail” because of prey drive, such as seeing eye, service dogs, soft mouthed hunting retrievers etc. Prey drive is often part of a dog’s personality that is fixed. She may be too young to make the final decision on Abby’s potential as a livestock guardian dog. And thank you for being a considered future breeder; as a dog rescue founder & show dog trainer & breeder it’s wonderful to see you being so responsible! ❤️

[@MdMzzz]

If I may, I would like to address some of your concerns. 1, Umbilical hernia. It's really not a concern. Most small umbilical hernias heal on their own or the dog can live with it without any health repercussions, even without a medical procedure. I would not exclude a dog from breeding just because of that. It's not a serious medical issue. All it means is that the abdominal wall of the puppy is weak when it's born, so if the mother tugs at the cord too hard when cutting it, it herniates a little. 2. The poultry guard dog part, There are two components here. The first one is the fact that you got Abby - in my personal opinion - too late as a 4,5 months old puppy, when some of the behavior towards other animals is pretty established already. There's a huge difference there between her and Toby, who met your birds at a much younger age and had time to get acquainted to them as a still a very confused little puppy, which is what we count on for instruction when introducing a dog to its future environment. The second component is the talent the dog has for its work. There are hugely talented dogs - like Toby - who know what to do or not to do out of pure instinct with a very little nudge from you, and there are dogs that have the right temperament, but don't have the same talent for the job and need more training early on. Breeding the less talented dogs isn't a bad thing, as you cannot foresee the resulting puppies' talents. Abby might have a sister or a brother as talented as Toby. The main thing is for the temperament to be correct, and Abby doesn't have any issue in this regard. 3. Abby's breeder. I haven't looked her up, but as long as she doesn't breed the females twice a year and the dogs are well cared for, there is no issue there. The number of puppies produced in a year depends on the number of breeding dogs she has. If she has a larger dog breeding operation, she will obviously sell more puppies than someone with just 2 - 3 dogs. If her dog breeding business is larger than her livestock business, it makes sense. In my opinion, you are getting a little frustrated there with Abby, which is perfectly normal. She just needs a little more intensive training to get her to understand that she can't play all the time. And I don't mean the basic training you've been doing with her, but specific training to desensitize her to the birds. You have been keeping her away from the birds, when you should invite the birds into her enclosure, with supervision, to get her to stop playing with them. Take 2 hours out of your day to do that every day and I think you should be able to put that issue to rest.

[@Fismaja]

In Sweden you’re not aloude to breed a dog that have that. Our dog has it and we had to sign papers so we didn’t breed him. So you did the right thing!! Sorry for my bad writing. 😂 Love your channel!

[@helijay5012]

It's not allowed in my country, too. You wouldn't even consider to breed a dog with an umbilical hernia! The pups are sold with the information of the condition and the restrictons and the breeder will pay costs of the operation.

[@carolsteinberg5584]

I knew you would make the right decision for Abby. She’s still a lovable pup with lots of potential! Thank you for making the responsible choice. 🥰

[@meetyourmakerstudios]

You are a great person, and every animal that you’ve taken in for whatever reason is incredibly lucky. Best wishes!

[@katkat2013]

