GRAVEL in the corner? How to deal with it on a motorcycle...and more

[@ken2tou]

Yup. Done it many times riding in the mountains. You never know what is just around the corner. In the early 2000s I knew of a MSF instructor who totaled two Gold Wings riding fast in the southern Oregon mountains. Both times he rounded a blind corner very fast and hit large rocks, sending him and the bikes down the slope. Luckily, he wasn’t hurt too bad, given his gear. But the bikes weren’t so lucky. Never assume the road is clear if you cannot see it. In that case, the rocks had rolled into the road over night and had not been cleared yet. I’ve ridden with many who ride aggressively on roads such as this. I like to do it too, but only after making sure the asphalt is clear of debris. Never assume. Be sure.

[@traviscallaway9675]

I would add, that even if you aren't using the front brake to the end of the stop, keep it covered. Multiple times I've had to put my right foot down due to wind or a passenger moving around. Kinda handy to maintain the stop with the front brake when on an incline/decline. I'm short legged so maybe more of a problem with my body, but never a bad idea having the front brake covered.

[@SmokeyA55]

Excellent teaching 🦾💯

[@robertmann6890]

I personally use engine breaking along with my front and rear brakes. Using the rear brake for the last 5 mph. Which I got from one of your videos. It has given me much better balance and control coming to a stop.

[@chickenfriedrice2932]

Always appreciate you sharing your wisdom and experience Sir. You have helped me become a better and safer rider over time. Keep up the great work!

[@tvalecic]

Thank you from Croatia - Europe 😀 edit - did not eaven noticed warning situation 😀

[@Big_DT]

My front brake is covered 100% of the time. I learned this, along with trail braking, in Yamaha ChampSchool. It makes for much better control, read safety, and builds confidence. IMO, all riders need to learn how to use their right hand to properly control the motorcycle. Depending on the bike, the front brake has 70%+of the stopping power and you need to learn how to use it safely/effectively.

[@donmoore481]

Another unmentioned benefit of rear breaking for the last few feet at an intersection. In my area the highway maintenance folks paint a white stop line to show you where the limit of your stopping should be. These painted or sometimes rubber stripes can be extremely slippery when wet. By using the rear braking you can eliminate or reduce another slippery event as you complete your stop.

[@marsoelflaco5722]

I like learning about motorcycles.😊

[@jaydeering9092]

I really enjoy your channel. Very informative. My kids are riding now too and I pass all of your knowledge over to them.

[@nighttrainist]

Now that riding season is upon us, up north, I'm glad to have your input. I took about a 100-mile rip today, and it was great! Late May only comes to Iowa once a year.

[@TimCopsey-d6q]

Enjoy your perspective, knowledge and expertise. Your insights have enhanced my riding experience and improved my skills. Thank you

[@joelstrickland8890]

MC rider I appreciate you keeping us safe and informed.

[@NanaRides]

I absolutely love your sense of humor! The part about the BBgun cracked me up.

[@MCrider]

Thanks Mona, I truly did notice it after I had shot and edited the video. Since I didn’t want to spend an hour reshooting the video…I spent two hours making a joke of it. 😂

[@theaustralianconundrum]

@@MCrider I have subscribed from Australia! I am 64 years of age and was wondering if you have a training video for people like me who have a long and or steep concrete driveway that leads to a rather short private side street. I don't get much visual warning from cars as they round the right hand corner. Should I be stopping on the crest of my drive or just ride on up and slow down with foot on right brake and looking left and right just ride the clutch until it drives me up and onto the flat road? Thank you sir!

[@johnmckinney8610]

I really like this format

[@brettcreech3490]

Thanks Kevin

[@SMKreitzer1968]

Thanks Kevin, really like the Q&A. God bless.

