Why are Grapplers so feared and hated in Fighting Games?

[@Rooflemonger]

So in this video I try to keep the memes down to a minimum(even though this whole video should have been nothing but me dunking on people who don't like grapplers and calling them bums), and try to look at exactly why do people dislike and hate grapplers so much in fighting games. As a post video editorial comment I will add its probably cause they are all cowards!!!

[@DJKHAI23]

Grapplers are cool in their own way as it teaches one to respect grabs. I wish I could play some of them like Shermie but I can’t preform a 360 at all/ very well. This is why I play off brand grabblers, Makoto and Q in 3S. And I try to play Sakura my main and favorite character like one too as they never see run up and grab.

[@MrBornUnique]

Just the same as Dhalsim was voted the #1 HATED character in SFV on EventHubs 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Trash players who could NEVER deal with Dhalsim & Zangief have always hated them!!!

[@greasemasterreviews2594]

"What, you want me to lab or something?"...

[@ironshinobi9384]

@@DJKHAI23 wait shermie don't have a 360 motion

[@DJKHAI23]

@@ironshinobi9384 I’m new to KoF never played a game before but seen some gameplay of older games and know some lore and characters so I want to get 15.

[@matrix3509]

"Mankind knew they could not escape the Pot Buster, so instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed the grapplers."

[@jasonelbowran4l]

Or their footsie. But it's easier to have a whipping boy then to just improve. Lol

[@Ramsey276one]

LOVED THIS, starter XD

[@blargh3428]

Potempkin did need a nerf imo but not Zangy! What were they thinking with nerfing him again? He's never been all that great

[@TyRiders2]

This comment needs to be Pinned

[@tyfp3854]

WrestleMania gear.

[@Robotgod3000]

"No way he's going to grab me again on my wake up" the answer is yes he is lol

[@xigabrelless1980]

Its the grab super on wake up

[@Aulvikdngr]

At least he has the decency to let you wake up first. Some grapplers can and will grab you when you're down.

[@xigabrelless1980]

@@Aulvikdngr its quite rude to let people think they have a chance

[@serph2951]

*he already got me once i bet next time he will expect me to jump, so ill attack instead* 🤡

[@maximilian_ggdas]

Unless you neutral jump on wake up of course. Then he uses the move that is perfectly to designed to punish that which they ALL have for some godforsaken reason.

[@littlegentleman3262]

"You either die a Shoto, or live long enough to see yourself become a Grappler"

[@Ramsey276one]

LOVE THIS

[@LuisJimenez-yx1er]

LMAO DUDE! I’m a Chun Main but when I want to have fun I play Zangief lmao 😂😂😂😂 my favorite thing to do is dash up SPD at max range 🤣. My transition is slowly occurring lmao

[@splnter648]

I guess I did become the grappler, proud of it though!

[@DarkheroNateX]

wait but I started as grappler, what does that make me?

[@splnter648]

You were destined to be a shoto in your past life then?

[@jerry4040]

People will throw projectiles all the match but will cry when the grappler manages to get close

[@karuiGaming]

You don't understand, I was already cying when I was throwing those projectiles. Grapplers scare the shit out of me

[@clueless7822]

Grapplers feel a lot more unfair. For Zangief and Potemkin (so far I've played only sf5 and strive) we need to wittle down their health with combos that we need to grind for hours to get down and they just nullify all of that effort with one move. That is so frustrating. If you mistake even once they get to punish you with at least a third of a healthbar gone. I mean ppl zone grapplers bc getting near them is so punishing. In strive and sf5 there's a lot of wiggle room for zoners, so they feel a lot less frustrating.

[@mrchocoslave7859]

@@clueless7822 You talk like Kara cancels and command grab combos aren't hard to land

[@clueless7822]

@@mrchocoslave7859 but you need to land it only once to get a lot of value. Not even mentioning that it wouldn't take a lot of effort to develop a decent dmg combo whereas any other character archetype you need to develop muscle memory and hand dexterity for tens/hundreds of hours to develop a good dmg combo and that isn't even mentioning the fact that you need to see if you can even use it in a real online fight, which also takes a lot of time and effort. Even zoners need a lot of time and effort to pull anything decent. And for grabbers you need to figure out a way to grab the opponent and grab them that's it, you do the same damage (if not even more) than other archetype combos with one move. Like granted it still takes effort but it is so ridiculously miniscule when compared to any other archetype that it is invalidating. Not only that but you cannot mess up when you grab smb, if you grab them then that damage is guaranteed, unlike any other archetype in which you actually need to work to not mess up anything mid-combo.

[@mrchocoslave7859]

@@clueless7822 You aware Potemkin gets the same punish value as a rushdown landing a combo? Figuring out how to trick your opponent and how to get close to him without getting punished IS the part where you need to train yourself. Potemkin cannot actually break free from many combos and they always end up basically wall-splatting him. Potemkin takes as much effort as any other character combo and his general low tier feeling from the whole community says so. TLDR: Potemkin isn't easier than any character just because he has different playstyle and gameplay, he's even harder than other characters

[@violetbrown6712]

This reminds me of my friend in pools: "I never thought you were going to command grab me five times in a row in an actual tournament. GGs"

[@remuvs]

The real mix would have been to grab him a sixth time in a row

[@alexanderchipman9571]

@@remuvs Surely he won't go for a 7th! (But seriously, I won a game as a zoner (Axl Low GGS) the other day by just...walking up, and throwing my opponent 8 times)

[@Wazalove]

I like playing grapplers because you literally play Rock Paper Scissors but you always do Rock and they expect something else each time.

[@syrelian]

"Good reliable Rock, can't go wrong with that!"

[@unciervoenciervado]

Paper grabs rock

[@randomuser-mv7bb]

You have to condition opponent in order to use it tho. It's like solving a long math issue in order to force people to use scissor, so you can use rock.

[@zairephenom1435]

@@unciervoenciervado Don't be a boomer

[@harrylane4]

@@randomuser-mv7bb or you just don't condition and somehow win anyway. Good reliable rock.

[@KaosEspada]

"They have no respect for themselves or God." I died lol

[@jasonelbowran4l]

It's true. We have no decency... We are like Fleece Johnson in a prison shower on hard...You giving it up one way or another...lol

[@DjErrour]

lmfao the truth kinda hurts, but its perfectly fair. King's (tekken) rolling death cradle feels like im rubbing their face in their "mistake".

[@mickylord21]

Perfectly describes my T hawk style

[@Khan-_-Art1st]

I have no respect for God, true

[@Ravensgale]

We grapplers stand tall and Merkava shake the heavens.

[@sem3ndem0n_73]

"We are born of the command grab, made men by the command grab, undone by the command grab. Our eyes are yet to open. Fear the Command Grab" -Master Willem, Bloodborne

[@denisn8336]

By the gods fear the command grab laurence....

[@ismaelflores4944]

I will no forget our adage

[@guidomista5]

Grant us plus frames

[@vachder7350]

Plant plus frames on our jabs, to cleanse our beastly tick throws

[@FernandoPazin]

Grapplers all over the shop... you'll be one of them, sooner or later...

