38. John Wesley

[@sheltonadams5526]

John Wesley was a good man. He preached the gospel in the mean streets of England. He prayed without ceasing. He visited prisons preaching the Gospel. The pope hated him. In today's world, we need people like John Wesley. What a godly man.

[@flytiger53]

This was the best lesson hour possible on the life, teaching, and interacting of John Wesley and George Whitfield that could possibly exist. It is truly a teaching work of inspiration by Holy Spirit in the body and mind of Bruce Gore. Being a Methodist myself for 37 of my 70 years, no fairer evaluation of faith-lead free will Arminian teaching vs. passive Calvinistic salvation could have been crafted by any Christian than what I just saw in this Bruce Gore video. My personal conclusion is that the Arm-Cal divide is a human misunderstanding of God's timeless saving grace by placing God in the constraints of the TIME dimension by humans, which God's eternity certainly is free from. I think that as science keeps progressing and exposing God's work in His vast Creation, the differences among Protestants on such delicate issues will fade.

[@ayobithedark2772]

Beautifully said

[@hillsrus4]

To fellow Christians, we need to share series over and over. It’s a shame this video doesn’t have over a million views. Bruce has a great mix of knowledge, humility and grace in bringing the important topic of church history that needs heard. That’s not flattery Bruce, just truth, Press On (Phil 3:14)

[@GoreBruce]

I am very grateful for your kind encouragement. God's richest blessings to you and yours.

[@jazzjazz8815]

I so grateful for these lectures, I am learning so much ! Dr. Gore is excellent in not only the academic aspect of the lecture he is giving but also delivers these lectures in a captivating and entreating fashion. I am now motivated to enroll in graduate school to study theology.

[@derrickjamesfoxtrot1770]

I'm really loving this whole series, and Bruce, you are a legend who God has gifted to teach. Thank you for your work and passionate teaching style. I have learnt so much about the church and God's faithful people through the years from this series and can't wait to dive into the next one I find... It is sad to see how the church has become so mixed up in different denominations that all differ but claim to be correct. There should only be one church, and that should be the church of God. All the denominations do is confuse everyone and make people turn away because of it. The result of which in the extreme would be your Mormons and jehovah witnesses (who are the complete opposite of what their name suggests). The only book we need is the word. The only church we should have is the church of God. But it is what it is and God is in control of His creation and church. Thanks again. All praise to God.

[@jd-gw4gr]

100% agreement with bruce's sunday school closing remarks Amen

[@jamesdinallo236]

john the baptist stated: "behold the Lamb of God who takes away the Sin of the world" i believe that sin taken away by our Lord is blindness, He. Jesus. takes away the blindness and opens the eyes of the elect, Amen. Father God thank you for bruce's ministry who i hope to see you on the other side, Lord willing. Amen, even so, Come Lord Jesus.

[@dorothyp7385]

Rest in heavenly peace John Wesley

[@lizuliana]

Bruce I love your teaching. I have been a Christian for three years now and your teaching here on total depravity was very helpful. The rest of your lectures on church history have been very insightful and encouraging. Thanks you for your efforts and inspiration.

[@656trav]

I have been reading history for over fifty years, voraciously, and have only recently discovered your work. It is obvious you are passionate about the subject and about Jesus Christ.....Thank you so much for this great resource. You may become the Will and Ariel Durant of Church video history.

[@GoreBruce]

+656trav Thank you!

[@ambienified]

I am absolutely captivated by your teaching. You are a perfect balance of a preaching/teaching ministry with such a clear anointing from the Holy Spirit. As a born again Christian, and a Southern Baptist, I have struggled with the doctrine of election and predestination as tought from the Calvanistic view point and pretty much considered myself to be a two-point Calvinist. Thank you for the way you share God's Word. So simply, yet so eloquently. I have listened to 3 or your lessons tonight and plan to listen to more. Please continue to share. “The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine on you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward you and give you." Numbers 6:24-26

[@GoreBruce]

Thanks for your very kind remarks!

[@JohnSmith-bp1er]

Thank you so much for the class...love it ..i am a recent Calvinist convert

[@GoreBruce]

John Smith Welcome home!

[@jacobhaynes9952]

Bruce Gore thank you mr Gore !! I praise God for truth

[@flytiger53]

BTW, Susannah Wesley, John and Charles' saintly mother, should be given earthly credit for the founding of the Methodist Church in America along with the works of her sons. Without her prayers and teachings, there would be little chance her poverty-stricken family would have impacted 19th Century America at all. I'm not mentioning England being spared the European multiple Revolutions of 1848 by John Wesley, who performed Whitfield-style revival and awakening of potential rebels for brevity sake.