I have a Maremma puppy from Prancing Pony, he will be working with poultry and live stock on our farm. He does not have a hernia. We are buying another Maremma in March from Prancing Pony who will be unrelated to our first puppy for breeding purposes. The good thing about buying from Prancing pony is that Kim has more than one breeding pair with isolated blood lines. Considering the Maremma is very rare, and needs more numbers, its a good thing she has as many options as she does. Kim also spoke to me about a litter she had trouble with umbilical hernias in depth, and what she plans to do about it to prevent it in the future. We exchanged many long emails discussing the matter, Kim was very direct and transparent about the risks associated with it. Kim was very careful to make sure I knew that it would most likely result in a non breeding Maremma, she iterated this point repeatedly. I can not see her only mentioning this in passing to you, since she made it abundantly clear to me what the situation was and how it would effect our future choices. I chose to purchase both our puppies from the best bloodlines for our purposes where umbilical hernias and Penn hip scores were not problematic. Good breeders often have more than one breeding pair, to keep the blood lines fresh. This often results in multiple litters at the same time, the same way farmers may have many spring lambs or chicks. We have not had any problems. Kim was nothing but kind and respectful the entire time. Please keep a few things in mind. Firstly Maremma are often full of puppy energy until 18 to 24 months old when their hormones change and they level out. There are many other ranchers with LGDs and you can watch their your tube channel to observe the process, and how to direct your LGD towards the behaviour you desire. Abby may very well have a drastic temperament change and settle in beautifully. Giver her a chance to learn, and put her in more controlled conditions to train her with small livestock. If she is chasing chickens, she needs intervention, not just yelling. You should expect to have to train Abby carefully, and not depend on instinct so heavily. While Toby is stellar on behaviour, his performance is based on far earlier exposure to poultry than Abby. Please keep in mind he was nearly chicken size when he came to stay with you. Early exposure helps them adjust faster, its not fair to compare the two, especially since Abby is trained to larger livestock, you knew that when you bought her. You may be better off putting her in with the cows, if you do not have the time to crack down on her about the poultry. A chicken tractor could be a very useful tool to teach Abby to simply get used to laying near the chickens and get comfortable not chasing them since they can not run from her. Operant conditioning with white chickens could make all the difference for her. I know you are new to farm life, and I often see you getting very emotional about the decisions you need to make on your farm. Making breeding decisions can be stressful. You were informed by the breeder that there was an umbilical hernia in the dog your were interested in purchasing before it was finalized. You should have said no thank you, I do not want a pet, I want a breeding quality dog, and purchased a different puppy from a different litter, instead of ignoring the warnings about it and pursuing the purchase anyway, then blaming someone else for your poor choices. This really comes down to you having a lack of experience and ignoring a good breeder when she advised you that there were issues barring you form accomplishing your goals. If Kim heavily advised me against purchasing a herniated puppy for breeding, then she would have had a very similar conversation with you. Kim has a good vet she works with that can inspect any puppy before you purchase it, in depth. Perhaps consider that you made an error, and that it is your responsibility as a farmer to make solid foundational decisions to build a prosperous future. I know you are angry with the choices you made, but nobody fooled you or tricked you here. Kim is not running a puppy mill, how dare you say that. To paint her in that light after I know she put out her best effort, is down right rude. Kim would have tried to work with you if there was a problem, yet you throw her under the bus. Kim would have been upfront about the umbilical hernia Abby has, and informed you that she would need it fixed when she was old enough. Next time wait for a litter that has more solid breeding prospects, and purchase a puppy. If I were you, I would consider the loss of breeding rights, an educational lesson about how to choose a puppy. Next time do not hire a courier, but go do your pick up your new puppy in person, so that you can hold a final inspection of the animal before you commit to purchase. Lastly, build a bridge, get another puppy from Prancing Pony, and try again. Dog breeding, is never guaranteed to work out even with the best blood lines there can be congenital issues, that need to be expunged from the line. Which is why many breeders selectively spay and neuter pet quality offspring. There is a lot more to this than just buying a dog and expecting it to work out perfectly every time. Even seasoned breeders run into problems and have to make hard choices.

[@chrisschaller4037]

We also have two puppies from Prancing Pony Farms who guard ducks at this time and had a very different experience than Gold Shaw Farms (we may get larger animals on the future). Both are just over a year old. The male I fully trust around our ducks. He very calm and great with the ducks. The female is not ready to be unsupervised with ducks since she has lots of energy and is very playful. She has gotten a lot better though with daily training. Neither dog has unsupervised access to the ducks at this point. The female is always on a long lead when around the ducks. Ducks are usually in a big pen in the pasture with dogs staying in the same pasture. Kim has been great and very honest the entire time. She still offers help as things come up and we need advice. The female was the runt and on the smaller size. Kim let us know that she didn't know exactly how big she would get. The male was actually returned to Kim by another client. Kim told us she wanted to hold him to make sure nothing was wrong with him since she hadn't been with him for the last 2 months. She also wanted us to wait a little longer on the female (got her at 16 weeks) to make sure the male and female were good fits together. We had the options to take the two dogs or wait for a future litter and never felt pressured either way. This doesn't sound like someone who is running a puppy mill. Kim may have a bigger business than others. She doesn't run a puppy mill. I feel like Kim deeply cares about her animals. We don't have any plans to breed our dogs. I don't know what was exactly said or not as far as Abby between Morgan and Kim. From my experience dealing with Kim and what you shared Morgan, it sounds like you were informed about Abby's medical condition and what it meant for your breeding options.

