Lifting floorboards? Tips to avoid bouncy floors!

[@TheChipmunk2008]

one tip Andy, the nails aren't always on centre.... if you happen to have a very old house with non t&g flooring you can slide a steel rule or set square down the gap to mark each side of the joist before cutting. Also handy if you don't know before cutting how thick your boards are, measure ON the joist and set your saw blade to that

[@Dr.Stacker]

@@TheChipmunk2008 take off that stupid flag mate your english

[@jackleg693]

The CA glue tip for the spacers is another one of those “it’s so simple why didn’t I think of that” 😂😂 brilliant video as always. Thank you.

[@GosforthHandyman]

No worries at all! 👍

[@childnick]

Spax torx flooring screws are pricey but awesome, they have a clever multi thread design that got rid of all the squeeky floorboard issues I had, highly recommend

[@LNM0000]

@@childnick torx, every day all day. I chucked all my crossheads out.ten years ago.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Will check them out!

[@shandd9640]

I've Had far too many heads snap off recently that I've stopped using SPAX. Thought I was being a bit too happy with the impact but kept happening with using just a drill/ driver. My last time I stocked up on SPAX through Screwfix it cost ~£700 now there sat on a shelf.

[@dougsaunders8109]

@@GosforthHandymandon’t use them when screwing through superquilt when using as underfloor insulation. It balls up the material into little ridges 🤯

[@fenners1290]

I can vouch for Spax also. What about gaps in between floorboards? That’s one issue I’m struggling with at the moment and what to sort that before we get the carpet fitters in.

[@colinprince1633]

I cut flush with the joist and fix a batten to the joist. Trying to cut half and half means you hit the nails and if you don’t get it exact it means your floor boards sometimes are sitting on less than half a joist. Never had a problem doing it this way.

[@terrytopliss9506]

Pride in your work,hits the nail on the head Andy. Thanks for the video.👍👍

[@morganskinner3863]

I was putting the last floorboard back down after renovating the room for the baby we were expecting (nearly 28 years ago). He was due in 2 weeks. I managed to screw through a gas pipe. I’ve never moved so fast - I shot down the stairs, isolated the gas, then opened all the windows. The gas man who came was lovely - he took one look at the Mrs and charged us nothing for the repair.

[@andyc972]

Thanks Andy, sensible suggestions and tips as always and an eye on future maintenance even if it won't be you ! We have chipboard floors here, but I remember the issues from my parents 1950s house that was retro-fitted with central heating, the fitters made a right old mess of the floors and pipes were touching the boards and not well supported you could feel the heat from them through the floor ! I haven't bought any Turbo Gold or Quick Silver for a few months but if I can remember which I replaced I shall go and check the boxes later to see where they're made. Disappointed to hear this though, screw prices (like everything else) have seemed to be going up quite a bit in recent years so there should be no excuse for the quality to be worse also ! I hope Screwfix address the issue and resolve it quickly, this is after all a renowned product for them !

[@DjGiluk]

Great tips, thanks Andy 👍🏻

[@shaun30-3-mg9zs]

Hi Andy, Some good tips there, I was replacing some boards in my bedroom 2 years ago and over the years the boards have been badly cut, not a long the beam just short where I had to replace the wood with some thing wider I used cut offs of CLS timber to screw to the joist and put the replacement board back, it might be a bit of a bodge but I used pallet wood to replace some of the boards a little thinner but as you said I glued lolly pop sticks as spacers the thickness is only 3-4 mm. the floor seems solid and better the old board that have split over the years as my house was built in 1897. as always full of good tips and advice, great video take care

[@colinmottram4429]

Good life advice there Andy - always best to check for an unexpected pipe with a quick reach around so you don't end up with issues, especially if you're expecting tongue-in-groove...

[@fraz3alpha]

Agree on the poor Screwfix screws recently - I got a new pack of 4x40 Goldscrews and ripped the top off loads of them when screwing in with an impact driver - the previous pack was fine, it was a mess.

[@dominicdodd9759]

Thought this was just me being ham-fisted with impact driver - lost several screw heads, requiring the threaded part being drilled out. Then suddenly stopped having issue, so just have been a batch.

