Hostile Game Design | //SNOWFLAKE TATTOO// Review

[@mkoookm1]

If this game is indeed going for anti-player design then it still looks like it sucks. There's only like 3 things that are actively player hostile, compare that to something like Pathologic where the entire game is hostile to the player. This game's anti-art is the equivalent of doing a play in the wrong language, it's not exactly interesting nor says anything after the first couple seconds.

[@Graeldon]

I agree! There's not enough depth in the mechanics or gameplay variety to be able to add further hostile elements. The game is too simplistic for what it seems that it was trying to achieve

[@tepafray]

The word you're thinking of is "Anti-Game". And I think the biggest problem with several of RAILSLAVES games I've played is that beyond the initial shock value, the effects and designs are actually quite lazy and barebones. As someone who has done game design before, I can flatout tell you I can recognize default programming assets from game makers being thrown in at times. Aside from maybe a few graphical/music assets, most of RS's library could be assembled in an afternoon or two. Especially given most of the engines are literally drag and drop scripters. I'd honestly say don't read too much into their games having a deeper meaning or artistic value, it's more effort than the dev has probably put in, and the vibe I've gotten from what limited stuff I've read from them is they've gamed themselves into thinking they have artistic merit just for breaking rules, rather than breaking rules for any specific reason or so they can plant anything deeper that the rules wouldn't allow. I'm sure you've had the game mentioned a few times to you. But Cruelty Squad is how you break rules with competence, not this.

[@Graeldon]

I'm honestly looking forward to playing Cruelty Squad in the future to see this type of game design done right. Thanks for being so articulate with your thoughts - I appreciate the insight as a game dev

[@billymkj2763]

"either geniuses or insane" With every genius, there is a little madness...

[@MarsRedPlanet1914]

you can feel the damage to Graeldon's sanity after playing this game on the review

[@Graeldon]

I've got a week-long debuff as a result of this game

[@Caitemis]

I definitely understand and appreciate how some games have a unique experience born out of their brutal design and/or difficulty - I’ve been a fan of Project Moon’s games for ages and I have a friend who adores Pathologic. Honestly, I COULD kinda appreciate this dev’s weird design choices from a distance… if the game didn’t force me to close my eyes for most of the review. And I don’t even have epilepsy lmao

[@Graeldon]

Yeah an epilepsy inducing font feels like a bad idea on all fronts

[@trustytrest]

Speaking of Project Moon, this is like is the Yesod realization was what the whole game looked this.

[@NivMizzet89]

I do actually like the 'find the correct shadow formation to access this location' mechanic. Unfortunately everything else around it is horrible, but as a non-timed, optional bonus objective it could've been a fun little puzzle in a different, functional game.

[@SpriteGuard]

This feels like it's nostalgic for the avant garde indie scene of the '00s. I remember discovering a lot of strange, hostile, confusing games, and it was a scene I loved but it's definitely not for everyone. There's a particular feeling of opening a game and not knowing at all what to expect, and of expanding your idea of what a game can be, and it's something I love but it definitely doesn't always land and it's definitely not something I think most people would enjoy. Still, I'm glad stuff like this exists to be discovered.

[@CainXVII]

I agree. And I enjoy watching other people play those games, I don't play them myself.

[@MegaHellstrike]

Aw hell nah, the developer thought he was like Kojima 😭

[@evillecaston]

This game is the epitome of "ask me what it means!". It seems to be made competently, but with intentional contempt for the player.

[@chimitrash2966]

I'm a fan of developers that make "bad" games that they like, I'm a fan of watching other people play them or review them. Not a fan of the games.

[@Graeldon]

I'm all for devs experimenting and making what appeals to them. Just don't try to sell it as the best game ever and then get defensive when people say they don't get it or it's not fun

[@isenokami7810]

Yeah, I totally feel this. Bad games made with heart have a special kind of merit: they suck to play, but clearly the devs had an idea they wanted to try, and seeing that-especially seeing someone else dissect it-makes me want it to work. I also feel this whenever I do play disliked games myself, leading me to enjoy the likes of Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06…and to honestly think Final Fantasy XIII is a good game. I’d highly recommend Tehsnakerer’s stuff, he covers a lot of rough games from a fun perspective. I especially recommend his video on YIIK: that’s already a horrible and contentious RPG that I wish was good, and Tehsnakerer takes a very similar approach to covering it as I would.

