Cheap 8000w Reliable Electric Inverter, Full Load Test, Review

Update: You can purchase a similar 48 volt battery to the one I used in this video. The 48v modules are being sold at Batter Hookup. Here is an affiliate link: amzn.to/30zewG4
Part 2 Video testing the new updated version of 8000 watt inverter from Reliable Electric. This inverter outputs a pure sine wave, 120 volts AC. At 34 pounds it's light enough for mobile applications. I'm powering this inverter with my new 48 volt lithium battery that I made from a used Smart Fortwo EV car.
In the previous video I showed this inverter could handle power tools and compressor loads. Awesome! This video is dedicated to doing a full load test.
1. Can it reach 8000w?
2. How long can it stay there?
3. How hot does it get?
4. Do the batteries get hot?
In order to do a full load test I have wired in a sub-panel and electric heaters.
I've also tested the earlier version of this inverter, and it failed. That video is available here: • Cheap 8000w Reliable I...
This new version works way better than the first version. Reliable Electric has upped their game.
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Reliable Electric's E-mail about the live ground:
"And For the voltage , the voltage from Line to Ground and Neutral to Ground is not the true voltage, there is no correct from them.
This virtual voltage has no effect on the usage.
If you measure it during loading , it will be zero at that time.
So please feel free to use it ."
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This inverter is usually called HF, or high-frequency. That's because there is no massive transformer inside. Usually HF inverters can't handle large surge loads such as motors and compressors. So that's exactly what I used to test it!
Reliable Electric is also known as "WZRELB" I have seen it sold under both names.
Sometimes this inverter is available on Amazon, sometimes Ebay. The links sometimes change, sorry about that.
Link to inverter on Amazon, provided by Reliable: amzn.to/2SyjCfy
Hydraulic Crimping Tool: amzn.to/2YTd90p
Multi-meter with DC amp reading: (updated version) amzn.to/2Tm3TR0
Temperature Sensor: amzn.to/31uU6Lj
There are (6) 48 volt batteries all wired together in parallel. Each battery has it's own BMS board for safety. BMS stands for battery management system.
This lithium battery came out of a 2013 Smart Fortwo EV (electric vehicle). It will be used in my DIY Powerwall for back-up power if the grid goes down. Off-Grid.
Thanks for watching. If you would like to help support the channel please check out Patreon, or use an affiliate link. Thank you.
/ davidpoz
We can chat and share project pictures on facebook: / davidpozenergy
“As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.”
Inverter in video was provided by Reliable Electric.

[@stephtronix1811]

It was doing over 8000 Watts on the input side at 9:30 minutes. Lots of rating are taken from a specific test or measurement they decide, to meet the highest numbers to impress buyers. So at 7068 Watts, your input is at 8143 Watts. Its says its an 8000 Watts inverter it does not mean that it outputs 8000 Watts it's Max rating witch will be the input side will reach 8000 Watts. That means that at 8000 Watts with an 87% efficiency will deliver 7000 Watts of usable output power. Great Video keep up the good work!

[@alexandern8hgeg5e9]

@@Bainsworth , this means 8000w at the moment. watt is power ,which is energy / time at the moment. If you have "kilo watt hours" this is a energy. for example 8000w one our long is 8kwh or 8000*3600 joule

[@John-N797]

@Bainsworth All your electrical appliances are marked with their power consumption. For example if you check behind your TV there is a sticker showing the voltage either 120 or 220v and wattage maybe 160watts or so. Your iron box will be written maybe 1200watts or 2000w. Now to answer your question. An 8000watts inverter means that ideally you could hook up and connect all those appliances at the same time and so long as their total wattage is not above 8000watts, then the inverter would hold and continue working without any problem. Of course we are assuming that your battery bank will hold. So basically that is what the 8000watts stand for in this particular case. It has also been explained to us that we should in real life consider 85% of indicated wattage as the actual usable power! I hope this explains it! lastly there is no really dumb question (: Next time you will be explaining to someone else so it was worth asking!

[@Brokendiode]

@@alexandern8hgeg5e9 that went right over his head, not a very clear answer to someone that obviously doesn't have a very good understanding of Electrical theory! 😖

[@Brokendiode]

You are right, the lengths that manufacturer's or advertisers will go to just to sell a product. Prime example, shop vacuums go into Home depot or Lowes or any place that sells them, and look at the advertisement's on the verous brands 4.8 HP peek 5.6 HP peek 6.5 HP peek. So let's do a little math hear, 745.7 watts to the horse power, so 745.7 X 6.5 = 4,847 watts / 120 volts = 40.392 amps twice what you can draw from a 20 amp circuit and just about 2-1/2 times what you can draw from a 15 amp circuit, so how do they get away with claiming the 6.5 HP peek, it is based on the instantaneous inrush that occurs at the moment the switch closes and the motor is at a stand still, for just a few micro seconds it can see that much inrush current, if the source has enough backbone, in other words, a low enough resistance. This means absolutely nothing to have great the vacuum works or how much suction it has, and is there for a very deceptive way to build up their product and make it seem like something it is not. And I don't know if you have noticed that some of these companies that make the these batteries for charging your phone or tablet or some other device, even the largest one's are rated in milliamp hours because most people don't know an amp from amilliamp from a microamp to a nanolamp to a Pico amp, and really surprises me that they're not using picoamps just to make the numbers huge, because that's what they're doing with the milliamps. I have a couple of these, one is rated at 12,000 milliamp hours, while the other one is rated at 15,000 milliamp hours. Big numbers to impress the ignorant populous, which simply put means the naive public. for those who are not in the engineering industry and don't understand terms like pico nano micro Millie killer mega giga it can be very disillusioning, to show how it sounds to someone who knows, 15,000/1000's or 15,000 X 0.001= 15 amp hours not nearly as impressive a number! But it works the other way to, it's just $39.99 because our brains get caught up on that first digit, even though it is only 1 cent shy of $40 without thinking about it, it right away seams like a lot less, works etreamly well on house wives, busy non working moms.

[@jasonbrown467]

i never thought of that, i should have known, these companies lie and exaggerate so of course they are going to use a somewhat legitimate testing method that gives better stats. but on the bright side, now i even more proud of my equipment tests as perhaps i was evaluating the data wrong

[@carlsch9430]

David, I've found that situation with the odd noise to be a result of the type of load being run from the inverter. Heat guns and space heaters often use a diode in series with the element to allow for a "low setting". The diode half rectifies the sinewave basically halving the output power that you'd get from high power. This makes the inverter work overtime because even though the actual output power may only be 750 watts, that 750 watts is being drawn only from the positive or negative half of the waveform. This forces a significant imbalance on the mosfets trying to drive the output stage causing all sorts of crazy noise. I've always avoided running a device like this on low power setting from an inverter for fear of damaging the inverter. Hope this helps

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you. That's interesting. I'm going to have to learn more about this.

[@chris-jb5ds]

Hi the diode is for the dc motor to run. Some old Eastern block heaters used to have a full bridge rectifier in them to increase the voltage from 230v ac to 325v dc to get more omth out of them for the same power input. The same used to be done in the UK in the 60s and 70s with immersion heaters they were 13a 240v AC or 9a 240v DC ( aka 338v DC )

[@mahmoudgaber5347]

It also popped up in my mind that the noise is due to the non-linear fan load, however if David try a low frequency transformer-based inverter, it would handle it safely

[@th3num83rs3]

@@DavidPozEnergy hey brotha, would you be interested in selling some of your 48v batteries? The website has run out out of stock and need some of the batteries this month lmk

[@__--JY-Moe--__]

could U say it would be best, to run the inverter. through a power isolator/filter block?