[@distancejunkiemonkey4491]

Perfect example of how the MSF style of riding leaves you hanging short of options. Verses a points of traction and upper body position positive riding technique. The rider has many more options and time to deal with mid corner loss of traction situations when utilizing a points of traction and upper body positive riding technique . When your trail breaking into the corner, even just slightly enough to have a small amount of weight on the front tire, it allows you to then more firmly use the brakes mid corner, because you don’t have to reestablish the weight on the front end of the motorcycle. Additionally, if you’re using an upper body positive position it also allows you to add more body position to the inside of the motorcycle, and actually push the motorcycle more upright, and still continue the same radius of turn. The MSF technique described in the video requires the rider to change the motorcycle's direction three times in a single curve. What also has to change three times before the mc's directions is changed?...Your vision, point of visual focus. The MSF response requires three changes of vision, lean angle, and counter steering. The response I describe only requires the rider to adjust speed and lean angle. Your vision remains the same. The mc's direction remains the same. Adjusting lean angle, to maintain or reduce radius, is a very subtle input compared to bringing the bike completely upright. My response requires the rider to continue doing what's natural and ingrained, looking through the corner and being smooth. it does not require abrupt/ quick movements. Additionally each movement takes time. Time to acquire vision for point of direction, time to change direction, etc.. This all quickly adds up, and due to the shear amount of extra steps it overly extends and complicates a stressful situation. It’s unrealistic to think you’re gonna stand the bike up and let it coast through that gravel mid corner and then pull off a real aggressive, counter steer maneuver at the very last foot of roadway, to keep from going off the roadway. Unless you often practice this. Coming from a background of high risk environment operations I can absolutely tell you that, unless you train something, you will absolutely not execute it in the real world, to any precision or even resemblance of the goal. Using the tactics advised in this video is impractical, because you’re never ever going to practice this. You’re never ever gonna just ride into a corner ,that’s clear and dry, stand the bike up, pull the clutch in, let it coast straight, and at the very last second of roadway, flick it really hard to go through the corner, this is never going to be practiced in the real world. Using a points of traction and body positive riding technique allows you to practice those techniques in every corner you ride your motorcycle. Every corner you are trail breaking, every corner your upper body is positively to the inside of the motorcycle for the turn, now, when you see that loss of traction situation arise, you just need to add a little more body position stand the bike up and continue using the brakes smoothly, while you’re still on the clear and dry surface and then you can smoothly come off the brakes as you approach and enter into the loss of traction surface. It’s just a continuation of what you’ve been doing every turn you ride. This technique also has significantly less steps, which greatly reduces the time and geographical space need to go through the steps. Now you tell me which rider is going to have the best possibility of executing the proper techniques to get through that gravel mid corner. The one that actually practices the techniques in every corner, and requires significantly less movements and time? Or the one who just thinks about what he’s gonna do, using a complicated multi step technique, in hopes to do it when the time comes? Ride with a purpose!

[@defaultuser3410]

On the subject of finishing a stop with the rear brake: I agree, it works well, but I try to trail off the front brake, do a "chauffeur stop", like you do with a car, it can make the stop smooth as well, though it takes more practice.

[@johnnylightning1491]

I don't understand why you are supposed to hold the clutch in while you downshift coming to a stop. I've always downshifted and let the clutch out so I'm braking with the engine and not the brakes. I've done this in, cars, trucks and motorcycles. Is there some reason I shouldn't do this? Keep the good stuff coming Kevin.

[@rickdisanto9607]

As always I appreciate your videos and advice. I have to admit I am surprised it is recommended to pull in the clutch when cornering through gravel or coming to a stop. IMO as soon as you pull in the clutch you loose some control of your motorcycle. I use my throttle to balance and control the motorcycle through turns and use engine braking when coming to a stop. I will admit, until your recommendation to let off the front brake at the end of the stop I had not tried it and it does really make a difference. I will take your advice and try pulling in the clutch when in a turn and see how this feels, I just have a feeling I will feel a loss of control. Thanks for all your work to put together such great content.

[@ddekeno1]

Good advice!

