Grand Design's Frame Failure Ruined Everything! We Are Done With Fulltime RV Living!

In today's video, we discuss what's next for Paving New Paths. After asking local shops for help with our frame problems, we received a lot of messages from people claiming they wanted to help. Watch to find out why we felt some of these people were scammers looking for a payday. That brought us to our next step of contacting our insurance to inquire about filing an insurance claim. While that went well at first, filing an insurance claim is no longer an option for us. We feel as if we have exhausted all of our options at this point, and we are no closer to deciding on what's next for us than we were when we discovered our frame failure. As we go through our options on what comes next, we want to hear from you on what you'd do if you were in our position!
#granddesignmomentum #granddesignrv #lippert
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[@Bmichaels679]

We are skipping our local RV show this year. The high price and low quality with poor warranty in the industry is horrible right now. Thanks to people like you, things will have to change.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We would be skipping it, too! Or going just to wear our shirts! Ha! We pray positive change is coming soon!

[@robertlane6394]

My wife and I were looking at a grand design toy hauler. We have been camping for 20 years and wanted to go full time. Thank god I came across your videos about frame flex . We had put a 5000.00 deposit on one. We got our deposit back after a small fight about getting it back. We appreciate your help in showing us what kind of company grand design is. We don’t want to deal with a company that doesn’t support their product or customers. Thank you again

[@stalehunter]

look at Brinkley RV

[@Myself-u5d]

@@stalehunteralso on a lippert frame

[@dennisminnick6677]

I am 75 years old. I own a 06 Hitchhiker 36 foot. We enjoy getting out of our beautiful but cold north Idaho. I stopped dragging that beast back and forth every year and leave it in Arizona on a nice rented lot. There were many times we could not leave Idaho early enough to avoid traveling hundreds of miles on ice and snow. If you guys love the lake, park it on your lot and give it a try. You can always sell it if it doesn’t work out for you. Many blessings! And thank you 😊

[@stanfordbanks3399]

Smart move we also walked away from Grand Design and going with Brinkley our conversation start with Fram

[@Beamaese]

I wish you luck but 99% of RV companies are using the same frame. Brinkley apparently uses a slightly different frame design although still made by Lippert

[@juliushalmos3531]

I’m proud of you guys for not “not scamming the insurance company“

[@LuisRamos-jw7zr]

They screwed themselves by not pointing out to the insurance company the incident where they crunched the truck and trailer causing damage to the fifth wheel. I just finished watching this accident video from two years ago.

[@kimberly5116]

​@@LuisRamos-jw7zrwhat's the title of the video?

[@LuisRamos-jw7zr]

@@kimberly5116 kzbin.info/www/bejne/aou9e5V3q6eIg8ksi=vedgloYfYqo1XVhx These guys need to go back to the insurance company with this video and have their claim reevaluated in light of this video.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks!

[@mattneil1449]

Ya instead of some giant soulless corporate company they git screwed. Bravo?

[@boondockingprospectors1490]

I was looking to buy a Grand Design, was, being the key word. I will never ever buy from a company that can't be trusted to help fix a problem with their product. I hope you don't stop your dream life. Thank you for the heads up,

[@TheMinnow101]

You'll want to stay away from all Thor and Forest River products as well.

[@PavingNewPaths]

You're welcome! Good luck with your search!

[@dbloria1]

Thank You for the advice on the Scammers, Grand Design, Tom, and the insurance companies. I am sorry you have this issue with your RV, and an issue with Tom but I am so glad to see you acting honestly, respectfully, and moving forward!

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! We appreciate it!

[@worddunlap]

I think both Lipper and Grand Design are culpable. It was designed and manufactured to fail. Who wants to bet that less than $300 in steel and labor would have prevented these cascading failures? It's not frame flex as much as design and manufacturing failure.

[@CruizinWithTheCarsons]

No doubt about it. If more research and testing would've been put into it they would have clearly known to add more gussets, more welds and reinforcement at the proper places. I fully agree, Lippert and Grand Design should be held accountable. It's just a matter of time before a massive class action lawsuit comes into play, or even worse, someone experiences catastrophic failure causing serious harm or death, God forbid.

[@kevink4914]

It’s more in the thousands to make them not break. $300 doesn’t even cover labor costs.

[@jeff67mustang]

​@@kevink4914...I believe he's referring to $300 in the manufacturing cost at tim of being built......was his point!

[@oldbird4210]

I totally agree.

[@roncraig4387]

Consider maybe trading it in with a large Grand Design dealer?

[@Super_Duty_Limited]

If you lived or your home base was near me in Dirty Jersey i would repair it for free just the cost of the materials...Being a Welder Fabricator for over 35 years ...I have worked on many of frames of all sorts ....Get a well named welding Company and have them repair it and then sell it ....Then go purchase a Brinkley and im sure you wont regret 😢 it....!!! You 2 are one of the best channels on youtube and i cant believe that Tom at Grand Design is doing this to you and we WILL NEVER EVEN ENTERTAIN A GRAND POS DESIGN.....Ed from Dirty Jersey

[@cr2884]

Brinkley is what my husband was also suggesting.

[@stogiedude1]

The owners of Brinkley also started G.D. and Alliance. I wouldn't expect any greater expectations from Brinkley. Alliance is relatively new and getting bombarded about manufacturing quality. It's sad to say in short order people will be bombarding Brinkley. It's sad when all any of us want is the freedom to travel without white knuckling down the highway.

[@mnsignr]

Newmar makes a great unit; IWS Chuck (??) make their own frames and bodies

[@garym776]

Brinkley is just another pig with lipstick

[@billosborn9600]

@@tomhorn2937 built to a different design and spec. The issue here is that GD did not properly engineer their frames for the forces applied to them.