[@BertoldVdb]

The voltage you measure between neutral and ground has to do with how the inverter is constructed. There are two common constructions that give this: 1) one output gives a square wave, the other side a 'inverse-rectified' sine wave, L-N is then a complete sine wave. 2) [better] both outputs give a 180 degree out of phase signal (H-bridge driving a symmetrical filter) The fact that you measure different voltages between both wires weakly suggest configuration 1, but without a scope you can't really know. Assuming the case is grounded, this is not really a problem, although some appliances expect a neutral that is very close to ground potential, they won't work. Connecting something (eg, a panel) that bonds neutral to ground will short out the inverter. The strange sound is the internal 48V->200/400V DC/DC converter going into current limit mode. The driver PWM is varying a bit chaotically and some pulses may be skipped. This causes the transformers to make a crackling noise. It is harmless, but does mean you are at more or less the max output power. You can draw a bit more, but the output waveform will not be a sine anymore (peak power at top of the sine can't be provided). The RMS output voltage will also be dropping, as you saw.

[@ricknelson947]

I am definitely not familiar with this model inverter. I can say that my 2000 watt Honda inverter generators measured the same 60vac hot to neutral and neutral to ground. The reason as explained to me was for the different NEC requirements for RV’s. I was told by the Honda dealer to tie the neutral and ground together. It worked well and now I have 120 vac load to neutral and ground and obviously nothing neutral to ground. I would in your situation, specifically get a recommendation from the inverter manufacturer before tying your neutral and ground together. Thank you for your presentation. Very relevant information and well presented.

[@JR-nj8le]

18:35 this is perfect spot for "Technology Connections" guy to cut in to explain in great detail what was making that noise inside the inverter

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I hope someone can help me out with an explanation on that noise.

[@JR-nj8le]

@@DavidPozEnergy That would be great but anyway you are doing a great job and I love your videos man, keep'em coming!:)

[@omoleogedengbe3007]

Great test, 7000w from an 8000w inverter is OK by me. u can't run 8000w continual but 7000w ur OK is nice.

[@leexgx]

This inverter should not be used continuously for more than 4000 Watts @120v (it won't have a long life) reliable post peak loads on all there inverters not there actual constant load witch is unfortunate on the 240v versions more then 4000w is more likely able to happen (as it's half the amps) but Mosfet inverters past 4000w generally don't last long

[@AS-ug2vq]

@@leexgx what kind of inverter you need for 8000w? Big iron transformer type?

[@williamhustonrn6160]

David, you should look into DC direct power. There is a house up here in the mountains near me that was recently built. The entire house runs off DC voltage and its been fun picking the guys brain. Basically, he designed the house with 5 voltages. The main battery bank is run as a 192v DC bank off Sinopoly cells with most of the capacity stored. The house is wired for 192v DC, but in each room he designed it so in each room there is a small panel in the wall that houses small DC circuit breakers for 192v, 96v, 48v, 24v, and 12v DC along with a smaller size battery bank mounted in the panel with some smaller sinopoly cells. He has pigtails running off the smaller 192v bank in each room that runs to each voltage breaker equally to draw down the battery equally. He did it this way to reduce the distance for high amp short burst draws off the system. Then everything in the house has been changed to run off DC voltage or rewired to run off DC. The air conditioner is a mini split system designed to run off 96v, the frig in the kitchen is 192v (170v), the stove is 48v induction unit... basically, he converted his entire life over to DC voltage and now has no inverters in the system to worry about for his entire house except for a handful of items he could not convert due to warranty or due to difficulty, so he uses smallest AC microinverters for them separately to reduce the vampiric losses. He found that most electronics they convert the AC voltage to DC voltage internally, so he would measure out what voltage the device was converting to internally, run a jumper wire with the correct resistance to drop the voltage to the proper voltage and it run it off DC voltage directly with a new power cord. For example, when he was looking into his refrigerator, he found that it converted 120v AC to 170v DC before it went into the mainboard and converted to the various other voltage levels it needs to run, so he just wired it directly, feeding the 170v directly from the 192v DC circuit.

[@coachwilson5967]

Wow that sounds amazing. Full DC house. Of course my shop with all the electric tools would be a pain so Invert there only for when a tool is running but an all DC house sounds nuts!!!!

[@michaelbatchelder]

192v sounds dangerous.

[@Robssi]

.. 1

[@tombombadil3185]

Sounds like his electrical sys. cost more than the house. Also, too much shit to trouble shoot, and the wire size would also increase cost for DC over AC.

[@michaelbouckley4455]

@@michaelbatchelder but lower current, therefore smaller wire than low voltage DC

[@aspendell209]

Well done evaluation David! I agree that type of inverter could be adequate for a portable site supply. It should be sufficient for running any 2-pronged, ungrounded tools. But I wouldn't run it at over 5000w. And any sustained load for more than 30 mins, I wouldn't go over 4000w, unless you want to be replacing boards every few months. Reliable is notorious for making inverters that are way under-engineered for the ratings they apply to them. That humm you were hearing at 6800+ watts was likely the sinewave being clipped at the top and bottom and essentially putting a partial square wave through those undersized coils. If the inverter is able to even get close to 80% efficiency at those higher wattages that would mean that 20% of 7000w is being burnt off as heat. So you have the bonus utility of at least a 1400w space heater that your fans are working so hard to extricate. Well done, keep up the good work!

[@howardescoffery4950]

Interesting and deep insight make seance. My one question is if he did the test for an hour @ an average 5500w smoothly then why say it is a 4000w wouldn't the cooling help to keep the components in normal working standard at 6000w for a reasonable working life. By the way mines running my house and it is a 3000w one.

[@DallasAya]

I bought a 1500 watt 120 volt heating element for the water heater to run it on generator. Come to find out the 250 volt 4500 watt element was 1300 watts on 120 volts. The resistance was 13 ohms on the 1500 watt and 15 ohms on the 4500 watt. Conclusion was to just wire 120 volts to hot-water heater and leave it as is. This works perfectly on the small 3kw genset.

[@6969smurfy]

I got to say, why would you use AC at all.....

[@tommanley2924]

It's a reliable 4000watt inverter.

[@analogaudiorules1724]

They should have just listed it as a 4k inverter....

[@electronicsNmore]

To draw 8000W off a 12V lead acid battery, you'd need at least (2) 8D deep cycle batteries in parallel, and some very heavy gauge wires. At 8000W you'll be pulling around 750 amps.

[@ellissmithjr6599]

667amps👍

[@Brokendiode]

Well that would be the reason that he is not using a 12 volt battery, he is using an electric vehicle battery that is a Lithium cobalt or Lithium NMC in a 14S configuration for 54 volts, so pay attention, no one is going to build an 8000 watt Inverter, that is going to run off a 12 volt battery, especially an 8D lead acid battery. That would be so incredibly inefficient that it just wouldn't make sense!!! 🤔😖

[@jasonbrown467]

but he is using 48v lifepo. and this inverter is 48v. you would need 4 of any 12 volt battery in parallel to turn it on. maybe your point was to put the amps into scale if you ran 8kw off of 12 volts? i am currently using 12v to learn, and plan very soon to move up to 48 volts. on my 12v system the most i have been able to pull was 301amps, and i think it was 11.9v x 301a = 3.5kw. that was last year and i have learned a lot since then, maybe i will try again, now that i have all new lead acid batteries, and more of them, better wires and more inverters to test. those high amps you mention is why i am quickly moving away from 12v, i couldnt imagine just the cost of the cables to run 750amps

[@__--JY-Moe--__]

you just need some capacitor Banks, and a Transformer..

[@reyortega7341]

what gauge wire would that be ??