[@erniecolussy1705]

Another great video. I would like to point out that these topics are all covered in the MSF BRC, except the BB gun warning. Most classes will not go into as much detail about the tires as the video did. But the MSF BRC includes riding. Just saying that if any of this is new or forgotten information to you a MSF BRC or similar beginners riding course is a good place to get or refresh this knowledge. It can be better than an experienced or intermediate riding course because those classes pretty much assume that you know and remember all this information and other bits of information.

[@chonkyb3134]

Thanks for the information!😊

[@martinj.groenewegen1791]

Bb gun alerts nice touch. Good and tough editing.

[@_skud]

thanks for the vid

[@TictacAddict1]

Love the strategies, Sir! Emergency alert: The rifle I'm holding in my avatar doesn't shoot BBs.

[@starkhalessi0000]

My first boyfriend has been riding since he was a toddler. Dirt bikes, 4 wheelers, crotch rockets, whatever. He’s an experienced rider. Same exit I was in an accident I mentioned in my other post. He got off at, cop was behind him, he had a passenger on with him, he caught gravel, and wiped out bad. They girl was flung like 40 ft. She had broken bones. My friend, was in serious shape, both arms mangled. The officer walked up, stepped on his bleeding arm and said he hoped he went to hell. He lost that arm. He was losing to much blood. He still rides today

[@boscodog4358]

What's up with with the bb gun? I didn't see one. As always good information.

[@urbanbshvac]

Heck yeah bud 👍

[@karlsievers4191]

not sure you'll see this - have you ever done a presentation on the real/true value of back protectors in a jacket? Aerostich Darien does not come with a back protector, it's extra $$, which makes me curious as to why a top line maker goes that way - thanks -

[@mikeskidmore6754]

I always let the clutch out and use engine braking .. after each downshift.. Hardly ever use my brakes under normal riding. At Tail of the Dragon I used my brakes a lot in order to slow down and set up my corners.

[@heybruh3274]

brakes are a lot cheaper than trans/ engine. But don’t take my word Big Dog…. go watch Canyon Chasers and learn something

[@mikeskidmore6754]

@@heybruh3274 When it comes to hot rodding cars in the early 1980's The GM Turbo 350 automatics didn't hold up very well .. So I ordered my new 1979 Z-28 Camaro with a Borg Warner T-10 close ratio trans. A wide ratio would have been better for drag racing with a lower first year. .. I replaced the T-10 with a Doug Nash 5 speed that has a way lower first Gear. You can down shift all day long for engine braking with a manual transmission .. but the slush box automatics wore their bans out if you manual downshifted them very much ..

[@TravisWienke]

When preparing to stop would it be better to down shift and use the engine to drain off speed as well as using the front and rear brake?

[@robertmann6890]

One thing I have struggled with in the past is a right hand turn on a busy road. For example 4 lane devided road. Your in the far right lane approaching the intersection. A car is close behind you doing 45 mph. You signal, slow, look , press and roll. Do you have any tips to make sure you don’t get hit from behind by an impatient driver? I have this situation frequently and the car tries to time me moving out of the way and comes way too close for comfort. What do you guys do for this situation?

[@ioanniskalathas1489]

What if we have to apply these technics on an electric motorcycle (no gearbox, no friction zone). What do you think of slow speed maneuvering/u-turning with those "motorcycles" where stability is obtained with hi revs, same in windy conditions. Thank you.

[@chris2790]

Wait, clutch in, no engine braking coming to a stop? Why would you want that unless maybe you have a shorter stopping distance?

[@T.C..]

Any tips on crossing cattle guards when it's on a corner? I had an experience the other day where I came around a corner and there was a cattle guard and I think I literally slid at least 6 to 8 inches sideways and it caused a little bit of a fishtail once I was over it..... And my heart was beating about 10 times faster!! Typically I try to straighten up if I'm on a curve just enough to go over the cattle guard but there was no time

[@mikeskidmore6754]

I ride my tries until the steel cords are showing .. Your Good Sports bike tires are a bit soft and only last about 6,500 miles..