[@CainXVII]

WickedWiz has a second channel, WickedWizard, where he searches for those un-played hidden gems. He has found some fantastic (especially horror) games that were clearly developed by a sole dev. They often leave a comment thanking him for the review. It's a lot of fun.

[@pokelily_7799]

With the hostile game design: It reminds me of a game called glittermitten grove. Without going too much into it a lot of the game mechanics are designed to be as frustrating to work with as possible. However that game is actually done well and actually incentivizes people to keep going.

[@trustytrest]

The devs were definitely trying to make a statement, but it's about as coherent as a drunk hobo cussing at you while slumped on the ground. It's also just as graceful and well-thought-out. If nothing else, the game's a perfect example of why indie games aren't always better than AAA titles. The best indie games we all know and love are the diamonds, while there's still a heavy amount of games such as this that aren't worth bothering with..

[@Graeldon]

Absolutely agree. An "Artistic Statement" doesn't mean that it's automatically good. If your artistic statement is a mound of excrement, people aren't going to be impressed, much less want to pay for it. At the end of the day, digging through the muck to find the gems is the purpose of this series, and it shines an interesting light on the state of Steam indie games

[@evillecaston]

My goodness, thank you so much for saying this. The "indie good, AAA bad" crowd has a serious case of selective memory and/or dishonesty. We really need more people covering the trashy side of Steam.

[@Graeldon]

@@evillecaston too true, some people seem to feel that being an "indie game' is a free pass for praise. If you're interested in stats, check the spreadsheet in the description. It's pretty telling that I've played maybe 1 game that could be consider non-indie so far, and only approximately 30% of all games could be considered "good"

[@alexalbuquerquerodriguesal108]

@@Graeldon Honestly, considering that you're picking essentiatly at random (not really, I would only believe the game is random if someone could prove that the naming of the vast majority of Steam games are random) a bunch of indie games and the fairly lax policy of Steam for selling on the plataform, 30% of at very least decent is quite impressive, when I first saw your idea of dumpster diving on Steam I thought you would get absolute unplayable trash by quite the sizable majority.

[@Graeldon]

I actually have a feeling that the true number might be closer to 40%, and we're just in a particularly trash-filled section of the store. Very few serious titles would start the name of their game with punctuation

[@ahorseofcourse7283]

Not gonna lie, I think I'm one of the few people this game was made for. Not to play, of course, but the weirdness and the futility and the inhumanity of the world Rail/ slave has created is compelling in its awfulness. If he could get someone to make the actual "gameplay" part of his games bearable and get an editor to help translate his vision, I really think Rail/ slave could be onto something.

[@Graeldon]

I can see why people would like it, it feels like RSG has an interesting world in their mind they are trying to create. Personally I feel like that vision of the world is never truly conveyed to the player because the game itself doesn't allow for it, due to its presentation

[@ahorseofcourse7283]

@@Graeldon Agreed wholeheartedly! Sometimes a vision has to be slightly compromised in order for it to be understood. RSG wanted the world to feel hostile and incomprehensible and hopeless, and he has, but he's done it in a way that prevents the player from wanting to delve into it. There's two main kinds of bad games: games that are bad because of a lack of vision, and games that are bad due to an overabundance.

[@CATASTEROID934]

Honestly it looks like an amateur game for a home microcomputer iike the Commodore 64, ZX Spectrum or BBC Micro game, those wild west days of utterly bewildering and unexplained games. The first tape I loaded into dad's Speccy was Orange Squash and it was honestly wretched to play, but often amateur games were just like that then- bashed together by people with a vision, motivation, software on tapes their mates copied and a few magazines with code printed on it for readers to copy and tinker with at home.

[@Graeldon]

You're not wrong, I think that was the aesthetic that the devs were going for, and I think they nailed that. It definitely feels like something from another time, another generation... including the game design sensibilities.

