Green Unit Tier List | Total War: Three Kingdoms

[@NTLuck]

Let's face it. All you need is a full retinue of Spear Guards, a couple of Mounted Lancer Militia and 2 Trebuchets to conquer all of China

[@leefoster222]

Sad and boring truth.

[@hello_world704]

No archers?

[@Confederate-hj2dc]

I like to either go for that army plus four archers, or an all Calvary army because believe me Calvary is super effective in wiping out whole units in seconds.

[@gme_to_the_moon-v1p]

It will only work in single player mode.

[@phuocphatngo4758]

@@gme_to_the_moon-v1p 90% total war players never play online 😂

[@whenpigsinvade]

S: Heavy Spear Guards, Protector of Heaven A: Azure Dragons (on Sentinel, Commanders, Strategists only), Spear Guards, B: Ji Militia, C: Heavy Ji Infantry, Spear Warrior D: Imperial Gate guards, Ji Infantry, Peasant Band

[@DerPolygonianer]

One might argue that Imperial Gate Guards are C because you will get them anyways if you want Azure Dragons and thus the Reform Requirements don't matter as much. But at that point you already have Azure Dragons and Protectors of Heaven to choose from so why would you use the Gate Guards. Also, Gate Guard sounds much less impressive then Protector of Heaven does.

[@kuoh13]

You're doing god's work, my friend. Please do the same thing to his bandit video, nanman, and 8 princes videos. (In that order of priority.)

[@abdurrahmantuaf3574]

Imperial Gate guards = You took away everything from me! Protectors of Heaven= I don't even know who you are?

[@arseneken]

Couple points: 1) green generals can get both retinue speed and charge+mighty knock back bonuses, which makes a spearman charge absolutely devastating especially on a downhill 2) hollowed square and circle formations are great when ambushed

[@GotirisLp]

Another difference between shielded non shielded spear units is the amount of anti cav damage bonus they get. There are mods to display that stat. Edit: Because I was curious about the actual numbers I looked it up so here it goes: Units with long spears (Peasant Band, Spear warriors) get +9 anti cav bonus Unit with short spears (Spear guards) get +7 Ji units get +5 Glaive units +3 Only outliers are Protectors of heaven with +5 despite being Glaive units, because they need the stat buff. For purple units zhanmajian get +5 and pearl dragons the standard Glaive +3. Also red units follow the same rules. So +9 for spear (only Azure Dragons get +7) and +5 for Ji.

[@nageladon9091]

Dude I love how detailed you are. This game deserves more attention.

[@ReviveHF]

I would to to elaborate about Ji Militia: Liu Bei faction benefits the most from Ji Militia. In the late game, when you built top tier Shu Han Tax collection building, your Ji Militia will be fully replenish within 1 turn while the AI have to take 4 turns to be fully replenish. On the other hand, after you build top tier conscription building, your Ji Militia will gain level 7 veterancy, and they are even more cost effective than the Ji Infantry and Heavy Ji Infantry. When I played as Liu Bei, I always use Ji Militia for main frontline and flanking attacks, while higher tier infantries and cavalry providing support just like the Oda clan from Shogun 2.

[@SeriousTrivia]

That’s a very narrow case. It’s like saying Sun Ce has double charge bonus so lancer militia has higher charge than imperial units from any other faction. It doesn’t affect ranking of the unit as it is just faction bonuses added on top of the base values

[@dragondynastywarrior506]

The spear guards are incredible. I've just won a pyrrhic victory against Yuan Shao. He had 2 full stacks and a half stack against my 3/4 stack. We encamped and got attacked from 2 directions. The spear guards held the enemy at the gates while the towers very slowly whittled down the enemies. The spear guards broke in the end, but by that time the enemy casualties were sky high and their soldiers exhausted. My Ji militia, fresh from the centre of the camp, easily wiped them out. The enemy archers wasted all their ammo on the spear guards, who probably blocked most of it, so the Ji were in no danger from arrows

[@AWearyExile]

I kinda miss Ji units being all-rounder type units while the spearmen were more specialized anti-cavalry. I feel like they could use a tiny boost to melee evasion to be slightly better against non-cavalry and maybe take away a tiny bit of their anti-cavalry power. They're so iconic to the period I just like having them in my armies.