[@jd-gw4gr]

at the time of our death unto life, we will finally reach perfection: sinlessness. finally! Amen

[@cuvantul.evangheliei_]

Extremly great lecture!❤

[@johannahornbuckle377]

Listem to many of your lessons. Very very good. Disappointed to be told that i am not a calvinist because of my own vanity, you've never met me

[@systemrevolt7309]

Learning a lot from you sir. In my opinion through study, The second great awakening led to many cults. The emotionalism laid the groundwork for much of the bad theology of today. “Calvinism” or reformed theology is the most consistent with the Bible.

[@BonikaShears]

As a Southern Baptist the TULIP teaching is understandable but the limited atonement is rather horrifying to me. John 3:16 tells me Jesus died for the whole world. I think so much of this is like the trinity ... a mystery we can’t totally wrap our minds around.

[@GoreBruce]

Limited Atonement is easy to mischaracterize. The Baptist Charles Spurgeon preferred to call it 'Definite Atonement,' which gets closer to the idea. Christ's death was certainly adequate to save the world (1 Jn. 2:2), but is actually only applied to those who are ultimately saved. If it were actually applied to everyone, then everyone would be saved, which is not a biblical idea.

[@markporter-thechurchhistor6784]

Whenever I visited Oxford I had the great privilege of being taken into the room where the holy club met. Wesley’s experience of conversion was something very similar to Martin Luther.Luther said it was as if the gates of heaven were opened wide and I felt I had been born again.If you check out my playlist Bruce on John Wesley’s visit’s to Ireland I have visited and recorded many of those places. I have also done a wee recording of George Whitfield,who was the first Methodist preacher who visited my home town of Lisburn in 1751.Wesley preached in the Presbyterian meeting house in Lisburn just across the road from the first Wesleyan chapel 🙂

[@williamjayaraj2244]

Thank you for the message on John Wesley sir.

[@robhenderson1832]

I have loved discovering your teaching on Church history. Wonderful. One slight correction: Wesley's Aldersgate experience was during the reading of Luther's Preface on Romans (rather than Galatians). IMO- The Preface is one of the greatest pieces of Christian literature outside of the Bible. Luther writes: "Faith is a living, daring confidence in God's grace, so sure and certain that a man would stake his life on it a thousand times." Even as a Wesleyan minister, I love the great cloud of witnesses we have with all sorts of backgrounds and contributions that make being a Christian such a thrill. And I have thoroughly enjoyed your presentations, Dr. Gore. Thank you so much.

[@GoreBruce]

Rob Henderson Thanks for the correction! ...and your kind words of encouragement.

[@varasuetamminga9519]

Thank you so much for this series on Church History. I live in Texas where the Catholic Church is trying to take over Protestant Churches. We have the bizarre situation of Italian Catholics trying to suggest they represent the Presbyterian Church. My family are long time Presbyterians and Calvinists and we are constantly being attacked by Black Presbyterian Catholics who feel that all Presbyterians must be Black and Catholic and Homosexual. John Knox is turning over in his grave, needless to say. This strange mix of racism and Catholicism is also taught by our preachers in Presbyterian Churches. So whatever you can do to educate people is most appreciated. I always pray for non violent cooperation between all faiths, but the Catholic Church particularly in Texas is using our medical system to violently persecute Protestants by poisoning them with diseases and then bankrupting their families through medical bills and killing people through disease. They gleefully use this medical persecution as their modern form of burning people at the stake which they feel they can get away with, avoiding criminal prosecution through deceit. Meanwhile our Presbyterian Preachers smile and preach as if this persecution is all just fine as they become Catholic servants to a new Catholic economic aristocracy. Thank you for this history. I pray that all people find a way to restore Democratic freedom of religion to America and return our medical system to devotion to healing and compassion, rescuing it from the religious sadists who pervert it into persecution. Anything you can do to expose these modern medical and religious crimes would be greatly appreciated.

[@michaelwolfe8888]

21:34 "... a gal preach .." Groan - not "we presbyterians." That lamentable egalitarianism is a PCUSA failure, not a general presbyterian practice. Thankfully the PCA and OPC, for example, still hew to biblical guidelines. I have learned much from your lectures, Bruce. You seem like a generally knowledgeable man, and I'm grateful for your work. How you can be part of the PCUSA is a sad mystery to me, though.

