FALLING at 12,000 feet per minute | Indonesia Air Asia flight 8501

[@GreenDotAviation]

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[@grmpEqweer]

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[@GreenDotAviation]

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[@LumbridgeTeleport]

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[@LiquidusSnakeX]

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[@noseboop4354]

Ok, I can understand the desire for sponsors on your videos. I'm willing to look at one ad segment of the sponsor. But to have two segments of the same sponsor in the video, and on top of that a text ad of the sponsor in both the video description and the pinned comment, that is an oversaturation of ads I am not willing to put up with. So with that said, I'm not watching any of your videos anymore, goodbye,

[@lacrossehilda]

I have a friend who died in this plane. She was found still strapped on her chair with her two siblings in the seabed. She probably didn't feel anything due to the high gravity from the nosedive. Looking back at her instagram, it feels surreal that i get older but she's still stuck in time in 2014. It's really really sad

[@rickrick70]

What was her name. I may know her too please chair and I'm Terribly sorry for your loss she is resting in heaven right now.

[@werren894]

@@rickrick70 it would be better if you don't ask

[@Komyeta]

Sorry to hear that...

[@withy40]

@@werren894 RIGHT! What a morbid question to ask in the comment section. Plus the "please chair" is even more bizarre.

[@elyssa44hz]

@@vbdemystified709 Sometimes you should keep stupid comments to yourself

[@superweedenjoyer]

Man... cruising at 32k feet to ascending 11k feet per minute and then falling out of the sky into the ocean all in 4 minutes. I can't imagine how terrifying this was for the passengers. RIP to the souls lost on this flight

[@GooseGumlizzard]

same thing happened to Air France 447. Same issue with pulling back in the side stick, overriding dual inputs, alternate law, etc.

[@yeeeaaahmayneee3808]

They must’ve passed out before the impact

[@leslie535]

That's crazy that the first officer did exactly what his compatriot FO Bonin did on AF 447 by not following procedures but acting out of instinct and emotion. To me the overriding theme here is no matter what the automation, the skills and training of airmen need to be constantly improved and worked on, for situations just like this. Great video as usual. 👍🏽

[@mizzyroro]

For years pilots have been expressing their scepticism of the high level of automation in the cockpit. This crash is an excellent example of why that scepticism is justified. That Airbus said upset recovery training is not needed because of the automation of their aircraft is shocking. Pilots have always said that control of the aircraft should never be shifted from the pilot to a computer. The pilot should always know what to do if or when the computer fails. Airbus showed recklessness by tying the hands of pilots and placing the control of the aircraft exclusively in the hands of their computers.

[@turricanedtc3764]

@@mizzyroro - Bear in mind that the term "automation" is probably being misused or mistranslated here. What they're talking about is likely not "automation" in the sense of the aircraft being flown without pilot input, it's a reference to the flight envelope protection logic that is built into the electronic flight control systems. Contrary to what is often assumed, this logic is extremely reliable, and it is indeed designed to provide pilots with the ability to command maximum control inputs without the risk of breaching the safe flight envelope. Airbus FBW types very rarely leave this "Normal Law" status unless several things go wrong at once due to significant levels of redundancies built into the systems - the problem here is that Airbus assumed that flight crew would not perform actions contrary to training or protocol. In this case, the pilots *did* know what to do if the computer fails (i.e. reset the computers), but the Captain took it upon himself to attempt an unauthorised procedure (pulling and resetting circuit breakers) because he'd seen it being done on the ground - and he did so because repeatedly resetting the computers had become a nuisance. The correct protocol would have been to return to origin or divert to their alternate - that should also be common sense if the aircraft is suffering from a recurring technical fault. I don't think it's fair to say Airbus "showed recklessness" - note that the reason the B737 training included upset recovery was because it does not have the flight envelope protections that the A320 has. I do think it's reasonable to say that Airbus may have underestimated the likelihood that some flight crew may perform unauthorised actions when troubleshooting, and that's why upset training did become mandatory for the A320 and other Airbus FBW types. @leslie535 - While this FO's actions are superficially similar to FO Bonin on AF447, it's important to note significant differences in the situation. AF447 degraded to "Alternate Law" purely due to external factors - namely the freezing-over of all three pitot tubes while transiting bad weather. FO Bonin absolutely fell victim to "Startle Effect", however his actions were based on a logical thought process - he misdiagnosed the abnormal sounds he was hearing due to the weather as an indication of overspeed while there was no airspeed indication on the instruments, and he knew that carrying excessive speed into bad weather and turbulence carries a greater risk of structural damage. In the case of AirAsia 8501 the degradation to "Alternate" was a result of inappropriate actions on the part of the Captain - they could quite easily have kept resetting the FACs indefinitely, and even with the circuit breakers being reset plus the degradation to Alternate, the aircraft was still perfectly capable of flying safely. There's no indication as to why the FO began to overcontrol the way he did. Another major difference is that in the case of AF447 FO Robert did call out for control to his side and presumably due to startle effect, that call was ignored. The AirAsia Captain did not make the call at all.

[@TheRealNatNat]

I was thinking the very same ! The Rio-Paris

[@Robert_N]

The Scare Bus side stick design rears it's ugly head again. The scare bus side stick designer should be bitch slapped daily. RIP to all the victims of Air Asia flight 8501and Air France 447.

[@y_sosalty7174]

How is it the fault of Airbus, when the pilots followed non-standard procedures. Also regarding the training, it was just mentioned as not mandatory, does not mean you don't do it. Blaming automation for the fault of incompetent pilots is the reason why automation is needed.

[@EvanBear]

I am so upset at how many opportunities those pilots had to stop their actions and recover their plane.