[@karue7581]

As a grappler main, I can confirm that I don't even respect my own mother.

[@AngelofEresos]

Dude, same.

[@ominousparallel3854]

Me neither. I do not respect your mother.

[@SaganTheKhajiit]

As a new player, as soon as I decided to main grapplers the very concept of respect disappeared from my brain.

[@koopatroopa2095]

u must have grappling emotions

[@clownworld3382]

@@ominousparallel3854 Savage

[@momazosnachos3939]

Potemkin with one command grab: Hated Sol with one command grab: Yo Sol is hype!!!! We live in a society.

[@frozzytango9927]

they should change the title to, "why people hate big characters" well because some people have tiny pps for egos.

[@chiggomckekllecuck5117]

Is heat knuckle not in strive?

[@momazosnachos3939]

@@chiggomckekllecuck5117 oh yeah i forgot about that move

[@chiggomckekllecuck5117]

@@momazosnachos3939 ggxxacr pot main here. Np yo

[@HasekuraIsuna]

@@chiggomckekllecuck5117 It is in Strive, but it is a hit grab and not a "true" command grab.

[@NurseValentineSG]

While I personally don't like playing as Grapplers, they need to exist for the balance of the game. It's not their fault that in the game of rock paper scissors, most players prepare for paper and scissors, but not rock.

[@justblake6975]

Thats a really cool way 2 put it

[@syrelian]

Old reliable Rock, nothing beats it~

[@huevonesunltd]

When two lesbians play guilty gear: Heaven or Hell.... Let's scissors!

[@lich.possum]

Rock gud

[@webbowser8834]

It's funny you chose rock as one of my favorite fighting game characters is a moving rock.

[@JustAdam123]

Can I just say that I love how Z Broly is not just a grappler but also a zoner, it is like this man went out of his way to be hated.

[@Ramsey276one]

Almost everyone is a zoner in FighterZ though XD

[@JustAdam123]

@@Ramsey276one Z Broly can aim his ki blasts!

[@Ramsey276one]

@@JustAdam123 OH

[@으아아-x2q]

I mean all of grabs in dbfz is quite reactable unlike 1 frame command grab in other fighting games so I think Broly is different from traditional grapplers.

[@joncliffmckinley5868]

@@으아아-x2q oh you're consistently getting out of Z Broly light grab? Video please

[@DJmouchi777]

People will throw out a dozen wack ass mixup and super long combos ending in oki all damn day, but get a command grab off on them and suddenly you're the bad guy. A lot of the more vocal grappler haters are rushdown players who don't like having to add another piece to their mental stack. Plus, a lot of people don't see the things that lead to them being command grabbed (poor spacing, an unsafe button, a hard read, etc). They just see their character eat dirt and their turn ended.

[@Rooflemonger]

Folks we got a winner, you nailed it exactly.

[@MrMastermelo15]

I watched the video and jumped to the comments to say this. You my good sir are the saint we deserve.

[@NSFSponsor]

Don't forget sloppy pressure. If you leave a gap and I'm right next to you with my 1 frame grab what do you expect to happen?

[@jasonelbowran4l]

Grapplers are the Fleece Johnsons in the prison that is a fighting game.. The easy way or the hard way...the choice is yourrrse....

[@ArtFr0g0]

I did not until right this second realize from a fundamental level, Grapplers and rushdown both are "in-fighters" and need to get close making them natural enemies. Although I don't think it always works this way but if it was Grappler beats>Rushdown Beats>Zoner then it makes sense that there would be a lot of noise from the most represented character type about their "bad" matchup. Course everyone knows grapplers have no good matchups though so it's still quite puzzling...

[@jallen2243]

Its hard to fight against the grapplers because they are often fighting "you" (the player) directly. every time you get snatched its because "you (the player) made the mistake. no matter what character you switch to its always gonna be the same until the player grows wise in the ways of the game.

[@OldManSilencer]

It’s worth adding in a common complaint about grapplers is that they steal matches and rounds grapplers typically are playing on the backfoot until they win so many players feel like they are winning until their win is ‘robbed’. I personally love grapplers i love fighting grapplers and i like the kind of polarizing match ups they bring. Both the methodical approach match up and the crazed bearhug loving madman. Granted playing a short range rush down character against a grappler that you kind of need to keep out can be really rough and i have complained being on the receiving end of that kind of match up plenty but i also complain about other bad match ups on a bad day everyone can get frustrated by their bad match ups.

[@johntoye6602]

You mean like a Fei long vs Zangief.

[@splunj4462]

Crazy to me how people hate grapplers because “they just make you guess” while playing a character with safe 50/50s lmao

[@gru_no4194]

True

[@Neogears1312]

How do you need to guess against grapplers? You keep them out and they never get in. Am I guessing if they rage quit or they’re masochistic?

[@GoSpawn_]

True u know the only thing i.can say is with 50/50s u have a well 50% percent chance but a grappler percentage is increased because it well unblockable 😂

[@LadyViolet1]

@@Neogears1312 This isn't true for every game. In some games grapplers can have really good approach options or even pretty good pokes in addition to being a grappler who gets a lot of damage off of grabs.

[@MattManDX1]

@@LadyViolet1 DBFZ with og '93 Broly is a good case in point for that. He's got great grapples, great zoning and super armor on a lot of his stuff. They may have gone a little overboard with him

[@-bemyvalentine-]

Us grappler mains get spit in the face despite the fact that our characters already are low tier. That was the true meaning of the Potemkin theme song in Strive. We truly do live in a society.

[@Fizz-Q]

It truly is an anti grappler society

[@MimebladeGMail]

In Slave's Glory... GG1

[@samuelevans738]

@@MimebladeGMail?

[@chiggomckekllecuck5117]

Ggxxcacr pot main here. Burly Heart is love, Burly Heart is life.

[@MimebladeGMail]

@@chiggomckekllecuck5117 X or XX version?

[@Mathlink2695]

Funny story: I, a mainly rushdown player, started playing Potemkin cause my friend was having trouble against my Leo and wanted to learn how to reliably Potemkin Buster, so I ran all kinds of scenarios on training mode and sent to him, but after studying Potemkin for so long, he became my main and I obliterated everyone I saw on the second Strive Beta. That's not to say he's invincible or anything, my friend's Axl was the only hard counter I had, but God, did it feel satisfying to punish people who were just on autopilot and doing combos without thinking. An advice here to you guys: never jump towards or stay still against Potemkin, get your hits and get the hell outta his reach. If he comes close, sweep and get the hell outta there, the man's a ticking time bomb.

[@RavenShield88]

And this post is why I love Grapplers....they are ticking time bombs and please....don't stay still lmao

[@GypsyDanger2000]

Wait I don't get this. So you can't stay still but can't get close, so the only choice is to have zoners?

[@yeyo1019]

@@GypsyDanger2000 if you're in breathing space of Pot you're doing something wrong

[@overdrivee00]

doing combos without thinking is an oxymoron. what you must mean is doing unsafe moves or fucking up meaty moves and eating a potbuster on wakeup.