[@regrcm]

Good video!! Didn't even see the BB gun! :)

[@Dogatemyhomework927]

Pretty fancy BB gun!!

[@aldolajak1267]

WARNING ! WARNING ! WARNING ! Kevin has a sense of humor.

[@dracphelan]

Only a BB Gun?! You need to replace that with something more effective.

[@constellations3756]

I like your style. i like your wisdom and insights. And your BB gun alert :-)

[@Cecil.]

Not exactly motorcycle question but may effect it. I noticed your one eye has a pupil that looks like there is no, or minimal, iris. Does that give you problems in bright light (daytime) riding?

[@MCrider]

My eyes are more sensitive to light. www.MCrider.com/eye

[@Cecil.]

@@MCrider Thanks for the response and link! I had the same issue because of a stroke 25 yrs ago but it corrected itself over several years. Actually God fixed it! Love your testimony!

[@fordresurrectionest9556]

Technically, you can lean the bike to full horizontal position. Whether you get up is a different story. 🤣🤣

[@noidreculse8906]

It’s a shame that you have to point out the bb gun to keep the bozos calm. If it was a Glock, it would be fine by me.

[@ronmeidlinger249]

I would like to think that no one watching MC Rider is s bozo.

[@joek81981]

My thing is kinda what what's his name said. I stopped riding for like 8 years because of sand I didn't even know was there. I didn't crash but I sh*t my nice, textile riding pants that was it for me. You just cannot expect there won't be sand in the street in Minnesota at every turn. I live in the south now and it doesn't seem to be a problem. We just have giant craters here. Cracks in the road, big enough to swallow a french bulldog. It looks like bombs went off in the streets in Kansas City. Wrecked alloys along the highway from being shattered on a interstate chasm. Its disgraceful, really - the shape of the roads in Missouri.

[@countryjoe3551]

Well, to be honest, Kansas City MO just sucks in general.

[@jonnya6107]

Mostly good advice, however, coasting ANY vehicle, and ESPECIALLY coasting mid-corner is a BIG no-no, particularly on a motorcycle. Pulling in the clutch fully disengaging the gearbox not only disconnects engine power AND engine braking from the driven wheels, but will also upset the suspension and can also alter lean angle and grip in the process. And now, while coasting, the rear wheel will not only lock more easily, because of the drag effect from the chain, sprockets, gearbox, and engine braking, but also now, re-engaging the clutch can be a very bad move indeed, especially at greater speeds and angles of lean. Letting out the clutch either too fast or at the incorrect throttle setting / lean angle can spell disaster of the worst kind. Sure if lady luck smiles on you that day, or you're of hero track level, you might get away with it once or twice, though playing around with drive-train engagement (just as with over zealous acceleration or brakes), especially mid corner is a very bad idea indeed. If done even SLIGHTLY badly, it WILL change the suspension loadings, which can then cause grip levels to diminish, lean angles to alter, unexpected or unforgiving rebound or damping action, and even what your "set" riding line was, to change, left or right. The knock on effect of all this is that the bike will suddenly feel and act very differently, as you take in and release the clutch. All or any single one of these things could cause the bike to run too wide or too tight in a turn, either or both front & rear wheels to lose traction, a tank-slap situation, a lowside crash, or a highside crash. All of these things may contribute to your daily cardio, but they are very bad for your wallet, your health and your continued ability to get out there on your bike and enjoy the ride. The difficulty level of riding a bucking, writhing, tank slapping motorcycle that's listing incorrectly and not going where you want it to rises exponentially, the greater the current lean angle, the more slippery the road surface (gravel being but one of many), or the higher the speed, amongst other reasons. Coasting is HIGHLY dangerous, don't do it, if ya wanna stay in control and out of the nearest ditch / lamp post / oncoming truck.

[@rickdisanto9607]

I have to agree, but I am going to try his advice.

[@MCrider]

The technique I use for braking is taught by the MSF. Not unsafe.