GOOD/BAD: why we like bad art

Why do we love bad movies, bad acting, bad art? In this video essay I take a look at why cult films and bad writers are sometimes adored, and what sets them apart from just plain bad art. I take a look at the worst poet of all time and a few cult movies to explore the philosophy of good/bad art.
➡️🔥Purchase The Collected Works of William McGonagall (FIVE STAR REVIEWS!!!):
USA Amazon: amzn.to/3VZsX2j
UK Amazon: amzn.to/3XF6Xek
➡️🔥Purchase Matthew Strohl's Why It's OK to Love Bad Movies: amzn.to/3xlImAp
➡️🔥Join me on Patreon where you can become part of my reading club, get early access to my content, and support me as a small creator of (hopefully) interesting and thought-provoking material: patreon.com/JohnBurton859?utm...
#williammcgonagall #worstpoet #booktube
ABOUT Dr John:
My on-screen debut was in a 1994 Channel 4 documentary about my work in language teaching, and I later acted in a documentary about Victorian England, narrated by Gregory Peck. I was born and raised in the suburbs of London, before going to an all-boys school and then living for a couple of years in Montreal where I learned to speak French. When I returned to the UK I began a career teaching English, which eventually took me to Seville for a few years. I learned Spanish, I painted, took pictures, wrote poetry, learned to be a barber, and did my doctorate in literary studies while living in rural west Wales. I am now based near Bristol

[@ChanakyanStudent7971]

Bad art is rare just like good art. Both ends of bell curve contain things which can't be bought a dime a dozen.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Well said

[@metagen77]

Art does not follow a normal distribution, it is much worse than that. Bad art is not art at all and it is everywhere.

[@swosheeplays9453]

Art is an inverted bell curve. On one side you have the train wrecks, things that are so bad that they are humourous and entertaining. The other, masterpieces that can captivate you as much the 1000th time you witness it as it dit the first. In the middle, mediocrity, entirely forgetable works incapable of holding your attention. This is the true bad art, so mind-numbingly mundane as to be worthless

[@ChanakyanStudent7971]

@@metagen77 I suppose that would occupy the median of the art curve. Things that qualify as art but not made with any artistic endeavour, like cash grab movies, advertisement posters etc. I suppose that is truly an art of no value, mass produced art for the lowest denominator of the masses. I would call it mediocre art instead of the bad art as mentioned in the video's context. One wouldn't classify McGonagglein that category. He's more of a spectacularly bad artist.

[@metagen77]

@@ChanakyanStudent7971 This is not a matter of opinion. The overwhelming majority of works get no views, no sales and no recognition for as long as the creators live, that is one end of the spectrum. If we progress our analysis towards the successful the curve does not drop off linearly but exponentially. Meaning a tiny amount of people get all the views, all the sales. What you classify as "art" does not explore the unknown, does not reflect the human experience, is not original. McGonagglein was a troll, you confuse that with being bad.

[@kiri5269]

I never considered how similar bad art and avant garde art are in terms of how they break expectations and established rules, really interesting to think about. Good video and really cool analysis 👍

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Thank you!

[@VesnaVK]

Good point! Example: Marcel Duchamp's "Fountain." He also made the beautiful "Nude Descending a Staircase," which proves that he can paint.

[@yourusernamecanfly]

I feel like 'good bad art' is similar to camp art, in the way that both are earnest executions of ideas in an unconventional manner. One point that the RedLetterMedia guys often mention, is that a good bad movie is one that keeps finding new and interesting ways to be bad; but an actually bad movie is bad in a consistent way.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Excellent point. Good bad art allows space for the audience to engage with it in interesting ways. I think that’s why good bad movies always build communities among admirers. The conversation becomes about how each person has found things of interest, and sharing those with others.

[@Saulman1984]

The humour bad art generates is worth the effort by creators, it shows their humanness.

[@philipocarroll]

It's like when that guy from Equatorial Guinea swam in the 2000 Olympics. He was so bad, it looked like he might need to be rescued, it took nearly two minutes to swim 100m, the slowest time in history. But how everyone cheered when he finally reached the end without drowning!