[@lukerediger8431]

it's good for an off grid, custom solution where you do not bond neutral to ground. Basically this thing creates a standard ac loop that alternates which leg (Neutral and Live) is +60 and which is -60 to get a total of 120 volts. problem is that the Case Ground could be bonded to your house ground, but if you hook it to a standard panel, it bonds ground to neutral which will essentially create a 60V short. Grid power doesn't have this problem because the transformer at the street has an output coil (secondary) with a center tap. The secondary works essentially as 2 coils in series that generate 120 each with a total of 240v. Where they meet there is 120v hitting -120v they cancel each other out without a short because the power on the other end of each coil has to pass through a load first. This point between the coils is the neutral. By bonding this to ground you ensure the other 2 legs from the coil are +120 or -120 while the neutral stays at 0. In grid power the neutral is bonded to ground to prevent the neutral from walking to high voltage... due to inconsistencies and noise in the line, the two legs could stay 240 volts difference in potential from each other, but could walk up to much higher voltages in comparison to ground. By bonding the neutral to ground you ensure it can't "Float" to high voltages in comparison to the rest of the world. If you want to use this as a way to feed a grid panel like a backup generator, you need to add a transformer to it. I would recommend a 1:2 transformer with a center tap on the secondary. This way you could feed the 120 volts into the primary of the transformer, (inverter neutral and live) then connect the secondary's center tap to neutral, and each live to each of your house live wires. You could tie the inverter, transformer and house wiring to ground, as well as the house neutral to ground without the inverter's neutral touching ground. This would also allow you to run 240 volt appliances. there would be some loss from the transformer though. You could use your 50KVA transformer backwards for this, using the H tap in a central spot as your neutral. (set primary for 480, secondary 240, feed into the secondary and pull from the primary, using the H Tap as a neutral at the center) kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmW6nmtpq9iXgcU

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you for such a great comment.

[@realvanman1]

Any supply will "float" with respect to ground if it is not bonded. That is neutral solidly connected to chassis ground.

[@Brokendiode]

Just drop in a bonding screw, in that panel, and it will be just like your primary house panel. 👍😁

[@ScaldaYT]

I must say I have just finished watching the last 30+ videos today. And I found them very informative and interesting on all your solar and power wall stuff. Thank you for sharing it all.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you for checking out the videos.

[@Nostrildomus]

Your review is appreciated . Seems as though most DYI's are running installs at 50% of capacity rate . Test Test Test

[@mega-hb4re]

I use this for my shed to use a small welder and a mini fridge with 0 gauge wire, 200watt panels, a 200 amp class D solar battery and it works terrific.

[@texdoms]

How long have you had it for? The main questions with inverters are: 1/ how much power we can get 2/ how long do they last? My 4kW inverter power my house just blew up. I’m on a market for a new, so I’m on the fence with this one.

[@fishhuntadventure]

0-AWG is too small

[@nickdepuy7162]

I’d like to see your thoughts on running this unit with the larger gauge wire. I agree with your opinion that those wires seem undersized. Love your channel!

[@MagivaIT]

awesome video (as always), i liken this to speakers and amps, my dad always bought 150watt speakers but with a 100watt amp, so the speakers would tick over nicely when the amp was turned up full. bizare analogy i know but if you wanted 6500w of power, buying an 8000w inverter would make sense, i wouldnt want to run anything at its max spec

[@ccv3237]

I love your analogy. It is a very useful one too. Who in his right mind would drive a set of speakers to their max power and expect full functionality? I wouldn't. Also, what goes in as far as power, is greater than what comes out due to overall efficiency matters. Very few machines and equipment, no matter where they are made, are rated as full output plus an extra reserve power, to be on the safe side. Taking all these things into consideration, I am satisfied with results shown in this video.

[@nickcarozza3399]

Great job David. As always, I commend your performance. As a retired Engineer with more than 40 years in Practice, my ears have become "fine tuned" to identify and diagnose equipment based on the sounds that I hear. In this case, I think I know where the noise is coming from when you attempted to exceed 7000 watts. I believe that the sound is being made by either a HIGH Voltage Leak or Arcing which may occur constantly or only at a specific resonant frequency. I suggest that you perform the following test and fix to confirm the source and eliminate the noise. This testing is based on the process of elimination and works on lots of Electronic devices that make this kind of noise including your TV. This cheap repair will also bring the Voltage back up to spec when you exceed 7000 watts. The first variable that you'll want to eliminate and replace is the last load that you placed on the Inverter. In this case replace the Heater with a totally different type of device that will draw the same wattage. This may be all you need to do to confirm the source of the noise. If it works , it means that you hit a resonant frequency and the Electronics in the Inverter are not compatible with the Heater in combination with the other loads. If that doesn't work... The following is what I'd like to see you do. Reproduce this video as a diagnose & repair video using the following steps to identify both External and Internal HIGH Voltage Leaks and to repair them. Step 1 Remove the Top Cover before you bring the Inverter up to 7000 watts or more however, this time with the lights in the room turned off (this will make it easier for you to visually identify the source of the Voltage Leak). If in fact, it turns out to be an external leak you should be able to see the arcing in the dark when the lights are turned off. The Arcing will look a tiny illuminated blue thread of Lightening jumping out of the source and onto another surface. Step 2 If you do not discover the source with the top cover removed then, proceed to remove the side and bottom covers one at a time and repeat the test one time for each. Step 3 If you've located the leak, you can try to repair it by covering the surface that is releasing the Electrical Arc with a thick layer of Clear RTV Silicone, the thicker the better. I've used this repair on many Electronic devices including a High Voltage Capacitor that had burned a hole through its exterior casing and was releasing a High Voltage current that was arcing with other parts of the Chassis on a Sony Trinitron Color TV. That TV was still working 20 years later until we gave it away and upgraded to a Flat Screen TV. Step 4 If you've completed Step 3 and cannot visually identify any external arcing then the next thing to do is to look for a source of Internal arcing. You accomplish this by listening to each of the components, first with your Ear to identify and narrow down the general area where the noise is coming from. Once you've narrowed down the general area, you then probe each of the surfaces and components with a non conductive Stethoscope (if you don't have a Stethoscope you can try holding a wooden dowel or other non conductive material against your ear and using the other end as a probe). You can also purchase a cheap Automotive Stethoscope that has an Aluminum Probe for about $10-$12 at most Auto Parts Stores and then cover the Aluminum Probe with a Rubber Insulator as long as the insulation at the tip is hard so that it can mechanically conduct and transmit the sound. I used clear Vinyl Aquarium Tubing to cover the Aluminum Probe and then used a Hard Plastic Cap at the end. I would actually start by Probing the Capacitors because when overloaded they arc and slowly burn a hole through each layer of insulation and then through its exterior case. An Internal Leak will eventually burn its way through the Component and culminate by either becoming an External Leak/Arc or it's possible that the Inverter will either continue to operate at a reduced output or completely shut down instead, That's about it. It's pretty simple and I'm sure that you will enjoy your newly acquired diagnostic skills so much that, you will begin probing everything around you. Thanks Again, Nick

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you for such a great comment and suggestions.

[@jimmybrad156]

I bought a cheap 3500w continuous 'pure sine wave' inverter that sounds like a hard drive clicking constantly about 5 mins after starting up, with a 70w load (a few switchmode loads.) 24v dc in, 240v 50hz ac out. When I first got it, I don't know if it was making this noise or not, because I was load testing it with a heatgun set to half power with it's about halfway using about 500w showing a power factor of 0.66 (when dialled to full and switched to 2 of 2, it pulls 1950w with a power factor of 1.00). I ran this half-waveform load for about 4.5 hours to test the battery capacity with a realistic load. The inverter's body got a few derees C above ambient. The noise of the inverter's fan and the heatgun's fan meant I wouldn't have been able to hear any clicking noise from the inverter whether it was making that clicking noise or not. With the small load the inverter first starts clicking slowly, a bit like a cricket, then sounds like a hard drive constantly accessing after a few mins. With no load, you can hear it click ~3hz, but you have to put your ear right next to it.