[@OxChuck69]

If it were me, I wouldn't let this unit dictate my life. If I still wanted to travel full time I would figure out the best approach and move forward. Get it fixed, sell it and buy a different brand, etc.. But I wouldn't let Grand Design and their shady business model decide the way my family and I live our lives. When it comes down to it, only you can control you. You guys are good people and will make the best decision for your family. Love your videos!

[@JameyT011]

A happy Northwoods owner here. We are on our second one we were so impressed with the first one. When you were describing how 5th wheels should be built, you described almost the entire Northwoods and Outdoors RV line. They have talked about their "in house" built frames for years in their company videos. Roofs too. But people want the fluff and glitter instead of quality.

[@AlanSanderson-u4t]

I have a 2007 Desert Fox toy hauler. It had flex in the gooseneck. I took it to the factory and they reinforced the opening around the closet slide. They also replaced the pin box with an air ride pin box. This was done at no cost to me except for the travel across Oregon. Northwood makes Nash, Desert Fox, and Arctic Fox.

[@frankwilkinsii8977]

I have a 2017 23D. Quality is very good compared to those brands coming out of Indiana.

[@angie-xy5sf]

Artic Fox. way to go. they make own frames.

[@lizcort5047]

We love you two. Your honesty, your moral compass….. stand tall and steadfast, you’ve started a movement and you are the voice of that movement. No matter the outcome, you should be proud of yourselves.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We love you all, too! Thank you for your kind words and support! It means a lot to us!

[@RVwithRV]

We wanted to bless you all with a little something to help your family out during this difficult time. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you so much! We truly appreciate this!

[@patrickmichael8655]

Ah man that sucks! Sorry guys y’all are my favorite RV tubers. I’ll be there to support whatever you do next! 🫡

[@Michael.of.Barrett]

At the end of the day, only you can protect your honor. It's cool to see people that don't lower their personal values. Did you report this to NHTSA?

[@headdown1]

Oh man I feel bad for you two. After leaving my 38 ft 5th wheel in Arizona due to frame issues, I built my own cargo trailer to RV conversion. The possibilities are endless if you are handy, and I know you are. I haven't had anything break in two years, and the peace of mind is so nice. Lots of solar power, home refrigerator, compost toilet, and a 100 gallon fresh water tank in the bed of the Ram. On demand water heater. You can build a much nicer custom RV than you can buy, at a fraction of the cost.

[@terryhuston9011]

So sorry to hear this nightmare of a situation is happening to you guys. Very disappointed with Grand Design. My wife and I have been looking for an Rv and heard good things about GD. Now all we’re hearing is frames breaking and their plumbing leaking and destroying everything. I will not even consider one now. I wonder if being owned by Winnibego is when 28:22 they went downhill

[@bigtom3422]

I am glad I stumbled upon this video, I have been looking at RV's especially Grand Design.. I'm so glad I seen this video before I purchase otherwise I could have owned a Grand Disappointment

[@PavingNewPaths]

We are so glad you saw it, too!

[@gloriarutman8516]

Its heartening to know that there are honest people like you out there. There will be a lawsuit. Get together with others who have these issues.

[@larry9]

I would sell it as is, If you do have it fixed and it breaks again or in a different spot , then nothing has changed, Second Option- to Purchase property and place it on it has your retirement or vacation home. . Thanks. For sharing , hoping. This dark period in your journey changes for your family shortly.

[@gcslade]

I'm heading to our local RV show in a few hours. I will be sure to stop by the GD Reps and ask for "Tom". I will ask about how they're addressing " Frame Failure / Flex" so I can have the showroom to myself. Seriously, I too have had the dreaded Frame Flex issue on my Montana HC 5th wheel and it is the shortest and lightest model they offer ( < 35' and < 12,000 lbs). It's not just GD and the big heavy and long 5th wheels, frames are failing across the board and in many sizes and models. Yes, the heavier and longer trailers have a higher failure due to physics, but overall, trailer frames are not where they need to be as a whole. I have fought this same battle and I'm so glad there are RV owners like you that call it like it is and don't back down to big corp. or insurance scam tactics. Total Respect! Thank you! All the best.

[@davidmcgee2126]

Keystone has been pretty good about repairing, they used to do even when not still under warranty, but the whole warranty process has changed and now their first response is to deny and ask for more pictures. If you are under warranty you should have no problem getting fixed. When is another thing depending on where you are located If not under warranty it will probably be out of pocket. $6-8k

[@daviddidier7163]

Can you provide more details of your experience with Keystone@@davidmcgee2126 ? I have a vested interest as a Cougar 29RLS owner (no frame issues to date).

[@BearDownCats82]

How did it go? I'm curious 😂

[@gcslade]

@@BearDownCats82 If you're talking about the RV show last March, It was very interesting. The show was crowded, but not as much at the local dealer selling Grand Design. There was a beautiful Solitude 5th wheel there that was decently priced (relative to industry mad pricing). The one GD rep visiting the show walked away as soon as I asked him about Frame issues; he just turned around walked out the trailer and never said a word. I suspect he did a lot of walking away and hiding in the bathroom during the show. I was in a Keystone Fusion toy hauler and heard people asking reps about Frame Flex and the Rep admitted it is an industry issue and was being addressed in their current and new designs - at least they were willing to talk about it. I have no doubt the word is out about frames issues and it is impacting GD and entire industry.

[@awptech3248]

As a former rv tech I have been saying these frames are poorly engineered and manufactured for years. These rv manufactures need to be held accountable. I cannot agree more these things are getting too large and heavy. Good luck and hopefully you can find a solution to your issue you are not alone.

[@ddcornell1019]

I’ve always been taught the customer is right. Especially when the cost of these rigs are so high. If a company boasts how good their products are, they need to stand behind their claims.