[@orlandobrown2490]

My dearly beloved brother, I think you have, indeed, misrepresented Wesleyan-Arminian Theology. Salvation is by grace, through faith in Christ alone - not of works [for all men are dead in sin - therefore there was nothing potentially good in us whereby we can/could be save.

[@GoreBruce]

+Orlando Brown Thank you, very helpful!

[@Music1art]

Yes, he has misrepresented Arminianism getting out through tangents while using words in the wrong sense.

[@deangailwahl8270]

Not sure but I have heard that Mr Wesley was extremely critical of Toplady and had said false things about Him before and after His Death. I had mentioned about a year ago to Mr Gore hoping that he may do a series on Augustus Toplady.

[@weobeyjesus4565]

The problem is many were alive in righteousness in the Old Testament. Your theology depends on everyone prior to Christ being damned, but the Scripture refutes that.

[@blckandwhtknight]

By the very definition arminianism espouses a false state of man. The notion that there is something " good" in man that just needs a sprinkling of grace. The belief deviates from scripture and becomes heresy just starting at total depravity. The bible is very clear. Man is dead in sin. Not kinda almost dead. Everything that follows is indicative of man devised teaching all the way to embracing the eastern orthodox teaching of theosis which, contrary to what this teacher is saying is the heresy of sinless perfection. Some simple research on Wikipedia will give you most of this information. Arminius rejected the sovereignty of God when asked to defend Romans 9. That says it all. Please don't be deceived. Research it for yourself. God is sovereign. He is good. Eternal life is only found in faith alone by grace alone, which is a gift of God. Not the effort of man's will

[@angiewhitlock9818]

The Methodists in the UK interview potential new ministers (hear them preach) the church council prayerfully vote to determine if they will be invited to become that church’s minister

[@claytonbenignus4688]

Not mentioned in this piece is the contribution that Eastern Orthodoxy made to Wesley. 1) The Moravians show their Eastern Orthodox origins by a) deleting the Filioque Clause from the Nicene Creed ; b) using Leavened Bread in Communion, c) Transubstantiation. (Indeed St. Jan Hus is claimed by the Ukrainian & Czech Orthodox); 2) The Wesley Brothers read a lot of Eastern Orthodox source material and heavily borrowed Orthodox Church Music for their Hymnolgy (John Wesly got a good dose of St. John Crysostom in the process) ; 3) Wesley were also well acquainted with Phillip Ludwell III and John Paradise, known members of the Russian Embassy Orthodox Embassy Church of London.

[@Music1art]

Is it possible for some to understand that we humans are not robots but are provided by God with the ability to CHOSE between good and evil? If we cannot chose, then God makes judgement on sentient robots who cannot behave good and so God is unjust.

[@ercb.7299]

Love Bruce Gore. A modern-day Christian giant. With regards to Arminianism and total depravity I do believe he is framing the matter incorrectly. The matter perhaps is better understood by considering Romans 7:19-25.

[@systemrevolt7309]

Wait, gal preach?

[@manlyburns5772]

the debtor prison thing was a source of procuring indentured labor

[@roberteaston6413]

As a Canadian it gives me some perverse pleasure to mention that John Wesley condemned the American Revolution.

[@GoreBruce]

...but if it weren't for the Revolution, what would we all do on the 4th of July? !!

[@roberteaston6413]

@The Expat Dodo John Wesley urged Methodists to boycott tea because it was produced by slave labour. He said that they should drink beer instead.

[@giovanniacuto2688]

Yet because the Anglican hierarchy refused to ordain clergy for the rebellious colonies, Wesley took it upon himself to do that. You could argue that although Wesley died professing to be an Anglican, his action was significant in the separation of the Methodists from the Church of England after Wesley's death.

[@flytiger53]

Not a big deal to Americans and American Methodists for Englishman John Wesley to render unto his earthly prince a loyal quip. One third of American Colonists were Loyalists at the beginning of the Revolution. But I'm glad your Canadian heart is strangly warmed by such trivia.