[@sonjakavalut]

Would be great to see how sinusoidal output voltage form is changed with increased load. Thank you and best regards.

[@onefixitman]

I don't think I would lug all that equipment around in the middle of a field to use battery power. A portable generator works great and they usually have a wheel kit. I am impressed by all the batteries and inverters you have and have tested.

[@meblake7359]

I am not a master electrician, but I don't think there shouldn't be power between the neutral and ground. The example I have ever seen of this was with neutral sharing where the voltage was cut in half when power was off. Hopefully, an electrician can explain it. The 2 phase explaination sounds interesting.

[@leexgx]

It's like a split phase but at 60v each live and neutral to make the 120v We say hot earth as the 60v shows when you test between L and E or N and E (the return path is to the inverter internally) , if you did the same on the house earth you still get 60v on L or N to house earth If I had not asked him to test for hot ground this video would of been magic smoke Video if he had the earth+neutral bonded inside that box (most people are not aware of the half voltage split phase setup of some inverters higher powered MOSFET inverters and get a nice bang out of the inverter when the Neutral and earth is bonded somewhere) I believe they do this so they split the amperage between both line 1 and technically line 2

[@LithiumSolar]

My Reliable 1500W does the same thing, showing 62V on each ground-neutral and ground-hot. I think they made a 120V split phase inverter (technically having two hots and no neutral) rather than a 120V single phase inverter. That would scare the heck out of me wiring to an actual outlet. G+N are supposed to be at the same potential. Great test though!! Stick to the AIMS. Lol

[@stardustastro]

My 2000W inverter does the same thing just for 230V. 115V on both life and neutral. The outputs are galvanically isolated so you can touch one even if they are powered cause there is no reference between you and earthground. Just dont touch L and N or the inverterground at the same time ⚡😄⚡

[@Ian-pe9rj]

Those cheap inverters split the DC bus (they connect the secondary of those high frequency boost transformers in series, and center tap the middle point between the transformers and make a split rail power supply (+/- 150V) and use two half bridges connected to the split rail and drive them 180 degrees out of phase and use the center tap between the transformers as the neutral. The N and L legs are connected to the output of the half bridge, and the ground is just connected to battery negative. If you connect the N to the ground, you’re shorting one half bridge directly to battery negative and will blow the inverter. You get 60VAC on each leg but each leg are driven 180 degrees out of phase so you get 120V between the L and N, or 60VAC between either leg and ground.

[@brianliska6470]

When an inverter states it is 8000w, that is peak wattage. Peak wattage can be attained for only a certain duration specified by the manufacturer. A rule of thumb is to multiply it by 80%. This gives you 6400w. It was fine around that wattage.

[@neliosamch3195]

Low frequency should do twice or more for a few seconds.

[@redsquirrelftw]

normally they should have a separate peak rating too. Waht they advertise it as should in theory be continuous. Ex: this one might state 8000w/16000w. Of course some will in fact advertise peak only. IMO that's crooked, but to be expected. I would not run more than half of the rating of anything that comes from China/Amazon though. Considering that, this one did half decent. I'd like to see how it handles heavy startup loads though.

[@smdindustries3699]

You need to be using a low impedance meter for testing voltages on output, to confirm if it is center taped to earth or if your just seeing ghost voltages from capacitive coupling. Alternatively load your high impedance multimeter with a incandescent lamp in parallel with the meter probes.

[@tracysmith7318]

I agree. Put a 60w light bulb from 110v POS TO GROUNG and then measure the voltage to ground. . . Good vid. IF I got 7000 plus watts, I'd be happy for the price. . I'd replace the cables inside and install additional fans. . . I think the buzz is Transformer Saturation. . . . Good job. . ..

[@davidhardin1402]

I was hoping someone would come out and say that because that's what it is phantom voltage. Hit it with low impedance voltage meter and it should be no voltage.

[@kenattagexp9871]

Very Interesting. Like you, I have purchased Reliables. The first was 24v@2000w and it stopped working (just unresponsive/dead) when I hooked the ground to the home wiring ground - I think I read that they don't want you to do this. The 2nd was 48v@3000w and it blew up (dead short on DC terminals) when I tried to run 12,000BTU air conditioner. I still have a 24v@1500w that I use (as you said) for my custom portable solar generator - e.g. day/short use. Since then, I've upgraded to AIMS. First was 48v@2000w - ran fine and now 48v@12,000w with 36,000w spike for 20secs (e.g. 240v@50a continuous output) running my home... and so far (6 months) no problem. The max I've had it is about 7,000w. I guess I would recommend AIMS or higher for 24/7 home use and pass on Reliable for that purpose. And oh yes, that #10AWG temp measurement seemed 'pretty hot' for my taste... and 65v on ground.. no wonder they don't want you to wire it home ground as that's enough to get an unexpected shock (I believe).

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Nice, you got one of the big bad boys, the Aims 12kw. That's great. I'm still using my 6kw for my house 24/6. (The 6 is an average of 6 days a week because I switch back to the grid if there are two cloudy days back to back. However, this has to do with solar array size, and nothing to do with the Aims inverter) Anyways, I sometimes hit the limit of the Aims inverter and wish I had a slightly bigger model.

[@kenattagexp9871]

Yes, what I was trying to say that as my self-energy production has moved from *fun* experimental (cheaper Reliable Inverters) to routine daily home use I've discovered I need significant inverter power and equipment that you don't have to worry about - after all its my home and family. For example, its summer and I turned on the portable 12,000BTU AC and the inverter watts shot up by 12a@120v - no problem. But then things cascaded as the wife turned on the cooktop and I was running the table saw etc... and power spiked right up to 7000w without even thinking about it. All because its become 'routine' and I've stopped thinking about individual 1000w increments. Another part of AIMS was the ETL (UL) listing - in the hopes of increased safety. Bottom Line - it seems like you are on the same track to provide whole home power for significant periods and I'll be interested to see your journey. Really appreciate your work and videos :)

[@timh2870]

I would try a small 120v incandescent bulb (7 watt should do) from line/neutral to ground. if the bulb does not light, then check the voltage across it. If the voltage is zero or close to it, then it should be fine to bond the neutral to ground, but don't be surprised if you see 60 volts ac or more from your battery terminals to ground.

[@davestech6357]

If you are testing and being that close you should have at least eye protection on. Measure the voltage drop of your wires and increase your wire gauge until it is low. That noise it makes might be over saturation on a transformer. Just a thought measure the output on dc volts and you should see dc ripple when it's over driven.

[@child_of_god_]

The ground is fine measuring at about halfway from hot to neutral. But it won't stay there if you try to draw usable current from it. A voltmeter is not sufficient a load, and in this case it only measure the stray voltage which usually is defined by ac coupling capacitors to hot and neutral, hence the halfway voltage

[@nyteshdw1]

That sound is the result of an exposed conduit/connection arcing an excess of load within the unit across to the next closest conductive surface when the max load for that connection is running through it. You get the drop in efficiency because, excess flow that the line can't handle is discharging into what is probably the internal frame. Its a very familiar noise if you've ever played with a Tesla coil. ;)

[@lifeadventures465]

Great video I enjoy learning along with you. I love my PowerJack LF 48v 15000 splitphase. Runs entire house, just got to keep it cool.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Did you get that new version with two additional fans on top of the case?

