Grammar's great divide: The Oxford comma - TED-Ed

View full lesson: ed.ted.com/less...
If you read "Bob, a DJ and a clown" on a guest list, are three people coming to the party, or only one? That depends on whether you're for or against the Oxford comma -- perhaps the most hotly contested punctuation mark of all time. When do we use one? Can it really be optional, or is there a universal rule? TED-Ed explores both sides of this comma conundrum.
Lesson by TED-Ed, animation by Zedem Media.

[@ITR]

Bring: * Bob * A DJ * A clown

[@first-last3577]

ITR not any better. a little bit excessive compared to straight forward sentence.

[@JazzPikmin]

You're hired for Oxford

[@rahimmitha7636]

*Harvard: 1 missed call

[@pear6554]

dude... *THAT'S GENIUS*

[@alejrandom6592]

* and a puppy

[@shafey]

In Arabic, we put a conjunction after every separate entity. So, it's like saying "Bring Bob and a DJ and a clown.

[@gootmanboats3864]

أحمد الشافعى That's a great system! That's how it works in programming languages, too.

[@joebazooks]

أحمد الشافعى that's super interesting. it seems like another great way to avoid confusion.

[@justin_grindley]

And here in 'Murica, it's just not natural for that.

[@francelynbinondo1894]

+‫أحمد الشافعى‬‎ Isn't redundant?

[@shafey]

Francelyn Binondo No, not at all. That's primarily because the conjunction that's equivalent to "and" in Arabic is just a single letter; the letter "و". It's easy to pronounce and takes up very little space.

[@geor1361]

I just realized, the video favors the Oxford comma because it placed one at 0:39, writing: "and, or, or nor", instead of: "and, or or nor"

[@s.l.3281]

TedEd was covering the debate between the Oxford's comma usage, not saying that it was up for debate. It's pretty well-accepted that the Oxford comma is grammatically correct, as can be see in the last example.

[@ashleywu8170]

Gabriel Henschen I don’t see the problem. And you just did what you told them not to do.

[@namelastname2724]

@Gabriel Henschen that really only applies to questions. Besides, most people don't mind and you didn't write the original comment

[@Rolando_Cueva]

or or nor looks really funny

[@ledzeppelin1212]

I caught that as well!

[@Mythraen]

"There are so many bigger things to worry about." Don't be silly, the Coronavirus is smaller than a comma.

[@jayeshpandey6395]

Underrated lol!

[@jessxkirby38]

you deserve a like

[@jessxkirby38]

you deserve a like

[@joshushushu]

The fact that this comment is 3 years ago 😱

[@maxis2k]

"And the very idea of a grammatical rule being optional is a bit odd." Welcome to English. Where there's a half dozen exceptions to every rule.

[@chiefdvm1671]

🙃🙃

[@doeliewaaje1761]

If you think English is inconsistent... don't even start learning Dutch.... it's a nightmare... *shivers*

[@chiefdvm1671]

@@doeliewaaje1761 well it would be easy to speak rather than to write, I guess??

[@doeliewaaje1761]

@@chiefdvm1671 well yeah that's true... The way it's written is just really weird...

[@chiefdvm1671]

@@doeliewaaje1761 yeah...it's with every language😢

[@erikliljenwall8185]

I’ve never encountered a situation where the Oxford comma made a sentence less clear, but omitting it always has the potential to cause confusion.

[@nicholus_h2]

are you supposed to bring Bob (who is a DJ) and a clown? that's how the sentence with the Oxford comma treats to many people. the Oxford comma creates as much ambiguity as it resolves.

[@shwarzn-]

@@nicholus_h2 Well to be honest I don't see a confusion here, if I were to encounter a sentence like "Bob, a DJ and a clown" I'd assume to bring Bob, a person who has the ability to be both a Dj and a clown at the same time. With the oxford comma I can understand that its "Bob, a DJ, and a clown" so I bring 1 Bob, 1 DJ, and 1 clown. 3 completely different people

[@ultimateoriginalgod]

@@shwarzn- The list itself is bad though, as you can still argue that you were asked to bring two people: Bob who is a DJ and a yet unknown clown. A better list altogether might be, "a DJ, a clown and Bob," since there is little chance mistaking the meaning there.

[@shwarzn-]

@@ultimateoriginalgod I can't see how anyone can think either of those are wrong tbh. Just do what you want

[@nicholus_h2]

@@shwarzn- If I wanted you to bring two people: 1. Bob (who is a DJ), and 2. a clown, using the Oxford comma, i would write "bring Bob, a DJ, and a clown." And, as you stated, you would incorrectly assume I meant to bring 3 completely different people. So...you assume there's no confusion, but you actually proved its there. The Oxford comma has introduced just as much confusion as it cleared up.

[@TrindyForce]

If my first editor hates oxford commas, then there's a reason he was only the first.

[@astrobookwormsinger]

XD Nicely said!

