Grapplers: Why Do They Suck?

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Like all the other character archetypes, grapplers have their pros and cons. You can not expect to just take one and win matches. But playing them in a way feels like using a shortcut to success - at least till the mid-level of skills. We discuss grapplers in fighting games in this video on DashFight’s channel.
For general info on character archetypes, check out our video 👉🏼 • Exploring Fighting Gam...
Grapplers may benefit from simplified input a bit more than the others. Do you agree? We have a big discussion on Modern and Classic Controls 👉🏼 • Classic vs Modern Cont...
Knowing frame data is a deep dive into your characters, regardless of whether they are grapplers or zoners. More info on this fundamental principle 👉🏼 • Fighting Games Essenti...
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[@DashFight]

Grapplers are present in many fighting games, and for many players they are just fun choices, alongside other characters in the roster. All the fuss around this archetype may be based rather on emotions… but man, getting grabbed and destroyed is not the best feeling at all. Maybe becoming better with your character will help you deal with all sorts of opponents, including grapplers. Some useful info can be found among various guides and articles on dashfight.com/

[@rob0893]

One of the benefits of playing King in tekken is the ability to brawl while also doing grabs. Honestly, King is the best designed grappler ever made, in my opinion.

[@seanchan4478]

Love King. I'm trash with him, but I give it a try every time there's a new tekke

[@Boom_OH]

Easily the best.

[@donovannutting4811]

Yeah, and he’s hype asf to watch

[@KidArkx]

Well, I say Iron Tager is the best designed grappler, even if he's not very good

[@Majestros]

King is so much fun to play in Tekken 8

[@Gilbot9000]

The skill in Grapplers doesn't come from executing long combos, but from just *getting to a place where they can land the grab*. It's a different, but equally valid skill, that many players do not want to acknowledge, so they say grapplers are disrespectful, scrubby, braindead, whatever.

[@DontKnowDontCare6.9]

Basically sore losers.

[@brentacomoose]

Less execution. More spacing, patience, and reading/manipulating your opponent.

[@burningphoneix]

You keep saying "disrespect" but how is any of the grappler's style disrespectful? How is a grab any more disrespectful from a Dive kicking rushdown character that does a 15 second long combo for 75% damage? No one calls Dhalsim "disrespectful" for having a teleport and normals that hit the other side of the screen. No one calls Akuma "disrespectful" for vortex sheningans and air fireballs but a Grappler going through an entire obstacle course to land one move with a range barely longer than a jab is disrespectful??????

[@Gothaman1]

I like giving someone a vibe check with command grabs, it helps people learn how to avoid grabs

[@funnyusername4774]

Honestly I think grapplers are generally really fun to fight against because even if they might not actually be trying that hard beating them feels like you really outplayed them, more so than it does when you fight other rushdown characters or even zoners sometimes. The one exception I’d say for this would be King from Tekken. He’s fun and all, and I like how his gameplan isn’t 100% grabs since he can just brawl it out too, but his grab vortex where you have a million different things to try and break, especially when you’re someone like me who plays a lot less Tekken than they do something like street fighter or even smash? That shit sucks. I get that it’s a guessing game and you can lab out breaks to figure out what breaks what, but it feels so arbitrary. It’s not anything you can base off of other factors, it’s just basically invisible rock paper scissors. If you’re point blank on someone on wake-up in SF, there’s definitely a guessing game that goes on there, but you can use other information to inform your decision like if your opponent’s character is someone that wants to maintain close quarters or play keep away or whatever. There’s reasons you can look at to guess what they might do. With king it’s like memorizing dates for a history test. I get that he’s gotta have a threatening grab if he’s gonna be a grappler, but I’d be a lot less annoyed if that came in the form of an unbreakable grab or a grab that leads into an easy, high damaging combo. But I mean what do I know, I’ve been grinding sf6 since it released and I’ll hop back on Tekken when 8 comes out but until then maybe I’m just out of the loop idk

[@superbearchrist1716]

I play grapplers in tekken 7 mostly. King despite having a weak sidestep and backdash still has a good tool kit though the trick for me is knowing how to make him agile. I use his cross chop, his uf1+2, and wave dash mix ups consistently along with his counterhit tools. I don't even need to do a chain grab from wave dash if I just pull off a black bomb ch I get about a good 70-80 damage juggle or more if I think I can make the wallsplat into his wall specific throw. His 3 rush in options are good too as his running knee is plug on block and causes a crouch, his explorer is fast and beats out most rage arts, and his shining wizard is tricky to break. Other than that I mostly play as Paul who is an oddball as despite not being considered a grappler he has a full throw mix up for every situation. Tech roll forward into cross chop then on block using 1+4 to get a wallsplat into death fist is a staple for me. Though I'm only a genbu so rank 20 out if 36 so not bad but not impressive either.