[@markgohl2660]

If you take a transformer lets say 120 Volts to 120 volts such that the output is floating. I.E Not grounded and measure the voltage from either of the outputs to ground you may find you have 60 volts in each case. The reason is that that there is capacitance between the winding,s and the meter requires s very small current to operate. If you where to connect a load which draws some current such as a light-bulb from one of the terminals to ground it most likely will not light. You inverter most likely has a floating output (But it could be center tapped the light bulb test will light in this case) but it is impossible to say for certain without taking it apart to find out. I would contact the manufacture to ask about how you should earth this equipment. Floating outputs are used on isolation transformers such as are used for outdoor use of tools because there is less chance of an earth return path and less chance of a shock but can be a problem in a larger installation.

[@Screamingtut]

I think the buzz might be transformer lamination buzz, I'm a ham radio operator, I used to have an old HF radio that ran 350 watts output with Tubes when I ran it a max plate current I got the same buzz. when I went back to school to get my second EE degree back in the 80s. I learned a lot more about AC power. when I am pulling 350 watts RF output in a class C Amp the power supply is pulling close to 550-600 watts on the input. there are occultations on the transformer plates. when I replaced the transformer with a very good high-quality transformer the buzzing stopped and I got a Higher output RF out (400-425 watts more output vs the 350W output, eg better efficiency). So I also would change the battery wires going from the inverter to the batteries to at least a #4 AWG. also go up at least two gauges higher wire on those on the output.

[@askostadinov]

Most probably half of the output voltage presented on the case is due capacitive coupling from output filter. There are capacitors at the output from line to ground and from neutral to ground. These capacitors are of the same value and the voltage is divided in half. For trailer use I would suggest to use portable grounding rod. Drive grounding rod into the earth with suitable hammer and connect it to the grounding point of the inverter. For permanent hause use I think the inverter should be wired by certified technician according local electrical code. At least the installation and wiring should be checked by inspector. Good video. Keep good work.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you.

[@gn02020202]

Usually you see the voltage on the neutral like that with a modified sine inverter. If it is a pure sine, it maybe their intent that you manually tie the ground and neutrals together.

[@mark_osborne]

Awesome video. To make AC from DC it's mostly a matter of switching (positive to negative) DC FETS at a frequency that gives you either 'pure sine' or 'modified sine'. Given that, those FETs have to give up the heat at a rate (that they produce)- or you'll eventually have an overheated situation. So the entire chassis, heat sinks, fans, etc, all have to be sized to disperse the heat produced. Example: Magnum inverters increase the fan speed immediately with even the slightest load. And Magnum's fans are huge! Given that, I suspect Reliable is working toward building something to compete with the larger full frame inverters - one tiny step at a time. Thanks for all you do to expose what is actually happening in the Chinese inverter market !

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thanks Mark. Your inverter setup is great. Any hickups, or are you still running off-grid?

[@mark_osborne]

@@DavidPozEnergy All is well, no problems. I was having this 'reliability' conversation with a new off-grid friend. Did you know the early Trace SW inverters made by Schneider virtually last forever ? Early off-girders are still running them. Just imagine how many trillions of cycles those FETs made over the decades.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I've never seen inside those old units. Was the technology similar to todays inverters?

[@mark_osborne]

@@DavidPozEnergyAs far as I know, the topography of the LF inverter is still the same pretty much regardless of who builds it.

[@tjgorla]

same as power on a boat it is an ungrounded system so you will show voltage on both the hot and neautral.

[@eagle5720]

I have this same issue with my inverter that I wire to breaker box but when turn off the breaker box there is still power going to the outlet because current still in the neutral leg which is confusing. Can this be a issue with the inverter?

[@BajanAlan]

If you turned on an AM (MW) radio it would check for RF noise!

[@samsmester7983]

8k is the peak power, that inverter cannot run more than 6400 W continuosly, they should market it as 6400W not 8k. Is a good price for a 6.4k inverter.

[@Engineerizo]

It's true it may be at 6880w continuous bcz of the 86% efficiency and the 57.3A cables rating of 10 Gauge is 6880w

[@reyortega7341]

thats crazy how do you know this fact sam /?

[@Ian-pe9rj]

Those cheap inverters split the DC bus (they connect the secondary of those high frequency boost transformers in series, and center tap the middle point between the transformers and make a split rail power supply (+/- 150V) and use two half bridges connected to the split rail and drive them 180 degrees out of phase and use the center tap between the transformers as the neutral. The N and L legs are connected to the output of the half bridge, and the ground is just connected to battery negative. If you connect the N to the ground, you’re shorting one half bridge directly to battery negative and will blow the inverter. You get 60VAC on each leg but each leg are driven 180 degrees out of phase so you get 120V between the L and N, or 60VAC between either leg and ground.

[@jimmybrad156]

I bought a cheap 3500w continuous 'pure sine wave' inverter that sounds like a hard drive clicking constantly about 5 mins after starting up, with a 70w load (a few switchmode loads.) 24v dc in, 240v 50hz ac out. When I first got it, I don't know if it was making this noise or not, because I was load testing it with a heatgun set to half power with it's about halfway using about 500w showing a power factor of 0.66 (when dialled to full and switched to 2 of 2, it pulls 1950w with a power factor of 1.00). I ran this half-waveform load for about 4.5 hours to test the battery capacity with a realistic load. The inverter's body got a few derees C above ambient. The noise of the inverter's fan and the heatgun's fan meant I wouldn't have been able to hear any clicking noise from the inverter whether it was making that clicking noise or not. With the small load the inverter first starts clicking slowly, a bit like a cricket, then sounds like a hard drive constantly accessing after a few mins. With no load, you can hear it click ~3hz, but you have to put your ear right next to it.

[@aleksandererga2319]

I dont think you need to worry about the voltage to ground. I am a electrician in norway where we use two different line power systems. One is called TN, which is the same as you have in the states except we run 230, in TN the neutral and groud is the come from the same place (the neutral on the transformer supply). And the phases have a 400V potential against eachother. IT on the other hand is only three live phases and the ground gets supplied from actually the ground itself (as the transformer ground is altso just hammered into the ground). This means that the phases have a 230V potential against eachother (in your case 120V), and all the phases have a 120V potential to earth (in your case 60 ish volts). So the inverter is probably simulating a IT supply rather than a TN supply which most people are used to. And thats altso probably why the inverter has no 240V (in my case that would be 400) because the phase-phase voltage in IT is 120V (US) no matter what. So in other words, the inverter is outputing 2 phases as it is, but the two phases only have a 120V potential to eachother. Hope this helps :)

[@mightymoto2636]

Input reading and previous calc. is what you should be using and calculations on. The noise in all probability’s is one or all 3 of the coils vibrating. I personally would replace the 10 ga internal wires w/8 or maybe 6 gauge.

[@kadmow]

Ground the case (or the Battery 0v) and the voltage will then be referenced to 0 Volt ground. (neutral will likely connect to the same bus as "ground" (MEN) inside the unit - after any RCD/GFCI. The case voltage you describe is just from a floating ground - floating ground can be at any level above true 0V.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thanks.

[@ahaveland]

Good job David - still not bad performance considering. I think we've all come to expect that you can't trust the claims Chinese products make. Unless they face real consequences from trading standards bodies and the law for continuing to lie and mislead, then they'll just keep doing it. Thankfully youtube can help to expose the really bad players before they rip off too many people, so for anyone wishing to make a big investment on kit, always check out youtube for reviews first, and never buy impulsively!

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I agree Andy. I love KZbin for it's ability to quickly share product reviews.