[@100thdragoon]

I feel like the two handed polearm units should get a 20% missile evasion - historically pike formations actually tended to be fairly immune to archers - which would go a way towards making polearm units a viable choice vs. Spear Guards.

[@dragondynastywarrior506]

I have a soft spot for the Ji infantry (not militia or heavy, the medium one) because of the film Red Cliff hahaha. You're right they are iconic. The reason I use them is because sometimes I don't want to "think" about my frontline composition too much, just throw in a line of Ji knowing they can deal with cavalry and infantry. They can do ok against swords, even though they will eventual lose a slogfest to swords, they will hold the line long enough for cavalry to work their magic. With a lack of range defense, I would normally take out enemy archers with melee cavalry. Once you get a couple of Sabre cavalry behind enemy lines, their archers are as good as dead. Then you simply get those same cavalry to turn and smash into the enemy infantry from the rear.

[@jackrabbit5212]

Actually Champions are very good for their own retinues in romance mode. They completely counter the biggest threat to them (other generals)

[@GOML1112]

38:22 they also...? the suspense is killing me

[@SeriousTrivia]

Just assume they have no weakness ;) it was an editing oversight and not really missing content

[@TobyTheTank]

Protector of Heaven sounds cool af too, didnt know they were so good. Ive been spamming gate guards lategame this whole time lmao

[@FullMetalXV]

your pic scared tf outta me. darius gives me low elo nightmares lol

[@philsoro491]

Azure dragons my favourite, they single handedly won 3 battles for me when all my other troops routed, I refer to them as my terminators

[@boyanpenev9822]

IMO commanders get a useful feature when commanding spears in that high ranking in the yellow attribute gives all commanded units bonus morale. This can be quite handy, especially in Records mode where there are no skills to buff or bomb leadership. For militia and the like, an extra 5-6 morale can make a significant difference.

[@plopyxX]

2:20 there is also the skill up right giving resistance to fatigue to own retenue (but useless on spear unit) 2:41 i do think there is more : -bottom middle skill giving +5 melee evasion to your own retenue -top left skill " zele" giving +10% mele damage perforant for all your army and maybe even +40% melee attaque rate but i think this is only for general. -top right skill giving +10% perforant damage for range unit in your army and +10 % fire rate for range unit if your general is commanding, so very good skill to improve your range units in your army.

[@SeriousTrivia]

Right but none of those are own retinue bonuses and the plus 5 melee evasion is only for melee infantry which are not polearm units

[@MrAilor]

Thank you for the effort you put into your videos! It's really fascinating to watch them and listen to your opinion on units, strategies, etc. This series of tier list videos are particularly interesting to me because I always had an issue with evaluating units resulting in unoptimized armies. Keep it up, you are doing great work! :)

[@BubbleShield570]

It's true that green gens does not have that many skills to reinforce green units. But they often have great bonuses for them in their personnal traits !

[@mikemac1298]

I think CA needs to tweak how some units work a bit. Historically, all these units had way more dynamic roles than portrayed in the game. I think they had Ji done right when the game first came out. With them being a jack-of-all-trades infantry. Which is what they were historically. But they changed something in how they worked in a previous patch somewhere. Now their just another anti-cav option.

[@JP-cb9sh]

I love Azure Dragons because they are armed for tough battles especially when you have 2 other brilliant non-blue generals in the same army, I once forced to battle against 3 full stack armies with 6 of them holding off waves after waves of enemies. It was the decisive battle of that legendary campaign :D

[@loganbagley7822]

Heavy Spear Guards are great for holding the enemy line in place for a hammer/anvil strategy. Plus, their shields help them block projectiles. Definitely an "S" unit.

[@justeeey]

Great analysis I can't wait for the purple one.

[@ShadowWalker-ng1it]

I have a soft spot for Azure dragons because 1 of my 1st campaign was with Zheng Jiang and never got commanders or vangards so I made champion/sentinel/strategist armies with all range units using azure dragons, hidden axes and first of the bandit queen and it was really strong sometimes I would shatter units before they get into melee thanks to fire arrow and fear.

[@100thdragoon]

Sadly they took away the Dragon units from Bandits (and basically all late game units altogether aside from a small handful), which is a bit of a mystifying decision imo.