[@zzota]

I don't use an impact driver on woodscrews. That's not what they were designed for.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Oh no! Something has definitely changed. And modern wood screws should *absolutely* be able to handle an impact driver. They were fine 20 years ago. 👍

[@Petertronic]

I keep a 6" x 6" mirror tile handy when lifting floorboards, great for getting a view under there & finding hidden things etc

[@Kx110x]

Hi Andy. As a retired electrical contractor , I have found that plumbers and electricians are the worse offenders in regard to floorboard damage . And on one particular job where the plumber was very highly regarded , which admittedly his work held testament to . But seeing him crowbar the boards up , with the obvious outcome , I was less than impressed. And having to run cables under the floor afterwards, it was down to me to reinstate the floor . I spent a lot of my own time getting it all back into place , doing exactly what you have had to do Andy . Happy days as they say , I often see the chap in question and he always asks after me . I suppose we all have our faults . 😂

[@awantamta]

Brilliant advice as usual

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers - glad it was useful!

[@keithharrison1453]

Our place has old non tongue and grooved boards, so I just use a torch to shine between the gaps, and locate the joists that way. As someone else has said, the nails may not be in the centre. Then I mark that with a Sharpie before cutting the boards along the exact centreline of the joist. You can also see wires and pipes that way too. If very complex, or hard to see if there is no gap, I also invested in an inspection camera that is great, I just drill a suitable hole, push the snake end through, and then I can have a good look around to check for wires, pipes and anything else that might complicate things. I added CAT6 throughout the place, so had to create numerous access hatches, so the camera was very handy. I also mark the boards with alignment symbols, to make removal and replacement very easy. I also left heat sealed small notes glued or stapled to the boards, to advise from above where the CAT6 runs. I also added metal protectors over any joists where the CAT6 runs through them, to stop someone cutting or drilling through the Ethernet cables. I also colour coded the bundles of CAT6 that go to various rooms, with a matching diagram in the Patch Panel, so that if anyone is later lifting the boards, they can see immediately which bundle of CAT6 that they are looking at, and which room it supplies. I just used a pile of insulation tape in various colours, and banded the bundles of CAT6 every 3 feet or so, with a unique colour combination applicable to that bundle of CAT6. Most were four cables to each room, or multiples of four to some rooms that needed extra CAT6 Outlets. Another strange but useful tool is a metal detectorist’s wand, the thing they use to hone in on metal once they have dug as close as they can get. These are great for finding nails, or metal of any kind, to avoid cutting or drilling into metal when you are least expecting to do so.

[@Sparrowhawk1962]

Good advice Andy. I always use that 2x3 stuff from the usual building suppliers as that's what I've always got in. As usual.... sensible advise 👍

[@george9710]

What is the reason for trade refusing to replace destroyed old floorboards with new ones? Is it really that hard to find boards new floorboards that match the old ones?

[@nancyf18]

Thank you for some good tips

[@Doug....]

Nice one Andy 👍

[@GosforthHandyman]

👍👍

[@nickwatson2213]

Hi Andy, i've found the Spectre Screws from Toolstation are very good and not badly priced. Also, Spax a great brand.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

Speaking of plastic spacers, our local pub has a tray of them in the bar, for levelling tables! (help yourself) . Thinking outside the box :)

[@bobx2387]

I agree with your views on floorboards. Have had to follow electricians in Grr for years! All you say about screws is true so you can see how I will only use Reisser.... Pricier I know but so reliable. Bob (Albion Decoration) Weston super Mare

[@colingoode3702]

Found any black iron gas pipes Andy? Reminds me of my old 1830 terrace in Watford. I was installing central heating & came across some old iron barrel pipework which turned out to be old gas lighting pipework. However, the pipework was still "live" & leaking under the floorboards on the 1st floor! No wonder I was getting an good nights sleep! Pulled it all out & capped it off. Old houses never cease to amaze me.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

We had one we were rewiring, and used the old plumbed lead gas light pipe to pull in our new lighting cables! (after ensuring it was dead entirely first)

[@GosforthHandyman]

There is a big metal gas pipe but I think it's steel. That's mad on the gas! Was it still connected to the gas main??