[@robertc.fisher3214]

According to the NEC the ground and neutral should be bonded at the service entrance or transformer output and properly grounded to an 8 ft ground rod pounded into the ground. For temp power ground should be isolated or to a ground rod in the dirt.

[@btwbrand]

Old comment. but this test set-up is not a grid tied system and is using a isolated ground. No need to bond the neutral/ground to the earth.

[@pomonabill220]

Knowing how inverters work, I'll bet that the neutral is connected to battery negative. You can check that with an ohm meter. I think you would want to run the neutral terminal to your bonding ground or drive a ground rod. You don't want the inverter's ground floating. That would also lead to complications if you were to connect the output to your house wiring as the neutral is bonded in the panel to earth ground, so in that case, you would float the "ground" on the inverter, and keep the case of the inverter floating as well. That would be a shock hazard as touching the case, would be hot referenced to ground. The only way to isolate the ground/neutral would be to use an isolation transformer... which would add a little inefficiency (copper losses).

[@stoneyislandranch9783]

So your saying if you hook it to a house leave it floating at the inverter which basic contains the float.. hence making the shell of the inverter possibly dangerous to touch vs transferring that float to the house wiring?

[@stoneyislandranch9783]

Fix put a "Do not touch high voltage" sign on the housing of the inverter..lbvs

[@loujackets]

Stoney Island Ranch l

[@danielmusat597]

Hi, My opinion, without knowing the device itself, is that the crackling noise is a protection relay that works at a high frequency. The efficiency that you computed is correct but... an inverter is made to drive resistive loads, not motors. A motor has reactivity and generates a low PFC (power needed to deliver pure sine power is way over 1). That's why you couldn't get over 7K watts. Next time use only heat resistors and you will get the real efficiency of the device. Cheers!

[@energielegresleyenergy1115]

You should run only resistive loads true it. By eliminating all motors you'll eliminate all the Var therefore giving you a more accurate representation of output watts capability of the unit. Also you didn't ground the unit at all. Ground means getting a connection the actual ground, a ground bar pounded into the earth to at lease reach wet soil or to a water main of the house that is metal.

[@DJRobbie54]

Dave, I've just now seen your video which you published August 10th, 2019 near the end of the video you talked about the case having voltage on it it needs to be isolated from the ground if you haven't already done that that's what needs to be done what spacers plastic spacers or rubber spacers. That is considered a negative-positive charge to the case. Which should not even be present. In other words, isolate the chassis motherboard from the case.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thanks.

[@danielbuckman2727]

I'm actually pretty impressed. I mean how often do you run 7000 Watts continuously. I only run a 4000 Watt inverter now so this will be a great improvement.

[@oldtimeengineer26]

I hooked my units chassis ground nut to earth ground and then the voltage read correct. there should be an earth ground screw under the unit.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Yes, there is a grounding screw on the chassis.

[@SuperVstech]

The interesting thing about your wiring job in the panel is, you wired it up, like a sub panel. I.E. you have Neutral and Ground unbounded. In a main panel, the first panel off the meter, the Neutral leg from the pole is BONDED to the ground wire. You should perform a video test to see what would happen if you follow this convention. Does the 1/2 voltage disappear, or does the inverter explode...

[@randycook4364]

explode

[@ralph72462]

So maybe they mean 8000 w peak surge voltage 6500 w continuous. Thank you for your video been looking at this brand of inverter on Amazon and your video was very helpful. You are taking the guess work out of this. That is what is so hard about solar that manufacturers can be unclear and even way off on their claims. I bet that this inverter can take a surge of 8000 w for maybe under 1 minute and not burn out but that is only surge limit not operating specs. So interesting yet still needs heftier wires coming from the battery. I am looking at a model from this company of 120/240 v to run off of my 48v battery bank that I am putting together. Your videos are very helpful.❤❤❤ and 3 thumbs 👍👍 👍

[@chachavessel]

IMO(my 1.5 cents) For good measure, it's probably best if you keep it at no more than ~5kW. It has ONE review on amazon. Personally, I would not spend $1400. The best way to get an idea on temps. is to get you a thermal imaging camera.

[@stoneyislandranch9783]

I played $1k

[@electroman982]

If you use the inverter in the field you would need a GFI receptacle to be safe...not required by code since Code doesn't deal with that inverter in that application...you would want to mount the GFI as close to the inverter as possible as well.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you.

[@JoeInBendigo]

@@DavidPozEnergy With both power connections floating, the GFI would either never trip, so be pointless, or it would trip if you touch the case and ther IS ACTUALLY half power on the case, not just half voltage. As someone else said, try connecting a light globe between active and ground and neutral and ground and see if it is ACTUALLY just a capacitive potential with no power capacity at all. In that case, you can safely ground the neutral and then a GFI would actually work and be sensible.

[@kayak_1]

The voltage to ground is more than a bit suspect. I If your heading to mid cost Maine, I would be glad to give you a tour of my solar setup. I have an Outback 8084A and a 10KW Solar Edge at my house.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

That would be great. I have relatives in Bangor, so I travel up 95 regularly. Can we message on facebook? facebook.com/DavidPozEnergy/

[@georgegentry8922]

AC voltage is alternating current, AC moves between 60v AC + and 60v AC - so you will see voltage on both positive and negative terminals, KZbin has some really good videos on how AC works. hope this helps

[@JoeInBendigo]

Not correct.AC 120V moves from +120xSqRoot of 2 to -120xSqRoot of 2 = +169V to -169V. It alternates between the 2 states of 120V RMS. That's why it's called alternating current.

[@NativelyBornAmerican]

The chassis should be connected to earth ground. You’re floating with it the way it is.

[@reuellee4451]

👏 you are one of the few that I see truly understand electricity

[@ninja5672]

The inverter manufacturer should have clearly explained this when he asked. You need to bond the neutral to ground at ONE point in the system.

[@ai4313]

Hey David. There is no voltage on the case. The case is grounded and you measure the phase or the "neutral" (which is not a neutral) against the ground potential. So you actually measure the difference between each "phase" and the ground! That's your 57 or 65 VAC. Nothing to worry! In my opinion this can't be a true Sine Wave Inverter. They are using two phase here just like your 240VAC! Have you tried an Oscilloscope on the output voltage?

[@wateryblaze]

The voltage you get between phase and neutral to earth is because there are a couple of small X rated capacitors (between 1,000pF and 10,000pF) wired between the phase terminal and the inverter body or earth and the neutral terminal and the inverter body or earth and it acts like a voltage divider for AC. The difference in voltage is partly due to the fact that your multimeter has a very high input resistance, in the range of 10 megohms and the capacitors are not equal in value. There is usually a few picofarads difference between capacitors as they come off the manufacturing line. If you are worried by this voltage, measure the AC current and it should be less than half a milliamp. If your hands are dry or oily, I doubt that you would even feel it across one hand. The output (P & N) of a modern inverter is isolated from both the battery and the case and you can treat it like an isolation transformer. The earth pins of the output sockets must be connected for safety reasons. If you have two earthed appliances and one has a short to ground from neutral and the other has a short to ground from phase, they will shut down your inverter or they will blow the fuse or circuit breaker and not give you a shock. Never try to feel or move a live wire with the palm or fingers... always use the back of your hand so you cannot grab and hold the wire. The inverter is probably going into partial shut down when you hear that funny noise and may be its self preservation mode. I run a 4,000 watt inverter on a 24 volt battery and make sure that I don't exceed 3,000 watts. It will supply 4,000 watts... I've tried it. I don't want to overheat the electrolytic (storage) capacitors and semiconductors so that it will last a long time. Nice video, by the way... clear thinking.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you, great explanation.

