"Good Times" - The I.Q. Test (1974)

Michael Evans refuses to finish an I.Q. test, citing racial discrimination and inequality.

[@Mr._Moderate]

"How are you gonna know where I'm at, if you ain't been where I've been, understand where I'm coming from?" 🙌🏿 That part got cut off but is the best line in this episode 👍🏿

[@jlcotton19681]

Yeah, we he was speaking to the test administrator. You a regular big head ain't ya? Lmao

[@Mr._Moderate]

@@jlcotton19681 what message are you trying to convey?

[@jlcotton19681]

@@Mr._Moderate that's what James said to the test administrator. The dorky guy with the glasses?

[@Mr._Moderate]

@@jlcotton19681 yes

[@Mr._Moderate]

Real Talk, young Michael may be my favorite all time Tv character 🙌🏿👍🏿

[@caminokid2656]

James if my favorite. I wish he never left the show. A strong father figure like my father. And don't take no shit.

[@covfefe_drumpfh]

0:59 This is where y'all you need to skip to: where the little boy mentions the question on the test, and the answers to choose from. Question (paraphrased, since it was one of those SAT-type analogies of _------- is to -------- while --------- is to --------_): Where would you set your cup? a. table b. saucer c. floor d. (can't recall _d_ ). The little boy mentions how most of them choose _A_ because that's what they *ALL* do. However, the expectation is to choose *B,* despite nobody around them uses *B.* irl.

[@Minister1246]

These shows tackled real issues that would be taboo today. The race issue was something all of those shows had in common. Maude led to Good times. Maude was Edith's cousin in All in the Family and the Jeffersons were the neighbors of Bunkers. The all spoke of those issues. Not to forget religion. Everything was fair game. Loved this episode though.

[@catscats50]

Racial discrimination is a real problem and it's very unpleasant. Having said that the two most racially discriminated against groups in the world Jews and Black's come top and bottom of IQ scores, that would suggest that discrimination or culture doesn't play a part in IQ scores. Also Jews make up only 1-in 450 people in the world but they win one in four Nobel prizes for science and black people don't win any, ever, even though they are 1-in 5 people in the world. I think that we should just be kind to each other regardless of ability.

[@SinewRending]

@@catscats50 Shut up.

[@CREEPYKOULWAH]

When shows made u laugh and think

[@johnjarou2357]

watching this now. i was 20 yrs old in 1974, Flint Michigan. very hard times then in a GM town, let me tell you.

[@lyndelljones5483]

This was a stupid episode. It acted as Black people only know slang terms for words and we're not intelligent. I'm Black, grew up in the ghetto and I heard and used the word residence. I never said pad or crib and knew saucers were put under the cup. I never heard the term ally apple until I saw this show as a repeat in the late 90s. So a lot of what they're saying in this episode is false and ridiculous.

[@jlcotton19681]

Consider yourself lucky then.

[@nassauguy48]

@@jlcotton19681 And you grew up without knowing these facts? I doubt it.

[@TheChadPad]

@@nassauguy48 But why assume that? Why would the question assume that when the information needed to answer the questions correctly is culturally influenced? It will ALWAYS benefit the culture who wrote the questions!

[@staceysmith5587]

The writer of this show knew what he was doing because these are real issues in and within the black community to this day

[@covfefe_drumpfh]

