Greenhouse update (Nov). Insulation, geothermal heating and cooling, and more

[@losaltguy]

Admire your journey. "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step". Been watching the progress of walapini concept for years now and it is accelerating rapidly thanks to those willing to share their efforts. Thank you.

[@benmarxxshow]

I'm really happy to see this video! I'm about to move back to Indiana from California, and plan to stop in Alliance to see Russ's Greenhouse in the Snow in person. I can't afford to build one at this time, but I love living vicariously through people like you who are doing it! Thanks for posting!

[@zakbrinkhoff324]

Build one with scrap windows

[@investwave7262]

I have some experience growing indoors and what I would recommend is smoothing this surface inside and painting white or even better, adding mylar foil. This will reflect the sunshine better so your plants will be getting more light.

[@The_Endo]

'some experience' lol... my guy 😏

[@michaellegault2923]

Thank you for putting your location!! Majority of these videos don’t say where for reference based on their climate!

[@brianlavoie3867]

Good to see this, we will be building one next year, using hempcrete on the north, east and west walls. We are off the grid and looking at Snap fan for direct solar connection on ventilation, but have not figure out the blower fans as they use so much more power. Hoping the hempcrete will be part of this solution as it acts as a thermal battery to help keep it cool and warm. Cheers!

[@SimpleTek]

great video and nice greenhouse! thank you for posting!!!!!!

[@jimmerrithew453]

You mentioned you will put chicken wire over the box for the geothermal pipes. You should use 1/4.inch wire mesh to keep mice and other critters out of the pipes.

[@Mr_badjoke]

Nice! I worked in HVAC for years that's a great blower there.. it'll do alright 🤙

[@SchoolforHackers]

Keen observers taking notes thank you

[@natethegreat0100]

Very cool! Thank you so much for taking time to make this video! I am very highly considering putting in this greenhouse next summer!

[@danielmcgrane5698]

Very nice job! Love the Greenhouse in the snow videos and what he has done with his greenhouse, cool to see others following and incorporating their own ideas. If I ever get out of the suburbs and buy a few acres, I would love to do something similar. Thanks for sharing.

[@SimpleTek]

Fantastic build! I’d be scared of flooding where I live though.

[@nicholasbecker3559]

Great video. Very awesome sunken green house. Good job

[@theutahgreenhouselearnstofpv]

A lot of great ideas to design from. I have a setup that’s works well in winter also

[@MrInnovativeEnergy]

Awesome! No heating needed? grows all winter in neg 20F temps?

[@ryeken6115]

Very cool guys? We have been looking at the kits. Nice to see you guys pioneering the way. Looking pro :)

[@erroleabrown4317]

Wow that’s looking real good, it has plenty of room and great insulation, it’s real cool

[@WhatWeDoChannel]

Very interesting! I’m all excited about geothermal greenhouses, cool in the summer and heat in the winter, ripe subtropical fruit in a cold climate, what’s not to love! Klaus

[@harrymills2770]

I still wonder if the mass actually works on that oranges-in-the-snow idea. But the old man insists you get ground-temperature-average out of those hoses if they're at least as long as that magic 230 feet and buried 8 or 9 feet. I'm just not sure I'd do in summer what they do in summer. I think summer mode for my greenhouse would be mostly idle, and I'd grow beans and such on trellises outside, and keep most/all of the sun off it. I'm debating whether to move the citrus inside and outside, seasonally. But I can see keeping that space cool in summer with shade more than with big blowers. I know nothing about the root system of such trees, but I'd definitely look into moving them outside in the summer, or only letting the sun in where I had my indoor grove, and shade the rest of it. To me, the purpose of the greenhouse is to grow things in the cold. And just about everywhere that guy had aluminum siding, I'd have earth, I think.

[@jamesalanstephensmith7930]

Looks great! There are also cold hardy citrus Yusuf, cumquat, etc

[@felipefigueroa9449]

Excellent Bill outstanding

[@AngryPeasants]

its awesome looking, good job!