[@lumina_]

That makes no sense. If you agreed with your first editor on that and stayed with him/her, they'd still be your first editor edit: nvm ignore me lol

[@marcus4403]

@@lumina_ Then...obviously, there wasn't an agreement.

[@masamune9082]

Glass of Milk hey why do I keep finding your comment?

[@kqatsi]

@@lumina_ "only the first" implies that the editor wasn't the last.

[@juliek.2400]

Yeah, I’m a fan of the Oxford comma because it makes the items listed more parallel, hence clear, to me. It did bother one of my professors before and his argument was simply “it used up a space.” I think I’ll continue to use it.

[@RonFinkWriter]

My English teachers in High School opposed it, and even marked it as a mistake and lowered my grades for using it. My teachers in classes at UNLV hated it too, but they didn't mark me down for using it. I use it because it makes my writing easier to read, parse, and understand.

[@cameii77]

+Ron Fink I experienced the opposite. I was taught not to use it, but was marked down for not using by one of my lecturers at uni. I actually find lists of three or more items easier to understand without it. "Bring Bob, the DJ, and a dog" implies for me that Bob is the DJ, and thus I'd be looking for a DJ called Bob!

[@zzz-lo8vg]

@@cameii77 that is because you used the a definite article rather than an indefinite article like "a"

[@judsongaiden9878]

Your teachers should have been fired.

[@serge_siskin]

I see what you did there, and I totally respect that. Yet, the final comma makes my reading stumble a bit, like I find a final distraction on my way to the exit. I, personally, find it very easy to understand that "read, parse and understand" refer to the adverb "easier", but the comma makes it kinda seem "look, it makes my writing easier to read, parse and SEE, IT ALSO MAKES IT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND. DID YOU SEE IT? I MADE IT MORE THAN EVIDENT". As it's been said in the video, the personal preference has a part. I'd get rid of Oxford commas in simple lists, but would leave them in more complex sentences, like the first of this rant.

[@avivastudios2311]

I just don't get what the point is of putting a comma before the word 'and.'

[@michaelpowell3204]

I actually abandoned what I was taught in favor of the Oxford comma. I also put punctuation outside of quotes when it is not part of the quote because i am a programmer and logic demands it.

[@sabret00the]

Punctuation should be outside of the quotes, I vehemently agree with that.

[@jasonbland4300]

"Punctuation outside the Quotes". It is logical when the punctuation is outside the quote if it is not part of the quote, i thought that was normal and should only be a comma or period anyway. "Punctuation inside the Quotes!" - he exclaimed, @sabret00the if it is part of the quote is also normal and would usually be an exclaimation or question mark - that is my understanding.

[@michaelpowell3204]

My understanding is that it's normal in the UK and not in the US. If so,this is a case where I think UK grammarians are correct.

[@lukethegreat101]

You must also be very particular about your semi-colons.

[@durdleduc8520]

I use the oxford comma and put the punctuation outside the quote if it isn’t part of the quote (Ex: Erin said, “My name is Erin.”. Notice the two periods.)

[@StormcloudLive]

For the people from different languages suggesting their ways of doing things to be better, remember in English we have the 2 words of Read and Read when it comes to the action or completion of the action of reading a booking.... the way we tell them apart is that one is pronounced like the word lead whereas the other one is pronounced like the word lead.

[@BallyBoy95]

That ending though. xD

[@nu.wa.n]

+Bruce Wayne God looks very pleased.

[@VocalEdgeTV]

Haha I just commented on how it proves why it’s needed. Very solid humor.

[@thecreativemastermin]

Haha. I know. Such a troll.

[@danzhang1412]

Funny seeing you here, are you learning grammar rules to better converse with arms dealers?

[@BallyBoy95]

@@danzhang1412 Sshhh, you're not wrong, but I don't want everyone to know what I'm up to.

[@matthewluck9077]

I like the serial comma because if you don't use it, the last two items in a list look like they should be one entity or you don't read it right the first time because you don't pause when reading. For example: "Lisa, Jack, Angela, Henry and Grace" looks like the list should be going on because the comma should be what separates the words, not conjunctions. Also, conjunctions can be included in lists like: "Hector and April, Lou and Mary, Geoff and Carol, and Francis and Frankie are married."

[@jjtomecek1623]

I'm in support of it. The ending confused me so much without the Oxford comma lol

[@nanda-re2yp]

AJ Tomecek yet somehow you forgot to put a period.

[@miu__m]

Narasirp who the fuck uses proper sentences on a KZbin comment

[@nanda-re2yp]

Kelly G and somehow you don't get this joke.

[@miu__m]

and somehow you don't get my joke

[@nanda-re2yp]

Kelly G i get it, that's why i make that joke m8.

[@muznerd]

Yes for Oxford Comma!

[@ARP2wefightforyou]

yep, yes, and yeah!

[@Ian-bf4yk]

Muz Nope, no and never.