[@colingoode3702]

@@GosforthHandyman Yep. The ends of the iron barrel pipes were capped off where the old gas lights had been above the ceiling (lathe & plaster) but there were some joints further back that were leaking & it was still connected to the mains after the meter. There was gas cooker & a gas fire in the house as well, so there but for the grace of god it could have all gone kaboom. Good job I found it early on after I moved in & started the reno work. I got a Corgi guy in to double check for any other leaks & to commission the boiler after I finished my work. All good. 👍

[@PeterOwen-e6y]

If you make the batton your screwing to the joist longer to hold it in place i have always held it in place with screws through adjacent floorboards. To avoid hitting nails when cutting a board in the middle of a joist if the tounge is cut beyond where you are cutting the board spring the board up then knock the board back down the nails usually stay up so you can get claw hammer to remove before cutting the board

[@darrenmillward4445]

You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the screws being made in China.. Chinese steel is definitely inferior to many others.. I used quick silver screws until recently as you mentioned they keep rounding off in the screw head..

[@Pete.Ty1]

👍👍👍. Thanks Andy

[@callumwindsor6516]

I angle grinded some floor boards up to put pipes down for some radiators at a property i bought, about 6/7 boards i took up.. decided to stop and check underneath, no bs.. there was a gas pipe running underneath the next board i was about to cut 🤯 very lucky

[@GosforthHandyman]

Wow - very lucky indeed! 😬

[@adhara.the.chinchilla]

As (amateur) I had loads of time and lots of boards to play with, I actually re-cut a lot of short edges to the centre line, then trimmed down a board to fit in the gap. That left me with only one/two brand new boards to fit, and very few battens to fit. (I was also OTT and took up all the nailed boards that were in 'important places' to rescrew and provide easy access for the far flung future. And electric tape labelled my pipes and wires.) As for screw-gate, I dunno, I've always looked at Turbo as a good enough screw: I splurged on Spectre for the floorboards and it's night and day difference to my amateur eyes.

[@Sphinx2000]

Top top if you getting multiple boards up. Get the first board up, cut between the joist as shown in the video, then get the last one up. Then run masking tape across the floor from the first cut to the last cut, so you have nice cutting line for your saw, dont forget to set the depth correctly so you dont cut into the joist. Also noticed he turbogold screws were orange. Seems like a ripoff as the goldscrew brand from screwfix look exactly the same. Also, predrilling and countersinking the holes can prevent splitting the wood.

[@jakeii9]

The latest batch of turbodrive screws (B&Q and some other spots) I got were an interesting shade of orange compared to usual too! I will keep an eye on their performance 👀

[@redheath]

Thanks for the video. I noticed that things sold specifically as floorboard screws tend to have a large "unthreaded" part of the shank, where the board sits. Any experience with using these vs. fully threaded screws? I think it might be to reduce squeaking?

[@stevebosun7410]

Morning Andy, great tips and advice as always. Can you do a similar video about chipboard flooring? Sorry!

[@DrExpresso]

Had issues with turbo gold aswell, have switched to spax

[@GosforthHandyman]

Such a shame - they used to be so good!

[@adamdougal1644]

At what point do you just replace the board completely?

[@firesurfer]

One joist length is the point! I don't see any point in saving a few shorties.

[@didee3900]

Replace the board when you have no other choice. If you are in an old property you will probably have to get them from a reclaimers as the depth will he different.

[@GARDENER42]

I've ditched Screwfix screws & gone to Timco Torx head (oh & Robertson I get in the US). Cam outs, & sheared heads with little torque (#4 on Bosch 18v drill for 4x50 Goldscrew).

[@DanProcrastinatesDIY]

I bought a handy pack of turbogold from Screwfix a month ago. I've had two of the long screws get the head stripped trying to get out of a 38mm timber with my impact driver. And they were predrilled as well. I don't think my PZ2 bits fit very well in these PZ2 screws.

[@kjw4519]

You need to try Wurth screws, they are a German brand. I absolutely love them and are comparable in price to screwfix spectre screws once you have set up an account. They sell all sorts of fixing and adhesives, there shops are great !

[@briannewton3535]

I've not seen the new turbo gold screws, I had stocked up on a whole wodge of goldscrew when they were swapping to new packaging/discontinuing or whatever. Goldscrew was my preferred screw, though I generally drilled a pilot hole. Quicksilver have been reliable when using plugs. I've not had any issues with Reisser (from Toolstation) , as I got these for in-between sizes that screwfix didn't do. Timco is kinda an unknown, other than the occasional slotted japanned roundheads I get.