[@TheBibleFulfilled]

Total depravity is nonsense. We are all made in God's image, and as such, have the ability to choose or reject him. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

[@aclchouston]

Excellent lectures. I am Dutch thanks for mentioning Holland. Unfortunately Holland has become very secular lately. Many Remonstrants were involved in shipbuilding, owned windmills and involved in spreading the Gospel through the East and West Indian Companies. Peter Stuyvesant was member of Dutch Reform church Marble Collegian Church on 5th Avenue later Norbert Vincent Peale church who wrote the book The Power of Positive thinking. Robert Schuller has its roots in Dutch Reformed Church Holland Michigan. I hope someday you will become an Unificationist and Unite the Body of Christ which is so divided and paralyzed IMO

[@GoreBruce]

+Reverend Exler I firmly believe that at some point all things will be united in Christ as King and Lord! (Eph.1:10). Thanks for your kind remarks.

[@timvickers947]

any one know of revival in U.S.A. going on now or a moving of the spirit or know of a website that tell about move of god in america i can not even find a site that even tells of what is going on pleases help

[@JNH1961]

Whitfield and Wesley loved and respected one another , when they asked Wesley if he will see Whitfield in heaven, Wesley replied : Whitfield will be so far ahead of me in heaven that I can only see his backside.

[@GoreBruce]

All these were powerful examples of models of Christian faithfulness! Thanks for the feedback.

[@lucasdelossantos8402]

I’m a Pentecostal from the holiness movement and I have never heard of the holy club :)

[@brucegore4373]

That's where it all got started!

[@lucasdelossantos8402]

Bruce Gore - the holiness movement began with God. Without holiness, no man will see God. Hebrews 12 Pursue peace with all men, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. 15Be careful that no one falls short of the grace of God, so that no root of bitterness will spring up to cause trouble and defile many. 16See to it that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his birthright. 17For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected. He could find no ground for repentance, though he sought the blessing with tears.

[@saved6655]

@@lucasdelossantos8402 he’s just speaking of wesleys history.

[@weobeyjesus4565]

Are there any theologians which say God elects/enlightens/saves those unbelievers who are repentant and willing to repent and follow Christ? As if to say, people have freewill to repent but not to believe, and God makes repentant (righteous) sinners believe whilst making unrepentant (wicked) sinners deluded.

[@tectumstare8219]

Dear brother, Ive listened to your presentation about Whitfield and then immediately to John Wesley and I cannot but help notice the huge difference on how you presented the two, much of Wesleys life story was ignored and much of the focus was on the differences of his theology and the calvinistic theology. I think you did a great injustice to his life story comparing it to your presentation of Mr Whitefield. In short words I believe Mr. Gore you were biased in this part, I hope to see hear another presentation as that of J.C. Ryle

[@GoreBruce]

You may find the following presentation which highlights the remarkable career of John Wesley more to your liking. Thanks for the feedback. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWfVh3qEjcmMh6MThe following is also a treatment of Wesley's contribution:kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6vLZWCFpd6efbc

[@stickemuppunkitsthefunlovi4733]

Is this the one that helped Harry potter? The ginger one?

[@StephenSulyok]

🙏

[@johnnilan7788]

Hey Bruce, do you reject the Gift of the Father -- the Holy Spirit? Calvanists have given us a great work in breaking the bondage of the Roman Church but has produced another result in breaking the bond of the Holy Spirit. Presbyterians are affirmatively angry when introduced to the many manifest scriptures of the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9. 2 Corinthians 11:5

[@ts4925]

😮😇

[@weobeyjesus4565]

Have you ever considered matching Romans 9;14 onward with 9;6-8 rather than 9;10-13? Verse 11 is referring to verse 7, saying that because the Scripture says the seed shall be 'called' (7) we know that Jews are not the children of Abraham/Israel (6-8) because being a Jew is not of being called. The promise was given to Isaac rather than Ishmael (9-10) and to Jacob rather than Esau (12-13) so if it is instead that all who are in the promised seed (Christ) are the children of Abraham then it is true that the seed was 'called'. He is saying that the fact that the Scripture says 'In Isaac your seed shall be called' does not fit with the idea that Jews are the children of Abraham and does fit with the idea that Christians are the children of Abraham. The fact that God said he will have mercy on whom he chooses (15-16) is not linked to (11), it is linked to 6-8 just as 10-13 is linked to 6-8. The fact that God has mercy on whom he chooses is another reason to believe that being a Jew does not make you justified. Remember that 15 and 16 are put forward to prove 14. If 14 is about there being no unrighteousness in God condemning people to hell before they are even born or done evil (misuse of 11-13) then how does the fact that the Scripture says "God has mercy on whom he chooses" (15-16) prove there is no unrighteousness in that? It doesn't. Calvinism makes Romans 9 nonsense. It is saying that the Jews are told they are not the children of Abraham in their own Scripture because their Scripture says he will have mercy on whom he chooses but remaining in the first covenant (being a Jew) is of their own work/choice (not God's choice). So God is not unrighteous (14) as if he had forsaken the children of Israel (to whom the promises were made, 5) because Jews are not the children of Abraham (6-13) and their Scripture tells them this by telling them God chooses. It's similar to 3;1-8. Romans is about how Jews were not the children of Abraham but in another sense they were. It is not teaching Calvinism or Faith Alone. It is saying God is not evil for forsaking the Jews (he had made promises to never forsake the children of Abraham) because being in the first covenant never made the person a child of Abraham (justified). I have some PDFs on my website. Romans and Galatians are some of the least relevant letters in the New Testament unless you are trying to sort out whether Christians need to be Jews and whether God broke his promises to the children of Abraham. we-obey-jesus.weebly.com/doctrine--pdfs.html