[@nicholasbecker3559]

Very nice a little complicated but complicated good when you're gardening if you know what you doing huh but yeah I like it looks like you're doing a great job I'm making one myself a lot smaller but same principles

[@BountifulHarvestAbby]

This is amazing I wish I had a geogreenhouse!

[@66bigbuds]

Good use of thermal mass.

[@GreatBoneStructure]

Would love to see an overview site-map to see how you planned out the dig to place the geothermal pipes. Share your work?

[@trailbreakfarms]

I'll try to put something together to show this.

[@l0I0I0I0]

@@trailbreakfarms I'm looking at starting a greenhouse farm in Arkansas. I would love to email or call you about pros, cons, new tech?

[@coolwater5551]

Exciting to see another utahn doing this!

[@harvestfarms]

thought about doing one of these here in kentucky but we just get too much rain to have an underground anything. You dig a hole here and you have an instant pond.

[@carvingthecottonwood]

Love it! Exactly what I'm hoping to build. Thanks for sharing!

[@homesteadaquarius]

Awesome greenhouse you have going there!

[@allenwilson2395]

Nice. Thank you for the tour.

[@vivalaleta]

Great design but does it have to be entirely plastic??

[@Pabkojdim]

Looks awesome

[@neildalesongs6503]

I'd love to see how your greenhouse is operating now! I have a prediction that you will be able to answer by now, which is that the water table may keep the temperature in you geothermal pipes at a constant temp in the 50's, rather than build up a "heat battery" over the course of a few years, as it seems to do in Russ's greenhouse. That might keep the greenhouse a bit cooler in the winter than you expected. I'd also like to know what kind of soil, and at what height you planted those fruit trees. I hope they are doing well!

[@tanner3801]

My greenhouse in northwestern Utah County has about a 3 ft deep hole in it, and it filled with about 2 feet of water late last winter (circa feb 2023), with all the snow and rain we had. Mine won't always have this hole and the floor is at ground level, but I imagine by now you might have added a sump pump to keep the water seapage under control...

[@trailbreakfarms]

last Winter was very unusual. I didn't have any problems but we were very wet with the Spring melting and moisture that never ended. Sump would be a good idea if the problem persists.

[@RickMarshallMaps]

Thanks for the update

[@SashaXXY]

Very cool! Thank you for sharing! Subbed!

[@homermtz]

I saw that Greenhouse in the Snow video and I also want one, but im located in South Texas i use shade cloth lol

[@TT3TT3]

Very nice🎉

[@leegreenwald147]

Awesome. I have watched all your videos. I have a question where is the end of the cooling tube loop in the vacuum room go. Ed greenwald

[@trailbreakfarms]

The tubes that come out in the vacuum room stay underground for about 60 feet and come out of the ground outside.

[@toaluasaleupolu7060]

Nice one 👍

[@pascalballing_atmos]

good job mate

[@paulschimel3572]

Looks amazing! I was watching the old guys video. He has a tube up top to gather heat and moves under the greenhouse for a thermal bank. I don’t see this in your design.

[@azibatiari4858]

This is fantastic even if Its out of my budget. Would you please share how much the greenhouse and insulation cost?

[@peterstuart133]

Love it but i hang mylar on the back angled wall to increase the natural light in the winter

[@jimh4167]

A high gloss white paint could help bounce the light down

[@NickolasHinderer]

Awesome ❤

[@chakdaks]

Amazing and neat work. I see that you have two blowers, one to pull in fresh air and the other to circulate the inside air through the geo pipes. What is the power rating, CFM and brand of these blowers?

[@rhettholyoak7990]

I am in Springville, could I come by and see this?

[@waynechien-vovietchongmy9724]

Thoughts on greenhouse front be south facing....though the sides east n west...

[@briandittbrenner2432]

That awesome which direction is the building the best?

[@trailbreakfarms]

the windows are facing South for sun exposure.

[@JoeyMcSmokey]

Are you going to farm fish to utilize the nutrients? If yes, you can run the air lines into the ground to help keep the temp regulated on the large tank. Just a thought.