[@Solinaru]

"Hostile Game Design" as a term already existed for a while. It was particularly useful in trying to explain the heavy microtransaction games on mobile that would find different ways to apply "pain" to the player so that buying a microtransaction would bring relief. (examples like you get to save 1 object during a failed run, but are shown 4 additional objects to save if you pay 99cents with one of those 4 being a rare item you actually need) //ST// here is more of the "anti-art" genre of game. It shows it's cards early that it shouldn't be taken literally and just to ride the vibe. Anti-art isn't a style of art as it's more a expression similar to dada movement. Games like Space Funeral are also part of this movement as they're made to look ugly and offputting but have something more under the surface. anti-art can be hostile to the player, but it's not going to be malicious like Hostile Game Design.

[@GreiH]

I'm glad I'm not photosensitive. But also the menu visuals remind me of the "puke gun" the US military made. It flashed rapidly changing colored lights which caused vertigo, nausea, and ultimately puking.

[@Graeldon]

That sounds positively horrendous

[@Zer0_Ph34r]

I went to school for game design and had some people in my class that created games with a similar feel to this. For those people, it was due to having a severe limitation on what they could accomplish and being far too overly ambitious. To me, this looks like a game that is attempting to pay homage to 80s era hyper violence and neon future aesthetic. I think this particular aesthetic is a newer interpretation of those kinds of films/games/animations, but it's definitely a budding style of games. Look at Cruelty Squad, Golden Light, and Post Void. Each of those games has a purposefully obtuse UI and grungy hyper-violent looks, and in some cases you could claim that they have Hostile Game Design (which I don't think is well used/known term). In each of these games, it's also obvious that it's meant to be this way. To a small niche of players, this is exactly the kind of thing they like, but that doesn't mean that it's good. This seems to me like an art piece that is meant to be painful, and it's likely exactly what the creator wanted. However, that doesn't mean that something better with the same vision couldn't have been made. This game looks like someone slapping together several interesting mechanics that they don't fully comprehend, but calling it a masterpiece because they created it. In addition, I think that the Souls series has given some poor writers a good excuse for their bad writing. It's not that it's bad, it's that you don't understand the full lore of the game. There's a reason for all the inconsistencies and unused mechanics, you just haven't figured it out yet. I think this is a crap view, but I also think people should be able to make whatever they want. If people don't like it though, you don't get to claim they're just too stupid to get it.

[@trustytrest]

Souls lore was made to be fun little tidbits related to items. "Old Knight Jenkins used this bow to shoot down an apple once, hence the name Apple Bow". That sort of stuff. The community acts like there's meant to be some grand hidden narrative only for the chosen few, but they're the ones writing that fanfic, not the games themselves.

[@woegarden]

scathing. i love this developer's stuff so much, and we all appreciate your honesty in giving the dev credit for the vision, yet not enjoying it much yourself. great vid as always.

[@Graeldon]

Thanks for the kind words! I aim to be fair, but there will always be an element of personal bias that creeps in

[@covereye5731]

I went to a college where we practiced game design and I don't remember hostile design coming up as a topic. We had a user centered approach, so we would always test with players and iterate on their feedback ---Something I'm sure Rail Slave Games doesn't do. RSG makes games just for themselves, as they said, it was a success because they were happy with it. Honestly I respect that, I find making games for myself to be just as hard as I am my own biggest critic.

[@Graeldon]

That's an interesting point - to consider a user centered approach to game design compared to a game dev centered one. As I said in the review, I have respect for RSG making the game they wanted to make. But that doesn't make the game good. Just because a chef intentionally burns their food, it doesn't mean I want to eat it. But, it does allow for some interesting game design ideas to come to the surface

[@Hisnitch]

Weekend two of pointing out that Cruelty Squad will probably get the same rating. Though, that's not fair since Cruelty Squad is actually a well constructed game behind all of the gunk and the almost literally vomiting inducing visuals. I can't wait to see what happens when we get there.