Or anyone who's just *not* raised as a Middle-Class WASP. In 2016, I had to have a *FULL MENTAL HEALTH BATTERY ASSESSMENT* for a civil court (family) case. It included an IQ test. I scored a 110 in overall IQ, with my strongest portion being verbal reasoning and a reading . The test facilitator was informed I have dual native language mastery. Said facilitator adjusted the test and the scoring to reflect my dual language native skill. Next year, I went for a second opinion due to something written on said evaluation that could have extremely negative repercussions in the future: especially since what was written was something highly circumstantial and has been largely rectified by that point. The results from the previous one were not taken into consideration (second opinion and all). However, I *DID* inform the examiner that I am a dual native as well (so they could do what the other examiner did, and adjust accordingly). However, when it was time to give the score, this tester (unlike the first one) subtracted some points across multiple parts. Their reply? _We are aware you told US you're dual native in more than one language. However, we have to score strictly based on the language the test is written: this version doesn't allow for that._ Great. The second opinion entirely _erased_ the fact that I was raised learning two languages simultaneously. That heavily affects how I see and process information. Five years later (last year), I went to get my formal (paper) diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Diagnosis and ADHD. On top of the super duper obvious (autistic/Asperger's, DUH!!!! with ADHD-combined), it also had the two prior assesments at hand, and readjusted some of the scores with new information from new tests, new questions from additional collateral information, and of course this provider did the same as the first one: they adjusted for dual language native, and again, IQ of 110. Not just because they had the info from the first assesment, but it remained constant once more with the new information given at hand since she had to calculate my 2021 age and all. There was one thing that did stayed constant across the three tests: my reading proficiency is above college level reading comprehension.

[@covfefe_drumpfh]

BTW: I was raised in rural Puerto Rico. Very _country/hick:_ and while I learned to work the land, raise livestock and other farm animals, I also spent ungodly amounts of time reading (whether it was my grandpappy's newspaper or some old magazine... I read everything at hand), learning everything around me and spending whatever free time I had at the library. Yes, I was that weirdo with the books when I was in school. Then again, when I was in middle school and they needed someone for the FFA competitions... that person was me.

[@stephj505]

I think that the test is more classist than racist.

[@cryptaku3404]

To be honest, classism is just racism with collateral damage.

[@chrismkimmel1]

Just because you haven't see it doesn't mean you don't know what it is.

[@capacola262743]

did you ask him if he knows what a non sequitur is? bitch.

[@nassauguy48]

Exactly. The fact remains that Michael, who was just as poor as the other kids in his school, DID know the answers to the IQ test. Face facts, the kids who failed were simply not bright.

[@jpzadeh2054]

With that you mean, with respect to the racism and bias in IQ testing, which has prevailed.

[@zadeh79]

The kid has more wisdom than many adults.

[@Denise6000-cs4mo]

Lol, I love J.J.'s outfit!

[@teresawicks9859]

Michael spoke the truth and it's still the same in 2019

[@Romans8-9]

He was a racist little brat.

[@samuelgriffin9364]

IQ tests in most schools anywhere from elementary to high school tells a kid who's smarter and highly motivated

[@minorityeconomicdevelopmen2281]

If that was true in your comment, then why didn't white America published all of black peoples inventions, in the white American history books. We blacks invented the Wireless Cellphone, the World Renown INTERNET, the Web Search Engine, the Email.com, the Fiber Optic Wirers, the High Speed Langague the powered the INTERNET: Why are these questions not submitted or included in the I.Q. Test. In white America SAT Testing?

[@SinewRending]

No, they do not.

[@capacola262743]

my friend hakim answered "cup and afro". see? the test was bad.

[@sammavacaist]

Sigh. We're still trying to explain this to white people today. This was almost 50 years ago.

[@dredre_lj2003]

Heck maybe even longer than that

[@ricklamb6491]

Get an education and get a fucking job

[@dishrod3516]

Trying to explain that you don’t know the word residence?

[@calebrichardson5259]

Ngl this is basic common sense

[@sammavacaist]

@@ricklamb6491 I went to Yale and I'm well employed thank you. You really think you know what you're talking about don't you?

[@jefferyyelton9590]

I've never used saucers in my house....that is a simple vocabulary question...has nothing to do with "racial identity" or "culture". Just vocabulary and word comprehension. And the "guest bedroom" question...Please. Once again, most homes don't have those. It's part vocabulary/word comprehension (define "guest bedroom") then it becomes a simple math "word problem". Smoke and mirrors/misdirection...if a segment of society has a problem with language comprehension, lets admit that and tackle that instead of excusing it. It will improve everyone's life and standard of living not to mention avoid misdirected anger and frustration over why there is lack of success in some communities.

[@OsirisXXX]

You do realize you are responding to a (issue) that was over 50years ago. The fact you are writing it so passionately is very comical😅.