[@Kublaioi]

how do you even get azure dragons before you get protectors of heaven? It takes awhile through reforms

[@SeriousTrivia]

@Kublaioi it’s actually one with the shortest reform path compared to all the other dragon units but it would mean you have to commit to the green tree earlier which isn’t great for your economy

[@whenpigsinvade]

38:22 spear guards don't want you to know their weakness

[@SeriousTrivia]

what weakness ;)

[@jxslayz6663]

The mechanics of the mixed units screams Medieval 3 Pavise Crossbowmen. I'm crossbowing my fingers!

[@jxslayz6663]

@Serious Trivia I'm doing a 12 in a security job. I'm binging LOL

[@levelupcastgaming]

I will rank Spear Warriors higher than Heavy Ji Infantry because SW smashes HJI. They also are cheaper to recruit and easier to research.

[@SeriousTrivia]

aren't they in the same tier? while some of the top tier ones have say this one is the best, many of the lower tiers are not ranked within the tiers but yes, spear warriors would serve you better than heavy ji infantry given the cost and value.

[@kevinchen5823]

Protectors of heaven are supposed to be the emperor elite. AI spawns full stacks of them in the late game :(

[@Kiltlord]

Quick correction for you charge resist doesn't reduced charge damage it reduces how deep into your unit the charging unit gets. So high mass cavalry or infantry doesn't get as deep into your unit as they usually would which DOES decrease the damage they do but only a minor amount unless its a VERY high mass unit

[@Kiltlord]

The regular charge reflector is also just charge reflect but for non-cavalry units

[@tadbitr2045]

Any ol' infantry with a shield, gets a like from me.

[@pyrrhusofepirus8491]

Honestly, I hate Azure Dragons because they’re just too good, they completely kill any thought I have of getting any other infantry or archers because they’re so economical and efficient. They’re why I only like Jack-of-all-trades so far as they’re either very rare, restricted, extremely expensive, or, while definitely decent in all, aren’t going to win any tournaments. So Ottoman Infantry or Dismounted Dvor from Med 2.

[@rrron]

Spear with shields are overpowered as they counter every element except metal

[@levelupcastgaming]

Spear Wall also can reflect charge damage back to infantry too.

[@caocaothedeciever]

What about shield wall with spear guards?

[@Kiltlord]

@@caocaothedeciever whenever you see charge reflector instead of charge reflection vs mounted just means infantry instead if cavalry. Same applies to charge negation. So a shield wall with swords (which gives charge negate and charge resist) won't be negating cavalry charge bonus but the cavalry unit will travel less far into your swords therefore still doing less damage but not negating it.

[@caocaothedeciever]

@@Kiltlord interesting. I did a test of jian swords charging into a ji pike wall. There was very little damage taken by the Juan swords. Was that because of the low charge bonus on jian sword guards?

[@Kiltlord]

@@caocaothedeciever that and the lacking speed/mass since your speed is another overlooked part its why yellow dragons don't obliterate units even faster than shock cav with the same charge bonus. More entities but less mass and speed.

[@rprlunn93]

Azure dragons rock

[@emilsoderman3691]

One thing I am not certain of: Most polearms naturally have Charge Reflector vs. Mounted, while the formation give straight up Charge reflector. It might need testing but I suspect the intent is that the spear-wall type formations are supposed to give charge reflection also vs. infantry.

[@emilsoderman3691]

Note how the Spear Wall says "Charge Reflector" while Hollow Square says "Charge Reflector vs. Mounted", so it's not a formation vs. unit tooltip thing.

[@SeriousTrivia]

Yes that is the intention

[@cyanide7270]

If theres one gripe i have about TW3K, its the unit to class limitation. Ive always made allrounder armies able to be used in every situation, but being forced to bring a Champion and Strategist in every single army just for those units i did want, and having to miss out on good cavalry because i cant bring a Vanguard or Commander, or a Sentinel because i want both Azures and Heavy Spear Guards.... i just hate it. Thank god for mods.

[@bakhirkhan8424]

Which mod

[@eVeNmOrEiNsAnItY]

Ah yes, azure, a famous shade of green. /s Is there a particular Chinese cultural reason for the mismatched dragon unit type colours to names (Yellow Dragons notwithstanding)? Or is it just a strange quirk of CA?