[@Russian_engineer_bmstu]

Wow, this hurts

[@Graeldon]

Playing a couple of hours of it was pretty rough

[@Russian_engineer_bmstu]

​@@Graeldon the "wtf is nppd" is funny lol

[@spongyoshi]

Really liked your approach, trying to understand what it is going for while still staying on your conviction and giving it a fair and just conclusion. Really enjoy your reviews, you can tell you give a fair shot to any project, however how wild, and that you wish for each of them to reach their full potential, really enjoy that

[@Doktario_Mystario]

12:50 that's called "anti-design" there is a 2 hour+ video by Infernal Ramblings that is all about "anti-design". What he talks about is more like troll levels in Super Mario Maker but i think the principal could also be applied to this that being said the term "hostile-design" couls also be a good synonim

[@Graeldon]

I've watched part of that video, and the sense that I got was that anti-design, the type you see in Mario Kaizo or Troll levels, is similar but different to what is on display here. "Hostile design" was inspired by the idea of hostile architecture

[@taisato2091]

​​@@Graeldon IMO Hostile game design sounds better and makes sense both linguistically (The game design is hostile to the player. It's not an anti-game, it still is a game that has a set goal, but it tries to be hostile and it does it without any irony) and also as a parallel to Hostile architecture.

[@ManuelRiccobono]

Basically this is a bad game to play, but a good game to tell about with others. The devs cared more about the meaning of the game in the grand scheme, instead of manking the game enjoyable and satisfying for the players. I personally dont like this way of doing things, but i know some people that could like it

[@Graeldon]

There's an audience for weird and obtuse games, and I'm not part of it. After playing a game like this, I'm always left wondering how much of it was intentional, and how much was accidental

[@dominateeye]

Very much looking forward to your review of Todo Today (not sure how you're going to write it without the superfluous punctuation in the subtitles because frankly I'm not sure how to write it that way myself). I think it's the first game you're going to play that I recognize and enjoyed. I played it on Itch a few years back and left a lengthy, glowing review there, but it's been a while so I'll enjoy having my memory jogged if nothing else. I hope it's easier to play than Rail Slave's library has been!

[@Graeldon]

I've completed that one and got the script ready to go! A surprisingly lovely game, for sure.

[@PeoplecallmeLucifer]

1:40 Wise words Plato

[@flaviasantos2854]

Wise words

[@Theo_the_cat_guy]

I recomended the looker to the other day in case you needed a pallet cleanser and this seems like a good time to cleanse your pallet

[@taisato2091]

The next game will be an amazing pallete cleanser i assure you

[@Graeldon]

I will try and remember to check it out, but it might be a while before I need it! Thankfully the next game was also a palate cleanser in it's own way

[@Mammbo_]

1:43 Wise words and a funny number Plato

[@LexusLFA554]

I love the censor bar on the "god" figure xD

[@50bottlesofpinklemonade]

your editing skills are improving a lot!

[@Graeldon]

Thanks! The channel actually has an editor now, Tai who has matched my style really well! We both worked on the editing for this video =)

[@TheTNTPVP]

Normally saying a game is designed poorly is just a stupid defense, but this is art. The game sucking was absolutely intentional. Doesn't improve anything about it though.

[@Graeldon]

It's interesting how difficult it is to figure out if the poor design is intentional or accidental. I feel like game devs would have an easier time detecting these kinds of things, so I find myself wishing I had that experience. To me, a lot of it boils down to "Why did they choose to do X".

[@dinosaurpolitician3663]

this kind of surreal game design is interesting and all, but it needs actual gameplay to go with it, or it needs to be engaging. Space Funeral is a great example of a game that is intentionally ugly and offputting, but it's also a *playable game* that tells a story. "offputting" is not enough, you have to actually have some intention. Most art games have a clear message, or are trying to be an interesting story, at least. This just feels like someone made something and went, "it's confusing and bad, so it'll sell." Hey, if anyone has good suggestions for offputting weird games that are actually good, lemme know.

[@mauricioalvarezpino1818]

I only know of one game which would fit that description, Cruelty Squad, I didn't play it yet, but from what I've seen and heard, it seems that it's both an assault on the senses and one of the best tactical shooters in recent times.

[@dinosaurpolitician3663]

@@mauricioalvarezpino1818 Cruelty squad is an AMAZING example of this!! I can't believe I forgot about it

[@artman40]

This may be a bad game but at least it's bad in interesting way rather than in bland way. It's a bad game in "What were they thinking" kind of way. And these kinds of bad games are games where you can can learn from. In contrast, Cruelty Squad took unconventional and normally hostile game elements to make an engaging and fun game.