[@na195097]

I think Abby was introduced to birds too late. Her birth date and location/climate caused her to stay in CA longer and she didn't get habituated to birds soon enough. Her dog parents and environment likely primed her for guarding a different type of animal.

[@wadehiggins1919]

I would agree if it were not for the fact that the breeder's website claims "they are heavily socialized with our goats, poultry and a variety of livestock." Personally having read her website, I would have been a bit surprised to then see this dog's behavior.

[@na195097]

@@wadehiggins1919 In the comments to another vid, I suggested that at the breeder farm the birds were likely penned up and the dogs were free to roam. Whereas on Morgan’s farm the birds free range during the day, and that is the “problem”. It’s either that or Abby’s parents kept her from chasing birds. But I suspect strongly that Abby’s so-called socialization to birds was insufficient to say the least.

[@jlabunnymom1]

We have added 2 Central Asian Shepherd crosses to our place. The latest came to us at 16 months. He is a CAS/Anatolian cross and spent his life on remote rangeland, prior to coming to me. Even starting that late, he was 100% poultry safe by 25 months. Age isn't a problem, as long as you take the time to get the dog and stock acclimated to each other. Especially with poultry, you want to supervise them until they outgrow their puppy impulsiveness. We also praise the behaviors that we want, and prevent those behaviors that we don't want them doing. I keep the dog on a 25' lead, until I no longer have to reel them in to prevent playing with the birds.

[@_Naaraaja]

Patience is a virtue when dealing with puppy energy. I've got a rottweiler and I had the same thing with her as you do with abby. Too much energy. I've managed to get the energy out by giving her some training where I make a trail in the nearby forest with treats and let her use her nose to find the treats that are hidden. Obedience training is a good thing to do aswel. Abby is adorable and will become a well trainer guard dog, no questions asked. Just have patience and dont give up! No matter the outcome, the farm needs Abby as it needs Toby!

[@gingerbaker4579]

Not the same breed and a stupid comparison when Morgan said that the dog is too stupid to learn.

[@hushpuppyandfriends5115]

@@gingerbaker4579 both are working breed dogs, lmao and have to deal with high energy prey drive. geez, the comparison is spot on. Rottweilers take 2 years to mature because they are so big. my last 1 was 120 pounds. she was no where near adult at 1 year old. I think it's far to early to see what adult Abby will be like. You cannot compare 2 dogs in terms of temperament. Toby is hugely diff and because he's so easy going created a false sens of breed standard 'these dogs are confident protective, though not easy to train or socialize.; honestly, if 1 has not trained a dog all their life, I would think a professional trainer is needed. a 'full proof recall' only works with HOURS of training expecting a puppy to do it is absurd

[@Carriesue1982]

@@hushpuppyandfriends5115 You can tell pretty early on with guardian breeds. Yes Rotties are working breeds too but not in the same class. Having a livestock dog chase and kill livestock is a big no no. A farmer can’t wait around for 2 years for a guardian to mature. It’s okay if Abby isn’t cut out and it’s okay if he decides a better home would be suited for her. :)

[@jsanford181]

I have a rottie and a Kangal/Akbash cross. They are apples and oranges as far as training. My rottie has a high prey drive that can target any animal that runs. My is from working livestock guardian dogs. She wouldn't even think about hurting my livestock. She's had chickens fly by her face without even batting an eye. I didn't even have to tell her to leave it. The rottie has required so much more work to control her prey drive.

[@bestoddisee]

I like what you did. As much as you wanted to have a good breeding dog, you were wise to understand what her limitations were. Abby is only ten months old. She will improve in her training. You did not give up on her. Well done sir.