[@mrnoedahl]

Saying that there is only Arminian or Calvinism is like saying there is only Democrats and Republicans. There is a clear Biblical middle ground which most intellectuals like yourself refuse to look into.

[@JNH1961]

I am not a Weslyan but I found it amusing you re mentioning TULIP during this study of an Arminius , haha.... Romans 9 my dear brother talks about the election of Jacob over Esau and not for salvation but to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Paul is quoting Genesis 25:23 and God foreknowing Esau selling his birth rights. If i can indulge in mentioning how many times the Bible talks about men choosing I ll run out of ink.

[@larrylafferty3836]

THE TWO THIEFS ON THE CROSS BOTH HAD TO MAKE A CHOICE ONE DID BY FAITH ALONE WHEN HE SEE THE LIGHT BY HIM CHIOOSE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@saved6655]

Yes and I would run out of ink on Gods sovereignty over salvation, sanctification, spiritual gifts, he allotted a certain amount of faith to each of us. Faith is a gift my friend. He allotted a certain amount of faith. Do you get that?

[@JNH1961]

@@saved6655 no my friend salvation is the gift. reread ephesians 2....not that faith isn't but the passage says salvation is a gift from God

[@saved6655]

@@JNH1961 well my brother, I think you know as well as I do this goes back a long ways. I doubt we will end it but let’s dialogue a little. I want to make one thing clear, I view both sides as brothers and I’ll treat you that way. Ephesians 4: 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. Romans 12: 3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. Yes both of these passages are referring to spiritual gifts but he allotted a certain amount of faith to each which was a gift to work out his plan perfectly in the church. Each person gets not chooses to have but gets a certain amount of faith to work his gift in the church to the glory of God. It’s all wrapped in one present. “God has allotted to each a measure of faith.” “But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.” So what is that gift? Well as it says faith. I’m not just looking at Ephesians 2 and saying see there it is. This is all just a part of Gods plan, my friend. Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; So faith is a gift “God has allotted to each a measure of faith.” These meanings of measure and gift in Greek are important. Measure in Greek “metron”means, a limited portion, determined extent, portion measured off, measure or limit. And the word gift in Greek “dōrea” a gratuity, free, so you don’t purchase it, you don’t earn it you are given it. So the source of that gift is Christ and he has a determined extent of this free gift to edify the body, each one of us in diversity to help in ministry in some way.

[@JNH1961]

@@saved6655 (A)For by grace you have been saved (B)through faith, and that not of yourselves; (C)it is the gift of God, 9 not of (D)works, lest anyone should (E)boast BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED AMD IT IS A GIFT...SALVATION IS A GIFT THROUGH FAITH...its simple English brother 😄 and God bless you

[@dmitrykishko3947]

I believe in predestination but dont agree with all the points of calvinism and do not consider myself. I also know that predestination does not take away free will. The whole mystery is very simple and Christ tried to tr all about it many times, however today, most of christianity compleatly misses it. The whole point is that there are children of God, and there are children of satan. Children of God are not all Christian's, but for there sake the trueth is preached, eventually reaching them and bringing them to Christ. There nature as Gods children draws them to God. The nature of devil's children does not. There for each group still has free will, and by there own will choose what is closer to them because of there nature. It is all about the nature of a being.