[@betterwithrum]

Might build my own RV next

[@skeim5620]

I was told that the alliance valor has a more beefed up frame compared to the grand design momentum

[@JayNagel]

This is the time for a class action lawsuit against grand design They bought the frames, they used the frames, and the rv is called grand design. Check out rv wingman he has a lemon lawyer and your rv has puckered.

[@betterwithrum]

@@JayNagel California has some pretty strong RV lemon law rules on the books. Someone with this issue in California needs to kick off the class action

[@rtater1]

As several others have already mentioned, your honesty and integrity are refreshing, and also inspiring given what we are bombarded with daily. However, I wanted to echo what some others are saying trying to encourage you to consider being more persistent. I respect where you guys are at in the decision process, but because you asked your viewers to share “what we would do”, I wanted to add another perspective. An insurance policy is nothing more than a contract between you and the insurance company. You paid your premiums, meaning the insurance company has some obligations. So, you are, at the very least, entitled to push back and strongly encourage the insurance company to actually investigate and force them to prove that the issue is not covered (due to manufacturer defect) under the policy/contract. It seems incredible that they believe they are able to do that just from watching your video. As far as I can tell from your videos, no one knows what has caused the issue yet. The insurance company should be defending their position that it is not covered. That seems very tough to do remotely from a video. You will follow your compass, but I don’t feel it is dishonest at all to say “I don’t know what caused this, but it seems it could be covered under the policy. Let’s investigate to find out whether or not it is.” An accident isn’t limited to an actual collision. Whatever you decide, I hope you guys are able to continue posting content. Except for this chapter, we’ve enjoyed it.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you so much for your generosity and support! We really appreciate it! Thank you also for offering your perspective on how you would handle this! You are right, we aren't experts and this deserves to be looked at by a professional in frames/frame repair. Our hang up is, since the insurance has said that if we open it up and they deem it not covered by them, we are then on the hook for the cost of breaking it down to inspect the damage. If no one is interested in purchasing it "as is", that may be the route we have to take and a conversation we will have to have with the insurance company. We are definitely going to continue posting content, so the channel isn't going anywhere! Trust us, we haven't enjoyed this chapter much, but thankfully, it has led Kevin to a job he truly enjoys and has allowed us to spend an extended period of time with close friends and family! Blessings to you!

[@jonranderson7682]

Kevin & Alicia I'm just thinking of you and the family.. Don't stop paving.. new paths.. I'll be watching.. God bless.!

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you so much! We appreciate it!

[@annettemills3840]

Thank you for your honesty and showing us that you are people with true integrity. We have been watching you all from almost the beginning of your you tube channel start up. We aren’t full timers. But we are planning to move around a year at a time. That’s how we have figured we could afford to see our great country. Plus we will have a lot of time to explore where we will be. We are in the process of leasing land for a year at a time. I don’t know how it will work yet. We are doing research now. Thank you for your channel. I hope you will continue your channel. We have been praying for your family.

[@williamfreeling6546]

I talked to a Brinkley rep about the problem at the Quartzsite show. He said that they not only fixed their products under warranty but incorporated the "field fixes" into their frames moving forward. I don't know if that is true, but if it is, what wonderfully logical customer focused thing to do!

[@molynn5244]

Brinkley does seem to listen to their customers and address issues. Did you see how they addressed the break recall? That was on Lippert and probably impacted more manufacturers than Brinkley. But Brinkley is the only company I heard addressing it publicly and solving the issue in a way that was actually convenient for their customers. Bonus points to Brinkley on that!

[@krisbeaver2901]

Got three friends who are long term rv professionals, all of them have high opinions of Brinkley. One of them has done the field fix for Brinkley, so they are standing behind their product.

[@pennee365]

It’s been my understanding that Brinkley from their beginning ordered stronger frames from Lippert. The owners left Grand Design to start Brinkley.

[@BrianAz]

THIS story, and many others who have had the same problem with Grand Design, has caused me to NOT choose anything made by Grand Design!!!!! You guys are putting out the same information that the other Grand Design customers have complained about so this is the same old news, but very valuable. This just helps solidify my choice to pass on this company.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We think that's a smart decision for the time being! Good luck in your search!

[@andrewneven6816]

Good job at spotting the scammers and exposing them.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks!

[@jeffbarnes5256]

I attended the Baltimore RV show this past weekend and spoke with an engineer and rep. from Brinkley. When the topic of frame flex came up, the engineer explained what they do to the Lippert chassis. GUSSETING corners, reinforcing frame and manufacturing in a completely different way. They did say most of the frame flex occurs after the wall attachment to the outriggers become loose and the frame looses its structural integrity. They also install outriggers properly so wall issues are minimal. It was nice talking face to face with an engineer who understands the issue and adapts. But fact is, most rvs are for infrequent use. It takes a Brinkley to think outside the box and protect their product by doing what s right and reinforcing the frame. Good luck guys, I feel your pain. Im saving my coins to buy a Brinkley!

[@PavingNewPaths]

Folks, you want to know why GD and other manufacturers are running from you when you bring up frame flex/failure at RV shows? Because of this exact comment! If you aren't confident in your build, you deflect, talk in circles, and avoid the questions at all costs. When you have a rig that is built with integrity and the customers' safety in mind, you can confidently answer their questions and explain what sets you apart from the industry standard. Thank you for sharing your interaction with Brinkley!

[@MudmanMedia]

We were looking at Brinkley yesterday. Looks like a company with a lot of integrity and quality builds. So, just to confirm Brinkley are taking the frames from Lippert and reinforcing them?