[@catgirl185]

I honestly can’t stop staring at it. And the other one. There is just something about sheer chaos that makes my brain happy!

[@4dragons632]

I dont think the devs did it intentionally. Their replies on the message boards just seem more angry than like a clever commentary. Next time they make something I'm sure it'll be intentionally hostile design, if they're capable of it.

[@kalilak9701]

Thanks for all the hard work you do to bring us such well-executed entertainment! Merry Christmas (or your regional equivalent)! >.

[@SylvesterAshcroft88]

The flashing is definitely causing some eye bleeding, if people play this for too long.

[@Graeldon]

100% it's a bizarre design choice

[@madbrosheo1514]

Well I think we can all agree that that was a game.

[@echo5172]

It reminds me a LOT of cruelty squad, which is one of my favorite games of all time

[@Graeldon]

I guarantee that Cruelty Squad is 10000% better

[@echo5172]

A very fair assessment but i respect what the devs were going for

[@DinoDragon6]

I'm gonna say this, this game's appeal IS the hostile and cryptic design. It's confusing and hard to navigate nature makes it all the more alluring to take the plunge into the void and figure out what it going on. Make no mistake, this game isn't for the average player to experience. This is for those insane enough to go through all of the game's hostility to see what lies beyong, and those curious enough gathering to witness it from afar. It's for those who derive joy from trying to make sense of something beyond comprehension. Taking a peek beyond reality. I know this, because I am one of those people. I don't take the plunge myself usualy, but I'm always pleased to see someone else do it, and share what they found and experienced. And, as someone who has done their fair share of game design, I'm gonna say, I'm pretty sure this games design is intentional. You don't make something this awful on accident.

[@Graeldon]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I agree that it's most likely intentional, and I don't hold anything against games that want to be obscure or cryptic in nature as the process of discovery can be rewarding. That said, in this case I don't think the reward justifies the design, as there is little to no payoff for trying to solve beneath the surface.

[@DinoDragon6]

@@Graeldon I think the reward is feeling dizzy and confused, while digesting the likely unpleasant experience of playing this, while piecing together the strange desing and cryptic lore... which I do understand is not much of a reward for most people. but I'm personally glad that oddities like this exist... and so long as one is not forced to play them, they are harmless... tho it does kinda suck for say... someone who has decided to play every game that managed to get on steam... oh....

[@q306005]

This game is pure genius. I would never touch it or recommend anyone else to, but it's genius.

[@nathanieljones8043]

cruelty squad did the same thing if you remember that game

[@PeoplecallmeLucifer]

this sounds like fear and hunger did meth

[@LicencetoMeme]

Wake up babe, it's day 10 of waiting for At dead of night.

[@AkorBestoff]

Did the Video Start with 3 Memes good Job Taisato, Merry Christmas btw my Internet is still down lol.

[@Graeldon]

Tai did a great job with the intro for this one! I hope your internet is fixed soon, fingers crossed!

[@AkorBestoff]

@@Graeldon Well its the Whole Street not only us, probably back no later then the 27th

[@LicencetoMeme]

Ah yes, Hotline Miami X FNAF World for the ZX Spectrum. Truly one of the game of all times! Anyway, day 8 of waiting for At dead of night.

[@Graeldon]

I don't think this game deserves to be compared to Hotline Miami

[@LicencetoMeme]

​@@Graeldon Fair enough, it looks more akin to the first G.T.A. And that's not a compliment...

[@Groovecharge]

Merry Christmas Graeldon!

[@binderr3]

10:12 watch out graeldon.

[@LicencetoMeme]

13th day of waiting for At dead of night! Lucky or not, here I come!