[@jefferyyelton9590]

@@OsirisXXX Thank you for agreeing with me that the belief that standardized testing is racially biased is a foolish and ignorant concept best left to the dustbin of history with other bad ideas like communism and eugenics, anyone supporting this notion truly is living in a racist world 50 years gone by.

[@BRITTWOODNESHIE]

I'm watching the episode where Michael had gotten suspended because he called George Washington a white racist. And I'm just so appalled at how Florida and James tried to change Michael's mind and opinion. If that's what Michael thought about George Washington, then that's what he thought and that was his opinion. I do not get why Florida and James were acting so hysterical and James wanted to beat Michael. It's like they didn't want him to have his own opinion on George Washington. Just because he was our so called (First President) and is on our money does not change that fact that he still owned slaves. So this episode really made me mad. I would have just had to get a beating because I would not have changed my mind. And I would've gotten another beating because I wouldn't have apologized to the teacher for the way that I felt.

[@LBF522]

I agree. The Founding fathers did own slaves so he was correct.

[@Mr._Moderate]

Just watched it today at 8:30 04-04-20 😂

[@jonathanlewis6240]

Michael’s parents didn’t deny George Washington owned slaves, they just didn’t want their son to focus on irrelevancy of our first President/ Founding Father while ignoring his legendary achievements on our country’s behalf, and they were absolutely right in their intentions. Let’s also not forget the time periods of GW and Good Times are 180 degree opposite and (little known fact) GW let his slaves go free while on his deathbed.

[@jonathanlewis6240]

@Frederick Wells True they did, but that’s not the point.

[@jonathanlewis6240]

@Frederick Wells That he can believe what he wants and is entitled to his beliefs, but that doesn’t mean he’s always right or on point.

[@yahbow31]

can you upload the full episode, thanks

[@zadeh79]

Intuition (as a sudden insight), works best when dealing with very complex systems, that cannot be analyzed with the limited scope of IQ (limited by working/short-term memory +- 7 digits). Intuition in large systems allows for arbitrary pieces of that system to be arrange into new models, which are then further analyzed for information. The usual reason why most people are opposed to IQ tests, whether they know why or not, is because conventional reasoning theory suggests that reasoning involves merely analyzing sets, for example, 2, 8, 10, 40, however, these theories disregard the fact that novel sets can be constructed by the individual, for example, I can put together a sequence such as Box, Paper, Line, period, and have an abstract idea in mind - but it is one that I completely created, even if my influence of selection, did involve similarities or factual information, the specific selection and arrangement of these items contains novelty, which IQ tests are blind to. In very complex systems , like math or physics, the brain requires to pull ideas that are very distant and arrange them new ways - even when creating proofs and conjectures. The pre-analytical processes, reflect essentially, the experimental capacity of the mind. The great thought experiments of history are based on empirical connection of ideas; Galelios free fall, the Fizeau experiment, Einsteins relativity (Einstein a big believer of intuition). There is around 1000 years of philosophy that is dedicated to the power of observation and experimental thought (several hundred dedicated to a priori), yet reasoning theory has nothing to say about this.

[@DMWayne-ke7fl]

Shut up boomer.

[@zadeh79]

@@DMWayne-ke7fl You didn't even give me the courtesy of citing your asshole.

[@atlantic-yq2wr]

This episode was so inane. Michael claimed that black kids in the ghetto never saw a yacht, and therefore had no idea what that could be. He then said how they had no idea that a cup went with a saucer because saucers were not used in the ghetto. HELLO! Most white kids have never seen a yacht, and most middle class households use glasses and mugs rather than fancy cups and saucers, but we still knew what these were as kids! What about the study of history? We were expected to know whom these figures were even though they lived centuries before us. The stupidest thing is when the Evans parents decided to give the high school principal a test in which all ghetto terms are used, and he of course flunked it. Well, an Italian from New York can give a test on lower East Side of Manhattan terms to someone not from that culture, and they of course would flunk. In fact, we all have our own codes and lingo from our respective ethnic groups and regional areas, but that does not mean others are expected to know these. However, as AMERICANS, we are all supposed to be united in terms of recognizing and knowing what are universal American terms or simply common sense facts. In the show, Michael was an avid reader, and that is how he knew all these facts. Well, perhaps if his neighbors did the same thing, they would have passed the test as well. This episode was so divisive, and for the first few years it was on, so was the whole show. (It did mellow out in later years). Jimmie Walker, a conservative, later admitted to being put off by a lot of the activist dialogue in the show, and was instrumental in its later mellowing out and reaching out to the white audience.