[@xandermcdonald8543]

@@overdrivee00 a lot of combos are done on autopilot if they’re generally a good option, if you become predictable with combos against potempkin especially if it starts with a jump in you have a one way ticket to the shadow realm

[@germancastano2241]

"They are the scrub killer" I agree %100. I had a friend that likes fighting games, I'm not a good player by any means, I just play better that him. I tend to select the grappler against him. It's funny to teach him how to play in the same time is so satisfactory. I stop used potemkin again him because he doesn't fall in dumb shit anymore. If I play somebody who knows how to play I never select a grappler, if my opponent knows how to play I'm dead anyway but at least I don't look dumb for selecting a grappler and no be able to grab

[@BeetRoots]

as a rushdown player whos buddy is a grappler player, i love grapplers. they annoy me sure, but i love what they bring to the game and the forced change in mindset that you have to have when playing against one

[@MythicMachina]

I mainly play platform fighters like Smash and Rivals, but that why I love Zoners so much. A good Zoner can make you rethink your entire approach to a match. It dosen't matter if you can od a perfect 0 to Death if you have no gamesense. Same kinda goes for grapplers, but a little less so in Platform Fighters.

[@scottnotpilgrim]

They're not my playstyle but the fact they can do big damage in a heartbeat scares me

[@marche800]

That's precisely why I enjoy them.

[@nothingimportanthere2082]

@@marche800 Fax

[@NoirLouisStream]

@@marche800 You revel in their fear

[@marsupialmole3926]

As a grappler player, i can confirm, this is the intent. Grapplers generate fear, they're built to generate fear. Because fear is the mind killer. Just like how zoners generate frustration and rushdown generate panic. Grapplers want their opponents to feel that creeping dread that makes them hesitate on every move they make. They want their opponents to want to jump away when in grab range, or to overextend in pressure for fear of what follows. Because when you're scared, you're predictable.

[@lokiramza]

I think its because Grapplers reinforce the flaws in your own play. If both people play perfectly (impossible I know) A grappler should never land a command throw. Every throw you land is throwing an opponents mistake right in their face. Conversely thats why I love grapplers

[@domc9801]

If they both played perfectly then the grappler is gonna be better because the grappler is not gonna be able to see those reads so they make them for the win.

[@alvin_row]

I dunno man, on wake up a command grab or meaty is just a 50/50... it's hard to call failing a coin flip a flaw.

[@leper763]

grabs are literal mixups, nothing skillful

[@The-Checkered-Room-1313]

Say it with me grapplers, "Ape Together strong"

[@N1k0SP]

These crayons taste so good

[@jasonelbowran4l]

UNGA BUNGA!!

[@G-MEISTER6]

@@N1k0SP Even better with paint to wash it down

[@keystonelyte]

Say what? I was snorting talcum powder and I didn't hear you.

[@nikc101]

Grapplers invest in amc lmao

[@KoopaKoot]

I actually love most grapplers, especially "Gorilla Grapplers" like the ones in KOF and Rainbow Mika. HOWEVER. I am forever haunted by the sound of clanging sandals because of a certain grappler.

[@pure3811]

God dammit I thought I had forgotten Daimon clanging sandals running full speed at me

[@quicoboy]

...or Wesker's crunch...I mean Clarke...

[@dudemcguy8949]

I’m about to make you fearful with two, simple words. Gadget Finger

[@callumbreton8930]

@@dudemcguy8949 good times

[@retrostart8681]

This dude is just crazy 😂 He runs at you as a hunter who's searching for a prey 🤧

[@michaelthomas8539]

I love grapplers. The nerfing of the Archetype is really sad. There's always been a really fun mind game that you play with other people to see how well they keep their cool.

[@leper763]

fuck no, too mucu damage

[@clockwork2985]

@@leper763 but people forget the leadup to that big damage, the reads, the poor spacing, or an unsafe button, all of which a rushdown might slip up and forget about a couple times a match because they get away with it most of the time, the grappler is specifically looking for those moments to strike.

[@abbyrytel]

The worst “I feel stupid” moment is when the opponent finally realizes they can neutral jump to avoid being thrown, and the grappler reads it and anti-airs, especially if it’s an anti-air throw. I’m a grappler/big boy player for life, but even I get how disheartening that one is.

[@jasonelbowran4l]

Yep, you instill a air of hopelessness, all while limiting options and chipping away at the lifebar/sanity.. And you corner them off. Brilliant! I dub this phenomenon the "Prison Shower" effect.. lol

[@syrelian]

​@@jasonelbowran4l Its conditioning, now like, conditioning is good for any playstyle, but when you live and die on reads like a Grappler, you condition and provoke

[@brumach527]

HEAVENLY!!!!

[@reyeus5282]

HEAVENLY!!!

[@combativeThinker]

POTEMKIN!!!!

[@dusknoir64]

Because people are cowards, but not big enough cowards to figure out that keeping the giant man who wants a hug at full screen is not that hard 90% of the time.

[@dylancross1039]

It's funny when you see someone try to cheese a grappler with fireballs only to watch the big man walk the poor sod into a corner

[@Boomerangofjustice]

I remember a casual tournament at a convention I went to. One guy was playing a grappler and he was just plowing through everyone playing him. I went up and teched one of his grabs and ended up explaining how after the match to a couple people. I’m glad fighting games tend to have better tutorials nowadays.

[@monaco0042]

Then was he truly a grappler cause last time I checked command grabs have always been untechable?

[@Boomerangofjustice]

@@monaco0042 It was Blazblue and he was playing Tager. If I remember correctly, you can tech command grabs if they’re part of a combo.

[@keystonelyte]

@@Boomerangofjustice yeah, 'gold throws' like in Under Night.

[@justblake6975]

I never knew that, super cool

[@TheLukleton]

@@monaco0042 Depends on the game. In Tekken you can tech at specific points in various throws, like Lion's Rolling Death Cradle.

[@pwrightrocks]

My personal theory is that since non-grappler characters need to do these long combos, those players need to learn all this extra stuff, and then a grappler just hits one move and oh there goes a third of their health bar. Probably not a great feeling after spending a lot of time in training mode, which, I think, is where all the bitterness comes from.

[@quantumslime7265]

I think thats a valid idea. But I'd counter (not you in particular. just anyone who thinks this) with the idea that grappler players often have to spend just as much time in training trying to get their very limited combos off but also learning how to handle the neutral game. Plus any player with an ounce of game knowledge will know the possibility of a grab coming. Therefore at least in my eyes you have to work for those grabs just as much as anyone else has to work to not drop their combo. Its just the suddenness of it that makes it so embittering I'd argue. Not to mention in most games the grappler's signature command grab won't combo and resets the game to neutral. Grapplers have to metagame even harder than other players which is why most of the funny clips are about the grappler guessing right or conditioning the opponent.

[@johnalbertwrestling]

Grapplers are honest, ZONERS are cowards.

[@termitesc.aardwolf3644]

I'm personally a rushdown kinda guy.