[@djstuc]

I’ve started buying Spax with the torx head Andy, sick of Phillips screws in general these days.

[@templar2058]

Timco all the way for me as well now.

[@RB-xg2vz]

Had a whole bathroom floor like this, even floorboards not supported at all…diagonal bits of floor decking (yes the outside stuff) laid horizontally at and angle under the floorboards

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yup - you see all sorts! Some real horror stories on this one. 😭

[@robertbeal]

I tend to avoid cutting on the middle of the joist as it gives neither end very much to fix on to. Instead I cut about 3/4 of the way and give one board more of the joist. Then add a support (glued and screwed) to the joist to give the other board more to fix in to. Spax tstar 60mm are the only things to use!

[@justinnewton9679]

Yes Screwfix screws gone downhill I'm on timco or spax

[@davenoble7350]

We’ve been using turbo gold for ages and also noticed a lot snapping over the last 6-9 months.

[@nomad9000]

I've done the same job (DIY) before and instead of the timber framing screws just used 80mm wood screws. Will I regret that in the future?

[@roberthingley3959]

No!

[@barryford7135]

Spanx or forgefast for me. I rarely use screwfix now since they stopped printing the catalogue.

[@davidhull2060]

Damnation....I've just replenished my screw stock with a load of quicksilver screws! I don't know why companies feel they have to mess about with products that work just to make them cheaper for a bit of extra profit.

[@mathewgallimore1484]

You've answered your own question. Businesses always chase profit to the detriment of the consumer

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yup, this is a big mistake by Screwfix I think. The *only* reason I often went to Screwfix instead of Toolstation was for their screws. So now Toolstation are getting most of my custom since they're much closer. They've removed a big USP there. 😬

[@mathewgallimore1484]

@GosforthHandyman 100% in agreement. Toolstation and Screwfix are both similar distance from me, so more business is going toolstation way. I have always loved the turbogold since moving to them from your recommendation previously.

[@edwardwilliams9185]

I recently repaired my floorboards and was quite worried about edge distance of the screws... should I be worried?

[@GosforthHandyman]

Not sure what you mean?

[@MrLikerBiker]

In support ( no pun intended ) of cutting on the edge of the joist . . . . If you cut in the middle you then have a floor board that is only supported by half a joist width which is not what nature intends. I would make your 3 x 2 section longer so that it extends under the uncut floor boards ( add extra crews) and then screw those to it as well. If possible, zig zag the screws so that they are not in one long line as there can be a tendency for the support to pivot slightly if it is not really tight against the joist. Also, maybe add additional mid section support secured to the other boards to prevent possible bowing

[@GosforthHandyman]

Yeah, true. Although to be fair most houses will have been built with plenty floorboards resting on half a joist. Generally fine but if you can avoid it in high traffic areas it's probably wise. 👍

[@SteveAndAlexBuild]

Great tips video Andy. We’ve found timco products in general are very good . Hip update . I’m doing well . Had my 31 staples out the day after my wife had an emergency hip replacement after falling and breaking hers 🥺🥺🧱👍🏽

[@GosforthHandyman]

Cheers Steve - yeah, never had a bad experience with Timco 🤞. So glad your hip is getting better but oh no - Mrs Steve!! Please send love and hugs from us up in Geordieland! What a couple of months you guys have had. Battle through ready for Spring! x 🌞

[@markhutton6824]

We have cracking tiles in the kitchen... the previous owners laid the tiles directly on the floorboards... there is underfloor heating that was matched to the height of the tiles on the floorboards. My wife think this is a simple fix while I put my head in my hands and cry... Please let me know if you have a solution apart from ripping up the kitchen and dining room floor with water underfloor heating to correct the badly laid tiles in the not heated area . I am taking up the carpet upstairs to remove the creaks and lay a new floor and I am finding so many more small timbers used to provide a "fix" it isn't even funny. I have gone through 2.4m of C24 timber... but I am taking too long according to she that must be appeased.

[@MikaMikaMika89]

I took the floors up in my flat, the squeaks /all/ came from joist movement underneath, and I can't fix it without accessing from below... so I've had to learn to live with them, they drive me nuts. (One joist is supposed to be supported above a doorway, and isn't, doesn't look like they bridged it so the joist has a span that is waaaay too long, and it gives a little when stood on :| adding noggins didn't help) Sadly, I also did what you are suggesting here, didn't help.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Nightmare - can you sister up extra joists or a big metal plate to remove some of the give?