[@korymillett6455]

atlantic 11561 I agree with you this episode was ridiculous. I grew up in the ghetto too, but I knew what a saucer and guest bedrooms where. That wasn't a white test, it's a common knowledge test.

[@atlantic-yq2wr]

Kory Millett Thank you, Kory. It helps to get affirmation from someone of that background, and I appreciate your objectivity.

[@francisnyarku5296]

This episode was on point. Your example is a false equivalence. Standardized testing has been used as a tool by the Eugenics and Beyondist movement as an effort to filter who we allow to progress in American society. Raymond Cattell was a leading developer of standardized personality tests as well as a eugenicist and the founder of Beyondism and suggested what he called “genthanasia,” or the “phasing out” of unfit racial and cultural groups “by educational and birth control measures,” as opposed to “literally killing [racial minorities] off. Just look up "Carl Brigham quotes" and you'll quickly learn that the man who created the SAT believed blacks would bring about the intellectual decline of The United States. If you remember this episode you should also remember how quickly scientists came out and said blacks scored 15 points lower, almost just as soon as the test hit public schools. Therefore, blacks are genetically inferior and "no amount of monetary aid or programs can change this" almost stated verbatim from scientist William Shockley on live television. Now inner-city schools have little to no funding, public schools are dying, and if educational bill title 10 is passed, the higher a school districts family median income the more gov funding they will recieve. The ones that have the lowest will actually be millions of dollars in debt. So yes the writers of this show were right about the iq test and Standardized testing in general, and it worked.

[@atlantic-yq2wr]

Francis Nyarku With all due respect, what does this have to do with basic and universal knowledge? Michael knew what the answers were, and there are young people from the ghettoes entering the Ivy League in large numbers every year. Meanwhile, there are white kids from the suburbs who do not even qualify for community college. What about the argument "I wasn't born yet, so why should I know about Harry Truman?" Hello? We have all heard of Aristotle, and he lived over 2500 years ago!

[@atlantic-yq2wr]

Some knowledge is and should always be universal. However, no one should expect African-Americans to be familiar with Italian-American terms, or vice versa, and no one should expect Southerners to be familiar with local New England terms, and vice versa. Those are all examples of parochial knowledge, not universal.

[@LibertarianRealist]

Different decade. Same story.

[@NJGuy1973]

And later in the episode, James and Florida visit the school administrator and ask him questions from a "black aptitude test." Like "What's an alley-apple?" or "What does 'TCB' stand for?" There actually was a thing. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chitling_test

[@nassauguy48]

But that was ridiculous. They were giving him a test based on local slang terms that blacks in other cities would probably not have known the answers to. I was not born into wealth either, but I knew what yachts and limousines were. This episode was highly politicized.

[@mariashavez4254]

The verbal comprehension part of the test is left out when the test is given around the world and blacks still score low.

[@josephtedros2089]

Look at incomes.

[@Mr._Moderate]

What's your point? 🤔

[@Mr._Moderate]

@@josephtedros2089 what about incomes?

[@OsirisXXX]

Black ppl in America were forced to adopt the English language, there is still a lot of resentment psychologically which is why most black Americans don't care enough to perfect the English language, if Russians kidnapped 300,000 White Americans into slavery an gave them very very limited access to the russian language and kept a boundary from the Russian lifestyle for another 200 years and that year of 2224 free those White Americans into their society an expect them to understand everything quickly and test them on Russian culture of course they would be lost and psychologically resentful

[@capacola262743]

my friend Daquan put down "cup and chicken" because chicken is all he can think about.