[@GooTheMighty]

I think unfriendly mechanics can enhance a game overall, but this might be taking it too far. For example: in the older Etrian Odyssey games, there is little to no fast travel. Geometric Poles can warp you a few floors in, and you can enter new zones from their entrance, but floor to floor, you have to walk. So if you are forced to retreat literally one tile from the next geometric pole, too bad. You have no choice but to manually walk through five or more floors of labyrinth, with all those enemy encounters and potential FOE encounters, to get back to where you were. And I think that’s actually important. Some of the newer games added QOL features to make floor-to-floor navigation easier, but the hostile nature of EO’s labyrinths, from the tricky enemies to the trudge of manually walking, was always a feature, not a bug. The challenge of that not only gave the core loop (delve, retreat, repeat) a unique identity I’ve not seen in any other dungeon crawler, it also functions as world building. These labyrinths are poorly understood and unmapped because MOST people who go into them never make it out alive, and if you’re not careful and deliberate about your delves and retreats, you get to experience that fate first hand with a game over. It’s unfriendly, and that makes it iconic. Similarly, the hardest game I have ever played and beaten is Tower of Druaga. The Orange Wizards on the last few floors of titular Tower are 100% the most player hostile, BS enemies I have ever seen in any game, and as a result they are more memorable than many GAMES I’ve played. You could argue that’s bad design, unless the designers intended to make an enemy that no player would ever forget. Anyhow, there must be a name for doing this kind of design on purpose…

[@sourwitch2340]

I think another part I want to point out is "snowflake tattoo". the dev points out accurately that the title projects a difficulty to be understood. but there's a difference between being difficult to understand and being nonsensical - other than a snowflake being used as your interface in-game, and the cold of the place, there's not really any connection I can see between it. if the snowflake is a tattoo, who has it? one of the doll stakes (what were they spellt like?), the protagonist's sister, our enemies, the protagonist? was a tattoo or at least the symbol of the snowflake established in the preceding game? what is the significance of calling it a tattoo? A tattoo, even while depicting ice and cold, isn't. a tattoo is on skin, and skin is warm, so if the snowflake is a tattoo, it shouldn't actually be cold. yet it is. why? what is signified by making the snowflake a tattoo? or is it just trying to tell us there are snowflakes in the game, and the tattoo is meant to make it sound cool? and why are there snowflakes in the game? what do the snowflakes stand for? is the coldness of this place a reflection of the protagonist's inner workings? no, because then the whole ship would have to be a metaphor, and beyond being trippy, I don't think anything sets up a metaphor? so it's just a cold place then? it's a snowflake and it's cold. it is pain and it is frozen, it is burning. Is the snowflake tattoo not actually a tattoo but the thermic freezing over of flesh in the hostile temperatures of the enemy territory? if so, that would be a very cool transposition of the words; the snowflake tattoo being the clumps of ice that facilitate on your skin, leaving you unable to move... literally and metaphorically. yet, the game forces you to stay in motion. you get better sight when still, it doesn't shut you off, it doesn't close you in, it makes you more aware. while moving is necessary to get a use out your bullets, and to find the things you need to win the game, to collect dolls so you don't freeze over. and, anyways, what do metal, collagen, dolls, enamel, [unknown], and plasma have to do with the freezing? and I assume "light gate" means "energetic or laser force field", which begs the important question, why don't you stand by those, letting them heat you like a futuristic, industrial dumpster fire? like, everything in the game is just trying to sell a, I would say, post-apocalyptic hyperfuturistic aesthetic with psychedelic elements of disorientation. and I don't think any of that is reflected in "snowflake tattoo" nor does it extend the meaning of the name which is exactly the thing. yes, the name is cryptic and laden with implied meaning, and I actually do think the significance I construct in this essay of a comment would work nicely. but the game doesn't execute on that, none of the parts that are in theory fascinating about the game build on eachother, it feels like they tried too much, but didn't know what they were really trying to deliver on, what their core concept was, so every single element feels unintentionally disconjointed from the rest: It all feels like it's yelling at you "there's more to this! you just need to look deeper!", and maybe I just haven't given them enough time to discern what they are really saying. but maybe there just isn't any cohesive underpinning theme to the game as a whole, and all the aspects that work, don't, since there is nothing to connect them to the whole.

[@Graeldon]

Love the thought you put into this! My suspicion is simply that the devs wanted to appear ambiguous and to purposefully confuse the player. I think the "snowflake tattoo" might be in reference to snowflakes being unique. The player is unique in that they are somehow able to survive in this location, and they oppose the "Doll-Steaks" whose name implies they are no longer human, and are literally meat. They have lost their identity, whereas the player has not. The player is special. And that's about it. At the end of the day, we can only speculate and I doubt that the dev will ever clarify things

[@q306005]

My thought was that playing the game is like giving someone a snowflake tattoo, meaning it's impossible. Snowflakes are all uniquely and intricately designed, and trying to give someone a tattoo so unique and intricate would be a task that nobody would want to complete. Just like playing this game. Nobody wants to play it.