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Great example! Love this. Your comment made me think about Eddie the Eagle who attempted the ski jump in the Winter Olympics.

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

Or the time when that Aussie cyclist won because all the other cyclists stacked it. He'd been trailing behind the whole race, which is what saved him from the carnage! Us Aussies all loved that he just coasted by for the gold 😅

[@magnusmcgee993]

Please remember that magician Tommy Cooper 11:14 , deliberately performed badly.

[@datguyfoss3915]

The work becomes elevated beyond simple "bad" status when an artist is able to maintain their sincerity in the face of opposition. A lot of this art is incredibly genuine even it isn't coherent or competent. The spirit of true creativity is often just as celebrated as mastery of the craft.

[@morgantorium]

While I engage with what you're saying, the main thing I took away from this video is that you are very relaxing and soothing to listen to. Gonna bookmark the channel for the next anxiety attack.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Thank you!… I wonder if that’s why my students would doze off? Either way, I’m very happy to know my videos bring a little bit of calm.

[@seigeengine]

A big factor on ratings is the filter. The less popular something is the more you know that the people who are leaving reviews are actually into that thing, whereas the more popular something is, the less that's the case. You don't buy a book of poetry by some guy known as the worst poet ever not wanting exactly what you're getting, but a good portion of people buying a really popular book are at best only casually interested, and then there's also that anything popular draws haters just to be contrarian.

[@tinkergnomad]

I have a lot of insubstantial reasons why I love the 'gloriously bad,' but the reason I've I keep coming back to is they serve as an artistic palete cleanser. I love your perspective on this. First time viewer, and definitely subscribiing.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

That’s a great point: the artistic palate cleanser. I love that. Thanks so much, and thank you for subscribing.

[@theholyfridge2130]

some chill visualization editing

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Thanks!

[@ebonyway9612]

13:36 one exception that comes to mind is the now dead art of “trollfiction”, which was a parody of badly written fanfiction. it was both so-bad-it’s-good and deliberately written to be that way. many people still fondly remember “my immortal” for example.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Very interesting!

[@jammysmears4077]

In Billy Connolly's World Tour of Scotland he does a straight reading of The Tay Bridge Disaster. Connolly is all windswept and the river is in the background. It's genuinely compelling and I fondly remember it. I wonder if that programme increased McGonagall's popularity somewhat. At least in Scotland.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Ah, I wish I’d included that. I certainly would have watched it. I wonder if there’s a clip out there? Great comment.

[@jammysmears4077]

@@Dr.Johnreads I couldn't find it on YT but if you Google Billy Connolly Tay Bridge Disaster there is a clip available on a Chinese website popular with the kids. I hadn't seen it since the nineties and had forgotten the snow storm! Seriously windswept. Still enjoyable too.

[@seigeengine]

I think the issue with discussing why we like bad art is that we're really talking about many overlapping yet distinct things. Like, you use Nicholas Cage clips, and the thing is... is he a bad actor? I could agree he is, in that he doesn't adeptly portray a variety of distinct and nuanced characters... but that isn't what we're looking for from him in the first place. People are drawn to Cage for his quirks, his personality, his charisma, things that would be distorted if he did "act well." He's over the top and people love that. Jack Black is another example of this. There are a whole host of actors like this. You can say they aren't good actors, but if you shift your perspective on what it means to act, perhaps they're amazing actors, and the "good actors" are actually bad. I mean, both things are simultaneously true and not true. But then there's stuff like The Room. Works of passion, where you get the sense that the person making it really cares about what they're doing. They're really trying their hardest. They are invested. This is also a charm that you could say about a lot of early YT content. People made content that wasn't necessarily "good" but with lots of passion. This is compelling, endearing, and because they're really trying, it tends to be interesting. It's the sort of thing kids have, but people lose as they get older. What they create may be utter garbage, but they mean it wholeheartedly, and that's compelling on some level. Then there's also that some bad art is often just funny. It's over the top. It's absurd. It's parody without intentionality. Like that clip of the guy being shot. It's Austin Powers but without the creators being in on the joke. Bad art that's just bad lacks these features. The acting is poor, and you're not getting a charismatic performance. It lacks passion, and is formulaic. It's not over the top or absurd, it's just boring. There's also a class of bad content that I feel is worth mentioning. That is "offensively bad" content. For me, this is where I place creation that seems to hold it's audience in contempt. It's the creative equivalent of spitting in someone's face. But ultimately any attempt at defining these differences is just a story we're telling ourselves. These things are subjective. They don't have actual criteria. They're a vague feeling that emerges from the complexities of our minds. Asking what makes a good movie good is like asking what makes something beautiful. We can talk about it for days, and tell ourselves really compelling stories about what makes something "good bad," or beautiful, or anything similar, but at the end of the day, they're just stories. Those stories might be useful, but it's important not to confuse them as being the truth.