[@jammies1431]

Also, as someone that has seen the impacts of severely abusive puppy mills, thank you for making the informed decision to avoid going to that breeder again knowing what you know now. I fostered a pomeranian for over a year. Cages staged four high, dogs covered in waste, they had never touched grass, they were bread from the moment they reached sexual maturity until death. Her ears were so impacted that once I cleaned them, she would just stand in the yard and listen to sounds she never heard before. Over 100 dogs came to foster care. The judge later gave something like 20-50 of the most healthy dogs back to the breeder (read: abuser). Even though this situation with the breeder may not be to that extreme, but seeing the damage done to the bitches was awful. No breeder can oversee so many litters responsibly. Taking on more than you can chew will even unintentionally lead to situations of neglect even if that is just not being able to pay close attention to how the puppies are raised. When people see dollar signs over serious genetic defects and tell people "yes this dog is fit for breeding", this is exactly why it becomes a problem with working breeds specifically. The genetic pool gets tainted, inbreeding happens, genetic traits get passed down. You can only track so far. You made the right choice for your farm, Abby, and future lines of this breed.

[@norikosato7823]

My friend adopted a female Labradoodle retired from a breeder. At first I thought that the breeder was a "responsible" one because she had retired her bitch while the animal was still relatively "young". But the dog had never been outdoors before, and took a few months to open up to my friend and another few months to go out for a walk comfortably. Since then, I wonder if there is any "ethical breeder" out there.

[@jammies1431]

@@norikosato7823 They exist but it isn't profitable to do so. Look at how much time and effort Morgan spent finding Toby and then to find Abby. That's all money. Many claim to do in depth genetic testing for disease and to ensure the gene pool is as large as possible, but they don't. Then, the age in which they begin breeding the dogs comes into play. The longer you wait, the less money you are making off litters. Young mothers with poor instinct usually make bad mothers. Babies shouldn't be raising babies. There's also a waiting period between litters. Letting the mother heal and relax is incredibly important. Many will basically begin breeding for the next litter the moment they are able to. Stressed mothers can end up neglecting their puppies. The number of dogs you are breeding introduces issues as well. Nobody is able to properly care for more than the parents and one litter. It doesn't matter who you are. One person cannot adequately look after more than that. The less litters you have, the less money you are making. Training, grooming, veterinary care- it's all dollar signs. I truly believe that if you are not looking for a working breed (to actually use their breed's instincts properly), you should be adopting from shelters. Larger genetic pool leaves mutts with less probability of having health issues. Many people end up looking for a dog with a certain look. Any dog can make a great pet. There's very few situations where getting from a breeder is the best choice.

[@norikosato7823]

@@jammies1431 I really hope they exist and believe Morgan is going to be one of them. More than 10 years ago I knew someone who was breeding wire haired fox terrier. She had a bitch and her intact son. So I had to wonder who was the father of the puppies when the bitch had another litter. The male dog was from the bitch's first litter, but significantly smaller than his mother and looked different, so I didn't believe he was purebred. This lady was my landlady and a member of the local council, and a very kind woman. But what she was doing with her dogs didn't appear ethical. As for the shelter animals I agree with you. Family pets don't need to be purebred. Here in Australia shelter animals have to be desexed before becoming available for adoption. They also get vaccinated and usually come with 1 month free vet treatment if necessary. So the cost is really reasonable. We don't need to buy pets from a pet shop or a breeder.

[@jammies1431]

@@norikosato7823 Most shelters fix pets in the US before adoption, but not all from my knowledge. The thing that gets me is that there are TONS of purebred dogs in shelters. I worked in them for years. I'm talking breeds people would pay good money for. It's wild to me that people would rather support an unethical breeder in cases where they are not planning on breeding their dog anyway. If a breeder makes breeding their full time job, that sets off red flags for me. The costs involved in ethical breeding are just too high to allow you to sustain yourself on breeding alone in my opinion. A situation like Morgan's where he's a farmer and his wife works in a hospital, there's income coming in from other sources. When breeding is the only thing you do, it can make unethical choices more tempting because you need money. Crossing my fingers that Morgan can find some solid mentorship to ensure he's starting this operation with as much knowledge as possible. Purebred working breeds are getting watered down. There is still a purpose for breeding but it's being tainted by people that only see dollar signs.