[@londonrichardson4208]

This is bullshiggy trying to justify Ebonics if you're American you should speak the queen's English

[@crimsonjade6765]

London Richardson your just stupid. learn

[@davidfounds7026]

I agree. There is a thing called common knowledge, or general knowledge. I had to view this video for my psychology class, and I was taken aback how ridiculous Michael's argument is. I was in the lower socio economic level growing up, but yet I certainly knew what a saucer was. And a yacht, come on, the only yacht I knew of was the Love Boat. If the kids in Michael's class didn't know what these items were, pick up a book and read. Dave Chapelle joked that, "if you want to hide money from a black guy, just hide it under a book, because they would never pick up one." Let me say this, I love all people, but I'm tired of black folks blaming us for their struggles. Educate yourself, that's all.

[@Keeper23007]

Listen at the "Jewels" this child is dropping! GODS people listen up!

[@ricklamb6491]

Are some of you people serious?? Cup and saucer and guest bedroom racist? Holy f#$k !

[@LBF522]

Everyone knows that a saucer goes underneath a coffee or tea cup.

[@SinewRending]

@@LBF522 You are not "everyone."

[@Melly714]

I'm doing an paper on the topic of IQ tests, and if they should be given or not. I want to use this as an example, as evidence

[@DMWayne-ke7fl]

Given your pitiful punctuation. I doubt you will pass the class.

[@DMWayne-ke7fl]

@ogramzy Your opinion is worthless compared to the evidence.

[@007fan091]

I like this episode

[@willard2729]

Ha ha ha ha ha! That Norma Lear was a laugh riot! The only thing funnier than this was Maude's abortion episode. Now THAT was hilarious!

[@zorro9992]

This show and All In The family would be considered very racial if they were new shows of today! We have come along way with race relations until the liberal media made race an issue again within the last couple of years!

[@terbospeed]

+zorro9992 What exactly are you talking about, what is 'considered racial'? And who exactly do you mean by "we" when you say "we have come along way"?

[@zorro9992]

terbospeed The way the blacks talk about whites and the way whites talk about blacks. If you listen to Michael's radical talk on race on this show and Archie's radical talk against races on his show, you would know what I am talking about when I say "We" because we don't have that race talk on T.V series anymore. At least not to the degree that it was in the 70's. I know that both characters of Michael Evans and Archie Bunker are fictional but I think you know what I mean.

[@terbospeed]

zorro9992 Racial talk isn't in sitcoms because it is not allowed. Race talk is in the news, but is censored to narrow criticism & confusion. Racism is not an attitude, that is simply prejudice. Racism is bias plus power formed into institutions perpetrating oppression, and the economies that depend on this present-day exploitation: the system of White Supremacy. Racism is embedded into every facet of European life, yet when non-white people discuss it and point it out they become 'racist'?

[@zorro9992]

terbospeed Racism exist on both sides. I will say here in the U.S the race card is played quite often.

[@terbospeed]

You misinterpret. Racism is prejudice *plus* power. Prejudice is inherent in everyone. If 'blacks being racist against whites' caused whites to not get jobs, not find housing, not get adequate education, and not be able to pass wealth on from generation to generation, that would be an argument; but peoples feelings don't do more than trigger pre-experienced trauma.

[@jpzadeh2054]

The RPM , 'generally', correlates highly with g, but it's designed to measure fluid intelligence - not general intelligence. Mind you that the RPM is highly loaded in the visual spatial component (visual closure/working memory, perhaps with a small crystallized component) So much so, that 'white' males, have a 5.3 point advantage over their respective females. This is well established. The most accurate IQ tests currently available is probably the Woodcock-Johnson III, under the new CHC theory.

[@SinewRending]

The I.Q. test is completely false.

[@constancekreese4921]

Iq is only a measure of how much you can absorb..also not a measure of common sense or other types of intelligence etc

[@capacola262743]

you have no idea what you are talking about. your comment is completely false.

[@catscats50]

IQ is a measure of the brain's potential. It's possible to have a high IQ but be totally ignorant. IQ is the equivalent of a vessel and liquid is the equivalent of knowledge that could be potentially poured into that vessel. Mongolia is full of uneducated people but they still score higher than white Europeans on IQ tests despite their very different culture and their lack of education.

[@liecrusher3506]

1,000% B.S.