[@cuckoobrain7999]

It's more important for actors to have range when it comes to portraying emotion and motivation than range of character types

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Excellent points. I’m going to think about what you’ve said before making a considered response, but I do agree perspective is key. And I love the word ‘endearing’ when talking about early KZbin content. That’s so apt.

[@seigeengine]

@@cuckoobrain7999 Not relevant to my point. Nitpicking is a good way to be hated.

[@seigeengine]

@@Dr.Johnreads There is also, as you mentioned, a certain approachability to it. A YT video by one of those creators felt like something you could make if you really wanted to, in a way that a hollywood movie doesn't. It's a similar sort of charm to the B-movie. I think part of this was technological too, of course. When YT started, the gap between YT content and professional film or TV was pretty big. It looked like home-made video instead of proper film. There was a very clear quality difference that almost doesn't exist anymore.

[@funkbungus137]

I liked this a lot, thanks for making it!

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@CatBountry]

Neil Breen is the purest version of a bad artist. He insists that he is a very serious artist but his fanbase is entirely composed of people who think his movies are bad. But they're wonderfully bad. Fascinatingly bad. Bad in a way that could only be made by this particular man. "Fateful Findings" is a disasterpiece. I love it.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

I’ll check out this ‘disasterpiece’ (love that expression btw).

[@Enjoyurble]

My only pushback is the idea of someone writing, directing, starring in, producing, distributing, casting, catering, and self-funding their own movie is so insane and that he didn't start doing any of it until 47 so out there that the "art" that is his life in general is at least a part of what people are drawn to. Like, just look at the crew credits for The Room versus Double Down. Considering the types of movies he chooses to make, it's kind of ridiculous he's managed to finish one, let alone six. It's like he's trying to do the Roger Corman model without understanding that Roger Corman understood the importance of delegating and finding good collaborators. But at the same time, if he's telling the truth, he's managed to profit off of every movie with his own version of that model.

[@CatBountry]

@@Enjoyurble Love that for him, One of the auteurs of our modern age.

[@ethanbell6762]

All will bow to the one true Breenius of our time

[@metagen77]

There are a few great trolls in history. He is without a doubt pulling you in

[@davidbarton1928]

Les Dawson and his piano. Likewise that sketch with Morecambe & Wise featuring 'Andre Preview'. And especially Tommy Cooper. They weren't obliviously bad while being convinced of their genius like The Queen's Poet, Florence Jenkins and Tommy Wiseau. They set out to redefine being bad by conventional artistic standards into something new and sublime. I think there is a difference.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Good point.

[@Tom-lc9ni]

The writer of Battlefield Earth wrote some other far more harmful bad art.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Excellent point!

[@richiehoyt8487]

I once took an L. Ron Hubbard book out of the library knowing only that he was a bestselling Sci~Fi author, maybe _the_ best~selling Sci~Fi author. Back then (the early '90's) I was one of those people who, if they had read more than, say, 10 pages of a book, then no matter how repellant, or dull, the content, felt like I was under some sort of moral compulsion to wade through it to the finish. I have Hubby to thank for breaking me out of that mindset. The book was unreadable, and I mean, _literally_ unreadable! It read like an old phone book, re~edited by the author of House of Leaves! Of course, when I learned a little more of the guy's career, things kinda fell into place. Including, I suspect, why a municipal library had a whole bookcase given over to the man's -fiction- (kof!) 'histories'!

