GREENE, BREECH LOADING, BOLT ACTION RIFLE of 1857

Making ammo for and shooting a .54 Caliber GREENE , BREECH LOADING, BOLT ACTION RIFLE of 1857

[@49walker44]

I'm surprised that complex design saw the light of day. Has to be a rare gun and I can see why it's in such great condition. I love it. Very interesting gas sealing method and clever action despite the complexity. Thanks.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hello 49, It was a very radical design for its day. The locking lugs were very advanced ! The gas seal really works also. I love it too.......Doc

[@robertrobert7924]

I am also surprised that the stodgy US Army Dept. would even consider this amazing new design, even on an experimental basis.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

@@robertrobert7924 Perhaps they were more concerned that the Russians would have 3000 of the latest technology ??? I think Ulysses S. Grant said it best.....The only government that you can trust is the .50-70 Government !

[@bunkstagner298]

Doctor you shoot the most interesting rifles but this one takes the cake. But in beautiful condition

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hi Bunk, The designer of this arm was a real original thinker ! Thanks for commenting......Doc

[@justhavingfun675]

What an interesting rifle/action. It solves many of the problems with modern investigations into case-less cartridges. I like how the next bullet provides the seal for the previous cartridge.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

There is so much going on with this gun you don't know where to start ! This fellow was really thinking outside the box, which is always a problem getting it accepted. The bullet-wad gas seal really works, I did not see or feel any gas leaking. The oval bore and the locking lugs.....all great ideas also. Regards...Doc

[@Dimwit_the_last_mountainman]

Doc, you have outdone yourself! You have entered a new level of recreating absolete ammo. What an amazing gun! Such a clever design. Thanks for sharing!

[@dr.durellshepard398]

God morgen John, fra koloniene. Jeg er glad for at du kunne bli med på eventyret. Jeg har sett på denne pistolen i årevis og fikk endelig motet til å prøve å jobbe opp en belastning for den. Det er mange forskjellige og innovative funksjoner på denne armen. Veldig interessant. Håper sommeren din blir bra. Beste hilsener. Doktor

[@Dimwit_the_last_mountainman]

@@dr.durellshepard398 Takk for det, Doktor! Håper du også har en bra sommer.

[@garyruxton5226]

Wow! Accurate. "Honey, I'm going to go use the Greene to split some cordwood."

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hello Gary and welcome aboard ! Have you seen the price of gas lately? Too expensive to use the log-splitter ! So I loaded up some charges for the GREENE. I think the extra wads are doing several things here, sealing the gas, cleaning the bore, and helping the bullet spin in the oval bore. Just my guess, but she was accurate. Regards.....Doc

[@feraltweed]

I guess I’m not the only one. Once I had it figured out it’s pretty cool. Nice way to solve a unique problem. I may have to make one for myself

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hello Sir and thank you for commenting. She is a little convoluted, that's for sure.......Doc

[@steveinthethumb6441]

You sure present some interesting blackpowder ignition systems. This rifle is of no exception and one I have never seen before. Have a good day Doc.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hi Steve, after they discovered the percussion cap they weren't sure what to do with it, so you see all these different systems. Makes it very interesting for us collectors !....Doc

[@steveinthethumb6441]

I don’t remember if you suggested this to me or someone else on turning my Whitney Rolling Block into an in-line percussion ignition muzzleloader. The barrel rifling has been shot out. I was thinking about doing this. If I can’t find a mainspring & trigger spring; I’ll have to make them, as one is in parts & the other missing. It would be a challenging project for me. Keep posting your videos. History and old firearms; two of my favorite topics. Have a good weekend Doc.

[@daveclemons1225]

Another Great video! Loved the part where you just had some wire in your toolbox! Hilarious!! Talk about a firearm design that was truley ahead of its time...1857! Thank you for making this video!

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hi Dave, glad you enjoyed the subtle humor. I've been looking at this gun in the vault for years and just recently got up the courage to research the ammo build. I'm glad I did as it has such a rich history. Such innovation. Regards...Doc

[@daveclemons1225]

@@dr.durellshepard398The amount of work you put in is amazing!

[@dr.durellshepard398]

@@daveclemons1225 Thanks so much.

[@arikaur24]

wow you are really awesome doc I been looking of a detailed look at the Greene rifle for a very long time really nice to see how it works All we need now is for you and Ian Mccallum of Forgotten Weapons to a collaboration that would be really nice because this gun needs to be more well know.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hello Ari, Glad you could join me for the shoot. Such innovation and at such an early date. Ian has a wonderful channel with a comprehensive knowledge of arms from all over the world. Thanks for the comment.....Doc

[@oldscoutgp]

Very cool Doc. I would guess the Greene didn't have to worry about many patent infringements. I like your Savage revolver. Thanks for the shooting session.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Glad you caught the show. I was sure you would comment on the bailing wire being a genuine Harley-Davidson part ! ................Doc

[@oldscoutgp]

@@dr.durellshepard398 At first, I was confused why your bailing wire was under lock and key. Then I noticed the HD logo on that part and realized it would cost 10 times what it was worth so marked. A confusing ammo build, well explained and illustrated. Your efforts are much appreciated.

[@chrischiampo7647]

Wow That Rifle Is a Work of Art For The Times Thanks Again Doc Excellent Video 😀😊

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hi Chris, a lot of forward thinking went into the design of this gun. The oval bore was very accurate also. ......Doc

[@MrFirmbottom]

At first I was skeptical, but I see the sly brilliance of this design. Too bad it didn't get more attention. I will say that if the second bullet is used to seal the chamber, I can imagine the first shot is likely to be the most accurate.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hello Sir, I suspect you may be correct as there may be some deformation or residue to effect accuracy of the second shot. Regards....Doc

[@matthewbilly3252]

Wow, that was great seeing that rifle fire. That is a really something in making the paper cartridges for this rifle. Does the wad in back of the bullet help any in keeping the bore clean after firing the round ?