[@SeriousTrivia]

They might have been trying to refer to the four cardinal beasts with some of these but it is definitely not consistent

[@MasterZhang]

"Azure" might be them trying to translate 青 which can be green, blue, or black sometimes.

[@TormakSaber]

The dragon units are named based on the characteristic of the color that they're taking from. Dragon units are meant to be dual-color unit hybrids. For example: Onyx Dragons - "Metal" Archers with high melee evasion and good melee defense stats - Onyx for Metal. Azure Dragons - "Water" Spearmen with an archer ranged option - Azure for Water. Yellow Dragons - "Earth" Axemen with shields, high speed, high charge, morale, and mobility, mixing Melee Cav and Assault/Melee Infantry - Yellow for Earth Jade Dragons - "Wood" Shock Cav with shields, making them ranged resistant and better in prolonged melee - Jade for Wood Pearl Dragons - "Fire" Assault Infantry with Glaives and very high Charge and mobility, making them work similarly to Shock Cav but Infantry. These are a little weird because Assault Infantry are basically already Shock Cav on foot, but Pearl dragons try to take it to a further level with no shields, polearms (normally polearms are green and red) but very high melee evasion and charge. Pearls are generally characterized as pinkish-reddish in color, thus Pearl for Fire. Yellow and Pearl are a bit weird since they're Assault Infantry taking cues from cavalry archetypes, but the others are pretty solid hybrids of what they're trying to represent.

[@me-is3jv]

Great video. Thanks

[@hongwu1691]

Sun clan left the dislike and left the chat cuz they don’t have any unique champions besides occasional Ling Tong appearing lol

[@jihost2589]

Why I hated when they changed Huang Gai to a Vanguard. Could've easily left him as a champion since 1/2 of the other uniques the Sun clan gets are van.

[@hongwu1691]

Jihost ikr, like Sun clan are not known for their cavs, so why so many cav leaders😂makes no sense to me

[@Gunny55555]

Thanks for the tier list, been wondering which of the green units are generally better. Also ever plan on doing a base campaign Yellow Turban unit tier list? I have been wondering which units work best in battle, such as wondering if Youxia are worth using and me deciding if I should use Righteous Vanguards or White Wave Horseman. If I remember correctly for your Mandate of Heaven DLC Yellow Turban tier list you made Righteous Vanguards S tier, so I wonder how White Wave Horseman do in comparison.

[@SeriousTrivia]

After the Han units, I will move on to bandits, nanman, and yellow turbans

[@drew4564]

So what you are saying is wasting my reforms on green isn't a good idea 😂

[@myrten3124]

Protector of Heaven looks nice, but I just don't see a role for them - can't put them in frontline since archers will shred them, on the side I'd rather have more cav to counter enemy cav, and I don't think they would do well in chopping through enemy infantry in sieges

[@SeriousTrivia]

The thing is you can put them on the front line because they do have 35% ranged block chance and around 63% armor. Or all you have to do is as the enemy charge towards you, run one melee cavalry into the front then all the arrows goes to him.

[@myrten3124]

@@SeriousTrivia Can they hold line better than Heavy Spear Guard in turtle formation? Currently I use 6x heavy spear guard, they are great at holding frontline, but are terrible at attacking and can get killed if enemy attacks them from side

[@SeriousTrivia]

Maybe go 2-4 (2 heavy spear guards just to take the arrows) don’t turtle them as the AI will not fire at turtle units and then have more killing power with the protectors

[@timtammslamm116]

OK big dumb question but why can some of my spear gaurd turtle while others can't. What am I missing. Thanks.

[@SeriousTrivia]

Unit formations are unlocked three ways: 1. If your commanding officer (left most general is a commander, you get formations). 2. If you have a strategist in the army. 3. If you have an item that gives certain formations (for example the art of war book) Also different formations are unlocked at different general ranks. For turtle, your strategist must be rank 4 or higher.

[@timtammslamm116]

@SeriousTrivia thanks! I did not expect you to respond, and certainly not right away! I've owned Three Kingdoms for years but basically started playing a month ago. There is a lot to learn, but your tutorials and game play have helped a ton.