[@shakesmctremens178]

The Oxford comma has its uses, but the Princeton comma is far more versatile.

[@shemoilasaini9219]

NO !!!!!!

[@likhithchandragiri6245]

Here in India we follow british English and I didn't even know of the existence of the Oxford comma until watching this video. I've always been taught to never put a comma before a conjunction.

[@tejaskala516]

In our school, we were taught to always use the Oxford comma, even if it might be causing a problem Btw I'm an Indian

[@borednsleepy]

SAME

[@lellyparker]

It is more of an American thing. Even the Oxford Style Guide says *not* to use it _unless_ it is necessary to prevent ambiguity.

[@Shadow-Shell]

@@tejaskala516 Was that taught in an Indian school?

[@ellenamontana1352]

Same with me , I'm from Newfoundland Canada and I just heard of it.

[@notreal77]

I think most people keen on coherent communication would opt to use it, and for good measure, too. I love the Oxford comma (call me a commanist) for its function, and I also love it stylistically, since for me, a comma can be like a breath in a sentence, so having a list where you have a breath between each item except the last two would just sound inconsistent and add unwanted emphasis. Like "daisies, sunflowers, tulips, and roses" as opposed to "daisies, sunflowers, tulips and roses". It might entirely depend on the reader, but at least for me, the second version both looks and sounds inconsistent and awkward because there is a visible barrier created by the comma between the first three items but not between the last two. Oxford comma just reads and looks better.

[@serge_siskin]

Hello. For my personal taste, the last comma is unnecessary. If a writer does not trust their audience to separate sunflowers from tulips and daisies, I think there is a bigger problem. As the languages tend to go with the simplification, my prognosis is for the Oxford comma to dissipate in the next 5-10 years or so. Maybe the serial comma will be substituted with "and also", which again, for my taste, solves the problem quite radically.

[@batteredskullsummit9854]

It's jarring to me. Breaks the flow of the sentence. I never use them, never see a need to use them, just write the sentence clearly as you would speak it to someone, then you never need oxford commas

[@wenaolong]

I always instinctively and reflexively use this comma. For example, we have conventions already that point out different clauses in a sentence so that the idea can be grasped easily. If we want to say that ninjas, pirates, and vikings, who included among their number both old and young ages, then we'd simply say "Ninjas, pirates, and vikings, both old and young". If we meant to extend to old and young people who were not those first three entities, then we'd say "Ninjas, pirates, vikings, and others both old and young." If all of them were both old and young then you'd simply alter it like this "Ninjas, pirates, and vikings, all both old and young". You don't have to make a sentence so poorly that it's entire meaning hinges on a comma. If you wanted to specify one of those categories, then you'd say "Ninjas, pirates, and vikings both old and young." It's not that difficult. And in this case you are without reasonable ambiguity. Look further into it and it is even more apparent that the "Sensible Comma" is needed to avoid confusions. What if it had read "Ninjas, pirates and vikings both old and young"? Then clearly you are emphasizing that pirates and vikings had both old and young instances.

[@noodles1291]

All my hs teachers mark me wrong when I use this and I cringe knowing that I’m technically in the right

[@babyfingers9874]

You know, if Bob was really a Dj, the person could’ve just texted like this: ‘Bring Bob (a DJ) and a puppy

[@IVEXUS]

I'm German and wrote a thesis in English. I really envy the English language for that comma. Even without knowing of its existents, the related problem occurred to me many times when writing German texts.

[@jessxkirby38]

It is spelt "existence". I expect you are German and English is not your first language, so I cannot hold you liable for spelling mistakes. Still, you clicked on a video that was about English language rules, so you have to expect someone would correct you.

[@procatist8624]

The award for the most unnecessary comment goes to:@@jessxkirby38

[@ThinWhiteLuke]

It actually surprises me that there is anything about English that is superior compared to German. The way Germans talk, German is a god tier language that does everything better than other languages. Why do Germans say this? Is it true that German is the most comprehensive language? I’ve heard German is more precise, clear, direct, and flexible. The titular saying with regard to the German language is a true one. When people say, “The Germans have a word for that”, this is not an exaggeration; the German language is almost endlessly expandable and its vocabulary is almost infinitely flexible, with new words being able to be created spontaneously just by combining two German nouns together.

[@serge_siskin]

@@procatist8624 You are the first runner-up, congratulations!

[@serge_siskin]

​@@ThinWhiteLuke Whilst you are not wrong, punctuation and lexicology are different parts of any given language. While German is more flexible in terms of making new words from the existing ones, English may be richer in some other things. Also, it is good to keep in mind that German and English belong to different language groups, meaning they are not really comparable from a linguistics point of view. I'm not an accomplished linguist myself, those are just my thoughts as a person who's interested in languages.

[@monstrellsf-w8277]

0:54 it may not be as recommended, but in the uk I’ve never seen anyone not use the Oxford comma.