[@giovanniacuto2688]

As a determinist I don't believe in free will. Nobody chooses their genes or how they are brought up. The Jesuits had a saying. Give us the child for the first 7 years of his life then you can have the rest. Just genetic inheritance and the first 7 years of conditioning are enough to fix the pattern of a person's life. That is how the elect come to be chosen and the bible says there are far fewer of them than most Calvinists imagine. Even the actual choices that we make can be considered predictable in the light of those factors. Chance plays a part but even what we do about the opportunities or disasters that confront us is predictable.

[@saved6655]

Romans 5: 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned- “so death spread to all men” all men at birth are children of satan. 1 John 3:1-2 See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. “the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God” obviously starring we were not at one time then John shows us that’s exactly what he’s saying. “Beloved, now we are children of God” not that we were but now we are.

[@mrnoedahl]

Here is a prime example of the tricks Calvinist use. He states John 6:44. 44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. And says that the word draws is a very strong word, and can be translated as drag. And he is correct; but it is not here translated drag because of the context. Also the very same Greek word is used again in John 12:32. 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. The very same word and the very same meaning. One can be used just to prove Calvinism, and the other to prove Arminianism. This is why this debate is pointless. Both are wrong. You have to take the Bible as a whole to prove a Biblical Doctrine. You cannot cherry pick verses and call something a Doctrine. There is predestination, election, and there is also mans choice because the Bible says so. That is just the way it is. We need to discuss it in light of every scripture. Sola Scriptura. Right? Not what some church father or tradition says, but Scripture ALONE. 1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree together, so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be united in mind and conviction.

[@mrnoedahl]

I have never heard a Calvinist give the proper definition of an Arminian. I wonder why? Could it be that they like to be deceptive to win people over to their view? That is being dishonest. This is the part Calvinist fail to see.

[@jenex5608]

I agree this person grossly caricature what arminianius believed about total depravity

[@Music1art]

Calvinism is a mechanical way of thinking. How poor a mind should be to embrace such an unintelligent, extremist and superficial doctrine.

[@saved6655]

I know, you want control, natural human response.

[@dominicblouin1014]

Wrong interpretation of a part of arminian theology, right on many points. Wrong on calvinism wich is not biblical. Great resume of history.

[@dorothyp7385]

Beloved I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as your prospereth 3 John 1 v2

[@saved6655]

Strong stance to say it’s not biblical, I stand behind every point of Calvinism besides limited atonement. Which logically all of us have that doctrine though in some way. We know there is only a few that will make it (Mathew 7) but faith itself is a gift that we are allotted a certain measure of. That’s biblical

[@dominicblouin1014]

@@saved6655 How can a man be saved, by predestination or by a personnal faith under a conviction of the Holy Spirit ? Calvinism is an heresia, a false gospel, no Gospel at all.

[@saved6655]

@@dominicblouin1014 well you might not like it but that is fighting scripture, you can say all you want but the scripture is final authority. We have to use scripture, not the I don’t like that comment. That doesn’t cut it. Look we see faith is a gift, it’s given to us. Ephesians 4: 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. Romans 12: 3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. Yes both of these passages are referring to spiritual gifts but he allotted a certain amount of faith to each which was a gift to work out his plan perfectly in the church. Each person gets, not chooses to have but gets a certain amount of faith to work his gift in the church to the glory of God. It’s all wrapped in one present. “God has allotted to each a measure of faith.” “But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.” So what is that gift? Well as it says faith. I’m not just looking at Ephesians 2 and saying see there it is. This is all just a part of Gods plan, my friend. Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; So faith is a gift “God has allotted to each a measure of faith.” These meanings of measure and gift in Greek are important. Measure in Greek “metron”means, a limited portion, determined extent, portion measured off, measure or limit. And the word gift in Greek “dōrea” a gratuity, free, so you don’t purchase it, you don’t earn it you are given it. So the source of that gift is Christ and he has a determined extent of this free gift to edify the body, each one of us in diversity to help in ministry in some way. We are gifted faith and faith alone is what saves.

[@saved6655]

@@dominicblouin1014 so I send you a response explaining the view. After you told me that what I stand on is heresy and pretty much I can’t be saved. Pretty much telling me Galatians 1:8. I responded and was hoping to get a response that I could learn something from sense my salvation is at hand here. Did you have a good biblical response to my response?

[@deangailwahl8270]

I heard that John Wesley has some issues with Augustus Toplady.

[@GoreBruce]

Yes, of course. Toplady was a robust Calvinist.

[@deangailwahl8270]

@@GoreBruce Thanks for the reply. Love all your studies.