[@marjansimunic8558]

Perfect setup.

[@Diego000793]

Nice video!

[@Jixxor]

38:25 audio cuts out here. Do you still remember what point you made in these seconds?

[@SeriousTrivia]

it is a while ago but just listening back, I think I mean to say the attack on them is quite weak as they have low damage

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

You're missing 2 things when you talk about these units when in a commander's retinue as opposed to other generals: 1) A commander's Authority stat (their main stat) gives a passive morale buff to all units in their retinue that scales with how large their stat is (and I think it applies to the whole army if they're leading it). So they all should have higher morale than when these units are led by another general if the commander is the army leader at least. 2) When the commander is leading an army he unlocks advanced formations, which means that you don't need to bring a strategist along to get them into these formations, which can be very useful for building fast attack forces on the campaign map that don't drag around any artillery to a battlefield. Strategists are great to add to armies led by "dumber" general types (Champions, Sentinels, and Vanguards) to grant the formations to the army, but Commanders get them too so long as they're actually in command. Other than that, great video!

[@MrThuyphuc]

Can you please do a tier list of Heroes both in story (in your opinion) and in game, pleaseeeeep?

[@SeriousTrivia]

In the future

[@MrThuyphuc]

@@SeriousTrivia yayyyyyyy. Thank you! Keep it up 😜

[@omarprince724]

Azure Dragons are the best units in the game in my opinion

[@timetravelingnecromancer1051]

And they also ...... what??? Also WHATTTT!?!?!?!??!

[@sanjikaneki6226]

great guides , btw do you also have a army composition guide ? i didnt see any

[@SeriousTrivia]

It’s not out yet. Probably next week

[@sanjikaneki6226]

@@SeriousTrivia WOW super fast reply ok , i thought it was hidden on i cant see it btw when was Donj juo supposed to die ? or is it normal for him to live a long time ?

[@SeriousTrivia]

it is super rare for him to survive the scripted death event but it can happen

[@omarprince724]

I have 1 problem that I use the other unit skin

[@bobbob246]

Why would you need charge negate, fire arrows and charge speed on a green unit? Literally all of them have charge negate, all (except for AD) don't have bows and charge speed is useless on infantry. It all comes down to which type of duel general do you want.

[@SeriousTrivia]

None of them have charge negate

[@bobbob246]

@@SeriousTrivia I probably mixed it with charge reflect. Nevermind then on the whole charge negate thing.

[@davidjiang7929]

Hey Serious Trivia, can you recommend a Purple Unit counter for Protector of Heaven? They have REALLY good stats, I thought I was winning the fight unit 3 units of Protector of Heaven wiped half of my army (with purple units)!

[@SeriousTrivia]

I don't think any purple unit can counter protector of heaven...Maybe camp crusher can come close but even then, it is a losing match up (not to mention they are also faction unique)

[@davidjiang7929]

​@@SeriousTrivia oh man... it sucks that I didn't know how OP this unit is. I try to play abit and then watch your tutorial. Thank you for this amazing series! Looking forward to play WH3 with you =)

[@AlexaRobin21]

Are the Azure Dragons better at the frontline or at the flanks?

[@SeriousTrivia]

Their value is maximized if you can get them a place to fire off their arrows first. Then they are better as a defensive braced unit

[@TheMspFTW]

I like how he said he'll put the link to the blue units in da video but forgot to do that. Tsk tsk ST~

[@SeriousTrivia]

Ah let me fix that lol

[@tovarishchsimonov289]

Will there be a guide on 8 Princes units?

[@SeriousTrivia]

maybe not sure right now

[@saibala9399]

38:25 cat got your tongue.?

[@gabe75001]

For Spear Guards, what's the best formation to act as the anvil in hammer+anvil situations?

[@SeriousTrivia]

shield wall probably

[@johnheaphey4307]

love the video serious, two questions will you do a nanman tier list and do you think three kingdoms will get any more dlc

[@SeriousTrivia]

yes there will be a nanman tier list and yes there will be at least 3 to 4 more dlc for three kingdoms if not more

[@johnheaphey4307]

​@@SeriousTrivia sweet

[@EricChien95]

Where would you put Cao Cao Qingzhou unit on.