[@hotrex7779]

Hi interesting I am in the UK and we have a different supply system to the USA . I am at the moment repairing a 3000 watt reliable inverter that went bang this was almost 12 months old . Destruction was caused by it being switched on while it was connected to a air compressor . The normal start up was to start inverter then switch on the loads but the guy forgot to check . Yes there are two capacitors competed between the case and both L and N outputs this acts as a voltage divider and puts about 60 bolts on the case . These I believe are to get rid of hi frequency noise . You can see them connected to a pad on circuit board marked PE . There seems to be a lot of confusion when ppl talk about ground and earthing . From what I can see as I reverse engineer this inverter . The 240 volt output is floating and has no direct conection to the battery input terminals or the case apart from the two capacitors . When I have rebuilt this unit I will be testing it to see if I can link the neutral output To the earth connection to give a true earth reference . As the UK wiring regs require. I also have to ensure that it will be happy if the Dc supply 0volt or negative is also earthed as many Battery chargers do connect this to earth when they are in use . What you may find which I will have to test is if there would be enough current flow through these capacitors to trip a RCD type device That you should use on the output to detect earth leakage as I doubt that these inverters would blow a fuse in the case of a shorted leg to earth .

[@mickeylewis8094]

Voltage will be present on line and neutral because its a modified sinewave inverter. That is why its important not to wire your modified inverter to your panel where the neuótral is tied to the ground.

[@Paul-gz5dp]

If you can light a incandescent lamp from ground to case then you would not be safe, but if it is just a very small current that is enough to show on a meter that is not a problem.

[@kickgas7171]

Part of the problem with this inverter is that it is a high frequency, transformerless inverters which is not good when powering inductive loads like refrigerators, microwave, ovens, portable air conditioners, power tools or motors. You may be able to start some of these loads when this high frequency solar generator is new, but over time, typically after less than a year of repeated use, this lightweight, high frequency inverter generator WILL fail. They simply are not designed for powering inductive loads. That's why the big name brand inverter manufacturers like Schneider Electric, Outback Power, Magnum Energy and others, all use a low frequency topology in their design.

[@rpsmith]

I wouldn't recommend using an A/C for a test load. It's best to use purely restive loads when testing inverters and I'm sure your A/C very inductive.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thanks. You are probably right. But it's a tiny window AC, so probably not a big deal. I had maxed out all the resistors I had and needed more things. Next time I'll have to buy more resistors.

[@katecapil4574]

Love to see more of these inverter tests. Both 12 and 24v. I see many 1k and 3k inverters that really cant deliver that. Edit: thanks for the video, loved it :)

[@hellopsp180]

I originally read the title as 800W Inverter. Few hrs later, i finally read it as 8000W and thought interesting

[@leexgx]

Just want to add to the last time I mentioned for you to check for the live Ground The Meaning of live ground means that the return path for the inverter AC side is the Earth if you do the test inverter Earth to house earth you will find the Earth is not live, if you do the same tests with the inverter live neutral and Live to house earth you will find they also do 60 volts to your house Earth connection as well The inverter Earth itself is not live it's just the way we say it It's obviously the first time you come across an inverter that has a split phase set up like this, and it's good that I asked the question about checking the hot live before you wired it up as this would of been a very short video if you had the Neutral and earth bonded inside that panel and had the earth connected to the case you've got there (basically the earth on split phase is like the neutral of the AC side but as its been configured as 120v split phase probably due to load reasons to spread the load over the live and neutral so you don't bond the neutral and ground or you will be bridging 60 volts to itself and will instantly blow up the inverted the moment switch it on (blow all the fuses and Fry all the MOSFETS) Basically don't use the earth from the inverter (just ignore as that's what most seem to do and leave it disconnected) and make sure there is nothing that is neutral earth bonded in the distribution box or anywhere in the house or you get instant magic smoke Also note reliable do not list the continuous power of there inverters if you continue to use this inverter past 4000 Watts especially on 120 volts the inverter unlikely only last about 9 months (you need to look for a transformer inverter like AIMS that has 120v or 240v split phase they can do upto 15000watts on 240v split phase or 7000w on single 120v phase or get a white box true single phase 240v inverter witch I completely forgot the name of the inverter brand but they can last upto 10 years before failing (sunny boy is another inverter as well)

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Good stuff. I very much appreciate the help.

[@leexgx]

@@DavidPozEnergy just noticed and forgot you have a aims 6000w inverter (split phase 3000w 120v or 6000w 240v inverter), witch is a transformer based inverter, the reliable is a downgrade as its Mosfet based (did something happen to the aims inverter or was this just a free review)

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Hi lee x, Nothing is wrong with my Aims inverter. It is still running strong. My whole house has been running on the Aims most of the summer. I did not buy the Reliable 8kw, they sent it to me for free and asked me to test and review it.

[@leexgx]

@@DavidPozEnergy I guess from the review you say this is more for mobile operation as having 2 hots would mean you have to mess with distribution panel to disconnect and reconnect the Neutral to ground bonding everytime you wanted to switch They have in the past had 4-8kw inverters that are fully single phase (not this half like phase setup resulting in 2 60v hots)

[@donplumber6141]

Love the barrel with heating element good test

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thanks. I built that barrel heater for some solar testing I was doing. I was connecting solar panels directly to the heater element. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYfEqXScjbaDerc

[@imark7777777]

They probably center tap the transformer as ground/case so you're getting a sort of floating neutral effect.

[@Engineerizo]

Hi David I think they are right the 10 GAUGE wires hot and neutral are the correct sizes the inverter is approximately 8000w and 86% efficient so it's around 6880w and a maximum of 57.3A which is right for 19 GAUGE wire thanks I like your education videos

[@buyamerican3191]

Hi David, This is my first view from you. Nicely done, you are obviously intelligent in the field you are discussing (refreshing on you tube). Lots of things I could discuss with you but not enough time/space, let me commend you on using proper terminals and a proper crimper!

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Hi Craig, Thank you for watching. I'm still learning and enjoy helpful criticism, so feel free to do so. If you want to discuss more send me a message through Facebook. facebook.com/DavidPozEnergy/

[@LucianoBatista]

Muito bom esse seu inversor, parabéns

[@terrencehuebner8378]

You are seeing voltage on the ground because you are not actually connected to ground. The chassis are bonded together but no where in the system does a connection go to a buried ground grid.

[@docchocobo]

The voltage to ground will be equal or close to it on either leg because they use a semiconductor bridge switching high voltage to generate the output. If you use the neutral on the terminal block as a ground in a household system and faults occur, you can destroy the output transistors in the bridge. Tie your ground and neutral wires to the neutral terminal on the inverter before you lose the magic smoke. This is a characteristic of cheaper inverters, usually with modified sine units. That 60 volts is half the bridge output. Weird to see this in a sine inverter...

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you.

[@Halio1984]

That sir would be a bad a mosfet....it's probably not 100% bad but with solid silicon based electronics can partially short...the humming is probably similar to power lines that hum when you pull to much power through them..but honestly you need connect that thing to ground. If you don't have the box to ground than you become the fastest route to ground and get one hell of shock...

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thanks.

[@mahdibarati2841]

If you can put a light bulb - need to bee incandescent bulbs - between any of two terminals and the ground terminal, if the light bulb turned on then obviously it's dangerous but if light bulb did not turn on then you need to measure current running through it if current is low - at least under 30 mA - then it's OK to work with.