[@joshuacruz5436]

You got any research or statistics to back that up? Carl Brigham, a psychology professor at several Ivy League schools, was one of the first to implement large scale IQ testing in schools and later create the SAT. While initially used to support the eugenics movement, Brigham himself eventually came to understand IQ tests measure cultural knowledge more than anything else. In the case of this video, racist might be a stretch, but classist certainly seems a fair criticism here. Then again, there is at least some correlation between class and race...

[@liecrusher3506]

In all fairness, there are two issues at hand, one, the Good Times scenario, the other, the overall efficacy of I.Q. tests, as they are used as a benchmark to measure intelligence or “smartness”. And to the latter, the accusations of “cultural bias”, given the presumption of “the man” basing it on his and her specific cultural realities, placing them to be the “winners”. With regards to Good Times, both examples were piss-poor examples of the “cultural bias” or “whiteness of the questions”. The question was undoubtedly an analogy, in which the tested was asked to look analogies; a set of two items that go together (e.g. cigarette to an ashtray), and from there, “cup to ______”). We are then told that black people live in such a parallel, distant galaxy, that those even in the projects, never heard of a saucer. I wonder, as many of our grandparents worked in the homes of white folks, as domestics, and most definitely saw how the “other side” lived. Even if this were not the case with others, if you watched movies or sitcoms showing family life, you saw teacups with saucers. I’ll even go a bit further to say that some of the toys that were made for girls, featured teacups and saucers. How about the dollhouses and dolls? How many times did you see an image of a little girl, serving coffee to her dolls? Even lifting the teacup from the saucer, after [imaginarily] pouring coffee or tea? So, STOP IT, and STOP IT now! Bottom line, the aforementioned test question was about a bit of deductive reasoning and ability to connect dots, not what a saucer was. Given the choices, MAYBE one might choose “table”, but let’s face it, “saucer” didn’t mean “UFO”. Then, there’s the bedroom/guestroom problem, which had more to do with one’s ability to think and reason, mathematically, than knowing what a guestroom was. It was VERY simple; 5 rooms in a house, with a father, mother and 2 children. The parents take room 1, and rooms 2 and 3 are occupied by the 2 children. So now, “riddle me this. How many rooms are left, to become a room for a guest???” - YOU GOT IT - ONE! Besides, next we’ll hear how black people, even in the projects, never had overnight guests, precluding any sense of what the problem was asking. These types of excuses exactly what black people must exculpate ourselves from; this inferiority trip that white liberals foster upon us, so that we REMAIN on the bottom. Now, for my “research or statistics”, of which I admit, I have NONE, outside of anecdotal common-sense and observation, and beyond that, this supposed “plot” to marginalize certain peoples. I didn’t take an I.Q. exam when I was younger, in part, due to the pressure to what you and other liberals speak of, their “cultural biasness”. Maybe, there were questions that did speak directly to one’s personal or collective-environmental experiences, but I’d bet this was far and few, between, IF this exam on Good Times, was any example. And by the way, it is complete nonsense to bring up knowing Malcolm X’ “real name” or what a damn “Alley Apple” is, as some sort of proof that a) in “our” territory”, we’re more intelligent b) it only goes to show that intelligence is relative (to that point). Let’s get it straight. In the REAL WORLD AMERICA, more people will be exposed to a saucer or be expected to understand MATH, than Malcolm X’ slave-name or what a ghetto name is for a brick (I mean, I laughed so hard AT THIS. Is THIS the best we can do to plead our sorrowful case???). Now, I mentioned that I’d not taken an I.Q. test when I was a child, but I can say, if you go online, you are more than welcome to take up to date exams that do not test one’s “ghetto-worthiness”; or whether or not I know what truffles, demitasse, debutants or polo-ponies are, but rather, one’s ability to examine patters of numbers, shapes or words. I took two tests -- so, I’m NOT A GENIUS, O.K.??? But, I realized my strengths and weaknesses along that line, and perhaps, as I’d inferred earlier, the test content could have changed, in order to avoid having to deal with more crying and hand-wringing about how “unfair” and “stacked” the tests are. If blacks do badly on these and other tests, then blacks must figure how to get “smarter”. Black parents need to spend more on educational programs, especially during early childhood, and MUCH LESS on sneakers, i-phones and WEAVE-HELMETS.