[@attwasmi]

Well Said!!!! On every point! We have to have confidence in what lies ahead. Safety first. IF the Industry would get the "Disposable" out of their head, and address the product like the auto industry safety standards that have been put in place- RV's would thrive. I can't wait for the first RV show to come when a Manufacturer brings the FRAME in along with the Finished unit! Wouldn't it be reassuring to see the frame and the upper structure with the gussets welded in place before anything else was put on! Yes the buyers would say- WOW that is built strong and there would be a line. I'm not saying all the little things might still have to be addressed, but knowing the $16k-$25k issues were mostly taken care of on the front side!! Thank you Kevin and Alecia!!!

[@andiamo302]

Please 🙏 don't give up on traveling. We enjoy your channel. I work in a dealership and If this was a automotive problem there would be a recall over night. If not there would be a class action lawsuit. Now what I would do being the way I am. I would bring the camper to the RV show . Putting a sign on it saying that this is what a RV lemon 🍋 looks like.

[@petercriscuolo8383]

Great video series. This has had me re-read my insurance policy and I plan to contact a broker to look into whether I should look into other insurance companies for our toy hauler especially now while it doesn't have any problems. Also your videos reinforce the importance not only getting an independent RV inspection but also DEEP research into the manufacturer.

[@brucewallace3860]

Agreed. This scenario has also made me reassured that not buying a used rig (as these folks did) comes with additional responsibility for proving it was manufactured improperly. Being the original owner gives me knowledge of what the rig has been through.

[@leonardharview4577]

Although I agree with having a certified inspector involved, whether buying new or used, I don’t believe a frame flex or frame damage issue can be properly performed without such costing a boatload due to the technical expertise and labor involved to perform such an inspection.

[@jrodtinn798]

I took a tour of keystone Montanas. Seeing first hand how they only welded on one side of the frame instead of welding it all the way around. I can see why they have so many issues with frame flex. It’s sad how much we pay for these for them to be built of such low quality

[@PavingNewPaths]

We agree! Do better RV industry!

[@jimaws]

Thanks!

[@PavingNewPaths]

You're too kind! Thank you for your generosity and support! It means the world to us!

[@striper4401]

You guys are spot on. We went to the rv show this weekend and the grand design booth was very slow. Not many people looking at them. Good luck and never give up

[@dsuv59rt21]

My wife and I as well went to a show this weekend in Massachusetts and same thing , GD isle was slow. Very impressed with the jayco fith wheels....

[@robertviering6785]

I hope and pray that you guy’s get the answers you need to keep going! And the RV community joins you guy’s in the battle against the company and the way they disregard the safety of families traveling across the country!

[@greg9323]

Sorry for all of the problems you guys are having. We have a Northwood Arctic Fox and never had a problem related to the design or workmanship of our fifth wheel. The fifth wheel is heavy but love it. I hope everything works out for you guys.

[@Liimpy]

Amen, also a northwoods owner and couldn't be happier after 8 years of ownership.. zero problems

[@ScottMayberry-zl1ys]

Bless you all for doing the right thing! You will prevail as truth will come out. I have a Riverstone and knock on wood yet to have anything major yet. You may have noticed, but the internet is teaming with you. If you haven't already, you may want to team with JD at big trucks/big rvs. Looks like he is engaged as well.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you so much for your support and kindness! It means the world to us! We pray your Riverstone continues to serve you well and that you never experience frame failure!

[@jeffgurnsey7534]

As a fellow full timer i have enjoyed your channel and videos i hope to keep see you on here. what i would say is never give up on your dream. i was looking at an up grading to a grand design but i think i will navigate tack to my other choices now. thanks for all the great videos and information you have put out over the years hope you are able to keep pursuing your dreams. hope to see you back out there best of luck.

[@PavingNewPaths]

You're very welcome! Good luck on your decision and safe travels!

[@MrElh358]

Respect for you both, it’s great to see the integrity you displayed in this situation. It would have been too easy to lie for your benefit. Keep on doing the right thing!

[@Powerstroke98]

It's just so sad that Grand Design Group, doesn't have the integrity that it's customers can be proud of! I thought Grand Design was one of the higher end units, but this frame flex issue pushes it near the bottom now. This, in the end is going to get out to everyone, and hurt Grand Design, where they would have been better off taking the high road and fixing peoples frames!

[@donnanr42]

Well said! Key word INTEGRITY. You just don't see much of that these days. My daddy was a firm believer that a MANS HAND SHAKE WAS HIS WORD.

[@edwardashworth5195]

Fantastic truthfully honest video. Nice to see someone who does not want to rip off the insurance. So many scammers out there it’s horrible. Hope the Tom gets what coming to him some day.All the best will keep watching to see what your life moves on to. ❤🎉

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks!

[@lisamaerow]

Thank you for raising awareness! So sorry you’re dealing with this but you’re making a difference for other people! Best of luck moving forward and please keep posting!

[@PavingNewPaths]

If one person avoids this nightmare, then it will all have been worth it! We will definitely continue posting!

[@postersm7141]

8:32 You make a great point here. Look at what’s happening with Boeing and Spirit Aerosystems. OK, spirit builds the fuselage but guess who’s name is on the airplane. Guess who’s specifications it’s built too. When that door blew out, I don’t care that it was built by Spirit Aerosystems. Bottom it, Boeing fault.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Exactly!

[@denniskwasnycia1950]

So sorry to hear what you have been going through. I just saw a video on RV's from 2019 and newer, were not so good and the quality of the older one's were so much better. You have integrity, don't change! What is in your heart on what you want to do? If you still want to travel full time, sell it as is and get another great RV you know will be solid.

[@scottsatterfield5696]

In reference to what to do with the RV, I would put in on a lakeside site like you mentioned and rent it as often as your comfortable with to help cover all costs and hopefully recover some of the remaining balance. That gives your family a nice weekend getaway that is still productive for you. Good luck!

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks!