[@mdsupreme1776]

First officer killed 100+ people

[@lost4468yt]

I found this one particularly upsetting because it was such small things that would have saved this. The captain realising he's not an engineer and shouldn't be pulling random circuit breakers in flight. Both pilots freaking out over a steep but certainly not a dangerous bank, likely freaking out because they didn't associate it with alternative law, but the breakers, which likely scared them into thinking good knows what has been disabled. The FOs weird reaction to pull up. Then the captain's weird af command that was very ambiguous. The captain tapping the red button instead of holding it... The captain not shouting my controls. The FO not realising that trying to pull up was completely illogical. Airbus being arrogant enough to have it removed from training, despite the fact that alternate law exists and they knew fully well this could happen in that mode. And I'm sure more. I'm not sure I've seen another situation where so many tiny changes had the opportunity to prevent the accident. Yet all of them were missed. Truly what really needs to be instilled in pilots (and maybe even needs to be a natural character trait if it can't be trained in some people), is not to panic. As Adam Savage always says he remembers in a risky situation is "calm people live, panicked people die". When anxiety or panic set in as a pilot, the important thing to do is to calm down and let those feelings go, then calmly assess the situation (of course if it's something you need to respond to *immediately*, then your training should override your emotions anyway). So many of these crashes happen because the pilots get overrun by their emotions. And it's really something that doesn't seem to go away with experience. The accidents caused by an emotional response are almost always equally distributed over the experience and age range in my experience. Whether 25 or 55, 1000 hours or 20,000 hours. It's why there needs to be continuous training on it. The thing is that training is so hard. I'm glad more and more surprise simulator training is being done. But at the end of the day everyone knows it's a simulator. The pilots know there's no risk to them or other people. You never know how people truly react until they're actually there. Ultimately there's no telling who can really handle these situations until they're in them.

[@yo_eddie2576]

Sounds like the first officer was to blame here

[@aghaanantyab]

I think it was hard for the pilots since the weather was very bad so they couldn't see anything outside

[@squirrelhallowino29]

It all happens really fast up there

[@change_your_oil_regularly4287]

40 seconds?! That's a bloody lifetime whilst plummeting at 12,000ft/pm

[@gamerdeol2694]

@Clayson Antoons thats a bad design isnt it? While dealing with a upset recovery you'd have to remember to push a button for 40 seconds.

[@abdulazizahmed4742]

I guess the yoke control is better than the side sticks one in this case

[@maxretik]

@@gamerdeol2694 once you press the button you instantly have all control so you’d just have to remember not to let go to maintain the control. The captain probably accidentally released the button in his panicked state but he had control from the second he held that button down until the moment he released it

[@legitbeans9078]

It should be an instant toggle switch. 40 seconds can and does mean love or deeth

[@DanielSilva-gc4xz]

​@@legitbeans9078 Instant switch is a very bad idea, imagine pushing it accidentally during landing. The 40 seconds make total sense.

[@alexd43]

I have seen many youtube videos about this tradegy on other channels but the level of detail you go into and the psychology angle you take is unmatched. The fact airbus deemed upset recovery as a non-requirement is shocking.

[@rnsteve2265]

Try the Flight channel or mentour pilot. 😉

[@JosephKulik2016]

Alex D: Is it REALLY "shocking" to you that Capitalists regularly choose Financial Profit over Human Life ??? If so, then you're much too young for your Mommy to allow you to play around on the Internet !!! Shame on her !!! I'm calling CPS Right Now !!!

[@ArshdeepSingh-qn9ed]

Because they don,t expect a pilot to pull off the circuit breakers

[@annnee6818]

@@ArshdeepSingh-qn9ed There are surely many other instances where upset recovery could be vital. Having said that, I wouldn't pull circuit breakers on my fac whilst miles above ground, but I guess they got complacent. Ida made a pan pan pan landing I think, but hindsight is 20/20 and all.

[@jpizel1070]

@@ArshdeepSingh-qn9ed A pilot that can only fly an aircraft in autopilot should not be a pilot.

[@eddymison3527]

They should include this into stall check list "Check if FO pulling his stick up".

[@akhilpb9196]

Or give him a good slap to wake him up from the "deer in the headlights" mode

[@Rammstein0963.]

One of the most damning criticisms of the Airbus design, that damned side mounted control stick, can make it hard for pilots to see what each other is doing if needed.

[@grahamstevenson1740]

@@Rammstein0963. In some aircraft using sidesticks they have artificial feel to warn the pilots what the other is doing, I can't understand why this isn't considered normal practice.

[@abingdonboy]

Stall checklist? There’s no stall checklist. You recover, that’s it

[@benchodegs9100]

@@abingdonboy correct. Its a memory item

[@X1erra]

I just hate how avoidable this accident was. Truly a facepalm in all sorts of ways. Yet the moment I saw the stall being visualized it kind of makes sense how the FO had a death grip on the controls desperately trying to save the plane that he's responsible for flying... and due to the panic he never realized he's actually dooming it.

[@Celisar1]

He wasn’t trying to save the plane. He was obviously panicking and not acting rationally at all.

[@triparadox.c]

@@Celisar1 Uh, he was trying to save the plane. Otherwise, he wouldn't even be panicking. Bruh.

[@markkuuss]

very similar to the Rio Paris Air France crash

[@TheRedRaven_]

Birgenair 301 was worse I think, crashed the plane because a single air speed indicator was wrong when there was 3 other backup indicators working just fine.

[@mrhoneycutter]

@@TheRedRaven_ I have to agree, during that entire video I literally kept saying, “how can they be this stupid” multiple times. It’s genuinely baffling to me that they never bothered to check the other indicators. What even more infuriating to me though is that during takeoff the both the captain and FO acknowledged that the Captain’s indicator was reading incorrectly while the FO’s was reading normally, yet both somehow had forgotten those events occurring, and/or never considered the same problem could be effecting the indicator.

[@dubvalver]

crazy they can find a cracked solder joint after the plane has been on the bottom of the sea but not when its in the service hanger. the snowball from this tiny bit of solder is incredible.

[@SimonQuigley]

They aren't going to pull things apart to that degree. That said, I'm sure it was lead free solder, and this causes all sorts of problems like this.

[@kuro9410_ilust]

A cracked solder joint killed everyone in Air Asia 8501

[@herehere3139]

It irks me that when important things like airplanes are designed etc, that every single aspect of them, are not fool and fail proof. I know that's saying a LOT. And it's probably a near impossible task. But, there are so many failures in design that do not get addressed and fixed until it ends up killing people. Complacency kills. Such as soldering. Solder can crack, become brittle, not adhere properly, etc etc, a method of complete connection is completely safer. And have that connection backed up. I know I'm asking a lot lol. I am the type of person though that, I'd much rather things be very ugly, rather than looking sleek and hidden from sight. I want connections as fail and fool proof as possible. I'm sure this is a naive way of looking at things to certain extents. But regardless, So many times, issues are not addressed and fixed until it takes people's lives. Happens with human psychology as well. Like people not getting someone real deal mental health help until it's too late. Sorta a trend in humanity I suppose.