[@kaimarie7823]

What is the scene with the screaming guy and girl with the itchy trigger finger from please?

[@Dr.Johnreads]

It’s from the 1973 Turkish film "Kareteci Kız" (Karate Girl).

[@kaimarie7823]

@@Dr.Johnreads thank you!

[@jennag890]

Well done and well said

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Thanks ☺️

[@chriswest8389]

I enjoy kitch poetry with a lot of melodrama thrown it. You can’t beat Mark Twains ‘ The Tombstone schoolyard.’

[@davidcourtenaycarrascogran9067]

He may have just been conning everybody. The incident with the Queen goes to show that good poet or not he never would've mistaken the phrase "Thank you for your interest" for "Welcome on board" without a fundamental misunderstanding of the English language and its contextual usage, I suppose just as much back then as it would be nowadays. He certainly understood the English language, good poet or not. He constantly saught attention, and he certainly got it, all the way to current day.

[@davidcourtenaycarrascogran9067]

Sorry, I think the terminology today is trolling, yes, he was trolling everybody, taking the piss.

[@VesnaVK]

When I was working in Hollywood, I knew a screenwriter who showed me a rejection letter he got from Roger Corman's production company. He sincerely believed it was an offer.

[@davidcourtenaycarrascogran9067]

@@VesnaVK That person may have been a screen, not so much a writer. It seems to me that writing is a difficult if not insurmountable task if one lacks a basic understanding of how the language works in speech, spoken or writen. Being dense or dilusional are other possibilities, but William McGonagall doesn't strike me as having suffered from any of those ailments.

[@VesnaVK]

@@davidcourtenaycarrascogran9067 you think McG couldn't have been delusional?

[@davidcourtenaycarrascogran9067]

@@VesnaVK Well, that certainly is a posibility, but I get the impression he knew what he was doing. I don't know much about the subject and haven't rewatched the video, but certain actions and decisions he made lead me to believe there was somebody at the proverbial wheel. But, you're right, he most certainly could have suffered from some sort of mental illness and/or cognitive impairment. The honest answer is I don't know.

[@superpotato3114]

Cool video

[@eamonnschnell5373]

10/10 video. you can get big in no time!

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Thanks, your comment made my day ☺️

[@penelopegreene]

I used to use Thopas/Topaz as a pen name because I always felt my poetry was bad! 😁

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Haha brilliant

[@penelopegreene]

@@Dr.Johnreads you're no doubt a Chaucer fan!

[@Dr.Johnreads]

@@penelopegreene In troth I am

[@JamesThigpen-MKY]

I like your style dude.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Thanks, James. I really appreciate the feedback.

[@VesnaVK]

Tiny Tim was a wonderful performer. He had a unique camp persona that he executed brilliantly. You might not care for it, but he does not belong as am example of so bad it's good, no more than, say, Andy Kaufman.

[@Enjoyurble]

Yeah, the idea that Tiny Tim is so bad he's good is completely inaccurate. He had a fantastic vocal range, but because he was different and chose to play the ukelele people treated him like a joke and a novelty. It's like saying Susan Boyle was so bad she was good. They didn't fit within what normal people's expectations of what a singer was, but they're insanely talented.

[@VesnaVK]

@@Enjoyurble this is the first time I even heard that people thought this about Tiny Tim. Seemed obvious that he was doing a persona. 🤯

[@Enjoyurble]

@@VesnaVK Yeah, I worded that incredibly poorly. My impression was that even though he was doing a performance/persona he absolutely did not set out to make or believe he was making "bad" music. Like, he may have been doing a performance like Weird Al, but he also wanted/hoped his music was taken seriously.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

It seems my decision to add a clip of Tiny Tim during a section where I’m talking about performers who fall outside the norms of polished delivery has drawn some criticism! I think the same could be said of the magician Tommy Cooper, who I also included. My intention was to widen the conversation about good/bad art and why it is of interest and to draw some parallels with both avant-garde art and performers like Tiny Tim. I agree that it wouldn’t be accurate to say he’s an example of ‘so-bad-it’s-good’, and I’m sorry my video gave that impression. I just think there is a similar dynamic involved: subverting expectations, redefining the norms, and challenging notions of what we are supposed to like. Nevertheless, I am enjoying the discussion here, and I’m grateful for your comments, much of which I agree with.