[@jim87vette]

Thanks for your honesty. I have an 2018 381M, no problems yet and keeping an eye on it the best I can. I had a 2004 gearbox that the frame broke around the pinbox area. I stripped it down and had a welder come in and we replaced all the front frame with box frame steel. Worked 👍 great. All kind of options for you all. Enjoy your videos, I know you all will work through this eventually.

[@Goatroppin]

Whatever you do, don't abandon your channel. Great content, good and honest people. How could we survive without Phil? He's the greatest chair connoisseur west of the Mississippi! He keeps me on the edge of my chair! People from Texas are generally good and kind hearted people. Cut Tom (boy) a little slack. I'm sure he's a tofu eating soy boy from the west coast where they don't need a black tank when there is a perfectly fine sidewalk available!

[@lisahance]

It's good to see that there are people like you who have integrity.

[@kathleengrady4988]

NOT ALL HEROES WEAR CAPES! YOU GUYS ARE TRUE HEROES! Be steadfast, persistent think about all the good that will eventually come from these stories. The industry needs to catch up with the engineering capabilities. RV'ers are on the move let's make the RV's keep up!!

[@teamsrx]

We had a KZ trailer were the underfloor was tongue and grove plywood. A year into ownership we found a spot where the tongue and grove broke and made a bump in the floor. Took it to the dealer and after a month they had it fixed. Next trip with it and when we got back we had 9 more places were the joint failed. Back to the dealer again and this time the dealer said we would need to send it back to the factory where they would pull the whole thing apart and fix or replace the floor. That process would take 6 months and they were willing to do it over the fall/winter/spring timeframe. We were allowed to use it during that summer but like you we were just worried about our family safety. Then we found out by the time we got it back we would be out of warranty and other issues, including the floor would be on us. We just lost all faith in this trailer and we worked with out dealer to trade it in and get a deal on a different companies RV. I would also talk to dealers and see if there is a way to get out of this rig and get into something and still be able to do your dream. If you stop your dream before you finish, most likely you will never finish it and will bother you later in life. Whatever your decision you take make sure it makes you happy. Life is to short for what ifs. Take care guys.

[@garyself7872]

We had a very similar issue with our 2021 Vanleigh Vilano. I believe we share the same or very similar frame. We had both a bent frame above the left equalizer and also excessive frame flex in the front area. We didn't use insurance for similar reasons to yours. We had a local (very experienced) welder to take care of the frame issue above the left equalizer and he also added 1/4 inch gussets to replace/add to the 1/8 inch gussets that were part of the front frame flex issue. We also had the welder add 1/4 inch cross members between all of the suspension hangers, ironically at Lippert's recommendation. We also found out later that our lag bolts were stripped on one side and non-existent on the other. The Tishomingo RV service center took care of that. FYI, the Tishomingo service center used to work solely on Vanleigh/Tiffin products but now they work on all brands. Impressive folks up there.

[@Roaddog77]

This is one of the best videos I've run across on any subject matter. You guys set the example perfectly on all points how to handle these situations and info on the other sybjects of how to speak and what to look for in these repair scammers. Your conduct was amazing while speaking to all of the different people about the repairs and the insurance liability and the negative you tubers with their sorry comments . Thanks for posting this video i will share it..good luck on your journey to get this matter resolved..

[@kathiewood3441]

Here is a "thinking outside of the box" idea...what about putting the rig at the lake spot you have a available and then Air B&B it. Maybe that would provide some income to cover keeping on the lake lot and put some money in your pocket. Or you could buy a permanent site to keep it on and rent it out. We bought a used Holiday Rambler for their quality, because the newer Rvs aren't made like the old tanks, lol. I hope your family can find an quality rig so you continue to make awesome memories with your babies! Wish your family the best of luck. Love you guys and God Bless!! ❤

[@Roadburner426]

This is crazy. I knew getting the RV fixed would be a huge issue, but Tom doing his thing and going to the sponsors is even bigger.. I like how the frame breaking is classified by him as a “minor” issue.. Makes me glad I have a travel trailer even though that too has its own issues. Hopefully stuff gets better though, and that Alicia is enjoying the Explorer.

[@Powerstroke98]

Very true, a friend just had to have his trailer frame welded, where they added even more steel to make it stronger, so it's not only fifth wheels. I've heard of springs cracking and breaking on trailers and fifth wheels as well, yet you'll see some old truck built in the '50's still on the road, with it's stock springs and frame. Amazes me that a few more $$ couldn't be spent to rectify such issues as this.

[@SaltyVetAdventures]

Keep it up guys! Fight the good fight and ignore the Toms out there! 🤣 I am with you 100% when you say that once your frame fails, you can't trust it anymore. You know how I know. If you have a nice lot on the lake and you enjoy the lake...that's a good option. But, it seems like just washing your hands of it might be the less stressful route. Good luck on whatever you decide and keep us posted.

[@georgeprietz4424]

Thank You and prayers to you folks. I’m so sorry this happened to you. I’m thankful for the videos. I had the cashiers check in hand to buy a GD solitude. But no way now. My full time plans are going to wait awhile until rv makers get things figured out.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you for your prayers! We are so glad you saw our videos before handing over your cashier's check! Surely, some positive changes are coming in the industry soon, so we think waiting would be a smart decision!

[@nhbomar]

I appreciate your honesty and your concern not only for your family but for others on the road. We need more of that attitude in this world. If it were me, I would park it and use it as a vacation 'home' if I had somewhere to park it. If not, I would sell it like you are considering, to someone who knows all about the problems. Good luck.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! The world needs a lot more integrity, especially from businesses like GD!

[@AJ-HawksToxicFinger]

Thank you so much for this warning, I am shopping for an RV and fell in love with one of their bunk house models. Back to the drawing board, thanks for helping me dodge a bullet.