[@theamericanbrotherofmightg3734]

95% of the fighting game player base are rushdown players. That's why many newer fighting games are more rewarding for been aggresive and so little play play Baiken or defensive character and people hated grapplers, Zooner and everything that is not Rushdown hyper aggresive characters because is not there fighting style..even thought rushdown character are often the most broken top tier and sometimes brain dead character but because they look flashy, agile and have cool looking combos they think they are not toxic and every character should follow the same rushdown formula, everything else is unfair and boring.

[@theamericanbrotherofmightg3734]

And does Rushdown characters are often counter by Grapplers becuase of them often having lower hp? No wonder everyone hate grapplers.

[@fathead3632]

@@theamericanbrotherofmightg3734 no, it's boring because it forces the game to play like musical chairs and rock paper scissors. Grapplers make the game fuckin boring bruh accept it. You ruin other people's fun.

[@Rad_Roxxi_Music]

@@fathead3632 cry more, please

[@manaormagick175]

I play Chipp and Potemkin is my favorite matchup. Being so fragile and needing to be within Buster range to effectively apply my offense makes me think harder about how me and Pot have been conditioning each other, which leads to a series of high-lethality mind games. His tag in Strive is "The Moving Fortress", and playing Chipp makes it feel like you're fighting an uphill battle against a proper castle of a man, but it's one that you can always succeed in if you're paying attention.

[@canete571]

The chipp vs pot match up has taught me to NEVER use unsafe strings against a grappler. Mfs will be buffering throw and get you the second they are slightly plus

[@marsupialmole3926]

@@canete571 This is why i miss slashback in GG. Being able to suddenly say "hahaha, you thought that blockstring was safe?" Then making someone eat a Pot Buster was the best feeling in the world

[@natecallon9755]

yeah, i beat pot most of the time with the characters i play but if i do lose to one i honestly just usually its because i got outplayed. putting that boy in the corner is fun times tho.

[@hil449]

Its way too stressful tho

[@kidbuumer4780]

One of the leading factors in grappler hate is “I was winning the entire match and then I got grabbed over and over!” You never have the lead against a grappler, they just want to bide their time

[@GhengisJohn]

We were winning. We were winning against the grappler until suddenly, we started losing.

[@samuelevans738]

False senses of security are exactly what grapplers need to win a game. Without that, they are nothing, unless they have some other archetype's tools as well.

[@marsupialmole3926]

@@samuelevans738 False sense of security and/or fear. Grapplers want you to either be overconfident or afraid, because if you're overconfident or afraid, suddenly you're predictable, and then you eat dirt.

[@NiGHTSnoob]

That's a very excellent point. The health and meter economy in a grappler match is fundamentally very different from any other playstyle. In other matches if you have the advantage in health and meter, and have the opponent in the corner, you are definitively in the lead and in control of the fight. With a grappler you can be at 80% and have a super stocked and they can be at 25%, but if they get the spacing and punish they need it's all out the window. They play around the physical field state more than the state of the bars in the HUD. This is unintutive to people used to seeing a health bar and super stock as an objective sign of being in an advantageous position so to them it feels cheap and they hate it.

[@ryangoldstrich7334]

I don't generally enjoy playing as grapplers but to be honest I feel like a lot of the people who hate them are just rushdown purists who can't comprehend that the rushdown archetype should have a counter.

[@youngsinatra1]

Used to hate grapplers and would go out of my way to make them feel the salt. Then i picked up Kotal in MK11(decent scoop), Then learned Vice in KOF(even more scoop), Then Mika in SFV (omega scoops) As they say, you either die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain...

[@javonbatiste5984]

Hell Yeah you ever played Kotal Kahn in MKX with the Sun God variation?? Ima Kotal Kahn dude myself

[@quicoboy]

...scoopa!...Hagendaz, sucka!...

[@Thightanic]

Grapplers are some of my favorite characters. My first character in street fighter was zangief, and I think I received more hatemail overall by playing zangief than any other game I've ever played

[@gershizzle7914]

Zangief, Pot, and any other grabber: "Why do you hate us?" The FCG: *_Yes._*

[@heavylobster4339]

People hate grapplers because they can be in control of the match most of the time but then it all comes crumbling down when they get in and do stupid damage. It's not unfair but it feels unfair.

[@thebrutalizer7353]

"You may block me on Twitter.....but you can NEVER block the CMD.Grab!" Let them hate as long as they fear! We will rise above any nerf the throw at us and throw it right back in there faces!

[@dropkickpherby6994]

I dislike grapplers because they force me to acknowledge my shortcomings... They are the divorce attorney breaking down why you truly only deserve 50% custody of the kids. As a hopeful Sol/Zato-or-I-no main, Potempkin, let me have this.

[@melvinshine9841]

I think part of it might be the way grapplers can force you to play. In 2D games, the prospect of losing 40% or more of one move because you were in range of a jab can make someone play "scared" or "lame", by doing everything they can to not be in grab range. Even in Tekken where almost every command grab and chain grab can be broken, characters like King can drive you nuts, especially if you're a beginner and come across a King who practiced throws and nothing else. Don't duck, you get grabbed and lose anywhere from 35 to 75%. Duck, and you eat a hopkick and lose a bunch of health anyway. When you don't know any better, it feels like King just wins regardless of what you do.

[@iansundahl4325]

I think the big thing with grapplers, such as king in tekken, or Potemkin, they have throws that are pretty much 50/50s, you have to guess the option and if you get it wrong that’s half of your health bar gone instantly, I think it’s frustrating when you don’t know how to break the throws

[@alfredoguzman6269]

To me, its not even the ENTIRE archetype people despise. Its specifically two moves the "big bad wolves" so often have. The "command grab special that does an entire combo's worth of damage that can't be blocked nor even teched like normal grabs and comes out too fast to react" and the "super that functions similar to the aformentioned command grab, but does even MORE damage and does disproportionately higher damge compared to other supers". Anytime I hear someone complain about a "grappler" its almost ALWAYS one with both the aformentioned moves(Zangief, Potemkin, Red Tager, for example). There are other grapplers that do multiple, moderately damaging command grabs in succesion(chaingrabs) and unless they can do an infinite from their grabs, they usually get a free pass.

[@prime98k4]

This. I usually play shotos (because is the easiest archetype that you can adapt in a game) but for Tekken i play King and never felt any hate towards him or even characters like R-Mika or Shermie. Is more like the "10 foot hyper-strong" stereotype that easily take half your lifebar and if the game isn't that refined can spam that move endlessly. Grapplers need to evolve in better tech and no just being the "Big ass guy that is a tank made of flesh"

[@Yadadameanfool]

@@prime98k4 well look at jax and soloman grundy from netherrealm studios they have strong command grabs and mix which i really do enjoy the feel of

[@EmptyTenementSpirit]

Chaingrapplers in some way can still evoke that immense frustration though, they're usually balanced out by having you need to guess/recognize the moves and input the tech accordingly, at least that's how Tekken has done them. Those grapplers also usually have a much more "functional" kit, whereas grapplers such as Zangief, Pot, Iron Tager, etc, have big limitations imposed on them for their damage potential. I don't particularly think grapplers of this type are badly designed or broken, and I somewhat enjoy them, but I don't really see why they're so massively hated either.