[@phil7144]

This guys poetry is nowhere near as bad as the garbage Alistair Crowley wrote🤷

[@rivetace]

13:07 Good bad art breaks table legs too, apparently :p

[@VesnaVK]

8:55 wait... does Dr. John not know that Prince Harry's book IS bad? Has he not read it? The book is bad, bad, bad, in so many ways. It doesn't even quite manage to be so bad it's good, unlike his wife's podcast.

[@mater5930]

I would say he contributed in the area of breaking the rules, which is an important part of creativity, albeit he was not very good at it.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

You’re right. Here’s to the rule breakers and innovators!

[@Bigandrewm]

Shooby Taylor.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

I had to google him, and wow. I’m in love. Thank you.

[@Bigandrewm]

@@Dr.Johnreads Yeah. Shooby is incredible.

[@ebonyway9612]

You should check out Irwin Chusid’s book about “outsider artists” (specifically in music) called “Songs in the Key of Z.” Shooby, Tiny Tim, and Florence Jenkins are just a few of the artists profiled in that book. Very interesting read.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

Great recommendation, thanks!

[@neurokodama]

The absolute best genius of bad art is Faraón Love Shady, the ultimate reggaeton musician

[@Dr.Johnreads]

I’ll check it out

[@richiehoyt8487]

It is a bit of a cliché to describe something So Bad Its Good as 'Comedy Gold' but that, to my mind, is exactly what Country singer Red Sovine's 1976 hit 'Teddy Bear' is. While I would not describe it as being deliberately _bad,_ which would rather disqualify it, it is without doubt a cynical hack job that _definitely_ sniggers in the face of its audience. If Liberace famously "Cried all the way to the bank" (brilliant!), Red unquestionably laughed like a drain. His tale, told from the point of view of a gold hearted trucker trawling for contacts on the CB radio in his cab, relates the story of a crippled×, orphaned urchin whose one joy in life is to converse with -lorr- passing truckers on his late dad's old CB rig, against the wishes of his mother who doesn't want him bothering these knights of the road, and whose Christmases all come at once one day after the brave little soldier chokes out his memories of riding high in the cab of his pop's 18 - wheeler, keeping him company. That's all finished now, of course, with his dad gone. Unable to play because of his legs, his only friends are the truckers he raises on that CB. Well, sho' nuff' that noble traveller gets the waifs address and puts the pedal to the metal as, schedule be damned, he will show our little waif a good time -- but, SPOILER ALERT! Every trucker for miles around has descended on 2233 Evergreen Terrace (or wherever it is) where they are queueing up for their chance to bring the kid (handle, I kid you not, 'Teddy Bear') for rides around the county... I mean, the song couldn't even be made today - one doesn't have to have a dirty mind, or even a particularly jaded worldview to cop to the fact that it plays like it's the set up for a kiddie fiddlers fantasy in the same way that if we saw some 'stud' type delivering pizzas to a sorority house full of 'babes' engaged in a pillow fight, who have mislaid their pocket books, it would be a fair bet that this is not a work by Tarkovsky or Bergman! The song has everything; tragic, disabled Tiny Tim (the Dickens one!) figure, _check!_ In fact, iirc, the lad isn't just crippled; in his own words, "He won't be around much longer" - talk about trowelling it on! Parent cruelly snatched away, _check!_ The struggling, sainted widow, _check!_ the wayfaring stranger with a noble heart, _check!