[@amossnowdaharleyman9179]

You've answered your own "what would you do question". Sell the unit while you can.I don't think it will bring the pay off though. As a known broken frame unit and IF it was an insurance claim unit it would end up at Copart and on a good day bring well under $20,000.00.Personally, I would be reaching out to a qualified and reputable law firm with class action experience and get the ball rolling for same. Problem with that is Grand Design could be forced into bankruptcy if they get tagged with full liability for bad design specs. Forced recall is another option: huge and heavy trailer with known frame design defects. Complete frame seperation/failure is a deadly hazard. D.O.T. would be interested.

[@stogiedude1]

I agree whole heartedly. Get an attorney and sue both lippert and G.D.

[@CentralPlainsEnt]

Just remember lawyers always work on somebody else's money so contacting one of them would be nothing but throwing money down the toilet if you want to get an attorney go to your attorney general's office and see if they'll do something and the answer is probably going to be no but what is the phone call cost? Look at class action lawsuits, lawyers get paid and clients get peanuts in my opinion. Best of luck to you.

[@darinkagolob7668]

I thoroughly enjoyed listening to this video and how you explained everything. You 2 are genuine and everything happens for a reason and also it is how you deal with it! Thanks for being you!

[@donnanr42]

I agree! They, in my opinion, are advocates for the consumer. As for TOM, shame on him.

[@Sykinetik]

I was at the Seattle RV Show this weekend - went into the new riverstone rv they had there. The trim on the front ceiling was buckling… the sales lady said it was just expansion… ummm it was fine everywhere else… that’s exactly where it would flex if the frame was busted. She walked away and hid.

[@scottmaclean95]

Bittersweet but your content is always good. That means we and others will continue to follow you because of who you are and the honesty you bring.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! You are so kind to us and a great supporter of our channel!

[@WanderingMaynards]

We hope you get on the road again, we are just getting started and hoped to run into one of our favorite KZbin families some day. Good luck to you guys !

[@PavingNewPaths]

Come visit us in Texas! We can show you a good time! Safe travels to you!

[@AnnN1124]

We're going to an RV show later this week and we will be wearing your shirts. I think I'd be inclined to just park it at a lake and use it for weekends. I would never feel comfortable traveling with it. As for Tom...'nuf said. You two are smart and thorough. How sad this has happened to you and so many others. Keep fighting the good fight. You have a lot of support.

[@kevincameron8437]

Great speech about the manufacturers's need to be upfront and honest when asked about the frame issues. I know this is a sticky situation, but the manufactures's need to be up front and honest and actually design a product that doesn't fail. I'm sorry ya'll are having to be stationary for awhile, but ya'll will find a solution before long and will be Paving New Paths with a new rig before long. Thanks for sharing.

[@jamesd1672]

You need to get a third party to inspect and prove the frame is defective. Call the company and file a "latent" defect not a warranty claim. Then file your claim in court. This makes the manufacturer cover any defect under normal use regardless of warranty. A safety issue will help your claim. Just think if you get enough people together to file claims this can turn into a class action law suit.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you for this information!

[@erinatkinson6549]

Sorry to hear are unable to continue the journey!😢 you too made some good points! I enjoy watching and listening to you and the family!❤❤!! Glad you made it back home and safe!

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you!

[@LovingAtlanta]

🙏💝Bless you guys. I’ll watch more of your videos to get caught up. I feel so bad for you guys.😭 Praying for a viable solution for you. 🙏💝

[@johncauthorn4765]

You guys are awesome. It’s good to see you all taking the high road. The thought comes to mind, class action law suit. There probably is thousands out there who would be glad to get on board. If you could afford it, Brinkley looks like a quality rig that would work for your family. We are so sorry this has happened to you all. Your dream is not over. Just be patient and work through this. Sell as is and move on.

[@Powerstroke98]

Yes, so far, have only heard good things about the Brinkley line.

[@debistoudenmier3070]

I'm so sorry you have to go through this. Stationary is a great idea. I had my 42' stationery for 7 years and it was a great getaway. Safe on the road is very important.

[@robertnasser9937]

After our upper slide corner cracks, ours was called frame Bias. It was transported by the dealer to the Manufacturer, REPAIRED and returned. Next to Morryde for the independent suspension and disk brakes and the structural support and ride is amazing.

[@slalomking]

What brand RV ?

[@robertnasser9937]

@@slalomking KZ 382MBQ 2021

[@georgeb1364]

Experts tell us the frame is not well designed. True they are not. Add to the weak design high power tow vehicles. I frequently drive the I-15 from S. Calif to Las Vegas which takes me over the Cajon Pass and up the 19-mile Baker Grade (Elevation change 960-4,130 ft in in 19 miles of almost straight road). It is not uncommon to see someone pulling their rig up at 80 MPH to show off. Wind resistance increases exponentially as speed increases. With that increase in force in mind think of how much frontal area there is on some 5th wheels. The wind force at high speed plus the weight of the rig transferred to the front of the frame spells failure.

[@robbiehennesey5833]

So proud of you two for being so honest about everything.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you!

[@robertjohnson2465]

I've been researching toy hauler 5th wheel trailers for a while now before I buy. Already bought a new Ram 5500 truck to pull it. I've followed Chad and Tara over at CL's for a while too. Grand Design was what I planned to purchase. But I've had it. I'm not buying anything this year because of these problems. I'll keep my money and spend more for a better product later. Probably end up going the HDT route and just sell the new RAM so I can safely tow a well-built trailer. I'm retiring. Wasting my time and money with problems like this isn't part of my retirement plan! Thank you both for putting this information out there for us that are doing our homework! We sincerely appreciate it!

[@PavingNewPaths]

We think waiting is probably the smart choice, art this point! Or finding a manufacturer that doesn't subcontract the frame build out to Lippert might be a better idea.