[@davidmckay9558]

So you have poly on the "North" wall and you have metal in the "East, West, and North wall"?... Cool. Tx

[@tonypointer7026]

Was a unit like this cost. Nice stuff

[@trailbreakfarms]

Greenhouse in the Snow says you should be able to do it for $25K. I have a lot going on so I spent more.

[@MrRerod]

So you have two geothermal earth tube systems? One that pulls air through your yard for fresh air. From where? And how does it drain condensate? Then a second system that recirculates the air. Where does it drain condensate? As you can tell from the graph on your video, most people come here to learn about your earth tubes and it would be nice to know more..

[@shannonchristensen8931]

Love citrus in the snow greenhouses. You are close to us here in Moroni. Do you allow visitors?

[@fezwhy]

Very cool! I haven't seen very many people post videos of their kits built. Russ truly has developed quite the system. It's on my list to go take a tour and see it in person. What will you be growing in this space? Do you have any kind of backup in case the electricity shuts off? That's my biggest worry. It gets to -35 here for weeks at a time. Having the power go out in winter could potentially kill all the plants. I would be curious what your electricity costs run with the greenhouse in full swing. Thanks for posting

[@trailbreakfarms]

Growing area is 17 x 72. My plan is Vines on the North Wall Grow beds on north and south. Trees and shrubs and ground cover in the main area. Mostly tropical fruit. Regarding back up, I am going to put a solar unit up next year but our power has been uninterrupted. I have thought about putting in a back up heater that runs off a propane tank in case of outage. Right now I'm using geothermal and a back up electric heater to keep it at 50 and above during winter. My next video will show how I heat and cool the GH during winter.

[@vidalott]

Looks good. Instead of covering the berms with siding you could run three rows of horizontal shelving, at an angle, to grow your favorite table vegetables. It may increase the temperature slightly. So, if you are having excess heat issues, then maybe not. However, in my opinion the benefits of an increased rhizosphereic profile are worth it. Maybe through in some mushrooms? The pond is really interesting. Never heard of such a thing. You kinda made yourself a spring. What are the rough dimensions/area?

[@THEAMISHCYBORG]

Damn man you sound just like Mr Grow It!

[@myaudaciousprayer]

Did you say this was a kit, and do you have the plans? I want to put a geothermal greenhouse In my yard.

[@sandrajohnson9926]

Greenhouse in the Snow out of Nebraska. He says it at the very beginning.

[@barnyardbrio7597]

way cool!

[@edmonddebourbon8543]

Wonder if you thought of aircreate for foundation and even the ceiling- back wall as it has a R-6 per inch ?

[@trailbreakfarms]

I am not familiar with aircrete. I'll look into it.

[@jimh4167]

Sounds like a good idea to look into

[@debbiegonzales8035]

Is the frosted plexiglass, or whatever the above material is, does it allow enough sunlight for the plants? Also, in Nebraska, do you need a well permit, from the state for the geothermal well?

[@PennsylvaniaPrepper]

Is there any way to make these wider without losing the benefits of the geothermal and insulating benefits of the ground?

[@trailbreakfarms]

yes I think you could. I think as long as you were below ground, circulating air, and had the appropriate amount of tubes/circulation you could do it.

[@lynnmoss2127]

we have a high water table here too, maybe even higher than 7'. My concern is water eventually seeping into the air tubes and creating mold, and thus creating an unhealthy air quality, for humans, in the greenhouse. I suppose the alternative would be the different geothermal style using fluid-filled tubes. What do you think?

[@trailbreakfarms]

interesting idea. I'm not familiar with fluid filled tubes.

[@thepowerfulpractice]

Do you guys get bears? I'm at 7800ft in Colorado and pondering what I can build that works but keeps them out

[@maienduo]

Any update video during snow months.

[@rumpleshiznit]

Epic. 👍

[@HomesteadAtLast]

I’m curious to hear more about how that water issue is going

[@trailbreakfarms]

Water has stayed atleast a few feet below the Greenhouse. We ended up picking up a lot of water in the trench where we placed the geothermal so we put in a new trench heading downhill from the pipe trench and that has picked up a lot of water and places it in a pond where it can slowly percolate into the ground from below. Cool pond. It doesn't freeze during winter because it has a constant inflow of new water.