[@ProfDragonVale]

I'm all for the Oxford Comma

[@abonynge]

My 4th grade writing teacher forced us to use the oxford comma in all cases. She also asked for clarity on situations that would have been more clear without that comma. I learned rather young that it needs to be chosen based on the content of the sentence and not for aesthetic purposes. Sadly I never had a teacher who agreed with me on that point.

[@DLPLonny]

Who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma? I've seen those English dramas too, They're cruel!

[@wolfRAMM]

People, which can hadle the pen...

[@stevene6181]

Vampire Weekend. Fuck ya.

[@vousvxyez]

She did bring a clown, which was herself thinking Bob was a DJ

[@Lycian]

The Oxford comma - Use it. Love it.

[@ARP2wefightforyou]

yep, yes, and yeah!

[@homerj.simpson7562]

Screw it.

[@richardhollis3783]

I generally avoid it but sometimes notice that it would be useful. Grammar is basically just about making your writing easily understandable for your readers. Good grammar is just good manners. :-)

[@Lerkero]

I always use oxford commas when listing things. It sounds more natural in pronunciation. If Bob is a DJ and a clown then I am less likely to pause between those two things. If I were listing "Bob, a DJ, and a clown" I would likely pause while saying each item on the list. To solve the problem I would probably use a dash or reword the sentence. Perhaps "Bob, a clowning DJ"

[@that_pac123]

GO SERIAL COMMA!!!

[@ARP2wefightforyou]

yep, yes, and yeah!

[@ishwar8119]

+that_pac12 I agree.

[@cimmik]

The serial comma, also called oxford comma, looks better, makes more sense, and prevents confusion.

[@ARP2wefightforyou]

cimmik I see what you did there.

[@kerplunc9192]

I'm from ireland and when I heard it I immediately thought that she had to bring three different people and I don't understand the confusion. I can't understand how people would interpret it differently

[@charjl96]

If they don't understand context they might get it wrong, but I don't see how that should be a problem for the rest of us.

[@trevinbeattie4888]

It's the written form which is problematic, not the spoken form. If in the spoken form the pause between each word is the same, you can infer there are three people; but if there were a longer pause between "Bob" and "a DJ and a clown," you would instead infer that the latter pair describe Bob. Now imagine that the presence of a comma adds a slightly longer pause between words than where a comma is absent. This makes you "hear" the latter case when reading.

[@IbeatHalo1onLegendary]

0:07 Let me fix that for you: "Bring Bob, *who is* a DJ and a clown"

[@pieiem]

I really don't get why this is confusing, maybe because I'm not an English native speaker but seriously, if Bob is a dj you could just say "Bring bob the dj and a clown" the other way sounds like there are 3 different people. And the end bit sounds like the dedication is for 4 people which are mum, dad, any rand and God. If you wanna imply your parents are Ayn Rand and God you just don't put the comma after the word parents.

[@Anastas1786]

Maybe that's not how it works in _your_ native language, but it's perfectly valid in English.

[@pieiem]

Anastas1786 yes I know, what I meant to me it isn't confusing as may be for someone else!

[@charjl96]

Seems you get the language better than most English speakers here.... or maybe it's just common sense

[@Justagirlwithasmile]

Or you know: "Bring Bob (a DJ) and a clown." Who would EVER seriously write "Bring Bob, a DJ and a clown," when they weren't referring to separate entities? Nobody writes like that in real life.

[@AdaliaXoxo]

Thank you

[@caveymoley]

The trick is to always consider the use of a comma to be part of a list when ever it is not being used as a clarification pause, or the bridging of correlative statements. (Bracketed sentences work perfectly well as qualifiers, and for delivering superfluous clarifications.)

[@edwardoakry7327]

My high school english teacher taught me to use the oxford comma; then again she also taught me the use of commas, annotations, and semicolons to name a few.

[@jcarlosquebrado6716]

Use the comma! It’s one character space, or less (depending on the font you use),

[@ivanchagasp]

We never use Oxford comma in Portuguese (at least, I never ever heard/saw it). Which is funny, because usually it's taught American English. And I never saw it in English. In Portuguese, we some "rules" to avoid that confusion, even if it requires some repetition. We would say "Bring Bob, that is a DJ, and a clown". When we the verb requires preposition, sometimes we can repeate it, like: "Give the gift to Bob, to a DJ and to a clown".