[@MikaMikaMika89]

@@GosforthHandyman would have loved to try more, but with my limited skillset I found myself stumped! I can't just go downstairs and ask to take out the ceiling and myself and my landlord felt like we'd tried everything we could. We probably could have sistered a joist in but that would then have meant removing the entire floor and still potentially pissing the couple downstairs off more, we sort of had to say we'd disturbed them enough. We did put down a thicker floor covering (osb) on top of the floorboards but the issue persisted. Best we tried is finding/removing old nails/screws, tightening the boards, and we added some wood both as noggins and along the length for about 1 meter in an attempt. To be fair, we did get some of the floor noise out (the house is over 70 years old) but these 3 squeaks persist, all related to a joist! I'm sure given time somebody like you could have sorted it but with this sort of job sometimes there's a limit to your patience when you've been poking around the floorboards for days.

[@steveriseborough6366]

It can be handy to add a little glue behind your baton. Belt and braces if a Chinese screw fail. The glue is still there. 🤔😊

[@firesurfer]

I would just rip out the 2 short boards and replace them with full length. It's only 3 foot or so, each one. I get what you mean though. I just don't like shorties. I'm not sure about UK brands but I think drills have gotten stronger lately, turn down the clutch if you can. Avoid Impacts on old work. Green wood won't destroy screws as much. People have gotten spoiled with impacts and don't pre-drill for screws.

[@Kiss4cooper]

10:50 “You can do a reach around for an unexpected surprise” 🤣🤣🤣

[@BrasherFox]

You probably answered the quality problem with the screws Andy. Once made in Taiwan now made in China?

[@casanunda1250]

You had the cause of the issue regarding the screws when you mentioned made in china opposed to made in Taiwan. Taiwanese manufacturers are some of the best in the world whereas China are cheap clone specialists, sadly it’s people wanting cheap and dealers profit margin which causes the switch.

[@thomaslundberg5588]

China can do high quality too. It is just that people have become accustomed to the cheap stuff as it is everywhere. I guess there is money to be made from it so I don't blame them. If people were not buying it then it wouldn't be manufactured.

[@casanunda1250]

@ After 17 years of dealing with both China and Taiwan for business I’ve only experienced what I’ve had. I don’t doubt there is some Chinese manufacturing which is ok but if it was a choice between the 2 I know which one I would go for.

[@GosforthHandyman]

I suspect you may be correct! Although I guess they were asked to hit a certain price point.

[@willemselten]

The problem with China manufacturers is you have to check every batch. If they can be cheaper they will. For a Taiwanese manufacturer they want to make good quality products. If it not meet there standards they will reject it themselves.

[@thomaslundberg5588]

I don't disagree ​@@willemselten. But QA costs money and I guess they don't have justification to do it on the cheaper items. If you look at the quality brands from China such as Xiaomi, Huawei, Haier, they will all have better standards. I've owned products from all of these brands and found quality to be great. Don't mention the controversy with Huawei a few years ago as I believe that was more of a political thing 😂

[@dougsaunders8109]

Of you are lifting any great number of boards use a pallet braker. Recently I lifted an entire ground floor and broke two boards. The tool allows you to get in and under the boards without splitting. £35 why would you not!

[@raminybhatti5740]

Yup, 3x2 was £2.50 for a 2.4m length. But that was before the dark times... before the Coof.

[@GosforthHandyman]

Indeed! And it's no straighter for the extra money!

[@nocode1603]

Was on a job last year Friday afternoon the joiner was bracing short boards & went throu the main concentric cable for the flat to be fair to him he couldn't check the other bay as that's whare staircase landed he was lucky he never got hurt never saw arcs n sparking just about set house up the service provider didn't have cable clipped thay took responsibility 100amp supply what a flash & arking the lad was just so unlucky 😬

[@TheChipmunk2008]

OOF nightmare! On a job recently the bricky was cutting a doorway and had managed to measure wrong by 1 metre!!! I was working on the fuseboard the other side of the wall and managed to stop him just in time, he was about to slice through a PILC 415v supply cable!

[@GosforthHandyman]

That's terrifying - lucky to be alive!!