[@TheRoon4660]

I would love to know what the noise level is when the fans blow. I saw a video of the original Greenhouse in the snow and am very impressed with the system. I would love to live in a Greenhouse that could maintain a fairly constant temperature.

[@trailbreakfarms]

You can't hear anything from outside. When inside, the Winter fan is quiet but the Summer fans are a little noisy. The blower for geothermal is not very loud either.

[@diananeuenschwander5560]

What DREAM greenhouse to have. Will you ever consider solar?

[@trailbreakfarms]

yes this Greenhouse has Solar

[@themaximusone]

There has to be a better way than how it is being done?

[@chinbatbattumur2622]

nice design! I have watched an old man's similar passive greenhouse design, which uses geothermal heating and cooling. is there any online guidebooks on how to install and use the geothermal heating and cooling system in relation to the greenhouse? thanks

[@trailbreakfarms]

I found KZbin to be the most helpful. There are a lot of helpful resources here. This is why I started making these videos. I've found a lot of helpful feedback.

[@harrymills2770]

Search "Oranges in the snow" and you'll be taken straight to the guy who's carrying the flag.

[@timloney2251]

Very nice build! Just curious if the wood post / metal knee walls inside would be better in concrete? I don’t know much about this type of green house construction so I have a lot of questions. Lol

[@trailbreakfarms]

Definitely better in concrete. I have a really hard clay soil here that holds up really well. If it was sandy, I'd need a whole lotta concrete.

[@timloney2251]

@@trailbreakfarms Yeah we have a lot of clay a foot or two down below the top soil as well. Thank you for replying!

[@lucidstates6787]

The airflow pipes aren't water tight so it will be inter to see if the water level rises enough to block them. I wasn't sure exactly where the corrugated pipes were placed or at what level

[@jimh4167]

I'm thinking in my build I'll lay the 4 inch pipes on a slope so they can drain to as many buried 55 gallon plastic barrels as needed to be 4 ish feet below the lowest pipes so any water can be pumped out

[@rb2712]

I think I would have concsidered substansual ridge vents that could be opereated in the summer instead of relying only on powered ventilation

[@floricel9898]

Hi there. i have a question, hope that u have the answer :) - which is the correct side of the policarbonat to put outside (external)? i bought a board but i don't have the info. Have a great day!

[@trailbreakfarms]

I don't remember if there is a side up or not. I would ask whomever you purchase from. Sorry I'm not much help here.

[@floricel9898]

@@trailbreakfarms i got it, it has a label from the one side, that has be put on the exterior (sun)

[@trailbreakfarms]

@@floricel9898 OK now I remember seeing that

[@philandhannahslittlefarm1464]

How have the sheets held up to the snow? Seems like they would buckle in...

[@trailbreakfarms]

Does surprisingly well in the snow. Snow slides off in a hurry.

[@dfrancopaintingandwallpaper]

Good morning! My wife and I are looking at greenhouses.. we see this type and another that uses water batteries for heat temp control. Did you look into that type as well? If so- why this type??

[@trailbreakfarms]

we use geothermal and fans for heat control.

[@GARDENandCOUNTRYHOUSE]

We have been in the countryside for three years. Now we will be moving to an even farther, wilder place. But on our channel we show history from the very beginning - we invite you if you want to see the countryside in Poland.

[@markhull7430]

Thanks for the great advice. I am considering this setup for our 80 acres in humbolt county ca. Did you consider a cold sink below your growing plain?..say 4 feet lower where you can stand and have access to plants.

[@trailbreakfarms]

This GH gives me plenty of access to the plants as is. Cold Sink is an interesting idea in that it gives colder air somewhere to go away from the plants but with this GH I've managed to grow during winter without a problem.

[@NFT2]

Turning out nice. Hopefully in Utah the angle of the sun isn't such that there's still good light in the winter below the berm.