_ heroic cast of extras, sure thing! Liberal use of latest fad or gew~gaw (citizens' band radio) - absolutely! The fact that the song dominated the top 10 on both sides of the Atlantic for a good year suggested that Red's many subscribers weren't buying the song out of an appreciation for kitsch or an appreciation for a certain type of irony, they bought into the song 100%, hook, line & sinker; and, nearly 50 years later, the gushing comments on the song's KZbin page suggest much the same. I would surmise there were 3 types of people who were, in the main, buying the record; sentimental housewives of the kind that keep those lurid penny dreadful "My Baby was Born with No Head" and "Why I married the Man who 7aped Me and Set Me on Fire!" Magazines in business; (are they a 'thing' in the States? Obviously they have their own tabloids featuring 'Elvis, Back From the Grave", and "Trump Colluding with Gray Aliens to Steal Election" - type headlines, but their UK counterparts, like Lileth, demand carnage!) Secondly, (I contend) there were those rather tragic sorts of old person who turn a blind eye to the near~blatant thieving of their grandchildren for the purposes of subsidizing gambling debts or drug habits, so desperate are they for company; and who use their welfare cheques to enrich kleptocratic, philandering tele~evangelists; and lastly - truck drivers; well, natch! What _is_ it with truck drivers anyway, the American ones in particular?! Yes, it's true they have a hard and skilled job and I'm sure they do deserve better pay and conditions, and yes, if they wanted they could shut down the economy more or less overnight - but _boy,_ do they ever have an inflated idea of themselves (this is confirmed in the comments on the songs KZbin 'page'.) And Americans buy into this - just check out an American on meeting a trucker - they almost perceptibly stiffen and go into "Thank You for Your Service" mode, which the truck drivers seem to accept as their due. I don't necessarily agree with the way we rank and value jobs anyway, but I don't seem to see bus or train drivers get this sort of acclaim, or even pilots, or for that matter, _doctors!_ 'Influencers' and celebrities, mind you? Probably better you don't even get me started! At least ol' Red, unlike C.W. 'Convoy' McColl (if that _is_ his real name!), was, as far as I'm aware, a bona fide trucker, if that means anything. I think I've sufficiently - more than sufficiently - explained and enumerated 'Teddy Bear's inadvertently comic attributes, but why, you may wonder, the vitriol for the song, or, indeed truckers? Could it be that, having lost a leg, and having once entertained the ambition of having a career as a lorry driver myself, and even a more than passing interest in things 'radio', the song bears uncomfortable parallels with my own life? Might it be that this is a case of The 'Lady' that "Protesteth Too Much"?! Not a chance! I utterly reject that assertion! Pure Co~incidence... This song _stinks..._ but it stinks like expensive French cheese! Given the sorts of people drawn to this video, I say, listen to the song and I defy you to keep a straight face! ×'Crippled' - notwithstanding that I'm the sort of person who prefers to call a spade a spade, given that I've lost one leg and am in the process of losing the other by degrees, I think I'm allowed to use that word!

[@Dr.Johnreads]

I’ll check out Red’s song, thanks for the recommendation and analysis!

[@richiehoyt8487]

@@Dr.Johnreads HaHa! Cool... 'Analysis'? Thesis, more like, unfortunately. I waffled on so much, I'm half surprised you read to the end! I just hope that after building it up (by which I mean, running it down) so much, it lives up to the hype!

[@Dr.Johnreads]

What a cheesy brilliant masterpiece!

[@richiehoyt8487]

@@Dr.Johnreads Isn't it though?! 😂 ps - I'm quite flattered that you went to the bother of listening to my recommendation for yourself, thank you.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

I’m new to this KZbin thing, and one of the aspects I’m enjoying the most is the interactions with good folks like yourself who took the time to watch my little video and make comments and suggestions. It’s really why I’m doing this, so thanks for your input. I just might find a way to use Red’s song in a future video!

[@futurestoryteller]

After watching this, I like to amuse myself with the mere possibility however minute, that if there _is_ such a thing as reincarnation William McGonagall could legitimately be the reincarnated Shakespeare, with brain damage.

[@Dr.Johnreads]

An interesting proposition! He *did* write a play (which I didn’t get on to) which was staged in the 2000s I believe.

[@theodderotter6635]

Frank Zappa reference