[@jacobvanveldhuizen4365]

how do they know it didnt crack from the fall/wreck?

[@larsalfredhenrikstahlin8012]

@@herehere3139 What? How do you make a more "complete connection" between an IC and circuit board than soldering? You could cover it in glue, but the strongest mechanical connection would still be the solder. Its like wanting a more "complete connection" between two pieces of metal that are welded together by securing them with a bolt. At some point adding anything else isn't helping. Soldering should be plenty sufficient. However, we should throw out health/environmental concerns of using lead free solder when it comes to aviation since it has been known to crack and more easily make cold joints. Just being a worse soldering medium than lead filled cancer nomnom verygood solder.

[@tehdusto]

those pilots really did everything they could to crash that plane

[@trim406]

I always had this issue as a flight instructor. Too many pilots are now taught to “takeoff” and “land” many pilots and my friends today have no idea how to actually fly an aircraft but rather put it in autopilot and hope it goes well.

[@sonicjetson6253]

that's not too encouraging to hear

[@JoFreshFrancis]

Hope?

[@bobbygetsbanned6049]

This is probably the 5th crash video I have watched where the pilot(s) apparently has no idea how lift works and that the plane needs airspeed over the wings to actually fly. I should probably stop watching because at this point I'm convinced that a large % of commercial airline pilots think flight is achieved through fucking magic.

[@animula6908]

That’s disturbing news. I’m glad I quit flying a while back. Now I’m just worried about being underneath those pilots when they crash.

[@kma86]

It's funny that you mentioned this because I was thinking about having this same attitude as I am now playing "Real Flight Simulator" on my phone - currently having aviation fever after watching too many Green Dot Aviation videos 😂, and the closest to being an actual pilot is by playing a simulator for one. I thought, "there should more than just take-off and landing for this. What if the autopilot fails and I have to fly manually?" Along the way, since the autopilot was engaged, I took the time to monitor every instrument in the flight deck and went through the flight checklist many times for the fun of it. The 30 minutes-or-so journey felt too ideal that I might disengage the autopilot one of these days lol

[@pewpewpewx1557]

Just like air France flight 447 one pilote pushing down the other pulling up Rip to all of them

[@slash4555]

I was thinking the same exact thing too!

[@tanweihao2001]

It was not that reason both pilots were pulling up there was just a something that pushes the plane down the pilots tried and they stalled to crash

[@wadehiggins1114]

Yup

[@lost4468yt]

Airbus need a very very clear message or light for when this is happening. It has been involved in multiple accidents now. Pilots flying should also be much more. Confident in hitting the red button to force take over from the other pilot.

[@PilotGery1]

Maybe its time to implement FFB to the sidestick ?

[@autumnleaves2766]

Reminds me a lot of Air France 447 in June 2009. Amazed that "upset" recovery wasn't part of the training for Airbus flight crew. I really feel that this crash was totally avoidable, as was AF 447.

[@ZainHoda]

Also the ability to have conflicting inputs seems like a design flaw in Airbus aircraft. 447 had this same problem too where the panicked FO was making incorrect input while the captain was making the correct input on his side stick. Both these crashes happened under ALT LAW.

[@bobbyricigliano2799]

This one was perhaps worse, as the Captain was in command the whole time. AF 447 had the Captain walking into an unfolding nightmare that began while he was on his rest break.

[@petermuller5800]

@@bobbyricigliano2799 In my opinion, there is a clear flaw in Airbus' instrument displays and the way they react to stalls. Once the airspeed gets too low, it disappears from the PFD and only shows "SPD". The stall warning also goes silent. Only at 60+ kn the stall warning sounds again. This confusing behaviour did not only cause the AF 447 pilot to pull the stick, but also the Air Asia copilot. And even the Air Asia captain was confused by his speed "disappearing", as can be seen by his last desperate actions to switch the PFD source. The experienced captain was just as confused as the copilot. I recommend you to watch the FDR recording, to get a glimpse of what the pilots saw: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHWXoaCKaLqlrs0

[@caitlynm.9413]

Yes! I actually had to go back and check the title partway through this video to see if I was watching an Air France video. Just heartbreaking.

[@iitool]

Another captivating video. It’s easy to judge with a calm eye but the startle factor of an unexpected upset can so easily throw a pilot into paralysis and into becoming strapped to a plummeting aluminium coffin. This is the exact type of scenario we train over and over to recover from. This is one of the times where well practiced, muscle memory instinct, should kick in. It doesn't matter whether it’s a $100mil highly automated modern jet or a Cessna 150 tail dragger... rudder against rotation, nose down to break the stall, allow the aircraft to start flying again, moderate the dive so you don't overspeed, watch out for secondary stalls as you pull up. In fact, sometimes doing nothing can be the safest choice! Taking a moment to absorb your current situation then letting your intuition and training kick in can make the difference between life and death. This highlights the decisions you make early on in your flying career about good "airmanship" and setting a high standard for yourself. This will filter down the road to this very type of incident where it will be the difference between becoming an anecdote or an obituary. You are building a strong brand here Emmett! You are right on point for responsible, mature aviation content that’s about reflection and learning. It won’t be long till you're being sponsored by Foreflight or Bose aviation!

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thanks for this comment Danny, and for the kind words!

[@christerry1773]

Although I agree with the sidestick methodology, not having any feedback force can complicate things when in situations like this. It’s essentially a lifeless joystick that feels the same on the ground or at 40k ft

[@ang47]

if u panic easily, dont become a pilot. tyvm

[@dlcpack9358]

always shocks me how much of an impact psychology and crew communications has on fight, rip to all passengers and crew

[@legitbeans9078]

This is very similar to the airfrance crash, one pilot kept pulling back the stick for some reason 👀

[@billykulim5202]

1st cause of this crash is the pilot using non standard procedure to disable the breaker, causing the computer to switch off, and following letter we foundout those pilot only can fly with auto pilot on, when become manual, they are clueless

[@dylanbennett958]

Omg I’ve noticed that here recently from binge watching all his videos. I’m hearing medical and psychological issues I’ve never even heard of on this channel. But I mean it truly does make sense due to the situation. The pilot ESPECIALLY back in the day could be an unbelievable and still somewhat is and unbelievably stressful thing especially during an emergency trying to troubleshoot and get things fixed and one thing after another start to fail. Think about what that would do to your mind and stress. Well we unfortunately know the outcome of most of these because if you notice a trend all the pilots who haven’t let shit get to then just yet!