[@alanauelia7526]

Grapplers wouldn't be so hated if they didnt a full combo with super damage on a simple quarter back button grab

[@DVictor23]

@@alanauelia7526 the things is, they're slow and need to be very close for that... So if you can't prevent the move, it's on you.

[@Eriolp]

Oh boy don't let Jiyuna and Co. see this, lmao.

[@Rooflemonger]

video made due to the fact so many FGC talking heads slandering grapplers lately. The fear in their hearts has not gone unnoticed.

[@Eriolp]

@@Rooflemonger Preach.

[@xidjav1836]

@@Rooflemonger like you said they just felt stupid for getting command grab, that's why they hate them

[@Rooflemonger]

@@xidjav1836 well then if you felt smart, you would not get command grabbed. So maybe its time for them to smarten up!!!

[@I_recommend_suicide]

Yeah I know it's mostly memes but it's still annoying when people like leffen say shit like "grapplers should always be low tier, games aren't fun when grapplers are viable" and some proportion of the viewbase unironically believes it, probably fills and fills out the arcsys survey with salty tears still in their eyes

[@yellowbelt]

I'd say its due to the fact grapplers make people feel helpless. You get stuck in animation, that depending on the game feels like its comes out no where. Then on top of that again depending on the game that is 1/5 of your health or more gone. Then on top again depending the game when your ignorant they can just do this over and over again with no recourse.

[@joncliffmckinley5868]

Sounds like good combos with Oki to me..

[@yellowbelt]

@@joncliffmckinley5868 I see the wisdom in your words

[@zero123alpha6]

@@joncliffmckinley5868 oki at least gives you a chance to think about blocking. Plus you have options like pushblocking/burst/mashing

[@joncliffmckinley5868]

@@zero123alpha6 there's a tool called neutral jump which punishes command grabs in most every fighting game. Backdash is a thing. Yall act like grab oki is some arcane science when you've got the same number of options in most games and cases. And a smart grappler doesn't even go for the grab most of the time - you lure the opponent to blocking with strikes.. Kinda like a rush down character hitting you w high-low 50/50, and conditioning you to block one way or another.

[@zero123alpha6]

@@joncliffmckinley5868 1) Are grapplers smart? Also 2(it's pretty hard to neutral jump or backdash on wakeup if your opponent is already doing the grab. For neutral jump, all you have to do is see what the opponent does after being grabbed (which is easier for grapplers since they have more hp) and anti-air grab. Or delay the grab to cover backdash. Plus, that grab isn't coming in from upclose, its coming if from like a step or 2 away, so there's almost always that threat in the corner.

[@TheRealDustinNunn]

Fun facts: In 2D fighting games, there is no way out of grapple moves. But in 3D fighting games, you can escape grapple moves, depending on your escape inputs.

[@majora90to5]

for me the thing is "oh I blocked and lost 40% of my health, I will try and attack them. oh I hit them with my attack but they have armor on their moves. maybe i'll jump. oh they grabbed me out of the air from the ground. i guess i'll just die".

[@Neverleterlun]

True grapplers have no respect for themselves, God, their moms, their opponents, laws of nature, or anything good for the earth. Your right ruffledaddy. We jus slamma jamma

[@joshgutteridge2909]

Grapplers: I see no god up here except me.

[@splunj4462]

Wanna see me spd when I’m negative? Wanna see me do it again?

[@N1k0SP]

Ironically Grapplers are lowkey the most honest archetype in fighting games

[@jasonelbowran4l]

Why have morality when we thrive better when there's a lack of it?

[@jasonelbowran4l]

@@N1k0SP yeah keep telling them the lies. We need the propaganda!

[@jasonelbowran4l]

As a honorable mention, shout out to Snakeeyez who took out a whole team of killers in a team battle in SF4...with Zangief (RIP Green Hand)...AFTER his other team mates got eliminated and he was the only one left...

[@Steelgrey666]

Snakeeyez is an insane grappler player lol

[@secretagent6926]

As someone who's newer to fighting games, I remember the first time I fought a grappler I thought where is the counter play cant block anything lol

[@takohma1056]

People have lazy defense. They think all they should do is hold down back lol.

[@quicoboy]

...you better watch out, you better watch out, you better watch out, you better wa-...KO!...

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Ikr?

[@greenswamponion7330]

Usf4 Hugo was scary asf. That move when he runs at you with armor and lariats you is terrifying. I'm just always scared of grapplers they can delete your health bar so fast and always feel like this hulking unstoppable monster when you fight them.

[@BloodSportA2]

Grapplers to any other archetypes trying to use throws on them: "Ahhh, you think grabs are your ally? You merely adopted the grab. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't even use combos until I was already a man." Real talk, though, I think grapplers are the boss/gatekeep characters of a game's early life or a new player's early experience, since grapplers can get big damage quickly when the other guy is still figuring out their different combos and escape options.

[@FastJohn443]

I have a different experience. One of the first fighting games I've ever played is SF2 Hyper Fightering on an emulator during 2019 (I just wanted to dip my toes into a fighting game) and one of my first ai opponents was Zangief. Ya I was fighting an ai opponent but for someone who doesn't know how fighting games work Zangief was the perfect opponent to face of against because there is one simple rule to keep in mind. DONT LET HIM GET CLOSE TO YOU unlike other characters like Ryu, E. Honda, Blanka, etc who have special moves I would have a hard time understanding with all their weird fireballs, shoryuken, and charge motions I have to keep in mind.

[@syrelian]

@@FastJohn443 If the Gief touchs you, you die, nowhere is this more true then SF2 AI, which cheats, shaves off start up frames, and for the system grabs that have characters pummel, can cheat out possibly over 80% of your HP on one grab

[@FastJohn443]

@@syrelian Even tho the AI is cheating it doesn't ruin the fun of the game and the rule still stands, "keep him away so that he doesn't do a lot of damage". You don't deal with fireballs, shoryukens, or the opponents charge motion inputs.

[@jamthatruth4174]

I can’t speak for everyone but my short answer is simply some SFIV ptsd with Zangief 😂

[@joshgutteridge2909]

First time I tried sf4 I went straight to arcade mode on medium thinking I was gonna beat it with ryu. Zangeif came and put me in my place real quick🤣

[@mikekazz5353]

"Get ready for the red cyclone"

[@jamthatruth4174]

@@joshgutteridge2909 SAME that’s why I hated him for the longest time 😂

[@michiganjack1337]

That SPD jab grab range 🤕

[@WindHashira]

Imagine someone with PTSD using Zangief?!! 🤕

[@Smellerzerker]

I have immense respect for anyone willing to play a grappler, a lot of grapplers have tough times getting in and I think if you let them get in, you only have yourself to blame

[@junglesona5151]

For me personally, the disdain I have for grapplers is a combination of the factors that: they tend to have the largest health pools along with some of the highest damage per move ratio. 1 throw from the grappler equals about 1 combo from my character. It's the idea that I have to play this match up extremely carefully or else I die in about 3 throws. Very few archetypes make you regret a single mistake as hard as a grappler. It's that feeling when you're playing cautious and slowly poking the grappler down for about 20 seconds and the he lands a throw on you and the life bars are back to even that really kills me inside

[@leper763]

that shit is soo fucking lame, they shoudl never really be good except in kof when they are not fully a grappler

[@TheLegend-oy2sg]

See that’s what makes grapplers so much fun, getting zoned out for 20 seconds to pull it back with one good read is incredible. On the flip side I really enjoy fighting grapplers, I love zoning characters so it’s a final exam of my evasive skills and how well I can weave into my own combos.