[@trailbreakfarms]

The Berm is on our north side. We did build the GH into the slope (runs East to West) but not enough slope to affect sun light. We peeled it away on South side.

[@williehoward556]

i dig it.

[@keithshoemaker6034]

Why did you choose not to build the back side into a hill using the earth to insulate backside? Or northside of the house.

[@trailbreakfarms]

My Property rises slightly from West to East. Definitely would be best if you had South facing so you could build into the hill. Also would be best to build on South side of a structure so you can exchange hot/cold air between structure and Greenhouse. The South side of our shop is in the shade for a good part of the day.

[@ShinyThings-bl3fx]

What's the spacing between your metal frame bits

[@ShinyThings-bl3fx]

I'm so copying this idea

[@trailbreakfarms]

6 foot spacing

[@kkostelnik1]

are there any concerns regarding the toxicity of the spray foam? especially with humidity

[@trailbreakfarms]

its a concern we had when we decided to do it. We researched it and found that others had applied paint over the foam which is what we decided to do. We haven't had any noticeable toxicity since we built the GH 5 plus years ago.

[@unconventionalme8048]

First off, thank you for the videos! I was wondering the dimensions of your greenhouse. Including the entrance portion...

[@trailbreakfarms]

The dimensions of the greenhouse are 17 wide by 72 long. The entry room is 12 feet long which makes the main growing room 60 feet long.

[@gg-gn3re]

@@trailbreakfarms Good luck with your avocado chances man! 5-15 years to produce fruit and 50/50 chance for the plant to even produce, those odds suck! lol

[@SarahSmith-hd8kd]

@@gg-gn3re your attitude sucks... lol😏

[@michaela723]

So is the 230 feet all pipe together or each pipe runs 230 feet ...??

[@zayvier69]

How come the insulation doesn’t get moldy with the heat and moisture in a greenhouse?

[@trailbreakfarms]

I put a paint coat over it. its held up well

[@zayvier69]

How does the small room inside the front room make a vacuum?

[@trailbreakfarms]

because its a separate space from the main growing room, I pull air from the small room (which pulls from the tubes that lead to the outside) when the fans or blower are running. maybe a vacuum is the wrong word choice.

[@drdisco5827]

No black thermal mass on insulated wall?

[@trailbreakfarms]

Most of the Greenhouse is below Grade. All walls are insulated. I thought about Black but ultimately decided not to do it. This Greenhouse does great without it. Also worried about picking up any additional heat during Summer, which is a larger challenge than Winter.

[@drdisco5827]

@@trailbreakfarms people design roof such that black wall in the back only sees Sun at Winter angles

[@brendadeatherage4543]

What kind of insulation spray?

[@robertwest9105]

wow! 2 north walls, does that come with the kit?

[@trailbreakfarms]

Interior walls don't come with the kit. Purchased aluminum siding and lumber separately.

[@liquidgold2735]

@@trailbreakfarms I still don't think he realizes he said he's got 2 north walls. Most times you have 1 north and 1 south... I am assuming you don't have siding on your south wall and that's where your actual polycarbonate is...

[@liquidgold2735]

yep... 2 north walls, and he still didn't notice.

[@trailbreakfarms]

@@liquidgold2735 I mis-spoke in the video. The twin wall (or bi-wall) polycarbonate sheets are on the South wall, not the North wall. My mistake.

[@liquidgold2735]

@@trailbreakfarms I gathered that. It's an awesome setup and I watched a few more videos. The passion fruit you grew, what variety was it? Edulis or incarnata?

[@zaidbintareq]

Would love to see your pipes layout in your yard i am a bit confused about the pipes in west , in the vaccum room .and about the exhaust outside what's its purpose and how is it connected?

[@trailbreakfarms]

I'll do a video showing pipes

[@francespuhr9759]

Did you use 2 layers of plastic and have a blower blowing air in between them?

[@trailbreakfarms]

no. the blower I use pushes air thru the geothermal tubes.

[@gdorfxoxo9657]

badass

[@Taking_Back_Thyme]

How long is the greenhouse? Do you need permits?