[@andybaubau5961]

Poor hr selection i would say...raccomandation too

[@yggdrasil9039]

OMG a virtual repeat of AF447. Unbelievable. I heard about this Air Asia crash but never knew the details. Holy moley, surely after a tragedy like AF447 you would think that a second accident of the same type would be impossible.

[@Realclassicaltexan]

That's what I'm saying, literally the same sequence of events

[@mohamuudsheikhnuur273]

@@Realclassicaltexan cause they are same from France nationality 😭😭😭

[@christerry1773]

They were similar in the way pilots responded, but the cause was completely different. 447 was a much more challenging and confusing scenario

[@Qwerty-db1js]

@@humayrafaizah1428 Should be 5 years later, no? This happened in 2014.

[@GooseGumlizzard]

they should use the center yoke like Boeing , the side stick is such a problem

[@dammitamber]

I don’t know why I love this type of content. I’m not particularly into aviation stuff, I don’t follow this stuff, but it’s so fascinating. Thanks for reading out the information instead of using text. Really helps me keep up since I love to listen in the background.

[@GreenDotAviation]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@ehilton7044]

Yes the narration is really important thank you

[@optician53]

Automation unquestionably has made flying absurdly safe, and nowhere so much as on the flight deck. However, it has also to some degree separated pilots from the basics of just flying the aircraft. Sadly, more than a few times this sort of stall has victimized pilots, and their passengers, who in that moment of panic, forgot to fly the plane ... or at least affirmatively transfer control to a pilot who understands the problem and can fly the plane in that moment.

[@wilsjane]

Exactly, but pulling breaker in flight gives me serious doubts about the captain. Taking control himself would have taken time and created a situation where no one would have known who was doing what. Clearly instructing the first officer would have been a better option, leaving him clear to monitor the entire situation. To me, lack of communication was the biggest problem.

[@phillylarkin.s1930]

The a380s are renowned for this

[@assrammington7961]

@@wilsjanehis first officer was an absolute idiot. Another Frenchman who LARPed as a pilot and killed hundreds of people just like Air France 447 dude

[@cedricroney1475]

It's unbelievable how these pilots don't do their due diligence and prioritize lives over their own convenience.

[@codymegehee299]

@@cedricroney1475 Is it really?

[@tipptop9]

What a series of unfortunate events, its amazing to think that the tech issue was going on for months without replacement of the computer. Its also easy to say why didn't the crew notice they were counter acting each others inputs, but I guess their aircraft was all over the place and its difficult to be logical in that atmosphere

[@animula6908]

Not enough time to figure it out.

[@isbestlizard]

No 'special upset training' was required. ANYONE flying a plane should know how to get out of a stall. You'll have practised them over and over in your little cessna. ITS THE SAME THING. Why do pilots on big jets forget how to fly the fucking plane and crash it?

[@cjabaz]

But, to be fair, they did not know they were in a stall and they were led to believe the A320 does not stall as the computer systems will not allow it to stall. Suddenly getting so many alarms at 34,000ft and an extreme bank can shake any pilot. The Capt was wrong to pull those circuit breakers, and the consequence caught the 1st officer who was flying by surprise.

[@bobkile9734]

Listen once again to the crew experience. You will notice that the first officer did not have any experience flying before joining Air Asia as a pilot. That is not uncommon outside the US. It’s something I think is dumb as hell.

[@cjabaz]

@@bobkile9734 So how does one get experience if they don't fly for the first time? Even those in the US were novices at one point in their career!

[@bobkile9734]

@@cjabaz Good question. I think they just spend a ton of time in simulators. And sure, in the US every pilot was a novice, however US pilots spend time in cessnas and King Airs and MD-80s before jumping in a 737 simulator.

[@X1erra]

I highly doubt there's such a thing as practicing in Cessna in Indonesia...

[@advanceromance2656]

After the stall, it descended at 20,000 ft. per minute. An absolutely horrifying freefall. R.I.P. to all the innocent people.

[@alangarland8571]

Circuit breakers being pulled? Surely not normal operating procedure in any flight!

[@AnotherPointOfView944]

Seen this happen on another fatal crash video. The Captain/FO simply copied what he saw a maintenance engineer whilst on the ground, and thought it would be fine whilst flying. Lesson is: Dont do anything that is not in standard operating procedures. Why not just stick your feet out the cockpit side window and see if that helps.

[@stevenwest000]

No but when approaching a thunder storm with the same warning continuing every few minutes it’s easier for us to criticise. They didn’t even have correct training. I’ve also seen this side stick issue before where both pilots are doing the opposite.

[@banjojohn1489]

@@stevenwest000 It makes me wonder, if the captain said anything to the FO before deciding to pull the circuit breakers? Because it seemed like the FO wasnt even aware he should be expecting any loss of autopilot capability.. you know, a simple " im going to reset the flight augmentation computer. Put your hands on the controls, I need you to be ready to fly manually for a second. Ready? Ok, 1, 2, 3 pull" I know it was totally against regulations to do a reset like that, but it doesnt seem like it would have been an inherently unsafe fix to attempt if both pilots had discussed it and had the same mental map of what was about to happen.

[@garden0fstone736]

If you ain’t pullin circuits mid flight you ain’t blackkkk!

[@tracytrawick322]

Outstanding video, graphics, script, telling the story, selling the importance of the story, all and more well done. First watch of the night, small chance that it can get any better than what I just saw.

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you! 😊

[@double-r508]

I’m pretty sure that’s MSFS 2020

[@thesocialartsclub9095]

Strange that the pilot and copilot were not communicating during such a critical moment. I thought they communicate every single thing they do.

[@annereynolds66]

I did too . Thought at least they say out loud what they are going to do

[@davidpowell3347]

Should have been "I have the plane" (Get your Fxxxxng hands off the controls!)

[@LoneSheWolf09]

My thoughts exactly. Without communication you’re pretty much up the creek without a paddle.

[@darth3261]

Dumb and dumber

[@URUNicoM]

One has to wonder how clear their communication could even be, since they were an Indonesian and a Frenchman. Did the Frenchman learn the language when hired by the airline? Otherwise, they were probably communicating in English, which French people are very well known for sucking at that. And from the pilots "pull down" instruction we can conclude his English skills were also below standard. I get it, learning languages can be hard and it's practically impossible to learn to speak with a perfect pronunciation, but standards should be WAY higher in aviation. When you listen to ATC recordings, some people have such thick accents that it's unacceptable. This is not the first time poor English skills have caused or contributed to a deadly crash, so acting all offended or ignoring the issue is not a solution.