[@matthewmedow5482]

My truth, if I may lay it out there, is that you've earned admiration and commendation at length for the risks you've taken and the considerable ground you've gained; calculated and now and then stumbling. Your growth and the opportunity to observe it and ride along has for some time been rewarding. Your work here is oftentimes a joy to watch. You share well. A big thanks.

[@ColonelKlink100]

Yes. I appreciate how Morgan doesn't hide his mistakes. It feels like we're along for the learning journey.

[@chrisschaller4037]

@@ColonelKlink100 according to the breeder, the contract Morgan signed says that Abby can only be bred with a registered dog and Toby is not a registered dog. I can appreciate him never giving up on his dreams. I do think that he is hiding some of his mistakes.

[@ColonelKlink100]

@@chrisschaller4037 Toby is not registered? I did not know that. Are you sure? Is it possible that he is unregistered but registrable?

[@chrisschaller4037]

@@ColonelKlink100 according to the breeder he is not. I have not checked into it myself and don't know if that means Toby came from unregistered parents which would mean he can't be registered or if he can be and Morgan hasn't done it yet. I have watched a lot of Morgan's videos and have not had any other interaction with him than that. I have two dogs from the breeder and have many interactions with her. She hasn't given me a reason not to trust her. The breeder is willing to answer any questions and share her side if you reach out to her.

[@ColonelKlink100]

@@chrisschaller4037 Thanks for getting back to me. I don't plan to buy any puppies of this breed so I won't bother checking with the breeder but I'm taking what you had to say into account.

[@debracoder3596]

I am proud & pleased with your decision Morgan. I have had many dogs in my lifetime & each had their own personality. Some dogs take longer to become that "seasoned" dog that you want. She may have to grow out of the puppy friskiness to become that calmer, more adult behaving dog. Thank you for Not being like so many today, the "throw away" generation, who expect instant gratification and don't put the time & effort in. I firmly believe Abby will grow into that caring farm dog that you want. She will learn from Toby's example & yours over time. And she is just as adorable & lovable as the Tobester!

[@Gantzz321]

I went through a similar issue years ago when I got my GSD, pre-internet researching a dog breeder was really hard and as a result I got a dog that had health issues. Back in 90' when you paid 1500 for a dog you expected to not have to deal with issues like mange or hip dysplasia.

[@nox5555]

GSD are overbreed and have been for the last decades. the only realy good genetic stock left is in central germany where East german Guard GSD genetic was mixed in since the 90s.

[@Gantzz321]

@@nox5555 which is where the parents of my dog came from, and why I paid what I did, breeder over here purchased substandard dogs and passed on the breed to everyone she could

[@susanlilley-rizos9906]

The best dog I ever had took something like 2 to 3 years before she settled down and became a genius dog. Everybody wanted a puppy from her but unfortunately we had her fixed before we found out how great she was.

[@seaottar25]

Is it possible that she was able to settle down a lot more and really shine at her job because she got fixed? I’m not a dog owner but I’ve heard people say they notice a behaviour change in their doggos after the fix.

[@Are_We_Having_Tea]

In Italy/Turkey the dogs (Maremma) are placed with the sheep flock at about 40 ~50 days of age. Dogs that don’t bond with the flock are culled. It’s more rare that a dog will bond with birds in the same way as they do sheep. Abby would probably be fine as a cattle or sheep guardian, after all that is what she’s been genetically bred to do. I think you got really lucky with Toby. Working with guardian dogs is going to be like working with any other stock on your farm, some are going to be “better” than others. Working dogs have to be considered in the same light as all your other livestock, otherwise your farm won’t function and you’ll end up with a whole bunch of pets.

[@lifessonotfair]

That's why he's specifically trying to create a line that is meant to guard birds. He wants to create a working line that caters to the needs of poultry farmers so that other poultry farmers can get livestock guardian dogs. A lot of guardian breeds aren't great for birds, so he's specifically looking for those with the right instincts and temperament and wants to breed that into the foundation of the line.