[@amossnowdaharleyman9179]

Grand Design is looking at a class action lawsuit against them for this. Just a matter of time. Any engineer can look at the design of the frame which is fine for a static load but the engineer(s) will recalculate the load for normal load shock when being towed on average roads. I retired from manufacturing factory ownership. The packaging system I used was stackable 3 high (up to 3000 pounds total weight) in my warehouse but were non-stackable in any dry van for transport. Whole different set of load stresses when going down any U.S. roadway.

[@boyeatsworld-vr9ci]

Tou can't sue them. They're purchase agreements are solid walls against litigation

[@amossnowdaharleyman9179]

@@boyeatsworld-vr9ci I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on youtube, but if it's safety related that goes out the window.

[@jamesmarsh9888]

@@boyeatsworld-vr9ciThis is 2024 and you can sue for ANYTHING. All you need is a competent lawyer willing to take the case.

[@johnstark4723]

​@boyeatsworld-vr9ci REALLY 😅 If they can't sue then why is there a class action suit against both companies 🤔 More people are joining the suit as time has gone on. And more will join. At a certain point lippert and GD will realize they can't win. You know there is a problem when they turn their backs on both customers and potential customers. But even though you think they can't be sued doesn't make it so. Good luck with your flawed thinking

[@johnstark4723]

​@@boyeatsworld-vr9ciOH, and look at the judgements against Thor in California who tried, and failed to get a suit against them tossed because their "agreement " is illegal. Now Thor is being sued because their agreement doesn't conform to California buyers protections. And in fact Thor knew this going in, and so does every other manufacturer.

[@mjg5154]

We absolutely love your videos! So glad we got to meet you on your trip to Cape May!

[@PavingNewPaths]

We loved meeting you, too! Thanks for your kind words and support!

[@RVLifeWithTheMuirs]

Hasn’t the issue with Grand Design gone on for quite awhile? Didn’t the “Getaway Couple” have issues with them many years ago? And they were Brand Ambassador! I have bought two Grand Design’s and haven’t had any major issues yet! Fingers crossed.

[@shannonharmon901]

We had a Sanibel with frame flex. FR would not fix due to out of warranty. I think all fifth wheels have the tendency for this which is scary. We now have a Solitude and I’m paranoid. We love your channel! I think a travel trailer might be our next choice. Please don’t give up on your dreams. We love y’all and Phil!

[@Divefreak2025]

We are blessed to be able to afford our purchase of a Brinkley, not everyone can. Upon walking through various toy haulers at our local RV show this weekend, it is easy to see the difference in build quality and price point. The only way I see things changing are with honest people like you taking a stand and by consumers staying away from bad quality. Perhaps the idea of leaving your rig stationary on a plot of recreation property and renting it out makes sense. You are in our prayers.

[@garyskye5594]

I live in an RV full time. My 11th year. I traveled all over for years but stopped due to health 4 years ago. I now have a year round spot in an RV park. There is a 300 site Seasonal section also. It's loaded with 5th wheels. They are set up and never leave. They are sold where they sit, for the next family to enjoy. Set it up on a nice site. Add a small shed and a bit of landscaping, and enjoy. When you are ready, sell it. Most likely it will sit there for many years until it may be upgraded due to age. Wishing you the best.

[@stevehunt9703]

We are fulltiming, we did not intend to but we are. Five years in an infinity and they have been great years inspite of covid and major health issues. My recommendation would be contact a lawyer and see what they think about going after Grand Designs. The lawyer needs to be experianced in this type of claim with a track record to back it up. Perhaps he could go after Tom as well. Second if legal action wont work I would talk to a couple of the big companies such as Beacon or DRV and ask about trading yours for one of theirs and be a sponsor. Third take your rig to a welding company experianced in fixing oil field equipment and or semi trailers with a good track record and get it fixed. For sure it can be fixed and I am sure there are welding companies that would love to get some of the sizable frame flex market and would cut you a deal to be ambassador's for them. You guys are in Texas so getting a welding company to fix this should not be a problem as long as you have enough gvw to add a couple hundred pounds of steel. I would fix it and carry on with what you were doing because properly fixed it will be better than anything you can buy except probably Beacon or DRV. If you get this fixed or replaced and carry on I cannot imagine you and your family will ever regret your decision. Then if you quit later it will be because you quit on your terms when and how you wanted to and not because of Grand designs. If you let this issue define your travels you will always remember this above anything else. While this has been terrible, you can rise above it and carry on way easier than with some of the other things life can throw at us. I am certain you will be approached by multiple honest businesses willing to help you carry on as you wish. Keep selling those T shirts until Grand Designs pay you to stop or provide a replacment Good luck.

[@JasonPeterson-g2m]

I was in the same situation but I saw it earlier on. So no damage to anything. I added steel to the frame front to back. Reinforced the front with gussets and added to the frame. Metal will still flex but not as bad if designed properly. The flimsy metal frame they make flexes so to get away with adding more steel, they use the laminated walls as that extra strength but usually over a short period of time the walls fail cracks and the bolts come out because the walls can’t handle that kind of tension and strain. You can put bigger bolts back in but they will come back out. They are made out of aluminum and fiberglass. Asking to much from the walls to support the frame

[@PavingNewPaths]

We're so glad to hear your frame was salvageable!

[@tomsahunter3395]

Tom most definitely works for grand design! I own a 2019 momentum and now I am very worried. I've already owned a forest river hyperlight that had a broken frame which i repaired personally because I've been a welder for 37yrs but i don't want to ever do it again. There's so much labor involved in removing the front cap and fiberglass sheeting. Its no fun😢

[@alannichols8977]

You are so right, If they had faith in their product they would not be afraid of your T shirts . Keep up the good work you two .

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks!

[@josephwalker7646]

I was at a rv show in Florida at the Alliance display. I mentioned frame flex and the two Alliance representatives started laughing because they without saying what manufacturer knew the one I was talking about and said they have seen your videos and others and are concerned for those with frame issues.Praying this works out for you guys. Me and my wife will be traveling to Texas staying in different parts of Texas for the month of April.