[@liamcelt1321]

the old one guy pushing down the other guy pulling up problem- they really need to solve this.

[@user-e-idk]

That also happened in boeing planes (egyptair 990 and airfrance 11

[@abcdef-cs1jj]

My idea would be to simply override the input from the copilot if both pilots are inputting at the same time but I'm not a pilot so if that is inpractical for some reason, how about this: If you input on your stick, the stick is iluminated in green. If you input but the other pilot does the same and nothing happens as a result, both sticks are iluminated in red.

[@eliahr11]

​@@abcdef-cs1jj(ik comment is a yr old at the moment) The Airbus aircraft have a button in the side stick called the priority button which essentially will override any action of the other side stick, I'm baffled at the fact the captain didn't press the button and yelled "my controls" or something along the lines of that while pressing the button, but it didn't happen, this flight being a literal copycat of AF447

[@LichaelMewis]

The copilot had no business being in a cockpit.

[@srinitaaigaura]

When people freeze up and panic, they almost always end up doing the opposite of what they need to do. The Airbus uses a sidestick which makes the cockpit more practical but it also means you never know what the other pilot is trying to do.

[@hollywhat_official]

I always thought that the function of the copilot is only to replace the pilot in emergency situation such as heart attack etc, never knew that both pilot and copilot work together in a flight,, and it is horrifying cause there are many accidents caused by their miscommunication. I think they should make new arrangement on this pilot/copilot roles, or at least make a new system which will let the pilot know what the copilot doing and vice versa.

[@srinitaaigaura]

@@hollywhat_official The pilot monitoring actually has more workload overall than the pilot flying.

[@ursokind]

Such a high quality video and crystal clear explanation. Thank you. I can never forget this event forever. I lost my friends there (they were the active cabin crew).

[@rebeccajodhiwilliams182]

😓

[@ederss7]

The first officer panicked in the same way as his compatriot in the AF447 flight.

[@mohamuudsheikhnuur273]

Same are France nationality 😭😭😭😭

[@jeffa4822]

he should not dream to become a pilot

[@Qwerty-db1js]

@@mohamuudsheikhnuur273 Was totally shocked to know he's French! Didn't want to be judgmental but still......... wow

[@GooseGumlizzard]

@@mohamuudsheikhnuur273 yeah, thats what "compatriot" means

[@adshdhhhd7783]

After the captain made a stupid decision? The captain didn't fix the issue either. They were both responsible and stop putting his nationality forward please, it has nothing to do with the incident.

[@endoetz]

My friend was one of the victims, along with his wife and child. About a week before the accident, I often dreamed about him. I find it strange because I haven't had any contact with him in years. Why do I suddenly think of him? Weird.. And then I forgot about it, until my friends started talking about him on facebook. I was like "OMG! 😱". After that, I start thinking about my weird experience. Perhaps it was a premonition? Not only once or twice have I experienced the same thing as this. I had a dream about someone, then about 1-2 weeks later that person died.

[@Vyansya]

Human minds are weird, but its not unusual. We, myself included, often have dream premonition. It happened to me a few times to people around me who'll die a few days later. Life is interesting and unexplainable that way.

[@deistormmods]

@@Vyansya God gives you these dreams.

[@davidfinley9429]

You mentioned that the Dual Input was drowned out by the Stall warning. It is interesting to note that the audio warning does not even sound when the higher priority Stall Stall is sounding. It's not a matter of being drowned out, but completely absent.

[@NeverStopGivingUp]

Ikr, I don't understand why such important warnings aren't accompanied by visual warnings such as lamps (like Master Caution) or a COMPLETE list of active warnings on the ECAM or a seperate screen. I know it could add distraction to the cockpit environment, but what is worse?

[@biggiouschinnus7489]

Between this and Air France 447, I'm beginning to think that the sidestick was a grievous error in terms of ergonomics. Pilots need to be able to *feel* what their colleagues are doing.

[@mattoc7567]

The quality of analysis here is outstanding. When you compare this accident to the previous incident video on the Estonia A320 (same aircraft) it’s a reminder that humans can be incredibly intelligent and innovative while at the exact same time be inept and myopic… such small margins! That’s why training for all eventuality’s no matter how small is a critical and valuable investment, not just aviation in my opinion!

[@joe36451]

Thanks! Always looking forward to your videos. Really appreciate the consistent quality

[@Sweaty__Sheep]

Why would you pay for content that's free?

[@joe36451]

@@Sweaty__Sheep Just to support the channel.

[@dann5480]

@@Sweaty__Sheep haha salty jealous man

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you! 🙏🏼

[@PerthPlaneSpotting100]

The fact they were falling at 12,000 feet is unheard of!! And they had so many opportunities to recover their aircraft!!! On a side note this is a great channel and I’m surprised it doesn’t have more subs!

[@1wor1d]

If you're a thrill seeker, bungy jumping, big wave surfing, fighting a tiger bare handed then get your holiday off to an adrenaline pumping start, fly AirAsia!!

[@manuinjapan]

is AirAsia that bad ?

[@Vyansya]

@@manuinjapan Adam Air is worse, Lion Air is worse. Air Asia is... "fine" compared to them. The bar is very low though. If you came to Indonesia, i suggest you to take Garuda/Citilink for the safest indonesian aviation.

[@indianfan1029]

I don't want to any airline that has 0 kg free luggage policy. It just shows the greedy mentality of the airline. Paying a few bucks for my luggage may not be life-threatening, but flying with them certainly can be.

[@mh-ki2dv]

I can’t believe the pilots did this. It’s really simple as FAC.

[@davidfoley3510]

Holy FAC.

[@RipRoaringGarage]

I do like the renderings. We all know TFC, hes been around doing this style of video for a while, but your visualizations are top notch (plus, the shaky cam is just enough to add realism without being annoying). Obvious, you also know a bit or two, and it shows. I'm not an Airbus guy, I worked on Boeing (707s) and McDonnel Douglas (DC-10s) and even on episodes with those types you are thorough without getting too boring (I mean I wouldnt be bored, but lets face it..most would lol) This incident though was pretty nasty. The poor training is astonishing. This, along with I think the Estonian training flight do showcase the importance of ECAM warnings, and not taking them lightly, and declare a mayday and land ASAP.