[@tristemsaris7739]

This and the last game makes me want to sit down and chat with their dev for a few hours , just so I can try and learn a bit about the mind that created... whatever these games are supposed to be

[@Graeldon]

I believe that someone has recorded a dev interview and uploaded it to KZbin! I think it was for one of their earlier games, but it might still be interesting

[@AndyLundell]

I think this game is the video game equivalent of a punk zine. You know the kind. Most zines try their best to use cheap tools to mimic the professionalism of mainstream press. But the PUNK zines intentionally lean into the differences between them and the mainstream. So they do the text in scratchy, hard-to-read handwriting, and print it on a mimeograph machine. Not because they don't have access to better tools, but because they want you to know they're not trying to be professional. They won't even put the staples in straight, because if you complain about that they'll know you're not really one of them.

[@vorips]

see this type of game design really reminds me of those old hardcore MMOs, they will all scream "this game doesn't hold your hand!" but what they mean is that the game won't teach you anything about itself, it'll just throw you into the world and bash you for not understanding its mechanics. Games you could say have in a way this intentional anti player design that is executed really well are from software games, fromsoft will for the most part never hold your hand, you will face difficult opponents time and time and even some basic enemies can kill you if you're not careful, that said fromsoft gives you just the right amounts of tools to have you figure out how to play. At first elden ring made me overwhelmed i started out, got my ass handed to me by the first boss, then left the starting area and died again, BUT it always felt like it was my fault for doing so, not some stupidly hard to read game UI which is being obtuse, it was just me not being good at the game yet. On a quick side note i hate games that have a lot of quickly changing flashing colours, it makes finding stuff so much harder especially for me due to my colourblindness, to be fair though i suspect that i'm not the main demographic that this game is trying to appeal to which is okay, it's their game, their time and money, they can do whatever they want with it.

[@MsMoonDragoon]

after seeing some of their interactions outside of steam, This game dev seems to be what we called back in the day in the darker corners of internet forums (excuse me for being a bit graphic but it is the term used, though translated to english) "Playing violin on ones wrists." meaning they're edgy for the sake of being so with no real meaning or point. they have nothing to actually say whilst pretending that they do and are very important and oh so dark and gritty for it. The type of insufferable nothing-person that things watching gore makes them edgy and cool and they're an artist for shouting nonsense out into the world. They revel in making others uncomfortable and frustraited but are doing so for no reason and arn't actually making any point.

[@Graeldon]

Great explanation. Edgy for the aesthetic, not for any actual reasons

[@hampuslundborg4187]

youknow the game is something different from the rest when it has a cencorship

[@mastergame1311]

1:44 is that the fucking pope number

[@Graeldon]

Tai the Editor managed to slip that one past me 😅

[@Zero_de_Nova]

Its just like Leathel Squat.

[@DirkCipher]

Games need to grant the player some kind of incentive to keep playing. Tough gameplay needs to control well and feel satisfying to progress, and progress needs rewards. Rewards can be in the form of upgrades and such, but for cryptic games like this, progress should lead to answers - or at least more information to develop said answers. From watching this review, the game seems to me to drop you in and expect you to slog through the challenges with very little change in scenery, with the only lore drops being the PC's internal dialogue between that point and going to the shop, which... doesn't grant much in the way of information, either. The only reward for cumbersome gameplay is storytelling obfuscated by intentionally vague lore; if that's what the developers are going for, then sure, but it certainly doesn't incentivise coming back for more to get the most out of what the art has to offer. More than anything, seeing weird text on the screen trying to be meaningful fall short of anything noteworthy is making me want to read House of Leaves to see it done right.

[@yeasstt]

Ow

[@Graeldon]

Gotta keep painkillers on hand for this one

[@Berny23]

This flickering is terrible. Also, a pretty accurate video title.