[@TekkenShazam]

Never enjoyed the CapCom/ArcSys style of Grapplers. The sacrifices they make for their power felt overboard and not fun to me. Its a design I'll enjoy spectating, but not gonna bother to play. Always enjoyed KOF grapplers more, while they have their issues. Its hilarious how they can just be... real characters lol.

[@seanchan4478]

they're good at one thing, hit hard, and if they're ever the least bit good everyone demands they get nerfed

[@Quinmcgaming]

As a Grappler, I can confirm 100% that all these facts are true. There is one thing that Grapplers do excel at somewhat better than others, due to their lack of options: Neutral.

[@unciervoenciervado]

I can't consider King a grappler. He has all the annoying tools a grappler has with none of the drawbacks. He has good movement speed, great pokes and plenty of options for each scenario.

[@armorparade]

the thing is they design grapplers that have tools to do more than seek the grab and swing hard! look at kof for example, it's got plenty of grapplers that aren't built around inferior movement but still have a command grab as the glue that holds their kit together. zangief is often seen as the face of grapplers but my favorites have always been more like shermie

[@kuaikukia]

I used to play zoner. Using Rose playing USF4. Didn't touch on SF5 cause is trash. I finally playing Grappler as Manon in SF6. Oh, boy. the struggle is real especially playing againts faster character. But some how more satisfy than playing zoner because it makes you feel smart if you can land the grab and Manon's animation change on depend on level that makes more satisfying to watch

[@GramdalfFGC]

Grapplers should be better, like gief in SF4, I don’t think they should be ultra top tier but I think they need some love. It’s like Dhalsim is a zoner right? He was absolutely cracked in SFV and he’s not bad now.

[@AgentownshipRebelion]

Don't really play them but I don't really mind fighting them. Takes all kinds to make a fighting game. It's good to have different play-styles to try and puzzle out how to beat.

[@sleepfgc]

4:11 Potemkin (from strive at least) doesn't even have a 360 move... "potemkin buster" is half circle back + forward + P, and you don't even show that, you show "heavenly potemkin buster" which is quarter circle forward twice + S...

[@OpenMynd82]

I think every archetype has pros and cons... even the so called top teir OP archetypes have cons to them. I personally dont hate the grappler archertype..in fact those are some of my best matchups. I win 70% of those matchups which is extemely high for any fighting game...

[@thacool101]

I love grapplers they have some of my favorite designs mostly because I'm a wrestling fan so they speak to me i just suck at like all of them and so play other characters

[@ardidsonriente2223]

Give me a fight against a Gief over a fight against a Ryu, any day. IMO hating grapplers is nothing but a clear sign that someone needs to mature a bit. I dont like using grapplers that much because I don't like being slow and patient. But I can recognize how cool is when someone knows how to be slow and patient. Grapplers in good hands are just amazing to fight against, and to watch playing too.

[@grantgarbour]

Depends on who you play, I get bored fighting grapplers because I usually play rushdown characters. So I have to put myself right into the fire to get my pressure and damage where they don't need to worry about approaching most of the time. Their buttons are usually bigger than mine and all it takes is a couple throws to equalize the game. But what makes it the most boring imo is that in most games when you're fighting a Grappler, as soon as you're in their range, you are guessing

[@beganfish]

@@grantgarbour So are they. The whole point of a rushdown character is to get in and force their opponent to guess, so I guess you don't like having the tables turned.

[@grantgarbour]

@beganfish difference is when I make someone guess it's usually between a strike or a throw or some petty cash worth of damage. When I'm face to face with a grappler in usually guessing for 40% of my health bar 2 examples, King in tekken with his back to the wall. U1+2b throws you backwards for a wallsplat and giant swing wall splats to increase it's damage tremendously And Gief in Sf6 either SPD or I jump guessing SPD and get hit by either his spinning fists or the air SPD. Sometime both if he spends meter Regardless tables being turned doesn't exactly have much to do about it. Like I said I have to get in to apply my mix a decent amount of times, I'm essentially doing the work for them. It's not that we're bith trying to get in, it's that a grappler's weakness is usually getting in, so I'm doing that for them most of the time. And I think the whole jump or don't jump 50/50 into half my life is pretty boring yeah

[@beganfish]

@@grantgarbour You think you only get 'petty' damage from a strike throw? The difference between grapplers and most characters is that their damage comes from command grabs and not strikes. Gief gets PETTY damage from his strikes, and big damage from throws, whereas other characters get petty damage from throws and BIG damage from strikes. Additionally, rushdown characters usually have more defensive options, whereas grapplers never do anymore. If you knock gief down, what can he do? Wakeup level 3 if he has full meter. And lastly, gief doesn't get big damage if you jump, if he is hitting you with lariat, that means he chose NOT to attack, and waited to bait a jump, if your opponent starts doing those kinds of baits you can punish them by attacking when you wakeup.