[@fish_birb]

I'd argue GDA's content is much better thanks to his thorough explanations which are integral of his aviation accident series from the ground up (as TFC only started adding narration just several years back and they were originally a FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2019 HD 4K 60FPS content creator until they realize aviation accident reenactments gains more engagement). Also gotta love how Microsoft Flight Simulator has come a long way to bring this level of fidelity towards the reenactment as well.

[@RipRoaringGarage]

@@fish_birb True. I remember following TFC for a long time, and no hate towards him (I do like both channels and watch them, and with how I lack time, with my own channel, its saying something when I MAKE time lol). But yeah, the quality shows with Green Dot. But more than that, there were a few vids with TFC that maybe bely his lack of aviation background. Sure, you have Airforceproud95 (aka Air potoato lol) and he only recently began flight school but he is a funny dude, and does strictly sim stuff, but its not mandatory for a good channel, but the Eastern China episode was rushed...I can see him attempting to go into more of a news format but thankfully there arent enough crashes for that to be sustainable! Plus, VASAviation is the boss with ATC level stuff. Saying all this shows that as far as a "market", its pretty saturated, but GD still found a way. Plus, his voice is very good, not to impersonal like Discovery channel stuff, but not in your face "influencer" style.

[@ProHobbyjogger]

Mentour Pilot engaged me with his focus on the mental and emotional state of the pilots (on moody videos).

[@RipRoaringGarage]

@@ProHobbyjogger I have mentioned this before about Mentour. I dont think hes a bad guy but, he goes into things he has no business discussing, like geo politics, engineering, and even maintenance practices that he doesn't understand. But its the political things regarding aviation that he wanted to capitalize on, and got them so MASSIVELY wrong. To be it felt as if we wanted to make a quick buck.

[@ProHobbyjogger]

*many videos

[@azawms]

Thanks for making this video. I actually covered this story as an Indonesian translator at CNN and I remember, devastating was an understatement. RIP

[@neilhughes9566]

It's awful to imagine what the passengers went through

[@nofood1]

most already passed out before impact if that makes anyone feel a little better..

[@Jez2008UK]

@@nofood1 Why would they have passed out? The pilots didn't pass out.

[@rea7176]

@@Jez2008UK well, they are in a different situations. The passengers is just sitting there helplessly, screaming in panic, thinking about their terrifying fate. The pilot who is also in panic, but still trying keeping their mind together to recover the plane, so they didn't pass out from their overanxiety and panic, that's my guess.

[@get_it8473]

@@rea7176 most people dont pass out from a panic so thats false

[@whoisayou7498]

@@nofood1 nope they were aware the whole time. Very aware

[@tomhutchins7495]

Automation scares me. It encourages users to turn their brains off and surrender agency to a computer, and the clever people who design it tend to encourage this behaviour because of how well it works in normal operation. The problem is that when something goes wrong, the user has to overcome a greater cognitive load in order to start responding because they need to start tracking more information.

[@lqfr8813]

there are ppl who already got too comfortable with the help of AI-help that once the situation suddenly requires their raw skills in their jobs, they become helpless without the machine

[@laurenanderson7330]

It is a problem, but I do think that overall, accidents are reduced through automation.

[@FalcoGer]

In a fixed wing aircraft, you usually have a lot of time, particularly such a massive aircraft as a passenger jet with a lot of inertia, to respond to any kind of issue. Gut reflexes will only make things worse. You almost always have a few seconds to get oriented, if not a few minutes.

[@doggonemess1]

I'm not a pilot. I've flown lots of simulators. Because I'm not a pilot, I completely lack the training involved with recovering from an upset or handling the complex automation on modern aircraft. If I was in that situation, the first thing I would have done was look at the horizon indicator and then make the plane level. I get the feeling that pilots are trained so much to work with the automation that they don't default to manual techniques by instinct anymore.

[@gegebubsjnsu6505]

🧑‍🍼🍼

[@davidt8087]

That's not enough. The kind of stall they were in needed nose down at about 60% power. 100% power would make you go down too fast and make it harder to level it out after sufficient speed.

[@followme8238]

How could two people, sitting 4 feet apart in a cockpit, both have hands on the stick actively trying to correct the plane and not say something out loud like ‘damn I’m trying to pull the nose up but it just isn’t working’ or ‘damn, gotta get the nose down to get out of this stall’???

[@sduk451]

Crazy isn't it. Air France 447 is one of the worst, where two pilot's literally don't mention the stall alarm, despite it going off 35 times, they had same issue with sidestick and total lack of CRM

[@TheTechSupportGuy]

Criminally bad piloting.

[@baygeebob7536]

Two words: Poorly trained.

[@onepalproductions]

@@baygeebob7536 That's four words.😄

[@zeeqayum4834]

I agree with you but when panic sets in, simple logic can go out the window.

[@Heart2HeartBooks]

As an Electronic Engineer, I knew almost instantly that it must have been either a cold solder joint or cracked solder joint. As a pilot I knew the Pilot messed up by not saying: "I have control"

[@khaosai]

A sad tale. I am amazed that the Captain amassed over 20,000 hours in those 30 years having spent 10 years in the military.

[@bastianrivero]

Imagine how many pilots are flying right now not having the proper training 🫣

[@ravenfeader]

Unbelievable set of events and actions on this flight by both pilots . The senior pilot never took control of the plane and the co pilot acting like he knew nothing about flying dynamics . Laurel and hardy out of control with all those souls on board .

[@andrewkelly628]

I love your posts. They are always so professional and well produced. Thank you.

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you! 🙏🏼

[@holylingus]

Its really a shock to see that the co pilot wasn't able to even fly the plane manually for a few minutes or even seconds ...

[@Soh90]

The ad placement was freaking hilarious 😂😂

[@redryder1146]

Another outstanding video thank you so much for all the time and effort you put into them keep up the great work!!!

[@krflies9840]

When I heard about this crash, my first thought was, “oh no, another AF447.” True enough, although the only difference was an originating issue that snowballed into the crash.

[@BritishBeachcomber]

Who has control? *Failure of Crew Resource Management.*

[@Secretlyanothername]

I'm going to say that this was 95% a CRM issue. The captain should have taken over as the pilot flying and that should have been made clear. The other factors were merely contributors.