[@joseno69]

David im a beginner on the Solar Panels Systems. I like your videos they are very nicely explained. The wiring and testing are a must. I understand everything here in this video. Is there another video on how many solar panels, batteries I need to start this Job. I'm an electrician and love doing work at my house. This is one project I want to do.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Hi Jose, I have lots of videos going through the other components, but I'd start with this overview: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWOVeIGNoaqBZ8k

[@joseno69]

@@DavidPozEnergy Thank you David I'm looking forward for this Video.

[@joseno69]

David thank you for the video it helped alot. David is there any other way to contact you besides you tube?

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Facebook. I'm @davidpozenergy

[@nubbynubs123]

These units are good for pure resistor type loads such as bar heaters or water heater elements like you used. As soon as you load them up with inductive loads like air con, refrigeration and big power saws they fail. I have a Reliable and it failed.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Hi Dr Spaceman, You might find my other video on this inverter interesting. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHmTe6d7eq6XgdU

[@JasonPrice1]

This is exactly why as much as I want to do some backup power setup in my house that starts with batteries and then uses a generator if it is a longer outage, I have not. The only truly good inverters are the charger inverters and of those, the best that I would trust for all the things in my house are Schneider and Outback and those things are NOT cheap at all.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Nope, they are not cheap. Great products though. I have been using an AIMS brand inverter (6000w) for powering my house. it works well, and is about halfway in price between these "Reliable" and Outback.

[@ursodermatt8809]

i say this here again: if a chinese inverter or any other electrical device says 8000W, best to only use it at 4000W max.

[@leexgx]

Yep reliable list their peak output not their constant on all their products you shouldn't pull more than 3000 4000 Watts constantly on this inverter (especially on the 110-volt versions) over that amount you will shorten the life of it typically the last about 6 to 9 months if you're constantly putting high stress loads on it like pumps and stuff will destroy these inverters typically within 12 months These are MOSFET inverters not transformer inverters beyond 3000w they can be unreliable over long time

[@ipr724]

@@leexgx You are implying the MOSFETs are raising the voltage instead of transformers?

[@willmartin1809]

@R-77 That's a great question.

[@yangwu928]

i would use less than 10% of their spec says according my experience. Life is ours, mony is others.

[@Jaker788]

Can you explain why their peak power is double the rated power then? If the listed power rating was its peak, why would they have a separate peak rating?

[@ZoeyR86]

That noise sounds like the transformers hit full saturation.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thanks.

[@ZoeyR86]

@@DavidPozEnergy if you have an oscilloscope i bet around 5kw it starts to look like a modified sign wave as the power clips.. i have a 24v 2kw white unit i picked up about a year ago. It held a clean sign wave tell 1865w then starts to fall on it's face. But as simple tool power in a cargo trailer it works well for the price. Power supply is 2 tesla modules 2 mppt chargers and 2 330watt mono panels

[@ZoeyR86]

@@DavidPozEnergy if you can email me. username at gmail if you near by I'm a hardware engineer and have a crazy amount tools just for testing things like this. I rebuild 10kw+ car audio amplifiers in my free time my guess is tour not west coast. I'm not really into videos so you more than welcome to use a scope and some logging gear. And my load bank for tests.

[@bimmers50e30]

@@ZoeyR86 @davidpoz techmaster Joe is right... If you don't know how to use in an oscilloscope they're scary at first but pretty easy.. The advice I give to most is look up a company called parallax. Get their "whats a micro controller” kit and prop scope kit. they're really easy to understand and teach you a lot. Also the digital analog books that you can download their site are great too. and then you'll understand a lot more of what you're playing with

[@ZoeyR86]

@@bimmers50e30 that's a really good idea

[@Rorschach00Testing]

Thorough due diligence. Bravo! Did you remove the cover and turn the lights out to rule out arcing under heavy load? Good work David. Reliable Electric should hire you! 🤑

[@DavidPozEnergy]

I did remove the cover afterwards and looked for any scorch marks, or melting. (none). I didn't think about turning off the lights, that would have been a good one to try. Thanks for the suggestion.

[@offgridwanabe]

ya get what you pay for I think it did wonderful considering the price and it is a 120 ac volts. I would like to see the surge after a load say 3000 watts and you plug in the big saw you have.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

It did better then the first version. If this was labeled 6500w, I'd be thrilled.

[@offgridwanabe]

@@DavidPozEnergy lol yup over engineering is a American thing likely to avoid law suits so they just label lower.

[@JonalistTwitMe]

Thanks for using short links.

[@dynomania]

It would be nice if the Chinese manufacturers were honest with their performance ratings. If you take into account a safety margin of around 25% then it's really only a 6000 Watt Inverter. Great review though at least you know exactly what you're buying.

[@richardwilliams3215]

check the heat gun, some have a diode to get the low setting, the diode causes an imbalance and will make noise

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thank you, I will.

[@scottmcintosh2988]

Like a welder with an 80% duty cycle you should only werld 80% of each hour . I would use much larger wires on your inverter also . The heat dissipated by wires and water heaters and electric heaters must be figured into your math formula. SCOTT from N.H

[@russellhancock9765]

I used to have a 200 watt modified since wave inverter. I never measured the case, but it would bite You when You touched it.

[@spmcintyre]

If this has been mentioned already, I apologize, but I believe that 8kw is probably the surge rating, with a continuous rating of 6.5 or 7.

[@richardwilliams3215]

looks like they connected the earth to the mid point between L and N, check to see if battery negative also connected to earth, could argue that having 55v between L and E and 55v between N and E is not a bad idea

[@cheetahkid]

The Earth, if you connect that Earth to Earth ground, it won't make any different but be warn do not connect the neutral to neutral . It is something to do with isolated so the transformer from another source will be split supply, so that invertor act as a split supply (or floating earth), it is also that invertor mean to supply on it own power, for safety, always switch off main before you turn on the invertor and vice verse . Off grid fixed sounds ok to use it. Main supply came from a source miles away got to have a earth connected, and the invertor does not have earth, so they have added earth with split supply (centre tapped) same with transformers.

[@bjarkegth4098]

It does not have an output transformer

[@rashmiranjannayak3251]

Good fun job, the sound seems to be something sparking from out put A.C leads.

[@SuperVstech]

As far as mobile power use, that implies weather... and having voltage present between neutral and ground is a serious concern. I would want it connected to a GFCI jobsite box for safe voltage interrupt...

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Good point. Thanks.

[@rvprepperwayne]

It will trip a GFCI so you cant hook it up to one.

[@stevenhaworth9]

@@DavidPozEnergy if there is voltage on the earth it will always trip the gfci on there get rid of it. cheap stuff like this will kill someone one day.

[@DavidPozEnergy]

That's interesting. In my last video of this inverter I was hooking up my tools through a GFCI outlet. That worked fine, so I wonder if something else is going on?

[@stevenhaworth9]

@@DavidPozEnergy the current on the earth might be too low for the gfci to see it and trip. the tools you used were not connected to earth so it will not sense them. im not an electrician so dont take my word i have only just started looking in to gfci's in america and rcd and rcbo's in uk.

[@shohankhan8369]

The sound might be coming from the transformer for over load.

[@ScubaJamaica]

Did you ground the case to a real Ground? or did you leave it floating?

[@bruceboyles1895]

That voltage between common / ground is not good I would think.

[@lakewkidane7340]

It's totally great job i appreciate what you have shown us .Thanks Lakew Kidane from Ethiopia Addis Ababa

[@joelcrocker1094]

I would say their is still power in the compositors in the unit

[@electroman982]

JFYI NEC states "Shall be listed" those lugs you drilled out were UL listed until the moment you drilled them out...after the drilling job aka no longer UL listed. Once you modify a listed product it is no longer listed and thus a code violation if used!!

[@DavidPozEnergy]

Thanks. You are 100% right. I would not use those lugs in a permanent setup.