[@SeriousTrivia]

I mean these are all generic units. Faction unique have a leg up and his qingzhou units are top notch for its value so probably S tier

[@liviubostan7229]

ST,does the charge reflector work against all charging units when you are using Spear Wall? I have noticed using Heavy Ji Infantry that units that charged them were losing a bunch of morale and health when they touched

[@SeriousTrivia]

Yes

[@liviubostan7229]

@@SeriousTrivia I forgot to mention,infantry aswell? In I use Ji Infantry in Spear Wall and Zhanmajan charge them,does the Charge Reflector damage the Zhanmajan?

[@SeriousTrivia]

Yes the formation effects I think apply to all units

[@liviubostan7229]

@@SeriousTriviaThen Green units stand a chance against purple.

[@ReviveHF]

Ji Militia, Azure Dragons, Heavy Spear Guards, Spear Warriors and Imperial Gate Guards are the must have units. Ji Militia = Cheap and stubborn fighters(If reached level 10 veterancy) Heavy Spear Guards = Excellent shield missile block and melee block chance, almost impenetrable armour, very high morale Spear Warriors = Slightly more expensive than Ji Militia, high armour piercing damage(works best against high tier units), stubborn fighters(If reached level 10 veterancy), more armour than Ji Militia, best anti cav infantry in the game Imperial Gate Guards = An extremely important heavily armoured shock troops that has good missile block and melee block chance even without the shield, good melee stats, good charge bonus, decent against cav, has special ability if there's nearby imperial guard units. Azure Dragons = Jack of all trades, master of none The rest of polearm units are mediocre. This is just my opinion.

[@SeriousTrivia]

Everything imperial gate guards can do the protectors does better. Just look at the stats and protector is cheaper without the replenishment penalty

[@ReviveHF]

@@SeriousTrivia I agree with you. However, the Imperial Gate Guards Imperial synergy melee buff is massive, that's why I end up prefering Imperial Gate Guards over Protectors of Heaven. This depends on play style, Protectors of Heaven is more of backup fronline offensive unit. While Imperial Gate Guards is more of a backup flanking and backup fronline defensive role.

[@ShogunMet]

Hello guys ! Protector of heaven are available when you turned king rank, but I cannot recruit them, does it is because I don’t have a siege emperor ? Also what is the best way to deal against them ?

[@SeriousTrivia]

it available when you become an emperor so say you are playing as a governor faction, then reaching king does not spawn you an emperor seat so you must first take down one of the kingdoms and once you have an emperor seat you can start recruiting them. They are very hard to "counter". using ranged to soften them up is probably the best option you have. Crossbows are great at this job. In melee they are probably better than any unit you can throw (and add in the AI difficulty modifiers you have no chance in an one on one). Other things like juggernaut, general abilities, or well placed trebuchet shots also work.

[@ShogunMet]

Thanks man, you’re awesome !

[@vudonghai2665]

So the Charge Reflection will REFLECT the enemy's Charge Bonus back to themselves. And the Charge Negation will NEGATE the enemy's ORIGINAL Charge Damage right? @SeriousTrivia

[@SeriousTrivia]

Yes

[@vudonghai2665]

@@SeriousTrivia Another thing, can u explain to me again the meaning of the Charge Resistance? Because I feel pretty confused about that. Thank you.

[@SeriousTrivia]

So charge negate takes away all the bonus damage from the charge bonus, charge reflect allows you to damage your enemy by the same amount and charge resistance reduce the damage you take from a charge and make you less likely to get knocked down during a charge

[@vudonghai2665]

@@SeriousTrivia Got it. Thank you so much man. Great video as always

[@vcxlll]

Edit: I remembered their unit sizes wrongly.

[@SeriousTrivia]

Protectors have a regular unit size?

[@vcxlll]

Oh! I might have mixed them up with a different unit. Are militia and guards more numerous than protectors? I recall them being like 60man or 30man unit kind of thing. Haha I usually run cheaper expendable front lines that can quickly be replaced so Im not overly familiar with them

[@SeriousTrivia]

Drawy McDrawface all ten polearm units here have the same number of units per group

[@vcxlll]

Am embarrass. Will delet comment to not confuse others. Haha thank you!