[@alexanderchipman9571]

Personally, I'd rather die to three command grabs, as that way it's over, than watch you hit me for 20 seconds as I'm in your combo, waiting for you to end the combo. Both are the same effective thing, one just feels better to some individuals than others.

[@caffeineiv4335]

This is the mental problem. You think you are playing well, that a round is playing safe without consequences. Grapplers are the consequence. You make mistakes and you get punished. There is someone controlling the grappler, knowing you should beat them. Then you don't and you don't like that. This is the way of the grappler.

[@coomcharger6105]

Yeah, but then there's the otherside where they face a zonner and they get camped out for the entire round, it's so boring to me, and land a grab feels so good

[@CiccioImberlicchio]

Everytime i play vs a Grappler i'm scared because i know i'll have to play perfectly, one mistake will be fatal and all my work will be useless because he can even the damage i do with a single grapple into a mixup. I know grapplers most of the time are toward the lowest tier but the thing is, i suck at videogames, especially fighting games, tiers do not matter for me, the sad truth is that i suck and i'll always will and grapplers are there to remind it to me. Always hated them and i always will, but i'll mostly hate how they remind me that i'll always be a scrub and that my chances of gitting gud are low.

[@theturtle4423]

Me : Wow ! Finally potemkin isn't trash tier Arcsys : Yeah, about that...

[@panache2521]

Don't even get me started

[@GoSpawn_]

Hes still godlike just a tone downed God

[@으아아-x2q]

I don't understand why people complain about nerfing Potemkin in strive. He and Ramlethal were the best characters in the game.

[@GoSpawn_]

@@으아아-x2q you just answered your own question

[@vulbepic]

Potemkin is pretty good in ACR, though ironically I enjoy him more in Rev 2

[@prof.laytonfan764]

I feel like KOF helped me like grapplers a lot more. The grapplers in those games are some of my favorite characters in the whole series.

[@Rooflemonger]

Yeah a KoF grappler is absolutely very different in style than the usual. They can be small and fast(vice, shermie), on top of the usual big and slow.

[@joncliffmckinley5868]

@@Rooflemonger we need El Fuerte back

[@rensten4893]

@@joncliffmckinley5868 He had a bad balance technique though...

[@joncliffmckinley5868]

@@rensten4893 what technique you mean?

[@rensten4893]

@@joncliffmckinley5868 He needs a better gameplay style than once built around knock downs. No OTG techniques, no real pressure tools, he is basically a one trick pony that needs more than a difficult infinite and hard knock downs to be competitive.

[@PriceAintRight]

I love grapplers and I love watching them. Folk wanting them nerfed is hilarious. It usually means you don't know how to play against them. They usually lack the tools other characters have so they have to work harder and think.

[@rohansensei5708]

“Work harder and think” you mean spam one move and win? I don’t want to watch an 10 hour documentary to have a chance against them

[@zyro4863]

@@rohansensei5708 git gud

[@HashTheGrappler]

@@rohansensei5708 oof @ScrubQuotesX

[@ev5837]

@@rohansensei5708 homie you got that pot buster ptsd

[@yakatsusensei325]

@@rohansensei5708 I Can Feel The Salt. Feel The Glue Scrub

[@MagillanicaLouM]

"ppl hate grapplers" *Shows Vice on screen* Me: oh no, not you my sweet Mamacita, nothing but love between us

[@The_Meev]

I just really like the look of command grabs. Just picking them up off the ground and absolutely obliterating them is super satisfying whether it's an actual command grab or just a hit grab. Having them be unlockable and do absurd damage so I can scare my opponent is just the cherry on top >:)

[@dontbecomelgbt]

If all Grapplers in fighting games were girls, no one will hate them. 😂😂😂😂😂 Example : shermie from KOF.

[@deice3]

I think there might be a bit of this. Almost always the grappler is also big bulky dumdum stereotype, which is the least appealing for me. Watching the Shermie trailer made me think, maybe paint doesn't taste all that bad after all?

[@M1ikey]

“Lol sure” - a r.Mika player

[@blackicebrand7142]

my friend hates my Tina doa 6

[@Kami_Jojo]

*Laughs in SkullGirls*

[@Aku_158]

@@Kami_Jojo Cerebella power

[@ismaelflores4944]

By far my favorite archetype ever since I started playing fighting games. They've never been really been the best in tier list. However, they help players with poor combo execution like me, I just have to determine if I can grab or not. They just click with me.

[@Rooflemonger]

That too. Its rare for a grappler to be combo heavy and many people who don't like combos as much find their home in the grappler.

[@nothingimportanthere2082]

I like Terminator in MK11. He’s really simple, but effective.

[@DoodlesD]

THIS is why I love grapplers! I from a personal standpoint don't like them much, HOWEVER this kind of character means my fighting game friend, who enjoys fighting games but doesn't like to train learning large combos, can still have fun fighting me with my big ol combo strings :D

[@marsupialmole3926]

The only games where I don't play grapplers are Blazblue and Samsho. Because in Blazblue Haku-Men exists, and in SamSho EVERY character plays like how I like to play. It's not about execution, it's about getting inside your opponents mind and waiting for them to screw up, and then you eat their entire lifebar for it

[@RavenShield88]

@@Rooflemonger This!!!! I fit this perfectly lol. I can do combos, but sometimes in stressful situations, the combo can be dropped. Command grabs on the other hand, that lands and that does about the same of a good combo or more. I think about it like this...heavy combo characters are like machine gun bullets....command grabs are like up close shotgun blasts or grenade launchers/rockets being shot a point blank lmao

[@drainzerg8626]

"Oh,so you're blocking?even though i have the option to select from my vast array of grabs you still block"

[@wisdomcjs250]

For me facing the grappler character is a similar experience to facing the super complex/hard to master character. You'll play against them in like 5% of your matches and be forced to play this game you're not used to and don't really understand. When you lose to them you often get destroyed because they know what they're doing well and you don't have a clue. Yet you don't face them enough to train for it lol, so when they're more popular and strong people just rage

[@slaphappy6705]

How to spot a grappler player: they never shut up about how honest grapplers are and how all grappler players are the coolest

[@tool3142]

"Grapplers are easy to counter bro, just jump" I proceed to jump amd get antiair command grab into oblivion.

[@NSFSponsor]

Grapplers are the most honest. No projectiles, no big combos, easy to hit, slow moves, you rushdown players wouldn't understand.