[@offsidev6059]

Holy shit, that FO was completely untrained on how to actually fly a plane. It goes beyond simply not being trained well enough, he seemed to have lacked the common sense and any grasp on how the plane actually stays in the air except by the magic of the autopilot. Tragic how preventable this accident was.

[@adiakiyes6354]

The captain in command should tell the first officer "I'm in control" and perhaps they recover.

[@oanagonzalez4653]

Wow, whatever made the captain think he can start fixing the plane while flying it…..mind-boggling…

[@assrammington7961]

It wasn’t him who crashed the plane tho. If his FO had more than a 2nd graders knowledge of flying an airplane it wouldn’t have stalled out

[@ang47]

@@assrammington7961 dont even need knowledge, its like common sense. Guy was a darwin award level r3tard, no idea how he became a pilot

[@stevensrocks798]

This channel seems to do two useful things. Firstly, it provides us with well thought out, well edited, and gripping scenarios. Secondly, its a really good way to fund the cost of all the extras in Microsoft Flight Simulator 😅

[@Silvertip1958]

I use to fly, but I don’t anymore. You never know when idiots will be in the cockpit. I had two scares on flights where I thought we were dead, but no more.

[@luisferreira7654]

Green Dot Aviation just posted a new video! ... automatic thumbs up!

[@ItsPrivateCC]

So many accidents for only one phrase: I have control!

[@rnp1785]

Can you imagine the horror in the passenger cabin.

[@jojo-ru8go]

fr 🥺

[@petermuller5800]

The left bank & steep climb must have felt like heavy turbulence. The stall, you dont notice it once you're in it. Wings are level, engines sound normal. The rapid vertical descent isnt noticable once you're in it. So the bang on the ocean surface must have come as a surprise, and killed everyone instantaneously.

[@plentyofsalmonellasir425]

@@petermuller5800 I am always curious when someone says "killed everyone instantaneously" every time there is impact. I understand it is like hitting concrete at high speed but is it possible someone may have survived the initial impact?

[@petermuller5800]

@@plentyofsalmonellasir425 Highly unlikely. The plane hit the water with a vertical speed of 12.000 - 20.000 feet per minute (100 m/s). Anyone must have died instantaneously upon impact (broken neck/skull, vertebrae fractures, broken bones etc.). Imagine sitting in a chair with a seatbelt on & falling from a high rise building & hitting the concrete floor. Just look at the pieces of the wreckage, to imagine the sheer forces of the crash.

[@plentyofsalmonellasir425]

@@petermuller5800 Still how can we be sure everyone died on impact though.

[@StarkGER]

As soon as i saw the first shot of the flightdeck i knew what plane you're using there. Gotta love the Fenix

[@de_sh0t114]

It’s a beauty for sure!

[@josephconnor2310]

A fantastic video on this unfortunate air accident. Thank you.

[@ang47]

unfortunate? this was peak r3tardation

[@dianericciardistewart2224]

Such a tragedy that truly did not need to happen. RIP to all. Excellent presentation and explanation of what happened with outstanding graphics as well. Thank you for your research and dedication. Outstanding!! 👍✈✈👍

[@TheRealNatNat]

I'd feel way safer if I knew that every commercial pilot was flying small planes on their free time or had started as small planes pilots or jet fighters pilots. Rather than learning in a simulator.

[@thebeylaflenory]

Right I believe my flight not to many years ago had the same weird feeling so we were landing but I felt like it was way too low I could see trees and a little of the ocean or may not. The landing was very hard and most of us went forward so I knew that I wasn’t tripping at all with my worry. Then the co pilot laughed to play it off but I thought it was unprofessional as heck. People are on the plane this isn’t really the time to try new things or what not do that when it isn’t any souls on the plane. I have to fly soon I’m real iffy you never really know what goes on in ppl head.

[@onimikola]

The Pilot is Former Jet Fighter Pilot in Indonesian Army...

[@tvflight7858]

11:50 Correct me if I'm wrong, but while the dual input warning was overwritten by the stall warning, it should still iluminate on the fcu below chrono and it's hard to miss it's right in front of you

[@neillchippett655]

They probably could'nt see a thing due to panic.

[@dragonsasori1108]

First time here thanks for the information of this aircraft learned much 🙏🙇‍♀️

[@GreenDotAviation]

Welcome!

[@aravindkramesh]

Please upload more videos. It's alright even if many other channels have covered an incident. Your videos are much better.

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you! Much more on the way 🙏

[@markojirasek]

@Green Dot Aviation that training is called UPRT. It's prevention and recovery, not the other way around. First prevention, then recovery. Yes, UPRT is a common standard now, usually once per year. This accident contributed greatly to having such standard. Flying an uoset airliner jet, or even stalled jet, is definitely far different in terms of recovery compared to some other basic small plane. Many comments were wondering how could this happened. They never experienced hand flying at such high altitude. Plus, without FACs, the aircraft was super sensitive to any flight control input. Unless one experience this, one is unable to understand. Not all blame is on pilots. They suddenly, unexpectedly found themselves beyond the limit of their training and experience.

[@TunjungUtomo]

I live in Surabaya, I fly on Air Asia of the same route a number of time. Slight correction about the way the animation depicts the sky color. Here in Surabaya at 5 AM, you can already see the sun and the sky is already blue colored

[@jrhartley6742]

Such great production as ever, thankyou. Rewatched several times. Truely disturbing story mimicking 447

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you Simon! Glad you liked it.

[@geezberry8889]

this is why i try to avoid flying at night. situational awareness is greatly diminished when you have zero visibility

[@thomasstandish8848]

Just subscribed. Came over from V1's channel. Thank you for the terrific work you do.

[@nonyabiz9553]

i just don't understand how it is at all possible for the first officer to be such a horrible airman the second he lost computers. absolutely insane.

[@Oi-mj6dv]

Because now a days pilots need to remind themselves to do some manual flight out of good practices. You are no longer required to be good at manual flight. Just look at air asiana san francisco landing mess. As soon as they hadnt had the vertical component of the ILS, they couldnt handle a visual approach with perfect weather conditions. Insane when you think about it

[@exiletsj2570]

I was thinking about this well known incident, while flying the Fenix a320 earlier today. Good to see hear your take on it.

[@timothymarchant]

This is just like the air france flight from brazil

[@astaraoneill9166]

Excellent video (and it does my heart such good to hear your accent. )

[@dundundun4242]

This is incredible that the pilots couldn’t deal with the issues

[@sexynelson100]

This is a rather good channel.. so clear and concise.. so interesting and informative. Just subscribed.. Appreciate your good work.. Keep it up.. and Thanks.