[@Jguthro]

Think meant brunt not blunt :)

[@chinaman1]

Where's the 10k Sub Plaque from KZbin mate?

[@SeriousTrivia]

KZbin play buttons starts at 100K subs my friend

[@chinaman1]

@@SeriousTrivia lol I always thought it was 10k for the silver one.

[@Al-Basha_]

Are your tier lists still legit for 1.7.1 patch?

[@SeriousTrivia]

I mean the patch didn’t change anything for generals

[@Al-Basha_]

@@SeriousTrivia I honestly don't know but if you say so then I will stick to your ranking

[@blackhammer5035]

I was very disappointed when I found out the general/unit color lineup didn't really affect anything for most of the colors other than blue, and even then, the Brilliant trait is enough to make up the difference. Sure, it lets you recruit better units of that color, but you beat half the campaign on the back of militia anyway.

[@SeriousTrivia]

I mean conversely if it meant too much it really kills diversity as the game would just be a color matching game

[@blackhammer5035]

Maybe, though as it stands, there isn't much diversity. Strategists are mandatory because ranged is so incredibly powerful. Then either a commander or a vanguard for a line of spear guard. Garnish with a famous character of your choice, and that's most of my armies in every campaign.

[@SeriousTrivia]

Right if you want to play optimally that’s your army but if you want to diverge from the color scheme the punishment is too harsh so it allows wiggle room

[@blackhammer5035]

Fair point. It is nice that you have enough leeway to mess about with suboptimal characters because they are interesting people historically as opposed to always plugging in the meta color. I think my dislike of the system has more to do with strategists (well, ranged units) being relatively OP as opposed to there being an interesting melee triangle (swords/axes beat spears, spears beat cav, cav beat swords).

[@MasterZhang]

700 hours in and only now am I understanding that polearms have to be standing still to actually beat up horses, and here I was thinking that ji militia just automatically have bonus against things like cataphracts or Xiliang cav. So does that mean I actually can front charge shock cav into polearms if they're moving or loose?

[@SeriousTrivia]

Yes but AI is really fast at bracing their units so be careful

[@MasterZhang]

@@SeriousTrivia Another thing occurs to me: what exactly is meant to be the counter to Protectors of Heaven other than shooting them with multiple trebuchets with flaming shot? The first time I had to fight them I was noticing that neither jian nor saber infantry were doing it, and I'd think crossbows but they also have a 35% range block.

[@SeriousTrivia]

Not much “counters” them you either have to have some of your own or crossbowmen is probably your best bet

[@lateralus6512]

Some units have a hidden bonus vs Cavalry. There's a simple mod in the Steam Workshop that allows you to see these stats.

[@bakhirkhan8424]

Which is yari ashigaru

[@SeriousTrivia]

None of the spear units can make the yari wall power level in shogun 2

[@bakhirkhan8424]

@@SeriousTrivia man it sucks this game died in the west and none of the shogun channels made tierlists for these. Meanwhile shotgun is having a comeback. Ca should of worked on records mode to give us a much more historical han dynasty compaign perhaps against the xiong nu

[@bakhirkhan8424]

@@SeriousTrivia also shogun so boring tbh cuz u just spam yari ash

[@tubetubecommentor4795]

play total war rotk See tier list video for twrotk units Watch for 5 minutes got bored back to play twrotk 45 minutes video for a tier list?

[@SeriousTrivia]

I like to explain stuff

[@littlefrosty9793]

what about qingzhou units

[@SeriousTrivia]

first off not generic units and second off this tier list was made before fates divided

[@historyafficionado478]

Why dony you turn on the model faces for the unit cards? They look much more aesthetically pleasing imo

[@SeriousTrivia]

So I have explained this a few times before but I actually prefer the minimalist art style of the faceless unit cards as the alternative ones looks too busy for me. I also have been using these in game for over 1600 hours of game play so I am fairly used to them which also makes any changes now difficult assuming I would even want to make the change

[@historyafficionado478]

@@SeriousTrivia I see sorry for troubling you!

[@SeriousTrivia]

no worries its definitely a valid question

[@GrafvonKatze]

👍🏻

[@ivanjohnson4383]

S1打不过游侠

[@CaptainJY01]

First?

[@SeriousTrivia]

Yep!