[@joshuacruz5436]

Okay, maybe you're not a genius, but I appreciate your thoughtful response! You raise a lot of good points. So, as I read through, it seems like one of your issues is that black people are typified by the presentation in Good Times, as though no black people know what a saucer is, that they can't know what a saucer is, and that they shouldn't be expected to know what a saucer is. I think that's a fair criticism. This is also set 40 years ago. Having not lived though the Civil Rights movement and its immediate aftermath, I can't say how exactly differences existed. You're probably right, though. The world is much more globalized and integrated, and most people probably have access to the idea of "saucer" at this point. Race maybe is not a good excuse at this point for not knowing "saucer," but maybe the examples were less piss poor at the time? Again, I think the issue now is more one of classism and, to a degree, ethnocentrism rather than racism per se. Cultures can deal with more than just race, right? I also don't think it's a matter of "the man" trying to keep others down so much as it is just the fact that our own cultural norms are typically taken for granted. There are many cultures and ethnicities that simply don't use cups and saucers, and that doesn't have anything to do with blackness. Some don't even use the utensils that we're used to: many Asian cultures use chop sticks, Ethiopians use injera. If someone is raised right outside of Gangnam, Korea, they probably have access to forks and knives, even if those things aren't immediately a part of their cultural traditions because major Asian cities are pretty westernized. Then again, someone raised in the plains of Mongolia might be hard pressed to tell you what a fork is, much less a saucer. I have no idea if and where Ethiopians use forks and knives and saucers. I went to grad school with a Chinese student who would regularly ask me the meaning of things that I took for granted. She was very smart, but I imagine she would call a saucer a "small plate for the cup." It conveys the same idea. An example that I remember: we were talking about pancakes, and I had to explain to her what "batter" was, as opposed to dough. She got the idea; she'd just never heard or used the word before. Hypothetically, any test that asked her about batter would be measuring her command of English idioms, rather than her intelligence. Cigarette to ash tray is an interesting one, particularly since cigarettes seem to be on their way out the door. I imagine "ash tray" might be a foreign concept to a suburbanite white kid whose parents never smoked (look who's stereotyping! It's me). Smoking isn't glorified much in the media anymore, so I don't know where, say, an eleven-year old in this situation would have access to the idea of ash tray. And to figure out what an ash tray is for one who's never been exposed to smoking... well, you'd have to first figure that cigarettes create ash as you smoke them (probably not a consideration you've given if you've never thought much about smoking), and then that you'd need a place to put the ashes, and then assume that's what the idea of "ash tray" refers to. That's a lot of assumptions one would have to make to come to that particular conclusion if they'd never been exposed to the idea of ash tray, which I suspect is happening as cigarettes become less and less popular. So, is it fair to ask someone about ash trays when they have never seen one, of maybe they've only seen one in passing, and have never actually heard the term itself? I learned it early because my grandma smoked like a chimney, but I don't know that I've actually heard or used the term in the past ten years. When we think about it that way, I don't know that the "guest bedroom" question is such a far-out example. Who's not a guest in their own bedroom? Instead of refer to it as "guest bedroom," why not extra rooms for guests, or "spare rooms?" A foreign term is a foreign term. You can try to reason out what it means, but our assumptions aren't always so good. Also, it's not one; it's two. There are five rooms. Parents count for one room. Two kids count for two other rooms. That's three rooms. 5 - 3 = 2. I guess that doesn't have anything to do with you knowing what a guest bedroom is, though ; ) You are also right about IQ tests. They are much more about symbolic logic now. Unfortunately, standardized tests in school are not, and standardized tests have a lot more weight than the trivial "now I know my IQ." I guess the question then is, like you opened your comment with, are we measuring smartness, and how do we get at that? Or are we measuring ability to function in "the real world?" Knowledge of certain cultural norms? Something else? In 2012, I was observing a prison literacy program in Philadelphia that led to inmates getting their GEDs. To graduate, inmates (actually a nice mix of white, black, and a little Hispanic), had to analyze a passage from George Eliot's Middlemarch. I read Middlemarch in my junior year of college and thought it was boring as all getup. Also, no one needs to know who George Eliot is for... pretty much anything. This is an assumption on my part, but I suspect that high Victorian culture is about as far away from these inmates' interests as anything. Are they incapable of understanding it? No. But should they be expected to? What exactly is that measuring other than an ability to internalize white, Victorian upperclass literary cannon? Are there other pieces that they could at least relate to better? Like... probably anything else? I currently volunteer at the local Y to teach GED students reading and writing (actually, I was just there this morning). I think you underestimate that there's a lot of stuff on these tests that have nothing to do with who these students are. They're not stupid (okay, one probably is, but I also think he has a legitimate undiagnosed learning disability), but a lot of them don't even know where to begin to approach this stuff. Tests are getting better, I think. There's been a lot of criticism regarding cultural and race biases in standardized/IQ tests since the 70s. But every few years, the people who make the tests (mostly ETS) have to re-examine the questions. Through statistics and focus groups, they themselves determine that there is an element of cultural bias in some of their questions. And, as you close, there are certainly norms in other cultures that I don't agree with. It's not my place to tell anyone to change them, though. People need to determine what they value, and if one cultural norm doesn't fit well with cultural norms of reading and learning, I'm no more right in my belief that I want to learn than someone else's belief that depreciable goods are the best thing ever. Hell, the reason I'm getting an education is (at least in part) so I can afford depreciable goods! So, as you're clearly well aware, it gets complicated at this point. What is actually a result of cultural bias (I really think there is some), and what is simply complaining because some have chosen to align with a culture that doesn't have the same values as mainstream culture? And then a tougher question: what made the mainstream cultural norms the mainstream cultural norms in the first place? Why can't we question their value? That knowing "saucer" is more important than knowing "ally apple" is only a reflection of a very specific, very current state of affairs that is liable to change at any minute. Intelligence is relative, as you said yourself. But the weight and value attached to this relative intelligence is also, itself, relative. If I'm in a gang fight, and someone says "watch that alley apple!" I'm first going to wonder why they're using such an anachronistic term, but second, forget everything I know about George Eliot and saucers and Malcolm X to duck because I don't want my face smashed in. That's the most valuable knowledge: the kind that keeps you from getting your face smashed in. And I'm glad that in that moment, that's the "mainstream" knowledge I had. Then there's the whole stereotype threat thing, but this is already the longest post I've ever made on KZbin.