[@drongodyle3156]

Kinda weird for me to realise that King from tekken, one of the most recognizable grapplers in fighting games, completely ignores a lot of defining grappler trends. Health? Same as everyone else. Massive Hitbox? Not by tekken standards. Simple kit? Dude has literally broken the record for longest move-list in a fighting game 3 games in a row. Short range? Hell no. Moves like forward 2,1 go CRAZY far. Slow normals? Nope. In fact has some great fast options. Slow movement? On paper his backdash is garbage, but he has Jaguar step instead to create distance (and the fact you'd ever WANT to create distance is pretty telling that king isn't your average grappler). Also has plenty of safe moves that include large amounts of forward movement, like F2,1 and U1+2 "Cheap" damage? 99% of his grabs are high, so they're no better at breaking through a block than lows are. The few mid grabs are basically redundant, because they only hit if the opponent ducks, meaning you could just hop-kick them instead for a full combo. Struggles to close in? LMAO dude has his own unique wavedash, some crazy evasive attacks, and litterally has an armored run in T8 😂

[@blooddumpster3427]

there are no 360 inputs in strive

[@Ramsey276one]

Oddly that's how I have to do it on Switch... (GGXXAC)

[@teglasiadam6258]

I disagree with the takes in this video. Lets say you are talking about a slow grappler in a 2D fighting game. Usually their advantages will be: BIG DMG SATISFYING GRABS, big HP, (this is why they are animated as it is,) great and long ranging normals, usually a lot of plus frames on block, splendid mixups with plus frames leading to frametrap/command grab/antiair, therefore great potential to play mindgames, terrifying Oki, (with some exceptions like sf6,) and the ability to install fear of the other player! (Not rage as you described, usually a raged player try to get close to deal some serious damage, not trying to get away to avoid dmg.) Their disadvantages will be: Big hurtbox, slow walkspeed, and limited combo options leading to small DMG. (While a rush down character usually deals 50-60% with a big combo killing their opponents with 2 openings, grapplers can usually can only do around 40% with combo or with command grabs leading to usually a 3 opening kill.) You cannot say that the weakness of grapplers, that they are borig, lazy with lab, and way too single minded, because it isn't true at all. To be a good grappler you need constant reads, a solid understanding of fundamentals, and a lot of lab time to create setups. Getting comand grabs are satisfying because it is the result of solid reads.

[@DontKnowDontCare6.9]

If an opponent with a slow @$$ grappler (or Dan Hibiki) beats you, you know you have to review your life choices.

[@fancyhermit7]

Playing as a grappler I would struggle getting close to a zoning character. Playing against a grappler means I have to get close and that's the worse part

[@lordlundin6495]

Try Reiko in mk1. He's a scrub killer, being the best zoner in the game. At least his command grab is trash af.

[@ImperiousRex720]

I'm surprised you didn't do mk1 Reiko he is a grapper and doesn't have to much trouble at all especially when he got one projectile unless you pair him with a kameo that also has one

[@jelaninoel]

Grapplers never win, they just steal your victory

[@sergiop8902]

Will you guys go back to sf6 character guides?

[@Boom_OH]

The thing is king doesn't suck lol.

[@eagleye2893]

Considering he functions differently compared to Grapplers like Pot and Gief (Chaining multiple command grabs and being able to brawl without them just fine).

[@rorykincannon1166]

I think Zoners are far more hated and a better archetype base then grapplers.

[@newphonewhodis7152]

As a gief main i feel like im struggling more against rushdown then against zoners smh. If people keep crossing me up ive no clue what to do

[@troyburk4637]

Does lariat cover cross ups?

[@newphonewhodis7152]

@@troyburk4637 no :/

[@marlinmurrell620]

I'm feeling the same pain lol

[@beganfish]

Grapplers used to be strong gainst rushdown because they had good defenses, but over the years, companies have decided that grapplers should have weak defence, so now they lose to zoners and rushdown.

[@danieleduardoperezharris2638]

i like some i dislike some like any character archytype but i rather fight them than zoners

[@beganfish]

The whole idea of grappler archtypes being all about 'disrespect' sounds incredibly strange. It sounsd like whoever wrote the script was very new to fighting games, or only ever looked at reddit posts as research. There is nothing inherently disrespectful about the mixup orientated style of grapplers, just like there isn't any disrespect for the keep away zoning style, or the heavy, oppressive rushdown style. Grapplers also don't typically have simple playstyles, 'geting in' isn't easy when an opponent is trying to stop you, and lastly, grapplers are a weak archtype, there is a reason that they are almost always bottom tier in every fighting game.

[@fiveromannumerals]

Grapplers suck because people keep bitching about them.

[@Ramsey276one]

They *don't.* The experience of some players with them (As OR Against) does.