[@Spoookyboo]

The Oxford comma is widely considered incorrect grammar in the UK. In my own opinion, I think the comma itself is not necessarily where the confusion comes from - it's the way a sentence is built and the key words used instead. If you want to ask someone to bring three separate people, you would say "bring Bob, a DJ and a clown". In this sentence, by using 'a' before 'DJ' and 'clown', you are separating the clauses and implying that Bob, the DJ and the clown are separate people. A more confusing sentence would be: "bring Bob, the DJ and a clown". This could imply that Bob is the DJ or that they are both different people. The clown would be considered a separate person in this sentence either way. If you say: "bring Bob, the DJ and clown", this would heavily imply that Bob is both the DJ and the clown. If you say: "bring Bob, the DJ and the clown", this would again imply that all three are different people. By using 'the' before both the DJ and the clown, you have separated all three clauses again (Bob, DJ and clown). If you want to be super clear that all three people are separate people, I would consider either rearranging the sentence or by using more verbs: "can you pick up Bob, collect the DJ and bring the clown". If you want to explain that Bob is a DJ and a clown as clearly as possible, you you would usually use a hyphen, a semi colon or use brackets, such as: "bring Bob (the DJ and clown)". If you would still like to use a comma in your sentence if explaining that Bob is both a DJ and a clown, a simple noun would do the trick: "bring Bob, he's a DJ and a clown". I think it's just about structuring your sentences to be as clear as possible and to do that you need to consider the words you use in conjunction with your punctuation - they both go hand in hand.

[@YujiUedaFan]

+spookyboo Generally when you have more than two words per separate person/object, you use a semicolon.

[@the_biblioklept2533]

We should also add a punctuation mark for taking an audible rest or pause, as the comma does that, but also effects the meaning of the sentence

[@Maks_Liadetskyi]

Thanks for the video. As English is not my mother tongue, I didn’t know that such problem exists. It never occurred to me that: “Bob, a DJ and a clown” can mean that Bob is both those things. But I wonder, why don’t you use for example a rule, like in Slavic languages: The Meaning “Bob is ...” would be written down like “Bob - a DJ and a clown” because it is a definition. Or If you want to say: “My parents are Ayn Rand and God”, you would be writing “My parents: Ayn Rand and God”

[@ultimateoriginalgod]

You can. It's people's poor grammar skills make the comma a substitute for other punctuation. I personally advocate most widespread use of all variants of colons, dashes and brackets currently underutilized. A good rule of thumb for writing a good list is structure matters more that punctuation, though you still might have to be a mind reader for bad sentences lol.

[@looneytunes4267]

Everyone here is supporting meanwhile I'm used to things without the Oxford comma and the Oxford Comma only makes me confused LOL

[@darknight92414]

in Chinese, " 、(顿号)" is used when expressing separate entities. e.g. " my parents 、Emma and Jack" always means three separate individuals.

[@charjl96]

That's how it is for everyone except Americans. I wonder why... They really are a "special" bunch

[@LukesEnglishPodcast]

Why would you want to bring a clown to a party anyway?

[@Bramble451]

To scare children.

[@mygills3050]

Bramble451 Can I bring children to scare the clowns out?

[@jamkrispop6257]

In Spanish there's no comma before "and", but I was taught in English it has to be used, so I use it.

[@shaangovender]

I'm so happy they included South Africa

[@w5527]

Throughout all of my schooling, I’ve been told not to use the comma but a substitute teacher told us what it was in 3rd grade and I’ve used it since.

[@mssaarahn]

At the beginning when the sentence was 'Please bring Bob, a DJ and a clown', I thought the woman was asked to bring the DJ and a clown for Bob. Anyone else read it like that?

[@zoeosullivan2960]

No, but for the sentence to mean that you would have to ommit the comma, so it would read 'please bring Bob a DJ and a clown'.

[@madhushrutimukherjee]

We were actually taught an ingenious solution at school. If you mean one person, you write "Bring Bob, DJ and clown", where the additional clause highlights different criteria/professions. However, "Bring Bob, 'a' DJ and 'a' clown" indicates that they are three separate entities, and thus require introductory articles. The focus shifts on the article than the comma. It's present in the Wren and Martin.

[@eleonoramendy]

Bring Bob - a DJ and a clown.

[@SteveWhite1104]

The hyphen is far less ambiguous, isn't it? I'm a big em-dash man. They graphically and clearly delineate a necessary digression - most often a clarification or a sidebar - from the crux of a sentence.

[@giacomoferrieri2668]

Yes, @Eleonora Lindblom! And even typographically better: Bring Bob - a DJ and a clown.

[@eleonoramendy]

Yes, @@giacomoferrieri2668; as it has already secretly solved the debate.

[@florrie.6377]

The way you were raised has a clear impact on this: the country you're from, the people who surround you. Personaly though, I think it's crazy how the video said America is one of the bigger users. One time this girl told me she knew I was foreign not because of an accent, but because of my constant (and, in her opinion, kinda unecessary) use of commas.

[@JonatasAdoM]

Yes, my native language is portuguese and we use comas as much as it seems necessary and it always made me confused because my teacher once told me that americans don't use it that often. Now that I noticed it is not weird and that it is truly recognized I'm going to start using more comas in my texts.

[@TheCodesterman]

This is interesting. But I got here looking for the song, "Oxford comma"

[@starkiller578]

cody blablabla fuck yeah vampire weekend

[@dudabaddini6684]

who gives a f about an oxford comma?