[@liecrusher3506]

I DEFINITELY am not a genius. In the problem, given a 5-bedroom house, father, mother and two children, three rooms in total, are used, so there are TWO guest bedrooms left.

[@Minister1246]

+liecrusher 1st, with such a long winded response, it is evident that you have such a high opinion of yourself that you need to use sooo many words to prove your worth. 2nd, how what is your age bracket? If you were living when this episode was first aired, you would be living in a generation that dealt with this subject matter. This was an issue that was hotly contested. Further, whose choice is it to determine the standards for education? Let me help you with that answer....White people. Bottom line, being knowledgeable is not determined solely on what books you read, or what social model you are obligated to "Know", or "Follow". There are for sure book smarts, cultural smarts, street smarts, etc, of which many of all races can be ignorant. In other words, IQ should never be determined by having to know how the "White" folks in the country live, without having to know how the Blacks, Hispanics and Asians live, etc. and all be held to the same standards. This is why the SATs have been drastically changed to truly reflect the measure of a person's overall academic performance in an unbiased way.

[@domjay]

Uff - And now look at us ...

[@xcfs1000]

Words r hard n stuff no wut I mean?

[@ctbt1832]

There are no one like James lol

[@irateirishman729]

bixnood muhfugguh

[@candyrashel138]

ha ha how funny videos and i like it

[@fergoesdayton]

They are speed (short term memory) biased..... Source video IQ tests are biased

[@capacola262743]

wrong!

[@brotherfirst4388]

KZbin IN THE CHI STREETS WITH BROTHER FIRST