[@mommasonthemove9144]

Yall should,start a campground. Your fans would totally book stays. Yall could have community campfires with s’mores so people could just spend time chatting.

[@ralphowens4510]

That is mostly done in RV campgrounds. ???

[@mommasonthemove9144]

@ralphowens4510 I'm meaning like designated hangout times with Alecia, Kevin and the kids. They couldn't possibly stand around talking 24/7. So designated campfires would be a good way of getting together and getting to know each other without it conflicting with responsibilities.

[@ralphowens4510]

@@mommasonthemove9144 understood. I just think alot of campgrounds already do things like this

[@mommasonthemove9144]

@@ralphowens4510 you’re missing the point. Not every campground would have this couple run it.

[@ricardobrown8746]

Just saw this video and I was strongly considering Grand Design but now I will be strongly reconsidering Grand Design... Thank you for your message.

[@PavingNewPaths]

You'd be smart to stay far away from a GD product for the time being!

[@kathydavis1242]

I've recently subscribed to your channel and I have watched the few videos concerning your RV. These are great videos and you people seem very honest and genuine. As far as what would I do with that RV, my first thought would be to get rid of it. As a general rule I don't like holding onto pieces of crap or things that don't work as they should. You had some good options in the video as far as potential buyers. Sounds like a great rig for a campground to buy and rent out.....a lot of people looking to rent these things. Or, if you had a place to park it, you could also rent it out. That's my 2 cents. Good luck, I hope it works out for you and your family.

[@Gunner521]

I am so glad we started watching your show, we almost bought a brand new 2024 grand design. After watching your show, and the many comments that we have seen in frame flex we decided to go with a different manufacture. Thank you.

[@PavingNewPaths]

We're so glad you saw our videos before deciding on an RV! Good luck in your search!

[@tedsheldon11]

You endorsed Ultimate Cloth and Blu Tech and we love our ultimate cloth!!!! Also our filters are great for good tasting water!

[@PavingNewPaths]

We're so glad you love your UltimateCloth and BluTech products! They've been great partners of our channel!

[@25252525etrexft]

Thank you guys for your efforts with this experience. Im learning a lot for becoming a future owner of an RV.

[@PavingNewPaths]

You're very welcome!

[@betterwithrum]

My opinion is get a smaller trailer or 5th wheel for vacations. I personally couldn't full time. But, I'm happy you guys found a way to do that. I'm thinking we’ll trade in our unit before it has issues

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks! In anything smaller, fulltiming would be a bigger challenge for our family!

[@k-mparker]

What a gooood video guys!!! My recommendation is to get shirts that say “Not So Grand Design.” Then have below that “Make Frames Great Again.” 👍😃🍻

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! That's a great shirt idea!

[@Sushi2735]

You have no idea how sorry I am for this mess! You are nice decent people raised with good honest values. So glad you dint get scammed. Just think of the older people who will get scammed. Keep your chin up. Better days are coming. Happy times too! 😊

[@legallyblondetakesahike7076]

I hope that you find a way to resolve this horrible situation. Your unwillingness to compromise your values is a breath of fresh air. Does make you wonder how these claims are approved.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you!

[@markweiner3896]

I'm so sorry for you guys.... good luck trying to get out for exactly what you owe... even if that's not possible... you'll feel better just getting this behind you.... What a tragedy.... yeah, an RV that's designed to be taken places and just doesn't work, unbelievable. This should be a lesson to many people who should pay close attention to these issues.... Sorry for your loss....

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you! It's a lesson learned on our end and hopefully we can prevent others from this Grand Disaster!

[@v8eater2]

Good on you for being honest.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks!

[@jimmymcclosky3786]

I really enjoy your information and the journeys that your family makes. I’m really, really sad that this debacle your family has endured the past few months with your rv. You and your family always give out great information about the rv life and all of the great locations to visit. Thank you for sharing your experiences and the amazing people you have met along the way. Life is too short and difficult at times. Your family will make the best decision that’s for you. Again, don’t give up your dreams. You might have to change the journey or directions a bit but continue living life.

[@wolfpack3121]

You guys are so knowledgeable. I enjoy every videos. Keep them coming. We learn so much watching your videos.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thank you!

[@ThoseWhoGlampTogether]

First, sorry y’all are dealing with this issue! I (Mike) work in the automotive industry. Our company is 100% responsible for all of the suppliers parts that get installed into our cars! Seems like Grand Design needs to have a recall to make this right. Wishing you well!

[@johnhutchins809]

I’m no longer considering a Grand Design product. Planning on a Northwood product (Arctic Fox). I appreciate your honesty.

[@PavingNewPaths]

I think that's a smart choice at the present time! Good luck with your purchase and safe travels!

[@briandonnasmith9941]

I’d recommend selling it because you’ll never be as happy in it as you were previously. You’re both young enough and still have a lot of life ahead of you. Do what makes you happy….

[@dave-pf7lt]

I have to commend you guys for honesty. It’s refreshing to see these days.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Thanks!

[@steveschneider2112]

Our 2021 Durango has…. Yep you guessed it Frame Flex. We are lucky since it was still under warranty. It’s 1000 miles away right now back at the factory getting fixed. We are launching it as soon as it gets back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are going to buy a Murphy bed bumper pull! Hopefully there won’t be frame flex on that! It’s so frustrating because we will have negative equity on it! Good Luck Guys!!❤❤❤❤❤

[@PavingNewPaths]

Good luck to you, as well! Safe travels!

[@georgehartle8902]

Great video! The only problem with building smaller rigs, is that they are having "Frame Failure" with smaller rigs as well.

[@PavingNewPaths]

Agreed!