[@WiloPolis03]

I've seen those English dramas too

[@jalcome4201]

The contra of "Bob, a DJ (descriptive), and a puppy" can be avoided without any additional info, simply by adhering to conversational standards: Dont bring up information when it's not necessary. You want a list of ppl to bring? List them, and them only. Noone needs to know hes a DJ. And if its important enough, put it in a separate sentence. "Bob and a puppy. Bob will be the DJ."

[@zionj104]

Video: To use, or not to use?. Comments section: *YES*

[@ItisMoody]

I am a strong believer in the Oxford comma and defend its use vehemently, to the point where I don't understand why anyone wouldn't use it!..

[@lowiigibros]

Problems german speaking people dont have.

[@willful759]

nor spanish speaking

[@cladisla]

I know... but German speakers need to deal with the difference between Akkusativ and Dativ, all three genders and so many other things... I love the language though.

[@lowiigibros]

Cristián Ladisla In all honesty that's what I like about German. It's a very complicated language but if you know how to use Akkusativ, Dativ and Genitiv well, it becomes a beautyful language.

[@AndrielleHillis]

Not to mention having 16 different adjective endings and memorizing when to use them.

[@ok_schlatter]

lowiigibros Being a native English speaker, it kills me not to put commas between adjectives.

[@ZHBG-ll7fy]

Me: So what do you like to eat? Friend: Cheese, peanut butter and jelly and bananas. Oxford commas make it easier for me to tell if my friends have normal tastes in food.

[@Bluelaserbeam]

I didn't even know there was a debate on it.

[@josephhfry]

Just ran into a problem ordering doughnuts. The store's website lists a variety of flavors they can drizzle on them,: chocolate, caramel, lemon, raspberry & blackberry. I assumed that it was a "raspberry & blackberry" flavored drizzle, rather than two separate drizzles. A) those flavors are commonly combined, B) they used and ampersand rather than the word 'and', which I often equate to a "+", C) I was raised using the Oxford comma. When it comes to lists, there should be a comma between every unique item on the list.

[@lr7845]

Joseph Fry 100% agree

[@ledzeppelin1212]

3:09 I am also a fan of Ayn Rand and God

[@Manos_P_]

Do do you fight for grammatical rules? Greek: Hold my alphabet. υ, ι, η, ει, οι five letters mean the same thing.

[@tardigrades3184]

I don't even understand why people even use sentences that are structured like the DJ sentence to say that the Oxford comma causes confusion? More problems are caused when you don't use it. The DJ sentence could easily be fixed by saying: Let's get Bob (the DJ) and a puppy. You could also say: Let's get the DJ named Bob and a puppy.

[@TheCinnamondemon]

the dj named bob? lol, thats awkward.

[@jorban3892]

or you could say bring a puppy and bob, the DJ

[@elizabethle3460]

I had no idea that this even existed. I was born in Australia and in primary school we were taught to use the oxford comma in listing things, just like how the video described it.

[@m4rt_]

I was raised in a country that doesn't use English as it's first language, and the language we do use doesn't use Oxford commas, but because I use the internet every day, and thus read a lot of English, I have begun prefering to use Oxford commas. It was probably also because one of my English teachers once mentioned to always put a comma before "and", and I could never remember if that rule was for English, or for my native language, so I did it for both. I personally prefer it because if it's not used, I group it like this: (one), (two and three) or: (one and two), (two and three), ... There are also a variety of other writing rules that I never learned in school, but that I lrarned from seeing other people do it.

[@thedom6209]

The UK does not have a standardised spelling, so I would recommend using the Oxford comma for clarity

[@lisherrera8303]

En Español, usar una coma antes de la conjunción "y" cuenta como error gramatical. Tampoco es correcto iniciar una oración con ésta.

[@charjl96]

Wow, I almost understand that.

[@punkivy9776]

That last example really got me.

[@shannibearstar]

Team Oxford Comma!

[@SwordBlaze]

I always use oxford commas :)

[@kamileishon]

In Sweden I was taught to use the comma between things/people if they were more than two and always put an "and" between the last two. Never a comma directly before the "and" as it was unnecessary. (Then also put a comma between two complete phrases in a sentence etc.)

[@dylanknlee]

For the last part, to avoid confusion couldn't you state the adjective before the noun? Everyone had a great time, young and old Ninjas, Pirates, Vikings, etc... I'm not very good at English....

[@dylanlcreser]

I was brought up not to use it, but then I came to my senses, started using it, and convinced my whole family to start using it.

[@idlingdove]

Ode to the power of the comma (excerpt from 'The New York Times Manual Of Style and Usage' under the entry 'comma'):The absence of commas in 'His brother Alex was best man' means that the bridegroom Alex has more than one brother. If there is only one brother, 'Alex' should be surrounded by commas. Thus a monogamous society must be well supplied with commas: 'Her husband, Leslie, was absent.'