[@haygrif]

You’re great. Thanks for doing right by your animals and being such a great example for others. Love Abby and glad she’s staying. ❤

[@maryadams3173]

I love how you love your animals. It's heartwarming to see. They are more than theiir "job." They are value.🥰

[@superiornightwing]

I love how caring you are with all your animals

[@julierutkowski7654]

she will learn…when big dogs like her get to ne about 4/5 yrs old, they just settle in and become PERFECT. keep training - you’re right on with that plan❤️

[@lilabarrows]

I had a chicken farm and we collected start hunting dogs, 2 rescues that were Bernese/Border Collie mix and 3 German shorthair Pointers. With that many dogs we lost 3 chickens but all dogs were successfully trained to guard and not kill chickens (and cats). Abby’s gonna be just fine. 🥰

[@belgarath97]

Morgan, I just want you to know, that I aspire to have your outlook on life, and thank you for sharing your journey

[@marytapioca]

I understand your delimna, I'm glad you fixed her, and I'm glad you're keeping her. She'll be a good guard dog, and a good older sister to Toby's offspring.

[@angrycanadiannerd8928]

I was so afraid that you'd had made the decision to rehome her, which can be a very traumatic experience for a dog, but i'm glad that you made the decision to keep her on the farm and continuing her training.

[@juliasal6656]

One thing that kinda left me puzzled, when I looked up at Abby's breeder, was the fact that she had also non registered dogs that she would breed. They looked like maremmas, but where they? It's not like I've never seen similar things here in Italy, but when it happened said breeders where some of the most experienced and authoritarian people in the maremmano-abruzzese field, and they knew extremely well the genealogy of the unregistered dog they were introducing in the breeding program... Also, these dogs usually come from Abruzzo itself, where some shepherds still breed them as it used to be done, and even if they haven't a pedegree their registration isn't a problem after attentive exams, both physical and mental... I don't know, this thing never quite convinced me. Also, any LGD that is going to be working with animals, needs to be born with said animals, from the truly first breath, which - if I don't remember wrong - wasn't exactly the case. Tou did the right thing, Morgan. Abby is gonna live a long and happy life doing what she loves in company of people (and other animals) that love her profoundly. I don't know how the situation of the breed is the US, but I have the feeling is going to be impossible to find a perfect outcross match for Toby. The majority of imported dogs have great genealogy behind them, and the great dogs that made them are very present in every pedigree even in Italy (I can think of Turco dei Giunoni, who sired so many litters, or Spezzaferro, or the Arajani, dell'Antico Tratturo and del Velino Sirente dogs, always always always there). Perfect outcrosses dogs usually are very rare, so maybe you can look up - with the help of some very serious, experienced and down to earth breeders - how to valorize a possible female with the right, tiny amount of inbreeding. Sorry for the bad syntax, I didn't sleep at all last night and my brain is not properly working, lol. Wishing you all the best!

[@ksott-0]

Hi, I was just trying to find the name of Abby's breeder. Do you know it? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[@juliasal6656]

@@ksott-0 if I'm not wrong Morgan put a link to her website in one of the first videos of Abby, she wasn't even born. Unfortunately I don't remember it 😞

[@feuerling]

There is still the (expensive and labor intensive) option of flying one in directly from Italy for less genetics math.

[@arcan762]

@@ksott-0 prancing pony

[@Libbathegreat]

@@feuerling I also think that's probably what will have to happen. But from what Julia is saying, even the best Maremmas in Italy come from a few genetic lines whose offspring also made it to the US, of which Toby is likely one.

[@RoulicisThe]

I agree with your decision, removing genetic defects from dog's lineage is part of what makes a responsible breeder, as it prevents crippling health issues in the puppies. You should also put the breeder that sold you Abby on blacklist from now on. Between the fact they sold her for "breeding purposes" knowing she had this defect and the behavioral issues Abby has, they're either totally incompetent or just unethical and focused on brewing the most money out of their dogs.

[@acdc3432]

Its always interesting to see how breeding works from East coast vs. West coast. I have raised several German short hair pointers. Mostly achieved from Midwest states. We live west coast and the same breed here are just not the same at all.

[@rnggall9640]

Another real video from a real farmer! Puppy mills hide in many forms. I am looking to get a new dog I have a lot of 'must haves' and checking the number of litters produced is now on the list!