[@Scragg-]

@@NSFSponsor HALF YOUR LIFE IN ONE HIT, pot has flick and floating screen projectiles, and he has heavenly

[@NSFSponsor]

@@Scragg- Tbf that's strive damage. But flick does not go full screen, and is a projectile reversal. That's like saying gief can't have green hand, he could use some type of anti zoning tool.

[@Scragg-]

@@NSFSponsor you just said no projectiles, he has projectiles. And it’s not just strive damage play ac+r it’s not much less damage

[@treyhyde1]

So I'm someone that hates playing against grapplers and the reason why is two fold. One you already talked about, they can make a million mistakes and win off of one grab into a setup. The other, bigger reason IMO is because you have to play completely different against a grappler in a way I don't find particularly fun.

[@maxpflughoeft6806]

First off, a grappler can't make "a million mistakes" relative to other archetypes. They will, at most, have 30% more health than the average character, usually 10 or 20%. It can be a lot of stray hits, but its at most one extra combo. I always hear people say "you have to play completely differently" when fighting grapplers, but what do you actually mean by that? Neutral is the same, in fact its easier on a lot of characters because a grappler's tools in neutral are almost always risky, or if they are low risk, they don't reward much. Defense isn't very different either, its a 50/50, but instead of like a left/right or a high/low, the emphasis is on block/ throw, something every character in the game has as a mixup. Is it when you attack a grappler on offense? Because if you block next to them when you're minus you can get thrown?

[@treyhyde1]

Bro, I said I disliked playing against them. I didn't say anything bad about the archetype. Chill. I understand their necessity to fighting games and I welcome the archetype. Doesn't mean I ever have to enjoy the experience.

[@Skeloleks811]

I agree. People also talk smack about rushdown characters like they don't have to take any risks either. The risk/reward just feels so skewed when you're fighting against an archetype that often has the highest health in the game and is designed around making you guess. I understand that grapplers aren't cheap, but I don't have to pretend they're fun to play against either.

[@limeman7553]

You just don’t like losing to low tiers 😎

[@laegu5430]

The grappler is a humble warrior, I respect and fear their wrath

[@granlobo28]

I love grapplers, is an enjoyable play style and very rewarding in therms of how hard is to beat a fast character. Why somebody will hate grapplers? They hug you, they give you love, and then, they beat the crap out of you, all very close and very personal.

[@ShepWinsAgain]

You really hit the nail on the head with the point where it seems like they don't have to work as hard. It's obviously not always true, grapplers are slow so they can generally get zoned out by lots of characters. I super respect Waldstein in Under Night, partially because it's abundantly clear how hard he's working for that damage.

[@OnmyoKrow]

I love grapplers for these reasons listed! I'm not sure how to feel about the death of "zoners" but I suppose you can have mid-range and far-range projectile based control without that being your only gameplan. Z-Broly zoning is honestly genius design as it's not really that much damage but it's designed to pester the opponent into making the mistakes you want to capitalize on. I guess this humiliation aspect of the grappler generates more ire than simply guessing wrong in a blockstring.

[@Sensational_Kong]

I’ve had my butt whooped by grapplers and am far from the best at playing with them, but I just love’em! To me they are synonymous with fighting games and usually one of the most fun to play characters in any given game.

[@jasonelbowran4l]

Yeah I will admit..soo satisfying playing grapplers...till you have to play against them yourself.. it never any fun when the rabbit has the gun. Lol

[@mohammedosman4902]

love it when the grapplers win. Watching players like Itazan and Kichipa etc , am always pulling for them

[@somenewb9050]

I play grapplers but I think I have an idea. When your one and only option is to dodge, it’s fairly easy to force situations where your opponent just can’t or won’t dodge. Granted in some games you can beat Grabs with normal moves but still

[@Bolomoto]

playing a grappler is like when you play a delayed prank on someone. You're not there to see their reaction but knowing they are having that scared shamed reaction is all you need to feel satisfied with what you've done

[@UnusuallyLargeCrab]

brb buffering a command throw

[@sammy1552]

No matter what happens, I’ll always play grapplers. Also, I’d pay good money to see T Hawk in SFV.

[@zerobeat032]

I love grapplers lol... mainly because I have SHIT combo execution skills. I'm soooo bad at combos in a lot of causes. so I like grapplers because it's more about me learning other stuff than combos. I have to learn when to combo (usually small bnb's) and when to grab. I can concentrate on other aspects of execution when I play with grapplers.

[@idontcare3315]

What I hate is how developers always nerf grapplers.

[@joncliffmckinley5868]

Preach. Them nerfing LaDiva in Granblue made me so sad

[@justblake6975]

@@joncliffmckinley5868 tht shit hurt

[@jerry4040]

Zangief getting his EX spd nerfed still hurts

[@joncliffmckinley5868]

Nevermind green hand 😭

[@andrewwestfall65]

I think a big issue is that grapplers tend to be explosive damage. Both because they'll do one grab that does as much as someone else's combo so it's a big chunk all at once, but also because grapplers want you in a specific area and once you're there you are always in a state of danger. Since they can swing momentum so quickly, it can feel like they are always near victory. So it feels like you can be winning for 30 seconds and then they get one throw and now they got the victory in 5 seconds when the reality was that they were fighting like hell to get into range.

[@lutherwalker1598]

I love fighting grappler when they miss and they eat a nice long game ending combo😂

[@marche800]

Grapplers are the most fun archetype. People hate them because they don't know how to deal with them. They make people uncomfortable because they know if they mess up once it could cost you half you life. They don't realize how hard it usually is to get that happen.

[@OdelyxRa]

I only find trouble with this statement because most grapplers can and will turtle constantly in a blockstring, only to break free with a command grab that is not only impossible to tech, but also can't be stuffed with a button, or throw out a move that has super armor and completely screw over the corner pressure that you were trying to keep them in. Grapplers get to block, you don't, the moment you throw out a button to keep them away, your limb hets command grabbed. You empty jumped to avoid the command grab? Better hope they don't have an air grab or an armor move that can stuff your j button and lead to ridiculous damage. Being forced to chip away at a grappler while sweating bullets the entire time while in comparison the grappler can shut you down multiple different ways and you literally can't do anything about it. The ball is literally in the grappler's court from the character select screen.

[@ShivaM-dc4xe]

Proud grappler main. I started using grapplers because I am not great with rushdown and panic when people come close while zoning. + I am bad at combos :/ I started using grapplers and then I realised they are more about mind games than just landing the grab. I nowadays rarely grab in a match. It is more fun playing this way :D

[@muffinxcancer]

This channel is one of the highest quality on KZbin for fighters. I just started on gg strive as my first heavy fighting game (I played smash ultimate but not much) and you've helped me so much on learning about core mechanics of fighting games, history and the competitive scene. Thx so much!

[@maximilian_ggdas]

It doesn't help that seeing that I am going up against a Potemkin makes me immediately go "Oh Fuck". Like, I start the game somewhat pre-tilted already. I usually start out by trying to play a very methodical keep-away game. If that doesn't work I rush down like a madman, which works a surprising amount of the time. They are not used to people trying that.