[@Graeldon]

It's such a bizarre thing to do on purpose. Here's hoping we don't find too many more like that

[@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear]

Thanks for the video :)

[@stalebread7116]

Happy new years🎉 and day 114 of waiting for Celeste

[@suprise2311]

how painful was it to review

[@Graeldon]

I saw flashing lights whenever I closed my eyes for a few hours. I'm just grateful I don't have epilepsy

[@acanadianchicken]

This is actually terrible with the text alone

[@Graeldon]

It blows my mind that someone thought it would be a good idea. Hence why I think they knew it wasn't, but did it anyway

[@Riteliso]

I don't honestly dislike hostile player design within an artistic context, as it's presented here. The issue with THIS game then becomes how sophomoric and mindless some of the art IS. But a game like cruelty squad is a very fun and very terrible time.

[@Highretrogamelord]

So another bad Rail Slave Games game? I wonder if they made an at least decent game.

[@Graeldon]

I've only played 2 of them so far, but looking at their other releases on Steam it's a resounding NO

[@Highretrogamelord]

@@Graeldon Can't wait for your reviews of the Uriel's Chasm games...one day...hopefully.

[@Graeldon]

@Highretrogamelord see you in 500+ years!

[@Highretrogamelord]

@@Graeldon Well, I better become a billionaire so I can be in cryostasis then. 😀

[@666thecreature]

The dev’s ego is fucking gross man.

[@jmc-julian]

You should look at Cruelty Squad

[@LicencetoMeme]

Day 9 of waiting for At dead of night.

[@fily-jpg]

Day 9 of asking to play oneshot

[@Jerburger]

As cringey as it to respond to feedback with "why do you think it's bad? I think it's good!" Seeing "you should just give up" in a review makes me want to throw things.

[@stalebread7116]

Day 111 of waiting for Celeste

[@Graeldon]

I think you missed day 110! Streak broken???

[@stalebread7116]

Nuh uh

[@stalebread7116]

Day 113 of waiting for Celeste

[@Graeldon]

See you next year!

[@stalebread7116]

Day 109 of waiting for Celeste

[@stalebread7116]

Day 108 of waiting for Celeste 🎅

[@n1lknarf]

Art is not subjective. For something to be art it must present either a psychological, physical, intellectual or emotional challenge. If none then it's not art, but entertainment, and that's ok. What's subjective is what the subject considers a challenge, and the level of endurance the subject has to the difficulty of the challenges. It's the reason why some think fromsoft makes masterpieces, but fail to see them as bad ninja gaiden clones. A masterpiece must present all challenges at a high level of difficulty.

[@zarrg5611]

No, Art is unknowable and without form, a challenge is only a particular for of art in itself. Yes, any piece of art might be considered a challenge from a certain perspective, though the artist might not have intended it. To create art to challenge is a fine goal if it is what one seeks, but to assign such a limiting definition to the entirety of art threatens to reduce it to meaningless shock pieces or illustration and didacticism (or some variation of those things). I do agree that Dark Souls etc. are entertainment and not art though, as with the idea of art and entertainment. Though I would give the more charitable phrasing of “applied art”(as opposed to fine art).

[@stalebread7116]

Day 112 of waiting for Celeste

[@stalebread7116]

Day 107 of waiting for Celeste

[@GameTimeWhy]

See you in 257 days.

[@KakiT1]

From the end text about saving women and the whole collecting dolls thing, plus the Mario reference, I got the vibe that the developer watched a yt video about how women are treated in game writing, got salty and lashed out at gamers blindly, forgetting that women also play videogames. It's like Pathalogic! Intentionally making you uncomfortable for the story, except where in that case it's pretentious and interesting to look at, this is pretentious, boring and pathetic. I say that as a very pretentious female writer.

[@LicencetoMeme]

Day 11 of waiting for At dead of night.

[@LicencetoMeme]

Day 12 of waiting for At dead of night.

[@fily-jpg]

Day 10 of asking to play oneshot

[@stalebread7116]

Day 115 of waiting for Celeste

[@stalebread7116]

Day 117 of waiting for Celeste

[@stalebread7116]

Day 116 of waiting for Celeste

[@stalebread7116]

Day 120 of waiting for Celeste

[@Graeldon]

New profile pic, nice!