[@markhutton6824]

When you watch someone with the same level of expectation as yourself. I was building a reading nook for the wife, in a bay window and stupid enough to thin the measurements and angles would be the same at the top as as the point the bench top would be... I am ordering a new worktop... why couldn't builders of the 1930s use squares and measures? To be fair the builders of the late 1990s early 2000s also couldn't use a square as my new build flat proved.

[@Quaker521]

Whilst watching I seen you pick up the nail that had fallen under the floor boards and I thought good move, then you mentioned at the end your dislike of rubbish under floor boards. It is also one of my pet peeves, it is just lazy and unprofessional even for a home DIY'er. I'm running low on my gold screws and was going to buy in a few boxes but now, after year's of use, I think that I'll look elsewhere., thanks for the warning. Cheers.

[@therealdojj]

Ah yes!!!! We've got a bouncy floor and the wardrobes shake when we walk and they didn't before 😮

[@GosforthHandyman]

It's that or giant notches taken out of joists by plumbers. 😬

[@therealdojj]

@GosforthHandyman drilled 2 15mm holes per joist to run the electrics But lifted at least 70% of the boards and at least 20% of the floor squeaks when you walk on then 🤦

[@cuboid5]

Oh man, whoever did some plumbing work previously in our house must‘ve literally ripped boards up as they looked like a wild bear had been at them. The remaining shards had just been fixed back and carpeted over. I had to remove it all, do proper cuts and fix properly. In one area the boards had full weight on the heating pipes, it was a right mess. I’m just a DIYer but this kind of lack of care baffles me. I guess they sold the house at profit, so who cares

[@GosforthHandyman]

Wild bear... 😂 yup - see that a lot!

[@zxxvcc]

Turbo golder

[@DavidMartin-ym2te]

Well what a surprise - Screwfix screws ain't what they were. Nothing to do with switching production to China of course, oh no.... Haven't used them for a while since had some break, especially with an impact.

[@GosforthHandyman]

I'd love to know if that's the case - certainly hearing a LOT of reports of reduced quality. 😬

[@pakijetli]

Who caught the little laugh at 8:16?

[@GosforthHandyman]

😉

[@robertbeal]

Worth avoiding where possible cutting a board that spans only 2 joists. 3 is always the minimum to avoid any issues.

[@blahblahblah742]

I've replaced some floorboards in my 1930s semi with 22mm P5 chipboard ,D4 glued & spax screwed, very solid & squeak free, I just hope the floor never needs to come up again as it won't !

[@edwardplant8742]

Your not throwing all your old nails and off cuts into the floor void? I thought this was a code requirement? 😇

[@paulgilliland2992]

But you leave unsightly and sloppy looking over cutting of adjacent boards . The added 2 xs are far better when done correctly .

[@zedman442]

Screwfix cheaped out. Never be using those screws again. Forgefix have been good to me.

[@Green4Life]

The reason lies in the fact that in order to lower the selling price, the workshop chooses to lower the grade of craftsmanship, standard, raw materials again and again, the appearance of a good look, the inside is like shxt. And the state knows all this but simply doesn't care! Domestic sales and non-ordered overseas sales of goods, the price is pretty less than 50% of similar products, the quality is only less than 20% of qualified products. This is nowadays, the actual situation of China's manufacturing. There is no worst, only worse. But Taiwan's non-order export products are experiencing a grade better than the mainland.

[@stoatystoat174]

reach 🧐around? Also is you hit windows key + full stop (in many places where you can type) and it opens a wee menu of emoji and math symbols and stuff. More of an avoiding manual work tip.

[@adrianmcardle85]

How I lift floorboards: I use a lifting bar, a oscillating multi tool and a impact driver with 5 x 60mm single thread screws.

[@buzzkillington3354]

Ahhh they're making screws out of chineseium now...oh dear

[@garvielloken3929]

Nooicfe!

[@dominicdodd9759]

Not using what a tool is 'designed for' can often solve problems - get creative@

[@101projects2]

Are you going to rename 'Gold members' Orange Members 😂 The bodge was 7 nails and a scrap piece of wood, The proper Job was 3 screws and an off cup of a random bit of timber, a classic example of a bodge taking long and using more materials than doing it properly..

[@davidravenhill300]

kingfisher group value engineering. Some buyer will have saved money by reducing quality.