[@GreenDotAviation]

Thank you! More vids on the way ✈️

[@XavierAway]

The weather can’t have been that good, if it was as clear as it was in the simulation I struggle to comprehend how someone could become a pilot and not realise the correct course of action is to push the nose toward the ground during a stall like the captain did. It seems so intuitive.

[@Many-names]

What would've it been like for the passengers? Would they have been able to recognize a feeling of extreme falling or were they just totally oblivious? I've never been in a plane before so I have no idea what the gravity feels like or whatever force it'd be.

[@katarina5169]

Yes, They would have fully felt the airplane falling. You feel a huge pressure on your head when the plane ascends Or Descends at NORMAL speeds, And A falling feeling you would If you Jumped from a far place. Not only that, They would also feel the plane being on Its side And Pointing straight down. I can’t even Imagine the thoughts of these people before the tragedy.. It Is awful.. All because the pilots weren’t communicating properly to each other Or Contacting Airline control..

[@mohammedisaa9952]

This is the world we live in now..... Where people like that are allowed to fly planes whos passengers pay a grand or more to die whilst 2 children start pulling fuses and fighting over some kiddie joystick....... its literally unbelievable the sheer lunacy that went on here...... It stops being funny when one realised that 384 people were completly terrorised and slammed into death then drowned...... yet after "advisorys" what had been done, and how many more need to die before someone puts the right amount of solder on a joint?...........

[@yuriobass]

There’s smth I haven’t heard from the Captain: “I have control” I’m afraid this is one of the absolutely key issues that led to this disaster…

[@markvine3814]

A common theme on Airbus aircraft. Mechanically independent sidesticks that allow the pilots to fight each for other control in an emergency situation. There is a fundamental problem with this design.

[@beyondEV]

Completely wrong. If they are connected you have a fight (like the Boeing 777 over paris and many other cases). In this case, the non startled pilot can simply keep the takeover button pressed and save the plane. if they don't fail to teach this. which seems to be one of the biggest problems, failure to properly train pilot.

[@scottscott5827]

"This flight has unresolved problems. Are you sure you want to continue?" (Press one) 1. YES - PRINT ME A BOARDING PASS 2. NOT SURE - SHOW ME THE LIST OF PROBLEMS 3. NO - MOVE ME TO ANOTHER FLIGHT

[@Josef123234345]

Exactly my thought! If I knew that a plane had ANY unresolved technical issues I would NEVER board it. It is scary to think on how many planes things are malfunctioning and nothing is done about it.

[@tabby7189]

The nose tends to drop in high bank angles so it's not surprising that the first officer pulled it up - but he overdid it. The captain really needed to tell the first officer to give up controls

[@billigerfusel]

Mind boggling how Airbus decided to suppress the dual input warning. Even my old Audi is able to cycle through multiple warnings automatically, but airbus decided it would be smarter to blare the same warning trough the speaker for several minutes. Crazy.

[@kevinmalone3210]

Airbus sucks. It's overly computerized.

[@greymark420]

Would have been sensible to contact his maintenance and determine what should be done with the repeated warnings and wether it was safe to carry on. Also why was there not a more thorough investigation by the airline instead of just resetting the software.

[@maxmartin2763]

The airline didn't want to investigate. They did NOT have approval to fly that route from the Indonesian Aviation authorities. AirAsia Indo made cash settlements with the deceased Indonesian citizen families before any investigation began. The 4 non Indo passenger families sued both the Indo authorities and PT AirAsia Indonesia for maximum cash.

[@blessedforever1424]

Same thing I said . I would’ve contacted them after the second alert . For the life of me I don’t understand why the captain did that reset mid air that just doesn’t even seem logical especially just to do because you saw it done while stationery. I absolutely hate flying for these exact reasons anything can go wrong at any moment it’s nothing you can do .

[@salamander5703]

When things start to go wrong, it's not bad idea to undo the last thing you did. Would resetting the circuit breaker have resolved the problem, albeit with regular cockpit warnings?

[@greasy23]

At 15:05; "What could have possessed him to pull the nose of the aircraft up into a climb??" Such an Irish statement here and immediately brought flashbacks to my mam asking me what possessed me to do something so stupid, after Id done something really stupid.

[@RyanZ225_PC]

Correction: That is not the master caution chime. When you get an amber caution (level 2), the aural alert is a single chime (SC). The sound you've used is the continuous repetitive chime (CRC) which is the aural alert for red warnings (level 3)

[@Hawker900XP]

Ineptness on so many levels.

[@MenwithPurpose2012]

Eerily similar to an Air France flight 447 from Rio to Paris which crashed into the Atlantic caused by dual input from the pilots. As on this case the second officer Bonin was pulling up on his stick and the more experienced first officer Robert did not give the call-out "My Controls" to let Bonin know he had taken over controls. Perhaps the passengers must have been aware that the plane was going down due to the Upset, which makes those last 40 seconds truly horrifying and gut wrenching terrifying. May God rest their souls in eternal peace.

[@carlospecanha1826]

Air France 447 crashed because the pilots trusted in computers of flight the Air Asia 8501 the Pilots dont trusted

[@MM-dm4xj]

Not true. Robert said give me the controls and Bonin obliged. Only to have his hand on the sidestick again seconds after to cancel out Roberts actions.

[@bjornleonhenry9750]

Great video, as always. Greetings from BKK

[@RubenKelevra]

Pull down is perfectly understandable, if you don't think of the flight input controls. You pull the virtual horizon "down" with your input - as well as the nose of the aircraft. So the terminology may be just different in the military training he received, where flying on instruments is even more common than in other branches of aviation.

[@juliemanarin4127]

I love these videos...great job!

[@BestIkeaTable]

-8000 fpm? that's like an average Ryan air landing lol 💀

[@bobbygetsbanned6049]

It's crashes like this that scare me the most. I just don't understand how so many of these accidents stem from commercial airline pilots seemingly not understanding that aircraft need LIFT to fly! Stuff can always break on a plane, but a lot of it can be managed with skilled pilots. It's way scarier to me that a pilot can make it all the way to a commercial airline without being extremely knowledgeable on how an aircraft actually flies!

[@himssendol6512]

Not much is known about this crash here in Korea. Only that the three killed are a family, a couple and infant child.