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Good morning Matthew, It was a lot of measuring, figuring, and conjecture, but a lot of fun also. I think your exactly correct about the bore cleaning, something like the old civil war bore cleaner bullets. Those wads would be compressed by the gas pressure and fit the oval bore nicely. Thanks so much for your commenting.....Doc

[@49walker44]

I've been learning about the stone work in the Serapeum of Saggara in Egypt and now pay more attention to stone work in general like that around your place, beautiful. Is that a trade you have explored?

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Yes, the Egyptians did amazing stone work ! I'm in awe of it all. Thanks for noticing my stone work. I designed and built every thing you see there. Started 55 years ago, I can't believe it. It was my Great grand fathers wood lot, so I was always collecting stones and dragging them home. Stone work is very slow work but also very therapeutic. Regards....Doc

[@49walker44]

@@dr.durellshepard398 impressive and amazing, you have to be proud. When you get a chance look up the Serapeum, one of the inexplicable mysteries of precision achieved with tools unaccounted-for in the historical record, 5/32 inside radius corners, surface variation over 10+ ft measured in thousands, truly interesting work. I ordered a book by manufacturing engineer Chris Dunn who studied first hand the work and tried to define the processes necessary to achieve the results. I'll try to get in touch.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

@@49walker44 I knew it was precision work, perfect right angles etc, but that is truly amazing.

[@markworden9169]

That's a bizarre concept, using powder ahead of the bullet to shoot the bullet from the one before, so their are 2 bullets in there.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hi Mark, It is different. I really had to stop and think about the process every time I loaded it so I wouldn't mess it up. ...Doc

[@dmanx500]

Oh god, I was confused until I understood I cant tell if I hate it or love

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hello David, It is confusing. I kept looking for the hammer on top of the gun. Regards....doc

[@christopherwarters8271]

Wow I’d never thought you had one of these nice gun. I’m curious do you own any revolvers or old pistols I’m a big colt dragoon and Remington 1858 fan.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hi Chris, Strange as it seams, I only have a couple handguns. I really like the fancy wood on the long guns. The big Dragoons are very impressive ! Regards....Doc

[@robertrobert7924]

Doc, was the first commercial nitrated paper you showed slow burning cigarette paper? Cigarette paper is nitrated to burn at the same slow speed as the cigarette tobacco for obvious reasons. That is why it leaves too much chared paper in the cylinder chambers of revolvers so they can not be safely reoaded unless the chambers are comletely cleaned out.

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hello Robert, That was supposed to be for cartridges but was too thick, too dense, and not enough nitrates. Very poor performance. Thanks for the insight on the cigarette paper, ......logically explained. Regards...Doc

[@kevinlutz2249]

Hi I found your clip to be very informative could you please send me the specs on making the cartridge for the Greene Rifle I have one and would like to make some ammunition for it

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hi Kevin, for liability reasons and You-tube restrictions I can't recommend any load data. That being said, what others have done is to use nitrated coffee filter for the paper tubes. 2.1" long, rolled up on a .530" dowel , Rush Creek bullet 533-476, SPG lube, 40 grains of FFG, ends of paper tubes closed with tea bag paper , or hair curler paper. The original ammo, have used felt wads at the base of the bullet also, see video at 2:28 and the patent at 2:36 ....Best of luck with your gun.

[@antonandreyevichstepanov4131]

I wonder if overly expanding bullet problem from russian trials could be solved with use of terry carbine cartridges. Basically same cartridge but without a second bullet. Would wads alone be enough to stop escaping gases ?

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hello Sir, That would be a good experiment to try. As you see on the chart at 1:15 they tried many different options back in the day. Perhaps simply a bullet alloy change ?

[@antonandreyevichstepanov4131]

@@dr.durellshepard398 Considering that russians still decided to keep their needle fire "Karle" rifle, even though it had 1mm leather pad in the bolt to keep all gasses (like chassepot but worse). I think several thick wads would do the job.

[@Vincent-S]

Ohhhh You load the bullet first into the chamber with the plunger before putting the cartridge in. Wouldn't that mean shooting something like a blank first before putting a second cartridge in to fire the bullet of the first? Spent an embarrassing amount of time being confused even while you were showing the loading process Neat rifle! If a bit too smart for dumb folks like me lol

[@dr.durellshepard398]

Hello Vincent, Sorry for any confusion, but it is very unconventional. For your first shot you push just a bullet up to the front of the chamber with the plunger. Than put a backwards cartridge into the chamber behind it using just the bolt face. For your second ( and 3rd, 4th, etc) shot a bullet was left at the boltface, so push it forward with the plunger before opening the chamber. When you get the hang of it , it goes pretty fast. Regards.....Doc

[@Vincent-S]

@@dr.durellshepard398 Haha no worries, the confusion was entirely on me for not realizing during the loading portion that the rifle was basically a militarized version of target rifles that are loaded the same way, only with a separate tool for seating the bullet, according to one video I saw a couple years ago. I forgot what those types of rifles were called though. Edit: found the video, it's under "1880 Remington Hepburn Match rifle" as a breech seating rifle, I can imagine such rifles existing in the late 1850's-1860's with breech loading percussion rifles

[@dr.durellshepard398]

@@Vincent-S Yes Sir, they would press the bullet up in front with a "breech-seating-tool" then load the primed case full of black powder, which gave the maximum charge possible.