[@Hjerta92]

We don't use it in Norwegian, so I always forget it while writing English. Nice to know I can ignore it with a clear conscience.

[@SabrinaChach]

Same here....(but I am German)

[@gurudhanam139]

Hjerta92,y

[@serge_siskin]

As a person for whom English is not their mother tongue, the Oxford comma rule seems quite confusing. For the lists, we use "and" only, without a comma before the final element of the list (hence, no Oxford comma). To introduce the quality of an object we've mentioned before, we use dashes. It's look like "Bring Bob - a DJ and a puppy" if Bob is both; and "Bring Bob, a DJ and a puppy" if those are three separate things. I guess, it'll remain the eternal struggle, just like the imperial system of units.

[@dr.casebolt]

American Psychological Association Publication Manual (followed by many publications in the social and medical sciences) also requires the Oxford comma. In scientific writing clarity is more important than saving a tiny amount of space on the line.

[@Steinklein]

You forgot one point: The comma basically represents an unspoken and/or/nor, thus a comma and a conjunction should be mutually exclusive.

[@imagomonkei]

I doubt the casual reader sees it that way. For example, I doubt you read "and/or/nor" into the comma in this sentence. Granted and/or/nor commas do have multiple uses and/or/nor this can be confusing since most other punctuation marks only have one primary use. Commas actually serve to indicate pause. In the above sentence, if I wrote it as, "Granted commas do have multiple uses," you might at first think "granted" was an adjective describing commas, not a separate idea. The comma could possibly be replaced with "but," but this produces a lengthy, exhausting sentence when read aloud. The comma allows the reader to take a break, collect his thoughts, and launch into the main idea of the sentence from a stronger position. It is clear to everyone where the sentence begins. Now I realize you're only referring to commas in lists, but they function pretty well the same. Obviously, if I removed the comma in my previous sentence, it would be grammatically incorrect. We are taught to place a comma between two separate but connected ideas when they have different subjects. The comma works in tandem with the conjunction "but"; maintaining that commas can imply conjunctions fails in this case because the comma is necessary to indicate a longer pause. there are some languages like mandarin chinese that at least historically didnt make use of punctuation but they have since adopted it because of how useful it is in english however i dont think that mandarin employs the oxford comma but as you can see in this paragraph more punctuation is a good thing i suppose if you werent raised on the oxford comma then you could do fine without it but try extrapolating that to other forms of punctuation and see how well you do those of us who were raised on that comma have a hard time seeing printed writing without it although it isnt quite as difficult as reading this paragraph must be because at least it is more common but it still looks incorrect to us I'm not trying to be snarky or anything; I just wanted to illustrate why your statement doesn't tell the whole story. It isn't untrue, but it only really applies if you were taught not to use the Oxford comma in the first place.

[@PLuMUK54]

I had not heard of the Oxford Comma until recently. I really should have paid more attention in English lessons, but I really did not like the teachers. I was surprised that something I had always used was a source of contention. To me it seems logical to use it, and I have always done so. I've no idea if my English teachers criticised my use of the Oxford Comma, they criticised me so much I stopped listening! It is ironic that I became a History teacher, and that my colleagues in the English department considered me to be an above average writer, due I suppose to the amount of reading that I do.

[@yoavshati]

I think it should be "Bob (a DJ and a clown)" for the case Bob is a DJ and a clown, and "Bob and a DJ and a clown" for the case Bob isn't a DJ nor a clown. commas are useless in lists, they only cause confusion...

[@victoria.nguyen]

Ikr! I totally agree.

[@kamileishon]

Yes, or: Bob; a Dj and a clown.

[@jimmyhaotran123]

What about skipping the "a" articles and the "and", Bob, DJ, Clown.

[@briannabushman7677]

I use the Oxford comma because I think typically it solves more problems than it creates. If I were using the list in the video I would write “Bob, a DJ, and a clown” if I meant 3 separate people and “Bob (a DJ) and a clown” if I meant 2. If Bob is both a DJ and a clown I’d say “Bob, who is a DJ and a clown”. If the comma itself (or lack thereof) could still be ambiguous I would put more context for the sake of clarity. I’m very much pro-Oxford comma though.

[@saltyman7888]

{"BOB"; "DJ"; "PUPPY"};

[@Ebolson1019]

I've always been told it was needed. Never thought of ditching it

[@はなびがく花火学]

In the E.R.B.s there was a question that stated "find the punctuation mistake or fill in No Error." And there was no errors.. But there was also an Oxford comma and I thought "How in the world are we supposed to know whether they consider it a mistake or not?"