[@trailbreakfarms]

in Utah I needed a permit because I have electrical in the GH. 72 feet long.

[@FlorentHenry]

Did you have to drain the terrain around the greenhouse to avoid water infiltration during heavy rainfalls or snow melting periods?

[@trailbreakfarms]

No I've got it so the water drains away from the GH

[@flailhammer5174]

can i have a link for the kit? alliance nebraska?

[@larrypnh]

I would test for radon gas?

[@DannyCreech]

That is an AMAZING greenhouse. I love it. BUT.... With having to have big machines do the dig out, the purchase of the green house kit, all the electrical, fan, air Iping, spray foam, and everything else that went into the construction and then what will be needed to run it and maintain it yearly... you have about $50,000 into that build!! How much produce (only as that is all you can grow in a green house) can one buy from a store for $50,000? How many years of produce will $50,000 get you? I get the whole "self sufficient" thing. Heck, I wou.d love to have this green house myself. But $50K just to grow produce? Per year I bet I spend maybe $1,000 on just produce I could grow in a green house. That means if just kept that $50K instead of building this amazing green house, then I could buy produce for 50 years!! In 50 years that green house would be falling apart. In 10 years those plastic panels will dry rot. In the next 10 years half of those electric fan motors will stop working because of the dusty and most environment. Again, Amazing green house and I love it, but I can see how much money you have in there and it is just not worth it. A homestead green house should not cost more than $2,000 to build. More than that and a person is just being silly with their money.

[@trailbreakfarms]

Very good comment. Here's my thought... I'm into this $35K. My goal here isn't a financial return, but to get educated on Greenhouses, Solar, Aquaponics, Geothermal, Growing year 'round, Self sufficient, sustainable farming, etc. Also, I want to pick my own tropical fruit, not buy them at a store where they have travelled thousands of miles. And, most important...I want to live longer, healthier, happier. If I do this, it's a priceless venture. I didn't do this for a return on investment. I've done that elsewhere. But, if I did, I'm confident I could get a return on this Puppy!. I've had a Restaurant Owner tell me they'd buy everything I could produce. I could take excess produce the the local Farmers Market. I could eat everything else. I've had requests for tours, classes, consulting, even requests to build for others. I could monetize KZbin. Literally the sky is the limit. But none of that interests me. I am enjoying this Journey. I'm happier, healthier, and lounging on a chair eating a fig listening to my favorite tunes watching the fish swim.

[@mattlund6391]

@@trailbreakfarms You say you're in it by about 35k so far. Does this include the cost of excavation? We are looking at building one of these kits but are unsure of the cost. Would you assume there would be a higher return on heat savings if thicker insulation was added? Thanks for the video; it did help answer many questions, as well as reading others' comments.

[@vutEwa]

what was the cost to build including earth works?

[@trailbreakfarms]

Greenhouse in the Snow says you can build one of these for $25K.

[@vutEwa]

@@trailbreakfarms i know that. But what was your cost?

[@trailbreakfarms]

@@vutEwa I'm about 35K into this including aquaponics, solar and added vents and fans.

[@vutEwa]

@@trailbreakfarms that's what I thought. That 25k target is unrealistic

[@theeastman9136]

What is the insulating material you used? I hope it's not polyurethane or some other plastic. 🤔

[@lacyg7741]

I just had my greenhouse destroyed by 80mph winds. Do you think this type can withstand high winds? Is it anchored? Thank you. Love your videos!

[@trailbreakfarms]

yes I do. The Greenhouse sits below ground and we backfill dirt up to the bottom of the South Window as well as up the north wall. 2x2 metal tubing goes into the ground about 2 feet. Sits in concrete. I think it would do very well. We've had some pretty good wind gusts here and it is solid. Sorry to hear about your Gh being destroyed. The good news is you can take everything you learned and put it into Greenhouse 2.0!

[@lacyg7741]

@@trailbreakfarms Definitely. I have already talked with the greenhouse in the snow company. I am thinking of doing it! I am happy your videos are out on the web. I wish I could find more people with these greenhouses to get more ideas. It is so much digging!