[@CesarGonzalez-bw2hz]

Oh absolutely. Axl and Gio in Strive are still my biggest hurdles for that exact reason.

[@BigDaddy-hz4mh]

@@CesarGonzalez-bw2hz I have a friend who mains baiken, but they're sides are ramlethal giovanna and I already got him pre tilt after the first grab so if he is losing he swaps and from what I can tell you is to spam the shit out of 6p and use heavenly to get out of corners and 6p into buster if it connects is usually how I deal with gio, but for ramlethal, may God be on your side

[@Mantafirefly]

To play against most characters, your defensive options are largely the same, you block lows, you block overheads, you block side switches and you might tech a throw or two, but the overall feel is similar when you are defending a Ryu to a Chun Li . To play against a grappler you have to learn to *defend* yourself differently, since blocking now needs to be mixed in with jumpouts, feints etc... No other archetype really makes you have to change the way you use universal mechanics like that.

[@joncliffmckinley5868]

Disagree. A good zoner will make you approach all of your defensive and movement options differently.

[@Mantafirefly]

@@joncliffmckinley5868 Movement, sure, but you're still just going to be blocking a lot, heck most zoners I can think of don't really even mix up much so your defensive instinct to block attacks works even better.

[@joncliffmckinley5868]

@@Mantafirefly you still block a lot vs a good grappler, while also using your jumps and dashes to avoid grabs. Kinda like high/low/unblockable zoning.

[@phdbot4483]

When I first was getting into fighting games, I didn't know how to defend against throws, so I've struggled against grapplers myself; however, I genuinely enjoyed playing big characters since childhood, so I would eventually understand the grappler and enjoy using armor moves to plow through those getting too aggresive and then grabbing foes once they start blocking, and inflict massive damage. I would then learn Astaroth in Soul Calibur and take pleasure into making others feel robbed by depleting half their health bar in a devastating 2-hit combo, or ringing them out! However, I've come to learn that many of them would be low tier because most of them are held back by their slow attacks and mobility, lack of ranged tools or defensive options, and bias against grapplers. Now it's sometimes hard for me to enjoy that feeling again, knowing that when grapplers perform even a little too well, they get nerfed by demand more than any other archetype. By playing the Grappler, I have understood both their strengths and weaknesses. They may have it easy when it comes to dishing out damage, but the hard part is actually getting to it compared to others. Don't just run into them, but instead make them come to you, so patience is key for both players in the match up. It's not impossible to defend against a grappler when they get too close, it's just instead of the High/Low/Crossup mix up, you have to learn to defend against the Strike/Grab/Anti-air Grab mix up, so now you have tech, jump, or don't jump to avoid getting dunked! Even now, I still eat throws regardless of archetype, but I'm still learning to tech normal throws or jumping over command grabs. Anyway, sorry about the massive wall of text. I just wanted to take the opportunity to share my story that went from fearing the big boys to looking up to them. I just wish others would appreciate them too so that they too can be allowed to be as good as a rushdown or zoner without as much prejudice as they have. Don't worry, I won't point and laugh at you as long as you're nice, but instead I'll give you a great big hug! ^u^

[@Manlygenius101]

Agreed. Zoning characters are essentially gone. That being said. I don't miss zoning characters like Deathstroke 🙄 lol

[@frothyslider253]

Are ferry dhalsim poison dizzy and axl not zoners?

[@Manlygenius101]

@@frothyslider253 easier to get past opposed to Deathstroke imo

[@frothyslider253]

@@Manlygenius101 I think that’s more about NRS being bad at game design

[@Manlygenius101]

@@frothyslider253 could be, on the bright side ferry, dhalsim, ect have hotboxes on their tools. Unlike Deathstroke, which that character hurts my soul lol

[@justblake6975]

@Leith Aziz PAGY nawh see Sim and ferry are both zoners the thing is there are 2 major types of zoners. The projectile based like guile and dizzy And the limb based which is where axl ferry and sim fit. They both have the same plan jus a twist on how its done.

[@ChickenCast100]

I tried to wake up at 7pm but Potemkin commandgrabbed me on wakeup for the 3rd time in a row

[@Reviewed2Death]

2:11 it's as if Capcom heard this remark about how other characters can do "elegant combos" to heart and decided to make Manon-who managed to make the art of breaking you in two pieces into a graceful performance. Personal fav grappler...now if only her fireball invincible spin had a few more active frames (or if the invincibility started a bit earlier).

[@oscar1012]

... Bowser's Side B next to the ledge, if I'm going down, I'm taking you with me

[@Ephlaght]

Ah! A fellow Up-B degenerate!

[@erazormk7199]

I respect people who uses grapplers characters. Because like every fighting game characters archetypes it comes with experience and game knowledge. Grapplers to me are very honest characters archetype because the players have to use character knowledge and game mechanics. I used grapplers to learn the hardcore aspects like footsie, super block or many other game mechanics. I mean there are a few grapplers that breaks the mold of big characters that do a crap tons of damage. Look at El Fuerte SF4 and El Blaze VF. They do little damage but overwhelmed the opponents with their speed and got grapple like moves. Grapplers hate is getting outta of hands.

[@IXIZeno]

For me, it's just the extra health and the fact that they're allowed and even pushed to play so sloppy. That and the fact that, if they're close at any frame advantage, you just have to make a big guess. It feels like they I stop playing a fg and start playing dice

[@monaco0042]

How is that fair though ?rush down characters mostly put you in an infinite rps in most games.I don’t see why grapplers get hate for doing the same thing.

[@N1k0SP]

Grapplers need more health as compensation for the struggle to "get in" its all by design.

[@nothingimportanthere2082]

Robocop is kind of scary in MK11 for this reason, but he’s more of a zoned with really good grabs.

[@Keokithederp]

As one of my favorite grappler players once said "What you press? WHY'D YOU PRESS IT?!" *chokeslams opponent*

[@A2ZOMG]

I think most reasonable people already understand grappler designs tend to be really extreme in general. I think though what's less appreciated is the number of ridiculously smart players who choose to be dedicated grappler mains. And naturally you'd have to know a lot about the game to not mindlessly get clipped by projectiles, zoning in general, and other higher mobility mixups.

[@abhishekjadli7569]

It hurts my chest when my matches get robbed by potemkins

[@roxersboxerss]

I think my favorite Jiyuna content is him being salty over grapplers.

[@X1erra]

Fantasy Strike player here. From my perspective, a Grappler (Rook) helped me learn how to zone properly, react to their every move, and when they get close, I have to guess (Jump to avoid command grab, or do nothing to Yomi Counter a normal throw) or end up in a cycle. You don't want to guess in the first place, so you fight to keep them away until they fall. Hard hitting, long range characters (Onimaru) are also scrub killers there, requiring you to take advantage of their long start-up to react correctly.

[@donsaul]

When I get older, I want to be like Zangief

[@HeavyShores]

The reason why people hate grapplers is because nobody can handle 287 pounds of folded steel and sex appeal