[@t.r.everstone7]

We use commas before any extra clauses with additional information, you see (I just did, in fact). We do so whether there is a conjunction starting the additional clause or not, so I've never understood why there is even a debate. When we are describing someone in detail (not making a list) we often say something like, "She looked through her smudged, cracked, dented sunglasses." Taking away the final comma would just be ridiculous: "...smudged, cracked dented glasses." The serial comma serves the same function as that comma in my example. So I can't justify not using it. When one does not use the serial comma and then accidental confusion is caused, the solution is to use parentheses to specify. But isn't that far more work than simply using the serial comma?! Why would we do more work? And in the rare cases where a serial comma might cause confusion (the video's given example seems rather flimsy), we would just use parentheses for clarification: "Bring Bob (a DJ) and a clown." But that happens so rarely, that it is hardly a reason to stop using serial commas.

[@RichardASalisbury1]

Strunk and White's ["Strunk's and White's" if you're really a purist] "Elements of Style" says to always use the Oxford comma, and I always do. It avoids ambiguity. This small book tells about everything you need to know to be a competent writer. (And if anyone objects to "always" between "to" and "use," heed Winston Churchill, who said (nearly an exact quote:) "This is nonsense up with which I will not put."

[@roydadancegod]

That part at the end: "my parents, Aryn Rand and god" was absolutely priceless.

[@Gameknight2169]

Oxford Comma: “We invited the strippers, JFK, and Stalin.” Lack of Oxford Comma: “We invited the strippers, JFK and Stalin.”

[@antwainclarke3406]

I was taught to never use the Oxford comma and if you want to place a fragment in parenthesis you have more options than just a comma to avoid the obvious confusion- such as a dash or brackets.

[@AHybrten]

I use the semi-colon. If Bob is a DJ and a clown I'd phrase it like this "Bring Bob; a DJ and a clown" However this may not be the correct use of the semi-colon, I'm not too sure.

[@wolfRAMM]

Probably not correct, but they better adopt it.

[@jdferreira]

Or you could use parenthesis, dashes or a colon... "Bring Bob (a DJ and a clown)" "Bring Bob -- a DJ and a clown" "Bring Bob: a DJ and a clown"

[@Goabnb94]

The use of a semi-colon is difficult to explain; its like when two sentences don't feel right, like the sentence should run on, but a comma doesn't link them properly.

[@oneofsilverblood]

A semi-colon is used to link two full sentences that are closely related. In this case, if you can't replace the semicolon with a period, you are using it incorrectly. Semicolons are also used in lists containing sub-lists that have commas. e.g. The students picked red, blue or orange shirts; green, red, or purple shorts; and white, gold, or rainbow socks.

[@wolfRAMM]

Akise Aru right, it's allready being used as a divider in a list, and people just have to embrace its formalism

[@ryanu3708]

My English teachers in the United States in the 1960’s and 1970’s taught us to use the comma. I never knew it was optional until 2024.

[@Oliverius1702]

Makes me think of putting a comma before ''that''. It's not grammarly correct, and it seen as unnecessary; but it can work in times when you're dealing with lengthy sentences. Then, by adding a comma, it can create a better flow and serve as an extra detail almost.

[@hahanamegobrrr6667]

solution : change the name to "the american comma" and everyone will use it

[@roxlovesfearless]

oil comma

[@sum124get2]

"Make the American comma great again"

[@张桓瑜]

"Harvard Comma"

[@sgnt_karl5662]

No, you guys stole our language. Henceforth, we must keep everything that has to do with English.

[@jhonnybravo2243]

This is why I just use brackets for description (parentheses)

[@egsantos]

Little things can make a big difference. Amen to this!

[@jacool2565]

In Spanish, in the puppy example I'd use a semicolon there: Bob, a DJ; and a puppy (Bob, un DJ; y un cachorro), since that's the main use of the semicolon in my language: to clarify lists.

[@dragonwings11]

This video got recommended after watching Oxford Comma by Vampire Weekend 😂 That said, always use an Oxford comma 👍

[@antwainclarke3406]

Still not using Oxford comma.

[@chitlinsfooyung5959]

Dropping the oxford comma is a pet peeve of mine.

[@stephenmonash821]

In short compound sentences the use of a comma is not necessary. However, it can assist ambiguity in longer compound sentences. For example; Jane played guitar and piano. (not needed in this simple sentence). In addition, Jane played guitar and I played piano . (not needed again as this compound sentence is still short. However; Jane played guitar, and I played piano really well. (Is it both of them who played well). By using a comma, you give the reader pause to make the distinction.

[@ElsaBalderrama]

I want to tank my parents: Ayn Rand and God

[@Dragonite43]

Grammar is suppose to help make language clearer. If the Oxford comma or lack of makes a sentence confusing, then rewrite the sentence to avoid both. For example, for the DJ, Bob, and the Dog. I would just break it up into three bullet points or have them numbered. Can you get: 1. A DJ. 2. Bob. 3. A Puppy. Or, if you want them all in one sentence, then maybe write it as "Let's get (1) Bob, (2) the DJ, and (3) a puppy. You can remove the comma in this case and it will still work. Point is, while my method isn't the best, it is harder for the person on the other end to not understand what you are saying.